Desktop HiFi (part 2) - the search for a DAC, preamplifier and loudspeakers is over!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- In this episode I conclude my search for an outstanding desktop solution. apart from DACs and Preamplifiers, I explore active loudspeaker solutions and finally come to a decision as to what will stay on my desk and why.
Chapters
00:00 - Intro music
00:27 - Introduction - why we need desktop systems
03:37 - The pro-audio approach to hifi
06:22 - Active loudspeakers comparison
08:30 - Avoiding obsolescence
10:30 - Yamaha HS7
11:32 - Neumann KH120 Mk ll & KH750 & MA1
19:23 - What dac & preamplifier? - The Eversolo Z8
20:27 - Dac preamplifier alternatives - Fiio R7, SMSL M50, SMSL D400 EX
21:36 - Eversolo Z8 why?
22:43 - SPL Phonitor 2
29:15 - Chord Qutest vs SMSL D400 EX
32:56 - Conclusions and lessons learned
Link to Darko's review of the Fiio R7: • The BEST for Apple Mus...
If you would like to find out more about Pearl Acoustics and our Sibelius loudspeakers, please visit our website at: www.pearlacoustics.com
or email us with your questions: enquiries@pearlacoustics.com
Social media links:
/ pearlacoustics
/ pearl.acoustics
Unboxing a set of Neumann KH120s is certainly an experience... it defies all your expectations - how can they sound so massively big and clear?
They are utterly amazing for their price, and at any price. They perform so good it feels like buying anything else is just setting fire to money.
Indeed. For me, the magic truly happened when I connected the subwoofer and balanced them either the Neumann microphone system. It took everything to a much higher level.
Your enthusiasm just is lovely and catching . Thank you, sir . 🙏 ❤ it is a nice feeling that we live in an ugly world, but beautiful people like you always give hope to continue on 🎉
Thank you, that’s very kind indeed. Very inspiring
Nicely said 👍That's exactly what I feel: It's an ugly world outside there, and that's why I need my home which is my castle, my audiophile castle where I get down and relax and listen to music and enjoy watching informative and inspiring videos from lovely people like Harvey. Thank you so much 🙏
@@Entitaet69 thanks! Much appreciated
A pleasure, as always, Harley. Thank you for sharing your journey. 🙏
You’re very welcome 🙏
Lovely talk. Honest, true and enjoyable.
Thank you kindly! Glad you enjoyed it
As a fellow desktop hifi person due to space limitations I applaud your open mind towards an active / powered system, even with DSP! I now have a pair of Focal Shape 65s connected to RME's Babyface Pro FS audio interface, a total upgrade from the KRK Rokit 5 G4s and the FocuseRite 4I4 3rd Gen audio interface. And, to borrow (steal) words from you, "It was a joy!!!" I never had this much fun listening to music than I do now, and it's going to last me for a long time. Thank you for sharing your process, and I'm so glad to embrace your enthusiasm!
Thank you for your very kind comment and appreciation. Enjoy your wonderful system. And the music too, of course 😉
This series deserves the title "adequate". At least. Nicely done Harley.
Thanks!
The 39 minutes went by so fast. Always great to hear your pro audio vs hifi insights.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it
I use the phonitor 3 and smsl su - x ! 😊😊 knew i knew my gear and ears ! Really good 2 parter ! 😮
😀
Very interesting commentary on headphones, learned some new things!
Thanks
I stumbled onto this video and am pleasantly surprised at the wealth of knowledge presented here. I could listen to your channel all day. You made a lifetime fan today.
Wow! That’s so great to hear! Welcome
Highly interesting and, as always, very enjoyable! Thank you Harley!
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks!
Absolutely fantastic and informative! Thank you for sharing your journey on your search. Your choice makes perfect sense and is entirely logical. It is a truly functional and practical professional system. I bet it also sounds great too😍😍😍 Well done, great job🤓🤓🤓👏👏👏
You are so welcome! Thanks very much for your kind appreciation. Oh yes, and it does sound surprisingly good!
My current desktop setup consists of SDIF digital out from the PC to a Cambridge Audio StreamMagic 6 (still a very high-end DAC) in pre-amp mode outputting to a unknown brand Chinese or Taiwanese class-A power amp from 1997 (beautifully built) which is driving a pair of home built (extremely well) single full-range driver damped transmission-line speakers! (probably made in the 80s) with USA made Realistic dual-cone drivers (when they were serious about DIY hi-fi) and a big Sony subwoofer (crossed over for only below 60hz). It's completely bonkers, but it sounds amazing with an incredible sound-stage. All obviously second-hand from various sources and cost me a total of $200 😀
That’s just great! Congratulations
I agree with physical cable connection and don’t bother with Bluetooth etc myself. Same for active speakers which I have had for many years as a desk top system and main hifi. Well designed active speakers have better transient response, deeper and better controlled bass, quieter noise floor, are less fatiguing, sound cleaner and have more information retrieval than an equivalent passive system. I would never go back to passive.
The whole point of the exercise as Linn and Naim and others say is information retrieval as close to the source as possible with the minimum degradation.
Thanks for your comment and contribution to the topic
I have the LS50 as my nearly desktop speakers, very impressive and look cool
As a Sibelius (living room, with Lundahl MagAmp) and Neumann fan and owner (office, KH310, 2x750 - you might want to try) I enjoyed this video tremendously - thank you very much for sharing.
Wow, what a coincidence! So pleased you enjoyed it. Thanks for your kind feedback
Always enjoyable Harley!! Thank you.
You’re very welcome!
I was looking forward to seeing where you ended up. I was surprised you went away from passive speakers but definitely can see why you did and your final list was accurate and definitely worth following. I chuckled when you included the Sub in the equation. May you enjoy many years with your desk system.
Thanks! 😀
Great video. I haven't changed anything in my system in maybe 6 years.
That’s great to hear! Enjoy the music
A wise man.
These have been two very nice and instructive videos that I have really enjoyed! Antwerp, o yea, Nederland is one of the best countries to live in, at least in the 80's and 90's with very civilized people, clean cities, and I loved their bicycle tracks. Late edit: Antwerp is in Belgium, I apologize for this unpardonable mistake!
Glad you liked them, although your error was of massive cultural significance, because you identified and corrected it yourself - the Pearl Acoustics editorial panel have come to the unanimous decision that you are totally forgiven! 😂 Thanks for your kind encouragement
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you! 😀😇
You are never too long. Thanks 😊
So nice of you!
do please continue your ramblings even from your nursing home😂😂👏🏼👏🏼
you are pathetic sir
Thanks!
I am also quite happy with my Neumann set-up. I’m driving it with a RME DAC/headphone amp…
That’s a good choice and was also on my short list.
Very well done, thanks! 🙏
Thank you. 🙏
🤗THANKS HARLEY , HOPE YOU ARE DOING WELL 💚💚💚
You’re welcome. Doing just fine, thanks for asking
* By turning the Eversolo DAC-Z8 volume knob to max level, it will then bypass the volume control and let your preamp control it.
Indeed!
For the same reasons and required qualities as you mentionned for pro headphones , i use headphones for building , voicing and repair evaluations , any choice of components or modification must and is to be decernable .........therefore one must be as you said be..........familiar with the sound as a well known personal reference .........
I used desktop as a big open headphone , something like an earspeaker near field .....wonderfull experience ...........without stress or listening fatigue .
Kind regards
Thanks for your comment. It is a nice way of solving a problem
Desktop Hifi systems can sound amazing
Indeed!
Fabulous as usual :)
Thank you! Cheers!
Wonderful!
Many thanks!
Great video again, great insights and informations for all of us I believe - at least for me. Phonitor2 is a really interesting gear.
Can we expect something like this about pre-amps in the future? Some experienced audiophiles claims, that a pre-amp is the heart of the system.
Thank you for your kind comment. I think a video on pre-amplifiers is a great idea, especially as we are launching two new power amplifiers in 2024, and without a pre-amplifier they are totally useless 😉
Great! :)@@PearlAcoustics
Excellent series again!! You really stand out on YT!! It's always a joy following your journeys. Concerning this set up have you also looked at Adam Audio Speakers?
Best Regards,
Horst
Thank you for your appreciation. I have heard Adam loudspeakers and I am sure they are fine, but I had to choose and focused in on Neumann.
Very interesting topic for professional like me! I use focal active speakers with a sub in near field for work (with Sonarworks room correction). But I find me doing mastering in my living room since I got Wharfedale's Linton...maybe because I listen more often to music in general in my living room, and it is more "natural" sounding (still very revealing)... I will try the Buchardt A10 soon to see if I can do mastering with those, but with a less "studio near field" artificial vibe... the Neumann are not out of question for me, but I don't know any mastering studio using that... it is more used for mixing. I totally understand that is the best option for you since your engineer use the same kit!
Thanks for your comment. So pleased you found it interesting. Of course the actual mastering is not done on my system and is only finalised when the record has been played through a variety of systems, including our listening rooms.
Amazing information, from Arcam Alto speakers and Arcam Solo with focal Arche dac/Amp and focal Utopia OG is great set up just need to improve home settings
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for your insight into DAC/preamplifier talk i can honestly say you are wright in what you are saying because i personally keep changing equipment thinking there is something better out there for my system & there isn’t for my budget. I like the equipment i own but you watch a UA-cam product review & you think wow that’s what i need but it isn’t. It’s almost like i am sacred on missing out on better sound quality but i am not. I have decided to take what i own & make it the best possible sounding system it can be by 39:13 not constantly throwing money at with no real gain.
Perfect! Thanks for your comment
Amazing technology
👍
I can't stop drooling at the Sugden duo. *Sigh
😉
It was a very cool and informative "lesson" on the considerations and differences between desktop and in your room setup.
Thank you so very much for your time and effort in the video. I have a question for you. As you were describing the technical expertise that went into the Phoneitor I wondered if their expertise would carry over into their commercial "preamp" side of the business? I have seen a few audio reviewers swear by the sound and convenience of their preamp? I know I have to go listen to it on my own...
Thanks for your comment. It’s much appreciated. I have absolutely no doubt as to the quality and suitability of SPL preamplifiers. Basically they are all using the same 120v rail system. Always best to hear first, if you can but I would not worry too much. Do not expect it to add colour. It’s just voltage gain and functionality you get from them.
Fantastic Harley! I always learn something new from your videos. If you don’t mind me asking; have you listened to the Rega Aethos? If so, what were your impressions? I currently have the Rega Elicit MkV and I recently upgraded my turntable to the Rega P8 as well as speakers to the Sonus Faber Electa Amator. Trying to determine if the Aethos would be a worthwhile upgrade over the Elicit. Thank you, Dan
Hi Dan, thanks for your very kind appreciation. Yes indeed, I have heard the Rega Aethos, in fact I have one in my listening room in Tienen. It’s an extremely fine amplifier that is also beautifully built. I don’t know the Elicit, so I cannot comment on that. You’re welcome to pop over and listen, if you like! 😉
Hi Harley, Thank you so much for such an amazing/generous offer to visit. I live here in the United States so a visit would be very difficult 😊. Glad to hear your thoughts on the Aethos. I spent the last 25 years of my career building out and leading Learning Organizations for major companies. You have a rare gift and passion as an educator. Please keep doing these wonderful videos. Cheers!
Thank you Harley, could I ask, is this purely a system for your work requirements? As someone considering desktop systems I would be aiming more to a sound I like rather than a studio type setup.
Thank you for taking the time to make these videos, they really are appreciated!
Hi, we’ll that’s the really unexpected result… the sound is wonderful, musical (if you pardon the expression) natural sounding, lovely vocals, nothing at all I can imagine anyone complaining about. No worries there at all.
Thanks for your appreciation
Great review and choices, thank you! Did you find the KH120 to also work well for desktop music enjoyment, beyond the workhorse jobs they are so good at?
Thanks for your comment. Absolutely, that was the most surprising thing of all. They sounded great for music. Of course, as I say, it’s not the same experience as filling a listening room with sound, but still very enjoyable none the less.
Great video, I'm using a NEVE 88M as input and DAC, I do find the headphone preformance is a bit weak on the NEVE when paired with my BD DT1770P so very interested in the SPL Phonitor as headphone monitor
Thanks for your kind appreciation. I am pleased with the SPL, but I am not an expert in headphone amplifiers, only having owned a few (Quad PA One) and a few other amplifiers with headphone ability. Including the VMV A1 (which sounded OK) to me. Of course the Chord I tried was impressive but not the functionality of the SPL
Great review as always. I wonder if you considered the SPL Phonitor XE which has a built in DAC. It would have provided a single box solution (headphone amp, pre-amp and DAC) with the added benefit of having balanced headphone connectors. If so, did you feel that the SPL DAC was inferior to the Eversolo ?
Hi, very perceptive! Professional audio gear often has very dry analytical aspects to it, and I knew that times change and technology changes, so I decided to keep them separate, to keep my options open. So indeed, I decided to go for the best I could find to suit my needs.
Imo the piece of kit with the most flexibility always wins, i want to be able to adjust as many things as possible to suit my taste, my room, my music
👍
SPL also seems to provide an ASIO driver for those who want to integrate their headphone amps into their DAWs.
Thanks for your comment. Much appreciated
The most amazing thing about your speakers is that you CAN get amazing depth because of the missing crossover you have no loss in small signal accuracy. That is why I don’t understand why you would use such a complex system of analog components reducing that advantage. Especially because you said you only need 8W of power. I highly recommend trying the Chord TT2 (it has a super simple but precise analog section) directly driving your speakers of the RCA outputs and no other electronics in between. You will have amazing depth with your speakers.
Such a pity - considering the cost - that the TT2 does not offer a Balanced XLR for headphone listening. A major oversight.
It absolutely does have balanced XLR out. It is just recommended by the designer to use the RCA out when driving speakers directly.@@apollomemories7399
Hi, thanks for your comment and suggestion. I totally agree with keeping the input simple. I have tried a TT2 and it was very revealing, however it could not really drive the Sibelius loudspeakers, maybe a lack of current. I had the feeling that the Decware zen, at less than two watts per channel delivers a better result. It’s so hard to know these things without trying them.
How did you come to that conclusion? Was it lacking bass punch or did it sound too lean in general to you? I am asking because from a current point of view it should easily drive them. Down to 4ohm is no problem. @@PearlAcoustics
@@gehtnurdurch indeed, it’s a bit of a mystery, the owner of the TT2 was very happy with the combination, but he listens at very low volume. (Under 80db). It indeed felt a bit thin in the midrange, and not as dynamic as I had hoped. The Sibelius are easy to drive and do not fall below 6ohms. I think it is more a question of personal taste.
With the Neumann KH equipment you use its built-in DSP functionality - so D/A conversion is done twice, with one A/D step in between.
Did you try to go digitally right into the KH monitors?
Hi, indeed they have an AES connection, but that means you can only control the volume digitally (at source) or via some kind of mixing desk. And that can be sub optimal at very low volume. Pulse I wanted the the Neumann’s to process the input signal from my chosen source- Ie the D400 / Phonitor 2 or Qutest. Hope that makes sense?
@@PearlAcoustics your use case absolutely makes sense, but I am still convinced that doing external analog volume control results in less than optimum quality.
The user manual is available online -- in the English version on page 9 it is written "If the signal source is based on internal digital signal processing, it is recommended that you choose a digital connection between the signal source and the loudspeaker . This eliminates the need for additional signal conversion from digital to analog in the source and from analog to digital in the loudspeaker . This also applies if you are con- necting to an upstream DSP subwoofer (e .g . KH 750 DSP) . This should be connected to the loudspeakers via its digital output ."...
Anyway, interesting video, thanks for sharing!
[@PearlAcoustics] Herley - I've been following your UA-cam series searching for a great desktop audio system with interest since I'm on the same quest. QUESTION: You own a speaker company - why don't you build bookshelf speakers for yourself and, who knows, you might create a product worthy of being sold in the marketplace. Your Sebelius drivers or probably a good start. Being a bit silly here; take a Sebelius floor stander and chop it of 12- 16 inches below the top. Always a fan of your channel!
Hi Tom, thanks for your lovely comment! Oh if I had a EUR for every time someone asked me to make a bookshelf Sibelius. I have designed many bookshelf speakers in the past and without crossovers or active electronics, they simply don’t work. A ‘chopped down’ Sibelius would sound like a violin, meaning that its the Sibelius’ enclosure that delivers the magical deep bass. When I retired from the daily running of the business, the team made me a pair of perfectly scaled down mini Sibelius’s as a leaving present. they looked so cute and worked, but sadly not to the level that would allow us to bring them to market.
Hi Tom, thanks for your lovely comment! Oh if I had a EUR for every time someone asked me to make a bookshelf Sibelius. I have designed many bookshelf speakers in the past and without crossovers or active electronics, they simply don’t work. A ‘chopped down’ Sibelius would sound like a violin, meaning that its the Sibelius’ enclosure that delivers the magical deep bass. When I retired from the daily running of the business, the team made me a pair of perfectly scaled down mini Sibelius’s as a leaving present. they looked so cute and worked, but sadly not to the level that would allow us to bring them to market.
If I’m not mistaken, this setup is doing DA / AD / DA conversion… because your going from SMSL in analog to the DSP of the monitors that convert your analog to digital to use the room eq and then reconverting to analog to the speakers… that is maybe why you don’t hear a difference between Qutest and SMSL DAC…
Hi, you make a very good point here. This sequence is needed because if I used AES, then I would have to adjust the volume digitally at source, which is not ideal. However, the DSP in the Neumann 750 processes the incoming audio, be it from the SMSL or the Qutest, so it should still sound different. But, I think I did not explain myself as good as I could have because the only time the SMSL and the Qutest sounded the same to me, was when listening to the SMSL with the DSD filter on narrow. Hope that clears things up a bit?
@@PearlAcousticsI'm wondering with active dsp speakers, where is the best place for volume attenuation in the chain... could it be the volume on the speakers dsp itself? ( no attenuation before the AD/ DA of the speakers)
@@guystpierrecomposer to be honest, I think it is after the Dac and before the input to the speakers. Products like SPL have a signal to noise ratio in the region of 130db, which is way better than anywhere else in the chain
@@PearlAcousticsprobably it is fine because of the quality of those components, but the SPL is before another DAC, not directly before the speakers amp. Good question for Neumann engineer I guess ;)
@@guystpierrecomposer indeed.
headphones and speakers make the major difference
As per inverse-square law you play music at 16 times lower volume when listening from 1m distance at the desk as against listening from 4m distance across the room, i.e. less nuisance for flatmates and neighbours.
👍😉
no shit,Logitech Z680,just needs sub rengineered ! lol
😉
Have you been listening to Herbie Hancock ! Try the soundtrack to " The Revenant".
Ok, will check it out. Thanks for the tip!
I was surprised that you didn't go for active nearfield monitors in part 1. For those who don't own a laptop with "audiophile" software for audio playback, for streaming from local hard disks or from internet the solution would be different, for example Fiio R7 or Eversolo DMP-A6 that both include digital audio players, SD/SSD slots and LAN/WLAN connectivity.
Indeed, thanks for your contribution to the topic