I dont understand why its the Archheart and not the Changebringer. Ya know. The god of change, and the only god the party had anything to do with for 90% or the campaign. If she asked a favour the party might actually listen, if at least for FCG
@@RatShadows I think it’s mostly based on what Silaha did in downfall and how the changebringer was with fcg she seems keen to keep things the way they are weirdly
The Changebringer's presence in the campaign was minimal at best and FCG's connection to them was fickle. Sam/FCG didn't show any real interest in following a god until around the time of the Ruidus plot started unfolding and it was mostly played for laughs. When he DID try to take it more seriously, it was to try and get definitive answers about if the gods are good or should be saved. If anything, having the Changebringer show up would likely have the party asking the obvious question of why didn't FCG's god save him or bring him back and considering Matt can't just say "Because that wouldn't be good for the story or player fun" (the GM answer) it will be something either something vague or infuriating that will steer the party in a direction they may not have otherwise taken.
First, simply for the meta reason that Abubakar was available and had played the Archheart in the Downfall arc. But also because they were the god that showed both the most compassion for mortals, and the least interest in interfering with them. The better question is, why was it the Raven Queen instead of the Changebringer? I made a prediction of who the second was at the end of the conversation with the Archheart. From least to most, the ones that I felt were likely: Asmodeus - you can't trust him. Wildmother - she's too connected to Exandria. Platinum Dragon - We don't know much about him(?), but he seems pretty set on defeating Ludinus and preserving the status quo. Matron - she fought too hard to be a god, and didn't give any indication that she was ready to give that up. Dawnfather - too stubborn, but of the least likely, he seems the most likely to listen to reason. Kord - similar to Dawnfather, I think he's too much of a fighter, and would view it as giving up, but he's also wise and honorable. Moonweaver - she's not really connected to Exandria, and as a god of tides, she also likely to recognize the need for change, as change is in her nature. Plus as a trickster, setting Predathos free and driving the gods away sounds like a fun trick. All-Hammer - As a god of creation, I think he's likely to be similar to Archheart. Everlight - If you can convince her that the gods staying does more harm than good, she would leave. Lawbearer - They were one of the first to propose the divine gate in the first place. Ioun - She has the wisdom to see the necessity of the gods leaving. Changebringer - Change is in her name.
To be fair, the Archheart and the Raven Queen are the only ones each other know believe it. Changebringer is a bit chaotic, so perhaps their point or idea is a little hard to pin down. I think she'd be down, due to her tenants, or at least down for the Raven Queens idea of the people choosing/accepting them but making new rules for their relationship. Either that or, if people said to her they wanted that, she would also be down. Alternatively though, I can also see why they would side with the Prime, as their second tenant "Change is inevitable. The righteous can ensure that such change is for the better." kinda seems to me like they believe that they (and the people of the World) can make sure the Prime (and by extention, the Betrayers) next actions can be for the better rather than the worse, without leaving the world or being eaten.
For me, I'm firmly against the Arch Heart, mainly because of the ways their going about this (for me they're the closest Prime God to being a Betrayer). In one of your other videos I left a massive comment going into that. The Wildmother I can see where she's coming from, it's strange seeing a Nature god afraid of evolution and change, but with how dangerous Predathos is I can understand why. Keeping things as they are sounds a lot better than everything burning to the ground and dying. The Matron has a decent argument, she's a bit too willing to pack up and leave for a god that was once mortal but I like that she's leaving the choice to Exandria for what's happening. The best outcome is Predathos being stopped and a new dynamic forms where the gods act more benevolent and serve Exandria lovingly. So I'm on her side, but leaning more towards Wildmother on the scale. I will add though that a lot of the arguments in favour of the gods leaving leave a few things out. Will Predathos really ignore the easy meal that is Exandria? Maybe (not a good enough answer). Won't new beings just fill in the power vacuum left by the gods? Won't clerics and paladins and other devout Exandrian's feel abandoned and betrayed if they leave? And isn't the main problem with "Exandrian's Choosing" that evil wizards will mess things up (every issue in Exandria's history after the Schism is a direct result of wizards being egomaniacs: Vecna, Laerryn, Ludinus, Vespen Cloris, Raishan (knew magic and freed Thordak), Delilah, Cererbus Assembly, Aeor, Avilir, the Age of Arcanum as a whole)? Yeah, the God's shouldn't leave unless it's literally - definitively - the last option they have.
This is a tuff decision 😅 it all depends on people’s opinions and beliefs in the end and the matron is right the people should choose and not the gods this time. But who knows what Matt has in plan for the end, it’s so exciting to not know what’s going to happen!
Out of the three, the raven queen is the one I trust the most. She's atleast willing to answer for her actions. She's willing to stay behind and face the end. Just like the previous god of death did The wild mother I understand also, she's likly the most invested in life and the most aware that nature apores a vacuum Something no one has thought about. Even if the gods leave peacefully and so dose podarous and luda is betten After even if the gods leave doesn't remove the desire for God. Just look at our world Someone, will try to fill that void eventually and even best case sunaro the world is facing decides of soical conflict and unrest as it adapt
It feels like the campaign is adding so many freaking opinions and view points that the party is in analysis paralysis. It’s a big decision and all but it’s starting to feel ridiculous. At this point I just want it to be done with. Also, feels like it’s a given at this point that the gods are gonna be chased away. Just from a practical viewpoint of the gang moving away from 5e and stuff. Lot of uncertain stuff but some things seem inevitable.
Honestly, the Wild Mother. If they can't tear down the divine gate unless the decision is unanimous, then there's no point in listening to the Archheart. Fight as the Wild Mother said and then whatever comes of that is whatever. Though I am curious of what the Changebringer thinks considering she was talking to FCG heavily before his death.
@@3veraj that’s actually a good point if the gods need to agree then he’s lying about them setting in once the time is right they can’t if he doesn’t agree very interesting and I think they need to have a chat with the change bringer
@@3veraj the more people comment about this the more I’m starting to agree it just makes sense especially with how asmodues wants the same thing as the arch heart so he can keep exandria
I agree mostly with the archheart and raven queen it’s time to stop the pointless cycle of people rebelling and challenging the gods then thousands die on both sides except the gods and they stay safe Plus 1. Divine magic can and has been used without gods help 2. If there’s a power vaccum and someone powerful tries to take over they won’t be a god they will be a mortal and mortals can be killed were as the gods they can’t be touched 3. If they don’t release predathos it will be calamity 2.0 all over again and all the gods will be free so I don’t know why everyone is missing that part
@@absurdus7945 the issue with the last part is the raven queen said they all need to be in agreement to take the gate down so that means if they don’t agree there’s no way for there to be a calamity
The fact that Vecna exists kind of destroys point 2. He didn’t supplant a god, he just became one. What’s stopping another mortal from following in his footsteps?
@@flamenami I’ve been asking myself this recently cause it’s true vecna did do it the raven queen claimed it’s not possible but it happened 36 years ago
@@ZodiacBandit one of the only reasons vecna could be stopped was cuz the primes helped vm. Without the prime gods keeping evil gods in check, any mortal that ascends after predathos has left chasing after the gods will be able to rule uncontested.
What if part of becoming a god is receiving sacrifice from your faithful. Vecna had people blind themselves and amputate a hand. What if the Matron set the Calamity in motion as a sacrifice. Being a high ranking mage, she had the knowledge and control of her servants enough to pull it off.
I personally believe the gods don’t deserve to stay. They did to much evil/facilitated to much evil, primes and betrayers alike. But, if they find a way to rework the power structure, but have the gods stay, lucky break for them. If it’ll lead to placing the gods into actual servitude for mortals, maybe that will be justice. All I know is that they don’t deserve to keep their throne. And it best should be dismantled so no one can sit upon it
What evils have the Prime Deities committed though? At almost every known instance they have sided with or been a boon to mortals even if their motives weren't strictly altruistic. Aeor's destruction was an act of self preservation, not evil. And the great evils of the world were committed by mortals. If that's where you take issue, consider this: if the Primes stopped evil deeds from happening at every turn, then they would be tyrants for taking away free will.
Could Asmodeus be impersonating the Archheart or something like that? I think Sam would relish the character moment and might flip a coin to make the choice if it comes to it.
@@Banquet42 there’s a chance but then that means he knows about the matrons plans and could spill it something tells me he would have already to insight war between gods
I doubt it. In one of the post-game videos (either between the sheets or whatever the other one is) Abu and Matt confirmed it was the Archheart fully. No deception. Though, could be lying...but I doubt that.
@@matthewlaird5235 out of all the options I hope they go with the raven queens idea to restructure the way their relationships are with the gods to make it so they are helpful and not overbearing
I am not sure if either of the gods is "right" on their own, because in my opinion all three must happen. So in essence Gods have to help mortals, but this time without interfering in mortal decisions and thus removing themselves from the equation. But I like the theory that Braius will be pushed by the Lord of Hells to betray (showing a fourth way that is far less benevolent than even what the Prime Deities considering) only for the whole party and all of the Prime Deities getting sudden unwanted rear love from Asmodeus (as that would be so in character for that Betrayer), starting the redemption arc for Braius and a final act of the campaign. However, I would also love to see more divine perspective on the whole situation from Platinum Dragon, Stormlord, Allhammer, Lawbringer, Moonweaver, Everlight and Changebringer. Because I have a feeling that the might not be as keen on starting another Calamity as they were portrayed to.
I wish they would go for the archearts plan. Because imagine after 10 years of critical role of always being the good guys and at what people are theorizing could be the end of Exandria. We go out on the evil or morally grey choice have the consequence of the gods choice not to leave catch up to them. And if after Exandria is just completely gone or a new world is built on its remains build on the idea of the gods failures in the next world and try to improve them.
I'm of the opinion that whomever Ashton (the character, not the player) sides with is the exact WRONG side to be on. Dorian too for that matter. Those two's positions cones from a place of bitterness and spite, they may dress up the reasoning, but it's almost purely an emotional reason, and not a healthy one either. Chetney and Laudna are probably the most level headed about this situation, and both have unique perspectives. They are both by far the oldest of the group and came from different backgrounds, Chetney was around for the tail end of Calamity and saw firsthand the destruction bith gods and mortal were capable of, Laudna was the victim of one of the cruelist mortals on Exandria and received no special attention from the gods. Frankly, if they are notbthe voices with most weight right now, then a huge opportunity was missed.
@@nojusticenetwork9309 I agree they aren’t looking at it through the eyes of thousands of other people they are thinking about themselves what would Ashton do if FCG were there it wouldn’t be this
@@nojusticenetwork9309 the exact same argument would go for Orym though… Some would call it bitterness and spite, others might call it righteous fury. Orym was wronged by Ludinus. Currently the only thing he cares about is ending him, no matter the cost. Ashton and Dorian have been wronged by the gods. In fact thousands if not millions have been wronged by the gods. Is what the Dawnfather did to the indigenous people of Issylra, which Ashton, Laudna, and Orym for that matter did right? Was it right for the gods to abandon Ashton in childhood? Was it right for the Wildmother to stand idly by as the Spider Queen killed Cyrus, because it also served her interest of survival? Don’t they deserve bitterness, don’t they deserve spite, don’t they deserve rightful fury for such actions? Because, as a matter of fact, all these feelings can stem from a place of empathy and love
@@alexfirefly1956 but you noticed how I didn't mention Orym right? I said Chetney and Laudna are likely the most level-headed here. And the rest of what you're saying is a "what aboutism" argument. Ashton was experimented on by a crazy elemental cult that actively OPPOSED the gods that resulted in him becoming a genasi. Dorian was not directly or even directly harmed by the gods, Cyrus was killed by a servant of the Spider Queen, yes, but need I remind that this was a Betrayer God - a faction of the pantheon that actively hates humanity and tried to wipe them out? What could the Wildmother do in that situation? Her domain is nature, kill or be killed/predator and prey, her domain insists on a balance and the Crownkeepers were actively walking a tightrope keeping an artifact of a Betrayer around them, at some point personal accountability haa to take place. What the worshippers of the Dawnfather were doing in Isslyra was indeed morally questionable but it was response to the growing threat to Ludinus and Predathos. Actively trying to solve for a problem that was happening in real time. And to go back to Orym, of those grieving about an injustice or great wrong visited upon them, Orym is doing the CORRECT thing and blaming the actual people at fault. Otohan killed Orym's husband carrying out an order set by Ludinus. He places the blame solely on the people responsible for his blame and isn't trying to make blanket statements for an entire group. So no, Ashton and Dorian are not deserving of lashing out like children at those who did not actually do them wrong. If Ashton wants to be mad at anyone, be mad at the cult who made him or the team that abandoned him. If Dorian has anyone to blame for his brother's death, it's the Spider Queen, not the Prime Deities. For all the bad you may wish to claim the gods are responsible for, don't think I can't pull out receipts for the good they've done.
@ZodiacBandit bells hells is so focused on perdathos and what to do about the Gods they are forgetting a couple of facts if the Gods are chased off. 1. Tharizdun is in the abyss sleeping perdathos could release him or eat and change completely due to the shard of evil. 2. Arch devils demonlords angels archfey could be ignored and left behind therefore a power struggle ownership of domains and power. 3. Will primordials and titans be reborn and reestablish dominance 4. Will arcane abilities remain or a form of the spell plague occur
@ZodiacBandit true and part of that would be for future plots hook and one shots I'm just pointing out the normal tunnel vision mindset due to the events
@@ZodiacBanditLet's be realistic though, none of the characters in Campaign 3 are inclined or thoughtful enough to consider the long term ramifications of either binary outcome. The fact that all the documented mass extinction events are a culmination of mortal hubris and a desire to be worshipped is an indication of not what 'might' happen but what 'will' happen once the gods leave - one way or another. Wizard cabals have already inserted themselves as the true political power everywhere and the gods already removed themselves from direct involvement in mortal affairs. At this point, they're pretty much just an 'in case of emergency break glass fire axe' to prevent wizards and sorcerers from setting themselves up as a new dynasty of immortal and unkillable tyrants who will do to the general populace what they accuse the gods of doing. (Accuse the other side of your actual activities in order to deflect accountability.). I'm personally of the opinion that the gods should approach everyone and ask each individual if they want to remain without the gods' continued presence, or take them to another world and leave Exandria to those who want to stay. If they're benevolent, they'd strip away ALL magic so some other a-hole like Ludinus doesn't flood the world with an army of demons within the next year. Or give 'everyone' who isn't a magic user already wizard or sorcerous spellcasting capability up to level 7 or so. And then be done with it.
I dont understand why its the Archheart and not the Changebringer. Ya know. The god of change, and the only god the party had anything to do with for 90% or the campaign. If she asked a favour the party might actually listen, if at least for FCG
@@RatShadows I think it’s mostly based on what Silaha did in downfall and how the changebringer was with fcg she seems keen to keep things the way they are weirdly
I think if the Changebringer spoke to them directly then it might influence their choice because of FCG and Matt is sidestepping that?
The Changebringer's presence in the campaign was minimal at best and FCG's connection to them was fickle. Sam/FCG didn't show any real interest in following a god until around the time of the Ruidus plot started unfolding and it was mostly played for laughs. When he DID try to take it more seriously, it was to try and get definitive answers about if the gods are good or should be saved.
If anything, having the Changebringer show up would likely have the party asking the obvious question of why didn't FCG's god save him or bring him back and considering Matt can't just say "Because that wouldn't be good for the story or player fun" (the GM answer) it will be something either something vague or infuriating that will steer the party in a direction they may not have otherwise taken.
First, simply for the meta reason that Abubakar was available and had played the Archheart in the Downfall arc. But also because they were the god that showed both the most compassion for mortals, and the least interest in interfering with them.
The better question is, why was it the Raven Queen instead of the Changebringer? I made a prediction of who the second was at the end of the conversation with the Archheart. From least to most, the ones that I felt were likely:
Asmodeus - you can't trust him.
Wildmother - she's too connected to Exandria.
Platinum Dragon - We don't know much about him(?), but he seems pretty set on defeating Ludinus and preserving the status quo.
Matron - she fought too hard to be a god, and didn't give any indication that she was ready to give that up.
Dawnfather - too stubborn, but of the least likely, he seems the most likely to listen to reason.
Kord - similar to Dawnfather, I think he's too much of a fighter, and would view it as giving up, but he's also wise and honorable.
Moonweaver - she's not really connected to Exandria, and as a god of tides, she also likely to recognize the need for change, as change is in her nature. Plus as a trickster, setting Predathos free and driving the gods away sounds like a fun trick.
All-Hammer - As a god of creation, I think he's likely to be similar to Archheart.
Everlight - If you can convince her that the gods staying does more harm than good, she would leave.
Lawbearer - They were one of the first to propose the divine gate in the first place.
Ioun - She has the wisdom to see the necessity of the gods leaving.
Changebringer - Change is in her name.
To be fair, the Archheart and the Raven Queen are the only ones each other know believe it. Changebringer is a bit chaotic, so perhaps their point or idea is a little hard to pin down. I think she'd be down, due to her tenants, or at least down for the Raven Queens idea of the people choosing/accepting them but making new rules for their relationship. Either that or, if people said to her they wanted that, she would also be down.
Alternatively though, I can also see why they would side with the Prime, as their second tenant "Change is inevitable. The righteous can ensure that such change is for the better." kinda seems to me like they believe that they (and the people of the World) can make sure the Prime (and by extention, the Betrayers) next actions can be for the better rather than the worse, without leaving the world or being eaten.
For me, I'm firmly against the Arch Heart, mainly because of the ways their going about this (for me they're the closest Prime God to being a Betrayer). In one of your other videos I left a massive comment going into that.
The Wildmother I can see where she's coming from, it's strange seeing a Nature god afraid of evolution and change, but with how dangerous Predathos is I can understand why. Keeping things as they are sounds a lot better than everything burning to the ground and dying.
The Matron has a decent argument, she's a bit too willing to pack up and leave for a god that was once mortal but I like that she's leaving the choice to Exandria for what's happening. The best outcome is Predathos being stopped and a new dynamic forms where the gods act more benevolent and serve Exandria lovingly. So I'm on her side, but leaning more towards Wildmother on the scale.
I will add though that a lot of the arguments in favour of the gods leaving leave a few things out. Will Predathos really ignore the easy meal that is Exandria? Maybe (not a good enough answer). Won't new beings just fill in the power vacuum left by the gods? Won't clerics and paladins and other devout Exandrian's feel abandoned and betrayed if they leave? And isn't the main problem with "Exandrian's Choosing" that evil wizards will mess things up (every issue in Exandria's history after the Schism is a direct result of wizards being egomaniacs: Vecna, Laerryn, Ludinus, Vespen Cloris, Raishan (knew magic and freed Thordak), Delilah, Cererbus Assembly, Aeor, Avilir, the Age of Arcanum as a whole)?
Yeah, the God's shouldn't leave unless it's literally - definitively - the last option they have.
@@matthewmccann-willis162 I genuinely don’t think it’s reasonable to just out the gods to many things are unknown at this moment
@@ZodiacBandit exactly
I think the Matron is like that because they were mortal and they are possibly weary of being a God but feels like they are needed.
/BARF
So is the only option to keep the status quo? Let unjust, hypocritical, basically all-powerful rulers keep ruling instead of changing anything?
This is a tuff decision 😅 it all depends on people’s opinions and beliefs in the end and the matron is right the people should choose and not the gods this time. But who knows what Matt has in plan for the end, it’s so exciting to not know what’s going to happen!
I agree with the Matron. The Gods need to leave but it is the people's choice.
@@angelsmilkyway4352 I think a balance between them can be struck so the gods are helpful but not depended on by the people
@@ZodiacBanditMaybe instead of using predathos to chase or kill
Use it as a nuclear Deterrent
@@absurdus7945 I see what you’re saying but I’m not a fan of that idea in real life lmao
Out of the three, the raven queen is the one I trust the most. She's atleast willing to answer for her actions. She's willing to stay behind and face the end. Just like the previous god of death did
The wild mother I understand also, she's likly the most invested in life and the most aware that nature apores a vacuum
Something no one has thought about. Even if the gods leave peacefully and so dose podarous and luda is betten
After even if the gods leave doesn't remove the desire for God. Just look at our world
Someone, will try to fill that void eventually and even best case sunaro the world is facing decides of soical conflict and unrest as it adapt
It feels like the campaign is adding so many freaking opinions and view points that the party is in analysis paralysis. It’s a big decision and all but it’s starting to feel ridiculous. At this point I just want it to be done with. Also, feels like it’s a given at this point that the gods are gonna be chased away. Just from a practical viewpoint of the gang moving away from 5e and stuff. Lot of uncertain stuff but some things seem inevitable.
@@zero3045 yea it’s a big choice to basically change the world it’s a lot of pressure
Honestly, the Wild Mother. If they can't tear down the divine gate unless the decision is unanimous, then there's no point in listening to the Archheart. Fight as the Wild Mother said and then whatever comes of that is whatever. Though I am curious of what the Changebringer thinks considering she was talking to FCG heavily before his death.
@@3veraj that’s actually a good point if the gods need to agree then he’s lying about them setting in once the time is right they can’t if he doesn’t agree very interesting and I think they need to have a chat with the change bringer
@@ZodiacBandit Exactly. Lying like say... the Lord of lies?
@@3veraj the more people comment about this the more I’m starting to agree it just makes sense especially with how asmodues wants the same thing as the arch heart so he can keep exandria
I agree mostly with the archheart and raven queen it’s time to stop the pointless cycle of people rebelling and challenging the gods then thousands die on both sides except the gods and they stay safe
Plus
1. Divine magic can and has been used without gods help
2. If there’s a power vaccum and someone powerful tries to take over they won’t be a god they will be a mortal and mortals can be killed were as the gods they can’t be touched
3. If they don’t release predathos it will be calamity 2.0 all over again and all the gods will be free so I don’t know why everyone is missing that part
@@absurdus7945 the issue with the last part is the raven queen said they all need to be in agreement to take the gate down so that means if they don’t agree there’s no way for there to be a calamity
The fact that Vecna exists kind of destroys point 2. He didn’t supplant a god, he just became one. What’s stopping another mortal from following in his footsteps?
@@flamenami I’ve been asking myself this recently cause it’s true vecna did do it the raven queen claimed it’s not possible but it happened 36 years ago
@@ZodiacBandit one of the only reasons vecna could be stopped was cuz the primes helped vm. Without the prime gods keeping evil gods in check, any mortal that ascends after predathos has left chasing after the gods will be able to rule uncontested.
What if part of becoming a god is receiving sacrifice from your faithful. Vecna had people blind themselves and amputate a hand. What if the Matron set the Calamity in motion as a sacrifice. Being a high ranking mage, she had the knowledge and control of her servants enough to pull it off.
I personally believe the gods don’t deserve to stay. They did to much evil/facilitated to much evil, primes and betrayers alike. But, if they find a way to rework the power structure, but have the gods stay, lucky break for them. If it’ll lead to placing the gods into actual servitude for mortals, maybe that will be justice. All I know is that they don’t deserve to keep their throne. And it best should be dismantled so no one can sit upon it
What evils have the Prime Deities committed though? At almost every known instance they have sided with or been a boon to mortals even if their motives weren't strictly altruistic. Aeor's destruction was an act of self preservation, not evil. And the great evils of the world were committed by mortals.
If that's where you take issue, consider this: if the Primes stopped evil deeds from happening at every turn, then they would be tyrants for taking away free will.
I’m sorry but what exactly did the primes do that was evil besides destroy magic North Korea?
Could Asmodeus be impersonating the Archheart or something like that? I think Sam would relish the character moment and might flip a coin to make the choice if it comes to it.
@@Banquet42 there’s a chance but then that means he knows about the matrons plans and could spill it something tells me he would have already to insight war between gods
@@ZodiacBanditbecause who would doubt the god of lies?
@@zero3045 good point lol
I doubt it. In one of the post-game videos (either between the sheets or whatever the other one is) Abu and Matt confirmed it was the Archheart fully. No deception. Though, could be lying...but I doubt that.
@@nickmoore6861 until it’s stated in game I won’t believe it there’s been many times minds have changed
Everyone has their own favorite flavor. Who’s right? Everyone has their opinion.
@@matthewlaird5235 out of all the options I hope they go with the raven queens idea to restructure the way their relationships are with the gods to make it so they are helpful and not overbearing
@@ZodiacBandit You are a wise man, this is the best option.
The Traveller.
Also, has anyone asked Prodothos? Maybe they're happy where they are?
@@Banquet42 I like the optimism here but sometimes tells me the god eater isn’t happy lol
I am not sure if either of the gods is "right" on their own, because in my opinion all three must happen. So in essence Gods have to help mortals, but this time without interfering in mortal decisions and thus removing themselves from the equation.
But I like the theory that Braius will be pushed by the Lord of Hells to betray (showing a fourth way that is far less benevolent than even what the Prime Deities considering) only for the whole party and all of the Prime Deities getting sudden unwanted rear love from Asmodeus (as that would be so in character for that Betrayer), starting the redemption arc for Braius and a final act of the campaign.
However, I would also love to see more divine perspective on the whole situation from Platinum Dragon, Stormlord, Allhammer, Lawbringer, Moonweaver, Everlight and Changebringer. Because I have a feeling that the might not be as keen on starting another Calamity as they were portrayed to.
I wish they would go for the archearts plan. Because imagine after 10 years of critical role of always being the good guys and at what people are theorizing could be the end of Exandria. We go out on the evil or morally grey choice have the consequence of the gods choice not to leave catch up to them. And if after Exandria is just completely gone or a new world is built on its remains build on the idea of the gods failures in the next world and try to improve them.
I'm of the opinion that whomever Ashton (the character, not the player) sides with is the exact WRONG side to be on. Dorian too for that matter. Those two's positions cones from a place of bitterness and spite, they may dress up the reasoning, but it's almost purely an emotional reason, and not a healthy one either.
Chetney and Laudna are probably the most level headed about this situation, and both have unique perspectives. They are both by far the oldest of the group and came from different backgrounds, Chetney was around for the tail end of Calamity and saw firsthand the destruction bith gods and mortal were capable of, Laudna was the victim of one of the cruelist mortals on Exandria and received no special attention from the gods. Frankly, if they are notbthe voices with most weight right now, then a huge opportunity was missed.
@@nojusticenetwork9309 I agree they aren’t looking at it through the eyes of thousands of other people they are thinking about themselves what would Ashton do if FCG were there it wouldn’t be this
@@nojusticenetwork9309 the exact same argument would go for Orym though…
Some would call it bitterness and spite, others might call it righteous fury. Orym was wronged by Ludinus. Currently the only thing he cares about is ending him, no matter the cost. Ashton and Dorian have been wronged by the gods. In fact thousands if not millions have been wronged by the gods. Is what the Dawnfather did to the indigenous people of Issylra, which Ashton, Laudna, and Orym for that matter did right? Was it right for the gods to abandon Ashton in childhood? Was it right for the Wildmother to stand idly by as the Spider Queen killed Cyrus, because it also served her interest of survival? Don’t they deserve bitterness, don’t they deserve spite, don’t they deserve rightful fury for such actions? Because, as a matter of fact, all these feelings can stem from a place of empathy and love
@@alexfirefly1956 but you noticed how I didn't mention Orym right? I said Chetney and Laudna are likely the most level-headed here. And the rest of what you're saying is a "what aboutism" argument. Ashton was experimented on by a crazy elemental cult that actively OPPOSED the gods that resulted in him becoming a genasi. Dorian was not directly or even directly harmed by the gods, Cyrus was killed by a servant of the Spider Queen, yes, but need I remind that this was a Betrayer God - a faction of the pantheon that actively hates humanity and tried to wipe them out? What could the Wildmother do in that situation? Her domain is nature, kill or be killed/predator and prey, her domain insists on a balance and the Crownkeepers were actively walking a tightrope keeping an artifact of a Betrayer around them, at some point personal accountability haa to take place. What the worshippers of the Dawnfather were doing in Isslyra was indeed morally questionable but it was response to the growing threat to Ludinus and Predathos. Actively trying to solve for a problem that was happening in real time.
And to go back to Orym, of those grieving about an injustice or great wrong visited upon them, Orym is doing the CORRECT thing and blaming the actual people at fault. Otohan killed Orym's husband carrying out an order set by Ludinus. He places the blame solely on the people responsible for his blame and isn't trying to make blanket statements for an entire group. So no, Ashton and Dorian are not deserving of lashing out like children at those who did not actually do them wrong. If Ashton wants to be mad at anyone, be mad at the cult who made him or the team that abandoned him. If Dorian has anyone to blame for his brother's death, it's the Spider Queen, not the Prime Deities. For all the bad you may wish to claim the gods are responsible for, don't think I can't pull out receipts for the good they've done.
Braius also communed with Asmodeus
@@basketballjuice i suggest watch the whole video my friend
Asmodeus was right and he will find a way to remain and trap the other Gods minus the raven queen
@@adambaldinger4507 I genuinely think it would be interesting to see him kinda winning and campaign 4 be some sort of fight against him
@ZodiacBandit bells hells is so focused on perdathos and what to do about the Gods they are forgetting a couple of facts if the Gods are chased off. 1. Tharizdun is in the abyss sleeping perdathos could release him or eat and change completely due to the shard of evil.
2. Arch devils demonlords angels archfey could be ignored and left behind therefore a power struggle ownership of domains and power.
3. Will primordials and titans be reborn and reestablish dominance
4. Will arcane abilities remain or a form of the spell plague occur
@@adambaldinger4507 these are all questions that should get asked but probably won’t be answered
@ZodiacBandit true and part of that would be for future plots hook and one shots I'm just pointing out the normal tunnel vision mindset due to the events
@@ZodiacBanditLet's be realistic though, none of the characters in Campaign 3 are inclined or thoughtful enough to consider the long term ramifications of either binary outcome. The fact that all the documented mass extinction events are a culmination of mortal hubris and a desire to be worshipped is an indication of not what 'might' happen but what 'will' happen once the gods leave - one way or another. Wizard cabals have already inserted themselves as the true political power everywhere and the gods already removed themselves from direct involvement in mortal affairs. At this point, they're pretty much just an 'in case of emergency break glass fire axe' to prevent wizards and sorcerers from setting themselves up as a new dynasty of immortal and unkillable tyrants who will do to the general populace what they accuse the gods of doing. (Accuse the other side of your actual activities in order to deflect accountability.).
I'm personally of the opinion that the gods should approach everyone and ask each individual if they want to remain without the gods' continued presence, or take them to another world and leave Exandria to those who want to stay. If they're benevolent, they'd strip away ALL magic so some other a-hole like Ludinus doesn't flood the world with an army of demons within the next year. Or give 'everyone' who isn't a magic user already wizard or sorcerous spellcasting capability up to level 7 or so. And then be done with it.
Misleading title I wanted some rabbithole lore mixed with satirical debates not your OCs
Id love to see the gods go. They're trash and gotta leave