Just a quick update for folks - as of Dec 29th 2020, Wahoo has released a firmware update to fix the accuracy issues. More details here: ua-cam.com/video/r7HQqP9y15I/v-deo.html
I'm 9 minutes into the review of a $1200 smart trainer, and the feature discussed so far is whether a rubber pod is compressing or not. And then Ray just closes this part with "tennis balls are probably a better option". I nearly choked on my dinner.
@@Dcrainmaker in fact, for me it was the decision maker towards the TACX Neo 2…many thanks indeed…I was looking exactly for this kind of upgrade to my existing 8 year old setup
If you have a previous kickr, go to a hardware store and get some washing machine anti-vibration feet. They are just thick recycled rubber mats. You can put more or less under there depending on how much movement you want.
The whole reason why adapters exist is in order to EXTEND the compatibility through Interface 1 to also allow it through Interface 2. In the kickr’s case, the RJ11 port is entirely useless in and of itself - you HAVE TO buy the adapter in order to actually use the feature. It’s basically like buying a power bank that has an old serial port that you first need to buy a Serial2USB adapter for. Given that I would frankly refrain from calling this port an actual feature of the new kickr. The wired connectivity is a feature of the dongle - not the bike.
Correct. Usually a proprietry connection is used where a manufacturer wants to use their connection but an adapter can be used to convert to a different connection. In this case Wahoo are offering a connection that cannot be used by anyone unless extra cash is spent. Unless the RJ45 connection requires a significant cost per unit and so Wahoo are transferring that cost to only the customers that want it and not onto every single Kickr?
Is possible know for you knowledge, for your opinion wich trainner is more accurate? and what really you recommended? Saris H3, Elite Suito, Wahoo kikr? i want to buy my first smart trainner and i dont know to much. i want not to veri high in price but one that really value the price. Thanks for you time and recomendation.
Great video as always. I don’t think that creak is your bottom bracket. You’ll notice that the creak is not there when your standing out of the saddle. Best to rule out the 1. seat post (remove, clean regrease with carbon paste) 2 Saddle rails clean, regrease and torque 3. Rear skewer remove clean and regrease I had this issue in my Canyonand it turned out to be both the saddle rails and rear skewer. Good luck.
A took recite of the new KICKR this morning. The KICKR broke, same way as the 2018 version first time I used it (or at least it sounds the same). I actually broke when I was trying to do some heavy gear efforts.
It actually looks like the compression is actually impacted mostly by the rubber at the back/bottom. thats where the roll comes from, the feet only stops it,
Glad to hear that running changes for reliability are on recent 2018 models --- I literally just unboxed my third 2018 unit. Both of my earlier units died the same way with no power/speed. My second one was also super noisy. A pain, but Wahoo's customer service was really good both times.
My Wahoo Bolt had a small blemish in the screen and I got ahold of their tech support, they sent another one right away once I sent mine back, Seemed like awesome service, they even let me choose a different colored one for the new one.
Enjoyed the review as always. Oh the joys of bottom brackets. Wouldn't be a press fit would it ? Maybe you could do a review of options available on the market ? Are your chainrings straight? The clip makes them look bent or are they oval ?
@@markstone5390 I suspect so, it's not that old a unit. I seems to have more play than it should this week. In looking down on it, there's clearly some lateral wiggle occuring. I'm not really a BB expert. Usually I just replace it and call it done.
The cassette isn’t great, it’s a standard sun race but I found mine was noisy on sprockets 2-4, this goes away if you fit an equivalent shimano 11sp. If you have a 2020 Giant TCR disc and a few other bikes from Trek and Canyon then the thru axle adapter isn’t Compatible with the dropouts on the frame so it won’t work with those bikes. The fix is to get a spare spacer and machine a few mm off the shoulder: or get your local machine shop to turn a new one for you from alloy bar stock. Otherwise I got my V5 at new year and enjoy using it, the ERG can be caught out if you freewheel for a few seconds when adjusting a shoe etc. but as noted in the video it resets if you let it spin down and start pedalling again.
I bought the V4 refurbished (its my first one) w/ 1 year warranty for 599€ the prices are too high for V6 and i was looking for V5 near my city but the most near is like 700 km away so... finally i just taked the V4 in the offical store.
I just purchased a Kickr v5 and got it set up last night, coming from an Elite Direto that I've been training on for 4 years. A couple of things that have been troubling me that are different then the way the Direto functioned, wondering if I can work that out. I'm pairing with Apple 4k TV via Bluetooth and using Zwift. I did a quick test in ERG mode, first thing is that when I accelerate or spin up faster, the power or speed does not change in Zwift. I know ERG holds you to a certain power, but on the Direto it would show those changes (increase speed and power in Zwift) then average back down to the set power within a few seconds. Maybe this is something that can be changed in the APP? I haven't tried to play with the ERG mode smoothing or speed simulation yet. I'm hoping that will make it more like what I was used too. Second, the effort at a given power in ERG mode seams to be way off. I know the Kickr is suppose to be more accurate then the Direto, but this is like 15% - 20% difference. Example; Doing a Vo2 set of 5min x 5 ERG intervals, usually around 310w, I could barely get through the first one, and during the 2nd I had to drop the power to around 270w, and that felt more like what I was used too on the Direto. My last 20min FTP test on that trainer was 264w (2 weeks ago/ 56yrs old 77kg) which is up from 240w a few months ago. Maybe the Direto just sucked when it came to accuracy, and if that's the case I'll have to re-adjust all my workouts to match the lower power numbers that the Kickr is reporting, kind of sucks from a motivation stand point :-( My power numbers have improved outside on the bike too, but the funny thing is I've always been able to hold more power on the trainer then on the bike, a lot of people report the opposite.
Interesting, I guess when Wahoo says the tilt is 5 degrees total, they’re not joking, so it’s likely just tilt 2.5deg on one direction which pretty much looks like what’s shown in the video. I would think the reason why Wahoo didn’t make it go further is for compatibility with the Kickr Climb as tilt it further and you could really topple. Though perhaps this extra degree of movement is all what’s needed to improve the feel on the trainer for long rides without feeling like you’re rear end is bolted on a hard surface?
For the wired connectivity, I’m thinking also for using the Kickr in situations like a spin gym or e-racing as you’ll have multiple Kickrs and you might have interference issues or linking annoyances. Not sure why they don’t just use Ethernet cable as it’s thicker and should prove more durable and able to do more things in the future
Yeah, this seems like a bizarre decision for them to have made. Like... why introduce the need for an adapter that people are going to have to pay for when you could have just used an ethernet cable. It's so silly. I'm guessing the next kickr circa 2022 will have this and it will be 'revolutionary'.
Well it's more than just "using an Ethernet cable." It requires an Ethernet adapter, with an onboard processor, MAC address, and other networking elements. I agree with the value of this, but I'm pointing out that there may have been constraints with size power and integration that didn't make sense given a projected low demand for that feature. To keep costs down and reliability up, they would want to reduce physical interfaces not expand them.
Hey Dc Rainmaker love your videos, big fan! While testing the Wahoo Kickr v5 did you have any issues with compatibility with the Canyon ultimate cf sl?? I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX and It says it's not compatible with the kickr.. do you have a solution maybe or a recomendation what to do? I've seen some that put washers or grind away a few milimiters from the wahoo kickr.. thanks in advance for the response :) Keep up the good work!
So far Direto XR seems best trainer out there considering it cost 500 eur less but has improved in max gradient, power accuracy and ability to broadcast BT and ANT+ simultaneously. Only thing it does not have is wired connectivity. Maybe Im missing smth obvious, but what's the point now of getting kickr or neo, when xr so much improved?
Great in-depth review as always. Have you thought of winding the feet all the way in? The central foot appears to have a chamfer “v” profile between the grey and black material (are they different density rubber/plastic?) allowing the trainer to tip from side to side. With the outer feet wound all the way out, the outriggers are effectively taking proportionally more load, preventing the trainer from rocking. Im wondering if you wound in the outrigger feet, would it allow the central foot to take the weight and the outriggers to absorb the rock when you’re desired amount of “rock” is reached?
Yeah, I played a bit. If I pulled the feet in a bit, then I got rocking, but only because I was airgapped on both sides.So more bouncing than compression. In my case, I put the feet out all the way till they touched the ground solidly on both sides, which is supposed to be how it works. And, on concrete it does absorb more for sure.
I have a new KICKR purchased Aug 2022 and had a problem straight away with the Cadence tracking. It would jump all over the place during a workout, causing the resistance to constantly change as well - very frustrating. I just exchanged an email with support and they told me to do a Factory Spin-down. I plan to try this in the morning.
Thanks for the video. So now extra sensors are needed? Just the heart rate sensor? The Wahoo Kickr gives power, speed, and cadence on its own while giving the right resistance?
Is there any noise issue again? Do I need to send it back again and again? The nightmare is happened repeatedly on my Kickr 4. I don't trust them and I won't recommend Wahoo's prodcut to my friends anymore.
Would you recommend the Tacx Neo T2 or the new Kickr, based on your experience? Looking to upgrade my old trainer, and is indecisive between the two. Both seem to have their flaws and strengths.
neo 2t have a bearing issue....search for it and youll see a great video. I was in the same boat as you and now for sure not getting the neo 2t. Itll be kickr or H3 for cheaper for me.
@@Dcrainmaker something similar happened to me last year, on a new Stages right-side power meter crank. In my case Stages (or Shimano) didn't install the crank bolts correctly or the spider wasn't tapped correctly. Every bolt was stripped out, so it was just a matter of time before the bolts gave way. It got wobbly on the way home from a ride then the small chainring came off. I'm glad I didn't crash. To their credit, Stages replaced it free of charge.
That would be nice, I'm thinking even if it were possible, would Wahoo actually do it and potentially lose sales of the new Kickr. Then again, would someone buy a new Kickr (if they had the v4) just so they wouldn't have to perform a spindown?
@@paulinfrancis I know what you mean. I have the V4 also and the only reason I'd get a V5 is if / when this one dies (I'm actually on my 4th in 2 years) and the warranty is about to expire in December 2020. The V5 will need to be practically bulletproof for me to think about dropping not an insignificant amount of cash on it. But then again I also know people that have gone through multiple Tacx Neos. You'd think for the premium price tag the quality of these things would be so much better
I’ve just bought one of these. Everything I own is pretty much Garmin, I cannot figure out a way to get my heart rate on any apps on my Apple TV or my iPad :(. I am using a Garmin HRM which i believe is Ant+ (Had it a few years) I assumed that the Garmin would talk to the kickr and the kickr would broadcast to the apple device, but it seems it doesn’t, it just talks to the apple device. How is ant+ / Bluetooth still an issue with anything not Garmin?? Can I just get it all to talk to my Garmin 820 instead and upload to training peaks that way? I really don’t want to have to fork out for a new HRM again, I had to give up with my Polar one years ago because that wouldn’t talk to any of my Garmin stuff!
Strictly speaking the HRM's dont talk to the kickr itself (what would it do with the data?). If you're on something like Zwift, then use the companion app to link all your stuff together. I use Zwift through Apple TV and its the companion app that links it all together. Just make sure that Apple TV is also on wifi if using that
Very good review, i get a little lost with the data at the end is the over surge a real bad thing? would you recommend buying or is my money better somewhere else. stay well cheers
Not a major bad thing, but not ideal either. Sorta if one of your car windows got stuck 1cm from the top while trying to close. Probably not the end of the world, but not ideal if it dumps out. I suspect they'll get it sorted in short order.
DC Rainmaker , thanks you for your review. I am conducting research on which smart trainer I will purchase. At this time it is between the Wahoo Kicker and Tac X neo. But the question I have or you is...........what is your thought on using a carbon fiber frame “I have a Scott foil” I’ve read it’s not recommended by some bike manufacturers.
When looking at the video from the rear, a lot of the play seems to be in the frame of the kickr itself, not in the feet. Both old feet and new feet showed a decent amount of flex overall, despite the new feet visibly compressing much more than the old feet. Is a test on the hardwood floor of an apartment with sound measurement from the unit below out of the question? Also plagued by wireless dropouts. Sufferfest always has far fewer dropouts than Zwift. Just gonna say that my technical issues with my kicker (purchased in December of 2019) seem to be more of a Zwift thing than anything else. I've definitely noticed a huge issue with power surges (like, I can feel my effort spiking dramatically compared to the numbers on screen). Would connecting my Vector3 pedals get a much smoother power response on races (and fewer/no dropouts when connecting to Zwift)? I like the feel of the kickr, but overall I'm kickng myself for not getting a different smart trainer.
Has anyone tried to see if the thru-axle adapter from Tacx (part # S0040), works on the Kickr? I have a 2015 Diverge Carbon Comp that has a 135 x 12 thru-axle. So far it seems that a Tacx Neo 2T is the only trainer I can use. But I see from a number of folks the bearings keep going bad on them and Garmin doesn't care.
Another awesome video Ray! I am thinking of upgrading to eTap AXS 12 speed group set. Have you tried this on the kicker and what adjustments are required? Thanks and keep up the great work!
I haven't tried that, as I don't have an AXS bike (just a regular 11sp eTAP bike). That said, you'd simply need the Wahoo XD/XDR freehub (I think $59), and then a normal 12-speed AXS cassette. Quick and easy to swap.
Brilliant run down on the Wahoo kicker, exactly the information i was looking for. I am interested to know if you made a similar tutorial on the Tacx Neo 2 im looking for a smart trainer and was wondering which one to go for so keen to see how the Tacx preform, noise level glitches if there are any and performance. i heard their customers service is not the best, is there any truth to this rumor? I am interested in dimensions of widths for both trainers when legs open as i have limited floor space. Can you help? Many thanks
I live in Canada and I just call Wahoo Canada to get support for my device NO SUPPORT. On their phone support number, the VM simply tells you that because of Covide-19 they do not provide any more phone support and it is hang up on you. Highly recommend not buying from Wahoo Canada as you can't get support.
@@STX600full Most of the noise or vibrations is coming from the drive train and not the kickr. With a perfekt drive train setup, and a good exercise mat, it should be fine, but you now how hard it is to get that ;-). And I have it now for a year with 135h, and the core is running fine. The kickr climb died after 90h and wahoo replaced it.
How does the noise and vibration compares to the Tacx Neo (any decibel figures?)? And how does it compare with it in terms of pedaling smoothness? Tried a Tacx Neo and it was fine, now doing some research about this Kickr 5 for the upcoming indoor season ;)
Do you know if Wahoo has stated if running this trainer hardwired will resolve the current issue with Wahoo trainers not being able to operate in the same room as each other ( due to excessive signal interference)? As an aside, this would be an interesting thing to add/evaluate in general reviews ( which brands can/can't operate next to another smart trainer) , as this fact was only advertised after contacting the Wahoo help line.
There's no issues with Wahoo trainers and interference. I've been to countless events with a dozen Wahoo trainers in the room without issue. ANT+ & BLE have their own unique ID's. I'm honestly not sure what on earth Wahoo support is talking about there (since they regularly hold events themselves with Zwift and other platforms...well...pre-COVID anyway).
Its a shame everyone is reviewing a new KickR, when wahoo have not resolved issues with the old ones and expect clients to pay them to replace dodgy units. Massive thumbs down.
@@Dcrainmaker The KickR has had well documented issues with the resistance failing (effectively erg has not use) - the percentage of failures is pretty high; Wahoo replace it under warranty but if it is after one-year then Wahoo ask you to pay for a refurbished replacement. I suggest rather than invest in 'new' models they should do a bit of R&D on the existing ones.
@@nickpilgrim1966 Oh - I'm very familiar with it. I pretty much wrote the book on it (and interviewed Wahoo's CEO in a video here about it): www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/01/wahoo-ceo-details-fixes-for-issues-surrounding-kickr-2018-kickr-core.html - However, in the video at the end I discuss what Wahoo did for the existing ones. And again, I'm not hearing Wahoo asking *ANYONE* to pay for any replacement of a KICKR18/CORE.
@@Dcrainmaker thanks. Good feedback. Maybe I need to ask them again... I was offered the option of a new KickR but still expensive or a refurbished one at about half that cost. Not worth it frankly and the hassle of swapping it from Vietnam. I can still use my old one via Zwift where the power pedals can control the resistance... but that's not exactly what you bargain for! I think mine is a KickR 17 but I purchased it in 2018 and it stopped working properly in 2019.
@@Dcrainmaker My Kickr Core was defective straight out of the box - badly unbalanced flywheel causing awful vibrations through the bike. I only got it a few days ago, so their QC processes are still questionable. Its being replaced but my confidence is unfortunately low that the replacement will be ok.
Thanks, great video! I tried to change out the feet caps but only managed to yank off the rubber part. How do you change those? Also, my Kickr seems fairly loud, so I guess “quiet” is in the ears of the hearer. Some have suggested changing the cassette to a Shimano to reduce noise. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Hi Ray. Thanks for the review. Just picked up mine yesterday. Trainers seem to be the new "toilet paper". Everyone, even Wahoo. Sold out. My question is this. Could we not just use an RJ45 to RJ11 adapter? Plug the adaptor into the network port, then run a phone line to the Kickr. I just bought one from Amazon for 10 bucks. I'll check it out.
Hi Ray, great video as all of them! i’m an owner of the Kikr 2018; i was about to buy the new Trek Emonda 2021 and i’ve just red wahoo says Kikr is not compatible with new emonda. how you see this? do you think wahoo will implement something? thanks
Am I crazy or is your chain ring bent? When looking at it from the back while showing the Axis feature it looks like the chain ring has one side that isn't straight.
Hi DC Rainmaker, great vid, thx for that, short question re clearance. On my Taxc Neo 1 I cant ride in gear one as the cage on my 11 speed C is touching the plastic of the Neo. It looks that the Kickr V5 doesnt have the issue, can you confirm ? Same if you have disc brakes. Seen brakes touching the plastic cover too (currently not an issue for me as I have Rim Bs).
Wireless is crap. Wait until you are 500 feet from the top of Alpe du Zwift and your trainer drops out. Or maybe you are in a race... Or maybe you just don't want the POS to drop connection randomly. There is a power cord going to it, one more cord should be integrated into it.
One question. If this Kickr v5 is essentially the culmination of months of refinement, so an evolution, not a revolution, and the internals are essentially the same, then will the Kickr18 be getting a firmware update to include the autocalibration support that this v5 / 2020 model has?
I was wondering the same thing, but in terms of why the accuracy is suddenly so brutal in sim mode on this one if it's essentially the same as the "improved" Kickr18--is the auto-calibration throwing things off?
I'm really hoping they push a firmware update to do just that on the Kickr18. Not sure how that'd affect sales of the newer device, but it does look like most of the hardware from Kickr18 is used on this new V5, apart from the feet being included with a V5 purchase. With the Kickr18 and V5 prices being the same, you're effectively then just getting the new feet for free. So they shouldn't be creating a big Excess & Obsolete inventory problem and that firmware update would surely also restore some lost confidence in the Wahoo brand for those that have had warranty issues to deal with.
@@aiyaaz1 I don't think there are many kickr '18's in stock in most places anymore. I'm semi hoping that places try to clear them out though for the v5. Would be a good way to get a unit.
@@rishabhphukan8339 yeah definitely should be some deals to be had on Kickr18 units. I have one and love it. It is a very solid trainer and I feel no need to "upgrade" to V5 to be honest.
Just picked mine up and done a couple of rides on New York. With zwift settings at MAX I have found that the resistance feels a bit wavy or grabby. This is when the gradient is not changing, feel it at 5%, 8% and up (to 17%). Anybody else experience this?
Just a quick update for folks - as of Dec 29th 2020, Wahoo has released a firmware update to fix the accuracy issues. More details here: ua-cam.com/video/r7HQqP9y15I/v-deo.html
I'm 9 minutes into the review of a $1200 smart trainer, and the feature discussed so far is whether a rubber pod is compressing or not. And then Ray just closes this part with "tennis balls are probably a better option". I nearly choked on my dinner.
I almost cut it in editing...but, decided it was a keeper. :)
@@Dcrainmaker in fact, for me it was the decision maker towards the TACX Neo 2…many thanks indeed…I was looking exactly for this kind of upgrade to my existing 8 year old setup
If you have a previous kickr, go to a hardware store and get some washing machine anti-vibration feet. They are just thick recycled rubber mats. You can put more or less under there depending on how much movement you want.
Great idea. Have anyone tried it out?
When the Wahoo is a rocking don’t come a knocking.
Thanks for the laugh! lol
The whole reason why adapters exist is in order to EXTEND the compatibility through Interface 1 to also allow it through Interface 2. In the kickr’s case, the RJ11 port is entirely useless in and of itself - you HAVE TO buy the adapter in order to actually use the feature.
It’s basically like buying a power bank that has an old serial port that you first need to buy a Serial2USB adapter for.
Given that I would frankly refrain from calling this port an actual feature of the new kickr. The wired connectivity is a feature of the dongle - not the bike.
Correct. Usually a proprietry connection is used where a manufacturer wants to use their connection but an adapter can be used to convert to a different connection.
In this case Wahoo are offering a connection that cannot be used by anyone unless extra cash is spent.
Unless the RJ45 connection requires a significant cost per unit and so Wahoo are transferring that cost to only the customers that want it and not onto every single Kickr?
Dude... pushing out 250 watts without breaking a sweat in mid conversation.... 👍👍👍
Thanks for watching! If you're looking for piles more accuracy data, hit up my full in-depth written review here: dcra.in/KICKR2020
Is possible know for you knowledge, for your opinion wich trainner is more accurate? and what really you recommended?
Saris H3, Elite Suito, Wahoo kikr? i want to buy my first smart trainner and i dont know to much. i want not to veri high in price but one that really value the price. Thanks for you time and recomendation.
Great video as always. I don’t think that creak is your bottom bracket. You’ll notice that the creak is not there when your standing out of the saddle. Best to rule out the
1. seat post (remove, clean regrease with carbon paste)
2 Saddle rails clean, regrease and torque
3. Rear skewer remove clean and regrease
I had this issue in my Canyonand it turned out to be both the saddle rails and rear skewer.
Good luck.
Bottom bracket: “creaks”
Hambini: T R I G G E R E D
True!
😜👍
This is still the definitive video on the kickr 5, really nice job.
Thanks!
Great video, I'm contemplating getting my first ever trainer, so this has been useful.
Which one did you get?
A took recite of the new KICKR this morning. The KICKR broke, same way as the 2018 version first time I used it (or at least it sounds the same).
I actually broke when I was trying to do some heavy gear efforts.
It actually looks like the compression is actually impacted mostly by the rubber at the back/bottom. thats where the roll comes from, the feet only stops it,
Well done on the review as usual and Congrats on hitting and passing 200k mark 🎊
Thanks man - appreciate it!!!
If three months from now I don't find hundreds of kickr v5 problem videos on youtube, i might consider it.
very useful video!!!because i have study kickr 4th for a long time ,now it comes 5th .Thanks for your test!!
Thanks - appreciate it!
LOL! "...science, for the win!" Love it! Stay cool, man! Thank you, once again, for your dedication to providing information.
Thanks!
You always do a great job of explaining products and features. Thanks.
Glad to hear that running changes for reliability are on recent 2018 models --- I literally just unboxed my third 2018 unit. Both of my earlier units died the same way with no power/speed. My second one was also super noisy. A pain, but Wahoo's customer service was really good both times.
My Wahoo Bolt had a small blemish in the screen and I got ahold of their tech support, they sent another one right away once I sent mine back, Seemed like awesome service, they even let me choose a different colored one for the new one.
the Wahoo support is really good. Just wish their kickr's wouldn't go faulty so often. Am on my third one in the 2 year warranty.
Love watching your videos. Now biking around in Seattle WA but born and raised in Amsterdam
Omg, only at 14:44, when you open the website, I realized I was watching His Majesty, DC Rainmaker! 😱
Excellent concrete analysis. I'll be watching for the next instalment 😂😎✌️🇦🇺
That's what I'm hear for! I mean, here.
It’d be great if Wahoo worked on their naming conventions. 🤦♂️
Also, over 900 watt sprint and you look super relaxed at 250. Dang, your biking is coming along 👏
@@mlegrand One of these days I'll break 1,000w. I mean, for realz, not just when a trainer over-commits. :)
A 911 is still a 911 :)
Enjoyed the review as always. Oh the joys of bottom brackets. Wouldn't be a press fit would it ?
Maybe you could do a review of options available on the market ? Are your chainrings straight? The clip makes them look bent or are they oval ?
Indeed, pressfit. Sigh. I hate bottom brackets. Will take it all apart later this week.
@@Dcrainmaker are the chainrings ok ?
@@markstone5390 I suspect so, it's not that old a unit. I seems to have more play than it should this week. In looking down on it, there's clearly some lateral wiggle occuring. I'm not really a BB expert. Usually I just replace it and call it done.
I just my original 2014 Kickr wasn't a boat anchor. Dropouts and spikes are the only thing it's good for.
The cassette isn’t great, it’s a standard sun race but I found mine was noisy on sprockets 2-4, this goes away if you fit an equivalent shimano 11sp.
If you have a 2020 Giant TCR disc and a few other bikes from Trek and Canyon then the thru axle adapter isn’t Compatible with the dropouts on the frame so it won’t work with those bikes.
The fix is to get a spare spacer and machine a few mm off the shoulder: or get your local machine shop to turn a new one for you from alloy bar stock.
Otherwise I got my V5 at new year and enjoy using it, the ERG can be caught out if you freewheel for a few seconds when adjusting a shoe etc. but as noted in the video it resets if you let it spin down and start pedalling again.
Thanks Ray. Another excellent review as always. However Confucius says buy last years model. It may be cheaper and just as good.
It's about time to consider some hipmobility exercise Ray.
Probably!
Big dogs and their hips…
Top review may be tempted to get the feet adapters or tennis balls 🤔🤔
So what you're telling me is I need a tennis ball vs AXIS feet video?!?
That would actually be pretty cool 😉
I bought the V4 refurbished (its my first one) w/ 1 year warranty for 599€ the prices are too high for V6 and i was looking for V5 near my city but the most near is like 700 km away so... finally i just taked the V4 in the offical store.
I just purchased a Kickr v5 and got it set up last night, coming from an Elite Direto that I've been training on for 4 years. A couple of things that have been troubling me that are different then the way the Direto functioned, wondering if I can work that out. I'm pairing with Apple 4k TV via Bluetooth and using Zwift. I did a quick test in ERG mode, first thing is that when I accelerate or spin up faster, the power or speed does not change in Zwift. I know ERG holds you to a certain power, but on the Direto it would show those changes (increase speed and power in Zwift) then average back down to the set power within a few seconds. Maybe this is something that can be changed in the APP? I haven't tried to play with the ERG mode smoothing or speed simulation yet. I'm hoping that will make it more like what I was used too. Second, the effort at a given power in ERG mode seams to be way off. I know the Kickr is suppose to be more accurate then the Direto, but this is like 15% - 20% difference. Example; Doing a Vo2 set of 5min x 5 ERG intervals, usually around 310w, I could barely get through the first one, and during the 2nd I had to drop the power to around 270w, and that felt more like what I was used too on the Direto. My last 20min FTP test on that trainer was 264w (2 weeks ago/ 56yrs old 77kg) which is up from 240w a few months ago. Maybe the Direto just sucked when it came to accuracy, and if that's the case I'll have to re-adjust all my workouts to match the lower power numbers that the Kickr is reporting, kind of sucks from a motivation stand point :-( My power numbers have improved outside on the bike too, but the funny thing is I've always been able to hold more power on the trainer then on the bike, a lot of people report the opposite.
More impressed by the power high power you pushed without hearing you suffer.......
He his a 900 watt sprint for 8 seconds hardly something to tire over lol
Interesting, I guess when Wahoo says the tilt is 5 degrees total, they’re not joking, so it’s likely just tilt 2.5deg on one direction which pretty much looks like what’s shown in the video. I would think the reason why Wahoo didn’t make it go further is for compatibility with the Kickr Climb as tilt it further and you could really topple. Though perhaps this extra degree of movement is all what’s needed to improve the feel on the trainer for long rides without feeling like you’re rear end is bolted on a hard surface?
THANKS DC Always love your stuff. Liked!
Is your chainring bent? Also are you going to cover the new found Neo 2T "Issue" found this week?
I still don't get why they just didn't do a USB port so you could plug direct into your computer?
great review, as always.
Thanks!
For the wired connectivity, I’m thinking also for using the Kickr in situations like a spin gym or e-racing as you’ll have multiple Kickrs and you might have interference issues or linking annoyances. Not sure why they don’t just use Ethernet cable as it’s thicker and should prove more durable and able to do more things in the future
Definitely, lots of potential there.
Yeah, this seems like a bizarre decision for them to have made. Like... why introduce the need for an adapter that people are going to have to pay for when you could have just used an ethernet cable. It's so silly.
I'm guessing the next kickr circa 2022 will have this and it will be 'revolutionary'.
Well it's more than just "using an Ethernet cable." It requires an Ethernet adapter, with an onboard processor, MAC address, and other networking elements. I agree with the value of this, but I'm pointing out that there may have been constraints with size power and integration that didn't make sense given a projected low demand for that feature. To keep costs down and reliability up, they would want to reduce physical interfaces not expand them.
Hey Dc Rainmaker love your videos, big fan! While testing the Wahoo Kickr v5 did you have any issues with compatibility with the Canyon ultimate cf sl?? I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX and It says it's not compatible with the kickr.. do you have a solution maybe or a recomendation what to do? I've seen some that put washers or grind away a few milimiters from the wahoo kickr.. thanks in advance for the response :) Keep up the good work!
So far Direto XR seems best trainer out there considering it cost 500 eur less but has improved in max gradient, power accuracy and ability to broadcast BT and ANT+ simultaneously. Only thing it does not have is wired connectivity. Maybe Im missing smth obvious, but what's the point now of getting kickr or neo, when xr so much improved?
I just ordered mine :-)
Can it be used with a 8 speed HG31
Can the directo XR be used with an 8 speed HG31
who uses 8 speed bike on trainer...come on...
Great in-depth review as always. Have you thought of winding the feet all the way in? The central foot appears to have a chamfer “v” profile between the grey and black material (are they different density rubber/plastic?) allowing the trainer to tip from side to side. With the outer feet wound all the way out, the outriggers are effectively taking proportionally more load, preventing the trainer from rocking. Im wondering if you wound in the outrigger feet, would it allow the central foot to take the weight and the outriggers to absorb the rock when you’re desired amount of “rock” is reached?
Yeah, I played a bit. If I pulled the feet in a bit, then I got rocking, but only because I was airgapped on both sides.So more bouncing than compression. In my case, I put the feet out all the way till they touched the ground solidly on both sides, which is supposed to be how it works. And, on concrete it does absorb more for sure.
Man the rj11 instead of rj45 is puzzling
I have a new KICKR purchased Aug 2022 and had a problem straight away with the Cadence tracking. It would jump all over the place during a workout, causing the resistance to constantly change as well - very frustrating. I just exchanged an email with support and they told me to do a Factory Spin-down. I plan to try this in the morning.
Why did they use an RJ11 port / chipset vs. an actual RJ45 network chipset? I'm curious why they did this from an engineering perspective.
It was faster to get through manufacturing to hit this timeframe/cycle/dates.
if you could recommend 1 trainer, which would you choose? Just cause it's more expensive make it better?
Thanks for the video. So now extra sensors are needed? Just the heart rate sensor? The Wahoo Kickr gives power, speed, and cadence on its own while giving the right resistance?
Correct, when I'm Zwifting, I just now need the heart rate sensor. The kickr does all the other stats and the resistance (in ERG mode)
Why would they build a useless 80s era port into a trainer that immediately requires an adapter? Did I miss something?
check your BB， looks like your crank is shaking.
Are you going to release a 12 speed version of Shimano? I think this model is not compatible
Off topic, but is that Wattbike Atom V2 review you teased weeks back coming soon?
Daryl Mackie Yeh I’m interested to see that too
Yup - I'm waiting on a substantial firmware update to fix some ERG mode issues I can't get around. But, I might drop an audio video till then.
@@Dcrainmaker Thanks Ray - looking forward to it!
Wondering if they went RJ11 just to make *sure* folks didn't immediately assume it was a native ethernet port...
It sounds like the manuf/engineering cost was simpler there.
All the Spare RJ11 Mod heads lying around the manufacturers warehouse. “F*@! it, let’s get rid of these things”...lol
i would call wahoo pandemic quarantine version :D
How do you feel about the 2020 kickr vs the Tacx neo T2? Which one do you like better when comparing both?
I also want to know this
Is there any noise issue again? Do I need to send it back again and again? The nightmare is happened repeatedly on my Kickr 4. I don't trust them and I won't recommend Wahoo's prodcut to my friends anymore.
There was no way they could fit a RJ45 connector there that is couple of mm wider than RJ11. Sure, option to sell a $99.99 adapter is a better option.
Would you recommend the Tacx Neo T2 or the new Kickr, based on your experience? Looking to upgrade my old trainer, and is indecisive between the two. Both seem to have their flaws and strengths.
neo 2t have a bearing issue....search for it and youll see a great video. I was in the same boat as you and now for sure not getting the neo 2t. Itll be kickr or H3 for cheaper for me.
Cheers buddy! I just purchased the Kickr v5 yesterday actually. Did some more research and found that the 2T had too many flaws for me.
Awesome review Ray. Now where can we get that rad shirt?
Thanks! Here ya go (though, the sizing shown on Amazon seems weird right now): amzn.to/2JLPJbe
Your bb/front chainring is messed up - you can see it wobbling even when your bike isn't swaying - 7:20 or so for example.
Yup, whole thing is all weird. Gonna take it all apart later this week.
@@Dcrainmaker something similar happened to me last year, on a new Stages right-side power meter crank. In my case Stages (or Shimano) didn't install the crank bolts correctly or the spider wasn't tapped correctly. Every bolt was stripped out, so it was just a matter of time before the bolts gave way. It got wobbly on the way home from a ride then the small chainring came off. I'm glad I didn't crash. To their credit, Stages replaced it free of charge.
RJ11 port, seriously.
Still and always a fan
If the price is the same, which one, this Kickr or Neo2T is better for reliability, tech support and fast response in ERG?...
Will there be a firmware update to older Kickrs to do away with the spin down?
That would be nice, I'm thinking even if it were possible, would Wahoo actually do it and potentially lose sales of the new Kickr. Then again, would someone buy a new Kickr (if they had the v4) just so they wouldn't have to perform a spindown?
@@daveb5375 I fall in that category. I have the V4, but I’m not about to spend the money on a V5 just to not have to do a spin down once a week.
@@paulinfrancis I know what you mean. I have the V4 also and the only reason I'd get a V5 is if / when this one dies (I'm actually on my 4th in 2 years) and the warranty is about to expire in December 2020. The V5 will need to be practically bulletproof for me to think about dropping not an insignificant amount of cash on it. But then again I also know people that have gone through multiple Tacx Neos. You'd think for the premium price tag the quality of these things would be so much better
What would be the best Wahoo trainer for a 29inch Mtb? Looking for a winter training option.
Not having a go ,this seems to happen on reviews with new equipment,first thing I want to know is the price
I’ve just bought one of these. Everything I own is pretty much Garmin, I cannot figure out a way to get my heart rate on any apps on my Apple TV or my iPad :(. I am using a Garmin HRM which i believe is Ant+ (Had it a few years) I assumed that the Garmin would talk to the kickr and the kickr would broadcast to the apple device, but it seems it doesn’t, it just talks to the apple device. How is ant+ / Bluetooth still an issue with anything not Garmin?? Can I just get it all to talk to my Garmin 820 instead and upload to training peaks that way? I really don’t want to have to fork out for a new HRM again, I had to give up with my Polar one years ago because that wouldn’t talk to any of my Garmin stuff!
Strictly speaking the HRM's dont talk to the kickr itself (what would it do with the data?). If you're on something like Zwift, then use the companion app to link all your stuff together. I use Zwift through Apple TV and its the companion app that links it all together. Just make sure that Apple TV is also on wifi if using that
Great video thank you! Are you going to do an in-depth review on the new Wattbike Atom Next Gen?
Yup! Just waiting on final firmware to fix some ERG mode issues I'm having.
the use 2 rubber balls and a piece of .5" pipe for full rocker motion.don't use the factory feet
Cool review. @dc_rainmaker what is that speaker / traffic light looking device in the corner of the room with the green, red, and yellow smiley faces?
Very good review, i get a little lost with the data at the end is the over surge a real bad thing? would you recommend buying or is my money better somewhere else. stay well cheers
Not a major bad thing, but not ideal either. Sorta if one of your car windows got stuck 1cm from the top while trying to close. Probably not the end of the world, but not ideal if it dumps out. I suspect they'll get it sorted in short order.
DC Rainmaker , thanks you for your review. I am conducting research on which smart trainer I will purchase. At this time it is between the Wahoo Kicker and Tac X neo. But the question I have or you is...........what is your thought on using a carbon fiber frame “I have a Scott foil” I’ve read it’s not recommended by some bike manufacturers.
Does it come with cassette?
Great review, thanks you
When looking at the video from the rear, a lot of the play seems to be in the frame of the kickr itself, not in the feet. Both old feet and new feet showed a decent amount of flex overall, despite the new feet visibly compressing much more than the old feet.
Is a test on the hardwood floor of an apartment with sound measurement from the unit below out of the question?
Also plagued by wireless dropouts. Sufferfest always has far fewer dropouts than Zwift.
Just gonna say that my technical issues with my kicker (purchased in December of 2019) seem to be more of a Zwift thing than anything else. I've definitely noticed a huge issue with power surges (like, I can feel my effort spiking dramatically compared to the numbers on screen). Would connecting my Vector3 pedals get a much smoother power response on races (and fewer/no dropouts when connecting to Zwift)?
I like the feel of the kickr, but overall I'm kickng myself for not getting a different smart trainer.
Unfortunately I don't have any people I know with two-level wooden floor apartments at this point. Maybe soon...
If your using Bluetooth and have the option on a windows machine id def reccomend a good ant+ adapter
Has anyone tried to see if the thru-axle adapter from Tacx (part # S0040), works on the Kickr? I have a 2015 Diverge Carbon Comp that has a 135 x 12 thru-axle. So far it seems that a Tacx Neo 2T is the only trainer I can use. But I see from a number of folks the bearings keep going bad on them and Garmin doesn't care.
Another awesome video Ray! I am thinking of upgrading to eTap AXS 12 speed group set. Have you tried this on the kicker and what adjustments are required? Thanks and keep up the great work!
I haven't tried that, as I don't have an AXS bike (just a regular 11sp eTAP bike). That said, you'd simply need the Wahoo XD/XDR freehub (I think $59), and then a normal 12-speed AXS cassette. Quick and easy to swap.
DC Rainmaker thanks so much for your quick response. Keep up the great work. Best- Fraser
Hi! Do you know if this version simulates different types of Roads?
Brilliant run down on the Wahoo kicker, exactly the information i was looking for. I am interested to know if you made a similar tutorial on the Tacx Neo 2 im looking for a smart trainer and was wondering which one to go for so keen to see how the Tacx preform, noise level glitches if there are any and performance. i heard their customers service is not the best, is there any truth to this rumor? I am interested in dimensions of widths for both trainers when legs open as i have limited floor space. Can you help? Many thanks
Please review Samsung galaxy watch 3
Please
I live in Canada and I just call Wahoo Canada to get support for my device NO SUPPORT. On their phone support number, the VM simply tells you that because of Covide-19 they do not provide any more phone support and it is hang up on you.
Highly recommend not buying from Wahoo Canada as you can't get support.
Thank you Wahoo, no reason to update from my Kick Core saves me money :-)
Hi, no problem with your kickr core ? what about the noise ? is it enough silent to ride in apartment ? thx :)
@@STX600full Most of the noise or vibrations is coming from the drive train and not the kickr. With a perfekt drive train setup, and a good exercise mat, it should be fine, but you now how hard it is to get that ;-). And I have it now for a year with 135h, and the core is running fine. The kickr climb died after 90h and wahoo replaced it.
@@wamote6867 Thank you! Sounds like the Kickr core is a good replacement for my tacx smart flow (wheel-on HT)... Now I need to find one !
How does the noise and vibration compares to the Tacx Neo (any decibel figures?)? And how does it compare with it in terms of pedaling smoothness?
Tried a Tacx Neo and it was fine, now doing some research about this Kickr 5 for the upcoming indoor season ;)
Do you know if Wahoo has stated if running this trainer hardwired will resolve the current issue with Wahoo trainers not being able to operate in the same room as each other ( due to excessive signal interference)?
As an aside, this would be an interesting thing to add/evaluate in general reviews ( which brands can/can't operate next to another smart trainer) , as this fact was only advertised after contacting the Wahoo help line.
There's no issues with Wahoo trainers and interference. I've been to countless events with a dozen Wahoo trainers in the room without issue. ANT+ & BLE have their own unique ID's. I'm honestly not sure what on earth Wahoo support is talking about there (since they regularly hold events themselves with Zwift and other platforms...well...pre-COVID anyway).
Its a shame everyone is reviewing a new KickR, when wahoo have not resolved issues with the old ones and expect clients to pay them to replace dodgy units. Massive thumbs down.
I’ve never heard of Wahoo requiring people to replace defective ones. A number of people have had 3-4 units replaced, all covered by Wahoo.
@@Dcrainmaker The KickR has had well documented issues with the resistance failing (effectively erg has not use) - the percentage of failures is pretty high; Wahoo replace it under warranty but if it is after one-year then Wahoo ask you to pay for a refurbished replacement. I suggest rather than invest in 'new' models they should do a bit of R&D on the existing ones.
@@nickpilgrim1966 Oh - I'm very familiar with it. I pretty much wrote the book on it (and interviewed Wahoo's CEO in a video here about it): www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/01/wahoo-ceo-details-fixes-for-issues-surrounding-kickr-2018-kickr-core.html - However, in the video at the end I discuss what Wahoo did for the existing ones. And again, I'm not hearing Wahoo asking *ANYONE* to pay for any replacement of a KICKR18/CORE.
@@Dcrainmaker thanks. Good feedback. Maybe I need to ask them again... I was offered the option of a new KickR but still expensive or a refurbished one at about half that cost. Not worth it frankly and the hassle of swapping it from Vietnam. I can still use my old one via Zwift where the power pedals can control the resistance... but that's not exactly what you bargain for! I think mine is a KickR 17 but I purchased it in 2018 and it stopped working properly in 2019.
@@Dcrainmaker My Kickr Core was defective straight out of the box - badly unbalanced flywheel causing awful vibrations through the bike. I only got it a few days ago, so their QC processes are still questionable. Its being replaced but my confidence is unfortunately low that the replacement will be ok.
Thanks, great video! I tried to change out the feet caps but only managed to yank off the rubber part. How do you change those? Also, my Kickr seems fairly loud, so I guess “quiet” is in the ears of the hearer. Some have suggested changing the cassette to a Shimano to reduce noise. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Hi Ray. Thanks for the review. Just picked up mine yesterday. Trainers seem to be the new "toilet paper". Everyone, even Wahoo. Sold out. My question is this. Could we not just use an RJ45 to RJ11 adapter? Plug the adaptor into the network port, then run a phone line to the Kickr. I just bought one from Amazon for 10 bucks. I'll check it out.
Did you test the adapter ?
nice video mate, could you tell me more informations about your tshirt its amazing thanx in advance
Hi Ray, great video as all of them! i’m an owner of the Kikr 2018; i was about to buy the new Trek Emonda 2021 and i’ve just red wahoo says Kikr is not compatible with new emonda. how you see this? do you think wahoo will implement something? thanks
Am I crazy or is your chain ring bent? When looking at it from the back while showing the Axis feature it looks like the chain ring has one side that isn't straight.
Will a fw update enable auto calibration in 2018 Kicker?
I haven't heard anything yet.
Is this Better value for the money over the kikr core?
Hi DC Rainmaker, great vid, thx for that, short question re clearance. On my Taxc Neo 1 I cant ride in gear one as the cage on my 11 speed C is touching the plastic of the Neo. It looks that the Kickr V5 doesnt have the issue, can you confirm ? Same if you have disc brakes. Seen brakes touching the plastic cover too (currently not an issue for me as I have Rim Bs).
Hi I have the Rapid Axle Tech thru axle, will this work for the kickr?
tell us how it works Ray
A question, how do you brake to stop the rear part? Because you can’t use the bike brakes...
Cyclists: We want wireless, no cables!! It is 2020!
Wahoo: RJ11 Connector ? From 1980?
🤣😂
yea cause putting a Cat5 cable connection on the back would have been REALLY hard for some reason?! LOL
Many people plagued with dropouts and poor connection actually dream about cable option.
@@MrBrwnchknbrwncow seriously... what is require is a USB cable to connect it to your PC.
Wireless is crap. Wait until you are 500 feet from the top of Alpe du Zwift and your trainer drops out. Or maybe you are in a race... Or maybe you just don't want the POS to drop connection randomly. There is a power cord going to it, one more cord should be integrated into it.
But a telephone wire and a $100 pos converter.
Thanks!
One question. If this Kickr v5 is essentially the culmination of months of refinement, so an evolution, not a revolution, and the internals are essentially the same, then will the Kickr18 be getting a firmware update to include the autocalibration support that this v5 / 2020 model has?
I was wondering the same thing, but in terms of why the accuracy is suddenly so brutal in sim mode on this one if it's essentially the same as the "improved" Kickr18--is the auto-calibration throwing things off?
I'm really hoping they push a firmware update to do just that on the Kickr18. Not sure how that'd affect sales of the newer device, but it does look like most of the hardware from Kickr18 is used on this new V5, apart from the feet being included with a V5 purchase. With the Kickr18 and V5 prices being the same, you're effectively then just getting the new feet for free. So they shouldn't be creating a big Excess & Obsolete inventory problem and that firmware update would surely also restore some lost confidence in the Wahoo brand for those that have had warranty issues to deal with.
@@aiyaaz1
I don't think there are many kickr '18's in stock in most places anymore. I'm semi hoping that places try to clear them out though for the v5. Would be a good way to get a unit.
@@rishabhphukan8339 yeah definitely should be some deals to be had on Kickr18 units. I have one and love it. It is a very solid trainer and I feel no need to "upgrade" to V5 to be honest.
@@aiyaaz1
My lbs has some. I'll ask!
Is the pad at the back too solid therefore reducing the ability of the legs to compress?
I've had 3 kickr's, not one of them was accurate, nor consistent. Always overread by 10% or more. "Good" for zwifting tho
Dang mine is pretty much +- a few watts off my Pm
Just picked mine up and done a couple of rides on New York. With zwift settings at MAX I have found that the resistance feels a bit wavy or grabby. This is when the gradient is not changing, feel it at 5%, 8% and up (to 17%). Anybody else experience this?