@@JoshuaBlais Do you have somewhere an image (screenshot or the like) of the layers you're currently using (besides Colemak, of course)? I did see the GH repository, but it's simpler to actually see the layout on an image. Maybe I could use some of your ideas in my very first split keyboard (I just bought a ZSA Voyager).
@@benjaminsgs5799 The more aggressive row stagger, as well as the look really! Other than that they offer the same features - I am even using a corne layout editor for the chocofi.
I actually ran a 36 key layout emulated on my laptops built in keyboard with kmonad for over 6 months while I slowly worked on my actual split 36 key board. It’s really excellent software, and let me make sure I was interested in the concept before I committed to the hardware. 8/8 highly recommend. Once I had my finished hardware, there was no learning curve as I had been using the layout for months
I also now run a kmonad setup on my laptop, just went backward from the layout to the laptop haha! I love using home row mods and a number layer on a laptop, it's game changing.
@@AX-fx7ng definitely! The kmonad git repo had plenty for me to get started with it, if you’re keen on a 36 key layout, take a look at Miryoku, there’s a pre-configured kmonad config for it, and it was the perfect starting point for me. These days my layout is pretty customized and resembles miryoku only in the core design fundamentals, but my actual layout is almost entirely different
I feel that it is a simple layout but gets really everything done that I need it to do! I never really understood the 6+ layer layouts, feels excessive to me
I bought a Corne (which is similar) during the covid lockdowns but I never really found the patience to finish the build, soldering the diodes felt so tedious, so I forgot about it. You video made me remember and I have now a project for a rainy day again, thanx for that! 👍I had a similar experience from a 122 key IBM Battleship keyboard with buckling springs to now a Planck with 47 keys. I'm still not sure about low profile, I love heavy tactile and clicky switches and high SA or MT3 keycaps (and their full sound and feel).
I wasn't sure about the low profile ether, but I think its very comfortable compromise so that the board is as portable as possible. Make a vid showcasing your corne! Did you do 42 or 36 keys?
SMD diodes are pretty easy to solder once you get the hang of it. Add a tiny bit of solder to one of the pads first, then bring the diode in place, position it and pull the soldering iron out. That's it. Add a little more solder if you think there's not enough, then solder the other side, that's it. Make sure the PCB is clean, using flux and non-crap solder helps a lot too.
I just bought a ZSA Voyager and it is a fantastic keyboard. It's also very slim and minimal, but is a 52 key keyboard. When I got it I wondered if it was going to be hard to use and would have too few keys. Having used it for about a month, I can definitely see how a keyboard like this (the one you showed) can be used. I have a symbols/numbers layer like you do and I pretty much always use that instead of reaching for the numbers row on the main layer. I also just started learning Colemak DH as well. I'm up to about 20wpm. Still slow, but getting there. One thing I don't like about other keyboards like the one you showed is how far tucked in the thumb keys are under the rest of the board. I like to open my hands up a bit while I'm using the keyboard. So I'm not sure how comfortable it would be for me to use one. Great video by the way!
Definitely depends on your hand size and shape - with the ergodox I never used keys beyond the internal thumb cluster so I felt 6+ keys on each hand were going unused. Thank you for your kind words!
For me the end game keyboards are the dactyl manuform and the stenographer keyboard (both of which are aimed for typing, not for playing games. If you want to play a game, just get the half one). For a low-profile, travel friendly keyboard, I would also go for the chocofi
I've used a 34-key keyboard for about 6 months, and I could use it without much problem. However, for some specific use cases, I needed to make many movements to perform certain tasks. Over time, I started thinking about going back to a 36-key layout (which I had tried before). Since then, I have been using a 36-key keyboard (3w6 to be more exact), and I think that's definitely the 'sweet spot.' But don't get me wrong, 34 keys are definitely usable, but 36 is more convenient. As a programmer using Vim and DWM (with Arch Linux, btw), I need to access certain keys faster, and it's much better to do that with 36 keys.
My thought entirely that 34 could still be useable, but I would lose 2 keys that are helpful macros and do some pretty cool things. I think this layout will be the one I continue to work on for years to come!
I’m curious to see how you’d approach different use cases. Like maybe a programming layout and a writing layout? Would you use a different map or one map to rule them all?
I pretty much use one layout across all use cases, there are layers that allow me to toggle into the programming symbols as well as function, so any key is really only a keystroke away!
Ferris sweep I assume? The only thing for me stopping me going to 34 is that I still have a bit of use for the inside thumb keys. 36 seems pretty well endgame for me as the video title suggests!
I have used aurora sweep for half a year now. Jumped directly from 75% to 34 keys without issues. I don't feel like I'm missing any functionality compared to to the 75% board. Using my custom qmk layout with dedicated gaming layer.
Also switched from ergodox to small keyboard. I'm on dasbob, the only thing I would suggest to add mouse emulation keys to your keyboard. That is really handy.
I'll have to explore that, currently really trying to limit mouse stuff almost entirely, but there is still things a mouse is better for than vim keys. Thanks for the suggestion!
I have a similar keys layout and also have a macro for my email! But I have an additional layer for function keys so that they are the same as the numbers.
Is your repo public? I'll have a look if so. I really wanted to keep it fairly minimalist and in 3 layers I appear to be able to get even more functionality than a typical 108 key board.
i use fifi -- chocofi's predecessor. it's wired and use regular mx switch (and so far cheaper). i use it with colemak-dh miryoku keymap. really love it
I have exactly the same back issue, from an injury playing Rugby when I was 16. I guess I wouldn't be overly interested in these kinds of keyboards if it hadn't happened to me. All the best to you.
Hi, great video! I just finished building my wireless 6-column Corne keyboard, and I came across your video and wanted to try using the home row mods. I looked at your keymap using the keymap editor, and I saw that you made 3 behaviours: `&hm`, `&shifthr`, and `&weak`. Can you please explain what the difference is between these 3 behaviours, since all of them use mod-tap behaviours? Thanks.
Ah. that has to do with typing speed - so the &shift would be on my index finger, therefore it has a 185ms tapping actuation, the base &hm has a 200ms tap, and the &weak (my pinky for the meta homerow mod) has 230ms tap. This I found helps to forgo any accidental key presses based on finger speed to tap.
@@JoshuaBlais ooh, so it's mod-tap but with different tapping actuation times, thanks for the explanation, I just flashed your keymap to my keyboard, hopefully it can convince me to change to 5 column layout, Thanks!
@@liluzi4579 You bet, you may have to play around with the timings, that seems to work well for me but everyone's different. Keep me posted how you like it!
I do second the endgame here - I did go with building my own crkbd/corne-chocolate, modded with wireless and soon enough (1mo in) did get rid of the 6th column. which from the looks of it makes it very similar to your setup. I am still to find the good solution for tenting - things I've tried so far add bulk to the keeb and are a bit fiddly - at times I do like banging the code in when I'm in the flow. With home row mods, I know it did get better, I still need to chop off a few milliseconds when typing CamelCase, otherwise I get jcameljcase :)
If you have a look at my ZMK config, I use different timings for the more dominant and less dominant fingers (180ms dominant, 200ms for ring and pinky) that seems to, for me, alleviate the issue you are talking about! Tenting wise, I will do a new video - I have got some superclamps and mounted the keeb to my desk in a way that allows fully vertical tenting and my posture is already improving
@@JoshuaBlais I will have a look - mine is a Frankenstein of urob’s timeless hrm and miriyoku layout, another steal wouldn’t hurt, right?)) I’d be interested if you made a YT short proving config performance on monkeytype with a programming language of your choice :p Consider a challenge ;)
I bought a pre-soldered version, just had to screw it all together and put the keycaps on! Underscore is on the minus key by hitting shift, or you can combo press the k-v keys to do one.
Nice video man, it’s nice seeing new youtubers. I will just give some constructive criticism so you can hopefully blow up :), talk a bit faster. I just got into the rabbit hole and can’t help but think how good wooting analog switches would be for these types of keyboards. If they made shorter ones with a clear tactile bump at least a third of the way down, you could easily have it as a light tap is an alternate function to that of the main function from a full press.
I use the chocofi as well. In fact I now have two. One for my desk and one for my bag. I don't think its possible to shrink any smaller than this without a typing speed reduction. (Actually I could do with two more keys). If I could change it, I would move the thumb keys so I don't have to tuck my thumb inside as much.
I agree, even the ferris sweep and derivatives don't really have a smaller footprint than the chocofi so it's a moot point. I don't mind the key placement on the thumbs but I also admit I don't use the innermost key on either hand that often, so could get away with 34 keys.
One thing I don't get, and haven't had much luck while googling, is how do you use home row mods and use the same letter while the modifier is active? For example, if shift is on the letter "a", how do I accomplish shift+a? It's probably obvious, but all the home-row-mods articles I find are so wordy and more about accomplishing the programming than explaining use cases.
You use the opposite hand to hold the modifier - it actually teaches you proper touch typing, as that is why all keyboards have two shift keys. It took some retraining for me, as I always only used the left shift key when I was typing.
@@JoshuaBlais thanks! Funny, when I saw you had replied, my brain instantly went "oh.. duh, the mods are mirrored on the other hand..." before I even read the reply. My brain must not have been functioning properly yesterday. Thanks for the explanation!
The lack of tenting was the main thing keeping me from trying the corne keyboards. What are you using for tenting? I’m currently on a moonlander, but I’ve noticed a lot of my keys are going unused 😅
For more extreme tenting at home you can use a MagSafe Ring sticker and then something like a Manfroto MP3-BK, UGREEN Magnetic phone stand, or some type of Z-Flex Head (I use Neewer) with a magnetic tripod adapter. I tent at 60 degrees but can still detach to go mobile. You could even keep the kickstand mounts for additional mobile tenting.
i'm at 36 as well, I didn't really think I would want the extra two; but they end up being keys that I hit with my palm. Using a keyball39 with an EC11 on one side, and a trackball on the others :D
This production quality is insane! Amazing video. I'm looking forward to one of those mech ergo keyboards. Those wrist rests also look cool, where did you get them?
I had to do some adjustment with the timings on each finger on the home row, my index/third finger are faster than my ring/pinky so I changed the tap/hold behaviour to reflect this. You will see on my keyboard layout repo the timings range from 185 to 230ms. But with fine tuning, you can type entirely normally just based on your individual finger speed.
Hey guys! Do you like this better than the Corne, Klein, Totem, Klor, Dilemma, Ferris Sweep Bling, 3W6HS or similar ones? I am having a hard time deciding, which one I actually want.
I went for the chocofi due to it being wireless, I wanted 5 columns, and it also supports the nice! view. It is more compact than all of those options with the exception of ferris sweep (that is a 34 key board). I liked the look of it the most, too.
The >< are just on shift for the , and . keys. I like the 36, 42 I don't know what I would do with the extra 6 keys, 34 I would miss out on a couple macro keys I use very frequently and would have to put them on either a double key or change out the layout I've got pretty well ingrained now. Just my $0.02
@@JoshuaBlais Thanks, I can see your point. The reason I'm still looking for 42 is because I live in Belgium and occasionally have to type in French as well, which requires characters like ç,à,é,è, ...
@@JoshuaBlais Yes, there is indeed still some room for another layer. One more thing though. Sometimes I need to use software where I use modifiers with multiple keys where the home row modifiers might give an issue. Let's say in your case you have to type CTRL-SHIFT S E, where CTRL is actually a long hold of those same S and E keys. Do you have a solution for these, I must admit, edge cases? Or am I stretching it 😁?
@@DenCato That would be a severe edgecase, if I ever run into something like that, I will likely remap keys in my Window manager (hyprland), or in the software myself. You can also create a macro button that literally actuates all of those keys at once in the ZMK software -- it is highly configurable!
How is the autonomy on your wireless split kb ? I hesitate to put screens on my future build as I'm scared that the screens are going to eat too much battery.
Do you ever run into connection issues with the wireless? I have a low tolerance for that as it just turns into a distraction in the middle of work. Not no tolerance, but just not much tolerance.
Hey man really cool stuff! I'm looking to experiment with this for use with my linux machine. I'm curious on the usability for gaming? Could I create a separate profile/layout for wasd movement and other gaming controls, and then switch back to a productivity profile for everything else? Also could you still easily use a regular keyboard if you have to use a laptop or something?
for gaming, you could set up a permanent layer that allows you the movement keys (or remap them to colemak/whatever layout you end up on) and it would be fairly seamless. I have setup a kmonad configuration mirroring my colemak DH layout on my laptop keyboard and can't really see myself going back to qwerty as I don't really have to use other people's computers. If you do, it might take some getting used to in order to be able to switch muscle memory (some people say it is easy - I went from about 110wpm qwerty to
@@benjaminsgs5799 I misunderstood you, &shifthr is a homerow mod with 180ms latency, &weak is homerow mod with 200ms latency (I noticed that my index/middle finger are faster than ring/pinky so that is the reason for that) You can do this as a custom behaviour in the graphical tool I have linked in the show notes
@@JoshuaBlais no, you didn‘t. i wanted to know both anyway. i never used homerow mods myself (i use a lili58 but only since two weeks) but i guess i‘ll have to build smaller boards too anyway
Think about long term comfort - when I was using QWERTY I would have tremendous hand pain after a day at work, with Colemak I have not felt any pain whatsoever and it's far more comfortable, even though I am at the same typing speed. One change for a life of less pain is worth it to me.
for first split keyboard ? i cant decide between chocofi with ZMK and piantor with QMK vial both of them really similar (3-5). in your opinion which firmware is user friendly and pro and con. so if my MX switch is 45 linear switch. so should i go with 35g or 20g for choc switch .
I only have experience with ZMK and ZSA's version of QMK - I will say that they are very comparable for functionality at the end of the day, ZMK being a little more difficult to configure (but you can clone my layout to get started!) I like the wireless board for the chocofi, but piantor I have heard good things. I came from 45g silvers and went to the 20g choc blues - I like them but some might say they are too light.
What software are you using to map your layers? If I wanted to do the same for my keyboard, where would I do that? ( referring to the graphics that were on the screen)
I have been wanting this keyboard for way too long but I have no building experience and the one on beekeeb is just way to expensive (Rs 14,340) (or $173). For context this is more than 10% of the monthly pay of an above average developer in India. is there a way to build this myself, a place where I can source the parts for cheap, I am fully willing to invest my time into it, but have financial restrictions.
r/ergomechkeyboards might be a good place to start looking, the parts are open sourced on github, and there are some pcb printers that can print very cheaply ($10ish USD) - the expensive part is the controllers and screens if you go that direction.
Switches are expensive too. I was sourcing all parts myself - it doesn’t get lower than what your quote, but also adds an overhead of soldering station and risk or messing all up.
@@jazzzAiman I personally have no affection for mechanical switches, but the form factor of this keyboard is what I need (want/desire). Is there any way I can use some cheap knockoffs?
Cost can vary wildly depending on some options and whether you already have access to some tools or not. A corne-ish zen costs hundreds of dollars, but if you go full DIY you can probably build a corne for around 60 to 80 dollars wired and around 100 to 120 wireless. It will take a bit of work and probably won't look as polished, but for me, that's part of the charm of weird DIY keyboards.
If - my fellow spinally suffering brother - you're interested in looking further down the rabbit hole, check out the Svalboard - if you don't know it already. I've heard great things and it's probably where I'll end up. After that, I think it's brain in a jar for me. Best to you.
That thing looks like its from the year 3024. 1200 Canadian pesos is a bit much, but in the spirit of science (OCD) this might be a future consideration! God bless!
@@JVSd-SG The only other one I would swap to would be a customized variant of this one with some finger splay and a bit wider thumbs, otherwise I would say this is pretty well the endgame for me!
You could have an entire layer (or layers) that are macros for anything you could possibly want to use a shortcut for - you could set that shortcut to a key and you're of to the races.
Fair enough, simplicity is subjective - For me it was consolidating multiple keyboards and devices down to this one keyboard with layers, allowing me a single keyboard that travels with me everywhere.
@@eeaahh I don't want just a keyboard (that's why I'm here, commenting on this video duh) but don't want to spend bazillion euro finding one that fits me. That's unreasonable.
This is a type of YT video I miss very much. Straight to the point, only the interesting & relevant info. 11 minutes of 'meat'. Top-notch!
Thank you a million, I don't like wasting anyone's time!
@@JoshuaBlais Thanks, Joshua! Keep doing such a great job!
@@JoshuaBlais Do you have somewhere an image (screenshot or the like) of the layers you're currently using (besides Colemak, of course)? I did see the GH repository, but it's simpler to actually see the layout on an image. Maybe I could use some of your ideas in my very first split keyboard (I just bought a ZSA Voyager).
@@hteulmfan I just added them to my blog post: joshblais.com/posts/colemak-and-kmonad/#my-layers
There you go!
I thought this was like a 1mil subscriber channel dang
The little guys are coming!! haha
real
Holy shit, fr.
same! Solid quality Joshua!!!!
Why?
I've not seen many people cover the chocofi, this is awesome
Thank you! I went back and forth vs. a corne and I am very happy I chose the Chocofi
@@JoshuaBlais how did you choose between them? what were the things that you prefered?
@@benjaminsgs5799 The more aggressive row stagger, as well as the look really! Other than that they offer the same features - I am even using a corne layout editor for the chocofi.
@@JoshuaBlais thank you for your honest answer. i guess the looks aren't the least important when choosing a keyboard
This can fit anything but not the bill
In the past, you could use just one key using Morse code, so there's room to evolve.
haha! What was the fastest ever recorded typing speed with morse code? That is something I'd like to know!
Apparently 75-100+ according to Google 😮
@@EdwardVarner That's pretty insane!
If you want speed, look no further than steno. Corne is a pretty decent option for learning steno without moving to a dedicated steno keyboard.
@@gcolombelli steno doesn’t work for coding
Your video quality punches way above where your subscriber count would suggest. Also love seeing some love for the low profile boards. Great job!
Cheers, God bless!
I actually ran a 36 key layout emulated on my laptops built in keyboard with kmonad for over 6 months while I slowly worked on my actual split 36 key board. It’s really excellent software, and let me make sure I was interested in the concept before I committed to the hardware. 8/8 highly recommend. Once I had my finished hardware, there was no learning curve as I had been using the layout for months
I also now run a kmonad setup on my laptop, just went backward from the layout to the laptop haha! I love using home row mods and a number layer on a laptop, it's game changing.
Can we run this on Win & Mac?
@@AX-fx7ng kmonad is cross platform, I don't personally know how to run it on windows, but should be a similar setup on mac as linux
@@AX-fx7ng definitely! The kmonad git repo had plenty for me to get started with it, if you’re keen on a 36 key layout, take a look at Miryoku, there’s a pre-configured kmonad config for it, and it was the perfect starting point for me. These days my layout is pretty customized and resembles miryoku only in the core design fundamentals, but my actual layout is almost entirely different
Amazing delivery and video quality, thought you were more popular on YT, I see potential, good luck!
Thank you for your kind words! God bless
Super cool! This is nearly the exact same layout that I settled on myself! It was like looking at a mirror.
I feel that it is a simple layout but gets really everything done that I need it to do! I never really understood the 6+ layer layouts, feels excessive to me
how did you install the tenting legs?
Just used double sided gorilla tape!
@@JoshuaBlais lol nice, might try that
@@JoshuaBlaisdo you have s link for the legs? Om waiting for my chocofi to arrive and would love to pair it with some legs.
@@dgaa1991 shop.beekeeb.com/product/bobtail-keyboard-tenting-legs-for-split-keyboards/
You can find similar ones on aliexpress too
I bought a Corne (which is similar) during the covid lockdowns but I never really found the patience to finish the build, soldering the diodes felt so tedious, so I forgot about it. You video made me remember and I have now a project for a rainy day again, thanx for that! 👍I had a similar experience from a 122 key IBM Battleship keyboard with buckling springs to now a Planck with 47 keys. I'm still not sure about low profile, I love heavy tactile and clicky switches and high SA or MT3 keycaps (and their full sound and feel).
I wasn't sure about the low profile ether, but I think its very comfortable compromise so that the board is as portable as possible. Make a vid showcasing your corne! Did you do 42 or 36 keys?
If the diodes seem tedious, have a look at the Cantor. It does't have/need diodes, so you only have to do the controllers and switches.
SMD diodes are pretty easy to solder once you get the hang of it. Add a tiny bit of solder to one of the pads first, then bring the diode in place, position it and pull the soldering iron out. That's it. Add a little more solder if you think there's not enough, then solder the other side, that's it. Make sure the PCB is clean, using flux and non-crap solder helps a lot too.
I just bought a ZSA Voyager and it is a fantastic keyboard. It's also very slim and minimal, but is a 52 key keyboard. When I got it I wondered if it was going to be hard to use and would have too few keys. Having used it for about a month, I can definitely see how a keyboard like this (the one you showed) can be used. I have a symbols/numbers layer like you do and I pretty much always use that instead of reaching for the numbers row on the main layer. I also just started learning Colemak DH as well. I'm up to about 20wpm. Still slow, but getting there.
One thing I don't like about other keyboards like the one you showed is how far tucked in the thumb keys are under the rest of the board. I like to open my hands up a bit while I'm using the keyboard. So I'm not sure how comfortable it would be for me to use one.
Great video by the way!
Definitely depends on your hand size and shape - with the ergodox I never used keys beyond the internal thumb cluster so I felt 6+ keys on each hand were going unused. Thank you for your kind words!
went down the same path, voyager to a wireless chocofi
For me the end game keyboards are the dactyl manuform and the stenographer keyboard (both of which are aimed for typing, not for playing games. If you want to play a game, just get the half one). For a low-profile, travel friendly keyboard, I would also go for the chocofi
Definitely needed the travel form factor, I'm loving this thing so far, 5 months in!
I've used a 34-key keyboard for about 6 months, and I could use it without much problem. However, for some specific use cases, I needed to make many movements to perform certain tasks. Over time, I started thinking about going back to a 36-key layout (which I had tried before). Since then, I have been using a 36-key keyboard (3w6 to be more exact), and I think that's definitely the 'sweet spot.' But don't get me wrong, 34 keys are definitely usable, but 36 is more convenient. As a programmer using Vim and DWM (with Arch Linux, btw), I need to access certain keys faster, and it's much better to do that with 36 keys.
My thought entirely that 34 could still be useable, but I would lose 2 keys that are helpful macros and do some pretty cool things. I think this layout will be the one I continue to work on for years to come!
I’m curious to see how you’d approach different use cases. Like maybe a programming layout and a writing layout? Would you use a different map or one map to rule them all?
I pretty much use one layout across all use cases, there are layers that allow me to toggle into the programming symbols as well as function, so any key is really only a keystroke away!
as an 34 keys split keyboard user i also think that 36 is the sweet spot
Ferris sweep I assume? The only thing for me stopping me going to 34 is that I still have a bit of use for the inside thumb keys. 36 seems pretty well endgame for me as the video title suggests!
I use 35 keys and can’t imagine dropping one more !
Although I guess with homerow mods I could drop to 33…
I have used aurora sweep for half a year now. Jumped directly from 75% to 34 keys without issues. I don't feel like I'm missing any functionality compared to to the 75% board. Using my custom qmk layout with dedicated gaming layer.
As a 34 key board user I'm planning to go 18 because it still feels too big lol. Don't know if I'll stick with it though.
"Coupling that with pull-up bar hangs and deadlifts."
Also switched from ergodox to small keyboard. I'm on dasbob, the only thing I would suggest to add mouse emulation keys to your keyboard. That is really handy.
I'll have to explore that, currently really trying to limit mouse stuff almost entirely, but there is still things a mouse is better for than vim keys. Thanks for the suggestion!
vimium browser extension also helps a lot on keeping from mouse usage@@JoshuaBlais
I have a similar keys layout and also have a macro for my email! But I have an additional layer for function keys so that they are the same as the numbers.
I tried to keep it to as few layers as possible, but totally valid! The email macro is a Godsend haha
your layout is super similar to what i’m using after having a corne for two years
Is your repo public? I'll have a look if so. I really wanted to keep it fairly minimalist and in 3 layers I appear to be able to get even more functionality than a typical 108 key board.
i use fifi -- chocofi's predecessor. it's wired and use regular mx switch (and so far cheaper). i use it with colemak-dh miryoku keymap. really love it
I really love the overall layout, I modified miryoku pretty heavily as I wanted as few layers as possible, but same base layout of colemak-dh!
I have exactly the same back issue, from an injury playing Rugby when I was 16. I guess I wouldn't be overly interested in these kinds of keyboards if it hadn't happened to me. All the best to you.
God bless to you brother!
Beekeeb does beautiful work.
Agreed, Leo is super responsive and generous, highly recommend to anyone!
if you are running linux you can run keyd as a systemd service the config is similar to kmonad
I've never explored that! Been running kmonad for almost a year and very much enjoying it
Hi, great video! I just finished building my wireless 6-column Corne keyboard, and I came across your video and wanted to try using the home row mods. I looked at your keymap using the keymap editor, and I saw that you made 3 behaviours: `&hm`, `&shifthr`, and `&weak`. Can you please explain what the difference is between these 3 behaviours, since all of them use mod-tap behaviours? Thanks.
Ah. that has to do with typing speed - so the &shift would be on my index finger, therefore it has a 185ms tapping actuation, the base &hm has a 200ms tap, and the &weak (my pinky for the meta homerow mod) has 230ms tap. This I found helps to forgo any accidental key presses based on finger speed to tap.
@@JoshuaBlais ooh, so it's mod-tap but with different tapping actuation times, thanks for the explanation, I just flashed your keymap to my keyboard, hopefully it can convince me to change to 5 column layout, Thanks!
@@liluzi4579 You bet, you may have to play around with the timings, that seems to work well for me but everyone's different. Keep me posted how you like it!
Nice! Where did you get the tenting legs? They seem really practical
shop.beekeeb.com/product/bobtail-keyboard-tenting-legs-for-split-keyboards/
right here!
@@JoshuaBlais Oh, amazing, thank you!
@@sophiebosio8171 you bet!
I do second the endgame here - I did go with building my own crkbd/corne-chocolate, modded with wireless and soon enough (1mo in) did get rid of the 6th column. which from the looks of it makes it very similar to your setup.
I am still to find the good solution for tenting - things I've tried so far add bulk to the keeb and are a bit fiddly - at times I do like banging the code in when I'm in the flow.
With home row mods, I know it did get better, I still need to chop off a few milliseconds when typing CamelCase, otherwise I get jcameljcase :)
If you have a look at my ZMK config, I use different timings for the more dominant and less dominant fingers (180ms dominant, 200ms for ring and pinky) that seems to, for me, alleviate the issue you are talking about!
Tenting wise, I will do a new video - I have got some superclamps and mounted the keeb to my desk in a way that allows fully vertical tenting and my posture is already improving
@@JoshuaBlais I will have a look - mine is a Frankenstein of urob’s timeless hrm and miriyoku layout, another steal wouldn’t hurt, right?))
I’d be interested if you made a YT short proving config performance on monkeytype with a programming language of your choice :p
Consider a challenge ;)
@@jazzzAiman haha well then I will have to take you up on that!
The numpad layer is so nice
It honestly makes doing my taxes bearable.
using your layout with the chocofi and love it !
Glad you like it, I haven't changed a thing since I arrived at that layout a few months back, find it very solid!
Looks great, did you make the board yourself? Love the legs.
Where is your underscore?
Great video.
I bought a pre-soldered version, just had to screw it all together and put the keycaps on! Underscore is on the minus key by hitting shift, or you can combo press the k-v keys to do one.
Nice video man, it’s nice seeing new youtubers. I will just give some constructive criticism so you can hopefully blow up :), talk a bit faster.
I just got into the rabbit hole and can’t help but think how good wooting analog switches would be for these types of keyboards. If they made shorter ones with a clear tactile bump at least a third of the way down, you could easily have it as a light tap is an alternate function to that of the main function from a full press.
Thank you for the feedback, I will definitely attempt to talk faster, I just always watch videos at 2x speed so figured that was everyone else too :P
@@JoshuaBlais I do that most of the time as well. Med school made 2x speed the norm for me haha.
@@bear532 Sometimes I wish I could 3x Haha!
Really good video 👍🏻
Best wishes from the UK
God bless!
I use the chocofi as well. In fact I now have two. One for my desk and one for my bag. I don't think its possible to shrink any smaller than this without a typing speed reduction. (Actually I could do with two more keys). If I could change it, I would move the thumb keys so I don't have to tuck my thumb inside as much.
I agree, even the ferris sweep and derivatives don't really have a smaller footprint than the chocofi so it's a moot point. I don't mind the key placement on the thumbs but I also admit I don't use the innermost key on either hand that often, so could get away with 34 keys.
One thing I don't get, and haven't had much luck while googling, is how do you use home row mods and use the same letter while the modifier is active? For example, if shift is on the letter "a", how do I accomplish shift+a? It's probably obvious, but all the home-row-mods articles I find are so wordy and more about accomplishing the programming than explaining use cases.
You use the opposite hand to hold the modifier - it actually teaches you proper touch typing, as that is why all keyboards have two shift keys. It took some retraining for me, as I always only used the left shift key when I was typing.
@@JoshuaBlais thanks! Funny, when I saw you had replied, my brain instantly went "oh.. duh, the mods are mirrored on the other hand..." before I even read the reply. My brain must not have been functioning properly yesterday. Thanks for the explanation!
@@SilkieRoo You are most welcome!
The lack of tenting was the main thing keeping me from trying the corne keyboards. What are you using for tenting? I’m currently on a moonlander, but I’ve noticed a lot of my keys are going unused 😅
I use these with the adhesive pads, they are really solid: shop.beekeeb.com/product/bobtail-keyboard-tenting-legs-for-split-keyboards/
Ah perfect! Thank you
For more extreme tenting at home you can use a MagSafe Ring sticker and then something like a Manfroto MP3-BK, UGREEN Magnetic phone stand, or some type of Z-Flex Head (I use Neewer) with a magnetic tripod adapter. I tent at 60 degrees but can still detach to go mobile. You could even keep the kickstand mounts for additional mobile tenting.
@@frankprogrammer I am likely going to do just this, that is a phenomenal suggestion, thank you!
Some vendors offer the option of plates with screw holes for tenting on a corne.
i'm at 36 as well, I didn't really think I would want the extra two; but they end up being keys that I hit with my palm. Using a keyball39 with an EC11 on one side, and a trackball on the others :D
I particularly like the right hand extra key because it acts as zero in my number layer, making it easier to contextually know where everything is!
This production quality is insane! Amazing video. I'm looking forward to one of those mech ergo keyboards. Those wrist rests also look cool, where did you get them?
thank you! The rests are the ergodox EZ rests: ergodox-ez.com/accessories
Hey man, great video! Do you find that the home-row mod latency makes it more difficult to type or did you get used it to after a while?
I had to do some adjustment with the timings on each finger on the home row, my index/third finger are faster than my ring/pinky so I changed the tap/hold behaviour to reflect this. You will see on my keyboard layout repo the timings range from 185 to 230ms. But with fine tuning, you can type entirely normally just based on your individual finger speed.
How does the version from the store compare to the Temper?
I believe the temper would be very similar to this version, I am not sure if the temper has support for the nice! view screens however.
I’m confused, please can someone explain, if the home row are modifiers, eg S is shift, how do you capitalise an S ?
You use the modifier on the opposite hand so right hand hold modifier to capitalize T, left hand hold to capitalize N, etc.
@@JoshuaBlais doh, obvious now you say it, my brain clearly not working right today, thank you for replying.
Hey guys! Do you like this better than the Corne, Klein, Totem, Klor, Dilemma, Ferris Sweep Bling, 3W6HS or similar ones? I am having a hard time deciding, which one I actually want.
I went for the chocofi due to it being wireless, I wanted 5 columns, and it also supports the nice! view. It is more compact than all of those options with the exception of ferris sweep (that is a 34 key board). I liked the look of it the most, too.
Are you using nice view on that Chocofi kb?
you bet!
@@JoshuaBlais is there a reason for the modified colmak? i just noticed the G-B-D-V are in a different order
@@glitch015 It is Colemak DH layout - using this base layer: github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku
Hitting the gym, with heavy and long sessions is very good for posture.
It's the most important thing one can do if they are working in front of a screen (heck, for everyone).
Looks nice. I am deciding between a 34/36 and 42 layout.
But where is your key?
The >< are just on shift for the , and . keys.
I like the 36, 42 I don't know what I would do with the extra 6 keys, 34 I would miss out on a couple macro keys I use very frequently and would have to put them on either a double key or change out the layout I've got pretty well ingrained now. Just my $0.02
@@JoshuaBlais Thanks, I can see your point. The reason I'm still looking for 42 is because I live in Belgium and occasionally have to type in French as well, which requires characters like ç,à,é,è, ...
@@DenCato That makes total sense! You could always configure another language layer though
@@JoshuaBlais Yes, there is indeed still some room for another layer.
One more thing though. Sometimes I need to use software where I use modifiers with multiple keys where the home row modifiers might give an issue.
Let's say in your case you have to type CTRL-SHIFT S E, where CTRL is actually a long hold of those same S and E keys.
Do you have a solution for these, I must admit, edge cases? Or am I stretching it 😁?
@@DenCato That would be a severe edgecase, if I ever run into something like that, I will likely remap keys in my Window manager (hyprland), or in the software myself. You can also create a macro button that literally actuates all of those keys at once in the ZMK software -- it is highly configurable!
What do use to control mouse? What is this round object in between parts of you keyboard?
I use a logitech mx ergo trackball as my mouse
@@JoshuaBlais
I see. I am a lefty. Unfortunately Logitech does not manufacture mice for left-handed people. Even their most popular models.
What tenting legs are those?
shop.beekeeb.com/product/bobtail-keyboard-tenting-legs-for-split-keyboards/
How is the autonomy on your wireless split kb ? I hesitate to put screens on my future build as I'm scared that the screens are going to eat too much battery.
I get at minimum a week of battery on the master side of the keyboard.
Do you ever run into connection issues with the wireless? I have a low tolerance for that as it just turns into a distraction in the middle of work. Not no tolerance, but just not much tolerance.
Very occasionally, however I reset the config files for ZMK and the connection has been rock solid since doing so.
Hey man really cool stuff! I'm looking to experiment with this for use with my linux machine. I'm curious on the usability for gaming? Could I create a separate profile/layout for wasd movement and other gaming controls, and then switch back to a productivity profile for everything else? Also could you still easily use a regular keyboard if you have to use a laptop or something?
for gaming, you could set up a permanent layer that allows you the movement keys (or remap them to colemak/whatever layout you end up on) and it would be fairly seamless.
I have setup a kmonad configuration mirroring my colemak DH layout on my laptop keyboard and can't really see myself going back to qwerty as I don't really have to use other people's computers. If you do, it might take some getting used to in order to be able to switch muscle memory (some people say it is easy - I went from about 110wpm qwerty to
whats the function of &shifthr on your number 3?
I use vimium to browse the web so it acts as a back button while in firefox
@@JoshuaBlais thank you. and what‘s &shifthr? if i add keypresses with modifiers it‘s still &kp
@@benjaminsgs5799 I misunderstood you, &shifthr is a homerow mod with 180ms latency, &weak is homerow mod with 200ms latency (I noticed that my index/middle finger are faster than ring/pinky so that is the reason for that) You can do this as a custom behaviour in the graphical tool I have linked in the show notes
@@JoshuaBlais no, you didn‘t. i wanted to know both anyway. i never used homerow mods myself (i use a lili58 but only since two weeks) but i guess i‘ll have to build smaller boards too anyway
@@benjaminsgs5799 I love the homerow mods but they are subjective and some people do prefer the dedicated modifier keys
I don't understand other standards, if you can't write faster is not better, most people I know that switched after 1 year they perform the same
Think about long term comfort - when I was using QWERTY I would have tremendous hand pain after a day at work, with Colemak I have not felt any pain whatsoever and it's far more comfortable, even though I am at the same typing speed. One change for a life of less pain is worth it to me.
for first split keyboard ? i cant decide between chocofi with ZMK and piantor with QMK vial both of them really similar (3-5). in your opinion which firmware is user friendly and pro and con. so if my MX switch is 45 linear switch. so should i go with 35g or 20g for choc switch .
I only have experience with ZMK and ZSA's version of QMK - I will say that they are very comparable for functionality at the end of the day, ZMK being a little more difficult to configure (but you can clone my layout to get started!) I like the wireless board for the chocofi, but piantor I have heard good things.
I came from 45g silvers and went to the 20g choc blues - I like them but some might say they are too light.
How well do those small batteries work? Swell video btw
I get weeks of charge in them, maybe charge the boards twice a month
Did you get the prebuilt or DIY option? Also, what type of case are you using?
I got the pre-soldered option, there is still a little assembly required but no soldering. It is a clear acrylic case
Where did you get the tenting kit from?
beekeeb.com
@@JoshuaBlais Thank you! :D
What software are you using to map your layers? If I wanted to do the same for my keyboard, where would I do that? ( referring to the graphics that were on the screen)
nickcoutsos.github.io/keymap-editor/
This ZMK layout editor right here!
Svalboard is coming to your algorithm very soon
I've seen it! Very interesting concept, a little less portable from my understanding though
Hi what are you using for palm/wrist support? I couldn't tell but looks ergonomic
those are wrist wrests from my Ergodox, I now use a similar solution to Ben Vallack with camera clamps on the desk
Great vid!
God bless!
I have been wanting this keyboard for way too long but I have no building experience and the one on beekeeb is just way to expensive (Rs 14,340) (or $173). For context this is more than 10% of the monthly pay of an above average developer in India.
is there a way to build this myself, a place where I can source the parts for cheap, I am fully willing to invest my time into it, but have financial restrictions.
r/ergomechkeyboards might be a good place to start looking, the parts are open sourced on github, and there are some pcb printers that can print very cheaply ($10ish USD) - the expensive part is the controllers and screens if you go that direction.
Switches are expensive too. I was sourcing all parts myself - it doesn’t get lower than what your quote, but also adds an overhead of soldering station and risk or messing all up.
@@jazzzAiman I personally have no affection for mechanical switches, but the form factor of this keyboard is what I need (want/desire). Is there any way I can use some cheap knockoffs?
Youd think the smaller the cheaper..
You would, however when you look at all the tech in it, as well as the fact its pretty 'niche' it makes a little more sense!
Cost can vary wildly depending on some options and whether you already have access to some tools or not. A corne-ish zen costs hundreds of dollars, but if you go full DIY you can probably build a corne for around 60 to 80 dollars wired and around 100 to 120 wireless. It will take a bit of work and probably won't look as polished, but for me, that's part of the charm of weird DIY keyboards.
get a cheapino
If - my fellow spinally suffering brother - you're interested in looking further down the rabbit hole, check out the Svalboard - if you don't know it already. I've heard great things and it's probably where I'll end up. After that, I think it's brain in a jar for me. Best to you.
That thing looks like its from the year 3024. 1200 Canadian pesos is a bit much, but in the spirit of science (OCD) this might be a future consideration! God bless!
watching XahLee's review of this now
Are you still using it?
Yes, daily driver!
@@JoshuaBlais dont think to swap to any?
@@JVSd-SG The only other one I would swap to would be a customized variant of this one with some finger splay and a bit wider thumbs, otherwise I would say this is pretty well the endgame for me!
yes!
I wish those split keyboards were much cheaper. Like really, you can buy good mechanical keyboard for $25-35.
It is because they are niche! However, if you are inclined you can build them quite a bit cheaper if you print the pcb yourself and source the parts.
as an artist that uses shorcuts constantly this looks more of a pain in the ass than actually helping
You could have an entire layer (or layers) that are macros for anything you could possibly want to use a shortcut for - you could set that shortcut to a key and you're of to the races.
@@JoshuaBlais i m not sure losing 10+ years of muscle memory is a great idea.
especially for onehanded use like when working.
@@alex_oiman Totally depends on your workflow my dude.
You need more splay in your life
Check my latest video, I think you'll be impressed by the splay.
I lost you when you said you wanted to keep things simple.
Fair enough, simplicity is subjective - For me it was consolidating multiple keyboards and devices down to this one keyboard with layers, allowing me a single keyboard that travels with me everywhere.
half keyboard
Too expensive to try.
There are various pcb printing companies and if you want to solder it yourself it can get the cost down substantially.
@@JoshuaBlais I hope you understand how ridiculous it sounds for wast majority of people that just want a keyboard.
these aren't meant for people who "just want a keyboard". it's fine if ur not the target audience
@@eeaahh I don't want just a keyboard (that's why I'm here, commenting on this video duh) but don't want to spend bazillion euro finding one that fits me. That's unreasonable.
This dumbass keyboard doesn't have a tripod mount?
Its funny because I added one to the bottom of the case with adhesive.
What tenting legs are those?
shop.beekeeb.com/product/bobtail-keyboard-tenting-legs-for-split-keyboards/