Orcs & Goblins vs Dwarfs - The Old World Live Battle Report
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
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Luka, some pointers since you're preparing your dwarfs for an event:
- Hammerers *really* *REALLY* want Rune of Confusion, it improves their efficiency by 1000% against most targets when charged. For instance, those Black Orcs would've died before they got to swing, instead of killing 5 Hammerers on Steve's turn 2.
- Dont forget that Kings and Thanes hate enemy characters, and also confer this ability to any Hammerers and Longbeards they have joined. This is kinda moot since dwarfs hate OnG in general, but still.
- Anvil of Dooms "Rune of Haste & Urgency" is a Conveyance so can be used same turn as say, Rune of Oath & Steel. Would've been great on your Hammerers in turn 3 on on the Gyros in general, like blocking the Giant.
Probably one of my favorite streams to date. Classic match up, strong dwarf list (as it should be), and an all around great game!
The Old World looks so fun! Thank you for all of the great showcasing and explaining!
Just for Reference Steve, Orc Giant has "Caloused Hide" counts as Light Armour, so you should have taken your 6+ save.
Luka failing to use his hatred reroll in the Warboss vs Ranger fight. That's going in the book.
Edit, failing to use Hatred at all, full page in the book.
Also never using Haste and Urgency to move the hammerers around.
Running 20 Hammerers without Rune of Confusion also is worthy of going in the book...
@@MinscS2 I can take or leave the army selection, but not playing the army mechanics is disappointing.
@@jtrain9926 Honestly, given that the Initiative bonus in Stoic Defenders is all but useless without RoConfusion, I'd say he's not playing the army mechanics if he doesn't take it.
@@Kcignatius yeah for the 35 points you cant go wrong, short stuff with I4/5 base.
pretty sure your warboss's shield does nothing; 4+ for plate, 3+ for pig, 2+ for shield, + up to a max of 2+ for pants (+ regen), take the shield out the save is the same
Yupp, Steve could've (should've - as he said; you live and you learn) put a GW on him since he already had a 2+, and saved ~30ish points and maintained the choppa-rule.
@@grlmgor Wow, paying 30 pts for maintaining your initiative, but losing out on the Choppa-rule. Worth...
@@grlmgor So is the GW on the charge as well.
Picking the Choppiest Choppa over a mundane GW nets you:
+1AP (in ongoing combat only.)
+ Maintaining your initiaitve.
+ Magical Attacks
-1S
- Losing re-roll 1's to wound on the charge.
- Losing AB(1)
Is this trade worth 30 points extra? Most people would say "absolutely not".
If using the Choppa allowed you to have a 2+ save instead of 3+, then it might be, but since the Warboss already had a 2+...
these old world battles have been really good. I don't know if that is a testament to old worlds rules or Luka and Steve's skill at the game. maybe both!
Why were the rangers getting an auto +4 in combat resolution? I thought skirmishers don’t get rank bonus?
At the time of this stream i made a very meme list for O&G with two blocks of 30 orcs each and No black orcs. Everything in my list is impetuous. I call it the 100% Organic Orcs list
I'll let you know how they fare
Khazukan Kazakit-ha!
love watching your oldworld content! Im so pumped to get an army ready
What a game! Always love the classic orcs vs stunties!
What a great game with lots of surprises and tight fights. The post battle talk was the real highlight fore though. Would be good to get a discussion video from you guys as to how you think the game is shaping up 2 weeks in.
Cheers!
7 wide trays would be really handy... hint hint
Thinking of getting 2-3 printed as a dwarf player as well.
Don't know if it's the lighting, change in studio, new cameras or a combo of everything but looking super crisp chaps
currently there is only one thing i think could be fixed in the game to make it better and that would be limiting dispels to your wizard level this will allow for a bit more interesting builds for armies to play around whit level 1 and level 2 wizards other then that i think TOW is amazing loved the battle was a lot of fun
I was thinking of house ruling one dispel attempt per wizard per phase 🤫
Line hammer needs to be fixed it's a glairing miss and might become a huge issue
I really love the Dwarves paint scheme - any chance you can share the recipes there?
Every dwarf battle report I see online is sadly the same, FAR too many points spent on characters and war machines with hardly any dwarf units! War machines and characters are rubbish against a skilled opponent, they will not get the job done (and the Orc player here is a good aggressive player). Sad to see……
What kind of list would you suggest? I am building one atm.
Dropping both organ guns, The Anvil of Doom, one gyrocopter and the runes from the battle standard nets you over 600points to spend on more dwarves (rangers & crossbowmen with greatweapons deployed in lines with a unit of 10 trollslayers on each flank).
@@lukefreeman4281 okay unbreakable trollslayers to protect the flanks. But why Great Weapons and not shields on the Rangers + Crossbowmen?
@@RAWxxx07 Lines of troops can all strike back in combat so they fire crossbows then stand and shoot with no penalty then all fight at strength 5.
yes organ guns are rubbish in the current edtion, totally wasted points, a5er with trollhammer is so much more dope. however havign great characters is sort of important, you may have to block some nasty dragon shits. But I would not use any ranged units aside rangers anymore, swarves went too weak on that part in this edition. only ballistas with preventing armor saves is a valid War machine option in my opinion. Also, utilising smith for buffing weapons. forgefire is strong on the real elite troops.
"What to stop with max3 rule?"
Gyrocopters and Dragon Ogres. Maybe trolls too.
just bring dwarven ballistas with rune of skewering, negating any armor is great, they sure have not the best hit modifiers, but so don't have any other warmachines. just bring 3 ballistas with it (and put 5's on them for the rune rules) and you reliably have something good to shoot. To ballerburg, like true dwarvens do, i'd field 6 ballistas, each with skewering, and 3 of each in a corner of the table eahc corner with an engineer. Let it rain big arrows that give a crap about armor.
A Black Orc Character on a Boar has a 1+ save when he has Full Plate, Armoured Hide 1, a Shield, and sparkly trousers... meaning if your debating whether to have a 2+ save or a great weapon... just take the great weapon since not taking a shield you have a 2+ save any way. In this situation the shield literally does nothing since you can't actually get a 1+ save, it caps at 2+!
Also, thoughts on the 'Eadbuttin At? for champions that can take it?
@@grlmgor the rules state you cant get better than a 2+, the sparkly trouser specifically state that as it give a point of armour from an unusual source so clarifies that it doesnt circumvent the rulebook. My point above is that a black orc boss on a boar already has a 3+ save, with the sparkley trousers that makes it a 2+, meaning giving him a shield does absolutely nothing
The eadbuttin at does give an auto hitting attack at ap-2 which is pretty good, charge in, issue a challenge, headbutt the enemy champion to death XD
Can you clarify Dragged Along. Would the screaming bell for example only have a viable declared charge range of 8”, even though when they “start their movement” within 1 inch of infantry 10 strong they would like have 5 movement and therefore 11 inch maximum charge?
Guys, I would highly appreciate some time tags in your battle reps!
Unfortunately I don‘t have the time to stream the whole videos snd scrolling back and forth is quite hard to estimste where the game is.
This little editing would be super welcome!
Gorgeous Dwarf army Gorgeous table and Gorgeous set!! (I'm sure the orcs look cool, but I don't care for them. It's not you, it's me.) Great learning game for me!
Okay did someone check and settle it? Was Steve making armor saves or regen saves?
For orcs any reason why you do shaman on wyvern rather than warboss? Trying to think for my savage orc army if i put shaman and bsb in block of orcs and general on wyvern or if switch level 4 and warboss around. Was thinking giving warboss potion of toughness and the killing blow axe or maybe giant blade.
Question as a Daemon player: It seems this edition does not allow their BsB, now called Locus, to have them re-roll Ld/break tests. I hope I am wrong, but can't find it in their rules. Any thoughts?
I quite like the "drilled" rule/upgrade. I deploy some close order units in marching column (which triples their movement) and either match them straight up a flank or right in the enemies face, and then use the free "redress the ranks" to them into fighting order. I like to march my Greatswords up the flank (usually with some knights). In two turns charging a flank with knights and a big block of infantry. Movement 12 Greatswords are fantastic 😁. Unless I'm reading drilled wrong?
The reshape of drilled is befor you move... you can use it to charge directly out of a marching formation because you can reshape yourself to combat formation.. but keep in mind that your range to charge gets shorter too :)
I want to know more about that amazing board!
Any idea how fallback in good order and swiftstride works?? When you flee are you rolling 2d6 keeping the lowest and adding a third dice or something else??
Another great batrep! Love seeing all the great Old World content.
Sleeper combo for Dwarf armies is just the Anvil. Anvil of Doom has amazing synergy with the entire army.
@@toro132 There is no way that it is useless. It has the longest-range spells in the game, which helps with its movability, and they're great spells. It's a level 3 mage, but that's better than the level 1 or 2 dispellers that can be taken otherwise. I agree that it's points value is a shame, but it's still a strong choice and far from useless.
@toro132 disagree 100%. Casts as bound spells, is unbreakable, can take 3 auto dispell Runes, makes itonbreakers near unkillable. One of the best magic missiles in the game.
The Anvil of Doom has been the MVP in each of my games.
As fsr as not being able to move, you don't place it first and leave multiple gaps between your units.
Great batrep! Love me some dwarves
Not directly related to this matchup but I have a very important question as I'm assembling my Tomb Kings core box - DO you think the better move is to put the hierophant on the Bone Dragon or use the Tomb King and have the former roaming around on foot?
I'd say put the tomb king on dragon. You'll more likely get into melee and actually use the monster. Hierophant is protected by being a small target and/or a infantry unit.
Id got foot wizard with cloak of dunes so he can get around (and do some chip damage) and king on bone daddy to go fight stuff
Finally a game where it looks dwarves are competent. Inwas thinking either starting dwarves or warriors of chaos, which would you think is the better combat army? Perhaps more Luka-style
Warriors of chaos would be better than dwarfs on a power level standard they also have a ton of wicked aos models
If you want to go straight melee chaos all day. Dwarves work really well as a more balanced army, with a 2-3 shooting units and maybe a warmachine, or as a heavy shooting army. Changes to Vanguard really hamper combat only/strollaz lists, so you need to compel the enemy to close on you.
@@jtrain9926 Move and shoot options are better in this edition though. With BS4 Scout/Skirmish Rangers, and Quickshot BS4 Irondrakes looking absolutely awesome, plus Gyrocopters being way better than ever - I actually think aggressive is easier now than before.
@@Kcignatius yes, my current build I'm painting is rangers, 2 units of Irondrakes and a gyrocopter, that being the balanced list I mentioned.
I'm thinking a bit block of rangers is going to be staple as they act as a unit of warriors when charged, but just better
Way better w the stand and shoot. The real question is if the great weapons or shields are the way (or both for 3ppm?)
@@jtrain9926 In a big block, I'd lean towards shields. The extra armour means that the opponent won't be able to claw back the CR you win from S&S, etc. With that being said, they aren't the same as Warriors because they can't take Close order, so they're one CR down. Points per wound is a big deal too. I think Rangers will play better as skirmishing scouts. Too versatile to pass up IMO.
Can the black or boss go in the boar boys? doesn't the "Da Boyz" rule prevent that?
FOR ALGORYTHMO! FOR THE STEVE! FOR LUGNUT MCGILLYGULLY JR THE BESTIGOR!
Can someone point to the page where stand and shoot counts towards the combat result?
Can i get a rules clarification?
33:12mins into the batrep Luka shot his quarrellers and because rhe wyvrn was a large target he said he got an extra 4 shots because of the 2nd rank behind the fires. My question is, how did he get the extra rank shots because quarrellers dont have volley fire so only front rank can shoot i have been led to believe, could you please clarify this and direct me to the rule that states this as, i have played with dwarfs and have been pulled up regarding this? Agan great batrep love watching you guys!
From what I can tell, Large Target specifies that models can draw line of sight to it through/over other models. Usually the first rank would block line of sight for the second rank, so only first rank can fire. However this is not the case with Large Target so all ranks could fire at it.
@@TherorSilverhelm I'm not sure this I'd the case as if you read the shooting rules only the front rank can shoot unless have a specific rule such as volley fire, I think if there was another shooting unit behind the quarrellers then the front rank of that unit would be able to shoot over the unit of quarrellers because of the large target rule.
Shooting with more than 1 rank rule states only 1 rank unless exceptions which are listed as: shooting from a hill or Volley fire
Where can you buy these dwarf models?
I have yet to see a battle report that dwarfs win.
I'm not keen on the army lists that Dwarfs are taking. I think they are based on older editions of the game and not playing to new strengths.
Only 30 mins or so in so I may be proven wrong but I think 5s to hit at lign range just makes Organ guns too unreliable to be good. Cannons and trollhammers seems like the way to go for monster hunting.
Also, a brick of rangers makes from an amazing core unit. I am planning on taking 16 or more witha a rune smith as their load out makes them a terror to charge. Fully kit them out and they can take on most units at range followed up with a stand and shoot, before swinging a high number of great weapons at whatever makes it through their hail of throwing axes or bolts.
@@toro132 Take them in Open Order, then.
@@toro132They have both Open Order and Skirmishers, so they get to choose which formation to use.
@@toro132 LotR Rangers are pretty great if you need Games Workshop. Otherwise, I'd recommend Avatars of War, or Highland Miniatures.
5 Iron drakes wroth torpedo is the same as a cannon, but better and cheaper.
If you take Cinderblast Bombs, you get "Grapeshot" too.
What do you want to bring more than 4 of that you can? Dragon Ogres in units of 1. They're real real obnoxious.
I agree that it might not be necessary to limit things at this early point, but that might be the best spammable unit available to current lists.
I think 4 Gyrocopters would be useful as well.
Dwarves have -1 to follow up rolls
you dont roll for follow up
How do you get a refill for the dispell
Luka your organ guns best employed where they don’t wound on 5s
How many points was the Game?
Are black orc’s to cheap? I think there was to many orc’s on the table when you see the quality of the troops… it was an elite army not a mob.
Isn´t the dwarf King stubborn by himself?
He is.
@@MinscS2 then why in the very last break test he needed a double 1?
WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!
I find it very unintuitive that the leadership values of orcs and goblins are all over the place without rhyme or reason.
How come I never see Grimgor???
He hasn't been born yet.
😎😎
Rangers strong
Why put the ruby ring of ruin on a mage when it could be on another character? Can a character cast more then one magic missile per turn if they know two different ones?
@@grlmgor You can can cast more than 1 bound per character, but you can only cast 1 bound spell in the same phase. That's why the Anvil of Doom can only ever cast 3 of it's 4 spells, because two of them are Enchantments and are cast in the same phase.
this dude in the black shirt seems so egotistical it hurts.
They seem both to be pretty nice fellows. some of the best gaming mood i ve ever seen.