Raleigh Rollover - Seattle Fire Department - Seattle Video Production - Nuvelocity
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- Опубліковано 11 лют 2012
- www.nuvelocity.com
Raleigh Rollover: This video was shot by the Seattle Fire Department and created by Nuvelocity for training, educational and safety purposes for the annual Fire Department Instructors Conference in Indiana. We edited their footage into a dramatic and powerful story. www.seattle.gov/fire/ www.fdic.com/index.html
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30yrs retired and I can still remember way back in engineers school they pounded it into our heads, No matter whether it's a red or green light at an intersection you slow way down then half way through my years my Dept went to a stop at all intersections before going on. I never had a problem because of these rules. It does no good to the people waiting on you to get there, if you don't !
Whether.
@@margief1798 Thx......... lol
Exactly
So refreshing to hear other firefighters agreeing that this wreck could have been prevented with reduced speed and a careful driver. It’s the truth.
In my opinion stop at every intersection is not going to work in the inner city. It would cost more lives than it would save. Slow down and proceed with caution works good for me. If you are saying stop at all red lights, that's more feasible.
Highest respect!
Admitting failure is absolutely the most difficult thing ever...
This department is headed for great things!
Congratulations again!
I can’t believe the tiller cab isn’t reinforced better than that
It's designed to take an impact from above, not from the side. It could easily take a wall dropping on top of it but as you can tell it's pushed sideways and that's why it collapsed.
Lessons are learned by hands on experience!This was it for this crew. This includes everyone!!! Happy that all survived!!!
Looking back on 43 years as a volunteer, and a driver for most of that time, there were moments when I was very lucky that this didn't happen to my apparatus. I'm thankful that this crew survived, in reasonable condition. Every firefighter and every driver/operator should be required to view this video.
So true
The tiller came within a few feet from hitting the street light pole…the outcome would have been far more tragic! This crew is extremely fortunate!
Admirably honest descriptions of a near-tragic but certainly devastating and, at the very least, profoundly embarrassing incident. Both the individuals involved and the organization that employs them ought to be commended for making this painful public appraisal. The lessons drawn and corrective training that followed show a maturity of leadership too rare in America today.
Well said.
@@SpartacusColo I clicked to say “well said” .
So painfully correct I miss how it was growing up! mannerisms ethics morals integrity seems to become a blur I was raised to respect our Elders never to argue with your parents let alone your siblings and as kids we would fight but oh boy howdy did we get disciplined when we did also if someone was in need of help we had to run to tell an adult
Agreed, WAY to fast for that turn.
Can't believe the speed they were taking that turn, poor decision
Do u wanna then to go fast or go slow during a home burning
@@wyattscheerer6469 you drive to arrive and to the conditions of the road
U gotta pay attention and drive 50 at least
@@wyattscheerer6469 If you don't get there, then you don't get there. You can't help people if you don't get there. That speed was way fast for just a passenger car, let alone a tractor-drawn vehicle.
@@wyattscheerer6469 If you don't get there, you are useless to the call. He was going WAY too fast for that turn. Maybe you should watch the video before commenting.
I used to be a volunteer fireman for St.helens Oregon for seventeen year and I can't believe how much things have change in the fire service.
The last part of the video are points that ALL drivers should pay attention too.
Thank you for your service!
Glad that all of you are ok! As a 20 year firefighter and now the training officer I will be using this video in my classes. Thank you for posting!
Good lesson to learn! Seatbelts! Seatbelts! Seatbelts! Effective Driver Training!!! Sometimes it takes lessons such as these to learn something valuable! Im glad these members made it through and went home to their families! I teach this in my Drivers Training class!
holy cow guys, glad to see every one is ok ! i will def. keep this in mind when responding from now on !
A word to the wise is sufficient. Thank you for your service.
I have recently learned how to drive tiller on an antique (1989) Maxim TDA. It started as a bucket list item but has grown to be much more. I search for and watch videos like this to gain a better understanding of my role as a tiller man. I know that my technique and actions/reactions are key to the safe operation of my friends rig. Mostly we are in parades and static display at car shows, but still I value the safe operation to ensure that we get there and back to his home in one piece.
This is a very brave and correct thing to do, putting this out there for others to learn from! I'm so glad everyone was OK! Love from UK
"It was a structure fire and you always go a little faster..." WRONG! The more critical the run, the more important it is that you actually make it to the fire! When I used to drive, I probably went a little slower on a code 3 run...you have to get there!
TYFYS
I'm a 'civilian,' meaning my experience driving ships doesn't count for jack on this subject. I have witnessed I don't know how many times, Engine and Ladder units blowing through intersections in route to calls. I once heard a cop describe the boost to the adrenaline levels your own siren gives you, how it makes you think "gotta go gotta go gotta go!" in situations where you really should be slowing down for safeties sake.
Yeah, that big diesel motor can MOVE that apparatus (seen several Engines accelerating, pretending to be sports cars,) but if YOU crash you are not doing anyone any good even if no one is hurt in the crash and all you do is bend metal.
The Ladder 4 crew was very, very lucky once the laws of physics took over control from the crew ... no one died.
@@robertf3479 When its a red light
go slow
when its green light
go slow
when its stop sign
go slow
dont go super slow but go slow enough that you have time to stop.
thats what i tell myself
I can understand if they get nervous and want to get faster to an Fire if they also got a Report that People might be missing. But even then those Driver need to be calm and dont drive to fast. Its something that every Firefighter in Germany and most of Europe learns when they train for a Driving License, especially if they got a Truck License ( especially if they learn to drive rather heavy trucks over 20t for Special Vehicel)
@@alexandersalarms5380 I hear ya shipmate. It never fails to amaze me when people blow through intersections in front of Fire or Ambulance units when it's obvious they are on a run.
As I understand it, a small (older) engine can weigh 10 Tons with a full blown trailer borne ladder rig up to 45 Tons. They CAN'T stop on a dime. While it wasn't a Fire rig, I came across an accident scene where a 4x4 pickup cut off a loaded tractor-trailer. It took a while to pry what was left of the pickup, driver and passenger out from under the tractor. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to picture something like that happening with 'Big Red.'
They try their best to save your asses, so try to be a little grateful for the hard work they do for you every day for countless hours a year
British perspective: This is how to manage people!
As stated previously. You do not throw away highly trained people over 1 mishap. And it is self evident that the people involved are willing to take the notoriety and critisism on the chin, come to terms with their falability and poor decisions, correct their mindset and go again. And all for the benefit of the organization and it's people as a whole. They've learned the hard way so others don't have to. A very courageous attitude. But perhaps we shouldn't be surprised. Courage is their business!
Footnote: The guy in the SUV isn't fit to clean their boots.
Ultimate responsibility does not land on a civilian in a car who happens to be driving by. It rests with the lieutenant, driver, and tillerman. They were driving too fast for the conditions, blowing through a red light without due regard, and the lieutenant was not doing his job of proactive leadership and accountability. They should be embarrassed by such recklessness. They could've killed that other driver.
Yeah... And besides, what's 5 or Six Hundred Thousand Dollars for another Hook and Ladder?
I can remember my FD days, back in the day (60's and 70's) fire academy's were lacking in a LOT of areas and Drivers training was pretty much a suggestion. The Lt or Capt would yell at you if you were going too fast or too slow. It's a wonder there weren't more accidents and roll overs. We should all have driver training centers like the one the FDNY puts their drivers through.
Hell we had common sense back then
Did the driver really believe he was going to be able to negotiate that turn going that fast??? Never mind the fact he blatantly ran the red light!! WOW!! Thankfully nobody was seriously hurt
I think the whole point of the video was they were never trained correctly. He had no idea how it would handle going around a corner that fast.
PHILADELPHIA has tillers too .
NEWARK had them but newer rigs can negotiate the turns there . PHILADELPHIA streets have some extremely narrow ones however .
Tillers are not in anyway obsolete .
Great job making something good out of this unfortunate accident. Glad to see all our brothers and sisters made out ok.
Whoa! That was an amazing video in many ways. Sure glad to see that all involved have made a full recovery. As a former racecar driver, I know how easy it can be to drive over the edge without a second thought.
This video will be an asset to many. Well done!
GO SEATTLE!!
Truly amazing that no one was injured. Glad everyone was o k. We here at our house love all of our emergency personell. My son is a paramedic for 28 years.
Great video; so glad you guys were all ok
i have been a ff for 38 years now , both paid and volunteer, this should be mandatory watching for all fire apparatus operaters no matter what thier driving , including thier own POV's, if this dont make u think then nothing will , stay safe out there.
Another thing to consider, is that these runs are usually over relatively short distances. You can try this experiment (with safety measures in place).... take a 4 mile run staying not much above the speed limit and at least slowing down at cross streets enough that you could stop if needed. then do the run again at a speed flirting with breaking friction with the street, and rolling thru every intersection and red light. The difference in a 4 mile suburban or city response is often not much more than 30 seconds. The mission is to get there (main mission - get there) quickly (but not so quickly that you may not make it.) The other thing is if you allow yourself to get full of adrenaline anticipating the call, you will experience tunnel vision. Your mind is refocused on what is right in front of you and the (less threatening) peripheral vision gets muted ...(I never saw that bus coming). One thing about the "armchair police", they are calm and focus their thinking on driving. Operating an engine, getting radio updates, figuring out your route, etc. are very distracting from the 90% plus that the driver should be focusing on DRIVING. When I see videos of heavy equipment blazing down a midday street leaning on the claxon I just cringe. They are NOT getting there that much faster and might not get there at those speeds. The only way to truly, safely get there sooner, is to rush leaving the fire house (leave sooner). The videos where fire fighters are slowly walking to the rig, talking, and then mount up and drive like crazy is backwards. Leave sooner - rush into the rig, drive moderately. NOt the other way around.
Mister X Thanks. in some way I was bracing for a rash of sarcasm. I've also done long distance motorcycle competition when younger. same concept applies...leave sooner. If I was more in the game I'd push to teach this as a concept.
So very glad everyone was ok!!!
Thanks for what you guys do. Stay safe
I have been a volunteer FF for 25 years and everyone likes to drive the big rigs. Most of us have never driven anything bigger than a pickup prior to getting behind the wheel of a fire apparatus. So in our department we spend about 25% of all training hours on operation and driver skills for our apparatus. Driving skills should be as fundamental as donning your gear. Especially in a volunteer department where response is sometimes limited and anyone who shows up at the station could be tasked with getting an apparatus to the scene. We place plenty of emphasis on surviving the deadly elements of a fire, but how about how to survive the equally deadly ride to the fire. I am extremely glad that my brothers and sisters from Raleigh survived this potentially deadly lesson. Let us all learn and vow to make a real change in our driving habits and our preparations and training to make us as safe as we can. Remember...Everyone Goes Home.
Exactly I saw the video and it's painful to watch
wow. that's a wreck where usually nobody comes out of it alive.... but it was so incredible to see how humble these firefighters were and huge respect for them each taking responsibility for their part in the situational breakdown that led to the crash. but it wasn't an accident folks. it was a crash. it was preventable but I digress. I'm just glad these firefighters are still alive to save lives.
Wow I came across this by accident and it has just changed my entire thoughts on response. I will always now remember this next time I respond to a call.
Always easier to drive from your recliner. Like the arm chair police officer that tell us what we did wrong.
This is a great department and it was an accident. You don't fire or remove outstanding employees for one misstep.
jrrbrts1 that was a very nice comment!
Preventable accident
Your right 2020, totally preventable! I don’t think the driver even tapped the brakes entering the intersection at least from what I can see on the video, hopefully this apparatus operator has gone back for some much needed re-training.
I got 28yrs driving tractor trailers all over N America. 0 accidents & if I rolled my rig I would be fired in a heartbeat no matter if I was driver of the year. In fact drivers who drive large vehicles are held to a higher standard & get fired for less then what happened here. This was no accident, it was 100% preventable . Would it still be a "misstep" if people got killed?
Preventable? Yes. Fire them? No. I would be surprised if most of the people that are either bashing this crew or saying they should be fired had never done something as a driver that could have caused this. It’s awesome that they are doing this video, and that they aren’t making excuses. This is what we are supposed to do in the fire service: learn from others, and the mistakes we make today, we pray that we will not make again tomorrow. I would say that from this day on, this AO is probably the most cautious driver on the department. Hats off to these firefighters.
Incidentally, fantastic video training tool...should be a case study with the video at the various conventions....sobers you up real fast. Well produced and edited,,,just a great job!
As they say cameras don’t lie. You was going too fast
OMG, ya. Way too fast. Driver Effed up bad.
You may have saved more Fireman and others in all walk's of life that is a blessing. God Bless You All.
Around 1980 we had a mutual aid for a MVA in front of the next towns' station 2. Driver took off lost control and hit a big oak tree. There was a guy on the back step with his air bottle on. He was crippled from hitting the road. Another farther away dep't had the same ALF pumper as we did the driver took down 6 utility poles with minor injuries.
💙🙏🏽👏🏽 VERY thankful no one died❣️ MAJOR props to each of these firefighters!! We all make mistakes, and it takes a brave, strong person to admit an error, AND, to learn from it 👏🏽🙌🏽👍🏽 How incredible that these two departments, from across the country no less, are brought together 👏🏽🙏🏽💙🙌🏽
This video should be played at many volunteer dept's across the country. I took pride in my driving, and pump operation, etc. I never "stepped it up" to save a few seconds..
Accidents happen so people learn and survive the future! Well done video and Thank GOD everyone is well now👍👍💯🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Thank you for sharing your story
Awesome video glad everyone made it out ok.
Just glad everyone is ok!!!
Looking forward to tiller training this year or next... good heads up safety video
Wow! So glad everyone is alright. Seatbelts, ladies and gentlemen!!
Message from the Chief...agree with the comments about training & time behind the wheel. Bus drivers are on the road all day, & get very good at driving large vehicals. We don't come close timewise in our driving, so do tiller practice in a mall parking lot before or after their hours monthly-.keeps you sharp. Oh yes, 30 years ago I rolled a brand new Wheel Coach ambulance when I was cut off - but I learned just like they did to slow down. Adrenaline is a powerful drug - learn to control it!
Thank god you all are ok.... Cause of this video I am going to do more driver practice and training.... Stay safe.
As a volunteer firefighter/captain and in charge of e.v.o.c. training I would always make the drivers know that the call your responding to is not "Your Emergency" and you cannot help the citizens you are responding to if your dead from driving to fast or reckless.
And yes I have had to yell at my driver to slow down( the adrenaline can get the best of you). Glad they are okay and they are trained in depth with a wider opened eye now.
Guy in the SUV: "Holy...omg! I...am gonna miss the cutoff for breakfast at McDonalds! *floors it*" -.-
I’m glad these firefighters made it through.
Drove a tiller for many years and the wheels were 100% turned in the wrong direction for that turn at that speed. Glad all survived.
Ya, good stuff guys, lucky people !
We all get that need for speed on a call but we have to slow down and get there safe! even if the intersection is clear slow down and expect that there could be other traffic that didnt see you! thank god that you are here to help other people learn how to respond and get there safely your life and crew depend on your safty. They dont give those trucks away!
wow! safety first! seatbelts are a must in any vehicle!
I drove tractors,delivered trucks,drove tow trucks,We had a 35 ft tour bus I drove....The problem here, The Firetruck was going WAY TO FAAAST!..
It look like is was @ least 30/35 mph going around that corner!,That heavy ladder made that trailer TOP HEAVY!.
This took much courage for them to admit their mistakes & tell their stories.
Thank God they survived this ordeal .
Tillers have their place particularly in the tight streets of large cities up here in the NE but the question is have they become a show piece for many departments who really don't need them.?
Firefighters are a valuable resource. I always say a little prayer for their safety.
Thank God FireFighters Made It Through.Thank You The FireFighters/EMTS EveryWhere.
God Bless, so happy all is well.❤️
So glad everyone survived.
WINDSOR, CANADA....Across the Detroit River from Detroit, Michigan, USA. Almost exact same accident. A rookie driver out for some driver training. A clear, sunny day. A call came in for a medical emergency a few blocks away. There were 4 personnel on the engine. The Captain told the driver to drive to the call, considering it was a few blocks away, and it would have taken longer to switch drivers. As they approach an "S" turn, the driver doesn't slow down enough, and the engine's water made the engine turn over. It landed on its side. In the end, it was
It resulted in the driver being paralyzed from the neck down for life, a firefighter with severe arm lacerations, and a long lasting PTSD
It took a lot of courage for this department to post this video, and I commend them. As a former Firefighter/Engineer, I'm shocked that individuals did not have their seatbelts fastened. If I were to design a fire truck today, I would demand that sensors be installed in all stations with interlocks, preventing the transmission from being placed into 'drive' unless the seatbelts are locked in position. Additionally, that tiller cab should not have crushed so easily. I would change the specs to reinforce the Tiller frame and airbags, much in the same way as some cabs. Finally, I believe some measures could lower the center of gravity of the trailing chassis. While it's abundantly clear what caused this accident, my comments are centric to design versus training.
I am glad all of you are ok.and doing ok
Seen this video in my EVOC class in June and always told “never speed and slow down especially on turns to avoid a collision”
Thank God no one died... Good video!
Great video. Be safe out there my US family...
Thank you for that info...
It’s common sense 🙄
He had a red light You stop and make sure the intersection is clear then proceed Wow
Here in Virginia our pearce and seagrave fire trucks will not even start up if your seat belt is not latched
WOW so Glad everyone is Okay it could have been Alot worse God Bless u all
why fire the driver? if i remember his interview he had been driving the rig for 3 months. actual driving time in that period of time is probably very little. I think they are right MORE TRAINING! I have been driving large vehicles for over 30 years now and i still run into situations i havent been in before. one thing for sure he will never roll another one. expirence is always the best teacher, good or bad i think they all learned from this one. and hopefully with this video others will too.
That's a very wise statement, but in many occasions, the edge is pushed and pushed and pushed, and nobody says/does anything until something goes wrong in an unavoidably obvious way. I hope that wasn't the case here, but problems need to be nipped in the bud early in order to avoid this sort of problem.
That's so crazy I hope you guys are ok :)
Always remember when responding that it is someone else's problem. Haste makes waste, it's better to be a couple minutes late than becoming another situation.
First thing which caught my eye was the SUV just jets from the light and doesn’t even bother to stop to offer aid
Happened in Raleigh NC
that was a close one at least the firefighters and the captain/ the officer are ok
I've been doing the bigrigs and apparatus for 33-yrs now (never a scratch) and the biggest thing I tell new operators is Do Not Become Complacent. Slow down, look at the whole picture. Racing to a scene puts property and peoples lives at high risk and increases the chances of creating additional problems. And something else I'd like to see industry wide is a second brake pedal on the officers side of the fire rig and a third in the tiller cab. If the driver of such vehicle is out of control, there needs to be a way to get them back in control via another party. The video shot in this coverage was from a citybus and had either tiller driver or bus driver been 2-seconds off either way, a lot of people would've been injured.
Disagree, the driver needs to be responsible. End of story. Discussion over.
I drove fire engines for most of my career. I had the mind set that the public is doing what they do everyday while driving. Then I show up lights, siren big red shiney fire engine causing all kinds of disturbance. So really I'm the issue so I gave everyone the time to figure out what to do. I'm not doing my job if I don't get to and from an emergency safely. Crew and engine intact.
Interestingly enough you can see how the back-end driver straighten up his wheels when he should have kept them turned to the right, thus allowing the back end to find it balance point, but by straitening up the steering he allowed the weigh of that back-cab to continue to move in the direction of its inertia which was now perpendicular to the movement of the wheels. I know it was only about one or two seconds to react, but by the time he straitened up his wheels it was too late and the weight of the rear had no where to go but over rather than following the wheels if they had stayed turned to the right for another second or two.
Unless you have had practice with that type of moving inertia on those rear wheel steering trucks, you can make a bad decision in a micro second that you then cannot recover from.
TDA fire trucks are very important to those fire departments they serve. There is no doubt, based upon the video of this particular accident, that training was either lacking or practically non existent at the time of the accident. The good news is, these brave men and women will live to fight another day and that they will ensure a more safe response. Tiller trucks are essentially tractor trailer type rigs. The only major difference being, the rear axle is steerable by a tiller man. Balance, especially when turning, is crucial to the rigs ability to navigate safely through turns and of course unexpected obstacles.
It appears they were indeed in a hurry and no one on the rig thought about the consequences of rushing. Every single fireman lives to fight fires and save lives. However, they must first get there safely to do that. This is a very well done video and it clearly demonstrates the need for all fire departments, utilizing these TDA apparatus, to train constantly. I hate seeing fireman hurt. It bothers me greatly. They risk their very lives to save others and that should be praised and respected.
The safety precautions that Pierce took into account in designing and building the cab kept the roof of the cab from crushing the crew.
Pierce look at www.ferrarafire.com
this is what my dad sells the windshield in this would’ve moved cracked maybe but the roof would have stayed Pierce is a bunch of cookie cutters look at Ferraras safety
@@yoboi6236 nobody matches Sutphen safety though, they only make one cab for a reason
Firefighter to a firefighter thank God you're alright no all the way and I'm glad to see the tillerman walk away
Well actually the call to make that left turn was at the last moment. Remember there are TWO drivers. Failure to communicate and speed caused this. But fired, nah lesson learned they just need more training. This is Raleigh's only TDA. The rig was $750,000.00 btw.
You have to arrive to do anyone any good and without a doubt this was a hard lesson, but one that won't be forgotten either. That was scary to watch.
I can remember the day when a penny on and a driver smoking a cigarette the road caused a major accident of a Tractor Trailer Truck.
I had a friend who worked in the NYPD HIGHWAY PATROL ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION SQUAD during the early 80s and I was in the United States Navy assigned to The Armed Forces Police Detachment. A beautiful Tuesday morning, a picture perfect day. Then a Merit Gasoline Truck changed everything just to avoid hitting a stray dog. It would have been the perfect accident avoidance maneuver except for a penny. Just like in this video the turn was a left turn with the green light in favor of the truck. POP! dog runs out on to the Middle of the street. POP! Car in front of the truck brakes hard (never checked what was behind her) Truck extends into the turn. Recovering out of the turn right front tire skids on a penny and flips the truck into a rollover and slams into the car with Ten Thousand Gallons of Gasoline and Diesel fuel. The SUV had 21 gallons of gasoline. I was visiting my friend at his station house when the call came in from a precinct unit. So my Block (a military police personnel from every branch of service and an OIC) The police Captain asked us to respond with them. Just as we got on the ramp to the expressway we saw the FIREBALL IN A MUSHROOM CLOUD like as if a Nuclear Bomb was detonated.
So we really don't know what were the circumstances that contributed to this particular accident.
You must remember that back in the days when this accident happened, people had RESPECT for EMERGENCY VEHICLES and they yield to them. So in the norm, a responding fire apparatus chauffeur would have no worries about another driver blowing a RED LIGHT or obstructing his passage.
We were not even there to make any type of judgment against the firemen and officers who were involved in that accident.
UA-cam IS INFAMOUS FOR HAVING ARMCHAIR EXPERTS. Just remember that you weren't even there, Thus your opinion doesn't matter. You can be a police officer, EMS personnel, firefighters, long haul truck drivers or driving school instructors, YOU WERE NOT THERE.
Damn, that’s really really sad I’m from North Carolina and this is a day before I was born.
This ramping up of their training is SUCH a great idea...and ambulance drivers should also be required to have training, some of them drive like idiots! Years ago when I lived in a bigger town there was one ambulance driver who all the fire, police and other drivers kept yelling at to SLOW down, be more careful! He refused to pay attention, he just liked running red lights, stop signs, and sliding around corners! Was finally fired for it, and all the departments spread word not to hire him!
Everybody makes mistakes. We are all human. Extra training helps but does not eliminate the human factor.
Ive lived in raleigh nc for about 12 years and dont recall this happening
I was an apparatus operator for CalFire in the Mid-1980s and I was like, "WTH? They weren't doing this for the last .... thirty years?!?!" *** facepalm ***
Even though this accident wasn't the result of civilian drivers, it reminds me, as a civilian, to watch oncoming and cross traffic at intersections regardless of right-of-way.
Everyone can learn from this video, regardless of whether you're a first responder or a civilian.
Seatbelts for sure! Maybe airbags as well.
totally blew the solid red light ! there is no excuse responding like that What good are you if you don't make it to the call !
Tiller killer...nice!!!
Y'all don't get enough credit for the mentality you have.
It takes quite a lot of Speed to literally throw away a big Truck like those American Tiller Ladders, i hope they learned from that Incident. At least as long no one was seriusly hurt in that Incident back then and they learned in those 12 Years since the Incident.
You can tell by the skid marks that they were probably going twice what they should have been. Plus, what was the driver thinking going through a red light at that speed especially since they were turning. Thankfully they were all okay.
Speed Kills !
AND he was turning that fast on a red light.