omg going on your notes app in broad daylight to look at your grocery list and finding the most depressing note/poetry you wrote when you were down bad and cringing at yourself, is definitely a universal experience 😭
So truee🤣🤣 it gets even weirder if you don't remember writing it like this one thing I wrote She oils With what feels like love You lather Wash your hair Only for it to feel Like nothing (by the afternoon) Just so the strands To slip through My hands Like something I can never know But only remember The nights when you know your mother Will never love you Your secret waits safe in the closet watches the sporadic smiles Affectionate touches That remain And vouches(vouching) to snatch even those away A burning tear you didn't know was welling up in your eyes Tickles your ear And freezes On the pillow Wake up Feel the puff in your eyes And wash the salt on your face With more salt You felt way too beautiful Way too happy Way too alive Yesterday morning, to wake up like this. I watch the kitchen countertop Breakfast on my plate For a moment I see the watermelon seeds on the tile Through the swamp in my eyes For a moment They move As if alive Until I realise They are living And in waiting For a moment I forget I want to die What in the world happened on April 6th that made you write this past me??
It's really easy to just shit on this kind of poetry, and I really appreciate Jack's empathy and curiosity towards it. This is a great exploration of it, and you should be proud!
My favorite one of these poems (which yes is making fun of rupi kaur) is this: Was my heart just cartilage -- and you, a piercing gun at claire's? Makes me laugh every single time
Every time i pick up one of these poetry books I'm reminded of 13 year old me thinking i was angsty. My diary was full of shitty poetry about how the world didn't understand me or my crush didn't like me.
It's the right age to be all those things, we've all been there and those who say they haven't been there are going through it during their adulthood lmao
as someone who writes poetry, i'm grateful that you brought attention to the fact that if people can relate to the words written, if in some shape or form they found it reassuring, less lonely and positive towards their mental health - then people should just be allowed to write on a vulnerable level without fearing criticism. having said that, i do agree that once your work is published or you're building a platform around it - you should be accepting and open to criticism to improve your craft further. anyways great video as always ✨
Some of rupi kaurs poems will forever have a place in my heart, as some of them deal with csa or sa. I found her books while I came to terms with the fact that I experienced that and reading someone else's words, thoughts and feelings regarding that topic, while not knowing or understanding mine, helped. After reading one of her books, I think it actually was milk and honey, I started to open up about my own story. So I will forever be thankful for finding her work at that time and for it being so accessible
I have to say hearing Rupi Kaur mentioned in a grouping with Gabbie Hannah was disappointing…. These two have nothing in common. Rupi Kaur is an actual poet.
same, just because her poetry is accessible doesn't mean she lacks talent. i haven't read one of her books in a while, but i remember reading them and being so deeply impacted by her worldview especially talking about grief and sa. the way that her books are organized feels like she's letting you into her mind as she is growing from these experiences and it helped me get through mine. i don't think it's for everyone, but comparing her to the others on this list feels unnecessarily harsh.
English is my second language, and normal traditional poetry is so hard for me to read and understand (unlike poetry in my own language), so this type of poetry is easier for me to digest and connect with. It’s always nice to hear you discuss a topic without judging people for liking it
Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's bad. But it's also okay to acknowledge some poetry is better. I write this type of poetry as well, and I'm fully aware there are a lot of better poets out there, but that doesn't mean my poetry is bad ☺️ whatever I write is always with genuine intention and a vision, something I want to get out of my head. Just like with all other forms of art, it doesn't have to be complex or take great skill, or honestly even be 'marketably good' to be art. We can create simply because we have the urge to create. There doesn't have to be a point to prove or something to 'win'. The best thing I learned during the pandemic was to let go of goals or expectations when creating, and just make things for the experience of making them.
This is such a refreshing take on notes app poetry and authors like Rupi Kaur. For various reasons I could write an essay and not a youtube comment on, I used to severely discredit poetry despite being an avid reader. After reading Milk and Honey, my perspective on it completely changed, I started to love poetry and get into it myself. Would I like Kaur’s work to the same extent now as I did then? Probably not. But notes app poetry is still a gateway for so many people, and shouldn’t be disregarded as often as I see online.
as someone who writes poetry where rhyme and meter are very crucial and takes a long time to make it cohesive, i can understand it gets frustrating when what looks like a monologue with line breaks gets more recognition, but in the end expression is unique, and poetry can take many meanings.
I've seen many people criticise a poem for rhyming. I've seen many people criticise a poem for not rhyming. So I just write for myself first and foremost in whatever form feels best for that particular piece of writing.
I see it as pop culture. Like with movies, music, art, now poetry's got its pop branch. Pop is fine, but it doesn't scratch every itch, so you go in search of the good stuff which is usually more complex, better crafted, though-out, transports you into the work, basically gives you more.
lol as someone who still uses tumblr (surprise! we’re still here) i can say the main themes have definitely moved on to icarus, cannibalism, holiness, pomegranates, etc. yea the hands and heart are still there though
@@aurora_skye there's no way all of our poetry is bad, I'm sure yours is completely fine and good! it's also subjective so don't you dare think that yours is bad, even if it sounds like tumblr poetry. tumblr has some BANGERS!
Meanwhile, in my notes app: - list of possible Christmas gifts - shopping list - food orders - packing lists - itineraries - e-mail drafts - calculations - party menues - to do lists - guest lists - lists of questions for specific meetings ...
This man really managed to give an in-depth, incredibly interesting lecture on the most (stupidly) dramatic form of poetry 😭 we need more of jack teaching, this was amazing!
The tumblr poems being in the same font too got me thinking, would we read these with the same weight as if it was written in comic sans for example? Or word art? Imagine Shakespeare’s poetry in word art 😂
Agreed! I'm guilty of purchasing one of these poems books during a hard phase of my life. It helped me gather the courage to move forward and strive for better. Reading it again, I can totally see why it's not a literary masterpiece and I'm a bit embarrassed. Sometimes, it screams teenager angst and unrefined poetry. However, I'm glad I bought it, it gave me the words I needed during this period of time when I wasn't ready to talk to others.
Even though I don’t post or publish my poetry, I’ve always critiqued and downplayed it because some of it is written similarly to this “notes app” style and there is a world of hate and mockery surrounding it online. thank you for talking about it in a way that doesn’t invalidate or put down people who write, enjoy, and resonate with poems like these ❤️
As a poetry lover and someone who does write, I used to be a lot more strict and critical of the form and structure but as I get older I came to understand that you can literally feel when someone wrote their pieces from the heart or if they were just trying to write a poem. And while form and structure is something that separates poetry from prose, I believe it’s the emotions that the poems evoke that are even more important. Neruda’s “Tonight I can write the saddest lines” I know by heart because something in that poem speaks to my heart. And even though he has other good works, there is a reason why most people love that poem and why it’s so known. When I write from heart about something I feel deeply (whether it’s love, loss, injustice, hope, personal events) the form and rhythm present themselves, I don’t need to force words to rhyme, or count the syllables to get the right metric, or force figures of speech…they just happen naturally. And I think every piece that I wrote like that was 10x better than the one I forced myself to write. But, I think you need to write (and read) hundreds of bad (or not quite right) pieces to write one that’s good.
thats funny because thats the main barrier for me to poetry is the pretentious aura lmao i want to write and read it more but its hard to get past that feeling
As a notes app "poet" it hits the mark😂. But really, writing in notes app doesn't mean necessarily that your writing is bad. It's not a category or classification. A poem/prose can just be as meaningful with or without having big words. Written on notes app or written on paper. It's the thought and feeling that matters!❤
I have never liked rupi Kaur's poetry but was willing to be open ab its worth and importance to people and then I saw the clip of her reading it aloud and almost spat my tea
dakota warren did a (now deleted i think) video on _this_ type of poetry and she made some incredible points too because she is incredible ! it's a shame she deleted it, i remember the comments were criticising the video for dismissing "art" but i think she was completely right. hope jack's video gets better reception, jack and dakota fans rise up ‼️
Ok but I read her book and it’s pretty much if you fed chat gpt a rupi kaur and told it to make it edgy. It’s all aesthetics with no real soul. That’s the trouble with being a book content creator while also being a writer, people expect you to deliver something better than what you’re critiquing and that wasn’t the case. I think she even deleted this video because I can’t find it anymore.
Honestly I like Dakota but her videos are mostly her babbling jacks videos are more coherent and his thesis is more clear, well thought out, and structured
Roughest Drafts did a video with the same subject a couple months ago, which is like a good companion piece to this because he talks a little more about the history of it in terms of publishing and the wider impact and Rupi's other work.
I recommend this video. I came from the Roughest Drafts video (watched the Rupi Kaur/Gabbie Hanna/instapoetry one a while ago but rewatched it and also watched the Megan Fox video which is also a good video to watch on this topic-ish IMO).
The notes app “poem” on the thumbnail is the icing on the cake lol. Some really decent poets by the way (in my opinion): 1. Ilya Kaminsky, “Deaf Republic” 2. Warsan Shire, “Teaching my Mother how to give birth.” She worked on Lemonade with Beyoncé, so you know she’s good. 3. ANY Mary Oliver. I have never liked nature poetry until reading hers. 4. Margaret Atwood has some pretty decent poems 5. Any June Jordan 6. Any Langston Hughes 7. Allen Ginsberg if you like weird-drug fueled poetry. He has some decent, more coherent ones though, or at least ones worth learning about. 8. Maggie Smith Edit: 9. Carol Ann Duffy 10. Louise Glück 12. Richard Siken of course! His first collection ‘Crush’ has been used to death for fan edits/fiction, but outside of that it’s a really fantastic piece of work. 13. Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath are worth learning about. There’s a reading of his poem, “Love song” done by Cillian Murphy that absolutely makes me swoon. Listen to it alone though….😬 There are many, many more! But these are some of my favorites and they are not tumblr poems 😂 take it with a grain of salt though.
Thankyou for these suggestions....i have read the poems of Sylvia Plath and seeing her name in the list now kind of makes me curious about how other poets are...so yeah I'll definitely look forward and read them😁
When I was like 14 or 15 I was so down bad for my friend that when I found out he liked another girl and was going on a date with her, I wrote a whole SONG in my journal about how I should’ve shown I liked him sooner. Needless to say I have since then crumpled those pages up and DESTROYED them so no one would ever see it
Okay it’s sooooo funny that you just posted this bc I watched your “guessing the Booker prize winner” video last night and you were like gagging over that one page of The Bee Sting where it’s like “love. we do this for love” or whatever it was and my immediate thought was like “that rupi kaur ass instagram story ass line” and like I’m sure in context it hit but out of context it was so cheesy so it’s just funny to me that now you’re making this video 😭😭😭
it's really awesome that jack really dove deep into this area of culture, inside of immediately bashing it the way I have seen so many other creators do. it really shows how he wants to find the good in all art, because there is something to be learned from it!
no but fr as an MFA student and published poet… most people don’t know what GOOD poetry is, and have only read classics and instagram poetry, and that’s why people think it’s sappy and cringe. I’d recommend Chen Chen, Lorna Crozier, Franny Choi, and Billy-Rae Belcourt for people looking to get into contemporary poetry!
@@hannyb9417 Read many different kinds and see what you like! The one thing I really dislike about this instagram poetry (there are many things but this is one of the biggest issues I have) is that there are too many people who stick themselves comfortably into that niche and never read poetry outside of it. They're missing out on a huge variety of the genre if they never look further. I think Sylvia Plath might be a good next step for someone who likes instagram poetry, mostly because the themes can be a bit similar. But Sylvia Plath is on another level - I can't think of any of these modern instagram-type poets who come close to her. But the same goes for other poets who are not in the instagram genre! Kae Tempest is someone I like as well. Emily Dickinson might also be a good choice. And there is no getting around Mary Oliver or Louise Glück.
@@hannyb9417as a general rule, if poetry evokes a powerful image or emotion it’s good or at LEAST ok. Obv “good poetry” is subjective so that’s rlly up to u tho
Genuinely love your video essays! I love how you can put on the critical lit studies hat without being really negative. Your videos always make me think, but they never stress me out, you seem so kind!
I don’t dislike rupi kaur’s poetry so much as I absolutely cannot stand it anytime I see her read her own poetry. She delivers her words with so much ego and pretension, like she’s absolutely certain the things she’s saying are the smartest, most revelatory thing you’ve ever heard. She reads like she’s condescending to me
you are most definitely not alone in this experience, i write poetry for all my crushes, there aren't a lot of them so it's very intense, either way it is a shock when i randomly open the app for some other work.
this is so random but you should definitely do “analysing literary references in A series of unfortunate events” It’s such an interesting show and every episode is packed with references to classic authors or books!!!
you really called me out with the notes app poetry since i write all my poetry in my notes app before i write it down on paper or my laptop 😂😂 but (i hope) that my notes app poetry isnt as bad as that notes app poetry
this is one of the best vids ive seen on this topic, that someone sees value in something means it has some value, it doesnt have to mean everything to everyone
“Ever been so down bad for someone they have you in your notes app” I once wrote a dissertation length note about a situationship basically telling the whole story and I’d update it every time something happened for well over a year, for it to just end. Great use of my time👍🏼
I would absolutely buy a poetry book from you! 😂 I feel like you have such a good sense of humor and to read you narrating your life on a light hearted and deeper scale would be so fun and relatable. Loved this video ❤ and completely agree on your summary!
Excellent video Jack! You did this without making people who enjoy notes app poetry feel like they're not smart enough. There is something out there for everyone in the poetry world, just let people like what they like. That goes for music, books and movies too... I'm particularly sore 🤣after having two lads at the weekend think it was hilarious when I said La La Land was my favourite movie, I related hard to that ending, so it's everything to me. Different strokes, for different folks.
It is interesting that poetry students are taught that poetry is making the familiar unfamiliar and vice-versa, but this poetry is keeping the familiar as familiar as possible to as wide an audiance as possible.
Sharing my favorite notes app poem here!! “they did not tell me it would hurt like this no one warned me about the heartbreak we experience with friends where are the albums i thought there were no songs sung for it i could not find the ballads or read the books dedicated to writing the grief we fall into when friends leave it is the type of heartache that does not hit you like a tsunami it is a slow cancer the kind that does not show up for months has no visible signs is an ache here a headache there but manageable cancer or tsunami it all ends the same a friend or a lover a loss is a loss is a loss -the underrated heartache” Rupi Kaur
with Rupi Kaur it also feels a lot more like spoken word for me. I went to one of her shows and with one of her pieces about anxiety, it felt like she was able to tell people what I was going through when I couldn't do that. I highly recommend going to her shows!
Love your refreshing attitude towards this. I feel like some of the hatred to this style of poetry stems from people wanting to feel superior by only putting value in classical literature
It’s interesting to see the slight differences between how you described Milk in Honey in the past on your blog to now. You can see how as a reader you have evolved
You truly truly truly remind me of my AP Literature teacher in HS 🤣🤣. The way you did the poem and switching out is what he would do with my writing and tell me to go "deeper" or "more in depth". I would definitely take your class if I was back in school
honestly jack i commend you for being brave enough to critique, albeit poignantly and not snobbishly, this phenomenon in the publishing industry which i have found interesting for a while as well
I almost died reading my old note app poetry i wrote few years back now that i am about to publish them. I sent it to the editors and mind you i blush twice a day knowing the editors will be cringing.
I really liked this topic! I'm probably the only English major alive who really doesn't like poetry, so I typically enjoy "notes app poetry" and the like. Poetry is just one of the few things I don't really love to analyze. Ig I'm just not a very feelings-y type of person, which is what I typically think poetry is about. Anyways, I've always said that as long as you enjoyed it or got something out of it, then the poetry did its job. I really like the accessible aspect of simple poems
notes app poetry is not inherently bad but i think a lot of times it is used to reduce the effort that writing good poetry takes - so with this i mean a lot of this type of poetry is bad because the author uses it as a way to write quicker instead of using it because the format actually adds something to what they have to say
hearing "taylor swift was raised by tumblr" with specifically a blank space lyric like the day after getting a blank space hannigram edit on my tiktok fyp is like a double hit to my psyche (it was a great edit tho!)
I'm not the biggest fan of rupi kaur but i really started appreciating how vocal she is about world issues and stands her ground. Really made me respect her even more.
honestly, I dabbled in poetry briefly a few times in the past and a lot of it felt like this. I think its a sign of someone who doesn't have a ton of experience in the medium, but if it gets you into it I think it's a good thing. I didn't stick with poetry but learning about it definitely made me a better writer, I think.
I think someone that can do free verse very well is wendy cope. obviously “the orange” has blown up recently but in general so many of her poems are in free verse or very simple rhyme schemes, but in my opinion I think Cope’s poems have so much more depth than notes app poems, but it can be hard to recognize because her written word is so simple, which can be what makes her poems so incredible!
As someone who has studied yeats and Eliot when you were describing the features of notes app poetry all I could think was they are the notes app poets of their day to some extent
I read a poem at an open mic yesterday for the first time in front of all my professors and classmates and MA students too … literally started like this “I started to write this poem on my notes app when I couldn’t sleep…” god now I’m 1 minute into this video and embarrassed af Edit I watched a bit further and although I draft a lot of my poems on my phone, this doesn’t seem to describe me 😎❤
I love the juxtaposition of how this free-form word-vomit TikTok poetry is received in literature circles versus musical circles. I’m not saying that every musician loves TikTok poetry but I will say that my choir director who was also a prolific composer used to say that his favorite music was “written like it was spoken”. The energy of the human voice is something that is very difficult to capture in a way that makes rhythmic sense. Although it is a more advanced skill to write limericks than free -form, limericks are more easily transcribed into music. Maybe these bad notes-app poems aren’t wretched, they are just incomplete.
the nature of the genre is that it's accessible, broadly relatable, easy to write and easy to digest. thats really what ties all the works described in the video together. so how good & literary & deep a notes app poem can be is inherently limited. As soon as you try to get specific, get creative with your language or form, or use a more complex metaphor, you lose the essential characteristics of the genre. your poem is no longer a "notes app" poem. that said i agree with the thesis of the video - even if these poems lack literary merit, there is value in accessible literature and skill in being able to write effectively to such a broad audience. it's the pop music of poetry - and lots of pop music is very good!
This inspired me to track down a poem I wrote 3 years ago that is atrocious but desperately trying to relocate Tumblr poetry and i cackled while reading it, realizing I was in fact, the stereotype. You, me. You alone hold the ability to change the way I use my senses. Cigarettes, coffee, and lack of sleep protruding from every pore in your body. Your soul is made up of fragments containing the wishes of your past-lovers. You form and craft the lenses that we look up to you with. Care and patience engraved into the glass, making the lights of night dance in heart-shaped bliss. The soft glow of my car’s dashboard reflects off the elegant shine of your skin. You are a sparkling seltzer, and I am the Diet Coke that laid flat in an abrasive yellow cup for far too long; Splashing from side to side as my poor driving abilities lead us over yet another curb. The scuffs that decorate my car would look as if an estranged dent in your figure. I collect blemishes like trading cards, hoarding them in my closet until the door no longer closes. You are the result of a perilous architect risking her career for a wondrous display. Each curve and feature, carefully crafted by the hands of our creator. Your hair was made to be confused for gold, eyes designed to hold admiration for each creature that crosses your path. Hands that contain the delicate patterns of creases that decorate your palms like a fine lace. Your arms’ are walking a tightrope between thin and regal; somehow blurring the stone set lines. You are a walking enigma my dear, half of my soul; although I am no poet.
I love the take-away of this video! I’ve been saying this forever. Art is a means of expression first and foremost, and we should give people the room to create. Not everything has to be “high art.”
Carl Sandburg and William Carlos Williams are great examples of how simple and short free verse is not always insipid. "The fog comes / on little cat feet. // It sits looking / over harbor and city / on silent haunches / and then moves on." I think someone unfamiliar with those poets could look at their work and see notes app poetry. "I have eaten the plums that were in the ice box and which you were probably saving for breakfast. Forgive me. They were delicious; so sweet and so cold."
I understand what you're saying about this sub-genre of poetry and their simplicity. The thing is, it made poetry accessible. Or at least it did for me. After high school, where they start you on poetry with poems about ravens and fields from the 1800s and 1900s I was lost. I didn't read any poetry for years (while I read over 100 books a year). The easy metaphors and accessible themes made it fun again🤷
omg i wrote my poetry minor about this kind of poetry, around three years ago, and only now do i realize theres a better term to the subgenre than just freeverse thank you HAHAH
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
omg going on your notes app in broad daylight to look at your grocery list and finding the most depressing note/poetry you wrote when you were down bad and cringing at yourself, is definitely a universal experience 😭
It is HUMBLING
haha literally 😂😂😂 .. 20:40 tue
So truee😂
So truee🤣🤣 it gets even weirder if you don't remember writing it like this one thing I wrote
She oils
With what feels like love
You lather
Wash your hair
Only for it to feel
Like nothing (by the afternoon)
Just so the strands
To slip through
My hands
Like something
I can never know
But only remember
The nights when you know your mother
Will never love you
Your secret waits safe in the closet
watches the sporadic smiles
Affectionate touches
That remain
And vouches(vouching) to snatch even those away
A burning tear you didn't know was welling up in your eyes
Tickles your ear
And freezes
On the pillow
Wake up
Feel the puff in your eyes
And wash the salt on your face
With more salt
You felt way too beautiful
Way too happy
Way too alive
Yesterday morning, to wake up like this.
I watch the kitchen countertop
Breakfast on my plate
For a moment
I see the watermelon seeds on the tile
Through the swamp in my eyes
For a moment
They move
As if alive
Until I realise
They are living
And in waiting
For a moment I forget
I want to die
What in the world happened on April 6th that made you write this past me??
@@nave_3030 😂😂😂 ... this is funny
as the water in
my hair
changed to sweat on my brow
i realized
i couldn’t hear him
anymore
- don’t dry your hair while watching youtube
😂😂😂😂
This is so good, cause I too, dry my hair while watching youtube video's 😂
This is amazing haha 😂
This one’s the best lmao 🤣
Brilliant lol
After reading the comments: Now I need a video of Jack judging OUR shitty notes poetry 😭💀
That would be so fun😂🤣
I would love that 😭😭
OMG please I have so many 😂 JACK JUDGE US!!!
Brilliant!
omg this is a GREAT idea
every time i have to hear jack speak in cursive voice i lose five years off my lifespan and suffer from significant hair loss. it’s iconic
the voice is basically radioactive lol
When he slipped into it I was like... wtf is happening lol
It sounds like Barry Keoghan
I thought it was a british accent (I am not a native english speaker and have trouble picking up accents)
"You were raised by Tumblr and are now in therapy" I've never felt more called out in my life 🤣🤣🤣
Same 😂😂😂
Same ohmygod he went for the jugular 🤣
I'm still on there
if jack was my professor i would never miss a class cuz THIS MAN CAN TEACH
You Are
so articulate
The words
Your vibes
Are immaculate
🙃
lol this is perfection 😂
omg where’s the poetry collection 😳😸😍🫣🫢
++
ok why are these unpublished poetry examples better than most published notes app poetry pieces 😂😂😂
fr
right i’m like maybe 15 year old me was onto something
It's really easy to just shit on this kind of poetry, and I really appreciate Jack's empathy and curiosity towards it. This is a great exploration of it, and you should be proud!
My favorite one of these poems (which yes is making fun of rupi kaur) is this:
Was my
heart
just cartilage --
and you,
a piercing gun
at claire's?
Makes me laugh every single time
crying 😂
I wish there was a way to save youtube comments because this is so good.
@@Saphia_i just screenshot them lol
@@noemiesdreams I did. But I also know it'll end up buried under like 500 photos of the sky and my cat in like a month.
it wouldn't be as cringe if it didn't say "from claire's". still would be bad though
Every time i pick up one of these poetry books I'm reminded of 13 year old me thinking i was angsty. My diary was full of shitty poetry about how the world didn't understand me or my crush didn't like me.
Ikr we've all been there
It's the right age to be all those things, we've all been there and those who say they haven't been there are going through it during their adulthood lmao
The two spectrums of girlhood: The world doesn't understand me and my crush doesn't like me
real
@@moonriversouthe common canon event that we cannot interfere 😂 and a plot that’s in anime 💀
as someone who writes poetry, i'm grateful that you brought attention to the fact that if people can relate to the words written, if in some shape or form they found it reassuring, less lonely and positive towards their mental health - then people should just be allowed to write on a vulnerable level without fearing criticism. having said that, i do agree that once your work is published or you're building a platform around it - you should be accepting and open to criticism to improve your craft further. anyways great video as always ✨
Some of rupi kaurs poems will forever have a place in my heart, as some of them deal with csa or sa. I found her books while I came to terms with the fact that I experienced that and reading someone else's words, thoughts and feelings regarding that topic, while not knowing or understanding mine, helped. After reading one of her books, I think it actually was milk and honey, I started to open up about my own story. So I will forever be thankful for finding her work at that time and for it being so accessible
Ikrr....there was this one poetry in milk and honey, about father daughter relationship on call....it touched me the most😭🤌🏻
I have to say hearing Rupi Kaur mentioned in a grouping with Gabbie Hannah was disappointing…. These two have nothing in common. Rupi Kaur is an actual poet.
I read them before sa happened and read it after and she got me through and continues to get me through it when it gets tough
same, just because her poetry is accessible doesn't mean she lacks talent. i haven't read one of her books in a while, but i remember reading them and being so deeply impacted by her worldview especially talking about grief and sa. the way that her books are organized feels like she's letting you into her mind as she is growing from these experiences and it helped me get through mine. i don't think it's for everyone, but comparing her to the others on this list feels unnecessarily harsh.
same
English is my second language, and normal traditional poetry is so hard for me to read and understand (unlike poetry in my own language), so this type of poetry is easier for me to digest and connect with. It’s always nice to hear you discuss a topic without judging people for liking it
You have inspired me to write my own cringeworthy poetry in the middle of the night, thanks
stop this 😭 you literally described my notes app poems perfectly i’m so embarrassed i can’t write poetry for my life
Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's bad. But it's also okay to acknowledge some poetry is better. I write this type of poetry as well, and I'm fully aware there are a lot of better poets out there, but that doesn't mean my poetry is bad ☺️ whatever I write is always with genuine intention and a vision, something I want to get out of my head. Just like with all other forms of art, it doesn't have to be complex or take great skill, or honestly even be 'marketably good' to be art. We can create simply because we have the urge to create. There doesn't have to be a point to prove or something to 'win'. The best thing I learned during the pandemic was to let go of goals or expectations when creating, and just make things for the experience of making them.
He also said that if you're not publishing it then no one has the right to criticize it so do your thing!
SAMEE
honey im right there with u lmaooo (i thought mine was good but this video has me WONDERING)
This is such a refreshing take on notes app poetry and authors like Rupi Kaur. For various reasons I could write an essay and not a youtube comment on, I used to severely discredit poetry despite being an avid reader. After reading Milk and Honey, my perspective on it completely changed, I started to love poetry and get into it myself. Would I like Kaur’s work to the same extent now as I did then? Probably not. But notes app poetry is still a gateway for so many people, and shouldn’t be disregarded as often as I see online.
as someone who writes poetry where rhyme and meter are very crucial and takes a long time to make it cohesive, i can understand it gets frustrating when what looks like a monologue with line breaks gets more recognition, but in the end expression is unique, and poetry can take many meanings.
I've seen many people criticise a poem for rhyming. I've seen many people criticise a poem for not rhyming. So I just write for myself first and foremost in whatever form feels best for that particular piece of writing.
I see it as pop culture. Like with movies, music, art, now poetry's got its pop branch. Pop is fine, but it doesn't scratch every itch, so you go in search of the good stuff which is usually more complex, better crafted, though-out, transports you into the work, basically gives you more.
lol as someone who still uses tumblr (surprise! we’re still here) i can say the main themes have definitely moved on to icarus, cannibalism, holiness, pomegranates, etc. yea the hands and heart are still there though
i was watching this thinking "omg does MY poetry sound like this??" and now im overanalyzing everything ive ever written. maybe its a sign lmao
Same :/
@@aurora_skye there's no way all of our poetry is bad, I'm sure yours is completely fine and good! it's also subjective so don't you dare think that yours is bad, even if it sounds like tumblr poetry. tumblr has some BANGERS!
Yep.
sameee
Same
Meanwhile, in my notes app:
- list of possible Christmas gifts
- shopping list
- food orders
- packing lists
- itineraries
- e-mail drafts
- calculations
- party menues
- to do lists
- guest lists
- lists of questions for specific meetings
...
This man really managed to give an in-depth, incredibly interesting lecture on the most (stupidly) dramatic form of poetry 😭 we need more of jack teaching, this was amazing!
The tumblr poems being in the same font too got me thinking, would we read these with the same weight as if it was written in comic sans for example? Or word art? Imagine Shakespeare’s poetry in word art 😂
I love notes app poetry, the common man’s art
M a n g o e s 😔🤌
Agreed! I'm guilty of purchasing one of these poems books during a hard phase of my life. It helped me gather the courage to move forward and strive for better. Reading it again, I can totally see why it's not a literary masterpiece and I'm a bit embarrassed. Sometimes, it screams teenager angst and unrefined poetry. However, I'm glad I bought it, it gave me the words I needed during this period of time when I wasn't ready to talk to others.
I thought Jack was going to say "If you were raised on tumblr you are entitled to financial compensation."
Even though I don’t post or publish my poetry, I’ve always critiqued and downplayed it because some of it is written similarly to this “notes app” style and there is a world of hate and mockery surrounding it online. thank you for talking about it in a way that doesn’t invalidate or put down people who write, enjoy, and resonate with poems like these ❤️
As a poetry lover and someone who does write, I used to be a lot more strict and critical of the form and structure but as I get older I came to understand that you can literally feel when someone wrote their pieces from the heart or if they were just trying to write a poem. And while form and structure is something that separates poetry from prose, I believe it’s the emotions that the poems evoke that are even more important. Neruda’s “Tonight I can write the saddest lines” I know by heart because something in that poem speaks to my heart. And even though he has other good works, there is a reason why most people love that poem and why it’s so known. When I write from heart about something I feel deeply (whether it’s love, loss, injustice, hope, personal events) the form and rhythm present themselves, I don’t need to force words to rhyme, or count the syllables to get the right metric, or force figures of speech…they just happen naturally. And I think every piece that I wrote like that was 10x better than the one I forced myself to write. But, I think you need to write (and read) hundreds of bad (or not quite right) pieces to write one that’s good.
jack reading his own notes app poetry and explaining the tought process behind it really made me wanna hug him 🫂
As a note app poet, myself!! The parodies are funny!! some hurt my feelings lowkey but damn I just like the "pretentious" air of poetry.
thats funny because thats the main barrier for me to poetry is the pretentious aura lmao i want to write and read it more but its hard to get past that feeling
that poetry voice you put on made me absolutely laugh out loud thank you xxx
We need more content like this Jack!
You're amazing at dissecting topics for discussions.
We need you to make more poetry analysis and improving tiktok poetry content !! I love what you did at 14:40 :)
yes i loved that! would def watch a video of you doing this
FR OMG
I agree!
As a notes app "poet" it hits the mark😂. But really, writing in notes app doesn't mean necessarily that your writing is bad. It's not a category or classification. A poem/prose can just be as meaningful with or without having big words. Written on notes app or written on paper. It's the thought and feeling that matters!❤
I have never liked rupi Kaur's poetry but was willing to be open ab its worth and importance to people and then I saw the clip of her reading it aloud and almost spat my tea
yeah i LOVED her book but i saw that and was like hello wtf and that ruined my mental image 😭
Her poetry isn't that bad like the others. They're deeper at least than the other ones on this list but the way she says her poems I always crack up 😭
Jack Edwards was an aesthetic tumblr girlie confirmed.
Jack in his consistent era, we love a prolific booktube king!
dakota warren did a (now deleted i think) video on _this_ type of poetry and she made some incredible points too because she is incredible ! it's a shame she deleted it, i remember the comments were criticising the video for dismissing "art" but i think she was completely right. hope jack's video gets better reception, jack and dakota fans rise up ‼️
@@user-qu8zs7vs1xi agree :/// she focuses too much on ~aesthetique~
Ok but I read her book and it’s pretty much if you fed chat gpt a rupi kaur and told it to make it edgy. It’s all aesthetics with no real soul.
That’s the trouble with being a book content creator while also being a writer, people expect you to deliver something better than what you’re critiquing and that wasn’t the case. I think she even deleted this video because I can’t find it anymore.
Honestly I like Dakota but her videos are mostly her babbling jacks videos are more coherent and his thesis is more clear, well thought out, and structured
my first thought at this video title was *cough* Dakota *cough*
@@user-qu8zs7vs1x to be fair jack seems to not get half the criticism any woman in the book space does
Roughest Drafts did a video with the same subject a couple months ago, which is like a good companion piece to this because he talks a little more about the history of it in terms of publishing and the wider impact and Rupi's other work.
I recommend this video. I came from the Roughest Drafts video (watched the Rupi Kaur/Gabbie Hanna/instapoetry one a while ago but rewatched it and also watched the Megan Fox video which is also a good video to watch on this topic-ish IMO).
13:47 omg I love that your english lit side came out, I love these corrections
The notes app “poem” on the thumbnail is the icing on the cake lol.
Some really decent poets by the way (in my opinion):
1. Ilya Kaminsky, “Deaf Republic”
2. Warsan Shire, “Teaching my Mother how to give birth.” She worked on Lemonade with Beyoncé, so you know she’s good.
3. ANY Mary Oliver. I have never liked nature poetry until reading hers.
4. Margaret Atwood has some pretty decent poems
5. Any June Jordan
6. Any Langston Hughes
7. Allen Ginsberg if you like weird-drug fueled poetry. He has some decent, more coherent ones though, or at least ones worth learning about.
8. Maggie Smith
Edit:
9. Carol Ann Duffy
10. Louise Glück
12. Richard Siken of course! His first collection ‘Crush’ has been used to death for fan edits/fiction, but outside of that it’s a really fantastic piece of work.
13. Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath are worth learning about. There’s a reading of his poem, “Love song” done by Cillian Murphy that absolutely makes me swoon. Listen to it alone though….😬
There are many, many more! But these are some of my favorites and they are not tumblr poems 😂 take it with a grain of salt though.
carol ann duffy as well! i read some of her work for class and found some of my favourite poems ever.
Thankyou for these suggestions....i have read the poems of Sylvia Plath and seeing her name in the list now kind of makes me curious about how other poets are...so yeah I'll definitely look forward and read them😁
Yes, but obligatory "fuck Ted Hughes". Sylvia Plath deserved better than that clown.
I loved Warsan and it also told me to go to therapy.
Mary Oliver is amazing❤
Need
When I was like 14 or 15 I was so down bad for my friend that when I found out he liked another girl and was going on a date with her, I wrote a whole SONG in my journal about how I should’ve shown I liked him sooner. Needless to say I have since then crumpled those pages up and DESTROYED them so no one would ever see it
For ages I didn’t think of these as real poems, then I read a rupi kaur and found myself with tears in my eyes
Okay it’s sooooo funny that you just posted this bc I watched your “guessing the Booker prize winner” video last night and you were like gagging over that one page of The Bee Sting where it’s like “love. we do this for love” or whatever it was and my immediate thought was like “that rupi kaur ass instagram story ass line” and like I’m sure in context it hit but out of context it was so cheesy so it’s just funny to me that now you’re making this video 😭😭😭
it's really awesome that jack really dove deep into this area of culture, inside of immediately bashing it the way I have seen so many other creators do. it really shows how he wants to find the good in all art, because there is something to be learned from it!
For poetry lovers there is a podcast called On being and they have audio recordings of poets reading their poems it’s incredible
no but fr as an MFA student and published poet… most people don’t know what GOOD poetry is, and have only read classics and instagram poetry, and that’s why people think it’s sappy and cringe. I’d recommend Chen Chen, Lorna Crozier, Franny Choi, and Billy-Rae Belcourt for people looking to get into contemporary poetry!
But how do you know whether poetry is good or not? Because I genuinely cannot tell most of the time
Sherwin Bitsui, Sally Wen Mao, Federico García Lorca, Karen Solie....older poetry...
..John Donne, George Herbert, Blake, etc
@@hannyb9417 Read many different kinds and see what you like! The one thing I really dislike about this instagram poetry (there are many things but this is one of the biggest issues I have) is that there are too many people who stick themselves comfortably into that niche and never read poetry outside of it. They're missing out on a huge variety of the genre if they never look further.
I think Sylvia Plath might be a good next step for someone who likes instagram poetry, mostly because the themes can be a bit similar. But Sylvia Plath is on another level - I can't think of any of these modern instagram-type poets who come close to her. But the same goes for other poets who are not in the instagram genre!
Kae Tempest is someone I like as well. Emily Dickinson might also be a good choice. And there is no getting around Mary Oliver or Louise Glück.
@@hannyb9417if it makes you see language in a new way, or feel something, or surprises you… a good poem can stick with you
@@hannyb9417as a general rule, if poetry evokes a powerful image or emotion it’s good or at LEAST ok. Obv “good poetry” is subjective so that’s rlly up to u tho
Genuinely love your video essays! I love how you can put on the critical lit studies hat without being really negative. Your videos always make me think, but they never stress me out, you seem so kind!
I don’t dislike rupi kaur’s poetry so much as I absolutely cannot stand it anytime I see her read her own poetry. She delivers her words with so much ego and pretension, like she’s absolutely certain the things she’s saying are the smartest, most revelatory thing you’ve ever heard. She reads like she’s condescending to me
you are most definitely not alone in this experience, i write poetry for all my crushes, there aren't a lot of them so it's very intense, either way it is a shock when i randomly open the app for some other work.
this is so random but you should definitely do “analysing literary references in A series of unfortunate events” It’s such an interesting show and every episode is packed with references to classic authors or books!!!
you really called me out with the notes app poetry since i write all my poetry in my notes app before i write it down on paper or my laptop 😂😂
but (i hope) that my notes app poetry isnt as bad as that notes app poetry
this is one of the best vids ive seen on this topic, that someone sees value in something means it has some value, it doesnt have to mean everything to everyone
“Ever been so down bad for someone they have you in your notes app” I once wrote a dissertation length note about a situationship basically telling the whole story and I’d update it every time something happened for well over a year, for it to just end. Great use of my time👍🏼
I would absolutely buy a poetry book from you! 😂 I feel like you have such a good sense of humor and to read you narrating your life on a light hearted and deeper scale would be so fun and relatable. Loved this video ❤ and completely agree on your summary!
Excellent video Jack! You did this without making people who enjoy notes app poetry feel like they're not smart enough. There is something out there for everyone in the poetry world, just let people like what they like. That goes for music, books and movies too... I'm particularly sore 🤣after having two lads at the weekend think it was hilarious when I said La La Land was my favourite movie, I related hard to that ending, so it's everything to me. Different strokes, for different folks.
It is interesting that poetry students are taught that poetry is making the familiar unfamiliar and vice-versa, but this poetry is keeping the familiar as familiar as possible to as wide an audiance as possible.
Sharing my favorite notes app poem here!!
“they did not tell me it would hurt like this
no one warned me
about the heartbreak we experience with friends
where are the albums i thought
there were no songs sung for it
i could not find the ballads
or read the books dedicated to writing the grief
we fall into when friends leave
it is the type of heartache that
does not hit you like a tsunami
it is a slow cancer
the kind that does not show up for months
has no visible signs
is an ache here
a headache there
but manageable
cancer or tsunami
it all ends the same
a friend or a lover
a loss is a loss is a loss
-the underrated heartache”
Rupi Kaur
I had a stroke reading that 😅
. . . What?
omfg the cursive reading about the mangoes got me good
the first notes app poem I wrote was literally about two toothbrushes! I’m feeling incredibly called out…
with Rupi Kaur it also feels a lot more like spoken word for me. I went to one of her shows and with one of her pieces about anxiety, it felt like she was able to tell people what I was going through when I couldn't do that. I highly recommend going to her shows!
Love your refreshing attitude towards this. I feel like some of the hatred to this style of poetry stems from people wanting to feel superior by only putting value in classical literature
It’s interesting to see the slight differences between how you described Milk in Honey in the past on your blog to now. You can see how as a reader you have evolved
You truly truly truly remind me of my AP Literature teacher in HS 🤣🤣. The way you did the poem and switching out is what he would do with my writing and tell me to go "deeper" or "more in depth". I would definitely take your class if I was back in school
honestly jack i commend you for being brave enough to critique, albeit poignantly and not snobbishly, this phenomenon in the publishing industry which i have found interesting for a while as well
I almost died reading my old note app poetry i wrote few years back now that i am about to publish them. I sent it to the editors and mind you i blush twice a day knowing the editors will be cringing.
this is like the dramatic version of rappers thinking of a bar and writing it in their notes
I really liked this topic! I'm probably the only English major alive who really doesn't like poetry, so I typically enjoy "notes app poetry" and the like. Poetry is just one of the few things I don't really love to analyze. Ig I'm just not a very feelings-y type of person, which is what I typically think poetry is about. Anyways, I've always said that as long as you enjoyed it or got something out of it, then the poetry did its job. I really like the accessible aspect of simple poems
“the most depressing thing u ever read…and you wrote it!!” hahahh oof yeah that’s deff relatable 😅
notes app poetry is not inherently bad but i think a lot of times it is used to reduce the effort that writing good poetry takes - so with this i mean a lot of this type of poetry is bad because the author uses it as a way to write quicker instead of using it because the format actually adds something to what they have to say
Jack’s giving lecturers’ TA here (and I’m so here for it)
hearing "taylor swift was raised by tumblr" with specifically a blank space lyric like the day after getting a blank space hannigram edit on my tiktok fyp is like a double hit to my psyche (it was a great edit tho!)
I'm not the biggest fan of rupi kaur but i really started appreciating how vocal she is about world issues and stands her ground. Really made me respect her even more.
this needs to be much longer. i wish you spoke about poetry more.
honestly, I dabbled in poetry briefly a few times in the past and a lot of it felt like this. I think its a sign of someone who doesn't have a ton of experience in the medium, but if it gets you into it I think it's a good thing. I didn't stick with poetry but learning about it definitely made me a better writer, I think.
I think someone that can do free verse very well is wendy cope. obviously “the orange” has blown up recently but in general so many of her poems are in free verse or very simple rhyme schemes, but in my opinion I think Cope’s poems have so much more depth than notes app poems, but it can be hard to recognize because her written word is so simple, which can be what makes her poems so incredible!
As someone who has studied yeats and Eliot when you were describing the features of notes app poetry all I could think was they are the notes app poets of their day to some extent
I read a poem at an open mic yesterday for the first time in front of all my professors and classmates and MA students too … literally started like this “I started to write this poem on my notes app when I couldn’t sleep…” god now I’m 1 minute into this video and embarrassed af
Edit I watched a bit further and although I draft a lot of my poems on my phone, this doesn’t seem to describe me 😎❤
“we need a synonym babe” is the moto of my life. i feel validated.
0:48 YOU ARE NOT AT ALL ALONE IN IT JACK
I love the juxtaposition of how this free-form word-vomit TikTok poetry is received in literature circles versus musical circles. I’m not saying that every musician loves TikTok poetry but I will say that my choir director who was also a prolific composer used to say that his favorite music was “written like it was spoken”. The energy of the human voice is something that is very difficult to capture in a way that makes rhythmic sense. Although it is a more advanced skill to write limericks than free -form, limericks are more easily transcribed into music. Maybe these bad notes-app poems aren’t wretched, they are just incomplete.
the nature of the genre is that it's accessible, broadly relatable, easy to write and easy to digest. thats really what ties all the works described in the video together. so how good & literary & deep a notes app poem can be is inherently limited. As soon as you try to get specific, get creative with your language or form, or use a more complex metaphor, you lose the essential characteristics of the genre. your poem is no longer a "notes app" poem.
that said i agree with the thesis of the video - even if these poems lack literary merit, there is value in accessible literature and skill in being able to write effectively to such a broad audience. it's the pop music of poetry - and lots of pop music is very good!
This inspired me to track down a poem I wrote 3 years ago that is atrocious but desperately trying to relocate Tumblr poetry and i cackled while reading it, realizing I was in fact, the stereotype.
You, me.
You alone hold the ability to change the way I use my senses. Cigarettes, coffee, and lack of sleep protruding from every pore in your body. Your soul is made up of fragments containing the wishes of your past-lovers.
You form and craft the lenses that we look up to you with. Care and patience engraved into the glass, making the lights of night dance in heart-shaped bliss. The soft glow of my car’s dashboard reflects off the elegant shine of your skin.
You are a sparkling seltzer, and I am the Diet Coke that laid flat in an abrasive yellow cup for far too long; Splashing from side to side as my poor driving abilities lead us over yet another curb.
The scuffs that decorate my car would look as if an estranged dent in your figure. I collect blemishes like trading cards, hoarding them in my closet until the door no longer closes.
You are the result of a perilous architect risking her career for a wondrous display. Each curve and feature, carefully crafted by the hands of our creator.
Your hair was made to be confused for gold,
eyes designed to hold admiration for each creature that crosses your path.
Hands that contain the delicate patterns of creases that decorate your palms like a fine lace.
Your arms’ are walking a tightrope between thin and regal; somehow blurring the stone set lines.
You are a walking enigma my dear, half of my soul; although I am no poet.
Jack reading the notes app poetry in cursive is sending me 💀
9:22 why is this actually good like shakespeare could NEVER
that second video of rupi kaur will always haunt me (also you calling her the colleen hoover of poetry is PERFECT)
thank you for giving tik tok slides their flowers!! i have read some really beautiful writing on there
this is kinda weird like seeing how poetry works like looking inside mechanical clock for the first time, you're like oooh so it isn't magic
i literally was rewatching jacks video on tier ranking celeb poetry, opened my subscription box, and saw this video. Perfection.
I love the take-away of this video! I’ve been saying this forever. Art is a means of expression first and foremost, and we should give people the room to create. Not everything has to be “high art.”
Carl Sandburg and William Carlos Williams are great examples of how simple and short free verse is not always insipid.
"The fog comes / on little cat feet. // It sits looking / over harbor and city / on silent haunches / and then moves on."
I think someone unfamiliar with those poets could look at their work and see notes app poetry.
"I have eaten the plums that were in the ice box and which you were probably saving for breakfast. Forgive me. They were delicious; so sweet and so cold."
I understand what you're saying about this sub-genre of poetry and their simplicity. The thing is, it made poetry accessible. Or at least it did for me. After high school, where they start you on poetry with poems about ravens and fields from the 1800s and 1900s I was lost. I didn't read any poetry for years (while I read over 100 books a year). The easy metaphors and accessible themes made it fun again🤷
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THESE TYPE OF CONTENTS
PLEASE the "yesterday i went to the shop and bought m a n g o e s" part will forever live in my head rent free
That opening story is literally me 😩💀 Holy cow that had me immediately cracking up.
I would love to hear more of your notes app poetry!!
Jack you've done it again; constantly raising the bar for us all, and doing it effortlessly.
omg i wrote my poetry minor about this kind of poetry, around three years ago, and only now do i realize theres a better term to the subgenre than just freeverse thank you HAHAH
Jack I thought that toothbrush poem was really good genuinely I was moved ♥️