Bart, I'm 74. I lived within Jazz history, I hung out with Ornette, heard Trane many times. YOU are correct, jazz is a task master. You need Intelligence, Ear, Muscle Memory, encyclopedic erudition, and to know every genre that ever existed. Coltrane enabled us to approach music as a priesthood or shamanic process. IMHO that's what the calling is. It is not a religion. It's a discipline with spiritual aspects. Well spoken, amigo. What a wonderful essay.
Went to college for music, always had a hard time "really" playing jazz. I learned all the theory I possibly could and tried my best to apply it and it always felt like a cheap imitation of what I wanted to play. The Charlie Parker "forget all that shit and play" moment never came, until I started transcribing *everything*. Metal riffs, solos, pop music, video game tunes, chord changes from electronic music, bossa, film music. Going back to jazz is like speaking and knowing the ancient language that all this later music came from. That's not to say jazz is the be-all end-all music (though it really can feel like it), but the emphasis on deep harmony, deep rhythm, deep listening and improvisation reveals a lot about how musical ideas are constructed and developed, and that translates to anything else you listen to. On top of that, you need understand all these complex subjects on a sub-conscious level so that you can even play the damn songs correctly! I don't know what it takes to be a professional jazz musician in 2022. Some kind of hustle, extraversion and popularity I just can't seem to conjure up. But I feel like you're talking about something deeper here, which is what it means to call yourself a Jazz Musician, period. It's a lot more than playing some 7th chords over a lofi beat. It's more than memes about the Lick and Giant Steps. It's a practice that gives you tools to comprehend every kind of musical idea, and the instinct to absorb them and make them a part of your own musical language. Fantastic real talk.
Superb introspection. It all gets down to the musician and his instrument, which goes beyond the funnel of knowledge poured in as per the ingredients in a cake baking exercise. Mix in a bowl, pop in the oven and POOF, and hour later a JAZZ musician comes out. Doesn't work that way. However, if one were to join a blues band.......
During the lockdown, I think I listened to nearly 4,000 Jazz recordings all the way from 1950 up to today! All versions and offshoots of Jazz, I listened to it. From Cuba, USA, Brazil, Europe, Africa.... I'm so glad I did 👌🏿 Been studying Jazz history for quite a while; Reggae, Blues, Soul-R&B, Funk, you name it, I study the history. I'm a Bass Player. Anthony Jackson is my favorite Electric Bass player of all time 😎 Greetings from Uganda 🇺🇬👊🏿🖤
The word "know" has a different meaning to jazz musicians than in ordinary speech. "Knowing" a song means knowing the melody, chord changes, famous recordings, drum parts, piano parts, bass lines, etc. _from_ _memory_ . You can't fake your way around it. You have to go back to the records and really dig in. What was George Morrow doing on "Cherokee"? How about Louis Hayes on "Unit 7"? You're never going to learn it all, so you have to pick your spots: the recordings you love, plus the music that people _pay_ you to play. Sometimes that part is rough: you don't like "Satin Doll?" Well... someone _else_ does, so it's on you to play it to the best of your ability. This last part really holds true in any profession: you're going to really dislike bits of it, or at least find it tedious. My old roommate said: "Well, that's why they call it work."
I've been playing music for 20yrs as a professional saxophonist in south TX. I am 42 years old....NOT as skilled as you or many other younger cats, but I work often...because....I TRY TO PLAY EVERYTHING. IN OTHER WORDS....PLAY WHAT THE MUSIC TELLS YOU!! Pop...blues...bebop...free...funk...soul...latin...salsa... Afro-Cuban... Classical. All. Thanks man you are an amazing musician!
I’ve been playing for 50 years. I’ve found that the best way to be successful in music is to have a really good day job. I make some money playing sax but it was never enough to support my family.
For sure, that's always the most reliable route everyone needs to be aware of! And thank you for your time spent playing this music! The unfortunate reality in 2022 is that we are no longer in a time where the people that played this music on the records are still with us - they are leaving us in droves, and it's up to the younger folks like myself and younger to learn as much as we can while we can, since we didn't have the opportunities to play music when it was still "fresh" and easy to pick up 40-50 years ago. People are still playing today, but our connection to the sounds and concepts that made this music possible is getting dangerously close to being severed. It's important for young people today to understand what you and your peers didn't need to focus on back then because of how accessible the culture was at the time, still. Even if Bird, Trane, and Pops were gone, their band members were still around, and the echoes of the music they played were being carried on strongly. As time moves on, we have to make an even stronger effort to maintain that connection so we can stay true to the strides and risks people before us took in order to keep pushing the music forward into new places. Otherwise, it's not "the music" anymore, it's something else, which is cool, too, just not the same thing.
That's a good piece of advice, but let me ask this: how do you have enough time to be "good" enough though? To truly take up the mantle as a jazz musician would EASILY take the place of a full time job....I don't see how else you could really achieve it unless you were a genuine prodigy-like talent. I work a 9-5 in quite a well-paying job, but between that and having other commitments (not to mention commute time, having to cook food etc) I simply do not have enough hours in the day to practice/woodshed music enough to be a truly great player. Everyone has heard the legendary stories about how the likes of Parker literally practiced for 12 hours a day, and it showed. I just don't know how to find an avenue without dropping everything I do and just play as a monk-like worship.
You really do have to dedicate time to being a musician. It's hard to keep hundreds of tunes in memory, while at the same time getting enough facility on your instrument to free yourself from thinking about changes while improvising. And that's just the practicing side of things. Trying to make a living at it is a different thing altogether: you have to be a fantastic self-marketer, or you need to find a very steady professional gig, like a TV band, a major orchestra, or a teaching position at a university. It's certainly possible, but the level of effort required is extremely high.
Speaking of history, I had the privilege of seeing Sun Ra, in high school, and sitting next to Freddy Hubbard during a break at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco was able of asking him improvisation questions, I was blown away of the amount of cigarette he smoked!
I am 28yo and started 1 and half year ago to learn piano, started as classical but my goal was always jazz. I changed teachers recently to started digging into jazz. I've been playing transcriptions and I find it to be fine as part of the learning process. I don't feel confident yet to improvise but I know one day I will be there. Just practicing everyday and improve myself on my own time.
Man this is a good message, especially for someone around, say, 19-20 years old. You touched on it briefly but I'll amplify it here: jazz school is a BIG part of the problem. If you were hungry for music in the 50's, your only option was to learn from records and other musicians -- you can't avoid the history then!! But in the era of Berklee et al, these hedge funds masquerading as educational institutions make you a promise: give us ~4 years of life and potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars, and we'll sneak you to the front of the line. Who has ever really learned a deep lesson about playing jazz in a modal harmony class? Musicians' best memories from college are probably the sessions with their friends, not their school ensemble concerts. Of course, it's not 100% terrible. Maybe just 96%. I (and I'm guessing we, as your viewers) trust you, Patrick, more than jazz school professors -- the proof is in your ever-increasing engagement. So how do we put you on top? My optimistic vision: complete and total collapse of all jazz colleges/university programs. End the delusion. Replace the standard development with the kind of direct musician-musician engagement you bring up. If you're 18 and prodigiously talented, move to NYC, hire a private teacher or two (~1% of the cost of jazz school) and grind out a musical life -- be broke but take all those "learning experience" gigs. Your teachers will ultimately advocate for you and you will rise the ranks. If you're 18 but NOT prodigiously talented, but still dedicated, get a part-time day job and hire a private teacher and work hard until you have the skill to start taking the gigs you want. All your heroes are just people! In this future, all the WASTED money that flows through the dark channels of the gigantic institutions has a far better chance of sticking to the actual practitioners. Whatever you're making, Patrick, it should be more! Nor should it generally be so borderline impossible to survive on music without so many drastic compromises. Every musician has been humiliated by what they've had to do to scrape by at some point or another. Sad question: how many (jazz) musicians are economically thriving in NYC from exclusively performance opportunities (plus perhaps a private studio). That means no rich parent support. No barista day job. No shitty lesson agency that takes half your bread before you walk in the door. How many? 50? Hard to imagine a 3-digit number... We're all on the same team here. The community should be boosting signals like Patrick's (and the economic rewards should follow), and dampening the institutional rackets that suck money out of naive, moderately-talented wealthy children and dump it (inefficiently) into bureaucracy plus a frankly insultingly small amount of support to the actual practitioners. Go to the source!!
Bruh making the crossover from a classical degree (masters) to even thinking about dipping your toes into jazz, especially when you’ve been surrounded by it all your life but never really got trained in it, is absolutely brutal. Classical schools almost completely undercut a performer’s ability to not only improvise and thoroughly learn down standardized/colloquial tunes and progressions (or really just practically applied theory in general), but to even generate one’s own musical voice and ideas. It’s almost like you’re just shilling for the comp department at this point. Add to that the social/cultural divide between music industry trends and insular contemporary academic interests, and you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place trying to survive on your day job and carve out some career opportunities on the side. God willing, you even have the energy to properly and consistently dedicate some time to skill and idea cultivation after non-music work. It’s hard enough to strictly grind something out that’s musically interesting and economically sustainable ALONE, which usually leads to burnout if you don’t supplant it with something else or you get a lucky break. Can’t agree more lmao
Wow Wow Wow....you SAID it! Spot on. "End the delusion." I've been thinking about this for years after I got not one, but TWO jazz degrees (the Master's in 2000). I wasn't delusional about the fact that a degree was going to make me a good player. I knew I had to practice my ass off, make connections, etc.... Won't get into a personal history lesson, but I suppose I "made it" until I was about 30. I supported myself through playing gigs. I think about the past 20 years, the hundreds of schools and the countless "really good but not great" students to have graduated. I'm sure they were all told was I was told. "There is always room for good players.". So you're right. There are two people who MIGHT make it. The prodigiously talented who's skill cannot be denied if he or she wants to get on that stage and play, or the one who has the will to get there no matter what. Music degrees should be outlawed at this point. It's crime for a half-ass player who is now a department chair to be making $100k a year by lying to an 18 year old who's buying into the delusion he or she is presented. Or how about this...tuition should be based on earning potential of said degree? There's a concept. I'm grateful there are musicians out there like Patrick who are still succeeding enough to keep us listening. What he said is real talk. I admire the fact he said it with some optimism because it can get REAL DARK. There are so many great players out there both on and off the stage. Most have chosen it's just not worth it anymore.
Yea, I agree jazz schools are a big problem because how they teach music is completely detached from how people actually learned back then. There were no real books back then and you really have to rely on your ears to internalize the language and the history to really learn the music. I remember going to a clinic when I was a freshman in college, and I caught of glimpse of the guest artists complaining about what was happening during the clinic. I asked one of my teachers what was going on, and he let me in on the secret after the clinic was over. The guest artist(who is a very serious cat) was basically complaining about the fact that students were reading off the real book to play some easy standards. I actually had the chance to talk to the guest artist during the clinic, and he was really big into learning by ear, and how he learned to play an entire record's worth of music by ear without writing it down. I guess I was lucky to have met people who taught me just how much you need to internalize the music into your ears, but a lot of people can go through the entire college program completely oblivious to this simple fact.
@@nilesloughlin6845 Well said, I just wonder if all that you articulated here is not done by design anyway. Maybe the plan is to prevent creativity....it seems to be working.
I’m a young guy wanting to get into music and honestly it’s daunting, I’m told don’t get a performance degree and go for music education then gig on the side. But I’be gone to SO many master classes, and talks from great people like Christian McBride, or Wycliffe Gordon, and all they say is listen and transcribe. That’s it. Listen, no other way around it, but as a young guy it’s even scarier knowing that it’s not just listening to one thing but listening to thousands of hours of many different schools. But hey good video man, insightful as always!
It's no different to becoming a monk... if you're seriously aiming to perform jazz at that international level, I really think it's a religious-like vocation. Especially in this day and age.
I didn't want to be a teacher but it just seems smart....it has non limited my musical experiences with top player in my area...I am humbled often and blessed by my opportunities....even if I am not a full on only gigging musician. But remember....teaching music still is part of a career in Music. Peace man!
This man speaks the truth. After 22 years as a performer, learn as much as you can while you're young and rent isn't due lmao! Thanks for being a great, honest educator! You da man!
Recently I read a book called Live at the Cellar where it mentions the co-operative Jazz scene in Canada. Jazz musicians not having the opportunities to hone their craft and play to the public created their own spaces/clubs amongst themselves. They created their own opportunities with a "build it and they will come" outlook. I think we need something like that today.
After watching your video this morning, I had a tech exam and my teacher was talking to me about exactly what you are saying. It’s so true. As I’ve developed as a jazz musician, I’ve started to really dig into the wide range of genres, especially trad, bebop and swing. Thank you so much 🙏🏻
Thank you again Patrick. We are so lucky to have you, a brilliant musician, sharing your knowledge as a brilliant historian. I’m a white woman who grew up and was educated in the deep, segregated south. The Ken Burns series was life changing for me and were I in my teens it would likely have inspired me to follow the jazz piano route. I’m a piano teacher and this jazz exposure has caused me to completely change my teaching method. I could go on but Thank You Patrick. ♥️
I recently took a jazz appreciation course and it was one of the best classes I took. From Fats to McLoughlin and everything in between, there's something to learn from each era and their biggest figures. I really don't know where jazz is heading now, because I always listen to swing, bebop, and cool jazz. I can still appreciate what people do with genres like world music or when groups get super experimental with it. The spirit of jazz is still alive, but I think more folks should go back like you say, to inspire new directions in jazz. Thanks for this insight 🤙🏽
LOVE the fact that you speak purely the truth about music and jazz, this real talk is uncommon on social media these days! Would love to see more of this Pat! On my way to find George Coleman and Benny Golson right now lol
I'm really glad that this was addressed. Everything has a context, everything has a history. It's imperative that this historical material is internalized.
Lots of great stuff! Personally, I’m not a fan of the overwhelming push and scolding for not having listened to specific musicians or specific albums to quantify knowing the history of music. I have always taught students “take care of the music and the rest will follow,” encouraging them to always want to inspire and to always be inspired by music. If they are being true to the music, they will learn the history of the freedom it represents regardless of genre, musicians, or recordings from any decade they have listened to. Certainly the more history you are aware of, the more informed you are; but knowing or not knowing all of that specific history doesn’t mean you can’t still “hang.” It more comes down to being fluent and able to listen and adapt to how different people speak their own music language.
That's either perceived or being pedalled by pretentious "gatekeepers". I don't give a SHIT if you know every recording under the sun or literally only like one Charlie Parker tune....if you like the music that's all that matters. Discover it at your own pace. Much like playing, listening to music isn't a competiton. But I get what Patrick is saying here, he's specifically talking about guys that are shooting for the moon in terms of their musical aspirations.
Love all this. Jazz and Music is a daunting hill to climb! You have to keep learning. I also want to point out... beginners get overwhelmed quickly! Its ok to talk to beginners about ii-V-I's as a vehicle to surviving a solo. Now more than ever we need young jazz musicians onstage trying out old and new ideas. We need new audiences too. I guess Id rather a young kid get onstage and make things happen with the best knowledge they have rather than NOT be onstage burdened by the past greats. We need players! I guess I'm arguing for all us adults to let the kids be stupid and naive for a minute. They'll grow up.
16:53 TRUTH! no one else is saying this stuff this why you're the realest. It's both eye opening and humbling hearing you speak, you're like the modern day muse of jazz. I'm 15 years old and play the alto, I love the music and I love its history. I dream to one day get good enough to gig and meet and play with musicians that are hip to the history and share the same passion for jazz that I do. I feel like I'd be doing myself a disservice, or missing out on some exciting new music being made every day, if I pursued any other career. I really do know deep inside that jazz is my calling but man its like fighting against all the odds to go the music path full time. I'm so grateful that I have the support and the financial background from my parents to even do music as a hobby in the first place. I might just study for a more "realistic" degree and try for a stable income day job just to have the ability to play music on the side while living comfortably. Its been a dream of mine to go to music school, if only to be able to meet and interact with like-minded people. i guess i'll see where life takes me. i'm pretty young i've got a lot of time to think about it so imma just keep at it and shed some transcriptions, listen to the greats. Thanks for your honesty in this video man you're an inspiration.
Heyo! I for one totally prefer longer videos like this one. Would love to see a "Real Talk" series with this kind of time length. Thanks for the knowledge drop! :)
You know in my jazz circle in college, I have always been told that in order to play with real jazz musicians, you have to know bebop. While I still study and play bebop, I have also begun to understand that it should not be the only thing to learn. There are so many jazz genres out there and there are many genres outside of jazz. I study classical music, not because I want to make a performance career on it, but because I want to apply that language into the music that I play with others. I myself like video game music, because I like the melodic content in it, just I like I do in other genres of music, jazz, classical, whatever. I think of music as a collective and not something is sectioned off into separate rooms, even though physically it might seem that way to people, which is sad.
Thank you for this. As someone going through the jazz-education route in college and am only a few years into my jazz journey. I feel that almost no one has been able to be honest to this level. Maybe 1 guy to some extent but I wasn’t ready to hear it. Yes it seems daunting, but brutal honesty is the only way I’ve ever grown. The path forward seems a little bit more clear!
Music school generally - and since forver - has been a "pull the wool over the eyes" (of the student) exercise. They NEVER tell the student his/her real chances. The same goes for classical violinists and oboists and pianists. GOOD NEWS? Go for the advanced degree and you probably can teach. That's where the Ron Carters and the Marcus Roberts and the Gary Peacocks end up ANYWAY. (Tired of the road? TEACH!) Would a Lyle Mays, Pat Metheny, Joe Zawinul, Chick Corea path be open today??? Good question. Possible not.
@@zdogg8 I can see a bit of the “wool over your eyes” thing finally too after being in it for a few years. The good news is I’d love to be able to teach! I think I’ve tried learning to enjoy just being part of the process. Having a devotion to something I love has given me a focus and discipline, and if that’s all I get out of then It’s still changed my life for the better! It doesn’t seem like being a star is much of a thing anymore from what I’ve read too
@@user-qe2ow7qz1r RIGHT! It's (teaching) not a capitulation. Most music lovers' most intense relationship with music will be the local church/school choir or school jazz orchestra and so forth. A better musically educated world is ESSENTIAL the the re-emergence of any sort of jazz/music revival.
Maaan, just stressed thinking about it aha! There's a lot of music to learn but also appreciate. 70 years from now we'll have no direct connection to the OGs and so it's important now to know the music purely how it was presented originally and to seek the masters out. Also can't forget the heritage of Black American music. It's like we don't know how lucky we are to still be able to go hear the masters live. Kind of like watching Lebron, Jordan or Kobe in person. Also nobody does the sky hook anymore or a granny freethrow lmaoo but I do appreciate those players who were great at it.
If you play tenor, make sure you study Lester Young, Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins, Frankie Trumbauer, Wardell Gray, and cats after them like Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Michael Brecker, Bob Berg, Joshua Redman, Chris Potter, etc. Get all of it and find the connections! Have fun!
"You gotta dig into the history:" I literally had this discussion the other day on an art forum, explaining that while you may not need to study art history in order to paint, that it does make a difference understanding where certain concepts come from. Some artists, were like , not necessary, and others were like, must revere the masters. And while reverence may not be necessary, knowing of the history is certainly a benefit, in my opinion, because it explains some of the reasons for why we do what we do.
Jazz is beautiful and for the connoisseur of history and tradition. I was raised on it and studied it in my early years. I play it quite often and live with it. I am not a touring musician but I am a musician and appreciate jazz 100 percent . Ken Burns Jazz is the road map history of where it comes from
The thought about the "one size fits all" hit extra hard, because a lot of time that approach told me my instrument isn't allowed in jazz. The one size fits all tells me I should switch to trumpet or trombone "just to be safe" which is...well that sums it up doesn't it? Play these 2-5s, "just to be safe." I'm a french horn player, and developing as a jazz player has been difficult because I'm kind of lumped into the "misc instrument trying their best" category. But I'm still learning the history and working to improve. I like your videos. Very genuine and sincere. Thank you!
@@kennethreed8746 ...I do learn those. I do put in the work. Did you actually watch the video? I was referring to the part where he said that some people treat that as the end game, rather than learning the history. And that was the parallel I was drawing. "Don't bother learning the history, just learn these 2-5 licks to be safe."
French horn definitely is a hard road to travel professionally. Julius Watkins carved out a niche, and Gunther Schuller played on the Birth of the Cool records. Put yourself out there: people always want something different. I like Clark Terry's _Color_ _Changes_ album; check it out if you haven't already.
@@TheJohnStacy I had just started the video and I commented before he said that, but I still stand by what I said in general just because of how much versatility you could apply to the ii-Vs. I think he just meant the idea of copying licks in general.
Great video! It's been intersting to me that after I started transcribing some bird licks that I started to hear them pop up in other players from time to time. And that made it click for me that it's all connected and part of a larger language. It's like a big puzzle and taking the time to follow the lineage and study by listeing deeply and transcribing unlocks a whole new dimension to the music. It's interesting to see how the different styles have influence the popular musics of the day too, like stride and boogie woogie being the base for rock and roll. As a tuba player I've always felt limited in what I can do, but I read this great article that explaines how tuba was the original low end before being replaced by double bass, and it has a bunch of great examples of tuba players throughout the history, and the current players like Theon Cross who are continuing to push the instrument. It feels great to know that if I dedicate myself to studying the music that I can be a part of that lineage and tradition as well.
Beautiful message. How do we grow? With roots. Thank you, Patrick, for eloquently explaining that being steeped in the roots, the evolution of all jazz styles, and having a comprehensive, undiscriminating view of the music (and musicians) is key. Loved the analogy of thinking of the history as an interesting story. Too many players get caught up in the destination, or alternatively in any one narrow pocket of Jazz, at the neglect of the parallels outside. Having a focus or specializing is good, but ultimately, getting hip to the early or "older" sounds tends to inform and enhance the appreciation and scope of the new. Meaning arises through contrast. Also, getting in tune with speaking to people through playing, being sensitive to an audience, is crucial for most any musician. The magic you allude to is essential too. It's why young students can feel the transporting excitement of a Dizzy Gillespie solo, or a hot Fletcher Henderson or Noble Sissle Orchestra recording from the early 1930's, or Cannonball v Coltrane on Limehouse Blues, or Roy Eldridge with Gene Krupa on After You've Gone...It's the same vibrant spirit and it should indeed be joyful and fun to dig into it. Finding the commonality across eras is more insightful than reacting to the difference.
Came across Patrick, for the first, while following Japanese bassist Juna Serita and then Dom Polambi's Game Nite. So glad I did. now it brings me here. Really enjoy his take on modern jazz. He does live what he is "preaching". Who'da thought serious musicians would be bringing their own flavor to 'Sonic the Hedgehog' and 'Hey Arnold' soundtrack covers. I'm 70, but I enjoyed playing and watching with my, now 30 year old, son. I have got to say, when the "Game Nite" crew get cooking; man , my eyes start to well up; it is so good.
Patrick, this video means a lot to me on my journey through music and jazz in particular. Finding your way through how to express yourself using a language, that at this point as you say is vast and nuanced beyond realistic comprehension, can be very difficult and unintuitive especially if you don't grow up around the music or if where you live lacks a jazz scene. Videos like yours help put things in perspective for the musical youth and that effect is magnified by your virtuosity and musicality. I am constantly amazed by all the shows from Emmet's Place and this video has also reinforced my blossoming love for the history and mythos of the genre. I do want to be great! Thank you!
I came here to learn how to be a basic Jazz musician and this man gives me an entire understanding of what it means to be good, not just at jazz or music, but just being overall. God bless.
Mr Bartley, keep talking and "rambling" its very valuable. Please continue these talks, its very important, particularly now...jazz is endangered. Very well said and lots of valuable advice. Would be nice for you to continue this conversation...please I wanna hear more advice. I will always keep practicing...
Another important aspect of study is to learn about all the genius women, particularly instrumentalists, who were written out of jazz history and remain largely unmentioned in jazz schools today.
@@lixinevela listen to albums, subscribe to ig accounts or channels that discuss women in jazz, watch jazz documentaries, buy vinyl and read liner notes, go to shows where women are leading the band, listen to interviews featuring women musicians, etc. :)
I am watching this because of the topic. And me being 77 and having had a very rewarding career in this music (and continuing to do so) am interested in where things are now for the players in your generation and the generation you are now addressing. Plus i just love hanging and listening to other players!!
I think about why it is I create. I feel like the people coming up in this music had a strong reason why. There is “just having fun”, which is fine.. this music can be fun to play.. the world needs fun and joy. But there has always been more of a why than that. I believe being in touch with that is part of what it takes🐬
So greatful for your advice because I do be feeling this way but no one is here to talk about these things. You are a great mentor! I feel so lost often times because I'm trying to understand why I'm not able to do certain things but the more I watch your videos the more I feel I'm able to get to where I need to be. Thanks 👍
Hoping this is where we should post questions and suggestions for topics. Teacher perspective. What got you started? What inspired and motivated you? Did you have to be told to practice and did that work? Do you have beginner students/what do you have students start on? TIA. You are a wonderful human being. ♥️
Hey, I was always very passionate about Jazz but your essay actually shows me how limited my horizon was. I want to try to deep dive into the history and therefore i want to ask fellow musicians for advice whose recordings i should get into first. It's just kind of hart to make the first step for me because of the extrem information overload but I feel like trying to deep dive into it might make things clear for me whether I want to pursue the music passion more or if it stays more something of a hobby. Thanks in advance! Great Video btw. I really enjoyed your talk
I was taught in jazz about last year, and since then I’ve been just messing with it. You know, getting to know history, and listening to different styles. And getting the feelings of that sound. And after all of it, I think I’m beginning to get it, especially in Piano. I know you do sax a lot, but it still applies somewhat to it, with making rhythms. Just we pianists have 88 keys, and have to be bouncing chords alongside the main improv sounds, on most occasions. Still, I agree with a lot of what’s being said, even now past 2022. Have no idea how well this impacts!
Thank you man. My love for the music is my love for what I’ve learned about the people who made it. They are my second family. M talking like this about it is how we make it mean something.
The "new thing" of the early 40s called Be-Bop turned most of the potential audience off. Nobody could dance to it and the people voted with their feet. Clubs were loath to book most be-bop combos as they needed an audience to stick around all night and spend their cash. Similarly with the "free jazz" starting in the early 60s - tiny audiences no matter how "artistic" the players considered themselves. To get by as a full-time jazzer - you'e spot on, Mr B:)
I studied a second language in college and had started this new journey at 18 years old. I started sax at 21 . That was 20 years ago. One thing I think overlooked in education is that youth will get it if dedicated. But starting late in life even in linguistic studies, if you begin a language after certain ages you’ll carry an accent. I’ve been on a new pro horn practice 3 hours a day for months and I feel it barely moves the needle… Moral of story is you can tell who started in youth. Brains adapt quickly in that youthful state.
Patrick, an absolute truth that any musician needs to hear and absorb. As a 78 year old musician who fell in love with music in high school, one has to study, understand the history of music going back to the beginning in Africa, Asia, Europe up to the present time. Plus, for me, I had to go back and understand the logic of the guitar. Why is it tuned in fourths and a third. And, to listen to as much live music and recordings as possible. I was fortunate to have heard Wes, Miles, Art Blakey, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Jimmy Smith, Groove Holmes, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Dexter etc., live numerous times and couldn’t believe what I was hearing. By living” the music it became a part of me so I could play from the spirit and soul without thinking about scales, chords etc. And, with doing all of the above and working a day gig, I became a good musician. I admire and marvel at the level of musicianship you have obtained. It is truly incredible and took thousands of hours of dedication, very hard work and sacrifice. Wes gave me some advice a couple of months before his untimely death in 1968. “Play with a clear mind, keep your music fresh and never play a song the same way twice.”
Btw I release a fusion ep last year called Fusion Underclass by the Mike Edmonds Quintet . It’s ok , demos to some extent because I played the piano - keyboards as well as bass . Couldn’t afford a pianist but it’s all a work in progress . I was a teenager in the 1980s and every Weather report release was a big thing . Really enjoyed your talk
I've always felt that my music was much more enriched from having watched documentaries and listened to/read interviews with cats, but I couldn't put my finger on it or explain it as precisely. I dig it man
Yes!! I Love this real talk. Thank you!! (Future Topic?) What about those students/enthusiasts that are struggling and think that the reason their development is not crystallizing is simply because they just don't have "it." How does dedication, work ethic and self-determination play a role in the journey to competency, some might think the reason "You" are where you are is because you where blessed with the talent and "I" just don't have it.
This was amazing, motivating, inspiring even. The child transcribing their parents analogy is one that I use a lot…. But it doesn’t matter who uses it… it’s universally true in a way that everyone can understand. Great video.
Yes! Absolutely appreciate what you said. As someone who has spent a long time in music school, the “one size fits all” approach is frustrating and to be honest a bit depressing. The “implant into your solo this one line” method makes me sick. I’m also a fan of your music, I stubbled to the video and I’m glad. Thank you sir!
Thank you for this I appreciated your talk. I am an amateur long time beginner jazz musician, its a hobby for me. I would not be good enough to play for a living. The competition is extreme I would think just from seeing younger people play. Also, jazz is not as popular as I would like it to be.
I heard a story once that some one asked a famous jazz musician what kind of music he played, he just replied, “I play western music.” I love that answer, because as a jazz player, we do mostly follow a 12 tone system, which in historically pretty accurate. We don’t, in the west play too many micro, semi tones, maybe some vocalists, Betty Carter and other instrumentalist ‘play around with’ other tonal scales, we all play a 12 tone system aka “western music.” So when people ask what kind of music I play, I respond “I pretty much play western music.”
Love this. It's much more beneficial to look at the entirety of music and find the beautiful parts than to shut out the beautiful parts because there are elements you don't like (or worse yet: that OTHER people don't like). If we do this we are guided by our instincts instead of what people around us are saying. I think people talk about Louis Armstrong as "old" simply because somebody else told them to think that way. I feel the same way about relationships with other humans.
When I started, at the 90s internet wasn't around, I had a book, and 2-3 tapes. I really liked Coltrane, so I started to try copy him from those tapes I had to realize, I had to go back, and listen / learn what he has listened/learnt but there again what those cats .. and the previous ones and before them, this is how it goes. Jelly Roll, Muggsy Sp. etc
1) Did indeed watch to the end. 2) Just finished the Ken Burns Jazz Dco (saw the recommendation on Discord), can confirm it to be a fantastic place to start. 3) I'm kinda thankful that I have no wish to be a professional jazz musician (who knows, if life throws me that way, so be it; but here and now, I have no drive to make jazz my career), I'm honestly much happier as a hobbiest... That said HOWEVER, the music I want to play is jazz, and if all the history is as interesting as the stuff in the Ken Burns Doc, then by jingo I'm going to dig till I can dig no more -- though at the same time, I doubt I'll reach out to many of the legends... I mean, I'm just a hobiest, no some hip upcoming musician to carry a legacy forward. That said, this vid has definitely given me both something to think about, and a bit of hope that I'm not going in the wrong direction. Up until now I was threating about needing to learn all the theory and the constriction of x, y, and z... and though I'm sure all of that is important, it's also nice to know that I'm not 100% on the wrong track through learning via transcribing the music I love to listen too. Side note: I really need to try and stop by the discord VC more often. Can confirm that one can learn a lot from it! (Even if I'm usually to shy to join in the voice convo myself... or at work 😅)
20:08 The best gem for me out of this video- I try to convince myself of as much following the same logic you outlined, but hearing someone like yourself state it really gives it validity. ☺
I've been playing jazz for a while now, and I have learnt a lot of stuff about jazz on stage and through film (youtube) and I LOVE JAZZ. This video is one of the best I have ever seen....very inspiring....thanks very much.
What's up ~~ Patrick, really pleasure~~ actually I've heard you from my professor~~ he recommended you really happy to know you again ~ I’ve been playing the sax for 4 years. i think that the sax play is very very tough ~ but I really love sax ^^ ! thanks for sharing your knowledge
So this is the third time I am watching and listening to this. It is so ironic, that this is about Jazz, and the way Mr Bartley presented this is exactly how Jazz happens. I predict that this talk will be seen and spoken about for years to come.
Thank you for your insights and all the energy and time you put into these videos. Truly inspirational and much appreciated. Looking forward to all the upcoming content! You are a true teacher.
Charlie Parker didn’t have UA-cam but in those days I think there were at lot more gigs and places to hear and play . He joined bands and practiced . Joe Temperly , used to watch his Jazz Apple TV show which was excellent . Saw Connie Kay , Peter Washington , Milt Hinton and Jimmy Heath on tv thanks to that show . Arvil Shaw too . Was he playing with Jay McShane ? Great tv program .
That Emmett Cohen performance was fucking mental. Damn, you make a good point about either knowing it all, or finding your one thing. But if you only have one thing, you better hope there's an audience for that thing.
You have to look back before you can go forward, that's why I love studying Bach, just take a look at his Allemande from the French suite in E flat major and your find that his skill at joining chord arpeggios together that twist and turn all over your instrument are second to none, you will find dominant sevenths minor sevenths major sevenths diminished and augmented chords just to name a few and what's even more amazing is that he was doing all this more than three hundred years ago, it's like he was improvising and composing on the spot, but because recording equipment had not been invented he had to write everything down and score it out so he knew he could remember all his creative ideas. P.S All I can say is lucky for all us music making monsters that he did, especially Jazz musicians.
Hey Pat, incredible video yet again! I would love to hear you talking about how you brought all your knowledge from jazz and applied it to videogame music. Also, following the topic of your video, I was extremely curious if you also learned about videogame music history. Finally, id also love if you could point us to some jazz albuns! Most people just say the same 10 musicians, but on this video you mentioned some I didn't knew, so I'd love to know more! Thanks!
Yes, listen to all music. Not just your favorite jazz style. Listen to classical, Asian, Latin, all pop music styles etc.. and with an analytical ear, not in the background while you are doing other things. Very few musicians actually make a living playing music, let alone only playing in the style that you prefer. I have played for a living because I have played and learned ever style of music from classical, Latin, Broadway, all jazz styles from trad to post bop. As a trombone player I learned that even the masters did this like Carl Fontana playing in Vegas shows and in the Symphony! Of course I have my favorites, but all my playing experiences influence my style of jazz.
I appreciate what is being communicated, because so many people that play a musical instrument have misconceptions on what it really takes to make a living let alone a life playing music of any kind, let alone playing jazz. Jazz and classical music, are both passionately loved and appreciated but by a much smaller group than popular music. It would be much easier for a musician to earn money playing songs that the masses want to hear. ( rock, country, pop. soul, rap, dance etc) than to earn money playing jazz. To do that you. should be able to sound as good as the people on the recordings of what ever kind of music your playing, which takes some serious work, then learn all about marketing yourself, which is an entirely different conversation. One of the things Patrick mentioned that I really appreciated, is talking about the importance of being able to be extremely disciplined and compliant to be able to fit in certain situations, (left brain logical, responsible, mature adult etc ) and at the same time be able to let it all out, having your emotions connect with the playing of your instrument (right brain spiritual, carefree, magical) Wish you all well
Bart, I'm 74. I lived within Jazz history, I hung out with Ornette, heard Trane many times. YOU are correct, jazz is a task master. You need Intelligence, Ear, Muscle Memory, encyclopedic erudition, and to know every genre that ever existed. Coltrane enabled us to approach music as a priesthood or shamanic process. IMHO that's what the calling is. It is not a religion. It's a discipline with spiritual aspects. Well spoken, amigo. What a wonderful essay.
This is one of the most inspiring UA-cam comments I've ever read! ❤
Thank you for existing
Went to college for music, always had a hard time "really" playing jazz. I learned all the theory I possibly could and tried my best to apply it and it always felt like a cheap imitation of what I wanted to play. The Charlie Parker "forget all that shit and play" moment never came, until I started transcribing *everything*. Metal riffs, solos, pop music, video game tunes, chord changes from electronic music, bossa, film music. Going back to jazz is like speaking and knowing the ancient language that all this later music came from. That's not to say jazz is the be-all end-all music (though it really can feel like it), but the emphasis on deep harmony, deep rhythm, deep listening and improvisation reveals a lot about how musical ideas are constructed and developed, and that translates to anything else you listen to. On top of that, you need understand all these complex subjects on a sub-conscious level so that you can even play the damn songs correctly!
I don't know what it takes to be a professional jazz musician in 2022. Some kind of hustle, extraversion and popularity I just can't seem to conjure up. But I feel like you're talking about something deeper here, which is what it means to call yourself a Jazz Musician, period. It's a lot more than playing some 7th chords over a lofi beat. It's more than memes about the Lick and Giant Steps. It's a practice that gives you tools to comprehend every kind of musical idea, and the instinct to absorb them and make them a part of your own musical language.
Fantastic real talk.
Superb introspection. It all gets down to the musician and his instrument, which goes beyond the funnel of knowledge poured in as per the ingredients in a cake baking exercise. Mix in a bowl, pop in the oven and POOF, and hour later a JAZZ musician comes out. Doesn't work that way. However, if one were to join a blues band.......
Play some blues and forget about theory 🙌🏼
During the lockdown, I think I listened to nearly 4,000 Jazz recordings all the way from 1950 up to today! All versions and offshoots of Jazz, I listened to it. From Cuba, USA, Brazil, Europe, Africa.... I'm so glad I did 👌🏿
Been studying Jazz history for quite a while; Reggae, Blues, Soul-R&B, Funk, you name it, I study the history.
I'm a Bass Player. Anthony Jackson is my favorite Electric Bass player of all time 😎
Greetings from Uganda 🇺🇬👊🏿🖤
That is dope man! any chance you kept a list of what you did? Would love to try this out.
The word "know" has a different meaning to jazz musicians than in ordinary speech. "Knowing" a song means knowing the melody, chord changes, famous recordings, drum parts, piano parts, bass lines, etc. _from_ _memory_ . You can't fake your way around it. You have to go back to the records and really dig in. What was George Morrow doing on "Cherokee"? How about Louis Hayes on "Unit 7"? You're never going to learn it all, so you have to pick your spots: the recordings you love, plus the music that people _pay_ you to play. Sometimes that part is rough: you don't like "Satin Doll?" Well... someone _else_ does, so it's on you to play it to the best of your ability.
This last part really holds true in any profession: you're going to really dislike bits of it, or at least find it tedious. My old roommate said: "Well, that's why they call it work."
always know
I've been playing music for 20yrs as a professional saxophonist in south TX. I am 42 years old....NOT as skilled as you or many other younger cats, but I work often...because....I TRY TO PLAY EVERYTHING. IN OTHER WORDS....PLAY WHAT THE MUSIC TELLS YOU!!
Pop...blues...bebop...free...funk...soul...latin...salsa... Afro-Cuban... Classical. All. Thanks man you are an amazing musician!
I’ve been playing for 50 years. I’ve found that the best way to be successful in music is to have a really good day job. I make some money playing sax but it was never enough to support my family.
For sure, that's always the most reliable route everyone needs to be aware of! And thank you for your time spent playing this music!
The unfortunate reality in 2022 is that we are no longer in a time where the people that played this music on the records are still with us - they are leaving us in droves, and it's up to the younger folks like myself and younger to learn as much as we can while we can, since we didn't have the opportunities to play music when it was still "fresh" and easy to pick up 40-50 years ago. People are still playing today, but our connection to the sounds and concepts that made this music possible is getting dangerously close to being severed. It's important for young people today to understand what you and your peers didn't need to focus on back then because of how accessible the culture was at the time, still. Even if Bird, Trane, and Pops were gone, their band members were still around, and the echoes of the music they played were being carried on strongly. As time moves on, we have to make an even stronger effort to maintain that connection so we can stay true to the strides and risks people before us took in order to keep pushing the music forward into new places. Otherwise, it's not "the music" anymore, it's something else, which is cool, too, just not the same thing.
Nicely put!
That's a good piece of advice, but let me ask this: how do you have enough time to be "good" enough though? To truly take up the mantle as a jazz musician would EASILY take the place of a full time job....I don't see how else you could really achieve it unless you were a genuine prodigy-like talent. I work a 9-5 in quite a well-paying job, but between that and having other commitments (not to mention commute time, having to cook food etc) I simply do not have enough hours in the day to practice/woodshed music enough to be a truly great player.
Everyone has heard the legendary stories about how the likes of Parker literally practiced for 12 hours a day, and it showed. I just don't know how to find an avenue without dropping everything I do and just play as a monk-like worship.
You really do have to dedicate time to being a musician. It's hard to keep hundreds of tunes in memory, while at the same time getting enough facility on your instrument to free yourself from thinking about changes while improvising. And that's just the practicing side of things. Trying to make a living at it is a different thing altogether: you have to be a fantastic self-marketer, or you need to find a very steady professional gig, like a TV band, a major orchestra, or a teaching position at a university. It's certainly possible, but the level of effort required is extremely high.
@@xxczerxx I don’t like jazz that much.
Speaking of history, I had the privilege of seeing Sun Ra, in high school, and sitting next to Freddy Hubbard during a break at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco was able of asking him improvisation questions, I was blown away of the amount of cigarette he smoked!
I am 28yo and started 1 and half year ago to learn piano, started as classical but my goal was always jazz. I changed teachers recently to started digging into jazz. I've been playing transcriptions and I find it to be fine as part of the learning process. I don't feel confident yet to improvise but I know one day I will be there. Just practicing everyday and improve myself on my own time.
Man this is a good message, especially for someone around, say, 19-20 years old. You touched on it briefly but I'll amplify it here: jazz school is a BIG part of the problem. If you were hungry for music in the 50's, your only option was to learn from records and other musicians -- you can't avoid the history then!! But in the era of Berklee et al, these hedge funds masquerading as educational institutions make you a promise: give us ~4 years of life and potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars, and we'll sneak you to the front of the line. Who has ever really learned a deep lesson about playing jazz in a modal harmony class? Musicians' best memories from college are probably the sessions with their friends, not their school ensemble concerts. Of course, it's not 100% terrible. Maybe just 96%. I (and I'm guessing we, as your viewers) trust you, Patrick, more than jazz school professors -- the proof is in your ever-increasing engagement. So how do we put you on top?
My optimistic vision: complete and total collapse of all jazz colleges/university programs. End the delusion. Replace the standard development with the kind of direct musician-musician engagement you bring up. If you're 18 and prodigiously talented, move to NYC, hire a private teacher or two (~1% of the cost of jazz school) and grind out a musical life -- be broke but take all those "learning experience" gigs. Your teachers will ultimately advocate for you and you will rise the ranks. If you're 18 but NOT prodigiously talented, but still dedicated, get a part-time day job and hire a private teacher and work hard until you have the skill to start taking the gigs you want. All your heroes are just people!
In this future, all the WASTED money that flows through the dark channels of the gigantic institutions has a far better chance of sticking to the actual practitioners. Whatever you're making, Patrick, it should be more! Nor should it generally be so borderline impossible to survive on music without so many drastic compromises. Every musician has been humiliated by what they've had to do to scrape by at some point or another.
Sad question: how many (jazz) musicians are economically thriving in NYC from exclusively performance opportunities (plus perhaps a private studio). That means no rich parent support. No barista day job. No shitty lesson agency that takes half your bread before you walk in the door. How many? 50? Hard to imagine a 3-digit number...
We're all on the same team here. The community should be boosting signals like Patrick's (and the economic rewards should follow), and dampening the institutional rackets that suck money out of naive, moderately-talented wealthy children and dump it (inefficiently) into bureaucracy plus a frankly insultingly small amount of support to the actual practitioners. Go to the source!!
But what about the piece of paper taking the blame away from oneself-if you’re subpar-that industries (jazz bands) look for?
Bruh making the crossover from a classical degree (masters) to even thinking about dipping your toes into jazz, especially when you’ve been surrounded by it all your life but never really got trained in it, is absolutely brutal.
Classical schools almost completely undercut a performer’s ability to not only improvise and thoroughly learn down standardized/colloquial tunes and progressions (or really just practically applied theory in general), but to even generate one’s own musical voice and ideas. It’s almost like you’re just shilling for the comp department at this point.
Add to that the social/cultural divide between music industry trends and insular contemporary academic interests, and you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place trying to survive on your day job and carve out some career opportunities on the side. God willing, you even have the energy to properly and consistently dedicate some time to skill and idea cultivation after non-music work. It’s hard enough to strictly grind something out that’s musically interesting and economically sustainable ALONE, which usually leads to burnout if you don’t supplant it with something else or you get a lucky break.
Can’t agree more lmao
Wow Wow Wow....you SAID it! Spot on. "End the delusion." I've been thinking about this for years after I got not one, but TWO jazz degrees (the Master's in 2000). I wasn't delusional about the fact that a degree was going to make me a good player. I knew I had to practice my ass off, make connections, etc.... Won't get into a personal history lesson, but I suppose I "made it" until I was about 30. I supported myself through playing gigs. I think about the past 20 years, the hundreds of schools and the countless "really good but not great" students to have graduated. I'm sure they were all told was I was told. "There is always room for good players.".
So you're right. There are two people who MIGHT make it. The prodigiously talented who's skill cannot be denied if he or she wants to get on that stage and play, or the one who has the will to get there no matter what. Music degrees should be outlawed at this point. It's crime for a half-ass player who is now a department chair to be making $100k a year by lying to an 18 year old who's buying into the delusion he or she is presented. Or how about this...tuition should be based on earning potential of said degree? There's a concept.
I'm grateful there are musicians out there like Patrick who are still succeeding enough to keep us listening. What he said is real talk. I admire the fact he said it with some optimism because it can get REAL DARK. There are so many great players out there both on and off the stage. Most have chosen it's just not worth it anymore.
Yea, I agree jazz schools are a big problem because how they teach music is completely detached from how people actually learned back then. There were no real books back then and you really have to rely on your ears to internalize the language and the history to really learn the music.
I remember going to a clinic when I was a freshman in college, and I caught of glimpse of the guest artists complaining about what was happening during the clinic. I asked one of my teachers what was going on, and he let me in on the secret after the clinic was over. The guest artist(who is a very serious cat) was basically complaining about the fact that students were reading off the real book to play some easy standards. I actually had the chance to talk to the guest artist during the clinic, and he was really big into learning by ear, and how he learned to play an entire record's worth of music by ear without writing it down.
I guess I was lucky to have met people who taught me just how much you need to internalize the music into your ears, but a lot of people can go through the entire college program completely oblivious to this simple fact.
@@nilesloughlin6845 Well said, I just wonder if all that you articulated here is not done by design anyway. Maybe the plan is to prevent creativity....it seems to be working.
I’m a young guy wanting to get into music and honestly it’s daunting, I’m told don’t get a performance degree and go for music education then gig on the side. But I’be gone to SO many master classes, and talks from great people like Christian McBride, or Wycliffe Gordon, and all they say is listen and transcribe. That’s it. Listen, no other way around it, but as a young guy it’s even scarier knowing that it’s not just listening to one thing but listening to thousands of hours of many different schools. But hey good video man, insightful as always!
It's no different to becoming a monk... if you're seriously aiming to perform jazz at that international level, I really think it's a religious-like vocation. Especially in this day and age.
I didn't want to be a teacher but it just seems smart....it has non limited my musical experiences with top player in my area...I am humbled often and blessed by my opportunities....even if I am not a full on only gigging musician. But remember....teaching music still is part of a career in Music. Peace man!
This man speaks the truth. After 22 years as a performer, learn as much as you can while you're young and rent isn't due lmao! Thanks for being a great, honest educator! You da man!
Recently I read a book called Live at the Cellar where it mentions the co-operative Jazz scene in Canada. Jazz musicians not having the opportunities to hone their craft and play to the public created their own spaces/clubs amongst themselves. They created their own opportunities with a "build it and they will come" outlook. I think we need something like that today.
After watching your video this morning, I had a tech exam and my teacher was talking to me about exactly what you are saying. It’s so true. As I’ve developed as a jazz musician, I’ve started to really dig into the wide range of genres, especially trad, bebop and swing. Thank you so much 🙏🏻
Thank you again Patrick. We are so lucky to have you, a brilliant musician, sharing your knowledge as a brilliant historian.
I’m a white woman who grew up and was educated in the deep, segregated south. The Ken Burns series was life changing for me and were I in my teens it would likely have inspired me to follow the jazz piano route. I’m a piano teacher and this jazz exposure has caused me to completely change my teaching method. I could go on but Thank You Patrick. ♥️
I recently took a jazz appreciation course and it was one of the best classes I took. From Fats to McLoughlin and everything in between, there's something to learn from each era and their biggest figures. I really don't know where jazz is heading now, because I always listen to swing, bebop, and cool jazz. I can still appreciate what people do with genres like world music or when groups get super experimental with it. The spirit of jazz is still alive, but I think more folks should go back like you say, to inspire new directions in jazz. Thanks for this insight 🤙🏽
LOVE the fact that you speak purely the truth about music and jazz, this real talk is uncommon on social media these days! Would love to see more of this Pat! On my way to find George Coleman and Benny Golson right now lol
I'm really glad that this was addressed. Everything has a context, everything has a history. It's imperative that this historical material is internalized.
Lots of great stuff! Personally, I’m not a fan of the overwhelming push and scolding for not having listened to specific musicians or specific albums to quantify knowing the history of music. I have always taught students “take care of the music and the rest will follow,” encouraging them to always want to inspire and to always be inspired by music. If they are being true to the music, they will learn the history of the freedom it represents regardless of genre, musicians, or recordings from any decade they have listened to. Certainly the more history you are aware of, the more informed you are; but knowing or not knowing all of that specific history doesn’t mean you can’t still “hang.” It more comes down to being fluent and able to listen and adapt to how different people speak their own music language.
That's either perceived or being pedalled by pretentious "gatekeepers". I don't give a SHIT if you know every recording under the sun or literally only like one Charlie Parker tune....if you like the music that's all that matters. Discover it at your own pace. Much like playing, listening to music isn't a competiton.
But I get what Patrick is saying here, he's specifically talking about guys that are shooting for the moon in terms of their musical aspirations.
Hey! I love your videos. I’m not even a jazz musician but I love listening to jazz and learning about the history.
Love all this. Jazz and Music is a daunting hill to climb! You have to keep learning.
I also want to point out... beginners get overwhelmed quickly! Its ok to talk to beginners about ii-V-I's as a vehicle to surviving a solo. Now more than ever we need young jazz musicians onstage trying out old and new ideas. We need new audiences too. I guess Id rather a young kid get onstage and make things happen with the best knowledge they have rather than NOT be onstage burdened by the past greats. We need players! I guess I'm arguing for all us adults to let the kids be stupid and naive for a minute. They'll grow up.
16:53 TRUTH! no one else is saying this stuff this why you're the realest. It's both eye opening and humbling hearing you speak, you're like the modern day muse of jazz.
I'm 15 years old and play the alto, I love the music and I love its history. I dream to one day get good enough to gig and meet and play with musicians that are hip to the history and share the same passion for jazz that I do. I feel like I'd be doing myself a disservice, or missing out on some exciting new music being made every day, if I pursued any other career. I really do know deep inside that jazz is my calling but man its like fighting against all the odds to go the music path full time. I'm so grateful that I have the support and the financial background from my parents to even do music as a hobby in the first place. I might just study for a more "realistic" degree and try for a stable income day job just to have the ability to play music on the side while living comfortably. Its been a dream of mine to go to music school, if only to be able to meet and interact with like-minded people. i guess i'll see where life takes me. i'm pretty young i've got a lot of time to think about it so imma just keep at it and shed some transcriptions, listen to the greats. Thanks for your honesty in this video man you're an inspiration.
So how have you handle that situation because I'm 15 with the same problem, any advice?
Heyo! I for one totally prefer longer videos like this one. Would love to see a "Real Talk" series with this kind of time length. Thanks for the knowledge drop! :)
You know in my jazz circle in college, I have always been told that in order to play with real jazz musicians, you have to know bebop. While I still study and play bebop, I have also begun to understand that it should not be the only thing to learn. There are so many jazz genres out there and there are many genres outside of jazz. I study classical music, not because I want to make a performance career on it, but because I want to apply that language into the music that I play with others. I myself like video game music, because I like the melodic content in it, just I like I do in other genres of music, jazz, classical, whatever. I think of music as a collective and not something is sectioned off into separate rooms, even though physically it might seem that way to people, which is sad.
Thank you for this. As someone going through the jazz-education route in college and am only a few years into my jazz journey. I feel that almost no one has been able to be honest to this level. Maybe 1 guy to some extent but I wasn’t ready to hear it. Yes it seems daunting, but brutal honesty is the only way I’ve ever grown. The path forward seems a little bit more clear!
Music school generally - and since forver - has been a "pull the wool over the eyes" (of the student) exercise. They NEVER tell the student his/her real chances. The same goes for classical violinists and oboists and pianists. GOOD NEWS? Go for the advanced degree and you probably can teach. That's where the Ron Carters and the Marcus Roberts and the Gary Peacocks end up ANYWAY. (Tired of the road? TEACH!) Would a Lyle Mays, Pat Metheny, Joe Zawinul, Chick Corea path be open today??? Good question. Possible not.
@@zdogg8 I can see a bit of the “wool over your eyes” thing finally too after being in it for a few years. The good news is I’d love to be able to teach! I think I’ve tried learning to enjoy just being part of the process. Having a devotion to something I love has given me a focus and discipline, and if that’s all I get out of then It’s still changed my life for the better! It doesn’t seem like being a star is much of a thing anymore from what I’ve read too
@@user-qe2ow7qz1r RIGHT! It's (teaching) not a capitulation. Most music lovers' most intense relationship with music will be the local church/school choir or school jazz orchestra and so forth. A better musically educated world is ESSENTIAL the the re-emergence of any sort of jazz/music revival.
Keep inspiring a new generation of jazz lovers. Much appreciation for your work.😍
''being great is more important than being the best''
Maaan, just stressed thinking about it aha! There's a lot of music to learn but also appreciate. 70 years from now we'll have no direct connection to the OGs and so it's important now to know the music purely how it was presented originally and to seek the masters out. Also can't forget the heritage of Black American music. It's like we don't know how lucky we are to still be able to go hear the masters live.
Kind of like watching Lebron, Jordan or Kobe in person. Also nobody does the sky hook anymore or a granny freethrow lmaoo but I do appreciate those players who were great at it.
i’m a 15 year old tenor saxophonist mostly focused on 50s - 60s bebop/hard bop music, hopefully i’m going to shed some light on it in the future
If you play tenor, make sure you study Lester Young, Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins, Frankie Trumbauer, Wardell Gray, and cats after them like Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Michael Brecker, Bob Berg, Joshua Redman, Chris Potter, etc. Get all of it and find the connections! Have fun!
ohh, cool.
i mostly study john coltrane, hank mobley, johnny griffin, dexter gordon, stanley turrentine, leo parker, ike quebec, and lou donaldson.
"You gotta dig into the history:" I literally had this discussion the other day on an art forum, explaining that while you may not need to study art history in order to paint, that it does make a difference understanding where certain concepts come from. Some artists, were like , not necessary, and others were like, must revere the masters. And while reverence may not be necessary, knowing of the history is certainly a benefit, in my opinion, because it explains some of the reasons for why we do what we do.
Jazz is beautiful and for the connoisseur of history and tradition.
I was raised on it and studied it in my early years.
I play it quite often and live with it.
I am not a touring musician but I am a musician and appreciate jazz 100 percent .
Ken Burns Jazz is the road map history of where it comes from
The thought about the "one size fits all" hit extra hard, because a lot of time that approach told me my instrument isn't allowed in jazz. The one size fits all tells me I should switch to trumpet or trombone "just to be safe" which is...well that sums it up doesn't it? Play these 2-5s, "just to be safe."
I'm a french horn player, and developing as a jazz player has been difficult because I'm kind of lumped into the "misc instrument trying their best" category. But I'm still learning the history and working to improve.
I like your videos. Very genuine and sincere. Thank you!
You do gotta learn your 2-5s, like that’s part of the foundation of the music
@@kennethreed8746
...I do learn those. I do put in the work.
Did you actually watch the video? I was referring to the part where he said that some people treat that as the end game, rather than learning the history.
And that was the parallel I was drawing. "Don't bother learning the history, just learn these 2-5 licks to be safe."
French horn definitely is a hard road to travel professionally. Julius Watkins carved out a niche, and Gunther Schuller played on the Birth of the Cool records. Put yourself out there: people always want something different.
I like Clark Terry's _Color_ _Changes_ album; check it out if you haven't already.
@@TheJohnStacy I had just started the video and I commented before he said that, but I still stand by what I said in general just because of how much versatility you could apply to the ii-Vs. I think he just meant the idea of copying licks in general.
Great video! It's been intersting to me that after I started transcribing some bird licks that I started to hear them pop up in other players from time to time. And that made it click for me that it's all connected and part of a larger language. It's like a big puzzle and taking the time to follow the lineage and study by listeing deeply and transcribing unlocks a whole new dimension to the music. It's interesting to see how the different styles have influence the popular musics of the day too, like stride and boogie woogie being the base for rock and roll. As a tuba player I've always felt limited in what I can do, but I read this great article that explaines how tuba was the original low end before being replaced by double bass, and it has a bunch of great examples of tuba players throughout the history, and the current players like Theon Cross who are continuing to push the instrument. It feels great to know that if I dedicate myself to studying the music that I can be a part of that lineage and tradition as well.
Beautiful message. How do we grow? With roots.
Thank you, Patrick, for eloquently explaining that being steeped in the roots, the evolution of all jazz styles, and having a comprehensive, undiscriminating view of the music (and musicians) is key.
Loved the analogy of thinking of the history as an interesting story. Too many players get caught up in the destination, or alternatively in any one narrow pocket of Jazz, at the neglect of the parallels outside. Having a focus or specializing is good, but ultimately, getting hip to the early or "older" sounds tends to inform and enhance the appreciation and scope of the new. Meaning arises through contrast. Also, getting in tune with speaking to people through playing, being sensitive to an audience, is crucial for most any musician.
The magic you allude to is essential too. It's why young students can feel the transporting excitement of a Dizzy Gillespie solo, or a hot Fletcher Henderson or Noble Sissle Orchestra recording from the early 1930's, or Cannonball v Coltrane on Limehouse Blues, or Roy Eldridge with Gene Krupa on After You've Gone...It's the same vibrant spirit and it should indeed be joyful and fun to dig into it. Finding the commonality across eras is more insightful than reacting to the difference.
One of the most important videos related to my journey playing this music. Thank you for sharing.
Man I relate to this so much… I listened and studied everything… then I discovered Casiopea… that top shelf JFusion effed me up fam.
"I want excellence to stay at the forefront" could not have said it better! great video!
Came across Patrick, for the first, while following Japanese bassist Juna Serita and then Dom Polambi's Game Nite. So glad I did. now it brings me here. Really enjoy his take on modern jazz. He does live what he is "preaching". Who'da thought serious musicians would be bringing their own flavor to 'Sonic the Hedgehog' and 'Hey Arnold' soundtrack covers. I'm 70, but I enjoyed playing and watching with my, now 30 year old, son. I have got to say, when the "Game Nite" crew get cooking; man , my eyes start to well up; it is so good.
I just love how this man speaks: he has straightforward, good arguments and he knows a lot, but ultimately passion for music is the drive
Good talk...
Thank you for this Maestro! 🙏🏾 Blessings
Patrick, this video means a lot to me on my journey through music and jazz in particular. Finding your way through how to express yourself using a language, that at this point as you say is vast and nuanced beyond realistic comprehension, can be very difficult and unintuitive especially if you don't grow up around the music or if where you live lacks a jazz scene. Videos like yours help put things in perspective for the musical youth and that effect is magnified by your virtuosity and musicality. I am constantly amazed by all the shows from Emmet's Place and this video has also reinforced my blossoming love for the history and mythos of the genre. I do want to be great! Thank you!
I’m glad your around, Patrick. Keeping it real!
I came here to learn how to be a basic Jazz musician and this man gives me an entire understanding of what it means to be good, not just at jazz or music, but just being overall. God bless.
Mr Bartley, keep talking and "rambling" its very valuable. Please continue these talks, its very important, particularly now...jazz is endangered. Very well said and lots of valuable advice. Would be nice for you to continue this conversation...please I wanna hear more advice. I will always keep practicing...
Another important aspect of study is to learn about all the genius women, particularly instrumentalists, who were written out of jazz history and remain largely unmentioned in jazz schools today.
How do I get this information?
@@lixinevela listen to albums, subscribe to ig accounts or channels that discuss women in jazz, watch jazz documentaries, buy vinyl and read liner notes, go to shows where women are leading the band, listen to interviews featuring women musicians, etc. :)
@@NoraGermain Thank you for this🤍. I've been really looking for Women Jazz musicians and I always end up frustrated. I'll check this sources out.
@@lixinevela i have a channel here too 🙂🎻
Thank You
I am watching this because of the topic. And me being 77 and having had a very rewarding career in this music (and continuing to do so) am interested in where things are now for the players in your generation and the generation you are now addressing. Plus i just love hanging and listening to other players!!
The statement beginning at the 6:56 min mark is why I've gladly subbed this channel! Brilliant work... 💯
Your videos give me life , I’ll keep shedding and learning the history, thank you
I think about why it is I create. I feel like the people coming up in this music had a strong reason why. There is “just having fun”, which is fine.. this music can be fun to play.. the world needs fun and joy. But there has always been more of a why than that. I believe being in touch with that is part of what it takes🐬
I want to see this music go somewhere meaningful as well. Thank YOU Pat.
This video is worth watching more than once!!!
This is insightful, thank you Pat! I’m gonna go home and just listen to everything I can find.
So greatful for your advice because I do be feeling this way but no one is here to talk about these things. You are a great mentor! I feel so lost often times because I'm trying to understand why I'm not able to do certain things but the more I watch your videos the more I feel I'm able to get to where I need to be. Thanks 👍
Hoping this is where we should post questions and suggestions for topics. Teacher perspective. What got you started? What inspired and motivated you? Did you have to be told to practice and did that work? Do you have beginner students/what do you have students start on? TIA. You are a wonderful human being. ♥️
Hey, I was always very passionate about Jazz but your essay actually shows me how limited my horizon was. I want to try to deep dive into the history and therefore i want to ask fellow musicians for advice whose recordings i should get into first. It's just kind of hart to make the first step for me because of the extrem information overload but I feel like trying to deep dive into it might make things clear for me whether I want to pursue the music passion more or if it stays more something of a hobby.
Thanks in advance!
Great Video btw. I really enjoyed your talk
I was taught in jazz about last year, and since then I’ve been just messing with it. You know, getting to know history, and listening to different styles. And getting the feelings of that sound. And after all of it, I think I’m beginning to get it, especially in Piano. I know you do sax a lot, but it still applies somewhat to it, with making rhythms. Just we pianists have 88 keys, and have to be bouncing chords alongside the main improv sounds, on most occasions. Still, I agree with a lot of what’s being said, even now past 2022. Have no idea how well this impacts!
Thank you man. My love for the music is my love for what I’ve learned about the people who made it. They are my second family. M talking like this about it is how we make it mean something.
The "new thing" of the early 40s called Be-Bop turned most of the potential audience off. Nobody could dance to it and the people voted with their feet. Clubs were loath to book most be-bop combos as they needed an audience to stick around all night and spend their cash. Similarly with the "free jazz" starting in the early 60s - tiny audiences no matter how "artistic" the players considered themselves. To get by as a full-time jazzer - you'e spot on, Mr B:)
I studied a second language in college and had started this new journey at 18 years old. I started sax at 21 . That was 20 years ago. One thing I think overlooked in education is that youth will get it if dedicated. But starting late in life even in linguistic studies, if you begin a language after certain ages you’ll carry an accent. I’ve been on a new pro horn practice 3 hours a day for months and I feel it barely moves the needle…
Moral of story is you can tell who started in youth. Brains adapt quickly in that youthful state.
Patrick, an absolute truth that any musician needs to hear and absorb. As a 78 year old musician who fell in love with music in high school, one has to study, understand the history of music going back to the beginning in Africa, Asia, Europe up to the present time.
Plus, for me, I had to go back and understand the logic of the guitar. Why is it tuned in fourths and a third. And, to listen to as much live music and recordings as possible.
I was fortunate to have heard Wes, Miles, Art Blakey, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Jimmy Smith, Groove Holmes, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Dexter etc., live numerous times and couldn’t believe what I was hearing.
By living” the music it became a part of me so I could play from the spirit and soul without thinking about scales, chords etc.
And, with doing all of the above and working a day gig, I became a good musician.
I admire and marvel at the level of musicianship you have obtained. It is truly incredible and took thousands of hours of dedication, very hard work and sacrifice.
Wes gave me some advice a couple of months before his untimely death in 1968. “Play with a clear mind, keep your music fresh and never play a song the same way twice.”
Btw I release a fusion ep last year called Fusion Underclass by the Mike Edmonds Quintet . It’s ok , demos to some extent because I played the piano - keyboards as well as bass . Couldn’t afford a pianist but it’s all a work in progress . I was a teenager in the 1980s and every Weather report release was a big thing . Really enjoyed your talk
I've always felt that my music was much more enriched from having watched documentaries and listened to/read interviews with cats, but I couldn't put my finger on it or explain it as precisely. I dig it man
Yes!! I Love this real talk. Thank you!! (Future Topic?) What about those students/enthusiasts that are struggling and think that the reason their development is not crystallizing is simply because they just don't have "it." How does dedication, work ethic and self-determination play a role in the journey to competency, some might think the reason "You" are where you are is because you where blessed with the talent and "I" just don't have it.
These rambles are great man 🙌🏼 keep philosophizing
This was amazing, motivating, inspiring even. The child transcribing their parents analogy is one that I use a lot…. But it doesn’t matter who uses it… it’s universally true in a way that everyone can understand. Great video.
The passion that you got boiling is VERY inspiring, thank you for doing what you do, really!
Thanks for the vid Patrick!
@Mank Hobley Yoooo what’s good!
Patrick. I’ve only discovered you recently and you’ve already taught me so much. Thank you.
Yes! Absolutely appreciate what you said. As someone who has spent a long time in music school, the “one size fits all” approach is frustrating and to be honest a bit depressing. The “implant into your solo this one line” method makes me sick. I’m also a fan of your music, I stubbled to the video and I’m glad. Thank you sir!
Thank you for this I appreciated your talk. I am an amateur long time beginner jazz musician, its a hobby for me. I would not be good enough to play for a living. The competition is extreme I would think just from seeing younger people play. Also, jazz is not as popular as I would like it to be.
I heard a story once that some one asked a famous jazz musician what kind of music he played, he just replied, “I play western music.” I love that answer, because as a jazz player, we do mostly follow a 12 tone system, which in historically pretty accurate. We don’t, in the west play too many micro, semi tones, maybe some vocalists, Betty Carter and other instrumentalist ‘play around with’ other tonal scales, we all play a 12 tone system aka “western music.” So when people ask what kind of music I play, I respond “I pretty much play western music.”
Ken Burns documentary on Jazz is a great have. I bought the collection over 20 years ago an never regretted it.
Love this. It's much more beneficial to look at the entirety of music and find the beautiful parts than to shut out the beautiful parts because there are elements you don't like (or worse yet: that OTHER people don't like). If we do this we are guided by our instincts instead of what people around us are saying. I think people talk about Louis Armstrong as "old" simply because somebody else told them to think that way. I feel the same way about relationships with other humans.
When I started, at the 90s internet wasn't around, I had a book, and 2-3 tapes. I really liked Coltrane, so I started to try copy him from those tapes I had to realize, I had to go back, and listen / learn what he has listened/learnt but there again what those cats .. and the previous ones and before them, this is how it goes. Jelly Roll, Muggsy Sp. etc
Powerful stuff, Patrick. Thanks for posting this!
1) Did indeed watch to the end. 2) Just finished the Ken Burns Jazz Dco (saw the recommendation on Discord), can confirm it to be a fantastic place to start. 3) I'm kinda thankful that I have no wish to be a professional jazz musician (who knows, if life throws me that way, so be it; but here and now, I have no drive to make jazz my career), I'm honestly much happier as a hobbiest... That said HOWEVER, the music I want to play is jazz, and if all the history is as interesting as the stuff in the Ken Burns Doc, then by jingo I'm going to dig till I can dig no more -- though at the same time, I doubt I'll reach out to many of the legends... I mean, I'm just a hobiest, no some hip upcoming musician to carry a legacy forward.
That said, this vid has definitely given me both something to think about, and a bit of hope that I'm not going in the wrong direction. Up until now I was threating about needing to learn all the theory and the constriction of x, y, and z... and though I'm sure all of that is important, it's also nice to know that I'm not 100% on the wrong track through learning via transcribing the music I love to listen too.
Side note: I really need to try and stop by the discord VC more often. Can confirm that one can learn a lot from it! (Even if I'm usually to shy to join in the voice convo myself... or at work 😅)
Go get the history. Best thing I heard about learning jazz musics from now. It's really cool how you're passionnate. Thanks from France
20:08
The best gem for me out of this video- I try to convince myself of as much following the same logic you outlined, but hearing someone like yourself state it really gives it validity. ☺
I've been playing jazz for a while now, and I have learnt a lot of stuff about jazz on stage and through film (youtube) and I LOVE JAZZ. This video is one of the best I have ever seen....very inspiring....thanks very much.
What's up ~~ Patrick, really pleasure~~ actually I've heard you from my professor~~ he recommended you
really happy to know you again ~ I’ve been playing the sax for 4 years. i think that the sax play is very very tough ~ but I really love sax ^^ ! thanks for sharing your knowledge
Thank you so much for these videos Patrick. This is the sort of stuff I've been feeling but had no words for. Much love from the UK
So this is the third time I am watching and listening to this. It is so ironic, that this is about Jazz, and the way Mr Bartley presented this is exactly how Jazz happens. I predict that this talk will be seen and spoken about for years to come.
Man feels like music church. Came out feeling enlightened. Thanks Mr.Bartley!
Went to Florida Memorial with Mr. Mustafa RIP Great man!
What. Lou Donaldson still around. Didn't know that. Is he actively playing? Been listening to blues walk a lot lately. Classic.
Even as a trumpet player your videos are so helpful and insightful!!!
I TOTALLY agree....the HISTORY......as you said, there's over 100 years of recorded music.......be on top of ALL OF IT
You are THE MAN, Frank, and I miss you, professor! Thank you for everything!
Very Knowledgeable
Thank you Patrick!🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼 that motivated the hell outa me!💪🏼
Thank you for your insights and all the energy and time you put into these videos. Truly inspirational and much appreciated. Looking forward to all the upcoming content! You are a true teacher.
Charlie Parker didn’t have UA-cam but in those days I think there were at lot more gigs and places to hear and play . He joined bands and practiced . Joe Temperly , used to watch his Jazz Apple TV show which was excellent . Saw Connie Kay , Peter Washington , Milt Hinton and Jimmy Heath on tv thanks to that show . Arvil Shaw too . Was he playing with Jay McShane ? Great tv program .
That Emmett Cohen performance was fucking mental.
Damn, you make a good point about either knowing it all, or finding your one thing. But if you only have one thing, you better hope there's an audience for that thing.
You have to look back before you can go forward, that's why I love studying Bach, just take a look at his Allemande from the French suite in E flat major and your find that his skill at joining chord arpeggios together that twist and turn all over your instrument are second to none, you will find dominant sevenths minor sevenths major sevenths diminished and augmented chords just to name a few and what's even more amazing is that he was doing all this more than three hundred years ago, it's like he was improvising and composing on the spot, but because recording equipment had not been invented he had to write everything down and score it out so he knew he could remember all his creative ideas. P.S All I can say is lucky for all us music making monsters that he did, especially Jazz musicians.
Truth! You gotta live this music. "You can't just learn some ii-V -I licks and go the club. " word
Hey Pat, incredible video yet again! I would love to hear you talking about how you brought all your knowledge from jazz and applied it to videogame music. Also, following the topic of your video, I was extremely curious if you also learned about videogame music history. Finally, id also love if you could point us to some jazz albuns! Most people just say the same 10 musicians, but on this video you mentioned some I didn't knew, so I'd love to know more! Thanks!
Yes, listen to all music. Not just your favorite jazz style. Listen to classical, Asian, Latin, all pop music styles etc.. and with an analytical ear, not in the background while you are doing other things. Very few musicians actually make a living playing music, let alone only playing in the style that you prefer. I have played for a living because I have played and learned ever style of music from classical, Latin, Broadway, all jazz styles from trad to post bop. As a trombone player I learned that even the masters did this like Carl Fontana playing in Vegas shows and in the Symphony! Of course I have my favorites, but all my playing experiences influence my style of jazz.
I appreciate what is being communicated, because so many people that play a musical instrument have misconceptions on what it really takes to make a living let alone a life playing music of any kind, let alone playing jazz. Jazz and classical music, are both passionately loved and appreciated but by a much smaller group than popular music. It would be much easier for a musician to earn money playing songs that the masses want to hear. ( rock, country, pop. soul, rap, dance etc) than to earn money playing jazz. To do that you. should be able to sound as good as the people on the recordings of what ever kind of music your playing, which takes some serious work, then learn all about marketing yourself, which is an entirely different conversation. One of the things Patrick mentioned that I really appreciated, is talking about the importance of being able to be extremely disciplined and compliant to be able to fit in certain situations, (left brain logical, responsible, mature adult etc ) and at the same time be able to let it all out, having your emotions connect with the playing of your instrument (right brain spiritual, carefree, magical) Wish you all well
First vid of yours I've seen; instant sub 🤘 Commenting for that algorithm love
Right on brother Pat, subscribed & bell rung for future oh talented 1 !!