Sauron killed 2136 points of hobbits. Without magic. Without banner. I think this shows how insanely efficient Sauron is, and how thankfull we should be that that there are so many scenarios with objectives
He was fighting against 4 points models with F1 S2 D3, but in all fairness, it would be mechanically the same if he had been fighting anything with up to F8 (since he'd still be beating them with his 9), S3 (since that still wounds him only on 6/6) and D6 (since he still wounds that on 3+ with S8). So it would had been the same if they had all been elf warriors, as long as they didn't have spears.
Whilst sauron is a tank most games don't last enough turns for him to be able to make his points back unless your opponent specifically tries to kill sauron by charging everything in
Actually, they gave the hobbits too much credit. S2 literally can’t hurt defense 10. 6x6s don’t wound. Sauron would literally never die in this fight. Edit: disregard. The hobbits used piercing strike.
I know like, realistically sauron was using his big mace or whatever, but I reaaaally want to believe that every time he took down a hobbit he was actually just punting them into the distance, and it was actually only like 100 hobbits total but they kept running back to the fight and eventually his legs got too tired.
This is a hilarious video idea. The only time I’ve played against Sauron it was retrieve the prize and he picked the prize up. Brutal game as everyone tried to kill Sauron and he smashed everyone.
Great video, but you forgot an important rule. Terror. Chances are that not all those hobbits will be able to charge Sauron. And that can make a huge difference, if Sauron is only fighting say 3 at a time, he might not be killing as many, or at least not as many as quickly. But also it makes it harder for the Hobbits to take wounds as they can't always rely on huge numbers of dice rolls, but also, Sauron might not get trapped every time if say only 1 Hobbit successfully charges. I see why you didn't do it (if you purposefully chose to avoid terror) because it would take like 2-3 times longer. But its definitely worth considering that the outcome could have been radically different had you played with terror
Thanks for the comment. If we had been playing with terror a ring of hobbits 3" away would have surrounded Sauron giving them several opportunities each turn to charge in. This would have given roughly 20 opportunities to pass terror checks each turn which would almost always result in 6-8 hobbits in combat with him. It would have made a difference particularly in turns after Sauron lost the fight because hobbits that fail could block space for other hobbits. But overall for the additional length and complexity we didn't think it was necessary
This was hilarious, my kids just started playing over new years and actually asked this question so i'm playing this for them when theyre home from school XD
Very entertaining, this is the sort of solo game I would have during school holidays. Did you consider making the hobbits take courage tests for charging Sauron ? Imagine having to roll eight pairs of dice every turn for that, grim.
Id be interested in seeing how many Numenorean adjacent models Sauron can kill. How deadly was he really on the battlefield during the first war of the ring?
This was a really cool video and good idea for content! I backed your last two projects. I hope to back this one too. Not sure my 3d printer will be able to handle these, though. They may be too tall for me.
@ConquestCreations Hello, I am a software engineer, and I'd like to write a program to run this simulation a million times, and see what the stats are (min, max, average, median). Unfortunately, I don't play LotR:SBG, though I am a wargamer. This is what I was able to glean from the video, could someone please fill in the gaps for me? To see who gets to attack, Sauron rolls 4d6, hobbits roll 8d6; high roller gets to attack, Sauron wins ties. It looks like this is the single highest die, not the sum, is this correct? Sauron gets 8 attacks, hitting on 3+ Hobbits get 16 attacks, hitting on 6 followed by a 6 Resolving hits on Sauron: If it's the last wound, he has a 2+ save. He can spend a Might to reroll this, starting with 3 Might. I don't know how to read the statbar, is his starting number of wounds 5 or 6? Resolving hits on hobbits: They die. Thank you!
Doing the math behind this: The average number of hobbits killed would be ~482.3. The median number of Hobbits killed would be ~330.7. Hobbits have a ~41.06% chance to win the fight, and need 28 wounds to kill Sauron on average, causing ~4/9 of a wound on average on a win with 16 strikes, it would take ~63 victories for the Hobbits to kill Sauron. In that time, Sauron would win ~90-91 rounds (~153.4 rounds average), killing ~5.333 hobbits in each win. The median number of wounds needed is ~19.2, so in over half of the tests, Sauron would go down after ~43.2 hobbit victories, during which, Sauron would win ~62 combats. As you can guess, the standard deviation here is quite large, as it could easily take an extra 10+ wounds for Sauron to go down. The result in the video of 532 hobbits is only a bit higher than the average at 532 dead hobbits, and well within expected deviation. This test had very close to the median number of expected ring saves, but the hobbits causing significantly less successful wounds, winning less combats, and/or Sauron killing a bit more than the expected number of hobbits, resulting in very close to the average expected number of rounds.
This is so wierd that i find this video today. Was literally on about how many hobbits could you take for points of Sauron. Train of thought led me to thinking of this exact thing. Least now I know lol.
How long did this take? I hope you gave up moving the hobbits into base contact and as casualties. In theory you could do this with just 8 hobbit models by keeping Sauron surrounded and make note of the hobbit deaths.
It didn't actually take too long in the end. We were probably at about an hour and a half. We did give up on moving them and intentionally didn't need to do terror checks because that would have added so much time for so little gain
Can't the ones in the back all throw rocks or have any ranged attacks? Not familiar with this game but I feel like this should be at least possible to help.
Shame Sauron isn’t typically that good in actually battles. Find he gets nullified quit easily by some hero’s like Gil galad etc and gets tied up easily. Never seen him deal real damage in a battle. Not like an Azog or bolg eyc
I've seen him used well but haven't seen him at the top of a tournament yet. He takes up a lot of points and can be bogged down just killing 2 of 3 troops per turn. I'm interested in running him just to see how I go with him
Haven’t watched it yet, but S2 can’t hurt D10. Edit: I have watched it, and you guys unfortunately missed the mark on the wound table. Sauron literally can’t be wounded in this fight.
Thanks for the comment, as stated in the video we decided that all the hobbits would be armed with axes and using the piercing strike special strike which gives them +1 strength
This is like asking how many toddlers you could beat in a fight lotr edition
Its a recreation of the Jonestown massacre.
"How many Hobbits can Sauron kill?"
"How many Hobbits are there in the Shire?"
Sauron killed 2136 points of hobbits. Without magic. Without banner. I think this shows how insanely efficient Sauron is, and how thankfull we should be that that there are so many scenarios with objectives
He was fighting against 4 points models with F1 S2 D3, but in all fairness, it would be mechanically the same if he had been fighting anything with up to F8 (since he'd still be beating them with his 9), S3 (since that still wounds him only on 6/6) and D6 (since he still wounds that on 3+ with S8). So it would had been the same if they had all been elf warriors, as long as they didn't have spears.
Whilst sauron is a tank most games don't last enough turns for him to be able to make his points back unless your opponent specifically tries to kill sauron by charging everything in
They also did not make terror checks, with that he would have killed even more(even if it would have taken more time /rounds to do so)
Actually, they gave the hobbits too much credit. S2 literally can’t hurt defense 10. 6x6s don’t wound. Sauron would literally never die in this fight.
Edit: disregard. The hobbits used piercing strike.
@@giovdb axes make Hobbits strength 3
My favorite part of this is seeing the pain behind both of their eyes as they realize that they might be stuck rolling those dice forever.
There was a moment of panic hahaha
@@ConquestCreations how long did it take you guys to finish this little exercise of hilariousness?
My favorite part of the books. When Sauron lays waste to all of the Shire
Would be funny but doesnt happen in the books
Sauron: "AH AT LAST I HAVE FOUND YOU!!!" The Hobbits: "OH DEAR."
I know like, realistically sauron was using his big mace or whatever, but I reaaaally want to believe that every time he took down a hobbit he was actually just punting them into the distance, and it was actually only like 100 hobbits total but they kept running back to the fight and eventually his legs got too tired.
We want to see Smaugh vs Hobbits and then Sauron vs Smaug! Great video guys :D
This is a hilarious video idea. The only time I’ve played against Sauron it was retrieve the prize and he picked the prize up. Brutal game as everyone tried to kill Sauron and he smashed everyone.
That is a terrifying game! Sauron getting the prize is a worst case scenario
Loved this. Different and fun from standard bat reps. More like this please. Say smaug or balrog vs unlimited dwarves
This is an awesome idea! I'll have to get Smaug on the channel
You guys need to do a fellowship campaign or a fantasy fellowship campaign. It would he awesome.
We have a Balin's Tomb video and I'm interested in continuing their journey
I second this the quest for the ring bearer campaigns are amazing
Great video, but you forgot an important rule. Terror. Chances are that not all those hobbits will be able to charge Sauron. And that can make a huge difference, if Sauron is only fighting say 3 at a time, he might not be killing as many, or at least not as many as quickly. But also it makes it harder for the Hobbits to take wounds as they can't always rely on huge numbers of dice rolls, but also, Sauron might not get trapped every time if say only 1 Hobbit successfully charges. I see why you didn't do it (if you purposefully chose to avoid terror) because it would take like 2-3 times longer. But its definitely worth considering that the outcome could have been radically different had you played with terror
Thanks for the comment. If we had been playing with terror a ring of hobbits 3" away would have surrounded Sauron giving them several opportunities each turn to charge in. This would have given roughly 20 opportunities to pass terror checks each turn which would almost always result in 6-8 hobbits in combat with him. It would have made a difference particularly in turns after Sauron lost the fight because hobbits that fail could block space for other hobbits. But overall for the additional length and complexity we didn't think it was necessary
So your saying to defeat Sauron, we need to drug 532+ hobbits enough that they don't feel fear at the sight of Sauron?
Got it.
This was hilarious, my kids just started playing over new years and actually asked this question so i'm playing this for them when theyre home from school XD
This is a great one to do with younger players! It was a heap of fun
I always love these goofy "who would win" style match ups. Great vid lads!
Very entertaining, this is the sort of solo game I would have during school holidays.
Did you consider making the hobbits take courage tests for charging Sauron ?
Imagine having to roll eight pairs of dice every turn for that, grim.
I don't remember the scouring of the shire being like this
Predictions were 650 and 400. In the end 532 is nicely close to the middle of both estimations = 525. It means that together you were exactly right!
Brilliant and very entertaining. Who's next to feel the fury of the Hobbits? Smaug or the Balrog?
That sounds like a lot of fun we can easily make a series out of this!
This was very fun 🤣 congratulations 👏 I'm very much looking forward to the new Kickstarter project 👌
I did not know I needed this, but so glad you decided to do the video.
Thanks conquest creations for keeping me inexplicably gripped for 15 minutes of hobbit-smashing.
I guess that all the hobbits have axes and doing pircing strikes? Because you can not wound with S2 against D10
Correct! I think we started this at the start. If they couldn't would Sauron it would have been an infinitely long video
Id be interested in seeing how many Numenorean adjacent models Sauron can kill. How deadly was he really on the battlefield during the first war of the ring?
Hhaha this was pretty great, must of been a toil rolling all those dice
This was a really cool video and good idea for content! I backed your last two projects. I hope to back this one too. Not sure my 3d printer will be able to handle these, though. They may be too tall for me.
Thanks for the comment! All of these are split into lists of smaller pieces that make them easy to fit into a regular sized printer
in our next episode we have a baneblade vs unlimited gretchin in a shooting battle.
This video was basically this Middle Earth equivalent of that hahaha
@ConquestCreations Hello, I am a software engineer, and I'd like to write a program to run this simulation a million times, and see what the stats are (min, max, average, median). Unfortunately, I don't play LotR:SBG, though I am a wargamer. This is what I was able to glean from the video, could someone please fill in the gaps for me?
To see who gets to attack, Sauron rolls 4d6, hobbits roll 8d6; high roller gets to attack, Sauron wins ties. It looks like this is the single highest die, not the sum, is this correct?
Sauron gets 8 attacks, hitting on 3+
Hobbits get 16 attacks, hitting on 6 followed by a 6
Resolving hits on Sauron:
If it's the last wound, he has a 2+ save.
He can spend a Might to reroll this, starting with 3 Might.
I don't know how to read the statbar, is his starting number of wounds 5 or 6?
Resolving hits on hobbits:
They die.
Thank you!
Never mind, got it sorted. Results for anyone interested:
+++ Results +++
Duration (Turns):
Average: 154.75
Median: 144
Min: 11
Max: 621
Casualities (Dead Hobbits):
Average: 486.40
Median: 451
Min: 18
Max: 2097
Just become my favorite mesbg battle report!
Thanks for the comment! We have plenty more on the way
@@ConquestCreations a shout from brazil! I hope this new way to run the channel works!
Doing the math behind this:
The average number of hobbits killed would be ~482.3.
The median number of Hobbits killed would be ~330.7.
Hobbits have a ~41.06% chance to win the fight, and need 28 wounds to kill Sauron on average, causing ~4/9 of a wound on average on a win with 16 strikes, it would take ~63 victories for the Hobbits to kill Sauron. In that time, Sauron would win ~90-91 rounds (~153.4 rounds average), killing ~5.333 hobbits in each win.
The median number of wounds needed is ~19.2, so in over half of the tests, Sauron would go down after ~43.2 hobbit victories, during which, Sauron would win ~62 combats.
As you can guess, the standard deviation here is quite large, as it could easily take an extra 10+ wounds for Sauron to go down. The result in the video of 532 hobbits is only a bit higher than the average at 532 dead hobbits, and well within expected deviation. This test had very close to the median number of expected ring saves, but the hobbits causing significantly less successful wounds, winning less combats, and/or Sauron killing a bit more than the expected number of hobbits, resulting in very close to the average expected number of rounds.
thanks for the hobbit math
We killed him in the first Edition of the game with Farmer Margot
That's brilliant! Thanks for the comment
Farmer with shotgun < Farmer with Pitchfork
The commitment... Bravo!!
This is just the cover of DOOM, with Sauron replacing Doomguy, and the hobbits replacing the demons.
I imagine all that hobbit gore would be a bitch to clean up. The shires few survivors are the real losers.
At least they now have the one ring and can use it to conquer Middle Earth
This is so wierd that i find this video today. Was literally on about how many hobbits could you take for points of Sauron. Train of thought led me to thinking of this exact thing. Least now I know lol.
With 1 hobbit at 4 points Sauron got his points back very solidly hahaha
I laughed so hard at this its just so comical. Thanks.
This has so much series potential.
Next episode has to be Smaug
This insanity is why a pay for internet!
The War of the Ring if Gandalf was a communist commissar, one shovel per 5 hobbits.
No courage tests to charge? And no magic?
Nice Sauron power
Do Smaug vs Hobbits come ooooooon it'll be awesome lmfao.
Now do Smaug haha
This is a fantastic idea!
wow haha thats commitment. I want to see what 500 hobbits on a board looks like. should photoshop and image xD
Uncle Wrestling Simulator
This is just one play through though. You should repeat this experiment a few times to get a solid average.
Awesome, how about fantassy fellowship with viwere voted members?
This is better than test cricket
How long did this take? I hope you gave up moving the hobbits into base contact and as casualties. In theory you could do this with just 8 hobbit models by keeping Sauron surrounded and make note of the hobbit deaths.
It didn't actually take too long in the end. We were probably at about an hour and a half. We did give up on moving them and intentionally didn't need to do terror checks because that would have added so much time for so little gain
Can't the ones in the back all throw rocks or have any ranged attacks? Not familiar with this game but I feel like this should be at least possible to help.
Can't Sauroman fling the hobbits at their backline, using them as some sort of projectile using his mace?
If sauron doesnt kill 400 points of hobbits then hes a rip off.
Shame Sauron isn’t typically that good in actually battles. Find he gets nullified quit easily by some hero’s like Gil galad etc and gets tied up easily. Never seen him deal real damage in a battle. Not like an Azog or bolg eyc
I've seen him used well but haven't seen him at the top of a tournament yet. He takes up a lot of points and can be bogged down just killing 2 of 3 troops per turn. I'm interested in running him just to see how I go with him
So good, love this stuff 😂
Impressive, very nice soo what about sauron pre nerf?
Is this referencing the FB post that came up with this idea? Maybe it was you guys but it would be awesome if they were given credit 👍
Thanks for the comment. I am the one who made those posts
@@ConquestCreations awesome well full credit to you then 👍
That was awesome!
Im i missing something but strength 2 can not wound defence 10 at all?
You're right, but Hobbits have axes so they were using piercing strike, increasing their strength to 3
Play Crusader Kings 3. Play with LOTR total overhaul mod. You can murder and conquer as many hobbits as you want.
Some two handed weapons would have made it more fun
Great video but now with smaug and balrog
I think testing the dice by floatation method before this kind of trial is important.
All of them.
how many hobbirs can the balrog kill??
Smaug vs hobbits?
I have to make this happen. The question is who will kill more hobbits?
Smaugs base would =death lol
Funny :D
No credit to the original post of this idea?
If this is referring to the Reddit/Facebook post of this idea that was me who made those posts
@@ConquestCreations doh! I had no idea, I wish you mentioned that. Credit to you then!
Haven’t watched it yet, but S2 can’t hurt D10.
Edit: I have watched it, and you guys unfortunately missed the mark on the wound table. Sauron literally can’t be wounded in this fight.
At the start we stated that all the hobbits had axes and were piercing striking meaning they would be striking at S3 which wounds D10 on 6/6
@@ConquestCreations ahhhh!!! I missed the piercing strike. Sorry about that. Thanks for the reply!
S2 can't wound D10 guys....😅😅😅
Thanks for the comment, as stated in the video we decided that all the hobbits would be armed with axes and using the piercing strike special strike which gives them +1 strength
This just feels offensive for short people. Like cmon man
Sorry, not my thing - too boring
In future if a video isn't for you feel free to click away and look for some content that suits you better. No need to leave a negative comment
@@ConquestCreations other videos on your channel are very good, so I wanted to express the opinion on this particular one