@@ixlr8677just like the entertainment business. The fans could put a stop to all this crap by just stop watching. We also possess the ability to stop the politicians but by fueling the in fighting they win .
Good observation NHRA isn't ruining pro-stock motorcycle,They HAVE ruined it.I don't care how fast they are,I'd like to see multiple manufacturers out there.Maybe a factory engine case rule?
the only fair thing is to have 2 different races,one for 4 cylinders, and one for v-twin ....both based on stock cases from production bikes to the mass public.
I have been following Pro Stock Motorcycle for many years. The late great Dave Schultz was my hero. Jack I’m glad you brought this to light. Hopefully something will be done. I would like for Kawasaki to be competitive.
If those manufacturers aren’t willing to grease the NHRA’s pockets for 6 figures per season, they are ABSOLUTELY not allowed to have anyone running their brand of equipment.
The other makes would rather focus on their production bikes, and production-based race bikes, like motocross and World Superbike. Pro Stock does nothing to increase sales for Zuki or Harley, only Vance & Hines.
@@petergehle4222sure they can considering that there’s not a single stock part in a pro stock motorcycle engine. It’s just a matter of spending enough money developing one off engines and then calling them stock. The rule’s literally prohibit stock parts. When Vance and Hines decided to race the Harley V-Rod nhra made them use a two valve head with pushrods. All production Harley Davidson V-rods used four valve overhead cam engines.
Why would you expect the old heads at the nhra to do anything right they operate like it's the 80s hell look at how the street outlaws and the no prep small tire racing has taken over social media and drag racing the nhra has become a rich man's racing club and the fans left are aging out and will be gone in a few years!
@@steveyork8069you are ABSOLUTELY correct. You forgot to mention the cost of the transport vehicle, tuner, lodging, food and CREW MEMBERS!!!! It’s a half million dollar investment with ZERO ROI!!!!
Your spitting facts, I just went to a top fuel event and my favorite part was the small tire shootout class and reason was I could identify with those guys. Top fuel is just a novelty at this point along with pro stock
Much love to Matt and Angie for fighting the good fight. It used to piss me off how much of an advantage the Harleys used to have, and now it's the exact same with the VH Suzukis. Get your shit together NHRA.....
Smith seems to overlooking that V&H isn’t doing all the winning, Gaige is doing all the winning, even against his teammates, Krawiec in ‘23, and Gadson in ‘24. I’d like to hear his explanation … It would be interesting to let Smith and Herrera ride the same bike several times back to back, and if Gaige bests Smith by .02-.04 to 60-ft. each time, it’s time for Smith to shut up … I’d pay to see that matchup!
“There’s a lot of things that haven’t been done out there, why??? “MONEY !!!! When the organizers start accepting greased palms , it literally ruins everything!!!!!
Why is it so hard for some to understand that you can buy the parts from V&H, You just can't buy the R&D for your program. Do you believe that the S&S cylinder head is ready to go out of the box right to the winners circle without going through it to make it work better?
I know nothing about the sport...but power & control + the perks that come along with it, matter 100x more then championships, a better product & the opinions of others. The attention is what they love not the sport.
This type of drag racing has become the rich mans game. Back in late 80's very early 90's I would help Pizza John, who in 89 had the championship for prostock. He would spend $20,000 a year and put in a lot of late nights. Schultz would be spending like $100,000 yearly. I can't even imagine what they spend now. A V&H crankshaft is $5500.00 you can bet cases are like $30,000 and your not even close to having a complete engine yet.
VHR built Pizza John Mafaros bike and it was actually faster than the bike Terry Vance raced in that year (it wasnt 1989). Terry Vance's last year was 1988 and he raced a GSX1100 Katana, I believe Pizza John raced a GPz1100.
@@MasterWitchDoctor Pizza won the prostock 1989, ( bike ran 7:86) and I would imagine that was the bike built by V&H. He sold that bike and in 1990 he had the 1st Puppet frames ( or one of the first, it was a new design) and he had all kinds of problems with the frame. He had Haledon Cycle on the right hand arm of his leathers. I was one of the people at Haledon Cycle, aka the Harley guys or Haledonians. We were just a bunch of motorcycle guys doing our thing at 2am most nights. ( and the neighbors would call the police for noise complaints at times)
Cycledrag guy has become quite the douche bag at all the rallies and races he shows up at , all the real racers tell him to f-off and quit bothering them
Ricky,. You said it right off,.. Get to work,. Stop belly aching, Make your own cranks,. Billet everything,. Spend the money the way V & H has been doing and make up that tenth your behind.
not every team can afford the equipment, technology and raw material supply yo build their own parts. NHRA said parody and they are not doing what they say.
He could make up a tenth and he would still have to make more than 5 more tenths to be any competition V&H is running 5 to 6 tenths faster than everyone else
Seems like a dumb business decision for a race engine builder to have their own team. I thought it would kill the business after you start winning....but what do I know. Also- who in their right mind would pay big money to their competitor for an engine? Thats dumb too.
Why race if you’re not trying to win? V&H build a product to help them win! Why would they sale the products that’s helping them win to their competitors???? That makes no sense! Go build your own product to help you win! Why would the sale to someone to cause them to lose? Racing is about who is the fastest and who can get to the finish line first! Not I’ll sale you the parts to help you possibly beat me in a race!!!!! SMH! They supposed to build and make their bike faster so they can win!
@@backroadbeetle4781 You're right. The manufacturers aren't as involved as they used to be. Maybe thats why its the suzuki harley show. Why would kawasaki or yamaha even try to invest to get into it? I have been thinking about it and I think the only factory parts on those bikes is the headlight and tail light. I'm not hating on the class. They are really flying but it's not really pro "stock."
Great video!! That all needed to be said!! Thank you Matt Smith for taking the time after the race!! I hope this class doesnt go away!! Jack, many people were disappointed in FS1 broadcast schedule!!! Needs to be on in the afternoon!! I was looking forward to live gatornationals!! Not happy!! Keep up the great coverage!! Heading to lebanon valley for opening day in 2 weeks!!
It’s called professional drag racing. Just like when Bob Glidden dominated pro stock. Other folks could run fords but they weren’t going to get the same stuff he had. He developed it , he tested it, he worked the hardest plain and simple. If I have invested in all the machinery and equipment, well each team can do the same. Or go out and find a manufacturer that will work exclusively with your team.
@@davidrial9249That's the very same thing they did with the Hemi cars as well . Even the winged super bird and the Dodge Daytona's in NASCAR kept getting rule mandate that the hemi couldn't run the magnesium intakes and eventually could only 1 - 4 barrel carburetor to try and slow them down until NASCAR eventually banned them altogether. NHRA was making the Hemi cars add weight as well to slow them down but smart racers would add the weight in the rear tube chassis frames that had fill & drain caps welded in so they could change the bias weight on the cars for better traction and launch .
There were crew chiefs in drag racing that had always faster cars then their competition, for a variety of reasons. Maybe they worked longer and harder, tested more or knew people who could design and make better parts. Or maybe they were just smarter. These teams would dominate for a while, then someone new would come along and dominate for a while. It's the way it's always been in racing. Rule changes that try to make everyone equal don't work.
Companies are not going to build Suzuki parts to compete against V&H because the potential sales would not be enough to justify the investment. Perhaps we ban certain aftermarket parts like billet cases, heads, crankshafts? That would eliminate your point of contention. Other classes have companies that race and supply parts and even lease engines and I don't hear the same controversy there. Yes the V-Rod deal was wrong but that was in the past, lets move on.
So you want only the most wealthy people in the sport racing against V&H or do you want the class to die? Because that’s what your solution means. NO SINGLE manufacturer should control a multi manufacturer class. Period.
When a corporation obtains enough power and control, they can also control the information (which is power), and they can right their own ethics and eliminate their own consequences.
High Fives to Matt Smith for competing fairly. Shame on Vance and Hines for not offering the very same engine related parts to all for purchase. No special negotiations etc. the same cylinder heads, crank shafts etc...available to all. Shame on the NHRA parody does not exist currently in the class.
Just finished watching Chris Moore within .2 and pulling almost 20mph more on a street bike WITH NO BAR. That guy could show V&H how to do it. Guy is legend.
For what it’s worth…Byron Hines is a very nice person at track. Years ago he took time out to chat with me about his endeavors into a Yamaha FJ engine based street race engine. I also witnessed another Pro Stock team needing clutch plates and asked a VH crew if they could spare a set. The VH crew member didn’t give the guy any plates and sent him on his way. When the crew member told Byron what had transpired, I heard Byron tell him….You should have given the guy clutch plates. This was the VH team’s direct competition and Byron was more than willing to help. I don’t pretend to know what politics are running but I will say….Byron is a hellava guy!!!!👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Make over for sure, look at motocross, Supercross , I’m no fan of Field moto sports but this year look at the attendance , record setting, new manufacturers coming in I’m 61 still riding, and have TONS of choice , and even in New England we now have new private tracks to ride!
That is insane. It's crap like that that will destroy the class. I used to do 4 cylinder engines that dominated a class racing dirt track. I also raced a car in the class. I sold customers the exact same thing I had. It's the only right thing to do.
I personally watched it in Texas when Michael Phillips smoked the vance and Hines Harley in the finals and won, and then immediately the nhra put out engine and valve changes and requirements 😮
Lets not forget that gage cuts a killer light. Matt always complains when he losses when he wins he is quiet. You just said V and H are selling parts to other riders. How many teams does matt sell to?
2:52 That race Rivas went on to the final to race Eddie Kraewick, beat Eddie, 6:92 to a 7:07. Kraewick went on to win the championship without winning a race, 2nd time that happened in NHRA history. Craig Trebel in the race you showed was actually a paid Vance & Hines rider for the race as a blocker. He was on one of Matt Hines Suzuki frames that he'd won a his last championship on, Craig said that frame was best he'd ever ridden, glided down the track.
one thing is for sure on the after market side of street bikes and normal people NOBODY runs vance and hines parts unless they buy a bike with them already on it they are way to high and just do NOT make the power that alot of the new companies parts do this is also why you see a big surge on the no prep side people want to see normal people have a chance to win and do not want to see it where to compete you must have a certain engine and millions in backing this is something that is killing America not just racing politics companies being allowed to have a monopoly over all that is not what this country is supposed to be about if you race it you have to sell the exact same thing love the idea of 16 bikes all the same and draw chips and do not let vance and hindend service it
Matt wasn't crying and belly aching when he was winning!!!! Matt is not going to sell anyone what he has. He said he would sell you an S&S head with blank cams. How is that any different? Quit crying and get to work, period. His short times weren't there, so that's V&H and NHRAs fault as well, please!!!!
There’s no controversy,there’s only the biggest ego in NHRA not winning anymore,getting beat every weekend,win he’s not winning he is always crying foul,and protesting.😭
Make the teams run stock cases, stock cranks, heads whatever. No more cnc billet engines! Make it so average people can buy a engine and bike combo. Put TF 500 inch nitro in a bike and see who can stay on it!😃
Has anyone with Vance & Hines parts won a championship other than the Vance & Hines bikes? If not then I think some serious investigating needs to go into Vance & Hines. At the same time kind of a double edged sword. Vance & Hines has put countless dollars into R&D to be where they are today. Why should they just hand that out to the public when racing and winning races is part of their business? To me NHRA needs to handle the parody for the class better and the other riders need to fight more for r&d programs that have nothing to do with Vance & Hines like what S&S did. If you feel you’re being treated wrong then stop buying their product.
NHRA should create a rule that if you are to race in Pro/Stock you should be made to sell parts to competitors even if you are the only one to make them. Anyone giving NHRA a cheque for a million dollars every year knows it's a bribe.
Wild to see all the hype and fuss about Gaige. So stoked for all his success and crazy to see how far he’s come from the 1/8th at Irwindale every Thursday.
Hate to say it I see both sides of it but I don't believe anybody should able to Corner the market on parts. For whatever reason or excuse they have its not good for the sport. if that means going back to mandating stock cases cranks and heads then that's what they need to do.
@Jared45513 I don't see why you couldn't use a drag slick and a wheelie bar but yes, Chris Moore's turbo Busa he ran at Pamona is what PSM should be about. Stock chassis, stock front suspension, lowered, obviously, and stock bodywork.
Falicon probably rebuilt, straightened and welded millions of Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha factory multi-piece cranks back in the 80s. Back when Pro-STOCK meant using a factory production Suzuki GS-1100/1150 or Kawasaki KZ-900/GPZ-1100 bottom end.
The longer I watch ... the more interested I am ... I love these guys/girls -- way to call out the lack of parity. Didn't realize there were so many shady things going on with the NHRA Motorcycle class. They are basically allowing one side of the aisle to do whatever they want? How long until the other side says "screw this -- we aren't ever going to be treated equally". Crazy stuff.
I remember when Ricky Smith would speak against unfair rules in other classes, he too was more often than not, correct. When Matt brings up points of contention he is also more often than not, correct. There will always be teams and manufacturers that have a favored advantage in NHRA.
Only solution is to have 2 classes for V twins and one for 4 cylinder bikes. Penalizing one to make the other competitive is not the answer. I can't win so make the other bike slower, in my opinion that is just wrong. And to call one H-D and the other Suzuki is just stupid. Neither bike is even close to a factory machine. There is not one factory part in either bike. And call them Pro Stock where is the stock not even close.
I don’t think he is complaining about loosing. He is complaining that there is equality in the class. The 4 cylinders clearly have an advantage. He tried to go to suzuki but the only ones making parts for that engine is the team winning everything and they don’t make parts available to competitors. The v-twins are limited by the rules. A true racer wants to win fairly. And if they ever skirted the rules and got caught every win and championship would be called into question. If the other brand beats you by a tenth at that level and beats you in every part of the track it’s not you. I don’t follow this type of racing and don’t care about it. I care about all motor sports growing.
I appreciate you bringing this out. I love NHRA and had no idea this was happening. Matt and Angie are great with fans and seem to be of great character. This needs fixing, racing for 2nd, not good for fans or sponsors.
Since the stock Suzuki GS,and Kawasaki cases are scarce its only fair to run todays engines Busa, ZX14, 1000 and build from that for pro stock. Those engines makes a ton of power and there are billet plain bearings cranksshafts, I-beam rods, billet clutch baskets, fuel injection all avaible for the racer not just for an elite group. NHRA is full of BS.
I love how towards the very end you ask Matt Smith if all this championships came while he was building his own equipment and he said yes so you should go back to building all his own equipment and another thing what are you guys going to do if they do penalize Vance and Hines by adding a bunch of weight and changing rules and he still beats you
V&H has always been that way. They always keep a step ahead for themselves. Even back in the early ‘80’s Terry’s Kawasaki street bike had unobtainable smooth bore cone carbs he would keep hidden between races. It also had port modifications that were unique to only his cylinder head, not customers parts.
These are interesting conversations. I’m curious why NHRA did not address these stats in the off season. I don’t follow drag racing much these days, the shade tree guys got pushed out a while ago. Racing is a manufacturing company compitition. Personally I don’t agree with any Rent a Racer policy especially when a single company looks to be competing unfairly. But just a fan these days. I do have more respect for this commentator lately. He speaks up out of love for the sport.
History repeats. Not long ago "Fast" Eddie Krawic took the PSM world by storm on his V&H Harley that nobody but his team could possess much less race with. Then last year Gage Herrera did the same on a V&H Suzuki. Thing is, while a great rider, not even his team mate on the same bike could approach his performance, not about the tree, but the raw speed regardless of RT. Nobody questioned it, because he's the new phenom, the rookie that shut down everyone he faced! HE was the difference! Beating his team mate proved it! Couldn't be the bike because they're both the same.... RIGHT?!?!? The real life Cinderella STORY, which is what NHRA wants... storylines. And none of this is about Gage, he's just a racer taking the opportunity he was given, just like Eddie was. Both are great racers and earned their spot. It's about V&H and NHRA and conflicts of interest (both one-off parts that nobody can buy, and they always seem to retain the sponsorship of the class sponsor).
@@Clyde-2055 I'm saying the timing is impeccable. Remember, when Eddie came on the scene, Harleys and Choppers were in the mainstream of entertainment, so of course HD wanted to roll hard on that tide. Public sentiment of the biker lifestlye has waned so V&H moved back to Suzuki and a new star was born. I'd be interested in how Gaige gets that much more performance out of the same bike as his team mate. I mean, what input does the rider have that could unleash such dominance? Cutting down the tree, and hitting shift points. And in the heady company of the PSM field, I just can't see anyone else that far off a shift point that he is that much better on the timeslip. It's gotta be the bike. To "pique fan interest" is the goal of every sponsor and every racing sanction in the world. Why wouldn't they?
I've been around drag racing for 54 years and this video is exactly what I've been thinking for the past 24 months. NHRA/V&H is wrecking the Pro Bike class. Not much point in watching the bike class right now. Rickie Smith is the man for not beating around the bush (Matt being his son or not).
The fields are going to get smaller. I just don't find NHRA that interesting anymore. Just look at the crowds, they have shrunk. I used to watch it on TV, I don't care anymore.
You didnt mention that Suzuki doesnt make the cases anymore. It has been years since they have made them. Just ask Steve Johnson. I remember him saying, afew years back, that they had to go to junk yards to find crankcases to use because they weren't made anymore.
I’m from Nola and worked at Harley for a while after Katrina doing cop bikes and LE would stop in and have lunch with us mainly to see his buddy Eric aka East E bike racer well known in Nola
Vance and Hines are supplying money to nhra so the nhra officials can buy those Rolex's for Christmas gifts.
fans put up with that loaded crap? unreal.
@@ixlr8677just like the entertainment business. The fans could put a stop to all this crap by just stop watching. We also possess the ability to stop the politicians but by fueling the in fighting they win .
@@gregblack8550 they keep use fightin each other so we will leave them alone.
Nhra should be ashamed.crooked
Good observation NHRA isn't ruining pro-stock motorcycle,They HAVE ruined it.I don't care how fast they are,I'd like to see multiple manufacturers out there.Maybe a factory engine case rule?
the only fair thing is to have 2 different races,one for 4 cylinders, and one for v-twin ....both based on stock cases from production bikes to the mass public.
How about 1 class and limit engine size and everybody has the same weight minimum.
Yes 4 cylinder will always be more powerful than V-twin, Just have a V-twin class and a 4cylinder class.Maybe the crying will stop.
see I always thought it was stock casings, weird that it's not
@@backroadbeetle4781well there’s certainly nothing stock about pro stock. Might as well call it pro crock!
Take the wheelie bars off.... Let's see them actually jock the bikes
Hard hitting news reporting and interviews. Let me guess, V&H had no comment?
I have been following Pro Stock Motorcycle for many years. The late great Dave Schultz was my hero. Jack I’m glad you brought this to light. Hopefully something will be done. I would like for Kawasaki to be competitive.
I can appreciate how candid Matt is in letting EVERYONE know the dirty tricks being played by Vance and Hines and ENABLED by the NHRA.
Sounds like a cozy cartel. Sounds like things being fixed. Where are the other engines - Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda?.
If those manufacturers aren’t willing to grease the NHRA’s pockets for 6 figures per season, they are ABSOLUTELY not allowed to have anyone running their brand of equipment.
The other makes would rather focus on their production bikes, and production-based race bikes, like motocross and World Superbike. Pro Stock does nothing to increase sales for Zuki or Harley, only Vance & Hines.
@@JeffKopis very true.
The other makes can't make the hp.....simple
@@petergehle4222sure they can considering that there’s not a single stock part in a pro stock motorcycle engine. It’s just a matter of spending enough money developing one off engines and then calling them stock. The rule’s literally prohibit stock parts. When Vance and Hines decided to race the Harley V-Rod nhra made them use a two valve head with pushrods. All production Harley Davidson V-rods used four valve overhead cam engines.
Why would you expect the old heads at the nhra to do anything right they operate like it's the 80s hell look at how the street outlaws and the no prep small tire racing has taken over social media and drag racing the nhra has become a rich man's racing club and the fans left are aging out and will be gone in a few years!
No prep kings not a rich man’s sport.Well over $250 k in the cars plus $110 k engines.
It still doesn't beat a top fuel dragster going 330 mph in 3.7 seconds
@@steveyork8069you are ABSOLUTELY correct. You forgot to mention the cost of the transport vehicle, tuner, lodging, food and CREW MEMBERS!!!! It’s a half million dollar investment with ZERO ROI!!!!
Your spitting facts, I just went to a top fuel event and my favorite part was the small tire shootout class and reason was I could identify with those guys. Top fuel is just a novelty at this point along with pro stock
@Rustywells2 great point
Much love to Matt and Angie for fighting the good fight. It used to piss me off how much of an advantage the Harleys used to have, and now it's the exact same with the VH Suzukis. Get your shit together NHRA.....
Smith seems to overlooking that V&H isn’t doing all the winning, Gaige is doing all the winning, even against his teammates, Krawiec in ‘23, and Gadson in ‘24.
I’d like to hear his explanation …
It would be interesting to let Smith and Herrera ride the same bike several times back to back, and if Gaige bests Smith by .02-.04 to 60-ft. each time, it’s time for Smith to shut up …
I’d pay to see that matchup!
corporate corruption has no place in motorcycle racing,yet here it is,thanks to the love of money
“There’s a lot of things that haven’t been done out there, why??? “MONEY !!!! When the organizers start accepting greased palms , it literally ruins everything!!!!!
Greed. Money is merely the ability to command goods and services.
Why is it so hard for some to understand that you can buy the parts from V&H, You just can't buy the R&D for your program. Do you believe that the S&S cylinder head is ready to go out of the box right to the winners circle without going through it to make it work better?
Vance & Hines and Suzuki. Two things that should never be mentioned together in the same sentence.
Vance and Hines will kill the very thing they love and that will be how they are remember not all the championships!
It’s not just Vance & Hines. It’s ALL of the manufacturers as well. The price of parts are absolutely insane.
I know nothing about the sport...but power & control + the perks that come along with it, matter 100x more then championships, a better product & the opinions of others. The attention is what they love not the sport.
That's all BS .
This type of drag racing has become the rich mans game. Back in late 80's very early 90's I would help Pizza John, who in 89 had the championship for prostock. He would spend $20,000 a year and put in a lot of late nights. Schultz would be spending like $100,000 yearly. I can't even imagine what they spend now. A V&H crankshaft is $5500.00 you can bet cases are like $30,000 and your not even close to having a complete engine yet.
VHR built Pizza John Mafaros bike and it was actually faster than the bike Terry Vance raced in that year (it wasnt 1989). Terry Vance's last year was 1988 and he raced a GSX1100 Katana, I believe Pizza John raced a GPz1100.
@@MasterWitchDoctor Pizza won the prostock 1989, ( bike ran 7:86) and I would imagine that was the bike built by V&H. He sold that bike and in 1990 he had the 1st Puppet frames ( or one of the first, it was a new design) and he had all kinds of problems with the frame. He had Haledon Cycle on the right hand arm of his leathers. I was one of the people at Haledon Cycle, aka the Harley guys or Haledonians. We were just a bunch of motorcycle guys doing our thing at 2am most nights. ( and the neighbors would call the police for noise complaints at times)
Comparing a V-Twin to a 4 Cylinder Overhead Cam Engine is like Comparing Apples to Oranges.
Can't think of who does more to promote drag racing. Love what you do. Keep up the good work.
Cycledrag guy has become quite the douche bag at all the rallies and races he shows up at , all the real racers tell him to f-off and quit bothering them
Ricky,. You said it right off,.. Get to work,. Stop belly aching, Make your own cranks,. Billet everything,. Spend the money the way V & H has been doing and make up that tenth your behind.
You can make whatever you want but the NHRA has to approve it before you can run it in competition
not every team can afford the equipment, technology and raw material supply yo build their own parts. NHRA said parody and they are not doing what they say.
He could make up a tenth and he would still have to make more than 5 more tenths to be any competition V&H is running 5 to 6 tenths faster than everyone else
Seems like a dumb business decision for a race engine builder to have their own team. I thought it would kill the business after you start winning....but what do I know. Also- who in their right mind would pay big money to their competitor for an engine? Thats dumb too.
Why race if you’re not trying to win? V&H build a product to help them win! Why would they sale the products that’s helping them win to their competitors???? That makes no sense! Go build your own product to help you win! Why would the sale to someone to cause them to lose? Racing is about who is the fastest and who can get to the finish line first! Not I’ll sale you the parts to help you possibly beat me in a race!!!!! SMH! They supposed to build and make their bike faster so they can win!
Same as what NHRA done to pro stock. It is just pro Chevrolet!
Ford and Chrysler have consistently refused to invest money to make parts for the class. It's that simple.
Maybe it's evolving into a pro mod bike class. If it's going to be "pro stock" you can't have billet engines.
dude I always thought it was stock casings, shits aren't "stock" in any way whatsoever. Kills innovation.
@@backroadbeetle4781 You're right. The manufacturers aren't as involved as they used to be. Maybe thats why its the suzuki harley show. Why would kawasaki or yamaha even try to invest to get into it? I have been thinking about it and I think the only factory parts on those bikes is the headlight and tail light. I'm not hating on the class. They are really flying but it's not really pro "stock."
So who's stopping the other teams from developing their own engine parts to compete with V&H?
Great video!! That all needed to be said!! Thank you Matt Smith for taking the time after the race!! I hope this class doesnt go away!!
Jack, many people were disappointed in FS1 broadcast schedule!!! Needs to be on in the afternoon!! I was looking forward to live gatornationals!! Not happy!!
Keep up the great coverage!! Heading to lebanon valley for opening day in 2 weeks!!
It’s called professional drag racing. Just like when Bob Glidden dominated pro stock. Other folks could run fords but they weren’t going to get the same stuff he had. He developed it , he tested it, he worked the hardest plain and simple. If I have invested in all the machinery and equipment, well each team can do the same. Or go out and find a manufacturer that will work exclusively with your team.
The money is not there for other companies to invest millions into a product for a hand full of customers.
Yea,Glidden out classed everyone else & NHRA kept putting weight on the Cleveland!! Glidden built small motors & when faster!!! Thanks NHRA
@@davidrial9249That's the very same thing they did with the Hemi cars as well . Even the winged super bird and the Dodge Daytona's in NASCAR kept getting rule mandate that the hemi couldn't run the magnesium intakes and eventually could only 1 - 4 barrel carburetor to try and slow them down until NASCAR eventually banned them altogether. NHRA was making the Hemi cars add weight as well to slow them down but smart racers would add the weight in the rear tube chassis frames that had fill & drain caps welded in so they could change the bias weight on the cars for better traction and launch .
There were crew chiefs in drag racing that had always faster cars then their competition, for a variety of reasons. Maybe they worked longer and harder, tested more or knew people who could design and make better parts. Or maybe they were just smarter. These teams would dominate for a while, then someone new would come along and dominate for a while. It's the way it's always been in racing. Rule changes that try to make everyone equal don't work.
@@markf5735 bingo
Great video 👍 Jack. Your correct we wanna see everyone stand a chance of winning.
Companies are not going to build Suzuki parts to compete against V&H because the potential sales would not be enough to justify the investment. Perhaps we ban certain aftermarket parts like billet cases, heads, crankshafts? That would eliminate your point of contention.
Other classes have companies that race and supply parts and even lease engines and I don't hear the same controversy there.
Yes the V-Rod deal was wrong but that was in the past, lets move on.
Sorry to hear about the bullshit in your sport.
You don’t like that V&H is the suppliers ? Go make you own engine and submit it to NHRA you can do that
So you want only the most wealthy people in the sport racing against V&H or do you want the class to die? Because that’s what your solution means. NO SINGLE manufacturer should control a multi manufacturer class. Period.
@@MikeRay1978 That's pretty much what every class in NHRA has become, and exactly what Warren Johnson warned about 20 years ago.
When a corporation obtains enough power and control, they can also control the information (which is power), and they can right their own ethics and eliminate their own consequences.
High Fives to Matt Smith for competing fairly. Shame on Vance and Hines for not offering the very same engine related parts to all for purchase. No special negotiations etc. the same cylinder heads, crank shafts etc...available to all. Shame on the NHRA parody does not exist currently in the class.
Just finished watching Chris Moore within .2 and pulling almost 20mph more on a street bike WITH NO BAR. That guy could show V&H how to do it. Guy is legend.
So glad somebody finally spoke up about this situation! You sir are the man! Thank you for opening up some eyes to this controversy.
Thank you Man , biggest wallet wins is not racing. Control of outcomes is rubbish as well.
Isnt this something that has been happening on both sides? I remember harleys dominating because a rule change was needed
I'm a Vance and Hines guy but on the road racing side.... 90's era road racing side.....
For what it’s worth…Byron Hines is a very nice person at track. Years ago he took time out to chat with me about his endeavors into a Yamaha FJ engine based street race engine. I also witnessed another Pro Stock team needing clutch plates and asked a VH crew if they could spare a set. The VH crew member didn’t give the guy any plates and sent him on his way. When the crew member told Byron what had transpired, I heard Byron tell him….You should have given the guy clutch plates. This was the VH team’s direct competition and Byron was more than willing to help. I don’t pretend to know what politics are running but I will say….Byron is a hellava guy!!!!👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
I also noticed not to many were excited about the win
Make over for sure, look at motocross, Supercross , I’m no fan of Field moto sports but this year look at the attendance , record setting, new manufacturers coming in I’m 61 still riding, and have TONS of choice , and even in New England we now have new private tracks to ride!
That is insane. It's crap like that that will destroy the class. I used to do 4 cylinder engines that dominated a class racing dirt track. I also raced a car in the class. I sold customers the exact same thing I had. It's the only right thing to do.
Claim rule needs to be implemented, period!
Make the class based on 1000cc production engines.... and the equivalent for any v twin.... that way every manufacturer could have a bike in it
Thanks for your stand up attitude on this. you have a voice that maybe they will here.
Matt Smith 4 life!!! Its all about the money V&H pushes under the table to NHRA!!!
I personally watched it in Texas when Michael Phillips smoked the vance and Hines Harley in the finals and won, and then immediately the nhra put out engine and valve changes and requirements 😮
Thank you for putting out the facts!! I’m not a big fallowed of the bikes but it definitely seems lopsided for sure
Lets not forget that gage cuts a killer light. Matt always complains when he losses when he wins he is quiet. You just said V and H are selling parts to other riders. How many teams does matt sell to?
Perhaps nobody wants to buy Matt’s overpriced parts …
Not running the bikes at all events also kill the class. Like your info and background you bring to NHRA !
2:52 That race Rivas went on to the final to race Eddie Kraewick, beat Eddie, 6:92 to a 7:07. Kraewick went on to win the championship without winning a race, 2nd time that happened in NHRA history. Craig Trebel in the race you showed was actually a paid Vance & Hines rider for the race as a blocker. He was on one of Matt Hines Suzuki frames that he'd won a his last championship on, Craig said that frame was best he'd ever ridden, glided down the track.
one thing is for sure on the after market side of street bikes and normal people NOBODY runs vance and hines parts unless they buy a bike with them already on it they are way to high and just do NOT make the power that alot of the new companies parts do this is also why you see a big surge on the no prep side people want to see normal people have a chance to win and do not want to see it where to compete you must have a certain engine and millions in backing this is something that is killing America not just racing politics companies being allowed to have a monopoly over all that is not what this country is supposed to be about if you race it you have to sell the exact same thing love the idea of 16 bikes all the same and draw chips and do not let vance and hindend service it
Matt wasn't crying and belly aching when he was winning!!!! Matt is not going to sell anyone what he has. He said he would sell you an S&S head with blank cams. How is that any different? Quit crying and get to work, period. His short times weren't there, so that's V&H and NHRAs fault as well, please!!!!
How long have you been employed with Vance and Hines?
Matt sounds like trump, if he doesn't win the race was rigged.
You are not afraid to speak truth! -Subscribed!
There’s no controversy,there’s only the biggest ego in NHRA not winning anymore,getting beat every weekend,win he’s not winning he is always crying foul,and protesting.😭
Negative we can tell you don’t know nothing. Go back and look everytime Matt ran and won rules were added but not with Vance and Hines
Make the teams run stock cases, stock cranks, heads whatever. No more cnc billet engines! Make it so average people can buy a engine and bike combo. Put TF 500 inch nitro in a bike and see who can stay on it!😃
Mr.Ricky Smith is 100% right!!😎👊🏾🌱
Has anyone with Vance & Hines parts won a championship other than the Vance & Hines bikes? If not then I think some serious investigating needs to go into Vance & Hines. At the same time kind of a double edged sword. Vance & Hines has put countless dollars into R&D to be where they are today. Why should they just hand that out to the public when racing and winning races is part of their business? To me NHRA needs to handle the parody for the class better and the other riders need to fight more for r&d programs that have nothing to do with Vance & Hines like what S&S did. If you feel you’re being treated wrong then stop buying their product.
"parity". Parody means "making fun of".
NHRA should create a rule that if you are to race in Pro/Stock you should be made to sell parts to competitors even if you are the only one to make them.
Anyone giving NHRA a cheque for a million dollars every year knows it's a bribe.
Wild to see all the hype and fuss about Gaige. So stoked for all his success and crazy to see how far he’s come from the 1/8th at Irwindale every Thursday.
Hate to say it I see both sides of it but I don't believe anybody should able to Corner the market on parts. For whatever reason or excuse they have its not good for the sport. if that means going back to mandating stock cases cranks and heads then that's what they need to do.
I was at Gainesville when Willie G. Davidson handed Terry Vance a check for thirteen million dollars on the starting line.
That turbo bike Chris Moore rode at Pomona for a couple exhibition runs should be what PSM should be based on. It ran 215mph and its street legal.
Agreed. Pretty sure it was on a DOT drag radial as well
@Jared45513 I don't see why you couldn't use a drag slick and a wheelie bar but yes, Chris Moore's turbo Busa he ran at Pamona is what PSM should be about. Stock chassis, stock front suspension, lowered, obviously, and stock bodywork.
What happened to Falicon? I remenber Vance and Hines getting all their cranks there.
Falicon probably rebuilt, straightened and welded millions of Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha factory multi-piece cranks back in the 80s. Back when Pro-STOCK meant using a factory production Suzuki GS-1100/1150 or Kawasaki KZ-900/GPZ-1100 bottom end.
The shop closed 10 years give or take. I have 1 of their cranks in my
1981 GS 1261.
The longer I watch ... the more interested I am ... I love these guys/girls -- way to call out the lack of parity. Didn't realize there were so many shady things going on with the NHRA Motorcycle class. They are basically allowing one side of the aisle to do whatever they want? How long until the other side says "screw this -- we aren't ever going to be treated equally". Crazy stuff.
I remember when Ricky Smith would speak against unfair rules in other classes, he too was more often than not, correct. When Matt brings up points of contention he is also more often than not, correct. There will always be teams and manufacturers that have a favored advantage in NHRA.
Couldn't agree with you more but geez that busa is absolutely beautiful. TOTALLY unfair though, NHRA does need to step in.
So if there's a single supplier, there should be some sort of claimed type rule.
Look to V&H,Suzuki,&NHRA ,then follow the money.
Your right this Is an I opener to the casual fan but really is discussing!!!
NHRA/ Vance & Hines Do the right thing!!!!!
Only solution is to have 2 classes for V twins and one for 4 cylinder bikes. Penalizing one to make the other competitive is not the answer. I can't win so make the other bike slower, in my opinion that is just wrong. And to call one H-D and the other Suzuki is just stupid. Neither bike is even close to a factory machine. There is not one factory part in either bike. And call them Pro Stock where is the stock not even close.
Didn't hear the Smiths complaining when he won six
I don’t think he is complaining about loosing. He is complaining that there is equality in the class. The 4 cylinders clearly have an advantage. He tried to go to suzuki but the only ones making parts for that engine is the team winning everything and they don’t make parts available to competitors. The v-twins are limited by the rules. A true racer wants to win fairly. And if they ever skirted the rules and got caught every win and championship would be called into question. If the other brand beats you by a tenth at that level and beats you in every part of the track it’s not you. I don’t follow this type of racing and don’t care about it. I care about all motor sports growing.
So sad when things like this happen. I think it is unfortunate and needs to be corrected. I agree with Matt.
Ricky Smith isn’t scared to tell it
Great interview with Matt!
In the Automotive Industry there are so many Aftermarket head and Crank Builders.. that you have choices for your parts sources..
I appreciate you bringing this out. I love NHRA and had no idea this was happening. Matt and Angie are great with fans and seem to be of great character. This needs fixing, racing for 2nd, not good for fans or sponsors.
There's not one person in the V Twin camp that can build something better than V&H. Ricky Smith needs to be the President of NHRA.
Returning fan here. What is keeping others from building heads, cranks, and cases for Suzukis?
Smith is outrunning all the other V Twins and the other v twin teams arent complaining.
What Matt is saying is absolutely done in Pro Mod and FSS. So strange it's not being done in PSB.
Congratulations ANGIE, The first race back is hard now just rinse and repeat
They need to go back to stock cranks cases and heads.
I remember meeting Angie Smith last year in Charlotte, I’m hoping to meet Matt this year in Charlotte at the four wide nationals
Whatever happened to run what you brung? If you need to go faster find a way. If everything depends on the start alone what fun is deag racing?
Vance & Hines have been running Suzukis the last two years. Not V-Rods
Vance and Hines have always had the advantage of NHRA rules in their favor.
Since the stock Suzuki GS,and Kawasaki cases are scarce its only fair to run todays engines Busa, ZX14, 1000 and build from that for pro stock. Those engines makes a ton of power and there are billet plain bearings cranksshafts, I-beam rods, billet clutch baskets, fuel injection all avaible for the racer not just for an elite group. NHRA is full of BS.
Ricky is the man. Love his truthfulness.
I love how towards the very end you ask Matt Smith if all this championships came while he was building his own equipment and he said yes so you should go back to building all his own equipment and another thing what are you guys going to do if they do penalize Vance and Hines by adding a bunch of weight and changing rules and he still beats you
I turned my back on the NHRA years ago and won't look back
Love the coverage 🙏
V&H has always been that way. They always keep a step ahead for themselves. Even back in the early ‘80’s Terry’s Kawasaki street bike had unobtainable smooth bore cone carbs he would keep hidden between races. It also had port modifications that were unique to only his cylinder head, not customers parts.
These are interesting conversations. I’m curious why NHRA did not address these stats in the off season. I don’t follow drag racing much these days, the shade tree guys got pushed out a while ago. Racing is a manufacturing company compitition. Personally I don’t agree with any Rent a Racer policy especially when a single company looks to be competing unfairly. But just a fan these days.
I do have more respect for this commentator lately. He speaks up out of love for the sport.
History repeats. Not long ago "Fast" Eddie Krawic took the PSM world by storm on his V&H Harley that nobody but his team could possess much less race with. Then last year Gage Herrera did the same on a V&H Suzuki. Thing is, while a great rider, not even his team mate on the same bike could approach his performance, not about the tree, but the raw speed regardless of RT. Nobody questioned it, because he's the new phenom, the rookie that shut down everyone he faced! HE was the difference! Beating his team mate proved it! Couldn't be the bike because they're both the same.... RIGHT?!?!? The real life Cinderella STORY, which is what NHRA wants... storylines.
And none of this is about Gage, he's just a racer taking the opportunity he was given, just like Eddie was. Both are great racers and earned their spot. It's about V&H and NHRA and conflicts of interest (both one-off parts that nobody can buy, and they always seem to retain the sponsorship of the class sponsor).
So you’re saying the dominance of both Gaige and “Fast” Eddie are both somehow orchestrated to pique fan interest ?
@@Clyde-2055 I'm saying the timing is impeccable. Remember, when Eddie came on the scene, Harleys and Choppers were in the mainstream of entertainment, so of course HD wanted to roll hard on that tide. Public sentiment of the biker lifestlye has waned so V&H moved back to Suzuki and a new star was born.
I'd be interested in how Gaige gets that much more performance out of the same bike as his team mate. I mean, what input does the rider have that could unleash such dominance? Cutting down the tree, and hitting shift points. And in the heady company of the PSM field, I just can't see anyone else that far off a shift point that he is that much better on the timeslip. It's gotta be the bike.
To "pique fan interest" is the goal of every sponsor and every racing sanction in the world. Why wouldn't they?
2 👍👍 thumbs up to the "Smith Family"
I've been around drag racing for 54 years and this video is exactly what I've been thinking for the past 24 months. NHRA/V&H is wrecking the Pro Bike class. Not much point in watching the bike class right now. Rickie Smith is the man for not beating around the bush (Matt being his son or not).
The fields are going to get smaller. I just don't find NHRA that interesting anymore. Just look at the crowds, they have shrunk. I used to watch it on TV, I don't care anymore.
You are right!Its k-lling the class of pro stock motorcycle.😎👊🏾🌱
You didnt mention that Suzuki doesnt make the cases anymore. It has been years since they have made them. Just ask Steve Johnson. I remember him saying, afew years back, that they had to go to junk yards to find crankcases to use because they weren't made anymore.
Excellent Piece.
I’m from Nola and worked at Harley for a while after Katrina doing cop bikes and LE would stop in and have lunch with us mainly to see his buddy Eric aka East E bike racer well known in Nola
I think the big guys a.k.a. Vance and S&S should have there own class for them to race in....let all the rest of us have our time in the spot light
Great job explaining this mess!