The Book Club: The Book of Job with Owen Anderson | The Book Club
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- If you lost every good thing in your life, would you still praise God? The Book of Job from the Old Testament is considered one of the great masterpieces of early literature. Michael Knowles is joined by Owen Anderson, Professor of Religion and Philosophy at Arizona State University, to examine one of the Bible's most profound stories, which explores the issues of human suffering, the nature of God, and the meaning of life.
#bookofjob #michaelknowles
As a descendant of survivors of the Armenian genocide and I’m sure for the Jewish holocaust survivors as well the Book of Job really hits home. Many, my grandfather included lost everything they had - land, home, family, but rebuilt their lives on the hills of their pain & suffering with courage and faith enduring. 🙏🏼
Biden, only 2 things right.
You found a professor from a university with "state" in its name and he speaks of the joy of knowing God??? We are not entirely lost. Great conversation!
Well, for a breakthrough understanding of the Book of Job, read the novel “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Advanced. Good.
I study English as my second language and when I was reading a book, I came across this expression “Job’s comforter” and that’s how I got interested in The Book of Job!
This episode is such a solace to the soul.
Thank you, such a great conversation, on Job!
31:37. That’s what Tolkien captured so beautifully in LOTR (and really all of the canon). That melancholic beauty of Good coming from bad. Although people by being good sometimes let evil live (Golem), by his being evil and while Frodo was failing, the ring falls with him. Good was accomplished and there was no hero in that amazing story, except God. Tolkien did Him a great honor in writing that. There’s an excellent philosophical overview of it somewhere on UA-cam. Unfortunately, no hyperlink (would trigger spam) or it would be linked here.
It just blew me away when I realized that Elihu was not required by God to make a sacrifice. That God did not say he was wrong as the other three were. It made me sit up and pay attention to what Elihu said.
After years of claiming to be a christian, the Holy Spirit wooed me into a relationship with JESUS, by asking, ‘don’t ya think you should know the One whom you claim to believe’. That was 8 years ago and I’ve read through the bible every year since, truly trusting/believing in the LORD JESUS in 2016 & still seeking to know Him more. The last chapters in Job are some of my favorites. To think that the One who created all loves me & made a way for me to come to Him, WOW! I’m currently in the book of Job and been seeking clarification on some scriptures in the book, its amazing how GOD has put video’s & people in my path to discuss and share on the book of Job. Thank you for covering Job, & praise to the LORD ALMIGHTY for answering my prayers!
FYI, my life verse is Isaiah 55:8&9, it tells me to trust Him regardless of the circumstance.
It's a shame god can't do something about world poverty.
You must be Baptist.
Excellent discussion on some of the deepest theological questions of all time
The 2014 Russian film _Leviathan_ is based on Job, it's very good. Anyway, great chat gentlemen, thank you.
Probably a terrible, modern mess of the beautiful story. Humanity, especially in fake hollywood ruins everything. Hollywood is great at dumbing down the poetic and glorious to the emotional and trite.
All those chapters in which Job debated the merits of good and evil with his three friends could have been spent debating the same with God himself. THAT would be truly knowing God-and exactly what God finally provoked.
“Delighting” in God’s existence and love is a mindless substitute-and something Job already knew how to do.
😊❤
i think one important factor that was left out is the moral of where we are without God. "the lord giveth and taketh away". we must remember that all we have is a gift from God. our life, our possessions, everything. so if we lose something we are not going from a 0 to a -1. we are going from 100% to 99%.
If you have something, presumably, you're not at zero. But, I get your point.
Please have as your next book and guest be The Lord of the Rings and Peter Kreeft. Awesomeness would ensue!
That's already out there. Seek and you shall find.
Omgosh, I didn’t think I could leave a comment here! Thank you sooo much for this talk, I learned a lot! You are such a gift Michael, God bless you.
Thank you both.
MORE OF THIS!
Excellent and very insightful conversation. Thank you.
For a long time I didn't care much for the book of Job. It seemed droll and repetitive. But after really applying myself to understanding the lessons and meanings, it is one of my favorite books of the bible. Very deep lessons to help me live a Godly life.
A lot of the "middle" can be categorized as human bickering. I can't think of anything more irritating than humans bickering, especially humans who claim righteousness. I leave that middle fat to the philosophers. I only care about the ultimate transformation of Job by God. God's response is so compelling and 🤯. I love that God doesn't want to be questioned, but instead questions Job (us). THAT'S the great choice of free will: not that 'are we chosen', but what do we choose. God or not God. Everything hinges on this choice. So, yes, I'm pro-choice and I choose God.
8 Things Jesus said:
"The world hates me because I testify about it that it's works are evil"
"Don't be surprised when the world hates you, it hated me first"
"If any man looks at a woman with lust he has already committed adultery in his heart with her."
"Unless you eat my body and drink my blood you have no life in you"
"Those that believe the Son have eternal life, those that do not obey the Son will not see life but the wrath of God abides on them"
"Unless you believe in me you will die in your sins"
"Unless you repent you will likewise perish"
Matthew 11:28-30
"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
(a yoke is a collar worn by cattle, it is the point where the ropes are attached allowing them to pull a plow or a cart.)
Read your Bible or you will be misinformed.
I think unknowingly lovecraft said a lot about the Godless and how they fear the unknowable. It's basically the pain of the pagan that knows the world is vast, but does not know his maker.
Great interview. Dr. Anderson was a real blessing to me.
The awe of God. Awe is needed. Jason silva had a nice video about Awe.
Reading a commentary on the Book of Romans, on who can redeem the sin of man, Paul is the one who finally documents the answer to Job's question.
More like this please...
Fear God & so you fear others not so much.
In God we trust & in others not so much.
That was very educational
Really good!!!
We are all sinners, and we sin every day. It's asking for forgiveness daily in our personal relationship. Belief in God/Christ is not just about doctrine but about the relationship and accepting responsibility for our behaviors and the consequences. A lot of people want to use the Bible to justify what they do by using just one or 2 passages/verses, but they fail to understand that what is said is in context with the whole book they are reading. The study is verse by verse, chapter by chapter, and book by book. I can take anything out of context to prove what I want.
Forgiveness is best achieved through the Holy sacrament of Confession. Otherwise, it's just blathering to yourself.
I'm so excited!
More please!
I love reading the book of job
How do you get to hell?
Very simple: claim that you're innocent.
How do you get to heaven?
Very simple: Admit that you're not Innocent, you're guilty and ask for mercy.
How to know if you're guilty or not?
Simply: Compare your life to the Ten Commandments God gave you in the Bible.
Everyone agrees that if people followed the ten commandments there would be no need for governments or police.
Do not lie.
Do not steal.
Do not commit adultery.
Do not insult God by using his name as a cuss word.
There are six more but let's just leave it at that.
How many lies have you told in your life?
Have you ever taken anything that didn't belong to you?
Jesus said, if you look at a women lustfully you've already committed adultery in your heart with that woman.
How many times a day do you do that?
Do you use God's name as a cuss word?
Would you do that with your own mother's name?
If you answer these questions honestly you know that you're guilty.
God can justly punish you and send you to hell.
Ask him for mercy.
His name is Jesus.
It's as simple as this, The Ten Commandments are called the moral law. You and I broke God's laws. Jesus paid the fine.
The fine is death.
Ezekiel 18:20 -
"The soul who sins shall die.
That's why Jesus had to die on the cross for our sins. This is why God is able to give us Mercy.
Option A.
You die for your own sins.
Option B.
Ask for mercy and accept that Jesus died on the cross for you.
❤
*Honest questions are welcome.*l
Suffering brought me to God!
Why is there evil in the world. That is the hubris of thinking you are not filled with evil thoughts.
Let’s goooooooooo
Actually, for a breakthrough understanding of the Book of Job, read the novel “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Advanced. Good.
Why does evil exist?
Because of love.
If no alternatives existed then Free Will is pointless, which makes love pointless. To love another, you must have the option to forsake him, otherwise it is simply obligation. Hence, the Lord desires us to love Him, thus He allows us the option of sin and be evil.
This does not exclude suffering, which exists for a rather different reason. Suffering, and recovering forms a cycle design to improve our condition. Consider exercise for a moment.
When you workout, you break your muscles down, which causes pain and may limit mobility. When the muscle recovers, it is stronger than before with more fibers connecting each individual cell. In addition, more energy is burnt, the continuous change in the body environment, and discipline of exercise all promote a healthier you. But to achieve this state, you first must suffer.
Next consider the economy for a moment.
When the economy runs strong, men take more risks under the assumption they will not fail. Those who did fall, were simply unlucky or foolish or both. The economy lifts them up to new heights. However, this causes complacency and degeneration of morals within companies. The risks move from calculated and for profit, to showy, and nearly always at a loss.
When the economy corrects or falls, then men become more conservative under the fear of poverty. Those who succeed, did so due to critical study, wisdom, and some luck. The economic pressure breaks any who overleveraged during the boon times. Their destruction acts as fertilizer for the next generation to rise up, and take hold of the market.
I have a copy of the Bible edition Michael has in hand, and I'm impressed he can read the minute print without glasses ... or a magnifying glass, for that matter.
A LOT OF US DO NEGLECT GOD, WE SHOULD SEEK HIM EVERY MORNING. HECK I CHAT WITH HIM ALL DAY!
Chatting? Lol! On what platform, and wha's his username?
I highly suggest Jung’s book on the subject.
That was real good, you should do more books of the bible, and it would be nice if your guest of a clergyman; that would have a great perspective.
🤦
You should have Professor Anderson back to discuss Jack Mills work, God: a Biography.
By seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling, the world around us & ourselves we know God & we have science, math, geometry, engineering, natural health & healing. The foundation of all that epistemological reasoning is the sense based METAPHYSICS. 2+2=4. That which is. Tat tvam asi. Knowing God by knowing what is, what exists. God, truth, reality, what is. That. Absolute truth is something we know by experience, trial & error, testing, living in reason. God doesn't just geometrize, God is what just is. Basic reality metaphysics. What is self-evident.
@@SydneyBell-eh6je ... oh.
Geometrize...? I've been around 50+ years and have never read that particular word? in all my life. B+ for the effort.
Can anyone tell me the name of the painting in this video’s thumbnail?
I was always taught that the Leviathan and Behemoth were dinosaurs which would work if Job occurs before the flood.
The species that can be closest in its appearance would be a type of Sauropod 🦕 I hope anyway, because dinosaurs would’ve been awesome creatures and they show how infinitesimally awesome God is!
Job is the oldest book time line wise in the TNK
Dinosaurs are never mentioned in the Bible, because the writers of the various books didn't know about them, as their existence was not discovered until the 19th century CE. The behemoth was most likley either an elephant or a hippopotamus, while the leviathan was probably a crocodile, which makes sense considering the region this was written.
Also: There was no global flood, as there is no evidence for such. The story of the flood in Genesis was a copy of some earlier Babylonian and Sumerian legends.
@@redblaze8700The Bible mentions behemoth and says it has a tail like a cedar tree which is a very large tree
@@joellukeovercomingvictoryt8183 Depending on interpretation that could also refer to the shape of the tail which looks like a cedar tree, in which case an elephant would fit this discription.
I realized years ago that the question of evil and suffering in the world is easily explained rationally. Hopefully it's obvious that evil done by humans is the result of free will. Without free will the whole enterprise is pointless. But then there is unearned, random, natural suffering from disease, accidents, catastrophes. Especially when it comes to children. "Why would God let innocent children suffer?" Think about what kind of world you're expecting. Nothing bad happens to children? Until what age? 16? 21? How would that make any sense? It would be injecting magic in the natural world. So how about good people suffering and bad people prospering? Imagine that world for a bit. Be nice and do good things and good things happen to you. Be mean and evil and bad things happen to you. Who would choose evil? Who wouldn't choose good? No free will again. The world is the way it is because it HAS to be this way if humans are to be tested and prove their worth... to God... and to themselves.
This is unbiblical nonsense. God is not permissive in evil merely; He makes it come to pass Himself. Free will (after the Fall, that is) is a man-made notion and contradictory to Scripture.
@@TheNabOwnzz Where in scripture does it say man has no free will? That he makes no decisions. That he never chooses good vs evil.
[edit: You sound like a crazy person. Are you a crazy person?]
@@thanksfernuthin Genesis 6:5, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1;4-5, John 15:16, 2 Timothy 1:9 etc. The list is endless. He makes decisions, but he can only make evil decisions. Man is wholly depraved (Psalms 51:5, Genesis 6:5, Jeremiah 17:9) and cannot will good. The entirety of Scripture rests on God actively ruling the world and ordaining things ere the beginning of time (1 Ephesians 4;5 etc), and only He can draw us to Him (John 6:44); no one has the will to "choose" Him by himself. The elect are chosen by God; they do not choose themselves. This free will notion is confuted constantly throughout Scripture itself, particularly by Paul and John.
@@TheNabOwnzz "He makes decisions, but he can only make evil decisions." Well... even that's free will. One wonders what the point of scripture is if God decides who the chosen are. It appears you and a few others have teased out a very ugly view of God and reality. I'd wish you well with it but that would be pointless as well according to you.
@@thanksfernuthin You don't seem to understand what you yourself mean with "free will", then. If you mean that man acts without compulsion (at least in evil), then yes, his will is free. But if you mean that he can freely choose good, then it most certainly is not free. Man is by necessity bound to evil and only God, by His Spirit, can renew this will to will good (which the unconverted cannot do). But the willing of good is solely a work of the Spirit, not of man. And merely because these things are preordained does not mean everything is pointless. You are presupposing omniscience for everyone. Since we cannot know what is preordained (but only God), and since instruments are used to lead us to our preordained end, none of these are "pointless". You've most likely barely ever read the Bible, since you have a most juvenile and erroneous view thereof. What you spout out is nothing more than carnal reason and conscientious nonsense; it has nothing to do with Scripture, which you've scarcely ever read.
The book of Ecclesiastes has the same appeal for the same reason(s).
Job 31:1"I have made a covenant with my eyes;
How then could I look at a virgin?"
Beautiful work, Thank You
PRAGERU!!!
Is Prager going to cover any New Testament books??
Great idea! Book covers! 📔
Probably not since it's owned by an orthodox jew
@@TheBearYid im always amazed how generally intelligent jews are but not enuf to see the light of jesus. they were all lied to by the pharisees and kept that tradition. very metaphorical of today's politics
@tomster7574 deauteronomy chapters 31 - 32 the last words HaShem gave to us before we left Moshe rabbeinu behind. Put yourself in the shoes of our ancestors who witnessed HaShem upon sanai and heard the first two commandments from his lips. Our warning has a very special sentence in it from HaShem to us. Do not forget I alone brought you through the desert there was no foreign diety with me , do not pray to any gods that your forefathers didn't know.
I dont think you know what the pharisees are in reality vs how they are portrayed by Paul and the authors of the gospels.
We dont hate Christians at all we don't hate Jesus but what HaShem promised us and what Jesus delivered were pretty far off if not the complete opposite. We are a people known for idolatry molech , baal, the Golden calf. We had the event with Ezekiel with the priests of baal infront of every jew present to witness HaShem ignite his sacrifice over baals and the next day we returned to the priests of baal.
So when a jew is serious about having a 1 on 1 personal relationship with our creator we take notice when he says do not follow any gods our forefathers didn't know. Jc and the trinity is not something anyone would have known about before Jesus.
Read all of deuteronomy 16 , 31 and 32 and put yourself in our shoes it might provide a nice fresh perspective from G-ds servants and first born child.
Much love my friend ❤️
ב''ה
@@tomster7574You could say that about most groups, most deny the gospel from every tribe. The ones that do become Christian are amazing believers who are on fire for God
Very interesting. However, I would like to know more about how "All the Sons of God came together and the Evil one came forward" why would the Evil one be around the Sons of God and also in God's midst? In heaven? I always read this and thought about
It
Another literalist seeking perfection. Can't you just accept the Word of God and trust Him?
Michael, you are Roman Catholic, why did you have a professor with a Calvinist theology? May I suggest you read Pope John Paul’s Salvifici Doloris, it is a shorter read than St Gregory the Great’s book.
Dennis PragerU, you are a jew and you have Christians/Catholics on your show... 😂😂😂
@@RogerWillis1Exactly, instead of the myopic viewpoint of reform theology, a cross denominational discussion would have been more in keeping with the platform’s educational goals.
I don't know about you, but I love and respect people of great faith in any shape or color.
When I was younger, the lesson I took away from the book of Job was not the one intended. If Job had been mediocre, he might've saved himself a lot of hardship. If you keep your head down and don't get noticed, you won't end up with a target on your back. The ending after God restores Job's possessions and gives him more children always bothered me. Sure, he's got ten more kinds now, but wasn't he at all attached to the first set?
it was metaphorical. just like creation is to evolution. they both start the same way, the big bang is the same as and then there was light.
@@tomster7574There's no indication whatsoever that Job is supposed to be taken metaphorically. And Genesis is obviously not metaphorical either.
@@TheNabOwnzz and that is only your opinion. cant back it up. but i can, jesus taught many things using parables. same thing.
@@tomster7574 I don't have to back it up. It's a story with no mention made of it being fictitious. Christ's parables are beforehand or afterwards always mentioned to be fictitious. And Genesis is obviously literal, since the many references to it can only be taken literally (such as Paul saying sin entered into the world by Adam etc.) And there is no indication either that Job is metaphorical.
@@TheNabOwnzz no, its not obvious. its just your opinion. you will see, on judgment day, we both will.
The people asked Samuel for a king even though they already had the law given by God.
All doctrine unique to the Catholic church is unnecessary if Christ's sacrifice is complete.
If Christ's sacrifice was perfect and he took away all sin past, present, and future than...
Penance has no purpose.
Purgatory has no point.
Absolution is unnecessary.
Need I go on?
Yes, Christ's sacrifice on the cross is complete and Final. The Bible confirms this repeatedly.
Flee this Anti-church.
Trust In Christ Alone.
Trust in him alone like you would trust a parachute. You can add nothing to a parachute by flapping your arms. Just as you can add nothing to the perfect and finished sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross for all of your sins. Do not cheapen the saviors work by adding mans tradition on to it.
Find a church that does not withhold the drinking of the wine from its lowly non-priest membership.❤)
Jesus. 335
Mary. 1
Mary was so important to the apostles when they were writing their letters to the New Testament churches that she was only mentioned once after Jesus had ascended to heaven. (Acts 1:14)
Jesus on the other hand was named 335 times. Mary was clearly unimportant to the early apostles. She has no role in salvation. She was an honorable young woman from Nazareth. She obeyed God.
1.
Scripture does **not** teach the idea that we need to send anyone for us to the throne of God to ask for grace or mercy, anyone including Mary. On the contrary, we are warmly invited to approach God's throne.
Hebrews 4:14-16 ESV -
*Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.*
2.
That little word "until" shows that Mary was not perpetually a virgin. And, yes, it is in the original Greek. Grammar is not complex.
Matthew 1:24-25 ESV -
*When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.*
3.
Jesus exalted the word of God and obedience to it above his family members.
Matthew 12:46-50 ESV -
*While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.*
This is a companion passage to Matthew 12.
Luke 11:27-28 ESV -
*As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”*
4.
She herself glorified her savior. She was not a sinless person.
Luke 1:47 ESV -
*and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,*)
The Wisdom of God is None Other than Jesus Christ, His Son. God's Creation does not reveal His Salvation to man, it only reveals a Creator. It is only The Cross of Christ and His Empty Tomb by which our Salvation was secured for all sinners, saves us from the wrath we deserve. Repent of your sins and recieve the Gospel which assures us of the Forgiveness of our sins. Amen.
Host is only in it for fun
purgatory = suffering for more sins after death.
the gospel = Jesus died for ALL of a believer's sins, past, present, and future
papists are heretical. dump romanism now! believe in the gospel of grace alone/faith alone/christ alone/bible alone
Christians completely ignoring the fact that HaSatan has no ability of his own. He needs permission to act upon job. And job recognizes that the good and the evil come from G-D.
Kinda goes against the whole devil is the god of this earth and jesus has to defeat him haha
Proof Satan has access to the Throne of God.
This was such a disappointing discussion. The nuances weren't discussed, especially with respect to the four source documentary hypothesis. Inferences were made that were later additions like satan being the same as the serpent who tempted Eve. This was the view of some sects of Judaism, which Christians also adopted, after Zoroastrian influence during the liberation from Babylonian captivity.
Christine Hayes has an excellent Yale lectures series available here on UA-cam. Of course, the Great Courses also offers such but for a price (not sponsored) 😆
Video too long; did not watch! Going from great 5 minutes long videos to 34 minutes long videos is a mistake!
Sorry you have such a short attention span.
@@lovescarguitar a day has only 24 hours and I am a busy person!
@@bingeltubeso watch 5 min of it per day until you’ve finished it 😂😂😂
@@amandakrause9394 I bet you are a failed comedian! 🙂
The Book of Job teaches me that God does not uphold his true servants. Job lost his family... Because God cares nothing for what we mortals hold most dear... God gave him 10 more kids and a wife... But the fact remains, God allowed Jobs former wife and 10 kids to all be killed... Looking at all of Gods Prophets and Apostles, I see God allowing his most faithful servants to suffer and die... I hate the book of Job...
Why not just try zip recruiter?
Book of Job? 🤔 Two things millennials don't understand.
@@secretbassrigswhat's a book?
@@adamoconnor8958hat dusty thing you use to prop up the 25" TV hooked up to your playstation that looks like a really thick oldschool game informer without any pictures
@@secretbassrigstwo things, nice
@@jonathonschottOhhhh that's what those things are.
Why is this guy going for a cartoon villian look with that mustache?😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂Anything to say about the actual discussion? Instead of ad hominem personal attacks?
the Book of Job needed more consideration surely Michael . those of us in 3rd world cant bargain. please no offense
So, when Satan takes away Job's wealth and his family, Job's wife is still there. ...and Satan said, "Nah, we're good. She needs to be with Job for further punishment!"😀😆🤣
So God and Satan ruined Job's life and killed his innocent family just to prove a point?
JOBES WAR!
My problem is that job children remain dead, and made me question how is god good, and honestly old testament god is just a jerk.
So, what u want?
@@samueldani-gr6ge I don't understand.
The Book of Career is more rewarding.
😢
The most important bible story ever.....
God tortures a good, honest, decent man to win a bet he made with Devil.
Dr Michael Heiser does a much better exposition of the Book of Job.
Why is this poiltical channel covering God's cruel bet?
Cruel by what standard?
@@smartsimplefit Torturing a man undeservedly and killing his family to prove a point is a bit much for a being of Ultimate Good, isn't it?
@@kazmiller96 Never thought of Prager U as political. Sound like a talking point to me...How much do you watch this channel?
@@seamssewvintage I check in often. I have also seen their to his such as the one defending the invasion of Iraq, their shilling for Big Oil, and the video they took down defending the traitor Robert E Lee.
@@kazmiller96No man, even one as righteous as Job, even deserves to live. That we do is more than we deserve. Your error is you are deeming your own conscience greater than God's judgment.
The story of Job is horrific, this supposed good and just god getting into a bet to test a good man in Job, including the murder of his children along with other ills. What if a friend of yours kidnapped your family, murdered them, in order to "test you" and your love and trust of them? We would be horrified, well this story is horrific and any supposed good god that allows this suffering, for whatever point, is a horrible and vile being. But of course this is not an actual god (if there are any) but the story telling of those trying to explain away suffering
The book job proves god is insane