Is Games Workshop getting dethroned in plastic production?
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
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This week, we look in to the miniature quality and plastic production of some of the wargame hobby's biggest. Games Workshop, A Song of Ice And Fire, Malifaux, Gloomhaven just to mention a few!
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Any discount code?
Why don’t you talk about Conquest, from ParaBellum company ? They are the main GW’s competitor for fantasy miniatures, and their mini come from the same polish plastic injector than your own mini…
Send me one!!!! Grandpa nurgle demands it!!!! XDDD
What's that mean campaign ends soon ?
@@HexYzeE the airbrush will not be available after the time is over
Bandai are king of plastic model production, but for gaming minis Atomic Mass Games is really pushing up against GW in plastic production with their Marvel Crisis Protocol and Shatterpoint lines. These are a true joy to build as well as paint. Definitely worth checking out.
Bandai are the top of what they do.
GW are the top of their specalism.
Bandai & GW produce different products, with different aims.
Both are great, but calling one better than the other is tricky.
@@zlobzor completely agree. Picked up a 10 dollar pokemon kit from bandai for the wife as a quick little fun project for us to do and I was impressed with how sharp the lines are, you could cut yourself it felt like on the seems.
If Bandai made a gundam tabletop war game it’s gg
I partially agree @InTheRedShirt, but I think they are doing something entirely different. They could easily swoop in to miniature models. They would then become the WWE of miniatures. Please know that I love wh40k more than gunpla, but God damn would that ever be something.😅
In the world of 3D Printing, they are both almost nullified in importance. Gundam kits have so many components while gw kits have models easily printed in one go.
The future is going to be interesting with what companies end up monopolizing. It hasn't happened in my hobby universe in many a full moon.
Akira, with the Canon sticker on the motorbike was amazingly dystopian😂 it's what I like to refer to when the conversation of Starbucks and Walmart owning planets 😊
Checked out Atomic Mass Games the other day at the LGS. $60 for a single hero model, comparable to a $30 mini from GW. GOnna have to pass.
japanese kits are by and large better than GW in terms of casting quality, instructions, and waste management. the plastic they use isn't as malleable tho, so conversion and stuff isn't as commonplace. that said, GW's constant improvement is directly responsible for other (western) companies stepping up their game as well, so it's a rising tides lifting all boats situation imo.
Most Gundam kits within the same "Grade" range will be able to exchange arms, legs, heads, etc.
That being said, most of the customization is limited to painting or adding LED kits.
I don’t build minis I just do scale modeling of gunpla and armor stuff so all I build is Japanese stuff. There are hardly ever any issues and you get a good amount of plastic for the money you pay. GW stuff is just so ungodly expensive! I wanted to build a tank but this tiny little thing was like 80 bucks! Wtf!?
@@Gundumb_guy all they need to do is make a specific alt timeline (or just use Universal Century) where there's a never ending war, ties an anime to it & tabletop gaming on top of that. It seems they're more interested in digital media beside the gunpla (video game), so idk if there's a market to it, but I believe they could easily sweep and wedge into the competition imo.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
Painting and LED kits are for the modelers wanting to keep the model mostly as is. Scratch building, engraving, kit bashing, photo etch, metal/jewelry parts , resin molding/printing, and straight up re-engineering parts are common when it comes to customization.
I'd disagree that conversion isn't common. Beyond a certain level of modelling, everything is converted, customized, reshaped, additional panel lines and pieces added.
Bandi kits are super well organized, the numbers and letters are laid out in a better way even in the cheap kits, you should get some of the low/middle tier Gundams
To be fair, you’re showing off a more than 10 year old Kingdom Death Monster Mini. They have improved tremendously in the last 10 years.
Fair enough
Completely unfair comparison the oldest kdm models vs current gw
they precised it. They said it got much better with resin too. The point is plastic here. And you're right
That is true but why not use something old to really push their point? It makes more sense what they have done.
@@R.J.MacReady1982 not really you can take most things from ten years ago compare it to something current and say look it isn’t as good
The newest sculpts from Warlordgames are insane production quality. 0 mould lines and everything fits and builds perfectly
Some of wargames atlantics stuff is really good too, bulldogs especially
Totally agree. I’m looking forward to getting my grubby mitts on the 3rd edition starter set. 👍👍👍👍
It could be because they have new fresh injection molds, I have bought miniatures from GW that are top quality without any mold lines, but then I got the exact same miniature 1 year later and they are not the same quality anymore, because the mold have been used so much that they have become worn and mold lines appear. And considering how much such a mold costs to make, I understand that companies use them as long as possible and I'm pretty sure that anyone who enjoys this hobby would rather spend a little extra time removing mold lines than pay double the price
Why can’t anyone else make stuff that looks as cool as 40K though?
@@BattleBrotherCastenthey look better 😊
You guys do know that Kingdom Death did not stop making minis like, 9 years ago, right??? Maybe comparing the minis that were out in 2015 to modern GW minis when they've both changed a lot over time isn't like, the most fair and useful way to go about it. Also Kingdom Death are much better at sculpting faces than GW, even on their old stuff.
Have been painting a lot of the newer Kingdom Death minis lately and have to completely disagree on your assessment of their quality vs GW. I’ve painted a lot of GW stuff over the years between AoS and 40k and their newer stuff is equal to GWs plastic.
The one thing GW is best at and it appears they’ve made a conscious design choice w/ is how they’ve been hiding joints so you have to fill less gaps.
Space Marines were not GWs first plastic kit, that would be their 60mm scale fighting fantasy models. After that they released plastic orc and plastic dwarf for Warhammer, Skeleton Horde, Daleks and Cyberman for their Dr. Who range and only then did they release the Space Marines.
Was just checking to see if anyone had pointed this out. Depressing when YTers talk utter crap without doing some basic research. :(
I was looking to see if anyone had mentioned the Psychostyrene releases... have to admit that I'd forgotten about the Cyberman/Dalek box and was assuming that the Horde was somewhat contemporary with the RT01 box (though, of course, the skellies must have been a good deal earlier... though the box I own lacks any date on it).
Archon studios make some fantastic plastic. I've been backing their Dungeons and Lasers Kickstarters since they began. Always getting better with every release.
They have been spotty with some kickstarters but stuff I got for HOMM3 bg is awesome.
@@Gajaczek93 Spotty how? Most of their in house production is sent early and to be fair to them, anything made in China will always risk running late.
Their claim to be early is more marketing than actual reality. They deliver more or less on time in regards to their kickstarters. The communication however post kickstarters lacks much to be desired.
@@ericdavis4964 They do a live AMA every second week on UA-cam. This has been going on for over 50 episodes which is over 2 years! You can ask anything on that.
@@Gajaczek93 I'm actually painting up my HoMM 3 minis right now (like literally right now, just waiting for some paint to dry on a mini from it), and these has to be some of the most fun minis I've painted in years. They don't quite match GW in terms of quality, but I'm actually enjoying painting them more than any recent GW kit.
I see you finally did get some kingdom death monster stuff. The plastic from the base game is over 10 years old and they are in the process of being redone. In my opinion, I feel like the newer stuff has kept up with GW.
To correctly compare the different plastic kits, they would have to be painted in a base color for all, if not the perception of the details is altered by the color but above all by the brightness
I'm sure others have mentioned but just as a correction RTB01 is nowhere near GW's first plastic kit. They had made the Fighting Fantasy plastics along with the Psychostyrene Dwarfs and Drastic Plastic Orcs years before RTB01
I just came here to say this.
Yup.
Me three
Me four
I have alot of Kingdom death models and i cant see what you are talking about them not having sharp edges. They are totally fine.
Yeah, it's unfortunate they didn't have newer products to compare because like someone said, they improved tenfold.
Thank you for your trust! ✌
You are the best! Amazing stuff and only getting better over time.
I can only say POLSKA GUROM!
You know you have too much ArchonStudio stuff when you instantly recognize one of their sprues. 😅 please send help (to paint it all)
I learned about Archon because of @Blandco and some of his videos. And now I have several D&L and the MOTU is coming soonish.
Like I said on your Deus Lair kickstarter, your stuff is on par - if not BETTER - than GW! Thanks for bringing some much needed competition to the field. Love your stuff!
I see the "made in Poland" stamp on those new minis of yours. Archon Studios is on the rise and quickly catching up with GW for sure. Glad to see another creator working with them. Their newest in-house minis for DND are top notch, if you haven't checked them out you should as they become available in retail over the new year or so.
I really like the style of the oldhammer metal minis. My dream would be to have that one mold style with the sharpness of the new plastics.
I know you didn't look at historical but Wargames Atlantic has been absolutely killing it with their new plastic kits
and they have a small but growing Fantasy/Sci-fi range as well
They are also slowly republishing Mark Mondragons Ironcore line. The leviathan is probably the most well engineered kit I’ve build. It even had screws to tension joints.
Great to see some Malifaux on the channel. My fav and main game for many years. Be nice to see you find a few models you like and paint them on the channel. Pretty Plezz?
Support your indie sculptors 🔥
While your comments about kingdom death were very fair. The base game minis are very old, I recently got the latest expansion, the frogdog, the minis are incredible! They've seriously levelled up
It looks like you were mainly looking at 10ish year old Kingdom Death stuff. Their new stuff, like the gambler's chest, is quite a step up. Of course to use the new stuff you still need the core game, which is old.
Poland stronk!
GW's plastic injection tooling is considered to the best in the UK, and one of the best in the world; it's fascinating how incredibly detailed their models are that they manage to squeeze out of the technique. Their raw material mix for the plastic is also a great mix of soft/flexible so that the models don't break when you drop them. It is really impressive, and helps you understand why you pay so much for the models.
The main benefit for modellers is the range of choice today. Back in the 70s the range of choice was vast. That's coming back and long may it continue. GW have their niche and followers.
Just started with Models from Corvus Belli, first time Metal Models but also the plastic kits I had so far ( a Tag and a Haetae ) are both awesome in quality and production
it's hit and miss at corvus belli, I've been buying infinity ones for years as it's my favourite game, but the quality can be hit or miss. sometimes the metal is missing some features usually on face. And the plastic, thermoplastic, etc is so unreliable. Either it's great, or it's not, they also change what material as if they aren't set on something so it's not consistant.
It's a mess. I'd wait for them to get their act together.
@@nameisbad no clue, so far Ive had the Squalos Mk2 and the Haetae HMG, aswell as a limited event model. Each one is fine so far, but thats also only 3 models I can base my opinion on.
@@Parthemonium Yeah, if CB could nail consistency and quality. They'd be the best imo.
I think one of the big reasons you see injection mold differences besides plastic quality is definitely the amount of injection points and the rate of injection. For the very detailed points, you want an injection point localized and fast as to flow easily into all the grooves. The legion molds may be very detailed, but the plastic looks like it's cooling before it gets fully into the grooves.
I reckon you guys should delve into the scale modelling side of things. The likes of Tamiya, Eduard etc. are honestly mind-blowing
"GW has the best plastic sets" is mainly a meme within the GW fandom. Nobody who ever had other plastic kits in their hands would seriously say that.
A Song of Ice and Fire is what got me into tabletop wargaming! As someone new to the hobby, I loved that the units were pre-assembled. But I never felt that my paint jobs were good at all, especially seeing what Miniac was able to accomplish. Then once I got into Warhammer and GW kits, I felt like my painting instantly improved like 1000%. Its so much easier to paint on models that were designed to be painted, it's not even funny. The ASOIAF kits lack detail on most of the models, and the plastic they're made out of makes cleaning the mould lines almost impossible. Still enjoy the game and the ASOIAF universe, but their models are really frustrating to work with
I think malifaux 3rd edition is great! And I kinda love the hodgepodge aesthetic. It feels very Americana melting pot which I think is what Wyrd is trying to go for.
Really disappointed we're comparing old Kingdom Death models to new GW models. :(
The new KDM models are mega, part of what got me really into it.
Yeah this one feels like they had weird choices for comparisons. Like I would have gone with Shatterpoint instead of Legion for a comparison. This feels more like picking popular games rather than the injection molds that are taking serious swings at GW. I get that this is an ad for their own minis, get your bread, but owning Legion and Song of Ice and Fire I wouldn't have picked them to throw down vs GW.
Seeing Gloomhaven minis was a good laugh, but it made me very aware that this could have just been a vid showing how their own sprues stand on their own or vs GW. For me a vid really showing off their sprues for the video length would have been way more my jam.
Nemesis not mentioned. I'm baffled.
Archon Studio makes some of best models I have seen in boardgames!
Lukas: I had a real hard time painting this one.
Emil: Cool!
😂😂😂😂
You guys are the best!
TBH I think if Games Workshop is a 10 you guys already look like an 8.5-9 as a starting point which is really really damn good. Those minis look fantastic painted as well as seen in a previous video.
I know the minis are probably being included in the paint sets to help sell them but I'd still be so interested to see you sell all those 3 minis as a standalone pack!!
God, it`s so fucking satisfying hearing somebody pronounce "vallejo" correctly
I used to live in Vallejo, California. It was pretty amusing sometimes to hear people try to pronounce it.
You guys need to assemble a gunplay/Gundam mini. Especially one of the recent higher end kits. Even their mid tier kits are lightyears ahead to GW. You would be truly astonished at what is possible on the sprue.
*gunpla. and yes, strongly agree here. though i'm not sure a 1 inch warrior is fair to go up against 1 "mini" that's 6" tall with parts on 7 different sprues.
The first games workshop plastics were not space marines.
They had “psycho styrene” dwarves and “drastic plastic” before the space marines.
Archon studio makes some of my favorite miniatures.
I'm very happy to see you guys keep trying to put more and more efforts into producing your own things and using this platform for creating your own stuff. Very cool to see it happen over time.
Archon Studio in Poland is the way to go. They are amazing.
49 years ago is when GW started not 50 years they turn 50 next year. And they started making miniatures in 1978 with co-funding Citadel Miniatures. That is like 46 years ago NOT 50.
Check out Archons upcoming Gamefound called Dungeon and Lasers: Porthaven, if your'e looking for miniatures for Pirate themed RPG, or a giant, customizable and playable ship. Or try their shop if you're looking for anything else fantasy related, inclouding, but not limited to, flying airship, dragons, gigants and dungeon buidling tile system.
You guys are the reason ive gotten into minis and will hopefully be painting ny first army soon!
always impressed with the quality of videos you produce. even as someone who has no current interest in the hobby, they are a joy to watch. praying that your passion continues to shine in your work, and for greater things in the future 🙏
You minies are insanes!! I really hope for you guys that everthing will go as you wish with your project!
Malifaux mentioned woo! I think the complaint about the different designs feels odd to me since they showed a bunch of different factions which would naturally look different. I mean, why would The Guild have a similar look to the Neverborn, Resurrectionists, or any other faction? Should Tyranids look more like the Elves then, or what? Part of what got me and my friends interested in Malifaux is that wealth of different designs, there are 40+ masters and their keywords all have their own design aesthetic, and gameplay of course. So, whatever aesthetic you like, I am sure there is a Malifaux character out there for you.
Also, I think that the sprue they showed was from Marcus' old models since they were showing the old Myranda design on the sprue.
Malifaux have cool minis! Absolutely!
The Complaint was about the Non-Matching Artstyle between the Factions because no matter how different factions are from one another they all need to look like they come from the same universe.
Crispy details are for sure important but another criteria i would consider is ease of assembly. Some Games workshop’s new plastic sprues are very difficult to put together, even with instructions.
I’ll receive your painting bundles soon and I can’t wait to paint your models with it. Great job!! Keep up with the great work!
Tbh, gundam/bandai stuff is the only stuff i've had that matches or passes GW in terms of quality.
Bandai is LEAGUES above GW!
They can injection mold a fully articulated hand in a single piece
New Airfix and Tamiya are at the same level of quality.
True that gunpla is top quality and amazing but you can’t really compare it to GW as we are working on different scales. For the most part Bandai’s kits are bigger than GW kits in terms of common kits (so example a 1/144 HG is bigger than a dreadnought a kit I feel most people field) so you get more room to be intricate in how pieces go together. You also have to look at the flip side to this at how GW kits have a lot more detail than a gunpla kit.
@@Shini122 That's fair. I'd like to see what Bandai/Gunpla could so at even smaller scale though.
I'd love to see these two put together some gundam kits and get their perspectives.
Durability is always an important aspect of a mini for me. I run a lot of public games that require travel and people handling miniatures that are not going to be gentle. Archon is pretty much top tier when considering durability and detail. Very high quality.
11:24 looks like the moulds for the Gloomhaven minis are old and worn, they were probably a lot crisper early on.
I can confirm that they were never good. Isaac Childres didn't want miniatures in his game, and they were added as an afterthought for the cheapest they could get away with.
I think the 3d printed master of Ashoka was bloated from over exposure and they didn’t care to catch it.
Moulds for plastic are machined out of metal not taken from a master, so this wouldn't be the issue causing it.
Well the new kingdom death minis (narative sculpts) are far better than the one you showed and I would go as far as saying its even better than gw in some aspects
I have a metal 90's Ratling sniper with a mold line running straight down his face.
Looks like he's been slashed.
Still love them.
Nice to see Archon making plastics now. I got one of thier old kickstarters(Empire of men) and was pleased with it despite a few issues with larger models(tanks warping/shrinkage).
I watched so many painting videos and listened to so many lore videos that I finally gave in and bought my first combat patrol. Feels like I am already broke :D
I think that the Drastic Plastic Orcs and Psychostyrine Dwarfs.may predate the RT 01 as GW's first plastics.
I ordered all three paint sets the day you announced them! I can't wait for them to arrive 😊
I'm a big fan of Archon's stuff and their progress last few years has been amazing. Excited for every new release they do!
For the minis from A Song of Ice and Fire, the bodies have that softer feel because they're cast in PVC, while the weapons are done with high impact polystyrene and then assembled for you. The details are great, but the mold lines can be a little annoying 😉
Yes Archon really has been pushing the quality !
I’m meant to be painting up gloom haven for my group. I opened up the minis and it went directly to the back of the queue.
As a super beginner painter, painting a board game mini felt like a relief compared to a GW mini. GW puts super high expectations on you as a painter. The tiny little barbarian dudes I bought to practice on had so much detail...straps, rings, buckles, skulls and talismans everywhere. I felt under so much pressure painting them, you can't just paint over that stuff with base coat and pretend it's not there, that looks terrible, and a lot it can't even be covered with just one color, you got to at least attempt highlights. Beyond intimidating.
GW at the forefront?
Have you not heard of a little country called Japan that makes GW's models look like cheep Chinese copies.
Wow! Love when my favs collaborate, Archon studios and Squidmar ;) dungeons and lasers is amazing 😍
Thank you for your visit at the Spiel in Essen! So awesome to see you there! I'm into Dungeons & Lasers and Reaper Bones (but there are no sprues) and the quality veries quite a lot but it improved over the last few years.
OMG❤❤❤
So nice to see your miniatures!!!
You dare suggest heresy guardsman!?
Woot, Limbo Mention! YES the minis are specifically designed so the target Audience, if they drop it, it won't shatter / break, as they are used for transport to peoples houses to play, like people take a deck of magic the gathering. That said, 1.5 has improved the quality, so when it delivers soon, we'll see.
Good video but what about Star/frostgrave miniatures??
I think Shatterpoint and crisis protocol are extremely good plastics also
I just assembled the mini's. They are really nice and went together smooth except the orc hand with scepter.
I still remember buying that first ever box of Space Marines. Along with the Rogue Trader Handbook back in '88. Both were very affordable.
How thing$ have changed.
To be fair to Gloomhaven, the popularity isn't because of the minis. The game itself is fantastic. They also were smart and only produced minis for the main heros. The enemies are all cardboard standups.
Slightly disappointed you didn't check out any BattleTech minis, but I know there are so many out there to check. Thanks for the video guys. When a new Squidmar video comes out it's an instant click for me.
Oh man when I was younger, my family started buying and painting warhammer fantasy. Wood elves were the faction I chose, and that mini at 1:11 brings back memories.
KDM is from 2015, so around a decade ago they were similar in quality compared to GW. Then GW improved but did detail creep...
Worth noting that the Gloomhaven minis have a rework coming down the pipeline
What always blows me away about Games Workshop plastic is the fit - just how well they go together.
The new push fit is particularly amazing with bizarre join lines which look really strange at first but when they push together the joins are hidden and there are barely any seams.
Back in the day (sounding really old), when most minis were metal, we used to refer to them in the store as "drastic plastic" with their severe mold lines. They were all monopose, and any individuality had to be done with conversions.
Yeah, around 32 years ago, I remember when individual sprues used to be 60p (€0.72) each, a Space Marine Tactical Squad used to be £5.99 (€7.14).
Crazy how the prices have incresed, not just from inflation, mostly because of "GW Tax".
Really looking forward to the tutorial to paint your new miniatures that come in the paint sets
Heck yea! Big fan of Archon's stuff they do with Dungeons and Lasers. Can't wait for their next Kickstarter and to see more of these Squidmar minis!
Love to see some Legion love. With new releases coming out I'm excited
Looks absolutely amazing!
It would help if you used Kingdom Death models from the last two years...
I stopped buying 40K a long time ago due to price. Id pick up your guys kit just to help promote the industry.
Definitely closing in on GW.
I just painted my first LIMBO miniature right before starting this video, hehe. that game has been sitting on my shelf for YEARS, but my youngest son wanted to see the fire elemental painted so I painted it for him. Pretty nice mini actually :)
Very proud of you guys! Taking big leaps! 8) The sprue and plastic looks se awesome
I was so upset when I didn't See anythong from Archon. They do amazing work and it turns out they are making your game! I'm thrilled to hear this. I love their D&L line.
Welcome to the University of Tabletop Gaming, you are now watching MINIATURES 101. Please Enjoy.
GW plastics are bang on. I’m personally not a fan of resin miniatures due to how fragile they are. I think the quality of your new miniatures look great. Can’t wait for them to arrive. 🤘🏻
Malifaux has some super detailed models. I have the ninja pack and it is 100% sharp detailed. You will be amazed at its level of clean casting.
Parabelum switched to archon studio for their production, the quality of their mini increased drastically over night!
Your models match GW in quality. Well done. Paint sets look amazing too
In my opinion, Warcradle currently makes some of the best injection plastic models, their new armoured clash minis look amazing - and their prices are great
I can't wait to get my paint set and the money in the mail whenever they decide to ship it.
The Sona Mini's look beautiful! I'm still debating which paint kit to pick up their all rad! 👌
Warlord Games be like: Am I a joke to you? Their plastic is just on the same level as GW and they just go for different area of the market- historical stuff. Not to mention how COOL they are with both their pricing, accesibility, 1 rulebook for entire game, using proxies and when I order 90gbp worth of stuff I get random 5$ sprue thrown in. And it's not like we're gonna get milked for "primaris USMC" and "Primaris Sherman Tank".