When experienced hunters start using these devices to their full potential, any hunter starting out using fair chase ethical practices will have zero chance of a mature stag. Then new hunters will succumb to buying one and will never learn how to hunt. Hunting clubs should be ashamed, they should take a stance that it doesn't align with their ethics and should be shunned. But they won't and so begins a division of members. Those that use and those that dont. Give it a few years to see the effects of not only the lack of mature stags but also the division of clubs as thermal hunters stand up at meetings and talk about how they scanned a face with tgeir thermal and found this big stag. Arthur Bentley trophy will be a joke from now on. Imo the worst change we've experienced so far. Wait for pest status and no hunting allowed in NP to follow
G'day Hilldog I've never mentioned this story to anyone, now I'm old school in a lot of things, too many to say, I do have ethics, here goes, back in 2005 I was up in the high country coming up out of a gully system in the dark, left it a bit late you know how it is, had my head torch on heard a stick crack and found another hunter with those night vision goggles and a bow anyway after a short chat we parted not on the best of terms, but he say he wasn't the only one using nvg,s. So as you say it is what it is, but it is up to the individual hunter how ethical they want to be. Cheers for a great chanel, as always a balanced discussion.
thats quite a while ago an early on for NV stuff but theres no doubt it was out there-- that is there kind of excuse though, "everyone else is doing it" , ive had one guy say "its just the same as usin binoculars" , that was piss funny.
I agree with you mate. Thermals should be for pest management purposes only . Hunters need to remember the ethics of fair chase and up hold those. If we abandon those principles it just becomes killing not hunting
Hey Hilldogs Agree on the current situation,It was going to be hard to follow suit with NSW making legal years ago. And shops not putting a restriction or special class of licence on them years ago. The horse had already bolted. After being involved with the hunting exhibitions for the last handful of years you could just tell how popular they were getting and what they will be today. The worst is seeing people out cruising the lakes early morning and late at night and you know exactly what they are doing
martymannn, the shop$$ had nothing to do with it, the GMA proberly could of to bring in some kind of regulation around it -- but yesss, horse well an truely bolted, think it won the cup yesterday hooroo!
very divisive topic. I agree with your thoughts. It won't be too far down the track that authentic hunting will be viewed more as "pest control" for the government, a numbers game. Gma harvest reports already essentially do this. At some point all this will be used against us.
@@venaticus9944 yeo I agree the GMA report is nothing to do with management but rather a tally. We are so far from a management discussion it's not funny. Thanks 👍
I suppose that I was lucky that I chose to always hunt deer ethically at a young age.Rifle,binoculars,map/gps and the knowledge that I gained over the years up the bush was all I needed.I see more and more shooters wanting to take the easy road to improve their chances of taking that elusive big stag.What a sad situation we now find ourselves in with the introduction of thermal devices now legal on public land.PS-A very sad day for hunters.
They have thrown fair chase out the window. Dont understand why we are paying game licenses when they so badly are gagging to make them a pest. Thermals on private sure no drama whatever but yeah not a fan of the new rules…still could of been alot worse i guess. Side note i live out bush in a double story house, often have deer feeding in the yard late at night. The amount of times ive woken up to go to the loo, looked out the upstairs window and had a deer 50 yards away outside snap its head and look straight at me even when im upstairs walking quietly and behind glass is insane. They are truely incredible.
They dont want to hunt. They just want the head for the minimal amount of effort. Doesn't matter the size or how many. They take em all. The ones who actually like to get out in the bush and hunt aren't changing their ways. But the Melbourne boys up every weekend with all the toys dont give a shit. I think you would also find these are also the blokes who will take them 700+ across the gully so with a long-range calibre and a high powered thermal they have no chance
My submission wasn't in support of daytime thermals. It's still not clear to me why they changed. I assumed a blanket ban made enforcement of poachers easier to enforce. Staring at a screen isn't a my idea of a good day out in the bush. Im not a huge glassing fan either. I love getting in close in thick scrub kicking them out of bed. Dedicated hunters are still going to score the majority and the best deer no matter how much others spend.
i think the best deer are gone, an it will continue that the 'bad' guys will get the 'big guys' every time. there is a theme when someones consistently pulling out big racks in the past 5 years say, prior to that alot of stiff eared trophy photos too ;) - i think for bush stalkers there will just be a slight longer pause between drinks if doing it properly an fairly etc.
When i saw the change in regs, it left me baffled mate. It's upsetting, disappointing, and leaves us feeling like GMA have forgotten everything they ever worked for. Anyone who doesnt agree with thermals on public land are now just viewed as dinosaurs. As you say, add in the chopper and govt culling, alpine hunting is going to change for the worst. Sad state of affairs.
Might add.. yes, it is what it is. There’s still a point detesting this ‘advancement’ though. Although there is young fellas coming into the sport they won’t all reach for the quick and easy. Having these conversations highlights the skillset earned by the old school ways of hunting deer. I must admit your vid title had me thinking kata and ata thermals at first, it peaked my interest much more than the heat seeking type! Nevertheless, a good chat and very valid points.
@@HillDogTV All is good mate, two young ones now so busy times. 4 year old loves hunting and riding so it’s good fun! found his first Casty last week. Take care and warm barrels mate!
Yeh I agree the concept of people being shot with the use of thermals is just grasping at straws. That’s not the issue, it’s taking the fair chase out of hunting. To equate thermal use to the same as technology improvements and it’s still fair, is just not the correct.
yeah i agree fully regarding the technology improvements being the same as a Thermal device. as i mentioned to another commenter, i apologise for not digging into every nook an cranny an covering the complete arguement or discussion points but i got across the Gist i was wanting too- tehcnically i am wrong saying Compound Bows came before Leverguns... :)
@ yeh I was agreeing with the fact I see the argument of it being a technological advancement but I don’t think it’s a fair one. Sure if the animals are pests on private property use them. They shouldn’t be used on public land in my opinion.
BRAVO, can't stop people with thermals. Good Thermals not real flash in warm weather done that in regards in culling local land for fallow and hoppers and rabbits. Thermals are for lazy shooters not hunters and BAD shots. Keep it up
It should be illegal to use thermal devices on public land. Those who take trophy deer with a thermal and claim it as some sort of achievement need to wake up to themselves.
now days its all about how much money you have, not the way of trying old school, with money you can buy a head and so on ,not good in my way of hunting , makes it harder for normal hunting
Next will be AI integration to do the scanning for you. Add gps texting an autonomous tripod and you wont even have to leave camp until a good stag is spotted
I went out and got a flash thermal straight away then when i went hunting with it both deer that i took i seen them the old fashioned way with the binos stalking up to them 1 of the deer dropped on the spot the other ran off 100m so i used the thermal to find it which i did my opinion is they are here now and you either get on board the bus or you get ran over by it iam sure some people were upset with other's using fish finders then it was live scopes now its just natural to use them
Fish finders 😅 really. I won't hate on anyone using them responsible but if you go out for a weekend and take 8 stags because it's now easy your a dick. Not saying you do that but people do
@06hunter54 maybe some context mite help i have only been on 1 hunt with the thermal and i do intend to use it to find deer but it just so happened the hunt i used it on i didn't see any deer with it both deer i seen as I was stalking to a spot where I was going to glass and scan the 1st deer I seen i poleaxed in the neck so it dropped on the spot the second one I hit as it was running off it pushed into thick scrub so I used the thermal to find it and it wasn't dead I had hit it in the rump so it was slowly walking off
When experienced hunters start using these devices to their full potential, any hunter starting out using fair chase ethical practices will have zero chance of a mature stag. Then new hunters will succumb to buying one and will never learn how to hunt. Hunting clubs should be ashamed, they should take a stance that it doesn't align with their ethics and should be shunned. But they won't and so begins a division of members. Those that use and those that dont. Give it a few years to see the effects of not only the lack of mature stags but also the division of clubs as thermal hunters stand up at meetings and talk about how they scanned a face with tgeir thermal and found this big stag. Arthur Bentley trophy will be a joke from now on. Imo the worst change we've experienced so far. Wait for pest status and no hunting allowed in NP to follow
@@ZebrasSambarhuntingAdventures 💯 % agree
Silencers are more important not for poaching but to protect hearing
Ridiculous, if you are worried about that then maybe go play golf. We dont need silencers. Only poachers do.
@06hunter54 why is legal in nz and england?
Not a great reply. Hearing loss is real, so is tinnitus .
@@frankennis2947 if worried wear ear protection.
@@23860 suppressors should be a No Brainer gents.
G'day Hilldog I've never mentioned this story to anyone, now I'm old school in a lot of things, too many to say, I do have ethics, here goes, back in 2005 I was up in the high country coming up out of a gully system in the dark, left it a bit late you know how it is, had my head torch on heard a stick crack and found another hunter with those night vision goggles and a bow anyway after a short chat we parted not on the best of terms, but he say he wasn't the only one using nvg,s. So as you say it is what it is, but it is up to the individual hunter how ethical they want to be. Cheers for a great chanel, as always a balanced discussion.
thats quite a while ago an early on for NV stuff but theres no doubt it was out there-- that is there kind of excuse though, "everyone else is doing it" , ive had one guy say "its just the same as usin binoculars" , that was piss funny.
I agree with you mate. Thermals should be for pest management purposes only . Hunters need to remember the ethics of fair chase and up hold those. If we abandon those principles it just becomes killing not hunting
Hey Hilldogs
Agree on the current situation,It was going to be hard to follow suit with NSW making legal years ago. And shops not putting a restriction or special class of licence on them years ago. The horse had already bolted. After being involved with the hunting exhibitions for the last handful of years you could just tell how popular they were getting and what they will be today. The worst is seeing people out cruising the lakes early morning and late at night and you know exactly what they are doing
martymannn, the shop$$ had nothing to do with it, the GMA proberly could of to bring in some kind of regulation around it -- but yesss, horse well an truely bolted, think it won the cup yesterday
hooroo!
very divisive topic. I agree with your thoughts. It won't be too far down the track that authentic hunting will be viewed more as "pest control" for the government, a numbers game. Gma harvest reports already essentially do this. At some point all this will be used against us.
@@venaticus9944 yeo I agree the GMA report is nothing to do with management but rather a tally. We are so far from a management discussion it's not funny.
Thanks 👍
I suppose that I was lucky that I chose to always hunt deer ethically at a young age.Rifle,binoculars,map/gps and the knowledge that I gained over the years up the bush was all I needed.I see more and more shooters wanting to take the easy road to improve their chances of taking that elusive big stag.What a sad situation we now find ourselves in with the introduction of thermal devices now legal on public land.PS-A very sad day for hunters.
i agree with it being a sad notion for the sambar hunting public land victoria chapter. as Zeb said, the book will close soon enough at this rate.
They have thrown fair chase out the window. Dont understand why we are paying game licenses when they so badly are gagging to make them a pest. Thermals on private sure no drama whatever but yeah not a fan of the new rules…still could of been alot worse i guess.
Side note i live out bush in a double story house, often have deer feeding in the yard late at night. The amount of times ive woken up to go to the loo, looked out the upstairs window and had a deer 50 yards away outside snap its head and look straight at me even when im upstairs walking quietly and behind glass is insane. They are truely incredible.
They dont want to hunt. They just want the head for the minimal amount of effort. Doesn't matter the size or how many. They take em all. The ones who actually like to get out in the bush and hunt aren't changing their ways. But the Melbourne boys up every weekend with all the toys dont give a shit. I think you would also find these are also the blokes who will take them 700+ across the gully so with a long-range calibre and a high powered thermal they have no chance
My submission wasn't in support of daytime thermals. It's still not clear to me why they changed. I assumed a blanket ban made enforcement of poachers easier to enforce. Staring at a screen isn't a my idea of a good day out in the bush. Im not a huge glassing fan either. I love getting in close in thick scrub kicking them out of bed. Dedicated hunters are still going to score the majority and the best deer no matter how much others spend.
i think the best deer are gone, an it will continue that the 'bad' guys will get the 'big guys' every time. there is a theme when someones consistently pulling out big racks in the past 5 years say, prior to that alot of stiff eared trophy photos too ;) - i think for bush stalkers there will just be a slight longer pause between drinks if doing it properly an fairly etc.
I understand exactly what you’re saying hd but if it was a choice between thermals or chopper culls I think the latter is far worse and wasteful.
i get ya, the worst part is though, the chopper option shouldnt even be in this conversation to be honest !? :) cheers
Good vid mate.
Thanks 👍
When i saw the change in regs, it left me baffled mate. It's upsetting, disappointing, and leaves us feeling like GMA have forgotten everything they ever worked for.
Anyone who doesnt agree with thermals on public land are now just viewed as dinosaurs. As you say, add in the chopper and govt culling, alpine hunting is going to change for the worst.
Sad state of affairs.
howdy Cob, i agree with ya
100% agree mate.
Hope you’ve been well? Cheers 🍻
Might add.. yes, it is what it is. There’s still a point detesting this ‘advancement’ though. Although there is young fellas coming into the sport they won’t all reach for the quick and easy. Having these conversations highlights the skillset earned by the old school ways of hunting deer.
I must admit your vid title had me thinking kata and ata thermals at first, it peaked my interest much more than the heat seeking type!
Nevertheless, a good chat and very valid points.
all good mark, pretty good hey- yeah apologies on the kata confusion ... maybe next time- alls well in your hood? cheers man
@@HillDogTV
All is good mate, two young ones now so busy times. 4 year old loves hunting and riding so it’s good fun! found his first Casty last week.
Take care and warm barrels mate!
Yeh I agree the concept of people being shot with the use of thermals is just grasping at straws.
That’s not the issue, it’s taking the fair chase out of hunting.
To equate thermal use to the same as technology improvements and it’s still fair, is just not the correct.
yeah i agree fully regarding the technology improvements being the same as a Thermal device. as i mentioned to another commenter, i apologise for not digging into every nook an cranny an covering the complete arguement or discussion points but i got across the Gist i was wanting too- tehcnically i am wrong saying Compound Bows came before Leverguns... :)
@ yeh I was agreeing with the fact I see the argument of it being a technological advancement but I don’t think it’s a fair one.
Sure if the animals are pests on private property use them. They shouldn’t be used on public land in my opinion.
BRAVO, can't stop people with thermals. Good Thermals not real flash in warm weather done that in regards in culling local land for fallow and hoppers and rabbits. Thermals are for lazy shooters not hunters and BAD shots. Keep it up
Hey bro I'm not a fan of thermals personally. Take the thermal away from these new hunters and they can't hunt deer......
It should be illegal to use thermal devices on public land. Those who take trophy deer with a thermal and claim it as some sort of achievement need to wake up to themselves.
i agree regarding Public Land.
Is your wall art for sale? You are king HD
now days its all about how much money you have, not the way of trying old school, with money you can buy a head and so on ,not good in my way of hunting , makes it harder for normal hunting
Next will be AI integration to do the scanning for you. Add gps texting an autonomous tripod and you wont even have to leave camp until a good stag is spotted
Send the drone out and wait for instructions .
ha, i wont laugh!!
Mate it's the same as live target in fishing. It takes away the fun . Stand on a boat watching a screen. I don't agree with it .
I went out and got a flash thermal straight away then when i went hunting with it both deer that i took i seen them the old fashioned way with the binos stalking up to them 1 of the deer dropped on the spot the other ran off 100m so i used the thermal to find it which i did my opinion is they are here now and you either get on board the bus or you get ran over by it iam sure some people were upset with other's using fish finders then it was live scopes now its just natural to use them
Fish finders 😅 really. I won't hate on anyone using them responsible but if you go out for a weekend and take 8 stags because it's now easy your a dick. Not saying you do that but people do
So need thermals to find a dead deer? Why? How?
@06hunter54 maybe some context mite help i have only been on 1 hunt with the thermal and i do intend to use it to find deer but it just so happened the hunt i used it on i didn't see any deer with it both deer i seen as I was stalking to a spot where I was going to glass and scan the 1st deer I seen i poleaxed in the neck so it dropped on the spot the second one I hit as it was running off it pushed into thick scrub so I used the thermal to find it and it wasn't dead I had hit it in the rump so it was slowly walking off
@@crestcutter2729 hmm, I dunno about this cresty .. haha , but hey, you do you
@@HillDogTV maybe you could host a live stream or something id be happy to speak and state my case
i agree mate , hunting public land should have been left alone .