I’ve had a belt driven Alfine setup on a commuter for the last 8-9yrs. I can’t say enough good about it. Mine had a wheel issue and kept popping spokes, but I finally fixed that. Otherwise it just works day in day out. No hassles. No fuss. As one who’s thought about a custom Rohloff setup for years, I’ve been interested by the Pinion option as well and interested in how it really works for more enthusiast oriented off road riding.
Really pleased to see belt drive getting some love here - need for frame breaks aside, I wish it were on many more bikes. My Avanti Inc. 2 (an NZ brand) has been an awesome commuter with an 8-speed Alfine hub on it. Zero hassle. Zerode is another NZ brand who build beautiful MTBs that are Pinion/Gates focused. Looking forward to seeing the ride report!
Excellent video, Ben! Of course, we've heard lots about the Gates / Pinion setup from your fellow Boulder resident who shall remain unnamed, LOL. For a future video, I'd very much like to hear your thoughts on Canyon's Grizl ON ebike. I do nearly 100% of my ~4K per year on an Aeroad (and love it!), but staring 70 in the face, am getting interested in an ebike for when 100% of the energy just isn't there, for both road and light gravel / off-road forays. Love the channel, one of the very best. Cheers, Brian
Could you please share the YT channel of the other person with a Pinion. I would love to hear more about them from someone w lots of experience. Thank you.
We have two Priority Gemini’s each with about 2k miles. We love them, but they are not maintenance free. Check your headset. Both came out of the box bone dry. The wheels are also disposable. Per my LBS they are not serviceable. One of the bikes front hubs went after 1k miles. I had a set of Oynx single speed wheels made and love them. Lastly, I’ve found that I need to check/re-torque the pinion cranks every 300-400 miles. All of that said, I love my Gemini and would buy it again. It’s okay as a Gravel bike but an excellent training bike.
I’m intrigued with the Gates belt drive and think the Pinion combo is pretty smart for a solid touring or bike packing rig. Imagine combining with Classified hubs for an additional range. Personally I was thinking of doing a parts bin build just with the Gates and use some of my SS specific hubs to build up a beach cruiser, just for kicks and fun on my So Cal beach path. Of course finding a frame that has the ability to run a belt is the most expensive part not in my bin.
Surly may have something to fill that gap! They def have one frame that’ll do just about any drive train imaginable, but I can’t remember which one off the top of my head.
I think it's definitely the solution for something like a commuter bike or bike to just ride around town that you don't mind getting a little mucky. Like the first bike you showed us.
Great job on braving the elements…,Lookokg forward to your review on this somewhat interesting topic, couid we head into a chain less biking world?…stay warm Beanie Ben.
Gates are great for commuting, but i would be cautious of using one in muddy conditions. As the dirt can become trapped in the “V” profile of the belt, this can then cause rapid wear.
Would be a good bike to use for the Old Man Winter race that's coming up - especially if it's as muddy as last year. Chains and gears lose a ton of efficiency once they get muddy.
The Pinion is something like 90% efficient. My Gemini is also approximately 30lb with pedals and saddlebag. I don’t think it’s ever faster than a geared bike.
I hope you're as critical as possible about the shifting feel on the pinion, I've seen some reviews of it in a mtb setting, but in general speeds are lower and pedaling is more sporadic. I know they've improved the feeling with the new electronic system, but I haven't seen anyone talk about how it shifts in a setting where you're putting down constant power. The idea of having to stop my pedal stroke entirely to shift during a gravel race is a huge turnoff.
I have a 600adx and Gemini. For me, the electric shifting is a giant leap forward. Most shifts occur in the power transition between legs. If you really push through the bottom of the stroke the Gemini will try to shift for 3-4 seconds. Half of the time it successfully shifts on the next stroke. If it times out then it makes a noise that it failed. I just cut the follow through of the stroke but it is not a full loss of power. I find that I’m about as thoughtfully about shifting as if I were on a geared bike. I do shift sooner in climbs knowing that it could take a second or two to shift
I had a Spot Acme ten years ago with a similar Gates Belt Drive paired to a Shimano Alfine 11 internal hub. Probably the best commuter bike I’ve ever owned. Never worried about riding in snow and other poor conditions. It was a little more fiddly when I had to change the rear tire, but not as bad a many people make it out to be. The biggest drawbacks were: gear ratio, drivetrain power loss, and weight (especially the rear bias). It looks like the pinion drivetrain fixes a few of those issues. I did absolutely nothing to it over 15,000 miles except for tires and pads. I never even washed the thing until I sold it. A big perk was a super clean drivetrain that wouldn’t get my slacks dirty. It was also crazy silent….like ninja stealthy. 🥷 My commuting changed so I ended up selling it and using a Brompton as my commuter.
What's it like maintaining the bottom bracket bearings (assuming it still uses a traditional spindle)? Is it as easy as replacing T47/BSA threaded cups? Some oil maybe? Would you do 2025 SBTGRVL and Unbound on this bike? tyty :)
Most N+1’ers who ride in all weather (Colorado or Ontario, Canada or elsewhere) probably have room for a winter/epic mud/all-weather rig that doesn’t take a big beating in foul weather. Curious to know how your testing goes.
Curious about your findings as I use my gravel bike for commuting most of the time. Less maintenance with the downside of a little extra weight could be an option for me.
Im really interested in the in the pinion gearbox but don't know how it would feel like pedaling wise, I usually run a 46 or 48 front chainring with an 10 cog in the back, would you says it is comparable to that on the faster end or does it feel like a smaller chainring?
The gearbox has 600% gear range which is I believe about a 120% more than your standard 2x. You can also order different front and rear cogs to fine tune the range. The Gemini is geared like a gravel bike so it doesn’t have the highest top end. I have a second cog which cost about $90
Why are bike chains used instead of belt drive 🤔 For me it's obvious. Continuous income for the bike industry. Besides, with a pinion gear box its infinite choices in gearing
I really like the look of the whole Pivot system (especially belt driven)....The electronic shifters, not-so-much!....I wonder if any think-tank has surveyed Cyclists to see what may be the ratio of 100% pure mechanical cyclists VS those who are OK with electronic shifters, drivetrains etc?..........Everyone I know thinks the whole electronic thing on bicycles is kinda Yuk!
well, UA-cam reviewers favor electronic shifting with Pinion. with the cable-pull you have to stop putting out power to allow shifting, whereas with the electric shifting it smartly shifts when the cranks are at the 12o'clock position (i.e. low torque input). so the shifting is crisper. also it allows for better shifter choices. there simply weren't any good road shifter options that were compatible with the dual-cable Pinion cable-pull. but I agree, especially for bike-packing adventures, I'd prefer a nuke-proof cable-pull option. I mean, it is the ultimate doomsday transmission after all. the battery just ruins that.
The shifting is fantastic. I have both a 600adx and Gemini. The Gemini shifts under load much more seamlessly. The battery also lasts for about a month.
I’m here for more videos about things outside your wheelhouse of fast gravel and racing! Love your work in general, too.
The original gates belt on my tandem has 11,455 miles and counting. About once a year I’ll spray with silicone for the heck of it.
I’ve had a belt driven Alfine setup on a commuter for the last 8-9yrs. I can’t say enough good about it. Mine had a wheel issue and kept popping spokes, but I finally fixed that. Otherwise it just works day in day out. No hassles. No fuss.
As one who’s thought about a custom Rohloff setup for years, I’ve been interested by the Pinion option as well and interested in how it really works for more enthusiast oriented off road riding.
Really pleased to see belt drive getting some love here - need for frame breaks aside, I wish it were on many more bikes. My Avanti Inc. 2 (an NZ brand) has been an awesome commuter with an 8-speed Alfine hub on it. Zero hassle. Zerode is another NZ brand who build beautiful MTBs that are Pinion/Gates focused. Looking forward to seeing the ride report!
Excellent video, Ben! Of course, we've heard lots about the Gates / Pinion setup from your fellow Boulder resident who shall remain unnamed, LOL. For a future video, I'd very much like to hear your thoughts on Canyon's Grizl ON ebike. I do nearly 100% of my ~4K per year on an Aeroad (and love it!), but staring 70 in the face, am getting interested in an ebike for when 100% of the energy just isn't there, for both road and light gravel / off-road forays. Love the channel, one of the very best. Cheers, Brian
Could you please share the YT channel of the other person with a Pinion. I would love to hear more about them from someone w lots of experience. Thank you.
Very cool, it will be interesting to hear your impressions of riding this on your usual haunts in lieu of a standard chain drive.
We have two Priority Gemini’s each with about 2k miles. We love them, but they are not maintenance free. Check your headset. Both came out of the box bone dry. The wheels are also disposable. Per my LBS they are not serviceable. One of the bikes front hubs went after 1k miles. I had a set of Oynx single speed wheels made and love them. Lastly, I’ve found that I need to check/re-torque the pinion cranks every 300-400 miles. All of that said, I love my Gemini and would buy it again. It’s okay as a Gravel bike but an excellent training bike.
You should get in contact with Ryan Duzer. That may make an interesting video with contrasting applications.
I’m intrigued with the Gates belt drive and think the Pinion combo is pretty smart for a solid touring or bike packing rig. Imagine combining with Classified hubs for an additional range. Personally I was thinking of doing a parts bin build just with the Gates and use some of my SS specific hubs to build up a beach cruiser, just for kicks and fun on my So Cal beach path. Of course finding a frame that has the ability to run a belt is the most expensive part not in my bin.
Surly may have something to fill that gap! They def have one frame that’ll do just about any drive train imaginable, but I can’t remember which one off the top of my head.
I think it's definitely the solution for something like a commuter bike or bike to just ride around town that you don't mind getting a little mucky. Like the first bike you showed us.
cool bike, i like the future proof idea of ti bike and long lasting gear box.
Great job on braving the elements…,Lookokg forward to your review on this somewhat interesting topic, couid we head into a chain less biking world?…stay warm Beanie Ben.
Very cool. I have wondered about these bikes.
5:54 I find you can pull the rear wheel as fast on the Gemini as any thru-axle.
Gates are great for commuting, but i would be cautious of using one in muddy conditions. As the dirt can become trapped in the “V” profile of the belt, this can then cause rapid wear.
8:21 I charge the gearbox when I charge my head unit. I don’t think I’ve seen it below 80%.
For the average rider a gates carbon belt drive bike with appropriate gearing is the best setup. Change my mind.
Would be a good bike to use for the Old Man Winter race that's coming up - especially if it's as muddy as last year. Chains and gears lose a ton of efficiency once they get muddy.
The Pinion is something like 90% efficient. My Gemini is also approximately 30lb with pedals and saddlebag. I don’t think it’s ever faster than a geared bike.
I hope you're as critical as possible about the shifting feel on the pinion, I've seen some reviews of it in a mtb setting, but in general speeds are lower and pedaling is more sporadic. I know they've improved the feeling with the new electronic system, but I haven't seen anyone talk about how it shifts in a setting where you're putting down constant power. The idea of having to stop my pedal stroke entirely to shift during a gravel race is a huge turnoff.
I have a 600adx and Gemini. For me, the electric shifting is a giant leap forward. Most shifts occur in the power transition between legs. If you really push through the bottom of the stroke the Gemini will try to shift for 3-4 seconds. Half of the time it successfully shifts on the next stroke. If it times out then it makes a noise that it failed. I just cut the follow through of the stroke but it is not a full loss of power. I find that I’m about as thoughtfully about shifting as if I were on a geared bike. I do shift sooner in climbs knowing that it could take a second or two to shift
I had a Spot Acme ten years ago with a similar Gates Belt Drive paired to a Shimano Alfine 11 internal hub. Probably the best commuter bike I’ve ever owned. Never worried about riding in snow and other poor conditions. It was a little more fiddly when I had to change the rear tire, but not as bad a many people make it out to be.
The biggest drawbacks were: gear ratio, drivetrain power loss, and weight (especially the rear bias). It looks like the pinion drivetrain fixes a few of those issues.
I did absolutely nothing to it over 15,000 miles except for tires and pads. I never even washed the thing until I sold it. A big perk was a super clean drivetrain that wouldn’t get my slacks dirty. It was also crazy silent….like ninja stealthy. 🥷
My commuting changed so I ended up selling it and using a Brompton as my commuter.
What's it like maintaining the bottom bracket bearings (assuming it still uses a traditional spindle)? Is it as easy as replacing T47/BSA threaded cups? Some oil maybe? Would you do 2025 SBTGRVL and Unbound on this bike? tyty :)
Most N+1’ers who ride in all weather (Colorado or Ontario, Canada or elsewhere) probably have room for a winter/epic mud/all-weather rig that doesn’t take a big beating in foul weather. Curious to know how your testing goes.
Curious about your findings as I use my gravel bike for commuting most of the time. Less maintenance with the downside of a little extra weight could be an option for me.
Thank you! I will report back in a few weeks.
I want a belt drive for a winter/wet weather riding.
I never thought you'll have a trecking bike.
Im really interested in the in the pinion gearbox but don't know how it would feel like pedaling wise, I usually run a 46 or 48 front chainring with an 10 cog in the back, would you says it is comparable to that on the faster end or does it feel like a smaller chainring?
The gearbox has 600% gear range which is I believe about a 120% more than your standard 2x. You can also order different front and rear cogs to fine tune the range. The Gemini is geared like a gravel bike so it doesn’t have the highest top end. I have a second cog which cost about $90
I always hear the argument that chains are a lot more efficient than belt drive, but never seen any proof. Any truth to that?
Yes, but that actually means a drive with a cassette and a derailleur is more efficient vs an IGH integrated gear hub, not chain vs belt
once you figure out how to get the cable back on, it's not the hardest thing to reinstall. It is fiddly, but not technically difficult
Froozen wheels good.
Trekking bike of course
Rust? Patina 🙂
Why are bike chains used instead of belt drive 🤔 For me it's obvious. Continuous income for the bike industry. Besides, with a pinion gear box its infinite choices in gearing
I really like the look of the whole Pivot system (especially belt driven)....The electronic shifters, not-so-much!....I wonder if any think-tank has surveyed Cyclists to see what may be the ratio of 100% pure mechanical cyclists VS those who are OK with electronic shifters, drivetrains etc?..........Everyone I know thinks the whole electronic thing on bicycles is kinda Yuk!
well, UA-cam reviewers favor electronic shifting with Pinion. with the cable-pull you have to stop putting out power to allow shifting, whereas with the electric shifting it smartly shifts when the cranks are at the 12o'clock position (i.e. low torque input). so the shifting is crisper. also it allows for better shifter choices. there simply weren't any good road shifter options that were compatible with the dual-cable Pinion cable-pull.
but I agree, especially for bike-packing adventures, I'd prefer a nuke-proof cable-pull option. I mean, it is the ultimate doomsday transmission after all. the battery just ruins that.
The shifting is fantastic. I have both a 600adx and Gemini. The Gemini shifts under load much more seamlessly. The battery also lasts for about a month.