Really hoping we get a separate upload of Sajam showing off BS in Injustice 1 from the same stream. Did not know that "pig tech" and "dumpster tech" were real things until now
MkX tremor was probably the most broken character I've ever played. Although I didn't play him in a broken way at all since that was one of my first fgs.
Yeah, top 1 and it wasn't even close, even with alien existing. Which really says a lot about the top tiers of mkx, very tekken 5 levels of just bullsh*t everywhere. Incredible game.
@@orionfire1947 yea they played mk11 and Injustice 2 so safe that the games kind of sucked. They just turned into zoner fests that were extremely boring to play.
@@zato-1766 i absolutely agree and its a shame because if you make one mistake its game over because the systems actively punish you for losing in both games. Just a tragedy of its own creation
Batman should be in anyone can cook. The bat drones made that character kinda braindead, even in the context of injustice. Specially before the DLC characters like Batgirl that just out-maneuver projectiles came out. I literally played Batman blindfolded for a set as a dare and nearly got a perfect. All his combos lead to knock down, you call bats, do a safe jump that landed left or right, do a overhead or low string, and you could either keep it safe or convert off the audio que of them blocking and the combo would be long enough that you could get another bat out by the end.
I have a similar mindset on believing in my characters. also most games, if a character is truly bad, it’s probably because they are lacking tools, and tools are fun. I like being able to do a lot of stuff or having a tool for multiple things. It feels powerful. I’m not forcing top tier, I’m just playing what I like that is also good.
@@OreoTheWolf he made a couple of comments at the beginning about how Vergil wasn't top 3 and it sounds like downplaying for a moment but he explains Vergil at the end better
a tier list i can kinda get behind, hell yea 🤟 edit: i think it's interesting to think how different people would interpret 🧐 these tiers i say i have played "I Carried" characters, but because their quality of life/cohesion was trash 💔 --not because they lacked (much) raw power
Getting an idea of character stength on blazblue is probably much much easier than skullgirls. I'm only guessing but skullgirls is honestly the most complicated fighting game i know of. Anything sajam might say is a pure guess is what i think happened so he didn't include anyone from there.
Crazy Sajam only just uploaded something he streamed over a year ago, why was he talking about Strive Sin before he even came out as if he had played him?
Man thinking back to OG fighting games and how some characters just didn't work brings me back. Some of those KOF rosters made me question if the devs just hated someone and made them into the game.
Sajam is, it think, trying to approach this from a balanced perspective. It may also well be that he doesn't really have those Characters to a point where he feels his reporting would be accurate. Fair play. :)
@@kevingriffith6011 Good point. i dunno, maybe he just doesn't like those games? i know the style puts some people off, as well as the lack of anything that was really new at all. i never picked them up either and i buy *most* Fighting Games so i can see why these failed to gain purchase on his mind.
sajam is a top tier enthusiast (good for him) for real tho, I feel like there's the aspect of how comfortable the player feels with a certain character, when you get lucky and your favorite archetype has a very strong character, shit feels too easy almost of course you might play grapplers but then you deserve to suffer so who cares
Injustice 2 Batman was my best character, and I never took him to the lab once. He was a combination of fun and powerful that meant you could just pick him up, play him any way you want and cook
I have to wonder how this list would shift if was going either by all of the first versions of the character or all of the latest versions, especially since release versions still tend towards degeneracy in the modern patch era. I feel like Hit would definitely still be last either way though.
I’m going to let my salt take host of my body for a moment and say that Nine deserves to be in the anyone can cook category. There was a time when she was ALL you would see online, at least in CF 1.0, and I thought maybe there was something difficult about her. Sure, maybe memorizing all of her spell recipes was difficult to manage, and maybe now i’d rank her in they did the heavy lifting, but in 1.0 all of her normals recovered stupid quick so she was hard to punish, Kunzite was the god spell, it was fast, it tracked in front and behind her, it was plus a million on block, it counted as the first hit being an overhead if i remember correctly, with the second being a mid, did a huge chunk of damage, it fatal countered on counter hit, ground bounced if it caught you in the air amongst loads of other things, the spell was so good they had to drastically nerf it and buff every single one of her other ones to make them worth using. It was like Testament’s arbiter sign on steroids. She had some of her hurtboxes enlarged too because for some reason on top of having far reaching buttons she needed to be hard to hit on top of that, and she had a teleport that recovered quickly as well to boot. Imagine some unholy fusion of Axl, Happy Chaos, and and Nago, but all condensed into the tiny body of May, and equally as hard to hit, and thats the best way I can describe how fighting her felt.
I think Captain Cold from injustice 2 was busted but I wasnt anywhere near the level sonicfox was using him at (special mention for black manta I think he's great)
@ 7:51 Marvel 3 Dante or Marvel Infinite Dante? Both are Super strong, but Infinite Dante, i swear, was unnerfable. i dunno if that's even a word but it sure is a thing where Dante was involved. (i think he was nerfed in *all* of the patches. That's right, *both* of them! xD
One day i should just play some fucked up character for the sake of it just to know how it feels. Out of all of my characters i think baiken is the strongest and she's pretty much just fine.
Injustice 1 having Nightwing was really cool to me at first bc he's one of my favorite comic characters ever so once i learned how he was it made me sad
I'd say any Low HP character with good mobility and pressure vs Grappler with funny big damage is a easily the most miserable matchup in all FGs and they're usually among the most even. Both sides are in agony
Part of the balance is that FGC games are all 1v1, so you either have a varied cast with polarizing matchups, or a boring cast with close matchups. Because of that, results based tier lists are hard because results change a lot based on the bracket distribution. This is why 40-60 matchups in fighting games are super acceptable, I've even see people consider 30-70s playable. This also means tier listing hard since meta week more directly influence data. If character A beats B, amd alot of people play B, A week look broken. However if C beats A, C will do worse in the tourney, even if it beats the top player by listing to the higher number of B players. In other games, with way more parts of the game, which as team mates, macro movements, and ability combos, 1v1 matchups are mitigate. For instance, an assassin vs adc 1v1 is like, a 90-10 matchup, but with teammates, Frontline, support, toys becomes completely untrue. The more ways you have to control your destiny, the less inherent disadvantages matter, so outside of really fucked patches, you'll find most characters in most other games are viable at top levels. DOTA especially sees insane cast diversity at the highest levels of play.
Ronin Takeda before the nerfs in MKX had a block infinite on like 3/4ths of the cast. Clearly I outplayed everyone else. EDIT: As someone that definitely was an IJ2 necro for a long time, I'm remembering you played bats earlier rather than later, and that character received nothing but nerfs over the game's lifespan and continued to make top 8s pretty much till MK11. I remember they tried to patch out his vortex about a half dozen times but it just...came back. That character wasn't quite baby mode in that he'd play the game for you, but he was pretty damn close. Supes was pretty honest by comparison, since most people that wanted to play that bullying, footsie orient style played BA and his f12 was just a better string for that, and his frame advantage with trait cancels was stronger. Supes had marginally better zoning in some matchups, but his real strength was his corner vortex with the restand into 4-way guess.
GGS was my first Guilty Gear game, and i can say for certain that 1.0 sol should be in anyone can cook lmao. I made it to the highest floor in the brief time i played the game, i still think i currently have less than 50 hrs in the game, bro definitely carried. Idk how he is now tho haven't really played since then
S1 v.1.0 gran and kat were absolutely busted because they were really easy to play, with high damage combos out of almost every routing and they had either really plus buttons, or really fast punishes that no other character in the game had at that point. Percival was supposed to be the punisher heavy hitter of the game, but why play him when you can play Kat or Gran and skip the whole stock micromanagement. Other character that was ridiculous S1 was Gorilla Blade Lancelot.
It's a bit difficult to follow this tier list if you didn't play the games on the patch that you are ranking them by. A fun follow up video would be ranking these same characters with current patch and comparing viability.
As someone that played both games at the same time; Urien should be higher than Android 16. Urien' headbutt alone could be spammed freely in a lot of matchups and SF5 was exponentially more restrictive and no skill expression compared to DBFZ. Urien might even be above Fulgore - because Fulgore was a strong zoner in a game where a lot of the cast had tools to deal with it or equally broken stuff. Basically, if players are given strong tools and can more easily move as good as the player is, character balance matters less. But when you're being held back by the game engine, character balance becomes a huge factor.
@ 8:41 Why Sajam! i had no idea that you were a Samurai Shodown V Perfect kinda' guy! xD i mean when you're the only Character in a ginormous sword fight with a bow? @ 12:09 Strider isn't about power he's all about the options and versatility. Also, triple jump *never* sucks! Seriously though? NO DarkStalkers? Not even from Savior? o.o
Damn, you're younger than I thought (not commenting on your looks). Is this games that you took seriously at a competitive level, or just games that you were good at. Also I2 Batman is "Anyone Can Cook".
I think it’d be neat to do a list of which characters you think are the most fun and/or a list of characters that you think are most well-suited to your preferred play style as a fighting game player.
Modern Fighting game players get: 1- Reliable training mode to reproduce/lab scenarios 2- Increased/simplified Lineancy to help them with executions (not to mention the MODERN Controls) 3- Good netcode to properly practice match ups with live opponents 4- Balanced rosters in which low tiers are still viable characters to use/play with in tournament settings... All young players can and Will go play team-based games and/or more RNG involved games to justify losses and/or win easier and pay more... just as simply as that
While all of that is true, the fighting game genre is still pretty hard to get into in general as opposed to say getting into FPS games or other genres. And I think it’s simply just because of the amount of time you need to invest into them to really be good. There is so much to learn with fighting games that idk I can understand why so many people never get past that casual level of play, it’s overwhelming how much there is to learn at first especially if your coming from a place where you literally no nothing like you don’t even have the fundamentals down yet
@@jeremyroberts8822Non of that contradicts the point, stating that despite how much modern players get carried by modern design, they will still complain about the difficulty of the genre in 1 way or another... which Includes balancing of the cast ... Is the same reason why not a lot of young people invest time on the genre and prefer EasiER games in modern times as you also mentioned
Starting playing G from Gief. My G isn't good by any stretch but life was so much easier compared to Gief. I felt like Gief had wasted 5 years of my life. He is seriously so bad, but I had gotten use to playing such a bad character and got blind to it.
I love this video idea but... I swear you ran Injustice 1 Superman against me when we (Southern Ohio) came to GGA. Am I misremembering? Was I playing someone else?
@@fromundaman oh I wasn't being serious lol. My response is just playing off a joke that people say that Jiyuna and Sajam look alike. I have no idea who you played
Okay so my only thing is i feel like we're talking about the characters vs the other characters in their game and with that being the case i 100% agree However if KI maya fought mvc3 Vergil, maya has no chance Edit: saying vergil isnt the best character in mvc3 is crazy
Tbh Strider isnt even as strong as Akuma now in UMVC3, takes way less skill for pretty much equal comeback opportunity, not to mention Akuma can kill 3 characters in an XFactor lol.. so maybe the 3rd best low health anchor in Marvel??
I dunno about that Johnny Cage placement, he had some BAD issues. Characters with small crouching hitboxes made a lot of his pressure fake, pretty much all of his good buttons were highs so he got D2 chin checked more often than pretty much any other character, characters with good disjointed low pokes like Noob or Frost could lock him out and shut down his gameplay easily, he had crap throws and no way to open people up BESIDES throwing them (leading to even more chin checks), and on top of all that he has the worst set of Krushing Blows in the entire game. Johnny was pretty rough at launch, and while future patches made him better he still had enough awful match ups I'd place him in equal footing at best. (That said I suck at Johnny Cage so grain of salt and all that.)
I think Nine is in the right spot, fwiw. She's pretty easy for how much she offers, despite not being the absolute highest tier of bullshit (There's a reason JP Nine players all went to Izanami.) Having MAYBE two different combos, being generous, and some of the most fucked up pressure in game is pretty good. Downsides aren't really apparent until you start playing her at a higher level (very polarizing matchups. Any character that has better long/midrange threat than her can zone HER instead of vice versa and her approach is laughably bad.) and at mid level you just kinda cook people with rock/navy pressure and don't feel the weakness.
“When I pick a big body, you know that character is cheap” 2 weeks ago: “Goldlewis drone got nerfed so can you guys please stop complaining and learn the matchup he’s not even cheap” 🤔🤔🤔
@ZX T you're right dude. ram, zato, and chipp must be trash since they dont win as many majors as Nago, Happy or Leo. What a shitty argument to make. No wonder Sajam doesn't use kiddy gloves with you lot anymore.
@@danielwitt1793 Yea that's not what I said. Oh and all three of those characters have significantly more top 8's than Goldlewis. Again, are we pretending like Goldlewis isn't viewed as a terrible character for tournaments because of his breadth of bad matchups? Are we really just going to act like this character was *more than mid at his absolute height? "you lot" huh? I wonder why pointing all this out makes you so mad.
It's about games he's played, get some reading comprehension before you start name calling and broadcasting just how little patience and understanding you have
Smash isn't a Fighting Game just because you call it one. You can not define a thing's "isness" by simply giving it a word that does not apply because it suits your ends, or the Master is wrong. The Master is not wrong in this. If Smash is a Fighting Game then A. Genre has no meaning, and B. I'm a freakin' Chinese Jet Pilot! I have no intentions of blasting from Hong Kong anytime soon. Smash, according to it's creator and the company that makes it, is a Party Game, It's probably the BEST party game since the Sonic one on the Dreamcast (it's THAT level of good) ^^ but i am not arrogant (nor ignorant) enough to say i know a creation *better* than it's creator. You can call something you want, but it can never be any more than what it actually *is.* There is some light at the end of this situation tunnel though. The alteration of their game has driven Nintendo so *anti competitive smash* that there are ZERO plans to ever have another one and Nintendo is moving to annihilate competitive Smash. One way or another, Truth wins. Smash is NOT a fighting game. Do you need an example? How was the big world tour this season?
It doesn’t matter too much you youngins are the patch generation all you have to do is complain on Twitter or twitch and your characters get help Or talk about a character you don’t actually play and get them nerfed Sajam can rank how he wants
@@danielwitt1793 i mean, considering some otherwise unexplainable buff/nerf decisions being easily understood once you know Japan rates characters based on how good the best player with that character is, and how everyone bitches on Twitter nowadays...
@GuelermeDias I'm sorry, I dont want to come across as unnecessarily rude, but have you PLAYED fighting games? A LARGE amount of character changes are unexplainable. Thats...thats like a big running joke to anyone who plays fighters, ESPECIALLY japanese ones. You come across as sad boomer yelling at younger generation players for no other reason than because times have changed.
@@danielwitt1793 I like how you call me a FG boomer and then ask if I have played any games, you need to work on your cognitive dissonance, plus I'm not even agreeing with the dude, just stating a FACT I think Sajam himself talked about that shit recently on a video too, so it's not like I took it out of my ass Chill and L2R
@@danielwitt1793 fuck, I'll give you a free example of how you're being dumb: people joke about how Pot will never be buffed because of FAB. IT'S NOT A JOKE. This shit has impact, no dev makes decisions on a vacuum, of course opinion matters, and now online gave a lot of people voices
I feel so incredibly bad for anyone that missed out on playing MVC3 Dante.
"AWWRIIIIGHT" Into Level 3 Install
While I haven't played MVC3, I love Dante as a DMC fan.
Go play him right now, games still going
@@ripbozo4809 Trouble is that would require playing in UMvC3's trash netcode in 2022...
@@Zevox87 if you are on pc look up umvc3 parsec. If console then yeah it's bad
my brother instituted a house rule: no dante. i never got to try him when i went over.
Really hoping we get a separate upload of Sajam showing off BS in Injustice 1 from the same stream. Did not know that "pig tech" and "dumpster tech" were real things until now
Pig tech is GOAT. The dumpster tech was just nasty
God I miss IJ1, literally the game that introduced me to the Jam. We love some pig tech.
He did, hope you watched it
@@sylascole5254😮
MkX tremor was probably the most broken character I've ever played. Although I didn't play him in a broken way at all since that was one of my first fgs.
Yeah he was ham
Yeah, top 1 and it wasn't even close, even with alien existing. Which really says a lot about the top tiers of mkx, very tekken 5 levels of just bullsh*t everywhere. Incredible game.
@@orionfire1947 yea they played mk11 and Injustice 2 so safe that the games kind of sucked. They just turned into zoner fests that were extremely boring to play.
@@zato-1766 i absolutely agree and its a shame because if you make one mistake its game over because the systems actively punish you for losing in both games. Just a tragedy of its own creation
EX ground quake on knock down for ez unblockable 13%, loved it
I prefer Sajam making a tier he doesn't put anyone in than Coney creating a hyper specific tier for each character.
Both are funny
why not both? a bunch of hyper specific tiers that you don't put anything in.
more tiers SkeletonPls
to be fair to coney, he does hate to do it
I'm so curious why you felt the need to say this
Batman should be in anyone can cook. The bat drones made that character kinda braindead, even in the context of injustice. Specially before the DLC characters like Batgirl that just out-maneuver projectiles came out. I literally played Batman blindfolded for a set as a dare and nearly got a perfect. All his combos lead to knock down, you call bats, do a safe jump that landed left or right, do a overhead or low string, and you could either keep it safe or convert off the audio que of them blocking and the combo would be long enough that you could get another bat out by the end.
I mained Bane and I hated fighting against Batman, it felt so tricky
I have a similar mindset on believing in my characters. also most games, if a character is truly bad, it’s probably because they are lacking tools, and tools are fun. I like being able to do a lot of stuff or having a tool for multiple things. It feels powerful. I’m not forcing top tier, I’m just playing what I like that is also good.
Have not watched the vid yet, but you are definitely downplaying Sol. SMH my head
he was very close to downplaying Vergil O_o
@@TheCJRhodes Where? I watched the whole video and everything he said about Vergil sounds spot on
Nah he's downplaying hitman
@@OreoTheWolf he made a couple of comments at the beginning about how Vergil wasn't top 3 and it sounds like downplaying for a moment but he explains Vergil at the end better
Shaking My Head my head lol
a tier list i can kinda get behind, hell yea 🤟
edit: i think it's interesting to think how different people would interpret 🧐 these tiers
i say i have played "I Carried" characters, but because their quality of life/cohesion was trash 💔 --not because they lacked (much) raw power
I'm surprised I didn't see at least Filia in the tierlist. I think you played much more Skullgirls than Blazblue.
Getting an idea of character stength on blazblue is probably much much easier than skullgirls. I'm only guessing but skullgirls is honestly the most complicated fighting game i know of. Anything sajam might say is a pure guess is what i think happened so he didn't include anyone from there.
It can't be that. Skullgirls is complex, but Blazblue characters have much more going on individually and it's a game with way more characters.
0:05 Pick Ryoko in Karnov's Revenge and marvel at how much of the cast completely shut her down by simply mashing light punch.
Crazy Sajam only just uploaded something he streamed over a year ago, why was he talking about Strive Sin before he even came out as if he had played him?
release bardok is everyone can cook tier for sure, bardock today is doing the heavy lifting
Hitman was so good and cool it carried my enjoyment of the game itself
Knowing hitman i bet thats not the only thing he carried lol. Just kidding lol mained striker and her bs divekick mix
@@theDOVAHKIN1998 Striker was so good too. I just never played a good one that abused the guard breaks. Hitman was just soo easy and consistent
I'm the same with DK. I kinda hate the way DNF feels but i still play it sometimes just bc i love dragon knight so much
Never thought I'd see the day that Sajam would willingly make his own tier list. The dawn of a new era o7
Oh God when he mentioned the Maya damage ender and I almost cried.
I followed Sajam back when he was uploading Injustice 1 Nightwing matches. I was hooked
Man thinking back to OG fighting games and how some characters just didn't work brings me back. Some of those KOF rosters made me question if the devs just hated someone and made them into the game.
Still signing the descriptions with 2022 instead of 2023 I see 😂
Damn he’s stuck in 2022.
Well he's not *technically* wrong! xD
Some of the best content I consumed on YT, Ty sajam
This is such a good idea for content. I still remember watching all the old nightwing tech back in the day
I really like the format for this list.
i'm surprised you didn't put fillia and big band on here, i remember you playing skullgirls for a while with those characters
I think he also played Tianhuo in Them's Fightin Herds. Could be that he forgot?
Sajam is, it think, trying to approach this from a balanced perspective. It may also well be that he doesn't really have those Characters to a point where he feels his reporting would be accurate. Fair play. :)
@@mikejonesnoreally If that was the case I don't think he would have reported his time with Blazblue.
@@kevingriffith6011 Good point. i dunno, maybe he just doesn't like those games? i know the style puts some people off, as well as the lack of anything that was really new at all. i never picked them up either and i buy *most* Fighting Games so i can see why these failed to gain purchase on his mind.
@@mikejonesnoreally Could’ve also just played Blazblue off stream, and maybe he does have a bunch of off stream time with it.
sajam is a top tier enthusiast (good for him)
for real tho, I feel like there's the aspect of how comfortable the player feels with a certain character, when you get lucky and your favorite archetype has a very strong character, shit feels too easy almost
of course you might play grapplers but then you deserve to suffer so who cares
As someone who was very late to the Granblue train seeing Katalina so high is absolutely baffling to me lol.
Kat and Gran were contenders for like best character on release.
They got toned down.
She was a menace and a half
yeah katalina normals were really broken on release, also ex fireballs had hkd so it was easier to approach
@@callmetravesty8762 I wish she would get some attention again, I really like her
Release lance and ferry made me cry. Kat was just below them, gran just below her… and when the demons were finally nerfed… belial got released
Injustice 2 Batman was my best character, and I never took him to the lab once. He was a combination of fun and powerful that meant you could just pick him up, play him any way you want and cook
I have to wonder how this list would shift if was going either by all of the first versions of the character or all of the latest versions, especially since release versions still tend towards degeneracy in the modern patch era. I feel like Hit would definitely still be last either way though.
that Batman description was "imagine if Happy Chaos was Happy Chaos"
I loved the Injustice nostalgia trip. I kind of wish people still played it but I understand why they don't
I do really enjoy listening Sajam talk about injustice, was the first fighting game I took somewhat seriously!
I’m going to let my salt take host of my body for a moment and say that Nine deserves to be in the anyone can cook category. There was a time when she was ALL you would see online, at least in CF 1.0, and I thought maybe there was something difficult about her.
Sure, maybe memorizing all of her spell recipes was difficult to manage, and maybe now i’d rank her in they did the heavy lifting, but in 1.0 all of her normals recovered stupid quick so she was hard to punish, Kunzite was the god spell, it was fast, it tracked in front and behind her, it was plus a million on block, it counted as the first hit being an overhead if i remember correctly, with the second being a mid, did a huge chunk of damage, it fatal countered on counter hit, ground bounced if it caught you in the air amongst loads of other things, the spell was so good they had to drastically nerf it and buff every single one of her other ones to make them worth using. It was like Testament’s arbiter sign on steroids.
She had some of her hurtboxes enlarged too because for some reason on top of having far reaching buttons she needed to be hard to hit on top of that, and she had a teleport that recovered quickly as well to boot. Imagine some unholy fusion of Axl, Happy Chaos, and and Nago, but all condensed into the tiny body of May, and equally as hard to hit, and thats the best way I can describe how fighting her felt.
Vergil definitely belongs in "They Did the Heavy Lifting." *Smile*
I think Captain Cold from injustice 2 was busted but I wasnt anywhere near the level sonicfox was using him at (special mention for black manta I think he's great)
@ 7:51 Marvel 3 Dante or Marvel Infinite Dante? Both are Super strong, but Infinite Dante, i swear, was unnerfable. i dunno if that's even a word but it sure is a thing where Dante was involved. (i think he was nerfed in *all* of the patches. That's right, *both* of them! xD
Infinite Dante would be anyone can cook 100%
@@SupermanSajam What about Black Widow? i mean she's basically NightWing that has a command grab that can target you from the *sky.* o.o
This is another video where I get reminded that people calling a really good move "esports" is funny as fuck
One day i should just play some fucked up character for the sake of it just to know how it feels. Out of all of my characters i think baiken is the strongest and she's pretty much just fine.
I still remember Batman’s jump in cross up😂😭
Injustice 1 having Nightwing was really cool to me at first bc he's one of my favorite comic characters ever so once i learned how he was it made me sad
Hol up...let him cook
I can't believe you made this list and left Inspector Azuma off of it. I guess the Croc with a Glock is just too strong.
Yo this concept is amazing! Mind if I share this idea around with other games?
People will go on rants about how miserable a matchup is for their main and then say it's a 6-4 or 6.5-3.5
I'd say any Low HP character with good mobility and pressure vs Grappler with funny big damage is a easily the most miserable matchup in all FGs and they're usually among the most even. Both sides are in agony
Part of the balance is that FGC games are all 1v1, so you either have a varied cast with polarizing matchups, or a boring cast with close matchups. Because of that, results based tier lists are hard because results change a lot based on the bracket distribution. This is why 40-60 matchups in fighting games are super acceptable, I've even see people consider 30-70s playable. This also means tier listing hard since meta week more directly influence data. If character A beats B, amd alot of people play B, A week look broken. However if C beats A, C will do worse in the tourney, even if it beats the top player by listing to the higher number of B players.
In other games, with way more parts of the game, which as team mates, macro movements, and ability combos, 1v1 matchups are mitigate. For instance, an assassin vs adc 1v1 is like, a 90-10 matchup, but with teammates, Frontline, support, toys becomes completely untrue. The more ways you have to control your destiny, the less inherent disadvantages matter, so outside of really fucked patches, you'll find most characters in most other games are viable at top levels. DOTA especially sees insane cast diversity at the highest levels of play.
Ronin Takeda before the nerfs in MKX had a block infinite on like 3/4ths of the cast. Clearly I outplayed everyone else.
EDIT:
As someone that definitely was an IJ2 necro for a long time, I'm remembering you played bats earlier rather than later, and that character received nothing but nerfs over the game's lifespan and continued to make top 8s pretty much till MK11. I remember they tried to patch out his vortex about a half dozen times but it just...came back. That character wasn't quite baby mode in that he'd play the game for you, but he was pretty damn close. Supes was pretty honest by comparison, since most people that wanted to play that bullying, footsie orient style played BA and his f12 was just a better string for that, and his frame advantage with trait cancels was stronger. Supes had marginally better zoning in some matchups, but his real strength was his corner vortex with the restand into 4-way guess.
great video, but why no reference to your favorite rumbleverse moves? young goldlewis snubbed
my guy, you left out sonicboom brad's black adam
Ooof, I got blended by a Fulgore last time I played KI online, holy shit was that painful.
This is a really cool idea
Shoutout you for playing my boy hit
GGS was my first Guilty Gear game, and i can say for certain that 1.0 sol should be in anyone can cook lmao. I made it to the highest floor in the brief time i played the game, i still think i currently have less than 50 hrs in the game, bro definitely carried. Idk how he is now tho haven't really played since then
goldlewis, gran, and xrd sin should be bottom of heavy lifting imo
Xrd Sin is not that good, he's low high/high mid, that's definitely equal work
This is a fun idea.
1 min 17 secs into the vid and I can conclude sajam only plays top tier (factual)
S1 v.1.0 gran and kat were absolutely busted because they were really easy to play, with high damage combos out of almost every routing and they had either really plus buttons, or really fast punishes that no other character in the game had at that point. Percival was supposed to be the punisher heavy hitter of the game, but why play him when you can play Kat or Gran and skip the whole stock micromanagement. Other character that was ridiculous S1 was Gorilla Blade Lancelot.
It's a bit difficult to follow this tier list if you didn't play the games on the patch that you are ranking them by.
A fun follow up video would be ranking these same characters with current patch and comparing viability.
This video was great : )
Awesome idea for a video
I had no idea that Sajam played the same MvC3 team I did!
As someone that played both games at the same time; Urien should be higher than Android 16. Urien' headbutt alone could be spammed freely in a lot of matchups and SF5 was exponentially more restrictive and no skill expression compared to DBFZ. Urien might even be above Fulgore - because Fulgore was a strong zoner in a game where a lot of the cast had tools to deal with it or equally broken stuff.
Basically, if players are given strong tools and can more easily move as good as the player is, character balance matters less. But when you're being held back by the game engine, character balance becomes a huge factor.
trying to act like jam session assist does not do the heavy lifting
@ 8:41 Why Sajam! i had no idea that you were a Samurai Shodown V Perfect kinda' guy! xD i mean when you're the only Character in a ginormous sword fight with a bow? @ 12:09 Strider isn't about power he's all about the options and versatility. Also, triple jump *never* sucks! Seriously though? NO DarkStalkers? Not even from Savior? o.o
Why did I think S1 Sabrewulf was Warwick from League of Legends
Damn, you're younger than I thought (not commenting on your looks). Is this games that you took seriously at a competitive level, or just games that you were good at. Also I2 Batman is "Anyone Can Cook".
I think the strongest characters I've played are like.
Season 1 Android 21 T7 Jin and Eric Myers
Oh and Definitely P4U Aigis
I think it’d be neat to do a list of which characters you think are the most fun and/or a list of characters that you think are most well-suited to your preferred play style as a fighting game player.
Release 16 is def anyone can cook . Hard knock down on everything was game breaking .
Maya was nuts but so was saberwulf. Saberwulf was an absurd character s1 of ki.
Funny the only character I played from this list is Johnny Cage.
Bro, the disrespect to Agent G is heartbreaking.
I want injustice 3 so bad now, i miss batman gameplay
2:50 correct me if im wrong but didnt fulgore kinda counter her? but was still even
I made my friends mad with IJ2 batman and I'm not all that good, love that character
Thought elena was rather execution heavy
Terry Typhoon strongly disagrees with the Goldlewis placement.
Modern Fighting game players get:
1- Reliable training mode to reproduce/lab scenarios
2- Increased/simplified Lineancy to help them with executions (not to mention the MODERN Controls)
3- Good netcode to properly practice match ups with live opponents
4- Balanced rosters in which low tiers are still viable characters to use/play with in tournament settings...
All young players can and Will go play team-based games and/or more RNG involved games to justify losses and/or win easier and pay more... just as simply as that
While all of that is true, the fighting game genre is still pretty hard to get into in general as opposed to say getting into FPS games or other genres. And I think it’s simply just because of the amount of time you need to invest into them to really be good. There is so much to learn with fighting games that idk I can understand why so many people never get past that casual level of play, it’s overwhelming how much there is to learn at first especially if your coming from a place where you literally no nothing like you don’t even have the fundamentals down yet
@@jeremyroberts8822Non of that contradicts the point, stating that despite how much modern players get carried by modern design, they will still complain about the difficulty of the genre in 1 way or another... which Includes balancing of the cast ...
Is the same reason why not a lot of young people invest time on the genre and prefer EasiER games in modern times as you also mentioned
Starting playing G from Gief. My G isn't good by any stretch but life was so much easier compared to Gief. I felt like Gief had wasted 5 years of my life. He is seriously so bad, but I had gotten use to playing such a bad character and got blind to it.
I love this video idea but...
I swear you ran Injustice 1 Superman against me when we (Southern Ohio) came to GGA. Am I misremembering? Was I playing someone else?
Must have been Jiyuna
I don't think I've ever been to GGA lol
@@SupermanSajam Oh, I'm very mistaken then, my apologies. Now I'm just wondering who I played against then.
@@TheKeaver I can't recall but I'll take your word for it. All I know is they had some godlike blocking.
@@fromundaman oh I wasn't being serious lol. My response is just playing off a joke that people say that Jiyuna and Sajam look alike. I have no idea who you played
Okay so my only thing is i feel like we're talking about the characters vs the other characters in their game and with that being the case i 100% agree
However if KI maya fought mvc3 Vergil, maya has no chance
Edit: saying vergil isnt the best character in mvc3 is crazy
*KI WINS AGAIN!*
14:33 what about people who loves a character because of their design and/or lore but they sucked? then they're forced to carry them
KI is too fucking intelligent for me and I tried to play Omen
Tbh Strider isnt even as strong as Akuma now in UMVC3, takes way less skill for pretty much equal comeback opportunity, not to mention Akuma can kill 3 characters in an XFactor lol.. so maybe the 3rd best low health anchor in Marvel??
Strider has orbs
I dunno about that Johnny Cage placement, he had some BAD issues. Characters with small crouching hitboxes made a lot of his pressure fake, pretty much all of his good buttons were highs so he got D2 chin checked more often than pretty much any other character, characters with good disjointed low pokes like Noob or Frost could lock him out and shut down his gameplay easily, he had crap throws and no way to open people up BESIDES throwing them (leading to even more chin checks), and on top of all that he has the worst set of Krushing Blows in the entire game. Johnny was pretty rough at launch, and while future patches made him better he still had enough awful match ups I'd place him in equal footing at best.
(That said I suck at Johnny Cage so grain of salt and all that.)
I think Nine is in the right spot, fwiw. She's pretty easy for how much she offers, despite not being the absolute highest tier of bullshit (There's a reason JP Nine players all went to Izanami.) Having MAYBE two different combos, being generous, and some of the most fucked up pressure in game is pretty good. Downsides aren't really apparent until you start playing her at a higher level (very polarizing matchups. Any character that has better long/midrange threat than her can zone HER instead of vice versa and her approach is laughably bad.) and at mid level you just kinda cook people with rock/navy pressure and don't feel the weakness.
Where’s the KoF characters
Where's Byakuya?
Dante was way crazier in vanilla mvc3
Where the fuck is Oleander.
We all know Goldlewis is the top of this list smh
Why does Sajam pronounce "games" like an Irishman
15 seconds pog
Bungis 😢☝️
“When I pick a big body, you know that character is cheap”
2 weeks ago: “Goldlewis drone got nerfed so can you guys please stop complaining and learn the matchup he’s not even cheap”
🤔🤔🤔
In Sajam’s favor I think his placement on this tier list was perfect and some of yall do just need to learn the matchup
I never said he wasn't cheap, I've always said GL was good.
41 seconds poggers
Tom and Jerry is equal footing in season 1 or 2?..... Talk about delusional
If 1.0 Sol isn't in anyone can cook tier, I can't even imagine playing against those characters.
play more fighting games.
Play more fighting games.
Play more fighting games.
Play more fighting games.
Play more fighting games.
This guy only plays the top characters from these games and defends them
We really saying Goldlewis did the heavy lifting when he has nothing but bad matchups (excluding pot)
Sounds like a skill issue brother
@@danielwitt1793 Again, we really pretending?
At his absolute height he got one tournament win.
@ZX T you're right dude. ram, zato, and chipp must be trash since they dont win as many majors as Nago, Happy or Leo. What a shitty argument to make. No wonder Sajam doesn't use kiddy gloves with you lot anymore.
@@danielwitt1793 Yea that's not what I said. Oh and all three of those characters have significantly more top 8's than Goldlewis.
Again, are we pretending like Goldlewis isn't viewed as a terrible character for tournaments because of his breadth of bad matchups? Are we really just going to act like this character was *more than mid at his absolute height?
"you lot" huh? I wonder why pointing all this out makes you so mad.
@ZX T I'm not mad, I'm annoyed at your room temp IQ and your bad faith arguments. I'll be back when you're not pissing and shitting your pants.
Where's Smash Bros, because that game is definitely a fighting game! ._. yes no Smash Bros? I bet you smell like lavender! 🙄
"Rating all the fighting game characters I've ever mained".
Maybe he's only listing games that he's played competitively?
Local manchild found lacking basic reading comprehension skills, more news at 7
Probably just never really mained a character from Smash. Tom & Jerry is in here repping MultiVerses / Platform Fighters so don’t sweat it
It's about games he's played, get some reading comprehension before you start name calling and broadcasting just how little patience and understanding you have
Smash isn't a Fighting Game just because you call it one. You can not define a thing's "isness" by simply giving it a word that does not apply because it suits your ends, or the Master is wrong. The Master is not wrong in this. If Smash is a Fighting Game then A. Genre has no meaning, and B. I'm a freakin' Chinese Jet Pilot! I have no intentions of blasting from Hong Kong anytime soon. Smash, according to it's creator and the company that makes it, is a Party Game, It's probably the BEST party game since the Sonic one on the Dreamcast (it's THAT level of good) ^^ but i am not arrogant (nor ignorant) enough to say i know a creation *better* than it's creator. You can call something you want, but it can never be any more than what it actually *is.* There is some light at the end of this situation tunnel though. The alteration of their game has driven Nintendo so *anti competitive smash* that there are ZERO plans to ever have another one and Nintendo is moving to annihilate competitive Smash. One way or another, Truth wins. Smash is NOT a fighting game. Do you need an example? How was the big world tour this season?
It doesn’t matter too much you youngins are the patch generation all you have to do is complain on Twitter or twitch and your characters get help
Or talk about a character you don’t actually play and get them nerfed
Sajam can rank how he wants
You.... you don't actually think game devs (especially Japanese ones) take Twitter rants as feedback, do you?
@@danielwitt1793 i mean, considering some otherwise unexplainable buff/nerf decisions being easily understood once you know Japan rates characters based on how good the best player with that character is, and how everyone bitches on Twitter nowadays...
@GuelermeDias I'm sorry, I dont want to come across as unnecessarily rude, but have you PLAYED fighting games? A LARGE amount of character changes are unexplainable. Thats...thats like a big running joke to anyone who plays fighters, ESPECIALLY japanese ones. You come across as sad boomer yelling at younger generation players for no other reason than because times have changed.
@@danielwitt1793 I like how you call me a FG boomer and then ask if I have played any games, you need to work on your cognitive dissonance, plus I'm not even agreeing with the dude, just stating a FACT
I think Sajam himself talked about that shit recently on a video too, so it's not like I took it out of my ass
Chill and L2R
@@danielwitt1793 fuck, I'll give you a free example of how you're being dumb: people joke about how Pot will never be buffed because of FAB. IT'S NOT A JOKE. This shit has impact, no dev makes decisions on a vacuum, of course opinion matters, and now online gave a lot of people voices
my most loved character of all fighting games is mike haggar on umvc3 of final fight
Final fight is a beat em up not a fighting game