Isn’t that the truth. Those types of people are nothing more than a POS and unfortunately they are broken as well as empaths are supposed to show kindness towards them when they don’t deserve it due to the cruelty and trauma that they have caused.
You will be told you are being "selfish, disloyal, difficult, entitled, unstable, ungrateful ..." if you are a scapegoat who dares assert himself/herself.
So glad! Good for you!!! One thing I've discovered is that I must enjoy the time when I am strong. Because the weakness will come back and demand attention again.
I'm seeing the scapegoat as a goat named scapes that I need to sell because I can't keep this 🐐 goat .... Scapes is not house broken and it came from my mother's house .... anyone want to buy this goat????😅
Just had three years of therapy undone by visiting my parents for Christmas and catching COVID while I was there. COVID put me into a weakened state, which is what they wanted. Then it was game over.
This explains some of the things I noticed even as a child that I was expected to be smart at school and stupid at home . I was expected to be supportive and compassionate to everyone else despite never experiencing this myself . Be the parent so they didn't have to .
“Smart at school and stupid at home” is a crazy dichotomy. Expected to become a critical thinker, but not critical enough to question them. Become a strong debater, able to build a good argument, but don’t dare disagree with them ?? It makes you feel crazy like somehow you were still not smart enough. I had the Golden Rule and the 10 Commandments burned into my brain while they straight up refused to follow it themselves. It makes reality all wonky.
I fantasized about getting so ill or hurt I'll need to be hospitalized. I fantasized about the care I'd receive at my hospital bed. I fantasized about compassion.
Omg my family would never help me without me being completely devastated first. So now I immediately get triggered into crying when I feel disempowered. It’s embarrassing.
My father was like this. He only offered compassion when I was doing poorly and under his complete control. Those are the only times I recall him being helpful for my well being. It's a very violating feeling because when I think back, this kind of stuff happened when I was in my 20s, I wasn't 3 years old. But whenever I did something actually good for myself, he would do things like throw me out or he would take control of the solution without giving me any input on it. It's a gross feeling because it feels feminizing for a man to go through this, like my male input wasn't valuable. It's just disgusting thinking back to it. Its sad not to have parents and bitterness eats away at me but I am glad not to have him in my life. I wish I had an actual father, or some kind of male role model that actually taught me things and encouraged me.
You described everything whats happening to me now and having to deal with it at work too its not nornal they only care for themselves and then tell you you need to improve or change and when you are doing good they say why do you think you are perfect? you are selfish and you only care about yourself and they say you are on your own and they kick you out of the house
Yes - self promotion/marketing is one of the hardest things to warm up to after being raised by a narcissist and having several long term relationships with them… the danger of drawing attention to yourself, your strengths, your wins… it just leaves you open to attack and the learned behavior is to stay small to survive.
I was always either chastised, criticized, corrected, shamed or guilted. Seemed like nothing was ever good enough. Walk straight, no slouching, dont shuffle your feet when you walk, chew with mouth closed, elbows off table, it never ended. Mother's favorite line...you lucky you even have a mother. My mother left when i was 3. Always a great video Jay. Have learned so much in last year why me childhood was so messed up.
Please understand I don't mean to try to top your pain. Can you imagine being hit with his knuckles or being dragged by your hair every time you lagged on a command or put you elbows on the table? What kind of man beats a little girl? It is unfathomable to me.
I starved my body so that my mother would finally see me suffer, and it is really hard not to want to run towards these ed tendencies whenever something bad happens
I’ve been trying to pinpoint what’s going on with me at this stage of my life. This makes perfect sense to me, “DING”. It’s safer to not shine in my own life. I see the connections more clearly now. How mixed messages from both parents, constant teasing from my siblings led me to think it was better to be invisible less jealousy less of a target. Pushed to excel by my father then punished by my mothers envy. It was an impossibly confusing conundrum of trying to self actualize while never arriving at any internal sense of satisfaction or achievement. Living someone else’s unlived dream to avoid feeling invisible. The conflict in having to “perform” for any attention at all while feeling empty living someone else’s dream. And feeling lost I escaped into alcoholism, codependency, trauma bonded in abusive relationships. Acted out all the unspoken pathology in my family of origin.
Its true, it was the only time my mother showed me any attention or "love". She loved when i was crying, down or sick. It literally lasted only a few minutes though.
I'm not sure if my dad is narcissistic or not but he never shows any compassion. If I'm doing well or doing badly, he just sort of stares at me when I share anything of that sort with him. Or he could be really quite horrible if he ever upset me. He can't bear emotion, seems to see it as a weakness. That utter lack of any form of care or concern has had such a profound effect on me I definitely struggle a lot with shame and feeling like there's something wrong with me. Horrible legacy to work through.
Sounds as though he could have a dismissive avoidant attachment style. (Could also be narcissistic along with it). Look up dismissive avoidant attachment styles. These people hate any type of emotional intimacy. They think of any type of negative emotion as weak and think everyone should be able to sort their own problems out. My family were DA and so is my husband. They can be highly narcissistic along with it.
I’m also the ND scapegoat of my family. It absolutely makes our situation and suffering so much harder and more damaging than if a neurotypical had suffered this type of abuse.
Exactly...... I just found out at 31 and now it's like all flooding back... the things I endured BECAUSE I'm autistic.... but somehow I'm supposed to believe that my malignant narcissist mother had no clue whatsoever even though it also took me asking her to take me to the doctor for depression for 2 years before she actually did. Looking back, if I could watch my child-self watch TV, rocking away furiously in my TV chair, or hitting myself in the face because I was "stressed out," yeah, there's no way I wouldn't have at least considered it..... I mean, come on....
As a child, I always wanted to be in a wheelchair. I thought that was abnormal. But that was to get attention and compassion. Hearing this message in a video, is so crasy. Like Jay Ried knows my entire Life feelings and putting it into words. It's incredible.
As a child I was in intense pain in both knees. When I actually got my Mom to get me medical treatment. The orthopedic surgeon said....She needs surgery. My Mom said when. He said "10 years ago" 😢 Once I healed my Mom hated me. She just passed. I can't make sense. I'm also a survivor of sex and labor trafficking. I 😢finally got a hold of her with a phone I found. She said loudly. You GOT yourself in. ..get yourself out. 😢
And I pretended to be going blind for a while! (Explained in my family as "just wanting attention," which is sort of true, if you take away the "just".)
I tried to get my sisters to break my legs How horrible we went through this The abuse parents put on children It is comforting to know I wasn’t alone going through parental abuse
Some of us didn’t even get the compassion in positions of weakness either. But I do know of examples that can often be experienced in adulthood, regardless of upbringing, and that’s with frenemies. True friends are supportive during your hardships and cheer you on when you share your successes. With frenemies, they may be there to commiserate with, but won’t be happy for your triumphs, due to their envy or insecurity. Like “Lawrence “, I’ve found myself testing others to see whether they really accept me knowing my shortcomings as well as the assets.
Does this "Frenemies also scapegoat us? Because they think you are dumb, just because we are emotional due to high trauma response & our rational brains aren't used" After smear campaigns & betraying me one of the narcissist snake frenemies claims, she has no jealousy with me, is it true that we are just worthless & deserves to be disrespected and dumb in their eyes and it is not their jealousy
This video inspired me to go onto my totally empty LinkedIn profile and add to it the details of a project I worked on at work. Showcasing my programming skills. I'm trying to be strong, instead of just small and weak, you know? It's so damn hard! But still, a solid step for me.
The best compliment i got from my narcissistic dad was "everyone is saying good things about you, i don't know what they're talking about" triggered him by trying to impress him, definitely a narcissist
The weird thing is that I figured this out as a nine year old when the scapegoating and the associated trauma bonding started. I would always be attacked whenever I showed happiness and playfulness.
Well well, this one really hit home. I'm actually nauseous over the 'Lawrence' story. (I felt it deeply and was horrified at him having to 'sell' himself. The 'dignity' excuse, wow; I have the same issue. I'm literally grimacing as I type this.) My mind is going to a time when, recently graduated high school, my dad would make me get up early and just sit there. Didn't matter what I did, but I had to be out of bed by 830a. He'd visit my room frequently at night, so I never was able to sleep well. So this was the '70s and I had a brand new magazine, first of its kind, "Women's Sports". I was sitting at the kitchen table one morning reading it, so excited at embarking on a new fitness journey. He came over, picked it up, and beat the living daylights outa me, shredding the mag nearly into confetti. I came looking for help with self-sabotage and found this channel, among others. I think we're over the target now. Btw, as far as 'standing up'... I'm actually so self-sabotaged that I'm in a wheelchair a good portion of the day. I know what to do to get better (diet, assistive devices, pacing) but always mess it up when I begin to succeed. 😳😁
Oh. So that's what it is. I've been blaming myself for my lack of success for my entire adult life. Finally here's the explanation, so simple like that.
Thank you Jay, you're so right about everything. Its so very true. I got C-Ptsd from the abuse. I am 47 female who is the oldest out of five children my parents had. I always been the black sheep in my family. Both of my parents are Narcissists. My brothers and sisters are Narcissists Enablers. I went to Jesus cause of the abuse. I know my worth and values. My peace comes from God. Jesus is our hope. God is Love. God is great all the time.I been a Christian for over ten years. I got support my friends from church.
I am the same - from an abusive house where I was the scapegoat - i have cptsd too and I became a Christian from all my siblings Praise and thank the Lord you are saved and will be with Jesus for eternity. A lot of times God chooses & saves those who are abused and looked down upon and who are put down. It is worth the abuse to end up with Jesus for eternity 🙏🏻❤️ I now sometimes feel sorry for the abusers if they don’t turn from their sin to Jesus because if they reject His free gift of salvation they will be punished severely forever - especially for their cruelty to children Only God got me through everything (married to a very abusive cruel sinful man who faked being a Christian) You are so right God is our peace Jesus is our Hope 🙏🏻❤️
My disgusting narcissistic father THRIVED on this. He loved making me feel worthless and inferior and ashamed and deserving of punishment. I was FORCED to feel this way in order to receive any breadcrumbs of kindness, compassion, or generosity. Then and only then (when I was successfully weakened/broken down) would I receive breadcrumbs of support (usually in the form of financial help in a survival crisis). I also noticed that he DEEPLY resented seeing me shine in my gifts and talents, especially when he couldn’t take credit for them. For example, my talent for singing grated my narcissistic father’s nerves. He HATED hearing me sing and being confronted by how talented I was. One time, while I was joyfully singing around the house, he slammed the door in disgust and frustration as he stormed into the other room. He couldn’t STAND hearing me sing and shine bright as the superstar he knew I am. The only time he would ever show me a breadcrumb of support or fake kindness would be when he thought he could directly benefit from it/take credit for it to his peers. But at the end of the day, it was still ALWAYS about him, and you could tangibly feel how much he hated seeing me in my power.
This resonates with me. I got the lead role in a musical in high school and when my narc parents came to see me, my father just went on and on about how good of a singer some other girl was and didn't say a word about my performance. I was so hurt. They devalue you for being uniquely impressive because it's not about them being impressive. You aren't allowed to matter on your own terms. Living in rebellion and being MAGNIFICENT is the Elixer.
Absolutely. Tell them nothing. They denigrate your good experiences and taint them. Fake sympathy over bad experiences or shame you and or laugh behind your back. I am trying to go no contact.
Im surviving narcs abuse at work and at home its so much to deal with when they force you to do things and you know everyone is a narc they keep gaslight me even when i set boundaries
I would deeply appreciate if you could explore this subtle topic more in future videos. and perhaps add links to additional research and resources so we can deep-dive into this dynamic
Wow, this explains so much. I grew up with this dynamic, married this dynamic and passed this apperently to my kids. They are all grown ups, nobody is celebrating their success openly
For scapegoats working to introspect on how this could apply to your life, there are so many ways!! I initially thought “this might not be my personal experience” because I was forced into hyper independence and performance on both physical and emotional processing levels- and I have been punished by the abusers for becoming disabled and my abilities changing; this kind of situation isn’t so straightforward on the surface in terms of how weakness is reinforced and strength is punished. Instead, these concepts in the videos can apply in various ways: like, you had to be weaker in terms of expressing/actionably upholding your values, being submissive to authority on practical and even intellectual levels, and this can apply about decision making. Plus, even if you have been hyper independent and a high achiever like I was, then perhaps this still applies: like, there are acceptable and unacceptable levels of success in the household- and, as indicated by my present experiences of abuse for being disabled, there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of being “weak” or dependent.I’m not a licensed and professional psychologist to parse out how this functions, but just wanted to comment beneath this great video in case people might need examples of how this can apply in different situations!
Yes, it is true you are getting abused for being disabled/with rare genetics conditions/health issues and in this vulnerable state you will get "used" by a covert narcissist mother/family/parents in the most dangerous way, it is beyond worse than getting murdered! You are killed but your body stays alive, but can I ask you, "How hyper Independencey can benefits us or will astray us? You have all the 💯 chance & vulnerability to become a scapegoat again outside the home as well, i am thinking of leaving this narcissistic house & narcissist relatives both are highly toxic in my life, where I am subjected to be a scapegoat, will I become hyper Independent again as I was before for 5years (OVER GIVING and codependency) and how does a hyper independent life looks like, especially if you are a girl
This can also happen if you grew up with a BPD parent. My grandma (uBPD) caused my mom to behave like this to the point that my mom developed BPD too, but she's the Waif archetype (basically stuck in the weakened victim state because it feels safe for her bc it's all she knew growing up)
What is uBPD, AND WHY it CANNOT HAPPEN FROM Covert narcissistic parents, How can a person develop BPD and not be born with it Is it true that "BPD have higher consciousness but aren't born with intellect, both consciousness and intelligence" Both have 0% correlations, as claimed by "JORDON PETERSON"?
Thank you so much for your videos! They are life saving, life changing for me. I finally understand why I self sabotage almost everything I do atfer months and month of work and invested energy. Finally makes sense! Thank you so much! ❤️❤️❤️🙏
All of these questions at the beginning of videos, I answer yes to every one. They are all accurate depictions of my experience, some that i have never been able to even verbalize. These particular ones are really key to understanding the scapegoat - avoident attachment connection. Thank you so much
Hi Jay, do you think you could do a video on how scapegoat challenges within friendships? It’s been really difficult to navigate especially when realizing so many of my relationships resemble my family of origin. Perhaps even elaborating on what those experiences may be like while you’re in them as a scapegoat and what may be some hiccups when discovering all of this and wanting to break free? I am just not sure if due to trauma my expectations are outlandish or if their genuine and I’m just used to normalizing dysfunction that it feels wrong and selfish of me..
Brianna, could you share more about friendship issues. I have concerns about them, too, and want to know if they can be related to toxic conditions growing up.
Yep. Exactly what happened to me. Thank you so much for these examples and practical breakdown. I have spent a lot of time lately understanding the narcissist. What happened to me. But it can only get me so far. Your 3 pillar model, I find extremely helpful. I am now learning to live in defiance. And your examples and practical breakdown are very helpful in that. Thank you so much!
ok now it makes sense where and when and why this tender compassionate nurturing loving side of my mom comes from..... she only seems to be able to relate to me in an unhealthy way... either commiseration, or subtle competition .... but never true love or respect... im only worthy of her respect if she herself feels magically happy in that moment... and ifshe doesnt its my fault cuz she lives thru my emotions.. she has no independent autonomous emotions herself...
This is kind of disgusting..but my "mother" volunteered for the Red Cross during the war..not because she WAS compassionate...but because her sisters and friends did...and GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION... She got to wear a uniform...they did nothing but rolled bandages but... when she wore her uniform people thought she was a nurse.. SO she began to think of herself as a nurse... In my childhood she delighted in digging glass out of my feet ( which my sisters had caused..) With a needle instead of taking me to the doctor... She LOVED MERTHIOLATE INSTEAD OF BACTINE WHICH MY FRIENDS' MOTHERS USED ( WHICH HAD A PAIN KILLER) MERTHIOLATE burned savagely.... So when ever I was sick if I stayed in bed and was quiet she loved SHAKING DOWN THE THERMOMETER AND CALLING THE DOCTOR.... BUT ONE TIME I HAD VOMITING... SHE WENT CRAZY SCREAMING AT ME FOR THE MESS I MADE... NO CHICKEN NOODLE BECAUSE SHE HAD TO WASH SHEETS ... THEN THE MOST TERRIFYING OF ALL.. I WAS SICK...FEVER..OH GOODEE..LOOKS LIKE A QUIET..NURSEY ADVENTURE... BUT I WAS TOO QUIET... SHE DID NOT THINK SO... I WAS BURNING UP...I WAS HALLUCINATING... SHE NEVER CAME TO SEE IF I NEEDED ANYTHING... ALL DAY.. MY FATHER LOOKED IN...BUT DID NOT WANT TO WAKE ME...I HEARD HIM ASK HER HOW I WAS.. "OH SHE'S FINE" I TRIED TO CALL OUT TO HIM...BUT COULDN'T SAME SCENARIO FOR 3 DAYS... NEITHER MY "MOTHER" OR SISTERS CHECKED TO SEE IF I NEEDED ANYTHING... ON THE 3RD DAY.. MY FATHER NOTICE I WAS IN THE SAME NIGHTGOWN .. HE RUSHED IN REALIZED I WAS BURNING UP...AND I WAS SEMI CONSCIOUS..HE GRABBED ME AND PUT ME IN A COOL BATH AND TOLD ME HE HAD TO BRING THE FEVER DOWN I WAS SCREAMING BECAUSE COOL WATER ON A HIGH FEVER DOES HURT... HE SLOWLY LOWERED THE WATER TEMP..IT WAS VERY PAINFUL..HE COMFORTED ME AND PUT WATER ON MY MOUTH TO GET SOME HYDRATION IN ME.. He screamed her ...and asked if she had been feeding me ...she said..She ASSUMED I was getting up at night ..because I "slept" all day.... He told her to get the doctor on the phone... When the doctor called back he told her to stay with me and not let me drown..then said..never mind..and let the water out.. He talked to the doctor..who agreed to make a house call... At the point..it was time to get a good lawyer... But in those days....this kind of insanity was not asked about and the father almost always lost in court
So sorry to hear that. My father was a doctor but was always working and I don't know if he ever saw my mother as she truly is. My mother would take care of me only when I was burning with fever and only for approval. I think she tried to poison me when I was around 11 years old. I was the only one who got a mysterious gastric infection that sent me to the emergency room. Doctors told my parents to leave me there at the hospital but they refused . I wanted to stay there. I felt safe away from her. I didn't think of it when that happened but lately, somehow got into my repertoire of nightmares.
@@quarteracreadventures855 I have no contact with any"family" for 30 years...I thought that was all I needed..but my siblings stole everything after I got her settled into a good Alzheimer's unit... I have gone through work injury and major natural disasters...I have only started working in the effects in recent years..because ONLY know is trauma being exposed.
@@Lyrielonwind WOW...sounds like Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.. U was married to a PSYCHO doctor and my sisters were nurse and respiratory therapist...ALL were patient mockers and nutcases... The resp.therapist got Hep C... BECAME A CROOKED LAWYER ..LOL I have lived behind the 8 ball all my life.. U am REALLY TRYING TO GET A DECENT LIFE BEFORE I DIE..LOL
I'm French and I graduated high school with the best score in the entire state and the equivalent of an A average. When I told my mother, her first reaction was "how many questions did you miss to get an average A+?" My parents didn't give a f*ck and wouldn't even sign my application to college in time (I was a minor) when I was headhunted by the best schools in the country. But a year earlier, my sister graduated high school and she got a big party and a 1500€ watch as a gift. OH, I forgot to mention, my sister was 4 year older than me and graduated just one year sooner than me (I'm not pointing finger at her, she did what she could, but the contrast made things worse)
Same here, I could have gone to any university with my high marks and was offered a place in the national university. My father pointed out that was an honour for me but kept to his mantra that he was only legally obliged to feed clothe and house me until I turned 18 then I had to leave because he found out I was having sex with my long-time boyfriend. He wasn't religious he just thought I was disgusting and now no one would ever want to marry me. I was the type of girl men would use and not respect. What a twit he is! I left home a day or two after turning 18 and frankly was glad to leave. Rubbish parents. You can only play the cards you're dealt in life. It has been a long road to recovery from the psychological damage and I am 65! They could not take away my intelligence though and you also have that precious gift. Rock on!
Thank you for sharing! That's awful and I'm sorry it happened to you. Totally relate to the sex thing. My mother actually suggested I had surgery to have my hymen stitched back in so that the honor of the family is safe if by miracle I managed to find a husband (her mantra for me since I was a baby girl was "God help the man who will agree to marry and have children with you" 😳 I read a comment the other day that said that we became scapegoats because they couldn't brainwash us in the first place " and that's so on spot. So rock on sista, their loss!
@@EmmA-ln9he Aaaagh! It is hard to believe another human can suggest surgery to you, and gaslight you in such a weird way about marriage! Let alone the one who is supposed to have empathy and love for you. But believe it we must as it is sadly the reality of these twisted souls. Then walk or more accurately limp away. I never realised how badly I was damaged and had poor coping skills. really other people helped me a lot. So when I was 18 and living in a share house, a man of 25 suggested to me at breakfast on a Saturday morning that everyone was out shopping, lets have sex? I said No I don't want to and you have a girlfriend anyway (she also lived there). He said it didn't matter but I continued to refuse. He then pulled a kitchen knife out of a drawer, threatened to rape me and told me to take my shirt off with the knife pressing at the top button. I started crying and mercifully he said Ok I won't rape you and left. My mother happened to visit me a week later, the first time she contacted me since I left home months ago. I started to tell her "This guy wanted sex and when I said no he pulled a knife on me" She interrupted me saying "Oh you must have provoked him" I felt like I had been knifed in the guts then. She put her nose in the air and changed the subject. For years and years I was afraid to be friendly with men, or be alone in a house with a man, in case it meant rape. I couldn't talk to anyone else about it until I was 50 and went to a therapist. I sometimes feel I was silly to believe her but I was a child and like you had been gaslit all my life about how worthless and bad I was. I left my job soon after and went fruit picking with a new boyfriend, unfortunately the season was delayed and all around people were camping on the riverside without any money for food. I rang "Mum" and asked for $20. She said No. I said Mum I'm starving! Please send money to the local Post office. She said "Oh no your father would be so angry if I did that." My boyfriend was so angry with them for not helping he said "They don't deserve you, we are going to Perth." This was the other side of Australia about 4,000 km away. Best move of my life! First we had to wait for work of course to save up fares etc. But this gave me distance from them and I wish I had never contacted them again really, but I did and although I am happily still here in Perth, just the contact through occasional visits and phone calls has been corrosive. I predictably married a narcissist and bully, one son, then divorced him after 8 years, worked hard to survive, and consciously looked for a better person to marry. I believe my guardian angel was guiding me to my new and current husband of 35 years. I can relate to Jays course so well because I was the hopeful child for so long. No more! So it has taken me so long to recover in gradual ways and not even knowing this stuff that thankfully is now available. Jays online course is working well for me. He understands on a deep psychological relatable level because he is a survivor too. Other therapists who have not been traumatised are helpful but can't really relate so well. Thank you so much for your support and sharing your story. How are you going now?
I’ve always felt like I’m in a hole in the ground. Whenever I lift my head up out of the hole my dad and brother are there with shovels beating me back down into the hole. They feel threatened when I feel confident.
Hi Jay..lovely content..i would really love to buy the kindle edition of your book, but unfortunately amazon Germany, says it is not available..do you know where in Europe I can find it? Thanks a lot 🙂
I am the same regarding my work. It is top notch but marketing is highly stressful to me. I also feel like the person in your example. The same thing with my father as your example and to an extend my mother. He had high expectations of me and now I see it was to cover his inadequacies. No compassion at all and I am very perfectionistic but not as bad as I could have been. I just realised that covering his own inadequacies was the reason for his behaviour with me from your other video. Yet on the rare occasion of communication he will fray and say how much he loves me. By rare I mean barely ever. He has never apologised for his behaviour towards me and my son yet expects us to be the opposite. I think my mother has a lot to do with this but presents a different appearance and probably because she had to for her own survival.
It is a very horrible realization that caregivers feel threatened by their own children's strength. I understand now, why I not asvertisemy professional mentor work, even I am good and can help do many people. I am deep inside carry loyalty to my parents which didn't like me seeing me succeeding. They must felt unworthy than. How immature is tgst!?!
I think Lawrence's father would have reacted overtly extreme if he found his son wss doing so well. Lawrence hopefully knew he had a choice; he could do well on the team or be abandoned by his father in the form of harrassment or throwing him out of the house. It woujd be a difficult choice. In this scenario, he would have to decide which would work for him; most likly, he would have to wait to come of age and keave his father's housr befote being free to excel, at least outwardly, but that would not stop him from thinking well of himself and taking necessary actions to improve himself in secret. Sometimes options are few, but resources might be many. 😊
The case can also be that a child’s accomplishments are used by the narcissistic parent as a way for them to show off. Do you agree? I understand this is another topic. This video just made me think of this as well. I really appreciate these videos! Thank you.
Narcissist see you as object. So if they cannot control an object they throw it off. Butt as long as it work well you simply enjoy the benefits of it without care of well being of the object ( just like you use object for example). But when the object dysfunction rarely and cannot be use you simply repair it ( care about them temporarily untill it is functional again ) .
The statement "Scapegoat Children Must Feel Weakened To Deserve Compassion" is not one I resonate with in terms of my own experience. As a rule with few exceptions neither of my parents had the capacity for ever responding to me with true compassion even when I was in a weakened vulnerable state. My mother in particular might even use that situation to mock and ridicule me. I wish I was exaggerating but I don't think I am. I didn't even know that compassion would be possible from either of them quite frankly. This is a shocking reality for me to face and fathom having lived 6 plus decades. I still have trouble believing this was reality for me. I wonder if anyone else here has a similar experience? I recently came to understand the meaning of the term Alexithymia. I wonder if this term applied to each of my parents to some degree. How can one put a description to a feeling they are not capable of feeling most of the time? Maybe I just haven't understood the statement the way it is intended.
I was chosen as golden child and then gradually became scapegoat. Because I refused to protect child predators in family the grandparent my supposed parents and my life destroyed. Talk about sick family. Shifting the roles yikes❤💔❤ can we say psychotic elders? I started question toxicity. I was also parentified and treated as a slave. And sex slave
I don't know, but if I crumpled and was weakened, my mother would come and comfort me, "Poor baby!" even if I was in my 30s. I was trained to run back to my abuser for comfort.
I've learned that with a narcissist, setting a healthy boundary only gave them fuel to further know how to push buttons. I invoke the saying to myself in such times: "I don't negotiate with terrorists."
I have struggled to start my business as I get so much attention so quickly. Then I just drop out. I have an autoimmune response to strength, financially independent and being well regarded. I’m 55 years old. When my husband looked at my elementary school records a few years ago, I discovered that I was an excellent student that scored in the 98 percentile on achievement tests. My mother made me repeat 4th grade. It was humiliating. My mother said it was because something was wrong with me but she couldn’t tell me why because, “Of the way I get.” Never in a million years did I think I was a good student and that 4th grade was my best academic year ever. I never graduated from high school and I consistently left myself in positions of weakness. I sabotaged my success. I never knew why until this video. Thank you. Still it is hard for me to accept that my mother was abusive and that she purposely penalized me for success. I’ve always felt like such an embarrassment for not being successful. I’ve never confronted her as it just seem like it could not be true. Who would do that to a child? How terrible would it be for me to accuse her?
I accused my mother of the way she treated me during my life compared to my siblings. I don't think I did it for any reason or looking for something or trying to have an explanation or apologies (I didn't get any) I just burst. I think my mind (not my will) couldn't restrain myself any longer. It was a spontaneous reaction. By the time I realized I had emptied my guts. I don't think I could have done it better or worse not even reading a list of all the misery she put me through. From them on, she declared me undercover dirty war. I'm not contact and none of my siblings supported me. It's up to you to do it or not but if you do so; be prepared, she will raised hell. Be prepared and take care because she'll play her dirtiest tricks.
Until now, I never encountered anyone else who's mother had made then repeat a grade when they didn't need to. I'm sorry that happened to you, too. Sending hugs... My mother always told me I was stupid and bad, and I believed her for way too long. She made me repeat 5th grade. I had been bullied ferociously during that year and she told me I deserved to be bullied because I was "different." The second year of 5th grade I was bullied even worse for having "flunked." I'm sure she knew that would happen. We moved just before I started 6th grade, and the kids in the new town were much nicer, and I made some friends... I just figured out this year at 60, that she's got narcissistic tendencies, and why I was her scapegoat. I think trying to talk to her about it all would not be productive. I'm concentrating on healing and getting on with life.
@bsainsbury1793 It is difficult to swallow that your mother, the person who is supposed to love, protect, nurture and be your biggest cheerleader, WANTS YOU TO FAIL...but, take it from me, this happens and you are gobsmacked the first time and little by little (with each such occurrence) accept that this is what love is. THIS IS NOT LOVE.....little children always love their parents, sadly, not all parents love their children.
You wouldn’t have to accuse her at all. Facts are facts. Tell her you found the 4th grade stats. Ask her why she held you back, when clearly you didn’t need to be. Sit back and watch her spin, rage, lie or deny. Don’t react just watch her and know that her behavior is not your behavior or because of you. Hopefully watching her reaction will make you see her clearly. I wrote down an interaction I had with my mom. I was shocked to see how comfortable she was raging at and 100% devaluing and disregarding my feelings. She would blame me and I believed her. Seeing the interaction written out factually was a game changer for me. I hope it helps you. Good luck no matter what you choose to do!
The mothers wound. Bethany Webster book can be helpful. We tend to sabotage ourselves as our caregivers sabotaged us. If you confronted her she would never admit it. But you know your truth.
I don't even know where to begin. Some culture like Chinese, where I came from, children have no rights. It's a haven for narcissistic parents to thrive. I was so objectified, my monster narc mother acted like she should get a medal for the fact that I wasn't dead yet. This may sound like an exaggeration. It's not. After I came home from being hospitalized for my suicidal attempt, I became upset because I not only lived, my attempt made my problem worse. My father came home to check on me. After he left, the monster angrily scolded me for causing him to close the shop for an hour to come home. In culture with long history of hierarchical power structure, tolerance for inhumanity is a byproduct of such environment.
Catholic Spanish cultures are somehow similar. Mothers are held as Mother Mary; you have to forgive them no matter what. Everyone will look you down for saying how cold and cruel a mother can be. It's taboo. Heretic.
@@quarteracreadventures855 Thank you. Your response really warms my heart. I immigrated to the US 40 years ago. One year after arriving here, I made my first attempt. I consider it blessing in disguise as it introduced me to therapy. Making a new life here was no picnic and I have faced my share of racism and anti-immigrant attitude. However, I'd still say I am in a more supportive environment here for the fact that there is more freedom to discuss different opinions and challenge status quo. On a more personal level, cutting off all contact with my family was the real game changer for my healing.
@@gojiberry7201 Because of my mother, I'm particularly sensitized to women-on-wowen cruelty. Like the movie "Raise the Red Lantern', I have seen female relatives from old to younger generations compete for power. It was both brutal and pathetic to watch. It's like they rather peck other hens to death for the number 2 position, while leaving the single rooster at the top. It seems like the idea of banding together to take on the number 1 rooster was simply out of their consciousness. Systemic inequality breeds very irrational behaviors.
It's not compassion, it's setting the scene to playact a role, akin to using spices and utensils while cooking: happy, happy, putting a dash of vanilla in cupcake batter, rageful, rageful, where's the spatula, who took it, dinner is burning, who ruined dinner by misplacing MY stuff, rageful rageful. It's not compassion, it's playacting and demanding the stage to be set up just right. 😞
Narc parents can't show compassion by definition. They can fake it, though. Narc parents instinctively know when love and compassion are due, and they feign pretty well, but not good enough so as to convince the children. Both my parents were experts at demoralizing me when I made my best efforts.
This is very helpful to know. I can clearly see how I self-sabotage so I stay in a weakened state. The comparison of staying on your knees to be connected to a "compassion machine" is apt. Now that I am learning to see myself differently I sure hope this will allow me the opportunity and inner strength to stand up straight and champion myself because I know I have much good and value to add to this world. As always, thank you so much, Jay for putting out all this information.
Your capacity to accurately describe the belief systems that underlies narcissistic abuse is a gift to all of us! There has so often been this gap between what I experienced and putting the dynamics into words. These abusive behaviors feel so yucky...and I've learned to trust how the body feels, but struggle to locate the core of what is happening and put it into words. Thanks Jay. That "aha" moment is like finding the pot of gold!
*Respect I'm Working To Stand Up Against Ignored Court Orders.....Having Waivering Moments with Thoughts Of Feeling Not Worth Standing Up For...*Expected Behavior Heres to Validate the Strength of Those who Feel Worthless in Conjunction to Our @bu$3rs
Dear Jay I am the mother of my beautiful adult son who was scapegoated and committed suicide. We loved each other. My son thought no one cared, and he felt hopeless. He didn't know that I I believed in him and that I also was befogged, weakened and manipulated. He was/is so authentic and kind. My son trusted me and I unknowingly put him in great danger. No one believes me that my son's father set out to destroy my son (and myself). I must admit that I am lost, bereft and numb. To the outside world the father appears to be capable, competant, a good father. Nothing could be further from the truth. My son, I believe, was pushed towards suicide. He put up with so much for so long. The vindictiveness, hostility, ruthlessness of my son's father is perplexing. The hostility and abuse was only directed to my son and myself.
I am so so so very sorry. I can’t imagine how difficult that is. My son’s father does the same thing I was abused as a child and chose an abuser who abused me our entire relationship I felt like a piece of dirt - totally worthless And then he abused our son horribly (who I believe has Asperger’s) Our son has said he was going to commit suicide 3 times and makes very bad self destructive choices I’m trying to find a therapist to help him.. he’s a professional hockey player in the minors and deals with that too He’s 27 and his dad totally controls him and everything about his life I’m trying to heal and help him heal at the same time I would appreciate any advice you may have.
Yes, that is the ultimate goal of every narcissist - to drive their prime victim, their scapegoat, to commit suicide. It’s because they are sadistic and have a need to feel superior via knowing that they had the power to cause misery to feed off of, so for them to know that they had the power to cause such unbearable suffering to someone that they chose to end their life all together is a delicious pleasure to them. My own parents did that with me. And if you aren’t a narcissist like your husband why weren’t you able to love and protect your son? Were you doing what most women do and prioritizing your husband over your kids? You should have been able to prevent this. Regret won’t change how you failed your son and were actively siding with his abuser when he needed you the most.
@@GodisLove4Eternitystep one is for him to cut all contact with his abuser!! And you beginning to secure your financial situation so that you can divorce him. It’s impossible to heal while still being fed the same poison.
@@winxclubstellamusaWe could all take out our personal frustrations on this woman from our own horrible experiences with narcissist parents but your unkind words literally add no value whatsoever. She is clearly hurting and realizes how she should have made different choices but these patterns are often generational. I'm concerned by your lack of compassion. In fact, I rarely encounter anyone who's been through abuse like we have who doesn't offer compassion towards others in similar situations. Don't let yourself become like the narcissist, lacking in real compassion.
I understand what you're saying. I still speak negatively about myself, and have very low self esteem. I find it hard to take compliments, or if I take them I soon forget about them. I realise that there are certain things that I do well, but I'm scared to speak too positively or openly about these things on the off-chance that I'm mistaken for being completely full of myself, or someone catches me having a bad day, when I'm not doing as well as I said I could do. This self doubt was certainly encouraged by my father, and it's incredibly difficult to shake off. It's incredibly hurtful if/when someone tells me that I don't have the ability to do something that I know I have the ability to do, in much the same way as my father would have done. This has happened, and I've noticed the person making the claim not having the ability to do what he's said I can't do, eg, he's tone deaf, but tells me I can't sing when I used to learn singing, took part in eisteddfods, sang in multiple choirs and took part in musicals. I deduce from these situations that I'm speaking with another narcissist who's decided to use me as their scapegoat, projecting their inability of something onto me. PS. I'm still unable to get hold of your E-Book. Do you have any suggestions as to why this might be the case, what could be going on, what I could do, etc? Thank you
This might sound odd but I'm betting some others will know what I mean.... I've noticed that the more informative and helpful the material on this subject like on Jay's channel...the more I dissociate while ingesting it. That tells me how deep and impactful the potential for healing is as a result of learning from people like Jay and others I've come across.
Just keep going. My skills and understanding have evolved over time. Give yourself as much time as you need, and remember to celebrate all of those little ah-ha moments as you connect the dots
OMFG, you could have switched his name for mine, I’m a self employed carpenter and everything and you kindly took out all the big T trauma stuff that happened as punishment. I have spent absurd amounts of my time and money on therapy trying to get past this stuff. Here I am, swinging a hammer for 30 years and every time I get close to getting a steady stream of work for the right people, building rad stuff, my life and health go to hell. I have put in everything I have got trying to mend this, and now it’s getting harder to heal the bones, be able to work again with injuries and illness and find anyone skilled and experienced enough to help with what Ive been dealing with. I’m still breathing so I’ll keep trying. Just don’t know what to do anymore.
This is so accurate, and now that you mention it and explain it so well, I can see the conditioning throughout my life. They don’t even hide it. 😢 So much damage done. If I’m strong, I’m all alone (or worse, as I discovered after 40 years - they’ll eventually take off the mask and try to destroy you). If I’m weak, I get a family that slowly ramps up the abuse. Those were always the only two choices.
In short words: Whenever you show strength you are attacked by a narcissistic.
Wow, yes! Well put
Isn’t that the truth. Those types of people are nothing more than a POS and unfortunately they are broken as well as empaths are supposed to show kindness towards them when they don’t deserve it due to the cruelty and trauma that they have caused.
This part
Exactly. Especially when you set boundaries with a narcissist.
You will be told you are being "selfish, disloyal, difficult, entitled, unstable, ungrateful ..." if you are a scapegoat who dares assert himself/herself.
It is so clear now why we stayed so thoroughly confused and now are bravely overcoming this crap as an adult.
Ikr?! You mean if I don't come up to you like an abused dog a NORMAL person would still show me compassion? Life game changer.
I was the scapegoat child and at this point in my life I’ve had enough of letting my trauma define who I am.
So glad! Good for you!!! One thing I've discovered is that I must enjoy the time when I am strong. Because the weakness will come back and demand attention again.
Good for you.
@@katray7452true! That!
I'm seeing the scapegoat as a goat named scapes that I need to sell because I can't keep this 🐐 goat .... Scapes is not house broken and it came from my mother's house .... anyone want to buy this goat????😅
Same. Tired of it all. Doing my best to heal. ✅️
They want you to be miserable and connected to them. Misery loves company. Sooo true.
Just had three years of therapy undone by visiting my parents for Christmas and catching COVID while I was there. COVID put me into a weakened state, which is what they wanted. Then it was game over.
This explains some of the things I noticed even as a child that I was expected to be smart at school and stupid at home . I was expected to be supportive and compassionate to everyone else despite never experiencing this myself . Be the parent so they didn't have to .
“Smart at school and stupid at home” is a crazy dichotomy. Expected to become a critical thinker, but not critical enough to question them. Become a strong debater, able to build a good argument, but don’t dare disagree with them ?? It makes you feel crazy like somehow you were still not smart enough.
I had the Golden Rule and the 10 Commandments burned into my brain while they straight up refused to follow it themselves. It makes reality all wonky.
I fantasized about getting so ill or hurt I'll need to be hospitalized. I fantasized about the care I'd receive at my hospital bed. I fantasized about compassion.
OMG... I fantasied that I die and THEN they will have some compasion...
Completely! Expected to be the family therapist. Compassionate to all of their needs, but not receiving real compassion from them
It's not always parents that scapegoat...often it's siblings that scapegoat another sibling as well as triangulate
My twin did this to me
Oh don't they just! 😢
You are one of the few people who covers everything related to the scapegoat on UA-cam. Your videos are so helpful. Thank you.
Happy to help!
Omg my family would never help me without me being completely devastated first. So now I immediately get triggered into crying when I feel disempowered. It’s embarrassing.
Wow - you just described what I would do - I never understood why… now it makes sense - it happens to me too 😔
I'm sorry you went through ❤ crazy times for scapegoats
I relate to this i feel hopeless and empty i have no one and nobody i lost all my friends because of these narcs abuse
Wow, that's insightful, I have the exact same issue, just start crying when trying to be assertive to abusers
:O omg yes!
My father was like this. He only offered compassion when I was doing poorly and under his complete control. Those are the only times I recall him being helpful for my well being. It's a very violating feeling because when I think back, this kind of stuff happened when I was in my 20s, I wasn't 3 years old. But whenever I did something actually good for myself, he would do things like throw me out or he would take control of the solution without giving me any input on it. It's a gross feeling because it feels feminizing for a man to go through this, like my male input wasn't valuable. It's just disgusting thinking back to it. Its sad not to have parents and bitterness eats away at me but I am glad not to have him in my life. I wish I had an actual father, or some kind of male role model that actually taught me things and encouraged me.
I'm sorry you went through this.
I too wish I had a real father that taught me things.
You described everything whats happening to me now and having to deal with it at work too its not nornal they only care for themselves and then tell you you need to improve or change and when you are doing good they say why do you think you are perfect? you are selfish and you only care about yourself and they say you are on your own and they kick you out of the house
Yes - self promotion/marketing is one of the hardest things to warm up to after being raised by a narcissist and having several long term relationships with them… the danger of drawing attention to yourself, your strengths, your wins… it just leaves you open to attack and the learned behavior is to stay small to survive.
I was always either chastised, criticized, corrected, shamed or guilted. Seemed like nothing was ever good enough.
Walk straight, no slouching, dont shuffle your feet when you walk, chew with mouth closed, elbows off table, it never ended.
Mother's favorite line...you lucky you even have a mother. My mother left when i was 3.
Always a great video Jay. Have learned so much in last year why me childhood was so messed up.
Please understand I don't mean to try to top your pain. Can you imagine being hit with his knuckles or being dragged by your hair every time you lagged on a command or put you elbows on the table? What kind of man beats a little girl? It is unfathomable to me.
@@katray7452 God will judge
If I was ever inflated, my mother was nearby with a pin.
I starved my body so that my mother would finally see me suffer, and it is really hard not to want to run towards these ed tendencies whenever something bad happens
I’ve been trying to pinpoint what’s going on with me at this stage of my life. This makes perfect sense to me, “DING”. It’s safer to not shine in my own life. I see the connections more clearly now. How mixed messages from both parents, constant teasing from my siblings led me to think it was better to be invisible less jealousy less of a target. Pushed to excel by my father then punished by my mothers envy. It was an impossibly confusing conundrum of trying to self actualize while never arriving at any internal sense of satisfaction or achievement. Living someone else’s unlived dream to avoid feeling invisible. The conflict in having to “perform” for any attention at all while feeling empty living someone else’s dream. And feeling lost I escaped into alcoholism, codependency, trauma bonded in abusive relationships. Acted out all the unspoken pathology in my family of origin.
Well said. I'm with you. Wish you the best
Its true, it was the only time my mother showed me any attention or "love". She loved when i was crying, down or sick. It literally lasted only a few minutes though.
Is that how I got "trauma bonded" for 5 years from my covert narc mom, from a " 5sec" care, once in a lifetime 🤔🥺😮🥺
I'm not sure if my dad is narcissistic or not but he never shows any compassion. If I'm doing well or doing badly, he just sort of stares at me when I share anything of that sort with him. Or he could be really quite horrible if he ever upset me. He can't bear emotion, seems to see it as a weakness. That utter lack of any form of care or concern has had such a profound effect on me I definitely struggle a lot with shame and feeling like there's something wrong with me. Horrible legacy to work through.
Sounds as though he could have a dismissive avoidant attachment style. (Could also be narcissistic along with it). Look up dismissive avoidant attachment styles. These people hate any type of emotional intimacy. They think of any type of negative emotion as weak and think everyone should be able to sort their own problems out. My family were DA and so is my husband. They can be highly narcissistic along with it.
Having autism and being the scapegoat at the same time is no joke😢😢😢😢
So sorry
Same here😩😩😩Always on fight mode
I’m also the ND scapegoat of my family. It absolutely makes our situation and suffering so much harder and more damaging than if a neurotypical had suffered this type of abuse.
Very true.
Exactly...... I just found out at 31 and now it's like all flooding back... the things I endured BECAUSE I'm autistic.... but somehow I'm supposed to believe that my malignant narcissist mother had no clue whatsoever even though it also took me asking her to take me to the doctor for depression for 2 years before she actually did. Looking back, if I could watch my child-self watch TV, rocking away furiously in my TV chair, or hitting myself in the face because I was "stressed out," yeah, there's no way I wouldn't have at least considered it..... I mean, come on....
This is SO HARD TO HEAR but so necessary 😢❤
As a child, I always wanted to be in a wheelchair. I thought that was abnormal.
But that was to get attention and compassion.
Hearing this message in a video, is so crasy.
Like Jay Ried knows my entire Life feelings and putting it into words.
It's incredible.
As a child I was in intense pain in both knees. When I actually got my Mom to get me medical treatment. The orthopedic surgeon said....She needs surgery. My Mom said when. He said "10 years ago" 😢 Once I healed my Mom hated me. She just passed. I can't make sense. I'm also a survivor of sex and labor trafficking. I 😢finally got a hold of her with a phone I found. She said loudly. You GOT yourself in. ..get yourself out. 😢
And I pretended to be going blind for a while! (Explained in my family as "just wanting attention," which is sort of true, if you take away the "just".)
@@cosmopolitan794 yes.
Then I wasn't the only one who reacted like this.
Attention is so needed.
Disregard is a very high ordeal.
I pretended I had heart surgery…😞
I tried to get my sisters to break my legs
How horrible we went through this
The abuse parents put on children
It is comforting to know I wasn’t alone going through parental abuse
Some of us didn’t even get the compassion in positions of weakness either.
But I do know of examples that can often be experienced in adulthood, regardless of upbringing, and that’s with frenemies. True friends are supportive during your hardships and cheer you on when you share your successes. With frenemies, they may be there to commiserate with, but won’t be happy for your triumphs, due to their envy or insecurity.
Like “Lawrence “, I’ve found myself testing others to see whether they really accept me knowing my shortcomings as well as the assets.
Does this "Frenemies also scapegoat us? Because they think you are dumb, just because we are emotional due to high trauma response & our rational brains aren't used" After smear campaigns & betraying me one of the narcissist snake frenemies claims, she has no jealousy with me, is it true that we are just worthless & deserves to be disrespected and dumb in their eyes and it is not their jealousy
This video inspired me to go onto my totally empty LinkedIn profile and add to it the details of a project I worked on at work. Showcasing my programming skills. I'm trying to be strong, instead of just small and weak, you know? It's so damn hard! But still, a solid step for me.
The best compliment i got from my narcissistic dad was "everyone is saying good things about you, i don't know what they're talking about" triggered him by trying to impress him, definitely a narcissist
Excellent video explaining something that sounds insane. The root of all my self sabotage I'm thinking.
The weird thing is that I figured this out as a nine year old when the scapegoating and the associated trauma bonding started. I would always be attacked whenever I showed happiness and playfulness.
Well well, this one really hit home. I'm actually nauseous over the 'Lawrence' story. (I felt it deeply and was horrified at him having to 'sell' himself. The 'dignity' excuse, wow; I have the same issue. I'm literally grimacing as I type this.)
My mind is going to a time when, recently graduated high school, my dad would make me get up early and just sit there. Didn't matter what I did, but I had to be out of bed by 830a. He'd visit my room frequently at night, so I never was able to sleep well.
So this was the '70s and I had a brand new magazine, first of its kind, "Women's Sports". I was sitting at the kitchen table one morning reading it, so excited at embarking on a new fitness journey. He came over, picked it up, and beat the living daylights outa me, shredding the mag nearly into confetti.
I came looking for help with self-sabotage and found this channel, among others. I think we're over the target now.
Btw, as far as 'standing up'... I'm actually so self-sabotaged that I'm in a wheelchair a good portion of the day. I know what to do to get better (diet, assistive devices, pacing) but always mess it up when I begin to succeed.
😳😁
I’m so sorry Gina. You can do it! You are valuable and precious and able. I hope you heal and get better soon!
@@GodisLove4Eternity Awww thanks sister/brother. That means a lot. Maranatha. 😉🙏
@@ginadellgrottaglia6897 🙏🏻❤️ Maranatha!
I am so sorry this happened to you. You endured a monster when you were young.🥺💙
@@bookbeing Yeah. He died last year, age 90. I still can't believe the relief when it crosses my mind. 😌
Thanks.
Oh. So that's what it is.
I've been blaming myself for my lack of success for my entire adult life. Finally here's the explanation, so simple like that.
Thank you Jay, you're so right about everything. Its so very true. I got C-Ptsd from the abuse. I am 47 female who is the oldest out of five children my parents had. I always been the black sheep in my family. Both of my parents are Narcissists. My brothers and sisters are Narcissists Enablers. I went to Jesus cause of the abuse. I know my worth and values. My peace comes from God. Jesus is our hope. God is Love. God is great all the time.I been a Christian for over ten years. I got support my friends from church.
I am the same - from an abusive house where I was the scapegoat - i have cptsd too and I became a Christian from all my siblings
Praise and thank the Lord you are
saved and will be with Jesus for eternity. A lot of times God chooses & saves those who are abused and looked down upon and who are put down.
It is worth the abuse to end up with Jesus for eternity 🙏🏻❤️
I now sometimes feel sorry for the abusers if they don’t turn from their sin to Jesus because if they reject His free gift of salvation they will be punished severely forever - especially for their cruelty to children
Only God got me through everything (married to a very abusive cruel sinful man who faked being a Christian)
You are so right God is our peace
Jesus is our Hope 🙏🏻❤️
I've just had a huge aha moment. Thank you
This is the best episode ever. I kept yelling out That's ME!!
My disgusting narcissistic father THRIVED on this. He loved making me feel worthless and inferior and ashamed and deserving of punishment. I was FORCED to feel this way in order to receive any breadcrumbs of kindness, compassion, or generosity.
Then and only then (when I was successfully weakened/broken down) would I receive breadcrumbs of support (usually in the form of financial help in a survival crisis).
I also noticed that he DEEPLY resented seeing me shine in my gifts and talents, especially when he couldn’t take credit for them.
For example, my talent for singing grated my narcissistic father’s nerves. He HATED hearing me sing and being confronted by how talented I was.
One time, while I was joyfully singing around the house, he slammed the door in disgust and frustration as he stormed into the other room.
He couldn’t STAND hearing me sing and shine bright as the superstar he knew I am.
The only time he would ever show me a breadcrumb of support or fake kindness would be when he thought he could directly benefit from it/take credit for it to his peers.
But at the end of the day, it was still ALWAYS about him, and you could tangibly feel how much he hated seeing me in my power.
This resonates with me. I got the lead role in a musical in high school and when my narc parents came to see me, my father just went on and on about how good of a singer some other girl was and didn't say a word about my performance. I was so hurt. They devalue you for being uniquely impressive because it's not about them being impressive. You aren't allowed to matter on your own terms. Living in rebellion and being MAGNIFICENT is the Elixer.
Don't tell narcissistic parents about your victories or defeats. In fact don't provide them any information - it's fodder for their gossip.
Absolutely. Tell them nothing. They denigrate your good experiences and taint them. Fake sympathy over bad experiences or shame you and or laugh behind your back. I am trying to go no contact.
He is the best psychotherapist against narcissism HANDS DOWN!
Thank you Jay. Very helpful. Your nice little ad lib bit at the end always makes me smile. Nice to finish on a high note.
This seems so real to me 😢
thank you!💕
Im surviving narcs abuse at work and at home its so much to deal with when they force you to do things and you know everyone is a narc they keep gaslight me even when i set boundaries
I would deeply appreciate if you could explore this subtle topic more in future videos. and perhaps add links to additional research and resources so we can deep-dive into this dynamic
So on time, relevant for current challenges, thank you Jay🦋🙏
Wow, this explains so much. I grew up with this dynamic, married this dynamic and passed this apperently to my kids. They are all grown ups, nobody is celebrating their success openly
How could you forget what you had to go through when you were your kids' age?
Not feeling like anyone is genuinely rooting for me.
It's like you've observed my whole life, & put words to my experiences; including all the nuances
For scapegoats working to introspect on how this could apply to your life, there are so many ways!! I initially thought “this might not be my personal experience” because I was forced into hyper independence and performance on both physical and emotional processing levels- and I have been punished by the abusers for becoming disabled and my abilities changing; this kind of situation isn’t so straightforward on the surface in terms of how weakness is reinforced and strength is punished. Instead, these concepts in the videos can apply in various ways: like, you had to be weaker in terms of expressing/actionably upholding your values, being submissive to authority on practical and even intellectual levels, and this can apply about decision making. Plus, even if you have been hyper independent and a high achiever like I was, then perhaps this still applies: like, there are acceptable and unacceptable levels of success in the household- and, as indicated by my present experiences of abuse for being disabled, there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of being “weak” or dependent.I’m not a licensed and professional psychologist to parse out how this functions, but just wanted to comment beneath this great video in case people might need examples of how this can apply in different situations!
Yes, it is true you are getting abused for being disabled/with rare genetics conditions/health issues and in this vulnerable state you will get "used" by a covert narcissist mother/family/parents in the most dangerous way, it is beyond worse than getting murdered! You are killed but your body stays alive, but can I ask you, "How hyper Independencey can benefits us or will astray us? You have all the 💯 chance & vulnerability to become a scapegoat again outside the home as well, i am thinking of leaving this narcissistic house & narcissist relatives both are highly toxic in my life, where I am subjected to be a scapegoat, will I become hyper Independent again as I was before for 5years (OVER GIVING and codependency) and how does a hyper independent life looks like, especially if you are a girl
This can also happen if you grew up with a BPD parent. My grandma (uBPD) caused my mom to behave like this to the point that my mom developed BPD too, but she's the Waif archetype (basically stuck in the weakened victim state because it feels safe for her bc it's all she knew growing up)
What is uBPD, AND WHY it CANNOT HAPPEN FROM Covert narcissistic parents, How can a person develop BPD and not be born with it
Is it true that "BPD have higher consciousness but aren't born with intellect, both consciousness and intelligence" Both have 0% correlations, as claimed by "JORDON PETERSON"?
You've explained this PERFECTLY.
Thank you.
Thank you for the valuable and empowering info Jay! 🙏
What twisted double binds they put us in! Heads they win, tails you lose.
Thank you for creating and sharing.
Thank you so much for your videos! They are life saving, life changing for me. I finally understand why I self sabotage almost everything I do atfer months and month of work and invested energy. Finally makes sense! Thank you so much! ❤️❤️❤️🙏
All of these questions at the beginning of videos, I answer yes to every one. They are all accurate depictions of my experience, some that i have never been able to even verbalize. These particular ones are really key to understanding the scapegoat - avoident attachment connection. Thank you so much
Hi Jay, do you think you could do a video on how scapegoat challenges within friendships? It’s been really difficult to navigate especially when realizing so many of my relationships resemble my family of origin. Perhaps even elaborating on what those experiences may be like while you’re in them as a scapegoat and what may be some hiccups when discovering all of this and wanting to break free? I am just not sure if due to trauma my expectations are outlandish or if their genuine and I’m just used to normalizing dysfunction that it feels wrong and selfish of me..
Brianna, could you share more about friendship issues. I have concerns about them, too, and want to know if they can be related to toxic conditions growing up.
Yep. Exactly what happened to me. Thank you so much for these examples and practical breakdown. I have spent a lot of time lately understanding the narcissist. What happened to me. But it can only get me so far. Your 3 pillar model, I find extremely helpful. I am now learning to live in defiance. And your examples and practical breakdown are very helpful in that. Thank you so much!
Powerful message. Thank you, Jay.
ok now it makes sense where and when and why this tender compassionate nurturing loving side of my mom comes from..... she only seems to be able to relate to me in an unhealthy way... either commiseration, or subtle competition .... but never true love or respect... im only worthy of her respect if she herself feels magically happy in that moment... and ifshe doesnt its my fault cuz she lives thru my emotions.. she has no independent autonomous emotions herself...
This is kind of disgusting..but my "mother" volunteered for the Red Cross during the war..not because she WAS compassionate...but because her sisters and friends did...and GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION...
She got to wear a uniform...they did nothing but rolled bandages but...
when she wore her uniform people thought she was a nurse..
SO
she began to think of herself as a nurse...
In my childhood she delighted in digging glass out of my feet ( which my sisters had caused..)
With a needle instead of taking me to the doctor...
She LOVED MERTHIOLATE INSTEAD OF BACTINE WHICH MY FRIENDS'
MOTHERS USED ( WHICH HAD A PAIN KILLER)
MERTHIOLATE burned savagely....
So when ever I was sick if I stayed in bed and was quiet she loved SHAKING DOWN THE THERMOMETER AND CALLING THE DOCTOR....
BUT ONE TIME I HAD VOMITING...
SHE WENT CRAZY SCREAMING AT ME FOR THE MESS I MADE...
NO CHICKEN NOODLE BECAUSE SHE HAD TO WASH SHEETS ...
THEN THE MOST TERRIFYING OF ALL..
I WAS SICK...FEVER..OH GOODEE..LOOKS LIKE A QUIET..NURSEY ADVENTURE...
BUT I WAS TOO QUIET...
SHE DID NOT THINK SO...
I WAS BURNING UP...I WAS HALLUCINATING...
SHE NEVER CAME TO SEE IF I NEEDED ANYTHING...
ALL DAY..
MY FATHER LOOKED IN...BUT DID NOT WANT TO WAKE ME...I HEARD HIM ASK HER HOW I WAS..
"OH SHE'S FINE"
I TRIED TO CALL OUT TO HIM...BUT COULDN'T
SAME SCENARIO FOR 3 DAYS...
NEITHER MY "MOTHER" OR SISTERS CHECKED TO SEE IF I NEEDED ANYTHING...
ON THE 3RD DAY..
MY FATHER NOTICE I WAS IN THE SAME NIGHTGOWN ..
HE RUSHED IN REALIZED I WAS BURNING UP...AND I WAS SEMI CONSCIOUS..HE GRABBED ME AND PUT ME IN A COOL BATH AND TOLD ME HE HAD TO BRING THE FEVER DOWN I WAS SCREAMING BECAUSE COOL WATER ON A HIGH FEVER DOES HURT...
HE SLOWLY LOWERED THE WATER TEMP..IT WAS VERY PAINFUL..HE COMFORTED ME AND PUT WATER ON MY MOUTH TO GET SOME HYDRATION IN ME..
He screamed her ...and asked if she had been feeding me ...she said..She ASSUMED I was getting up at night ..because I "slept" all day....
He told her to get the doctor on the phone...
When the doctor called back he told her to stay with me and not let me drown..then said..never mind..and let the water out..
He talked to the doctor..who agreed to make a house call...
At the point..it was time to get a good lawyer...
But in those days....this kind of insanity was not asked about and the father almost always lost in court
I'm so sorry. Are you safe now?
So sorry to hear that. My father was a doctor but was always working and I don't know if he ever saw my mother as she truly is. My mother would take care of me only when I was burning with fever and only for approval. I think she tried to poison me when I was around 11 years old. I was the only one who got a mysterious gastric infection that sent me to the emergency room. Doctors told my parents to leave me there at the hospital but they refused . I wanted to stay there. I felt safe away from her. I didn't think of it when that happened but lately, somehow got into my repertoire of nightmares.
@@quarteracreadventures855 I have no contact with any"family" for 30 years...I thought that was all I needed..but my siblings stole everything after I got her settled into a good Alzheimer's unit...
I have gone through work injury and major natural disasters...I have only started working in the effects in recent years..because ONLY know is trauma being exposed.
@@Lyrielonwind WOW...sounds like Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy..
U was married to a PSYCHO doctor
and my sisters were nurse and respiratory therapist...ALL were patient mockers and nutcases...
The resp.therapist got Hep C...
BECAME A CROOKED LAWYER ..LOL
I have lived behind the 8 ball all my life..
U am REALLY TRYING TO GET A DECENT LIFE BEFORE I DIE..LOL
I'm French and I graduated high school with the best score in the entire state and the equivalent of an A average. When I told my mother, her first reaction was "how many questions did you miss to get an average A+?"
My parents didn't give a f*ck and wouldn't even sign my application to college in time (I was a minor) when I was headhunted by the best schools in the country.
But a year earlier, my sister graduated high school and she got a big party and a 1500€ watch as a gift.
OH, I forgot to mention, my sister was 4 year older than me and graduated just one year sooner than me (I'm not pointing finger at her, she did what she could, but the contrast made things worse)
Same here, I could have gone to any university with my high marks and was offered a place in the national university. My father pointed out that was an honour for me but kept to his mantra that he was only legally obliged to feed clothe and house me until I turned 18 then I had to leave because he found out I was having sex with my long-time boyfriend. He wasn't religious he just thought I was disgusting and now no one would ever want to marry me. I was the type of girl men would use and not respect. What a twit he is!
I left home a day or two after turning 18 and frankly was glad to leave. Rubbish parents. You can only play the cards you're dealt in life. It has been a long road to recovery from the psychological damage and I am 65! They could not take away my intelligence though and you also have that precious gift. Rock on!
Thank you for sharing! That's awful and I'm sorry it happened to you.
Totally relate to the sex thing. My mother actually suggested I had surgery to have my hymen stitched back in so that the honor of the family is safe if by miracle I managed to find a husband (her mantra for me since I was a baby girl was "God help the man who will agree to marry and have children with you" 😳
I read a comment the other day that said that we became scapegoats because they couldn't brainwash us in the first place " and that's so on spot.
So rock on sista, their loss!
And I would love to hear about your recovery story if you're up for it!!
@@EmmA-ln9he Aaaagh! It is hard to believe another human can suggest surgery to you, and gaslight you in such a weird way about marriage! Let alone the one who is supposed to have empathy and love for you. But believe it we must as it is sadly the reality of these twisted souls. Then walk or more accurately limp away. I never realised how badly I was damaged and had poor coping skills. really other people helped me a lot.
So when I was 18 and living in a share house, a man of 25 suggested to me at breakfast on a Saturday morning that everyone was out shopping, lets have sex? I said No I don't want to and you have a girlfriend anyway (she also lived there). He said it didn't matter but I continued to refuse. He then pulled a kitchen knife out of a drawer, threatened to rape me and told me to take my shirt off with the knife pressing at the top button. I started crying and mercifully he said Ok I won't rape you and left.
My mother happened to visit me a week later, the first time she contacted me since I left home months ago. I started to tell her "This guy wanted sex and when I said no he pulled a knife on me" She interrupted me saying "Oh you must have provoked him" I felt like I had been knifed in the guts then. She put her nose in the air and changed the subject. For years and years I was afraid to be friendly with men, or be alone in a house with a man, in case it meant rape. I couldn't talk to anyone else about it until I was 50 and went to a therapist. I sometimes feel I was silly to believe her but I was a child and like you had been gaslit all my life about how worthless and bad I was.
I left my job soon after and went fruit picking with a new boyfriend, unfortunately the season was delayed and all around people were camping on the riverside without any money for food. I rang "Mum" and asked for $20. She said No. I said Mum I'm starving! Please send money to the local Post office. She said "Oh no your father would be so angry if I did that."
My boyfriend was so angry with them for not helping he said "They don't deserve you, we are going to Perth." This was the other side of Australia about 4,000 km away. Best move of my life! First we had to wait for work of course to save up fares etc. But this gave me distance from them and I wish I had never contacted them again really, but I did and although I am happily still here in Perth, just the contact through occasional visits and phone calls has been corrosive.
I predictably married a narcissist and bully, one son, then divorced him after 8 years, worked hard to survive, and consciously looked for a better person to marry. I believe my guardian angel was guiding me to my new and current husband of 35 years.
I can relate to Jays course so well because I was the hopeful child for so long. No more!
So it has taken me so long to recover in gradual ways and not even knowing this stuff that thankfully is now available. Jays online course is working well for me. He understands on a deep psychological relatable level because he is a survivor too. Other therapists who have not been traumatised are helpful but can't really relate so well.
Thank you so much for your support and sharing your story. How are you going now?
I’ve always felt like I’m in a hole in the ground. Whenever I lift my head up out of the hole my dad and brother are there with shovels beating me back down into the hole.
They feel threatened when I feel confident.
You are spot on Mr. Jay
Thank you .this helps me understand myself so much better .much gratitude to u Jay
People are so very cruel , and don't even know what they are doing to a child
My dream is to totally eradicate narcissism. It's such an unnecessary waste of energy life and time. It's evil incarnate.
Thank you
you have answered so much of my why?
God bless you🙏
Hi Jay..lovely content..i would really love to buy the kindle edition of your book, but unfortunately amazon Germany, says it is not available..do you know where in Europe I can find it? Thanks a lot 🙂
Thanks for the video ❤
I am the same regarding my work. It is top notch but marketing is highly stressful to me. I also feel like the person in your example. The same thing with my father as your example and to an extend my mother. He had high expectations of me and now I see it was to cover his inadequacies. No compassion at all and I am very perfectionistic but not as bad as I could have been. I just realised that covering his own inadequacies was the reason for his behaviour with me from your other video. Yet on the rare occasion of communication he will fray and say how much he loves me. By rare I mean barely ever. He has never apologised for his behaviour towards me and my son yet expects us to be the opposite. I think my mother has a lot to do with this but presents a different appearance and probably because she had to for her own survival.
I think this knowledge is & or maybe is enough to accept the truth allow or forgive self & others and let go - try it
It is a very horrible realization that caregivers feel threatened by their own children's strength. I understand now, why I not asvertisemy professional mentor work, even I am good and can help do many people. I am deep inside carry loyalty to my parents which didn't like me seeing me succeeding. They must felt unworthy than. How immature is tgst!?!
I think Lawrence's father would have reacted overtly extreme if he found his son wss doing so well. Lawrence hopefully knew he had a choice; he could do well on the team or be abandoned by his father in the form of harrassment or throwing him out of
the house. It woujd be a difficult choice. In this scenario, he would have to decide which would work for him; most likly, he would have to wait to come of age and keave his father's housr befote being free to excel, at least outwardly, but that would not stop him from thinking well of himself and taking necessary actions to improve himself in secret. Sometimes options are few, but resources might be many. 😊
The case can also be that a child’s accomplishments are used by the narcissistic parent as a way for them to show off. Do you agree? I understand this is another topic. This video just made me think of this as well. I really appreciate these videos! Thank you.
I didn’t get compassion for being weak or strong. Zero ever!
why would u need compassion when ur strong???? i think u should say u need love praise adoration comfort affection when ur strong
They are truly evil people.
I had the experience of being undermined in my strength with a therapist. that was awful. :/
Narcissist see you as object. So if they cannot control an object they throw it off. Butt as long as it work well you simply enjoy the benefits of it without care of well being of the object ( just like you use object for example). But when the object dysfunction rarely and cannot be use you simply repair it ( care about them temporarily untill it is functional again ) .
Why I have learned this at 50???
The statement "Scapegoat Children Must Feel Weakened To Deserve Compassion" is not one I resonate with in terms of my own experience. As a rule with few exceptions neither of my parents had the capacity for ever responding to me with true compassion even when I was in a weakened vulnerable state. My mother in particular might even use that situation to mock and ridicule me. I wish I was exaggerating but I don't think I am. I didn't even know that compassion would be possible from either of them quite frankly. This is a shocking reality for me to face and fathom having lived 6 plus decades. I still have trouble believing this was reality for me. I wonder if anyone else here has a similar experience? I recently came to understand the meaning of the term Alexithymia. I wonder if this term applied to each of my parents to some degree. How can one put a description to a feeling they are not capable of feeling most of the time?
Maybe I just haven't understood the statement the way it is intended.
I was chosen as golden child and then gradually became scapegoat. Because I refused to protect child predators in family the grandparent my supposed parents and my life destroyed. Talk about sick family. Shifting the roles yikes❤💔❤ can we say psychotic elders? I started question toxicity. I was also parentified and treated as a slave. And sex slave
A child needs compassion as much as they need oxygen. Wow.
maybe people feel worthless cuz their operating systems are not working properly....which leads to overall low self esteem...
I absolutely LOVE your “compassion machine” analogy!!! ❤🥹 perfectly describes that feeling of ‘being kept small’ 😌
😂
I don't know, but if I crumpled and was weakened, my mother would come and comfort me, "Poor baby!" even if I was in my 30s. I was trained to run back to my abuser for comfort.
Same here. They want us crippled and dependent
Exactly!
Love bombed and then, they pull the rug out from under you to devalue, demean and dismiss.
Same.
Me too
I've learned that with a narcissist, setting a healthy boundary only gave them fuel to further know how to push buttons. I invoke the saying to myself in such times: "I don't negotiate with terrorists."
Ooh! Good one! 😊
Nice term to call them. I love what you expresses them as "T".
I have struggled to start my business as I get so much attention so quickly. Then I just drop out. I have an autoimmune response to strength, financially independent and being well regarded.
I’m 55 years old. When my husband looked at my elementary school records a few years ago, I discovered that I was an excellent student that scored in the 98 percentile on achievement tests. My mother made me repeat 4th grade. It was humiliating. My mother said it was because something was wrong with me but she couldn’t tell me why because, “Of the way I get.” Never in a million years did I think I was a good student and that 4th grade was my best academic year ever. I never graduated from high school and I consistently left myself in positions of weakness. I sabotaged my success. I never knew why until this video. Thank you.
Still it is hard for me to accept that my mother was abusive and that she purposely penalized me for success. I’ve always felt like such an embarrassment for not being successful. I’ve never confronted her as it just seem like it could not be true. Who would do that to a child? How terrible would it be for me to accuse her?
I accused my mother of the way she treated me during my life compared to my siblings. I don't think I did it for any reason or looking for something or trying to have an explanation or apologies (I didn't get any) I just burst. I think my mind (not my will) couldn't restrain myself any longer. It was a spontaneous reaction. By the time I realized I had emptied my guts. I don't think I could have done it better or worse not even reading a list of all the misery she put me through.
From them on, she declared me undercover dirty war. I'm not contact and none of my siblings supported me.
It's up to you to do it or not but if you do so; be prepared, she will raised hell. Be prepared and take care because she'll play her dirtiest tricks.
Until now, I never encountered anyone else who's mother had made then repeat a grade when they didn't need to. I'm sorry that happened to you, too. Sending hugs... My mother always told me I was stupid and bad, and I believed her for way too long. She made me repeat 5th grade. I had been bullied ferociously during that year and she told me I deserved to be bullied because I was "different." The second year of 5th grade I was bullied even worse for having "flunked." I'm sure she knew that would happen. We moved just before I started 6th grade, and the kids in the new town were much nicer, and I made some friends... I just figured out this year at 60, that she's got narcissistic tendencies, and why I was her scapegoat. I think trying to talk to her about it all would not be productive. I'm concentrating on healing and getting on with life.
@bsainsbury1793 It is difficult to swallow that your mother, the person who is supposed to love, protect, nurture and be your biggest cheerleader, WANTS YOU TO FAIL...but, take it from me, this happens and you are gobsmacked the first time and little by little (with each such occurrence) accept that this is what love is. THIS IS NOT LOVE.....little children always love their parents, sadly, not all parents love their children.
You wouldn’t have to accuse her at all. Facts are facts. Tell her you found the 4th grade stats. Ask her why she held you back, when clearly you didn’t need to be. Sit back and watch her spin, rage, lie or deny. Don’t react just watch her and know that her behavior is not your behavior or because of you. Hopefully watching her reaction will make you see her clearly.
I wrote down an interaction I had with my mom. I was shocked to see how comfortable she was raging at and 100% devaluing and disregarding my feelings. She would blame me and I believed her. Seeing the interaction written out factually was a game changer for me. I hope it helps you. Good luck no matter what you choose to do!
The mothers wound. Bethany Webster book can be helpful. We tend to sabotage ourselves as our caregivers sabotaged us. If you confronted her she would never admit it. But you know your truth.
I don't even know where to begin. Some culture like Chinese, where I came from, children have no rights. It's a haven for narcissistic parents to thrive. I was so objectified, my monster narc mother acted like she should get a medal for the fact that I wasn't dead yet. This may sound like an exaggeration. It's not. After I came home from being hospitalized for my suicidal attempt, I became upset because I not only lived, my attempt made my problem worse. My father came home to check on me. After he left, the monster angrily scolded me for causing him to close the shop for an hour to come home. In culture with long history of hierarchical power structure, tolerance for inhumanity is a byproduct of such environment.
I'm so sorry. Are you in a more supportive environment now?
I am so sorry. I have a Chinese friend who called his mom a "tiger mom." It sounds just dreadful.
Catholic Spanish cultures are somehow similar. Mothers are held as Mother Mary; you have to forgive them no matter what.
Everyone will look you down for saying how cold and cruel a mother can be.
It's taboo. Heretic.
@@quarteracreadventures855 Thank you. Your response really warms my heart. I immigrated to the US 40 years ago. One year after arriving here, I made my first attempt. I consider it blessing in disguise as it introduced me to therapy. Making a new life here was no picnic and I have faced my share of racism and anti-immigrant attitude. However, I'd still say I am in a more supportive environment here for the fact that there is more freedom to discuss different opinions and challenge status quo. On a more personal level, cutting off all contact with my family was the real game changer for my healing.
@@gojiberry7201 Because of my mother, I'm particularly sensitized to women-on-wowen cruelty. Like the movie "Raise the Red Lantern', I have seen female relatives from old to younger generations compete for power. It was both brutal and pathetic to watch. It's like they rather peck other hens to death for the number 2 position, while leaving the single rooster at the top. It seems like the idea of banding together to take on the number 1 rooster was simply out of their consciousness. Systemic inequality breeds very irrational behaviors.
Hits home..thanks for bringing this to light..absolute cruelty😢
It's not compassion, it's setting the scene to playact a role, akin to using spices and utensils while cooking: happy, happy, putting a dash of vanilla in cupcake batter, rageful, rageful, where's the spatula, who took it, dinner is burning, who ruined dinner by misplacing MY stuff, rageful rageful.
It's not compassion, it's playacting and demanding the stage to be set up just right. 😞
Narc parents can't show compassion by definition. They can fake it, though. Narc parents instinctively know when love and compassion are due, and they feign pretty well, but not good enough so as to convince the children. Both my parents were experts at demoralizing me when I made my best efforts.
This is very helpful to know. I can clearly see how I self-sabotage so I stay in a weakened state. The comparison of staying on your knees to be connected to a "compassion machine" is apt. Now that I am learning to see myself differently I sure hope this will allow me the opportunity and inner strength to stand up straight and champion myself because I know I have much good and value to add to this world. As always, thank you so much, Jay for putting out all this information.
Your capacity to accurately describe the belief systems that underlies narcissistic abuse is a gift to all of us! There has so often been this gap between what I experienced and putting the dynamics into words. These abusive behaviors feel so yucky...and I've learned to trust how the body feels, but struggle to locate the core of what is happening and put it into words. Thanks Jay. That "aha" moment is like finding the pot of gold!
*Respect
I'm Working To Stand Up Against Ignored Court Orders.....Having Waivering Moments with Thoughts Of Feeling Not Worth Standing Up For...*Expected Behavior
Heres to Validate the Strength of Those who Feel Worthless in Conjunction to Our @bu$3rs
Thank you. I needed to hear this today. 🙏
Dear Jay I am the mother of my beautiful adult son who was scapegoated and committed suicide. We loved each other. My son thought no one cared, and he felt hopeless. He didn't know that I I believed in him and that I also was befogged, weakened and manipulated. He was/is so authentic and kind. My son trusted me and I unknowingly put him in great danger. No one believes me that my son's father set out to destroy my son (and myself). I must admit that I am lost, bereft and numb. To the outside world the father appears to be capable, competant, a good father. Nothing could be further from the truth. My son, I believe, was pushed towards suicide. He put up with so much for so long. The vindictiveness, hostility, ruthlessness of my son's father is perplexing. The hostility and abuse was only directed to my son and myself.
I am so so so very sorry. I can’t imagine how difficult that is.
My son’s father does the same thing
I was abused as a child and chose an abuser who abused me our entire relationship
I felt like a piece of dirt - totally worthless
And then he abused our son horribly (who I believe has Asperger’s)
Our son has said he was going to commit suicide 3 times and makes very bad self destructive choices
I’m trying to find a therapist to help him..
he’s a professional hockey player in the minors and deals with that too
He’s 27 and his dad totally controls him and everything about his life
I’m trying to heal and help him heal at the same time
I would appreciate any advice you may have.
Yes, that is the ultimate goal of every narcissist - to drive their prime victim, their scapegoat, to commit suicide. It’s because they are sadistic and have a need to feel superior via knowing that they had the power to cause misery to feed off of, so for them to know that they had the power to cause such unbearable suffering to someone that they chose to end their life all together is a delicious pleasure to them. My own parents did that with me.
And if you aren’t a narcissist like your husband why weren’t you able to love and protect your son? Were you doing what most women do and prioritizing your husband over your kids? You should have been able to prevent this. Regret won’t change how you failed your son and were actively siding with his abuser when he needed you the most.
@@GodisLove4Eternitystep one is for him to cut all contact with his abuser!! And you beginning to secure your financial situation so that you can divorce him. It’s impossible to heal while still being fed the same poison.
@@winxclubstellamusaWe could all take out our personal frustrations on this woman from our own horrible experiences with narcissist parents but your unkind words literally add no value whatsoever. She is clearly hurting and realizes how she should have made different choices but these patterns are often generational. I'm concerned by your lack of compassion. In fact, I rarely encounter anyone who's been through abuse like we have who doesn't offer compassion towards others in similar situations. Don't let yourself become like the narcissist, lacking in real compassion.
I'm very sorry 😞 that sounds like a very difficult road
So true I stayed really small only half understanding why
I am that child. I never knew what it was until recently and I hate every bit of it now that I know what it is and where it came from.
I understand what you're saying. I still speak negatively about myself, and have very low self esteem. I find it hard to take compliments, or if I take them I soon forget about them. I realise that there are certain things that I do well, but I'm scared to speak too positively or openly about these things on the off-chance that I'm mistaken for being completely full of myself, or someone catches me having a bad day, when I'm not doing as well as I said I could do. This self doubt was certainly encouraged by my father, and it's incredibly difficult to shake off. It's incredibly hurtful if/when someone tells me that I don't have the ability to do something that I know I have the ability to do, in much the same way as my father would have done. This has happened, and I've noticed the person making the claim not having the ability to do what he's said I can't do, eg, he's tone deaf, but tells me I can't sing when I used to learn singing, took part in eisteddfods, sang in multiple choirs and took part in musicals. I deduce from these situations that I'm speaking with another narcissist who's decided to use me as their scapegoat, projecting their inability of something onto me.
PS. I'm still unable to get hold of your E-Book. Do you have any suggestions as to why this might be the case, what could be going on, what I could do, etc?
Thank you
You eloquently described my entire childhood experiences.
Metaphorically, that is.
This might sound odd but I'm betting some others will know what I mean....
I've noticed that the more informative and helpful the material on this subject like on Jay's channel...the more I dissociate while ingesting it. That tells me how deep and impactful the potential for healing is as a result of learning from people like Jay and others I've come across.
Right me too
Just keep going. My skills and understanding have evolved over time. Give yourself as much time as you need, and remember to celebrate all of those little ah-ha moments as you connect the dots
OMFG, you could have switched his name for mine, I’m a self employed carpenter and everything and you kindly took out all the big T trauma stuff that happened as punishment. I have spent absurd amounts of my time and money on therapy trying to get past this stuff. Here I am, swinging a hammer for 30 years and every time I get close to getting a steady stream of work for the right people, building rad stuff, my life and health go to hell. I have put in everything I have got trying to mend this, and now it’s getting harder to heal the bones, be able to work again with injuries and illness and find anyone skilled and experienced enough to help with what Ive been dealing with. I’m still breathing so I’ll keep trying. Just don’t know what to do anymore.
This is so accurate, and now that you mention it and explain it so well, I can see the conditioning throughout my life. They don’t even hide it. 😢 So much damage done. If I’m strong, I’m all alone (or worse, as I discovered after 40 years - they’ll eventually take off the mask and try to destroy you). If I’m weak, I get a family that slowly ramps up the abuse. Those were always the only two choices.
So obvious, now,in hindsight! Self defeating activity for love is just unacceptable!