@@ismisyafiq9523 It's obvious right. They can't. They can only do it in fusion. But SSJ2 should have been possible, like in GT. But they didn't train as much and it was peaceful. It's weird that they never used Gotenks in GT either.... could've made quite a difference.
@@Firemarioflower That doesn't make sense - fusions are simply the warriors abilities combined. Fusions don't have "new forms," so Goten and Trunks should definitely be able to pull off Super Saiyan 2 and 3.
Buhan is the strongest Majin. Gohan is the strongest unfused character. Gohan is stronger than ssj3 Gotenks, ssj3 Gotenks is stronger than super buu. Goku and Vegeta literally played rock, paper and scissors to fight kid buu. Goku didn't want to fight super buu when he had ssj3 under his sleeve. The only reason he accepted to go to earth and face buutenks is because he was given the potara earings. It's actually not confusing at all. The problem is because kid buu is the final fight, people think that means he has to be the strongest, when in reality if you use your brain and just read what the characters say, both the manga and the anime make it very clear which majin buu is the strongest and who between Goku, Gohan, Gotenks and kid buu is the strongest. The order would be Gohan, Gotenks and ssj3 Goku and kid buu. The reason Goku didn't win against kid buu is because it was easier to maintain ssj3 with his dead body, he didn't know how taxing ssj3 would be in his alive body and this is very clearly stated later on when he tries to gather energy for a spirit bomb but runs out of energy completely. Come on guys, just read what is being said on screen, a monkey would be able to understand it so I don't see why humans wouldn't.
I agree bro. If Gotenks and Gohan would have been there for Kid Buu, there would have been no issue beating him. There's a reason why Toriyama wrote them out of the final battle. It would have been too easy 🤷🏾♂️
The reason why Vegeta refused to bring Gotenks & Gohan is bcuz Goku was the strongest of the 3. And he was failing against Kid Buu. Not only that but Kid Buu like all other margin boo have an infinity sign on the power level. Meaning that power/strength, speed, stamina, endurance, durability & “ki” energy never goes down when fighting other opponents. This ability hack is greater than the androids infinite power core. Vegeta learned it doesn’t matter how many fighters you bring to fight a margin boo. If the fighter or even one fighter in particular is not overwhelmingly stronger than Majin Buu it’s useless. Vegeta knows this more than anybody else. He was simply stronger than Fat Buu. SSJ3 Gotenks was equal to Super Buu. But one thing must be accounted for that goes unnoticed. Super Buu was never afraid of SS3 Gotenks. They have equal power levels. So what does that mean? Even if the fusion never ran out, go tanks did not have the power required to completely obliterate and destroy Super Buu. What makes this far more evident is knowing this, during their fight Super Buu could sense Base Form Gohan from a great distance Earth to The Kaioshin Realm. But remember this, Goku is the first who’s highly suppressed power level was felt from the distance of earth to the Kaioshin realm. SSJ3 Goku could contend with Kid Buu. But he neva stood a chance at actually beating him. Kid Buu proved too strong. Goku fought Kid Buu twice and failed. He collapsed from exhaustion the first fight. And ran out of energy his second fight. Now many people think this is due to the weakness of SSJ3. But that’s not in fact true. It is because Goku was severely beaten by Kid Buu. But because SSJ3 is so powerful he barely felt the effects of being severely beaten. But it had an effect on his body which is why he could no longer recover energy he was far too much in a week in the state. This just goes to show the tank of a Beast SSJ3 is in the form of an adult body.
@@jordanglasper1064 I get what you saying bro, but I go by statements in the manga. Goku clearly stated that he AND Vegeta stood no chance against Super Boo. Gotenks was above Goku, and Gohan was above them both. It's just facts. And remember Vegeta wanted Gotenks and Gohan to be there, not hercule and dende
@@jordanglasper1064not only was goku the weakest as he HIMSELF stated that base super buu is stronger than him (the same superbuu that got clowned by both gotenks and gohan), but also that vegeta was mad that goku saved hercule and dende instead of gohan, goten, trunks and the others. Vegeta never refused to bring them, he WANTED them there to fight kid buu. Lastly, vegeta chose SPIRIT BOMB over ssj3 goku, gotenks and gohan and NOT SSJ3 goku over gotenks and gohan because spirit bomb is the strongest attack they know of that could kill buu in an instant + less chance of anyone getting absorbed with less people around (keep in mind that ssj3 goku was only relevant to kid buu and not even stronger hence why kid buu didn't even try to absorb him like he did the south kai, if gohan and gotenks were there and pushed him to the limit, he might absorb either vegeta, goku, gotenks or gohan) and finally, did you really think the fight would be interesting at all if gotenks and gohan were to just roflstomp kid buu? Where's the excitement of the final battle in that?
@@OmoJusu22 Select statements alone are negated by select feats. Feats and actions complement certain statements. Such as Super Buu + Piccolo was genuinely afraid of SSJ3 Goku. Whereas Super Buu + SSJ3 Gotenks was about to attack SSJ3 Goku. Once Super Buu reverted he instantly stopped his attack on Goku bcuz Goku held the overwhelming power level advantage. The major constant in the Buu arc is this, many different characters underestimate Goku’s power level because Goku is constantly suppressing his power level, until he fights Kid Buu. Goku is the only Z fighter whom is highly suppressed all throughout this arc. Kid Buu is the only Majin Buu who consistently was highly suppressed too. Until he fought Goku and Vegeta. For anybody who still wish to vacate the truth and what I’m saying. Kid Buu fought Mr. Satan, Fat Buu, Vegeta & Goku. All of whom are on a great difference in power level. Mr. Satan - 185 DB Kid Goku Level. Fat Buu is equal to Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan. SSJ2 Vegeta is Stronger than Fat Buu, but not enough to make a difference due to Fat Buu’s Magic & Healing. All of them are ants compared to SSJ3 Goku. Super Saiyan Gotenks is weaker than SSJ2 Teen Gohan. It isn’t until SSJ3 Gotenks is Overwhelmingly Stronger than SSJ2 Teen Gohan. He is equal to Super Buu. SSJ3 Goku was highly suppressed when he fought Fat Buu. This highly suppressed power level of SSJ3 Goku is technically weaker than the Maximum Power Level of SSJ3 Gotenks. Yet this highly suppressed SSJ3 Goku’s power level was felt from the distance of Earth to The Kaioshin Realm. Power Level Suppression is a constant theme throughout DBZ. However, only in the z Buu Arc, Goku is the only one implementing this technique bcuz he is the most powerful. Kid Buu is Goku’s reflection of power level suppression and Mastery. Only on a much higher level.
@@OmoJusu22 You make a good point.. but at this point in time in the story, Vegeta was not seeking to save them for their power, more so because of their connection to himself and to Goku as they were family. It’s actually a good thing that Goku saved Mr. Satan and then they, because they were key characters essential to defeating Kid Buu. And you must remember this, once they were returned to life on the wish of the Dragon balls, Vegeta outright refused for them to fight kidding, it’s because Goku was the strongest of the three. Knowing that he knew if you talk to bring warriors who are weaker than Goku because Goku was only one who had the closest chance at beating Kid Buu. And after seeing his preposterous power first hand, Goku was simply outclassed. If Vegeta brought Gotenks & Gohan, they would simply run outta “ki” energy like Goku, and they’d all die. This doesn’t get talked about much, but Vegeta ran outta “ki” energy tryna buy time for Goku too build his “ki” energy up. Doing so would be like a hamster and a treadmill getting nowhere fast. So Vegeta came up with a fool proof plan. The Spirit Bomb. Goku & Vegeta underestimated Kid Buu, and ended up paying for it, later on. Think about it. Super Buu had to become a fusion level fighter Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks Absorbed) just to surpass Kid Buu’s Power Level. This heavily implies that Kid Buu is around fusion power level at his Maximum Power Level. Make no mistake he would still lose, but the fact that Super Buu attained fusion power level just to surpass The Original Majin Buu, shows Kid Buu’s power level is Monsterous.
I am not sure about Gotenks ssj3 vs Super Buu. It could be that they both are equal. As we know that Buu did sense the enormous power of Ultimate Gohan from other planet, maybe this is part of his plan to let Gotenks win against him first.
Super Vegito > Super Buuhan > Super Buutenks > Mystic Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks > Super Buu > Ssj3 Goku > Kid Buu > Fat Majin Buu (might actually be on par with Kid Buu if he is super angry; lots of his power is suppressed due to the whimsical personality he gained from absorbing Grand Supreme Kai) Ssj3 Goku was stronger than Kid Buu in terms of power level. But two other factors made the fight much more competitive: Ssj3's effect on the living body, combined with Buu's regenerative powers Edit: And for the guy that thinks Gotenks is not stronger than Super Buu, just go read chapter 496 and 497.
Disagree with the Majins. Agree with everything else. Nowhere is it stated that the Fat Kai and the Buff Kai are one being inside of Kid Buu. It’s implied that Kid Buu was still evil after eating the Buff Kai by extension implying it was only the Fat Kai influencing him. He literally goes from soulless to having a soul, effectively creating a new being. Fat Buu. The Fat Kai is stated to be weaker than the Buff Kai but before he absorbs Fat Kai, Buu is stated to be too strong and uncontrollable to be sealed. This implies that Buu was indeed weakened before he was sealed. Him having a soul just don’t cut it lol the fact that Fat Kai’s personality is dominate over Buff Kai’s personality is further proof of a net negative. Super Buu is the bad side of the Fat Buu. They’re both influenced by Kid Buu, they still kill, but THEY don’t influence Kid Buu. He’s pure evil. The story says evil prevails. So Super Buu and Fat Buu technically should be equal. Super Buu just shows us more power because he WANTS to be the strongest. As stated in manga. Fat Buu fights for enjoyment. The only person I recall him actually killing is Babadi. He literally ate everything else and I’m not counting the human house lol Once Vegeta removes Fat Buu, no more Fat Kai which means no more Super Buu. The good and bad side of Fat Kai being gone, should mean Kid Buu either: gets more powerful due to the soul now being completely gone OR he just accesses more of his own power like Super Buu due to being a more loose cannon. Right after they make a statement regarding his power, he shows he can put out more than they could hope to stop meaning those statements should be invalid lol And Goku being only SLIGHLY weaker than Gotenks should still be able to win with the Spirit Bomb. Goku been training 7 years. Even being a fusion, Gotenks should only scale slightly above him anyways lol My two cents lol
I 100% agree with this list but I always am most curious about the theoretical Buuiccolo vs SSJ3 Gotenks. Based on Goku's comments we can assume Mystic Gohan is still ahead of BuuPiccolo and it is pretty obvious from the fights that Mystic Gohan>SSJ3 Gotenks. However the question would be is if the drop in power from losing the fusion would have brought him below just Gohan or also below SSJ3 Gotenks. My own theory is that BuuPiccolo would still have had the edge on SSJ3 Gotenks just not over Mystic Gohan.
Super Buu was pulling his most deadly attacks from Gotenks. It's akin to Hit fighting Goku, but pulling his lethal attacks. Does this mean Super Buu had full control of the fight? No. If anything, Super Buu almost died in holding back, not even once he tried to turn Gotenks into candy.
Yeah Gotenks or Mystic would have mopped Kid Buu. People forget Goku stated Gotenks could beat Fat Majin Buu when Goku only saw them as super saiyans. So he’s banking on a ssj Gotenks to wipe floor with fat Buu. This alone already puts ssj1 Gotenks far higher than ssj1 Goku or ssj2 Goku since ssj2 Goku is equal to Majin Vegeta who was weaker than Fat Buu. So if Gotenks ssj1 higher than Goku ssj2 it makes no sense for Goku ssj3 to be higher than Gotenks ssj3.
I agree with most of these statements. Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs super Buu tanks was just to show us how our class Goku was when it came to speed and ferocity even with his ss3. It was a fun little skirmish to watch. What will be more interesting is kaioken x4 used in a short burst with ss3 goku at least to defend himself better.
I don’t think SSJ3 Goku actually could have taken innocent Buu. That version of Buu doesn’t really use his full power in the fight and Goku had no idea how powerful his regeneration truly was.
Nah ss3 Goku was far superior, he was playing around as well and annihilating that version of Buu. Even if that version of Buu got serious like he did with Majin Vegeta, a Goku could handle it. Majin Vegeta was able to tank and enraged Buu so I think ss3 Goku would be a safe bet to take that fight more often than not
@@sky-oq5mr He was "playing around with that version of Buu" even though he fired a kamehameha at him? Lol, Buus powerlevel was growing, so the Vegeta fat buu was alot weaker than the one Goku fought, and the one Gotenks was stronger than that, Fat Buu was literally having fun with Goku, Goku wasnt "toying with fat buu" sure he might have been able to summon up some super attack that could have cought Buu offguard, but that doesnt mean he was stronger than Buu, I can dive into multiple instances of weaker people beating stronger people, or in a situation they could have beaten a stronger character; has nothing to do with being "stronger" lol.
@@sky-oq5mr you have to remember that Buu’s regeneration is insane and Goku can’t maintain SSJ3 for long. Fat Buu wins more times than not, or about 50/50 depending on how fast Goku wants to destroy buu, it’s also gonna have to be one hell of a blast to destroy him
well we have the 2 points of comparison but they don't really compare well since its directly stated the potara gives a bigger power boost than the dance and vegeto never even goes full power (spoilers vegeto's multiplier is way higher than gotenks), what we know is goten and trunks were strong enough to impress piccolo but not goku pre training, they then fused and got beaten by fat buu off screen while in base form, we then only see them fight again after their training and piccolo says they were much stronger, but we also know that goten and trunks individually were weaker than piccolo since when gotenks defuses in buu he starts to look like piccolo ( since hes the strongest current absorbed being) we know piccolo is still weaker than cell was since he thought he would lose to supreme kai who is weaker than dabora who is equal to cell, and we know fat buu is likely around 8x stronger than cell when comparing him to ssj3 goku. all this is to say if we say that goten and trunks post training are like half as strong as cell then gotenks with the extra 8x over super sayian ssj3 provides, gotenks needs to be goten+trunks to match fat buu and super buu is stronger than fat buu, if we be generous and say super buu is twice as strong as fat buu then fusion is only a+bx2 or a little bit more if you think gotenks was slightly stronger than super buu, alternatively depending how much weaker you think goten and trunks were determines how much higher the fusion multiplier was
Honestly the difference between Gotenks and Goku would be a lot bigger when seeing a certain dialogue in the manga. After Goten and Trunks do the fusion in the time chamber, Piccolo states that they could have a shot at defeating Super Buu who he knows is significantly stronger than Fat Buu (still unaware of his true power). He states this when Gotenks is at base and up to that point he still believes that Gotenks can only transform into SSJ if both Goten and Trunks fused while in SSJ which showed that he was confident that a base Gotenks could rival the power he believed Super Buu had. Since Goku wasn’t immensely more powerful than Fat Buu than I would put base Gotenks around SSJ3 Goku. This means that SSJ3 Gotenks would be at least 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
1:52 "This is Goku's opinion […]." Afaik, adult Goku has never had a wrong "opinion" when it comes to fighting. When he's not sure, he says it. Even if he was basing his guess strictly on his fighting experience, he still would have a few decades of experience under his belt. However, he's also a fighting genius, making his guesses even more accurate. N.B.: I'm only watching the animes. I'm watching them all from DB to the most recent one, currently on GT i.e. I finished DB and DBZ.
Let’s honestly think about this for a second. Gotenks held back the fact that he could become super saiyan 3 until they got trapped in the hyperbolic time chamber. At the time he had the power to finish buu if he did that from the beginning. Gohan had the power to finish buu with his elder Kai unlock, he got vindictive and sadistic because he wanted buu to suffer, he still had the power to finish buu if he did it immediately. What do these two situations have in common? Children playing hero. And now we’re going to talk about how they could defeat the literal incarnation of evil after failing against a stronger incarnation albeit weakened by an ego? Nah, I ain’t buying it. Goku fought fat buu and kid buu as a super saiyan 3 and both times said he could “probably” have beaten them. Let’s think about both instances, everyone thought buu had killed gohan and vegeta the first time and the second time buu had destroyed the earth and was wreaking havoc on the rest of the galaxy. Despite what was said do we think at both those junctures it wouldn’t just behoove goku to go super saiyan 3 and use a super kamehameha to finish the job? That’s why it didn’t happen because goku only probably thought it would work. He thought if vegeta bought him 3 minutes to recharge his power he could’ve beat kid buy but he was wrong because he didn’t account for having a living body all of a sudden. The spirit bomb destroying buu was genius because it was suggested by vegeta, a person whom had felt it’s ferocity when he was evil, and it was made up of all the energy of individuals buu had destroyed. No one person could straight up defeat buu and vegeta, and to a lesser degree goku, recognized that. In conclusion power scaling only gets you so far because if that’s all that mattered we never would’ve met gotenks because super saiyan 3 goku would’ve killed fat buu
Something I see everyone overlook when comparing the power of Gotenks and Super Buu: Gotenks clearly creates a bigger hole than Super Buu when shouting to escape the Room of Spirit and Time, which clearly indicates that he is stronger. Of course, that doesn't mean he's all around superior to Super Buu, as Super Buu has no time limit and has broken regeneration, but overall, I'd say Gotenks' odds looked > 50% on paper.
Goku said that he and vegeta had to fuse to beat super buu is because Goku had no way of knowing that after they leave he will go back to normal size, you can even see on his expression after leaving that he had no idea. I do agree that ssj3 Gotenks was stronger than ssj3 goku from the start of the saga but Goku got stronger when he was fighting kid Buu. Akira Toriyama pretty much confirmed that Goku was the strongest in the universe and the Daizenshuu 4 straight up said that Goku and kid buu were the strongest..so ssj3 Gotenks can't hold a candle to that
Strongest in universe just as bold as factoring beerus so don't take it seriously, gotenks is entity only born during fusion obviously they wouldn't factor that And so gohan ultimate as gohan might not known how to reunlock the form
Also remember that Gotenks can create physically sentient constructs from his energy, and break through dimensions. I dont see Goku doing anything like that while at SSJ3
10:27 I don't see the head-canon… It's literally what's being said and shown 🧐. He healed the damage he took from SS3 Gotenks's attacks in an instant and he mentioned he had a plan of absorbing Gotenks at full power and full timer. What more do you want? For them to explicitely mention it? There's a golden rule in movies and anime: "Show, don't tell". That's exactly what's being done here. The only way to connect the dots is clearly being shown to us. If it's not enough for you, then fine. You can choose to ignore it, just don't complain to the people that don't that they're makng stuff up 😑.
(A+B)4 makes the most sense lol They both around 5M so Gotenks would be around 40M in base. Slightly stronger than Goku at 35M. He doesn’t have to be hundreds of times stronger than Goku lol Goku doesn’t ever state the exact multiplier and it’s highly doubtful that Trunks and Goten are vastly more powerful than Goku post Yardrat. It just makes the most sense lol
@@maniacslap1623 yeah the guess work seems a bit much. I don’t think the base sayians are frieza level either so it makes sense. It wouldn’t be too out there to suggest A+B x 2 or 3 or 4 even if we use Sayian level goku ssj @ 150m for Gotenks and trunks (for example) 150m x 150m is insane. Going from a ssj transformation which is x50 to x150,000,000 is so insane lol
To me it seems like goku was just worried about vegeta, and if vegeta got absorbed by super Buu or if anyone else did, after they got out of super buu’s head. Goku alone would not have been able to match Buu. At least that’s what I think
SS3 Gotenks was in no way stronger than Super Buu. Super Buu was toying with Gotenks. He was sensing Gohan’s Ki growing the entire time and needed to plan to power up to eventually take him on. He knew of his absorption powers so he needed Gotenks’ power to fight Gohan that’s why he didn’t kill him.
@@JJJJ-he8bz Gotenks was strong but he was no match for Super Buu. Super Buu needed Gotenks power to overwhelm Gohan who was stronger than him. The fact that even absorbed Gotenks proved he was stronger than him. Super Buu couldn’t absorb a fighter that was stronger than him. He couldn’t absorb Gohan in his base form that’s why he needed Gotenks and Piccolo’s power and he couldn’t absorb Vegito either.
I doubt Super Buu would want to toy with someone to the extent that they beat the everloving crap out of him to the point where he is visibly shaken. Gotenks just before he depowered was destroying Buu.
@@SRT_DRE Again, Buu was a little terrified of Gotenks. That's why he was willing to absorb Gotenks; he knew Gotenks was strong enough compared to him that he would make for a viable power source. "he could’ve healed and regenerated" Gotenks just before he defused was talking trash to Buu about how he'd completely eviscerate him and Buu can't regenerate then? Two beings that were far weaker than Gohan individually somehow overpower him together. (No, we are not counting anime filler) If he could have absorbed Gotenks at any time, why not before Gohan arrived? Buu hates losing and would probably not want to be seriously injured. But no, he had to fight and get beat up by Gotenks when he had multiple opportunities to take Gotenks. Not to mention, Gohan is stronger than Gotenks so it's redundant to worry about him when Gohan far eclipses both Buu and Gotenks.
I found a SLIGHT plot hole. Gotenks may have defused from somthing other than ssj3. Gotenks was made in the time chamber where time moves faster. He also lasted a bit but defused before he could finish him off. There reasoning the time limit was shortened from SSJ3. witch is wrong from what we see with blue gogeta not being effected by such restrictions seemingly. SSJ3 had nothing to do with it they had less time from being born in the time chamber and lessened there time. in theroy we could have had gotenks for longer. BUT I could be overthinking it too much.
Also, Goku proves the extent of Buu level that he was able to beat was fat buu, which I dont truly think he could have beating as fat buu was never serious, having fun the entire fight, literally wanted to fight someone stronger than Goku lol
After getting beaten up by Fat Boo as Base Gotenks and then training in the ROSAT, Kid Trunks says Gotenks in Base Form is now equal to Fat Boo. SSj3 is 400x multiplier from base. Piccolo establishes Gotenks SSJ3 is stronger or at least equal to Super Boo in raw power, and that it was messing with Super Boo mentally. That means Super Boo is a little less stronger or exactly 400 times stronger than Fat Boo, who himself was roughly equal to or stronger than Goku SSj3.
Cell is solar system he isn't even Ssj 2 based gotenks scale higher than cell based gotenks around multi solar Ssj3 universal or multi universal kid boo is weaker than Super boo but he could destroy the Kaioshin realm in a *poof*(kaioshin realm is a univers size ) gotenks scale higher than kid boo
These power scaling terms are ridiculous. Yes planetoids have been destroyed since early Dragonball but that doesn't mean it makes for a good story. Toriyama is a gag manga artist making things up as he goes and he wrote himself into a corner by taking huge leaps in power, aka the emperor of all the known universe being weaker than two cyborg teenagers built by a former human. Don't take it so seriously, he doesn't.
@@D4C_Requiem ss3 gotanks is definitely not universe level lol, he's at least multi galxcy level plus, kid buu is low multi galxcy level and yes super buu is stronger then kid buu but not by a lot..he's like low multi galxcy level but a lil bit more stronger
Also I agree that goku in buu saga is not stronger than super buu but it is confirmed by Toriyama, Vegeta and the freaking narrator say that after the kid buu fight goku is the strongest in the universe until super when we find out about the other universes and gods of destruction.
Always go by the manga, never by the anime when it comes to DBZ, particularly when there are contradicting info. You default to the manga. Only thing the anime might be nice for is explaining stuff that the manga hasn't explained.
I mean you have shit in the anime like Piccolo performing better than Vegeta and Trunks at fighting the Cell Jrs (which never happened in the manga). And in the anime you have Goku saying "I can handle you now" when Buttenks expired vs the manga you have Goku saying "Gohan can handle you now." The anime can change stuff that is not part of the author's intent.
@@GrubKiller436 yeah I agree but it was stated by toriyama in el manga legendario or daizennshu 7 if I remember correctly. But yeah the anime can be weird at times like when goku got that infinite speed feat in hell
@@crabraveclan4645Lol, "strongest in the universe" via a technique that isn't using his own power, and having his power restored mid power struggle? Nah, I'm not convinced.
@@gangstagummybear3432 not convinced by Toriyama? Did you even read the comment or did u read the first sentence and decide your favourite gohan’s power had been slandered so mercilessly?
just like how kid buu was slightly weaker than goku, but goku couldnt close out the fight. gotenks probably wouldnt be able to finish off super buu in the like 5 minutes he would have before defusing if he tried to go all out from the jump. sure goku was holding back, but its still likely he wouldn't have been able to completely obliterate kid buu quickly. also people often say super buu is the strongest unfused buu, but people forget super buu isn't an unfused buu, every version of buu except kid and evil buu are fused with the grand supreme kai.
1) Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is equal to Super Buu. Not Stronger than. And the reason why we know this, is because anybody stronger than Super Buu, he feels inferior to and he’s angry about because they possess something superior than himself. Meaning they also have the ability to kill him. 2) Super Buu was never afraid of SSJ3 Gotenks. Super Buu is only afraid of Z fighters who are superior to him. Not equal to. 3) Super Buu is afraid of Base form Gohan. 4) Super Saiyan 3 Goku & Gohan are Overwhelmingly Stronger than Super Buu (Piccolo Absorbed). 5) All filler in Kai is canon. I really so like I need to make an actual UA-cam video explaining is, because you guys want to use certain filler for your evidence, and then go against certain filler to delegitimize evidence. All filler in Kai is canon. This was stated by Akira Toriyama. That’s why the old school DBZ anime is not canon. 6) and yes when they were inside of Super Buu’s innards, weird to say.. Goku’s had no idea they would ever turn back to normal. That’s why the implied emphasis on we can’t go outside of Super Buu “like this” is on their microscopic size. Goku’s had no idea if they would return to normal size. But because super boo was dying and his insides was destroying themselves he and Vegeta had no choice but to grab their friends and leave not knowing if they will return to normal size or not. Anybody, and I mean anybody who keeps on trying to legitimize Goku as the weakest out of the three, do not know proper power scaling and are being very disingenuous to the story in both the anime and manga because there’s certain things that happen in one and things that don’t happen in the other, but they complement each other because they are two rivers that go apart and come back together as one in unison. You and many other cotton creators keep on trying to paint a narrative that is not true. Any time is something that’s not true you had to put headcounting in it. That’s funny. Something that does not require a head cannon is this, SSJ3 Goku versus Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks Absorbed) showed Goku perform much better versus this version of Super Buu, than Gohan. If this same filler showed Gohan performing better than Goku you would use it obviously so, but it makes no sense to except one filler scene and deny another, because as I stated let me allow me to reiterate all filler scenes in Kai are canon. Not only are you adding insult to injury you’re saying that go tanks somebody who is much weaker than Super boo plus piccolo is stronger than Super Bowl. That’s head cannon right there because there is nothing in the manga nor the anime that suggest what you’re saying. There’s a lot of head cannon in here but little to no evidence pointing toward what is actually true which is this. Goku is not only stronger than Gotenks, he’s Stronger than Gohan. The final nail in the coffin at least to delegitimize and expose your argument is this. Super Buu + Piccolo is Stronger than just Super Buu alone. Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks Absorbed) is about to attack Goku. Goku is rightfully scared, both he and Gohan are no match for this current version of Super Buu. Unexpectedly, Super Buu reverts into Super Buu + Piccolo. This is when Goku is no longer scared but is extremely confident. I’m the Manga Goku says “Kinda disappointing”. This heavily implies that Goku is superior to Super Buu + Piccolo. In the anime Goku is far more direct. He tells Super Buu (Piccolo Absorbed) “You don’t plsn on beating me like that do you?” Mind you, this is Super Buu with the stolen power level of Piccolo. No matter what anybody says, they cannot explain away this power scale feat by Goku vs Super Buu + Piccolo. This is poses any power scala who tries to put Goku is the weakest. Not only that but the DBZ movie 13 wrath of the dragon follows the power scale of the Buu arc perfectly. This movie before any other is actually Canon, because it takes place over one month in the 10 year timeline after the defeat of Kid Buu. Kid Buu specifically is the reference point of power level, specifically moving forward in Dragon Ball super. Anybody who wishes to negate or overlook a reference point is being very disingenuous to the hierarchy of power that was established inside this arc.
SSJ3 Goku overwhelmingly stronger than super buu with piccolo absorbed? Lol cope, just because Goku was confident and was disappointed in buu doesn’t mean he can beat him. He was confident because gohan was there and gohan could beat super buu with piccolo absorbed. If you’re referring to the dub, that was an error, he never says he can take on super buu piccolo absorbed. And Goku stronger than gohan? How does this even make sense? Why would elder Kai and supreme Kai bother training gohan then if Goku could just go and beat super buu by himself? Elder Kai could have given Goku his life at any moment, and even Goku was surprised at gohan’s strength when he powered up. And to end it, in the manga, Goku even says to super buu piccolo absorbed “gohan can handle you now” why wouldn’t Goku just say that he can handle him? Why say gohan’s name at all? Why not just take on super buu if he’s stronger? Keep coping
I always laugh at Goku stans that claim, "Goku did better against buu with gotenks and picollo absorbed than Gohan" let me burst your bubble fanboy, the anime is significant and of all of the anime only additions, the first part of the gohan vs buu fight and the goku vs buu fight were needed. If we compare the 2 fights, Gohan's fight vs buu was separated into 2 parts, the first part was him not using picollo's mind, the second was using picollo's mind and all of the borrowed attacks from gotenks and picollo. There are elements I will be glad to dive into of why Buu with gotenks and picollo absorbed seemed alot stronger compared to Gohan than he actually was, the first part of Gohan and buu's fight would have been that the whole time without picollo's mind, Gohan was able to go tit for that with Buu power vs power, that is what the first part of the fight showed, gohan's attacks were still very much able to hurt Buu, that is why he opted for dodging attacks than blocking and if not, even a one handed ki blast he needed to defend against at the very least to deflect it, for gohan to go pretty much the entirety of the 30 minutes with buu, on the losing end and have less battle damage than goku had vs an equally powered vegeta, despite buu hitting him onscreen with atleast 4 energy based attack including big ones like a special beam canons and super ghost kamikaze attack which gotenks said when he turned ssj3 that super ghosts power has increased just as much as his had, and it still didnt take gohan out or atleast blow his gi off which he had all of other than some slightly torn parts, everytime goku wore that gi, it looked worse than gohan's did at the end of their fight. Their is one big detail of you people that claim, "Goku did better against buu than Gohan did" lol, that is a funny one a key detail left out is, Buu didn't want direct smoke with Gohan, after the second part of the fight when he began using picollo's mind, his fighting style was either luring Gohan into attacking them counter attacking, or ranged energy-based attacks, or attacking once Gohan was already off balance from some missed attack after being counterattacked, from how i looked at the fight, Buu would have never engaged Gohan initially, not hand to hand, go watch the fight for yourself, it was a bunch of counterattacks and ranged energy-based attacks, whereas with Goku, he was fully willing to not only engage Goku directly, but he was willing to take his energy-based attacks no problem. Your boy Goku gave him a powered up energy blast, you know blasts are using alot more of someone's strength if they are firing the blast with their energy aura up, which goku did have his energy aura up when he shot a distracted Buu, it didnt do anything lol. So Buu fought like a biatch vs Gohan and like a g vs Goku who he never needed to absorb anyone to beat.
I cant believe people actually think SSJ3 Goku was stronger than Ultimate/Mystic Gohan or SSJ3 Gotenks SSJ transformations are a mutiplier. IF your base is stronger the SSJ transformation is stronger. Eg. Vegito's SSJ 1 transformation is much stronger than any version of SSJ 3 because his base is so strong. Gotenks in base fought fat buu about as well as SSJ2 Gohan. That is how strong Base Gotenks was. Kid Buu is also clearly much weak than even base super buu. Goku explicitly says, when Super Buu's gotenks powerup disappeared due to them defusing and Piccolo was the main power source, that "now gohan can beat you" He doesnt say either of them could, he says Ultimate Gohan could
I don’t understand why Gotenks wasn’t used more he surpassed Vegeta when they were young going super sayin 3. You’d think as they got older their power would increase as well and pose a serious threat. Wasted if you ask me lol I just thought is my was awesome.
Just compare base Gotenks to base Goku. Their SSJ3 form would be 16x more powered up than their base form. Goku never fought against Super buu properly, but Gotenks sure did and it just looked like Gotenks had the upper hand. But buu wasn't even scratched nor did he fear Gotenks. Super buu was just toying with Gotenks as we can clearly see he never got tired or received any damage after the battle. Gotenks used all of his best moves, yet buu didn't have to use any of his best move against Gotenks. Now looking at Goku, he did say that he and Vegeta didn't stand a chance against Super buu at all. But mind this that Gotenks was and will always be overconfiden, unlike Goku and Vegeta. There isn't a fight that Gotenks hasn't been scared or has said that his enemy has an upper hand. As Goku SSJ3 fought Kid buu, who is far stronger than Super buu, Goku himself said it that his speed, strength, power, everything has almost doubled since his last fight with him, which clearly indicates Super buu, Butenks or Buuhan. Either way Kid buu is the strongest one he fought. He just underestimated Kid buu before they destroyed the potara and even states that they should've fused. If Kid buu was weaker than Super buu then they'd just bring in Gohan with the wish and end the fight. But Vegeta and Goku both knew that they'd just lose, even Goku, Vegeta, Gotenks and Gohan fought Kidd buu all at once. Either way, Goku did put some fight with Kid Buu, who is far more powerful than Super buu. Also when Supreme kai and Goku sees Gotenks in their SSJ3 form for the first time, Supreme Kai asks goku about the looks and asks Goku if the boys looked like that due to fusion, where Goku explains SSj3 form to Kai. Kai then asks Goku if Gotenks is stronger than Goku where Goku clearly replies " Well I could do it too, but these boys, they've pushed themselves to a point where I couldn't even reach my entire life" This clearly indicates that Goku doesn't wanna spill the truth and say that he's stronger than Gotenks. His words are true though. He never reached SSJ3 while he was still alive. That's the meaning of his phrase. Everything clearly indicates Goku is stronger than Gotenks though.
Gotenks ssj 3 and Gohan was strongest at the end of Buu. That saying they would of still lost to kid Buu and Ssj 3 Goku because of lack of battle experience. Dragonball super proves this point already. Vegeta ssj 2 easily pass Ultimate Gohan the 2nd Beerus hit Bulma.
No, he never almost killed Super Buu. Super Buu was toying with him. He told Gohan he sensed his power growing and knew he would eventually have to fight him. He needed Gotenks so he could absorb him that’s why he didn’t kill him.
@@tomcollierblognation136 no, he didn’t. Buu was toying with him. Go watch the episode again. He was no match for Super Buu. Super Buu was sparring with him.
@@SRT_DRE no u go watch the episode again buu was getting smacked up. But then again....u probably think ssj3 goku was stronger then ultimate gohan don't you? Or better yet u probably think kid buu was stronger then super buu,.. right?? Lmfao
@@tomcollierblognation136 I watched the entire saga last week. Buu was much stronger than Gotenks. He was more worried about Ultimate Gohan, fool. He used Gotenks so he could absorb him when Gohan showed up.
I think ssj3 Gotenks is 3 times stronger than Goku ssj3 If ssj3 Gotenks have the same fighting experience as Goku and doesn't play around with his techniques anymore.
Well, we know SS1 Gotenks is equal if not stronger than SS3 Goku. Goku says so. Then they train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and say they got so strong they won't need SS1. Piccolo believes them btw. If this is true, Base-Gotenks(post training) is relative to SS1 Gotenks(before training). Meaning Base Gotenks is relative to SS3 Goku. Since we factually know SS3 is 400x stronger than the base, SS3 Gotenks can actually be 400x stronger than SS3 Goku.
@@marinomele4575 Yes he is stronger than Ssj3 Goku, there's a lot of chances that he can destroy Super Buu but he didn't do it because the kid was cocky and wants to try his every tricks he learned, in DB battle experience is more important than power, that's why Goku didn't pick trunks and goten in Tournament of power.
But he did wanted to absorb him to defeat gohan implying he was lot useful variable in equation than just being" I was using 5% of my power until this point"
@ohhellwhereami2574 Gotenks is useful for sure his power level is high. Not even Goku or Vegeta were a Match for Super Buu. People try to make Super Buu seem weak so they can belittle Gohans power.
Man I love ur DBZ videos and I'm ur 1# fan but I have to disagree with you bro, Vegeta is not a ss2, he only obtained ss2 when he became Majin Vegeta, there are signs when Goku and Gohan are at ss2, constant blue electricty, thicker and longer hair, two or three banes compared to 4 or 5 banes wen at ss1. Vegeta has nun of the signs , now I understand it's hard to tell due to Vegetas type of hair style lol so thats what my research and studying is telling me , look at the evidence people ! Don't just say wat u think or wat u want lol
Gotenks was stronger than ss3 goku And kid buu but trunks and goten have little to no fighting experience so would probably lose to both but raw power he definitely got it
Nah sorry but you lost me at Super Buu versus super Saiyan three Goku. basically this power scaling hinges off of who is stronger super buu or kid buu. and kid buu is leagues and league and leagues above Super buu. Super Saiyan three Goku was swapping hands with kid boo, yes kid buu was gaining the upper hand, but he was still going toe to toe with him, so are you trying to say kid buu is weaker than super buu? Goku mentioning that they will be defeated when they leave Super Buu is either a plot hole or something else because there’s no possible way super Buu is stronger than kid buu. Yes BUUHAN is stronger then kid buu, but not super buu. I have to disagree with you there Goku super Saiyan three is way stronger then base super buu
this was a reply originally, but figured it was worth its own comment. question: what's the fusion multiplier? Im only using in manga feets here, no data book statements as I still dont really think the data books are that reliable. well we have the 2 points of comparison but they don't really compare well since its directly stated the potara gives a bigger power boost than the dance and vegeto never even goes full power (spoilers vegeto's multiplier is way higher than gotenks), what we know is goten and trunks were strong enough to impress piccolo but not goku pre training, they then fused and got beaten by fat buu off screen while in base form, we then only see them fight again after their training and piccolo says they were much stronger, but we also know that goten and trunks individually were weaker than piccolo since when gotenks defuses in buu he starts to look like piccolo ( since hes the strongest current absorbed being) we know piccolo is still weaker than cell was since he thought he would lose to supreme kai who is weaker than dabora who is equal to cell, and we know fat buu is likely around 8x stronger than cell when comparing him to ssj3 goku. all this is to say if we say that goten and trunks post training are like half as strong as cell then gotenks with the extra 8x over super sayian ssj3 provides, gotenks needs to be goten+trunks to match fat buu and super buu is stronger than fat buu, if we be generous and say super buu is twice as strong as fat buu then fusion is only a+bx2 or a little bit more if you think gotenks was slightly stronger than super buu, alternatively depending how much weaker you think goten and trunks were determines how much higher the fusion multiplier was. now vegeto's turn lets say ssj vegeto was going all out (even though he definitely wasn't) goku here is half of super buu in ssj3 meaning goku is 8x weaker than half of super buu in ssj1, lets say vegeta is around the same. as you know vegeto only uses ssj1 against super buu, meaning goku+vegeta brings them to 4x weaker so they need atleast an 4x to match super buu, oh right buu also had gohan piccolo and goten and trunks absorbed, goten trunks and piccolo probably dont matter much, but gohan is likely around double base super buu's power so super buu would need to be 12x stronger than ssj goku so vegeto at minimum needs to be goku + vegeta x 12 and cmon, thats only to even out the fight, lets double that since vegeto dominated, to a a+bx24 and thats probably still too low. in summary: its not close dance: A+Bx2 Potara: A+BX24
This is just simply not the case. We never see goku vs super buu so we cant base it on that. The fact of the matter is, we do see and hear from goku that all along he could have wiped the floor with fat buu in super saiyan 3, and his only limiting factor is that he struggles to maintain the form cause of its wicked energy drain, which gotenks also had seeing as it only lasted 5 minutes. Goku has not only had more experience with the form, and while i wouldnt put him leagues above gotenks, that and his decades of fighting experience simply put him just above gotenks. Goku even mentions while in the world of the kais, that the boys have reached a point he didnt until his life was over, and doesnt mention that they are stronger so at most they are as strong.
You're forgetting the reason why we never see that fight is because Goku runs from it. There's no grey area. Gotenks proves to be superior to an enemy Goku is scared to fight... Even when teaming-up with Vegeta. Gotenks is not only stronger than Goku, but stronger than Goku teaming-up with Vegeta.
@@marinomele4575 goku doesnt run from the fight. He runs from buuhan but thats an entirely different case. Super buu and buutenks and buuhan are on entirely different scaling...
Goku says in the earlier part of the arc that "maybe he could have beaten him" then later as Toriyama was trying to do some last minute changes to try to redeem Goku and Vegeta, and NOT make them look like the fodders they were, he added in alot of bogus wording, and terrible power scaling to make them look stronger than they should have possibly been; I have no time to even dive into how bogus the powerscaling in the last like 16 episodes was, so later on as part of this, as Akira created his new Buu that shouldnt have existed, Goku claims, "i could have beaten the fat buu" lol, that was so weird and such a weird excuse for a loser in my opinion, being able to beat someone doesnt truly mean stronger than someone alot of times, heck in the beginning of the arc, Goku and Vegeta were making it seem as if the power difference there may have been wasnt the true factor that made Gohan unable to beat Dabura, but his fighting skills not being fresh and polished current, he had lost his fighting sense. The fact that the most Goku was able to do, was pretty much the most Vegeta was able to do, though he never damaged Buu as bad as Vegeta, or had him out of commision as long as Vegeta did, yeah no, Goku was a product of sh1tty end of Z powerscaling is all.
Bruh listen, when u say Super Buu, we’re saying the one that fought Gotenks. He would win easily. Why? Fusion isn’t as big of a bump as u think and Goku was a lot more powerful than u think. Because they never knew the depths of Buu’s power and Goku was strictly referring to his dead self and Fat Buu. He didn’t know he was coming back and didn’t know about Super Buu. So, already Super Buu is leagues above of everyone lol He was legit more concerned with getting out of the Time Chamber than fighting Gotenks. He was never serious. Once he senses Gohan, he comes up with a plan for annoying ass Gotenks. Next, it’s only two times we know Buu to absorb someone weaker: South Kai and Piccolo. It’s not until HE states Gohan is stronger that we KNOW someone is actually stronger. Him saying he needed Gotenks power isn’t saying he’s weaker, he’s just saying he needs that to surpass Gohan. Once he did this, only Vegito stood a chance. Now on to Goku. After training 7 years in the afterlife, at the beginning of the saga, Goku and Vegeta are undoubtedly the strongest. By a mile. How they suddenly 100s times weaker than fukkin Gohan and Gotenks lol Once he gets his life back, he starts moving different. He HAS to fuse against Buutenks. No chance there. Then Gohan gets absorbed and he’s straight desperate. He’s facing down Buuhan with only Mr. Satan there. Vegeta saves the day. The rest is history. At no point in time before Buutenks did Goku ever have access to his full power. Now we scale, excluding Buuhan, Buutenks and Vegito. Wait for it… Kid Buu=Gohan>Buucolo>Super Buu=Goku>Gotenks With the equal signs being roughly. This fits the narrative because if the power gap isn’t that big between characters, Goku coulda knocked off any Buu had he used the Spirit Bomb. Gotenks showed us he is on that level RAW power wise but he never showed us that kinda technique, as far as gathering strictly Genki and using it as an attack. Remember, they’re all pretty relative in power and we see the whole team minus Piccolo blast Buu to shyt multiple times using regular Ki. it makes a lot more sense WHY Vegeta and Goku, more seasoned fighters, chose to fight Kid Buu even though he was relatively more power than both of them. It also explains WHY they didn’t wish for Gohan or Gotenks. They’re only relatively stronger. Not enough to make a difference. All that to say, without plot armor and strictly going off ability, Gotenks getting clapped. And if u believe that Super Buu got stronger by absorbing his good side I HOPE u think Kid Buu would get even stronger after removing it altogether…just saying lol ss3 Gotenks could definitely beat Fat Buu. Super Buu was was too much for him to overcome.
Want to see adult gotenks so badly for a serious battle
Same!
What weird is why goten or trunks never turn ssj 3
@@ismisyafiq9523 It's obvious right. They can't. They can only do it in fusion. But SSJ2 should have been possible, like in GT. But they didn't train as much and it was peaceful. It's weird that they never used Gotenks in GT either.... could've made quite a difference.
@@Firemarioflower That doesn't make sense - fusions are simply the warriors abilities combined. Fusions don't have "new forms," so Goten and Trunks should definitely be able to pull off Super Saiyan 2 and 3.
@@starslight-x3o WRONG. In this case, it's clear that they can't. The story decided so. So deal with it.
Buhan is the strongest Majin. Gohan is the strongest unfused character. Gohan is stronger than ssj3 Gotenks, ssj3 Gotenks is stronger than super buu. Goku and Vegeta literally played rock, paper and scissors to fight kid buu. Goku didn't want to fight super buu when he had ssj3 under his sleeve. The only reason he accepted to go to earth and face buutenks is because he was given the potara earings. It's actually not confusing at all. The problem is because kid buu is the final fight, people think that means he has to be the strongest, when in reality if you use your brain and just read what the characters say, both the manga and the anime make it very clear which majin buu is the strongest and who between Goku, Gohan, Gotenks and kid buu is the strongest. The order would be Gohan, Gotenks and ssj3 Goku and kid buu. The reason Goku didn't win against kid buu is because it was easier to maintain ssj3 with his dead body, he didn't know how taxing ssj3 would be in his alive body and this is very clearly stated later on when he tries to gather energy for a spirit bomb but runs out of energy completely. Come on guys, just read what is being said on screen, a monkey would be able to understand it so I don't see why humans wouldn't.
The thumbnail art for this vid is so dope
I agree bro.
If Gotenks and Gohan would have been there for Kid Buu, there would have been no issue beating him. There's a reason why Toriyama wrote them out of the final battle. It would have been too easy 🤷🏾♂️
The reason why Vegeta refused to bring Gotenks & Gohan is bcuz Goku was the strongest of the 3. And he was failing against Kid Buu. Not only that but Kid Buu like all other margin boo have an infinity sign on the power level. Meaning that power/strength, speed, stamina, endurance, durability & “ki” energy never goes down when fighting other opponents. This ability hack is greater than the androids infinite power core.
Vegeta learned it doesn’t matter how many fighters you bring to fight a margin boo. If the fighter or even one fighter in particular is not overwhelmingly stronger than Majin Buu it’s useless. Vegeta knows this more than anybody else. He was simply stronger than Fat Buu. SSJ3 Gotenks was equal to Super Buu. But one thing must be accounted for that goes unnoticed. Super Buu was never afraid of SS3 Gotenks. They have equal power levels. So what does that mean? Even if the fusion never ran out, go tanks did not have the power required to completely obliterate and destroy Super Buu. What makes this far more evident is knowing this, during their fight Super Buu could sense Base Form Gohan from a great distance Earth to The Kaioshin Realm. But remember this, Goku is the first who’s highly suppressed power level was felt from the distance of earth to the Kaioshin realm. SSJ3 Goku could contend with Kid Buu. But he neva stood a chance at actually beating him. Kid Buu proved too strong. Goku fought Kid Buu twice and failed. He collapsed from exhaustion the first fight. And ran out of energy his second fight. Now many people think this is due to the weakness of SSJ3. But that’s not in fact true. It is because Goku was severely beaten by Kid Buu. But because SSJ3 is so powerful he barely felt the effects of being severely beaten. But it had an effect on his body which is why he could no longer recover energy he was far too much in a week in the state. This just goes to show the tank of a Beast SSJ3 is in the form of an adult body.
@@jordanglasper1064 I get what you saying bro, but I go by statements in the manga. Goku clearly stated that he AND Vegeta stood no chance against Super Boo. Gotenks was above Goku, and Gohan was above them both. It's just facts. And remember Vegeta wanted Gotenks and Gohan to be there, not hercule and dende
@@jordanglasper1064not only was goku the weakest as he HIMSELF stated that base super buu is stronger than him (the same superbuu that got clowned by both gotenks and gohan), but also that vegeta was mad that goku saved hercule and dende instead of gohan, goten, trunks and the others. Vegeta never refused to bring them, he WANTED them there to fight kid buu. Lastly, vegeta chose SPIRIT BOMB over ssj3 goku, gotenks and gohan and NOT SSJ3 goku over gotenks and gohan because spirit bomb is the strongest attack they know of that could kill buu in an instant + less chance of anyone getting absorbed with less people around (keep in mind that ssj3 goku was only relevant to kid buu and not even stronger hence why kid buu didn't even try to absorb him like he did the south kai, if gohan and gotenks were there and pushed him to the limit, he might absorb either vegeta, goku, gotenks or gohan) and finally, did you really think the fight would be interesting at all if gotenks and gohan were to just roflstomp kid buu? Where's the excitement of the final battle in that?
@@OmoJusu22 Select statements alone are negated by select feats. Feats and actions complement certain statements. Such as Super Buu + Piccolo was genuinely afraid of SSJ3 Goku. Whereas Super Buu + SSJ3 Gotenks was about to attack SSJ3 Goku. Once Super Buu reverted he instantly stopped his attack on Goku bcuz Goku held the overwhelming power level advantage.
The major constant in the Buu arc is this, many different characters underestimate Goku’s power level because Goku is constantly suppressing his power level, until he fights Kid Buu. Goku is the only Z fighter whom is highly suppressed all throughout this arc. Kid Buu is the only Majin Buu who consistently was highly suppressed too. Until he fought Goku and Vegeta. For anybody who still wish to vacate the truth and what I’m saying. Kid Buu fought Mr. Satan, Fat Buu, Vegeta & Goku. All of whom are on a great difference in power level. Mr. Satan - 185 DB Kid Goku Level. Fat Buu is equal to Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan. SSJ2 Vegeta is Stronger than Fat Buu, but not enough to make a difference due to Fat Buu’s Magic & Healing. All of them are ants compared to SSJ3 Goku.
Super Saiyan Gotenks is weaker than SSJ2 Teen Gohan. It isn’t until SSJ3 Gotenks is Overwhelmingly Stronger than SSJ2 Teen Gohan. He is equal to Super Buu. SSJ3 Goku was highly suppressed when he fought Fat Buu. This highly suppressed power level of SSJ3 Goku is technically weaker than the Maximum Power Level of SSJ3 Gotenks. Yet this highly suppressed SSJ3 Goku’s power level was felt from the distance of Earth to The Kaioshin Realm. Power Level Suppression is a constant theme throughout DBZ. However, only in the z Buu Arc, Goku is the only one implementing this technique bcuz he is the most powerful. Kid Buu is Goku’s reflection of power level suppression and Mastery. Only on a much higher level.
@@OmoJusu22 You make a good point.. but at this point in time in the story, Vegeta was not seeking to save them for their power, more so because of their connection to himself and to Goku as they were family. It’s actually a good thing that Goku saved Mr. Satan and then they, because they were key characters essential to defeating Kid Buu. And you must remember this, once they were returned to life on the wish of the Dragon balls, Vegeta outright refused for them to fight kidding, it’s because Goku was the strongest of the three. Knowing that he knew if you talk to bring warriors who are weaker than Goku because Goku was only one who had the closest chance at beating Kid Buu. And after seeing his preposterous power first hand, Goku was simply outclassed. If Vegeta brought Gotenks & Gohan, they would simply run outta “ki” energy like Goku, and they’d all die. This doesn’t get talked about much, but Vegeta ran outta “ki” energy tryna buy time for Goku too build his “ki” energy up. Doing so would be like a hamster and a treadmill getting nowhere fast. So Vegeta came up with a fool proof plan. The Spirit Bomb. Goku & Vegeta underestimated Kid Buu, and ended up paying for it, later on. Think about it. Super Buu had to become a fusion level fighter Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks Absorbed) just to surpass Kid Buu’s Power Level. This heavily implies that Kid Buu is around fusion power level at his Maximum Power Level. Make no mistake he would still lose, but the fact that Super Buu attained fusion power level just to surpass The Original Majin Buu, shows Kid Buu’s power level is Monsterous.
I am not sure about Gotenks ssj3 vs Super Buu. It could be that they both are equal. As we know that Buu did sense the enormous power of Ultimate Gohan from other planet, maybe this is part of his plan to let Gotenks win against him first.
Super Vegito > Super Buuhan > Super Buutenks > Mystic Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks > Super Buu > Ssj3 Goku > Kid Buu > Fat Majin Buu (might actually be on par with Kid Buu if he is super angry; lots of his power is suppressed due to the whimsical personality he gained from absorbing Grand Supreme Kai)
Ssj3 Goku was stronger than Kid Buu in terms of power level. But two other factors made the fight much more competitive: Ssj3's effect on the living body, combined with Buu's regenerative powers
Edit: And for the guy that thinks Gotenks is not stronger than Super Buu, just go read chapter 496 and 497.
Maybe it's just me not having seen the fight in decades, but wasn't Mystic Gohan absolutely fucking up Buutenks right up until he got absorbed?
@@taa347 No, Buutenks was beating him and holding back at the same time.
Gohan was only beating Super Buu (no absorption involved).
Disagree with the Majins. Agree with everything else.
Nowhere is it stated that the Fat Kai and the Buff Kai are one being inside of Kid Buu. It’s implied that Kid Buu was still evil after eating the Buff Kai by extension implying it was only the Fat Kai influencing him. He literally goes from soulless to having a soul, effectively creating a new being. Fat Buu.
The Fat Kai is stated to be weaker than the Buff Kai but before he absorbs Fat Kai, Buu is stated to be too strong and uncontrollable to be sealed. This implies that Buu was indeed weakened before he was sealed. Him having a soul just don’t cut it lol the fact that Fat Kai’s personality is dominate over Buff Kai’s personality is further proof of a net negative.
Super Buu is the bad side of the Fat Buu. They’re both influenced by Kid Buu, they still kill, but THEY don’t influence Kid Buu. He’s pure evil. The story says evil prevails.
So Super Buu and Fat Buu technically should be equal. Super Buu just shows us more power because he WANTS to be the strongest. As stated in manga. Fat Buu fights for enjoyment. The only person I recall him actually killing is Babadi. He literally ate everything else and I’m not counting the human house lol
Once Vegeta removes Fat Buu, no more Fat Kai which means no more Super Buu. The good and bad side of Fat Kai being gone, should mean Kid Buu either: gets more powerful due to the soul now being completely gone OR he just accesses more of his own power like Super Buu due to being a more loose cannon.
Right after they make a statement regarding his power, he shows he can put out more than they could hope to stop meaning those statements should be invalid lol
And Goku being only SLIGHLY weaker than Gotenks should still be able to win with the Spirit Bomb.
Goku been training 7 years. Even being a fusion, Gotenks should only scale slightly above him anyways lol
My two cents lol
@@maniacslap1623 That's a lot of copium to say Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu.
I 100% agree with this list but I always am most curious about the theoretical Buuiccolo vs SSJ3 Gotenks. Based on Goku's comments we can assume Mystic Gohan is still ahead of BuuPiccolo and it is pretty obvious from the fights that Mystic Gohan>SSJ3 Gotenks. However the question would be is if the drop in power from losing the fusion would have brought him below just Gohan or also below SSJ3 Gotenks. My own theory is that BuuPiccolo would still have had the edge on SSJ3 Gotenks just not over Mystic Gohan.
I think buu was stalling he knew he couldn’t beat gohan so he was going to absorb them the worst thing they ever did was tell him about the time limit
Super Buu was pulling his most deadly attacks from Gotenks. It's akin to Hit fighting Goku, but pulling his lethal attacks.
Does this mean Super Buu had full control of the fight? No.
If anything, Super Buu almost died in holding back, not even once he tried to turn Gotenks into candy.
Super bu stated later on that he was just toying arround with gotenks because he was actually waiting for gohan to appear...
No he obviously was saying this because he could have killed them when they were infused, fused they were on his level
Yeah Gotenks or Mystic would have mopped Kid Buu. People forget Goku stated Gotenks could beat Fat Majin Buu when Goku only saw them as super saiyans. So he’s banking on a ssj Gotenks to wipe floor with fat Buu. This alone already puts ssj1 Gotenks far higher than ssj1 Goku or ssj2 Goku since ssj2 Goku is equal to Majin Vegeta who was weaker than Fat Buu. So if Gotenks ssj1 higher than Goku ssj2 it makes no sense for Goku ssj3 to be higher than Gotenks ssj3.
Well put together video. I agree.
Thanks!
the fusion that never gets any W's
Every fusion just bs’s too much to get shit done
They 86’d hitler in that one movie
I think it’s the ugliest design too.
@@enriquestewart5762yeah they're too short to look cool for the hair which somehow is longer than goku's which is weird coz he's a grown ass man lol
@@ssk58607Goku's hair is longer than Gotenks. So, how can Gotenks' hair be longer than Goku's?😂
Wow well said. I enjoyed that
Thank you I’m glad to hear!
_I want that link for that art in the thumbnail_
Imagine how powerful Gotenks would be if Goten and Trunks individually transformed while both were already in SSJ3
Please do a SS3 Gotenks vs. SS3 GT Goku video! Nice job!
Oooo I’ll note that down. Could be interesting 🤔 thank you btw
Annihilation in favor of goku, blud forgot even before gt he was strong as kid buu in base form
This is all very sound logic. Every facet. And even the head canons you posed made sense as well.
Thank you!
I agree with most of these statements. Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs super Buu tanks was just to show us how our class Goku was when it came to speed and ferocity even with his ss3. It was a fun little skirmish to watch. What will be more interesting is kaioken x4 used in a short burst with ss3 goku at least to defend himself better.
I don’t think SSJ3 Goku actually could have taken innocent Buu. That version of Buu doesn’t really use his full power in the fight and Goku had no idea how powerful his regeneration truly was.
I say 50/50. If it was run in a simulation, fat buu wins half the time and SSJ3 Goku wins half the time
@@SirAuron777 nah ss3 Goku wins.
Nah ss3 Goku was far superior, he was playing around as well and annihilating that version of Buu. Even if that version of Buu got serious like he did with Majin Vegeta, a Goku could handle it. Majin Vegeta was able to tank and enraged Buu so I think ss3 Goku would be a safe bet to take that fight more often than not
@@sky-oq5mr He was "playing around with that version of Buu" even though he fired a kamehameha at him? Lol, Buus powerlevel was growing, so the Vegeta fat buu was alot weaker than the one Goku fought, and the one Gotenks was stronger than that, Fat Buu was literally having fun with Goku, Goku wasnt "toying with fat buu" sure he might have been able to summon up some super attack that could have cought Buu offguard, but that doesnt mean he was stronger than Buu, I can dive into multiple instances of weaker people beating stronger people, or in a situation they could have beaten a stronger character; has nothing to do with being "stronger" lol.
@@sky-oq5mr you have to remember that Buu’s regeneration is insane and Goku can’t maintain SSJ3 for long. Fat Buu wins more times than not, or about 50/50 depending on how fast Goku wants to destroy buu, it’s also gonna have to be one hell of a blast to destroy him
Where can I find the full size photo to that cover photo for this video?? That’s fireee
What is the multiplier for fusion? Has that been figured out?
well we have the 2 points of comparison but they don't really compare well since its directly stated the potara gives a bigger power boost than the dance and vegeto never even goes full power (spoilers vegeto's multiplier is way higher than gotenks), what we know is goten and trunks were strong enough to impress piccolo but not goku pre training, they then fused and got beaten by fat buu off screen while in base form, we then only see them fight again after their training and piccolo says they were much stronger, but we also know that goten and trunks individually were weaker than piccolo since when gotenks defuses in buu he starts to look like piccolo ( since hes the strongest current absorbed being) we know piccolo is still weaker than cell was since he thought he would lose to supreme kai who is weaker than dabora who is equal to cell, and we know fat buu is likely around 8x stronger than cell when comparing him to ssj3 goku. all this is to say if we say that goten and trunks post training are like half as strong as cell then gotenks with the extra 8x over super sayian ssj3 provides, gotenks needs to be goten+trunks to match fat buu and super buu is stronger than fat buu, if we be generous and say super buu is twice as strong as fat buu then fusion is only a+bx2 or a little bit more if you think gotenks was slightly stronger than super buu, alternatively depending how much weaker you think goten and trunks were determines how much higher the fusion multiplier was
It's tough, but for Gotenks somewhere around a 100x boost is probably right.
Power multipliers aren't canon and doesn't make sense past namek saga
@@ericborder5272 Fusion is exponential
Honestly the difference between Gotenks and Goku would be a lot bigger when seeing a certain dialogue in the manga. After Goten and Trunks do the fusion in the time chamber, Piccolo states that they could have a shot at defeating Super Buu who he knows is significantly stronger than Fat Buu (still unaware of his true power). He states this when Gotenks is at base and up to that point he still believes that Gotenks can only transform into SSJ if both Goten and Trunks fused while in SSJ which showed that he was confident that a base Gotenks could rival the power he believed Super Buu had. Since Goku wasn’t immensely more powerful than Fat Buu than I would put base Gotenks around SSJ3 Goku. This means that SSJ3 Gotenks would be at least 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
Most of us think that the Base Gotenks strength suggestions are always gags not meant to be taken seriously.
1:52 "This is Goku's opinion […]." Afaik, adult Goku has never had a wrong "opinion" when it comes to fighting. When he's not sure, he says it. Even if he was basing his guess strictly on his fighting experience, he still would have a few decades of experience under his belt. However, he's also a fighting genius, making his guesses even more accurate.
N.B.: I'm only watching the animes. I'm watching them all from DB to the most recent one, currently on GT i.e. I finished DB and DBZ.
Let’s honestly think about this for a second. Gotenks held back the fact that he could become super saiyan 3 until they got trapped in the hyperbolic time chamber. At the time he had the power to finish buu if he did that from the beginning.
Gohan had the power to finish buu with his elder Kai unlock, he got vindictive and sadistic because he wanted buu to suffer, he still had the power to finish buu if he did it immediately.
What do these two situations have in common? Children playing hero. And now we’re going to talk about how they could defeat the literal incarnation of evil after failing against a stronger incarnation albeit weakened by an ego? Nah, I ain’t buying it.
Goku fought fat buu and kid buu as a super saiyan 3 and both times said he could “probably” have beaten them. Let’s think about both instances, everyone thought buu had killed gohan and vegeta the first time and the second time buu had destroyed the earth and was wreaking havoc on the rest of the galaxy. Despite what was said do we think at both those junctures it wouldn’t just behoove goku to go super saiyan 3 and use a super kamehameha to finish the job? That’s why it didn’t happen because goku only probably thought it would work. He thought if vegeta bought him 3 minutes to recharge his power he could’ve beat kid buy but he was wrong because he didn’t account for having a living body all of a sudden.
The spirit bomb destroying buu was genius because it was suggested by vegeta, a person whom had felt it’s ferocity when he was evil, and it was made up of all the energy of individuals buu had destroyed. No one person could straight up defeat buu and vegeta, and to a lesser degree goku, recognized that.
In conclusion power scaling only gets you so far because if that’s all that mattered we never would’ve met gotenks because super saiyan 3 goku would’ve killed fat buu
Who made the art in the thumbnail
I dont know man a 400x power boost is crazy dawg I think gotenks is up there
Something I see everyone overlook when comparing the power of Gotenks and Super Buu: Gotenks clearly creates a bigger hole than Super Buu when shouting to escape the Room of Spirit and Time, which clearly indicates that he is stronger. Of course, that doesn't mean he's all around superior to Super Buu, as Super Buu has no time limit and has broken regeneration, but overall, I'd say Gotenks' odds looked > 50% on paper.
Goku said that he and vegeta had to fuse to beat super buu is because Goku had no way of knowing that after they leave he will go back to normal size, you can even see on his expression after leaving that he had no idea.
I do agree that ssj3 Gotenks was stronger than ssj3 goku from the start of the saga but Goku got stronger when he was fighting kid Buu.
Akira Toriyama pretty much confirmed that Goku was the strongest in the universe and the Daizenshuu 4 straight up said that Goku and kid buu were the strongest..so ssj3 Gotenks can't hold a candle to that
Strongest in universe just as bold as factoring beerus so don't take it seriously, gotenks is entity only born during fusion obviously they wouldn't factor that
And so gohan ultimate as gohan might not known how to reunlock the form
clown
Also remember that Gotenks can create physically sentient constructs from his energy, and break through dimensions. I dont see Goku doing anything like that while at SSJ3
10:27 I don't see the head-canon… It's literally what's being said and shown 🧐. He healed the damage he took from SS3 Gotenks's attacks in an instant and he mentioned he had a plan of absorbing Gotenks at full power and full timer. What more do you want? For them to explicitely mention it? There's a golden rule in movies and anime: "Show, don't tell". That's exactly what's being done here. The only way to connect the dots is clearly being shown to us. If it's not enough for you, then fine. You can choose to ignore it, just don't complain to the people that don't that they're makng stuff up 😑.
Funnest character to play with in Budakai
can you explain ssj3 gotenks widows peak?!
VEGETA
We were robbed of gotten in the super hero movie.
People forget fusion is more than a simple addition of powers, they become many times more stronger more than the sum of their parts
I hear it be described as not Goten+trunks power but Goten x Trunks power
Most reliable multiplier is (strongest form of A + strongest form of B) x 100
A+b x 100 = the base
(A+B)4 makes the most sense lol
They both around 5M so Gotenks would be around 40M in base. Slightly stronger than Goku at 35M. He doesn’t have to be hundreds of times stronger than Goku lol
Goku doesn’t ever state the exact multiplier and it’s highly doubtful that Trunks and Goten are vastly more powerful than Goku post Yardrat.
It just makes the most sense lol
@@maniacslap1623 yeah the guess work seems a bit much.
I don’t think the base sayians are frieza level either so it makes sense.
It wouldn’t be too out there to suggest A+B x 2 or 3 or 4 even if we use Sayian level goku ssj @ 150m for Gotenks and trunks (for example) 150m x 150m is insane.
Going from a ssj transformation which is x50 to x150,000,000 is so insane lol
6:30 Goku literally doesnt bother to go ssj3 and initially runs from Kid Buu loo
To me it seems like goku was just worried about vegeta, and if vegeta got absorbed by super Buu or if anyone else did, after they got out of super buu’s head. Goku alone would not have been able to match Buu. At least that’s what I think
Adding vegeta is equal to nothing
SS3 Gotenks was in no way stronger than Super Buu. Super Buu was toying with Gotenks. He was sensing Gohan’s Ki growing the entire time and needed to plan to power up to eventually take him on. He knew of his absorption powers so he needed Gotenks’ power to fight Gohan that’s why he didn’t kill him.
But for him to want to take gotenks power he had to have been as strong or stronger than him
@@JJJJ-he8bz Gotenks was strong but he was no match for Super Buu. Super Buu needed Gotenks power to overwhelm Gohan who was stronger than him. The fact that even absorbed Gotenks proved he was stronger than him. Super Buu couldn’t absorb a fighter that was stronger than him. He couldn’t absorb Gohan in his base form that’s why he needed Gotenks and Piccolo’s power and he couldn’t absorb Vegito either.
I doubt Super Buu would want to toy with someone to the extent that they beat the everloving crap out of him to the point where he is visibly shaken. Gotenks just before he depowered was destroying Buu.
@@InfernoCleric384 he wasn’t shaken 😂 he could’ve healed and regenerated or absorbed him at any time: 😂
@@SRT_DRE Again, Buu was a little terrified of Gotenks. That's why he was willing to absorb Gotenks; he knew Gotenks was strong enough compared to him that he would make for a viable power source.
"he could’ve healed and regenerated" Gotenks just before he defused was talking trash to Buu about how he'd completely eviscerate him and Buu can't regenerate then?
Two beings that were far weaker than Gohan individually somehow overpower him together. (No, we are not counting anime filler)
If he could have absorbed Gotenks at any time, why not before Gohan arrived? Buu hates losing and would probably not want to be seriously injured. But no, he had to fight and get beat up by Gotenks when he had multiple opportunities to take Gotenks.
Not to mention, Gohan is stronger than Gotenks so it's redundant to worry about him when Gohan far eclipses both Buu and Gotenks.
gotenks can also warp reality
Congratulations
Thank you!
I found a SLIGHT plot hole.
Gotenks may have defused from somthing other than ssj3. Gotenks was made in the time chamber where time moves faster. He also lasted a bit but defused before he could finish him off. There reasoning the time limit was shortened from SSJ3. witch is wrong from what we see with blue gogeta not being effected by such restrictions seemingly.
SSJ3 had nothing to do with it they had less time from being born in the time chamber and lessened there time. in theroy we could have had gotenks for longer. BUT I could be overthinking it too much.
05:40 "and with knowing this knowledge"
Wtf
Everyone trying to debate dbz power levels, especially in the Buu saga, are insane lol their power is literally plot convenience at that point
What about SSJ3 Gotenks vs BuuPiccolo?
Umm piccolo special beam canon might snipe gotenks
SuperBoo litteraly says he did't like Gohan being stronger than him bcs he would loses hes title as the Strongest it more like Super Boo>Gotenks>Goku
exactly
Also, Goku proves the extent of Buu level that he was able to beat was fat buu, which I dont truly think he could have beating as fat buu was never serious, having fun the entire fight, literally wanted to fight someone stronger than Goku lol
After getting beaten up by Fat Boo as Base Gotenks and then training in the ROSAT, Kid Trunks says Gotenks in Base Form is now equal to Fat Boo.
SSj3 is 400x multiplier from base.
Piccolo establishes Gotenks SSJ3 is stronger or at least equal to Super Boo in raw power, and that it was messing with Super Boo mentally.
That means Super Boo is a little less stronger or exactly 400 times stronger than Fat Boo, who himself was roughly equal to or stronger than Goku SSj3.
Dbz Gotanks base is at least large star level plus..his ss1 is low multi solar system level, his ss3 is low multi galxcy level plus
Cell is solar system he isn't even Ssj 2 based gotenks scale higher than cell based gotenks around multi solar Ssj3 universal or multi universal kid boo is weaker than Super boo but he could destroy the Kaioshin realm in a *poof*(kaioshin realm is a univers size ) gotenks scale higher than kid boo
These power scaling terms are ridiculous. Yes planetoids have been destroyed since early Dragonball but that doesn't mean it makes for a good story. Toriyama is a gag manga artist making things up as he goes and he wrote himself into a corner by taking huge leaps in power, aka the emperor of all the known universe being weaker than two cyborg teenagers built by a former human. Don't take it so seriously, he doesn't.
@@VeylmanTheRock there feats backs up my comment doe 🤷🏾♂️
@@D4C_Requiem ss3 gotanks is definitely not universe level lol, he's at least multi galxcy level plus, kid buu is low multi galxcy level and yes super buu is stronger then kid buu but not by a lot..he's like low multi galxcy level but a lil bit more stronger
I'm saying shit dont matter cause Toriyama dont give a fuck @@overdrivety
Also I agree that goku in buu saga is not stronger than super buu but it is confirmed by Toriyama, Vegeta and the freaking narrator say that after the kid buu fight goku is the strongest in the universe until super when we find out about the other universes and gods of destruction.
Always go by the manga, never by the anime when it comes to DBZ, particularly when there are contradicting info. You default to the manga.
Only thing the anime might be nice for is explaining stuff that the manga hasn't explained.
I mean you have shit in the anime like Piccolo performing better than Vegeta and Trunks at fighting the Cell Jrs (which never happened in the manga).
And in the anime you have Goku saying "I can handle you now" when Buttenks expired vs the manga you have Goku saying "Gohan can handle you now."
The anime can change stuff that is not part of the author's intent.
@@GrubKiller436 yeah I agree but it was stated by toriyama in el manga legendario or daizennshu 7 if I remember correctly. But yeah the anime can be weird at times like when goku got that infinite speed feat in hell
@@crabraveclan4645Lol, "strongest in the universe" via a technique that isn't using his own power, and having his power restored mid power struggle? Nah, I'm not convinced.
@@gangstagummybear3432 not convinced by Toriyama? Did you even read the comment or did u read the first sentence and decide your favourite gohan’s power had been slandered so mercilessly?
Correct content
🔥💯
just like how kid buu was slightly weaker than goku, but goku couldnt close out the fight. gotenks probably wouldnt be able to finish off super buu in the like 5 minutes he would have before defusing if he tried to go all out from the jump. sure goku was holding back, but its still likely he wouldn't have been able to completely obliterate kid buu quickly. also people often say super buu is the strongest unfused buu, but people forget super buu isn't an unfused buu, every version of buu except kid and evil buu are fused with the grand supreme kai.
Gotenks is also technically half Sayian and thus has more latent power
He's full sayian and full human, he's half human human sayian sayian
@@mushroom11g55bro stop cocaine inhale
Ssj3 Gotenks > Kid Buu?
Yup
By a landslide. Ssj Gotenks > Kid Buu.
1) Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is equal to Super Buu. Not Stronger than. And the reason why we know this, is because anybody stronger than Super Buu, he feels inferior to and he’s angry about because they possess something superior than himself. Meaning they also have the ability to kill him.
2) Super Buu was never afraid of SSJ3 Gotenks. Super Buu is only afraid of Z fighters who are superior to him. Not equal to.
3) Super Buu is afraid of Base form Gohan.
4) Super Saiyan 3 Goku & Gohan are Overwhelmingly Stronger than Super Buu (Piccolo Absorbed).
5) All filler in Kai is canon. I really so like I need to make an actual UA-cam video explaining is, because you guys want to use certain filler for your evidence, and then go against certain filler to delegitimize evidence. All filler in Kai is canon. This was stated by Akira Toriyama. That’s why the old school DBZ anime is not canon.
6) and yes when they were inside of Super Buu’s innards, weird to say.. Goku’s had no idea they would ever turn back to normal. That’s why the implied emphasis on we can’t go outside of Super Buu “like this” is on their microscopic size. Goku’s had no idea if they would return to normal size. But because super boo was dying and his insides was destroying themselves he and Vegeta had no choice but to grab their friends and leave not knowing if they will return to normal size or not.
Anybody, and I mean anybody who keeps on trying to legitimize Goku as the weakest out of the three, do not know proper power scaling and are being very disingenuous to the story in both the anime and manga because there’s certain things that happen in one and things that don’t happen in the other, but they complement each other because they are two rivers that go apart and come back together as one in unison. You and many other cotton creators keep on trying to paint a narrative that is not true. Any time is something that’s not true you had to put headcounting in it. That’s funny.
Something that does not require a head cannon is this, SSJ3 Goku versus Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks Absorbed) showed Goku perform much better versus this version of Super Buu, than Gohan. If this same filler showed Gohan performing better than Goku you would use it obviously so, but it makes no sense to except one filler scene and deny another, because as I stated let me allow me to reiterate all filler scenes in Kai are canon.
Not only are you adding insult to injury you’re saying that go tanks somebody who is much weaker than Super boo plus piccolo is stronger than Super Bowl. That’s head cannon right there because there is nothing in the manga nor the anime that suggest what you’re saying. There’s a lot of head cannon in here but little to no evidence pointing toward what is actually true which is this. Goku is not only stronger than Gotenks, he’s Stronger than Gohan.
The final nail in the coffin at least to delegitimize and expose your argument is this. Super Buu + Piccolo is Stronger than just Super Buu alone. Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks Absorbed) is about to attack Goku. Goku is rightfully scared, both he and Gohan are no match for this current version of Super Buu. Unexpectedly, Super Buu reverts into Super Buu + Piccolo. This is when Goku is no longer scared but is extremely confident.
I’m the Manga Goku says “Kinda disappointing”. This heavily implies that Goku is superior to Super Buu + Piccolo.
In the anime Goku is far more direct. He tells Super Buu (Piccolo Absorbed) “You don’t plsn on beating me like that do you?” Mind you, this is Super Buu with the stolen power level of Piccolo. No matter what anybody says, they cannot explain away this power scale feat by Goku vs Super Buu + Piccolo.
This is poses any power scala who tries to put Goku is the weakest. Not only that but the DBZ movie 13 wrath of the dragon follows the power scale of the Buu arc perfectly. This movie before any other is actually Canon, because it takes place over one month in the 10 year timeline after the defeat of Kid Buu. Kid Buu specifically is the reference point of power level, specifically moving forward in Dragon Ball super. Anybody who wishes to negate or overlook a reference point is being very disingenuous to the hierarchy of power that was established inside this arc.
SSJ3 Goku overwhelmingly stronger than super buu with piccolo absorbed? Lol cope, just because Goku was confident and was disappointed in buu doesn’t mean he can beat him. He was confident because gohan was there and gohan could beat super buu with piccolo absorbed. If you’re referring to the dub, that was an error, he never says he can take on super buu piccolo absorbed. And Goku stronger than gohan? How does this even make sense? Why would elder Kai and supreme Kai bother training gohan then if Goku could just go and beat super buu by himself? Elder Kai could have given Goku his life at any moment, and even Goku was surprised at gohan’s strength when he powered up. And to end it, in the manga, Goku even says to super buu piccolo absorbed “gohan can handle you now” why wouldn’t Goku just say that he can handle him? Why say gohan’s name at all? Why not just take on super buu if he’s stronger? Keep coping
I always laugh at Goku stans that claim, "Goku did better against buu with gotenks and picollo absorbed than Gohan" let me burst your bubble fanboy, the anime is significant and of all of the anime only additions, the first part of the gohan vs buu fight and the goku vs buu fight were needed. If we compare the 2 fights, Gohan's fight vs buu was separated into 2 parts, the first part was him not using picollo's mind, the second was using picollo's mind and all of the borrowed attacks from gotenks and picollo. There are elements I will be glad to dive into of why Buu with gotenks and picollo absorbed seemed alot stronger compared to Gohan than he actually was, the first part of Gohan and buu's fight would have been that the whole time without picollo's mind, Gohan was able to go tit for that with Buu power vs power, that is what the first part of the fight showed, gohan's attacks were still very much able to hurt Buu, that is why he opted for dodging attacks than blocking and if not, even a one handed ki blast he needed to defend against at the very least to deflect it, for gohan to go pretty much the entirety of the 30 minutes with buu, on the losing end and have less battle damage than goku had vs an equally powered vegeta, despite buu hitting him onscreen with atleast 4 energy based attack including big ones like a special beam canons and super ghost kamikaze attack which gotenks said when he turned ssj3 that super ghosts power has increased just as much as his had, and it still didnt take gohan out or atleast blow his gi off which he had all of other than some slightly torn parts, everytime goku wore that gi, it looked worse than gohan's did at the end of their fight. Their is one big detail of you people that claim, "Goku did better against buu than Gohan did" lol, that is a funny one a key detail left out is, Buu didn't want direct smoke with Gohan, after the second part of the fight when he began using picollo's mind, his fighting style was either luring Gohan into attacking them counter attacking, or ranged energy-based attacks, or attacking once Gohan was already off balance from some missed attack after being counterattacked, from how i looked at the fight, Buu would have never engaged Gohan initially, not hand to hand, go watch the fight for yourself, it was a bunch of counterattacks and ranged energy-based attacks, whereas with Goku, he was fully willing to not only engage Goku directly, but he was willing to take his energy-based attacks no problem. Your boy Goku gave him a powered up energy blast, you know blasts are using alot more of someone's strength if they are firing the blast with their energy aura up, which goku did have his energy aura up when he shot a distracted Buu, it didnt do anything lol. So Buu fought like a biatch vs Gohan and like a g vs Goku who he never needed to absorb anyone to beat.
Toriyama said that the DBZ in both manga and anime not that filler is canon..misused
Wish Gotenks actually got a W anytime.
I cant believe people actually think SSJ3 Goku was stronger than Ultimate/Mystic Gohan or SSJ3 Gotenks
SSJ transformations are a mutiplier. IF your base is stronger the SSJ transformation is stronger. Eg. Vegito's SSJ 1 transformation is much stronger than any version of SSJ 3 because his base is so strong.
Gotenks in base fought fat buu about as well as SSJ2 Gohan. That is how strong Base Gotenks was.
Kid Buu is also clearly much weak than even base super buu. Goku explicitly says, when Super Buu's gotenks powerup disappeared due to them defusing and Piccolo was the main power source, that "now gohan can beat you"
He doesnt say either of them could, he says Ultimate Gohan could
If you take away Buu's healing factor and if Gotenks took the fight seriously then yeah Gotenks wins
I don’t understand why Gotenks wasn’t used more he surpassed Vegeta when they were young going super sayin 3. You’d think as they got older their power would increase as well and pose a serious threat. Wasted if you ask me lol I just thought is my was awesome.
Ssj3 gotenks in the super hero movie from my perspective could've almost soloed cell max to destruction
Since fat gotenks left a big crack on cell max head. Plus normal base gotenks would've been way more powerful than than on top with ssj3
The time limit.
Is this Geekdom101?
Lol nah
bro you sound just like him@@Whorelord
@@sirlottawin damn fr lol. That’s wild to me
Chill bro u don't have to yell, R.I.P. headphone users
Just compare base Gotenks to base Goku. Their SSJ3 form would be 16x more powered up than their base form.
Goku never fought against Super buu properly, but Gotenks sure did and it just looked like Gotenks had the upper hand. But buu wasn't even scratched nor did he fear Gotenks. Super buu was just toying with Gotenks as we can clearly see he never got tired or received any damage after the battle. Gotenks used all of his best moves, yet buu didn't have to use any of his best move against Gotenks.
Now looking at Goku, he did say that he and Vegeta didn't stand a chance against Super buu at all. But mind this that Gotenks was and will always be overconfiden, unlike Goku and Vegeta. There isn't a fight that Gotenks hasn't been scared or has said that his enemy has an upper hand.
As Goku SSJ3 fought Kid buu, who is far stronger than Super buu, Goku himself said it that his speed, strength, power, everything has almost doubled since his last fight with him, which clearly indicates Super buu, Butenks or Buuhan. Either way Kid buu is the strongest one he fought. He just underestimated Kid buu before they destroyed the potara and even states that they should've fused. If Kid buu was weaker than Super buu then they'd just bring in Gohan with the wish and end the fight. But Vegeta and Goku both knew that they'd just lose, even Goku, Vegeta, Gotenks and Gohan fought Kidd buu all at once. Either way, Goku did put some fight with Kid Buu, who is far more powerful than Super buu.
Also when Supreme kai and Goku sees Gotenks in their SSJ3 form for the first time, Supreme Kai asks goku about the looks and asks Goku if the boys looked like that due to fusion, where Goku explains SSj3 form to Kai. Kai then asks Goku if Gotenks is stronger than Goku where Goku clearly replies " Well I could do it too, but these boys, they've pushed themselves to a point where I couldn't even reach my entire life"
This clearly indicates that Goku doesn't wanna spill the truth and say that he's stronger than Gotenks. His words are true though. He never reached SSJ3 while he was still alive. That's the meaning of his phrase.
Everything clearly indicates Goku is stronger than Gotenks though.
Gotenks ssj 3 and Gohan was strongest at the end of Buu. That saying they would of still lost to kid Buu and Ssj 3 Goku because of lack of battle experience. Dragonball super proves this point already. Vegeta ssj 2 easily pass Ultimate Gohan the 2nd Beerus hit Bulma.
Sounds like geekdom101
Gotenks was the second strongest character out of z behind gohan. No stamina drain. Almost killed super buu
No, he never almost killed Super Buu. Super Buu was toying with him. He told Gohan he sensed his power growing and knew he would eventually have to fight him. He needed Gotenks so he could absorb him that’s why he didn’t kill him.
@@SRT_DRE he did almost kill him in the anime and he defused
@@tomcollierblognation136 no, he didn’t. Buu was toying with him. Go watch the episode again. He was no match for Super Buu. Super Buu was sparring with him.
@@SRT_DRE no u go watch the episode again buu was getting smacked up. But then again....u probably think ssj3 goku was stronger then ultimate gohan don't you? Or better yet u probably think kid buu was stronger then super buu,.. right?? Lmfao
@@tomcollierblognation136 I watched the entire saga last week. Buu was much stronger than Gotenks. He was more worried about Ultimate Gohan, fool. He used Gotenks so he could absorb him when Gohan showed up.
I think ssj3 Gotenks is 3 times stronger than Goku ssj3 If ssj3 Gotenks have the same fighting experience as Goku and doesn't play around with his techniques anymore.
Well, we know SS1 Gotenks is equal if not stronger than SS3 Goku. Goku says so.
Then they train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and say they got so strong they won't need SS1. Piccolo believes them btw.
If this is true, Base-Gotenks(post training) is relative to SS1 Gotenks(before training). Meaning Base Gotenks is relative to SS3 Goku.
Since we factually know SS3 is 400x stronger than the base, SS3 Gotenks can actually be 400x stronger than SS3 Goku.
@@marinomele4575 Yes he is stronger than Ssj3 Goku, there's a lot of chances that he can destroy Super Buu but he didn't do it because the kid was cocky and wants to try his every tricks he learned, in DB battle experience is more important than power, that's why Goku didn't pick trunks and goten in Tournament of power.
Super Buu clearly says he was playing Gotenks they werent real competition.
But he did wanted to absorb him to defeat gohan implying he was lot useful variable in equation than just being" I was using 5% of my power until this point"
@ohhellwhereami2574 Gotenks is useful for sure his power level is high. Not even Goku or Vegeta were a Match for Super Buu. People try to make Super Buu seem weak so they can belittle Gohans power.
Man I love ur DBZ videos and I'm ur 1# fan but I have to disagree with you bro, Vegeta is not a ss2, he only obtained ss2 when he became Majin Vegeta, there are signs when Goku and Gohan are at ss2, constant blue electricty, thicker and longer hair, two or three banes compared to 4 or 5 banes wen at ss1. Vegeta has nun of the signs , now I understand it's hard to tell due to Vegetas type of hair style lol so thats what my research and studying is telling me , look at the evidence people ! Don't just say wat u think or wat u want lol
Gotenks was stronger than ss3 goku And kid buu but trunks and goten have little to no fighting experience so would probably lose to both but raw power he definitely got it
Vegito > Buuhan > Buutenks > Gohan > Goku > Gotenks > Kid Buu > Super Buu > Evil Buu > Fat Buu > Good Buu > Vegeta > Trunks > Goten.
No, Goku is not stronger than Gotenks. Ssj Gotenks > Ssj3 Goku.
To b realistic, the boys were wut 10 years old? End of debate
Nah sorry but you lost me at Super Buu versus super Saiyan three Goku. basically this power scaling hinges off of who is stronger super buu or kid buu. and kid buu is leagues and league and leagues above Super buu. Super Saiyan three Goku was swapping hands with kid boo, yes kid buu was gaining the upper hand, but he was still going toe to toe with him, so are you trying to say kid buu is weaker than super buu? Goku mentioning that they will be defeated when they leave Super Buu is either a plot hole or something else because there’s no possible way super Buu is stronger than kid buu. Yes BUUHAN is stronger then kid buu, but not super buu. I have to disagree with you there Goku super Saiyan three is way stronger then base super buu
SSJ3 Gotenks >>> Super Kamikaze Ghost (SSJ) >> SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks
Ss3 gotenks was definitely stronger than SS3 goku - he was just too young and inexperienced to finish buu off
this was a reply originally, but figured it was worth its own comment. question: what's the fusion multiplier?
Im only using in manga feets here, no data book statements as I still dont really think the data books are that reliable.
well we have the 2 points of comparison but they don't really compare well since its directly stated the potara gives a bigger power boost than the dance and vegeto never even goes full power (spoilers vegeto's multiplier is way higher than gotenks), what we know is goten and trunks were strong enough to impress piccolo but not goku pre training, they then fused and got beaten by fat buu off screen while in base form, we then only see them fight again after their training and piccolo says they were much stronger, but we also know that goten and trunks individually were weaker than piccolo since when gotenks defuses in buu he starts to look like piccolo ( since hes the strongest current absorbed being) we know piccolo is still weaker than cell was since he thought he would lose to supreme kai who is weaker than dabora who is equal to cell, and we know fat buu is likely around 8x stronger than cell when comparing him to ssj3 goku. all this is to say if we say that goten and trunks post training are like half as strong as cell then gotenks with the extra 8x over super sayian ssj3 provides, gotenks needs to be goten+trunks to match fat buu and super buu is stronger than fat buu, if we be generous and say super buu is twice as strong as fat buu then fusion is only a+bx2 or a little bit more if you think gotenks was slightly stronger than super buu, alternatively depending how much weaker you think goten and trunks were determines how much higher the fusion multiplier was.
now vegeto's turn
lets say ssj vegeto was going all out (even though he definitely wasn't) goku here is half of super buu in ssj3 meaning goku is 8x weaker than half of super buu in ssj1, lets say vegeta is around the same. as you know vegeto only uses ssj1 against super buu, meaning goku+vegeta brings them to 4x weaker so they need atleast an 4x to match super buu, oh right buu also had gohan piccolo and goten and trunks absorbed, goten trunks and piccolo probably dont matter much, but gohan is likely around double base super buu's power so super buu would need to be 12x stronger than ssj goku
so vegeto at minimum needs to be goku + vegeta x 12 and cmon, thats only to even out the fight, lets double that since vegeto dominated, to a a+bx24 and thats probably still too low.
in summary: its not close
dance: A+Bx2
Potara: A+BX24
In the manga Gotenks is stronger. In the anime Goku is stronger.
Wasnt Kid Buu strongest? Besides maybe Gohan-Absorbed-Buu?
The 5 strongest in order are
Gohan, Gotenks, SuperBuu, Goku, Vegeta
Over 400 times stronger than Ssj 3 Goku.
At least 8x stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
Definitely stronger, idk about 8x, but possibly
@@Whorelord Simple math dictates at least 8x.
All these Saiyans got nothing on Ben 10
Lol
This is just simply not the case. We never see goku vs super buu so we cant base it on that. The fact of the matter is, we do see and hear from goku that all along he could have wiped the floor with fat buu in super saiyan 3, and his only limiting factor is that he struggles to maintain the form cause of its wicked energy drain, which gotenks also had seeing as it only lasted 5 minutes. Goku has not only had more experience with the form, and while i wouldnt put him leagues above gotenks, that and his decades of fighting experience simply put him just above gotenks. Goku even mentions while in the world of the kais, that the boys have reached a point he didnt until his life was over, and doesnt mention that they are stronger so at most they are as strong.
You're forgetting the reason why we never see that fight is because Goku runs from it. There's no grey area.
Gotenks proves to be superior to an enemy Goku is scared to fight... Even when teaming-up with Vegeta.
Gotenks is not only stronger than Goku, but stronger than Goku teaming-up with Vegeta.
@@marinomele4575 goku doesnt run from the fight. He runs from buuhan but thats an entirely different case. Super buu and buutenks and buuhan are on entirely different scaling...
@@TC70 Quite the opposite. Just before exiting Buu's body, him and Vegeta are talking about Super Buu. At that point Buuhan doesn't exist anymore .
Goku says in the earlier part of the arc that "maybe he could have beaten him" then later as Toriyama was trying to do some last minute changes to try to redeem Goku and Vegeta, and NOT make them look like the fodders they were, he added in alot of bogus wording, and terrible power scaling to make them look stronger than they should have possibly been; I have no time to even dive into how bogus the powerscaling in the last like 16 episodes was, so later on as part of this, as Akira created his new Buu that shouldnt have existed, Goku claims, "i could have beaten the fat buu" lol, that was so weird and such a weird excuse for a loser in my opinion, being able to beat someone doesnt truly mean stronger than someone alot of times, heck in the beginning of the arc, Goku and Vegeta were making it seem as if the power difference there may have been wasnt the true factor that made Gohan unable to beat Dabura, but his fighting skills not being fresh and polished current, he had lost his fighting sense. The fact that the most Goku was able to do, was pretty much the most Vegeta was able to do, though he never damaged Buu as bad as Vegeta, or had him out of commision as long as Vegeta did, yeah no, Goku was a product of sh1tty end of Z powerscaling is all.
Second
Third
Lol 🔥🔥🔥
asdf
Bruh listen, when u say Super Buu, we’re saying the one that fought Gotenks. He would win easily. Why?
Fusion isn’t as big of a bump as u think and Goku was a lot more powerful than u think. Because they never knew the depths of Buu’s power and Goku was strictly referring to his dead self and Fat Buu. He didn’t know he was coming back and didn’t know about Super Buu.
So, already Super Buu is leagues above of everyone lol
He was legit more concerned with getting out of the Time Chamber than fighting Gotenks. He was never serious.
Once he senses Gohan, he comes up with a plan for annoying ass Gotenks.
Next, it’s only two times we know Buu to absorb someone weaker: South Kai and Piccolo. It’s not until HE states Gohan is stronger that we KNOW someone is actually stronger. Him saying he needed Gotenks power isn’t saying he’s weaker, he’s just saying he needs that to surpass Gohan. Once he did this, only Vegito stood a chance.
Now on to Goku.
After training 7 years in the afterlife, at the beginning of the saga, Goku and Vegeta are undoubtedly the strongest. By a mile. How they suddenly 100s times weaker than fukkin Gohan and Gotenks lol
Once he gets his life back, he starts moving different. He HAS to fuse against Buutenks. No chance there. Then Gohan gets absorbed and he’s straight desperate. He’s facing down Buuhan with only Mr. Satan there.
Vegeta saves the day. The rest is history.
At no point in time before Buutenks did Goku ever have access to his full power.
Now we scale, excluding Buuhan, Buutenks and Vegito.
Wait for it…
Kid Buu=Gohan>Buucolo>Super Buu=Goku>Gotenks
With the equal signs being roughly. This fits the narrative because if the power gap isn’t that big between characters, Goku coulda knocked off any Buu had he used the Spirit Bomb. Gotenks showed us he is on that level RAW power wise but he never showed us that kinda technique, as far as gathering strictly Genki and using it as an attack. Remember, they’re all pretty relative in power and we see the whole team minus Piccolo blast Buu to shyt multiple times using regular Ki.
it makes a lot more sense WHY Vegeta and Goku, more seasoned fighters, chose to fight Kid Buu even though he was relatively more power than both of them. It also explains WHY they didn’t wish for Gohan or Gotenks. They’re only relatively stronger. Not enough to make a difference.
All that to say, without plot armor and strictly going off ability, Gotenks getting clapped.
And if u believe that Super Buu got stronger by absorbing his good side I HOPE u think Kid Buu would get even stronger after removing it altogether…just saying lol ss3 Gotenks could definitely beat Fat Buu. Super Buu was was too much for him to overcome.
Goku: If me and Vegeta fight Super Buu we'll be killed for sure.
DB Fans: No Goku, you can kill Super Buu alone. Because I say so.
The Buu saga was trash compared to other Z sagas
Stronger than ss2 slightly weaker than ss3 goku
Ssj Gotenks is well beyond Ssj3 Goku.
I know for a fact ssj3 gotenks is as stromg as super sayan 3 goku or a bit less. No discussion