Is Christ Present in the Eucharist? Francis Chan, Hank Hanegraaff & KP Yohannan (Hank Unplugged)
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- We are thrilled to present a series of conversations between our dear brothers in Christ, Francis Chan and Metropolitan Yohan (aka KP Yohannan). These conversations were initiated by criticism that Francis Chan received as a result of publicly discussing the history of the church and the Eucharist and inspired by our desire to promote dialogue on divisive issues within the body of Christ in a spirit of brotherly love to honor the high priestly prayer of our Heavenly Father just before His passion on the cross “that they may all be one…so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” (John 17:21) On behalf of Francis Chan and Metropolitan Yohan, we hope that these conversations will inspire you to inspect Church history, encourage you to engage in dialogue with those that you may disagree with, and live the answer to our Lord’s High Priestly prayer that we may all be one. “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples if you love one another.” (John 13: 35)
Topics discussed include: Hank introduces the first in a series of conversations with Francis Chan and Metropolitan Yohan and the desire of these men to work towards unity in the body of Christ (0:25); Francis Chan responds to the controversy concerning comments he made regarding the history and meaning of the Eucharist (2:50); how an examination of Church history changed Hank’s view on the Eucharist (6:15); for the first 1000 years Christians were undivided at the communion table and the evolution of the different explanations of the Eucharist (15:00); Francis Chan explains his current confusion over the true meaning of the Eucharist because for his entire life he viewed the Eucharist as a mere remembrance and every other view as heresy (24:35); Metropolitan Yohan explains when he realized that he was becoming a lawyer for God, all head knowledge and little experiential life in union with Christ (26:10); Francis Chan questions whether a certain view of the Eucharist is necessary to experience authentic union with Christ and sanctification (43:30); Hank discusses why he felt as though he had become a lawyer for Christ and how that caused him to wonder whether he was even a Christian (46:10); misunderstanding deification (49:00) stay tuned for the rest of the conversation between Francis Chan, Metropolitan Yohan and Hank Hanegraaff coming soon (55:40).
"History, Mystery, and the Eucharist" is the first episode in this four-part series of round table conversations and deals with the importance of understanding the history of the church and the mystery of the Eucharist.
✅ For further study, get Hank's book "Truth Matters, Life Matters More: The Unexpected Beauty of an Authentic Christian Life" on Amazon: amzn.to/2Ycd3CX
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#hankhanegraaff #francischan #eucharist
This is the first conversation in a four part series between Francis Chan, Hank Hanegraaff and Metropolitan Yohan. Subscribe to the channel if you're interested in hearing the next episode and stay tuned! God bless
Dear CRI, thak you for this conversation. Very respectful, and really nice that the gentlemen grant each other the time to talk. Coming from a protestant background praying to the saints is one of the major differences with orthodoxy. Will this be treated in one of the coming hours? And if not, is there room to expound on that in a similar manner in the future?
So do we now base what we should believe on what 3rd century folks believed. So tradition over what the Word of God actually says? Within 5 minutes of this chat the obvious verse says... do this in remembrance of Me - Luke 22 v19, 1 Cor 11 v24 & v25... if we base authority on certain centuries and false traditions that arose then next up is Mary is sinless, Mary was a perpetual virgin, Mary was born of a virgin and Mary was assumed into heaven and did not die. If you say something is happening to the bread and the wine then define exactly what? Also the phrase - Truth matters but life matters more is very confusing to me and actually disturbing. It should be Truth matters because eternal life matters?
@@Born1976
Michael,
You must remember that Jesus founded only ONE Church.
This is what He said:
▪︎MATTHEW 16:18-19
18. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
As you read, Jesus built just one Church over Peter. Furthermore He gave it authority with Legislative, Judicial and Executive powers.
Jesus further demanded unity in His Church.
▪︎JOHN 17:21-23
21. so that they MAY ALL BE ONE, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
22. And I have given them the glory you gave me, SO THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, as WE ARE ONE,
23. I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to PERFECTION AS ONE, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
Our Lord emphasizes the consequences when we do not listen to His Church:
▪︎MATHEW 18:17
17. If he, a sinning brother, REFUSES to listen to them, TELL THE CHURCH. If HE REFUSES TO LISTEN EVEN TO THE CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
These passages imply one common theme: UNITY.
The Church is the final authority for Christians.
▪︎LUKE 10:16
16. Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects THE ONE who sent me.”
St. Paul restates the same message of ONE Church:
▪︎EPHESIANS 4:3-6
3. STRIVING to preserve the UNITY of the spirit through the bond of peace:
4. ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, as you were also called to the ONE hope of your call
5. ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM
6. ONE GOD and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
One Holy Spirit inspired Church to interpret and teach TRUTH with authority in:
▪︎1 TIMOTHY 3:15
15. if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is THE CHURCH of the living God, THE PILLAR and FOUNDATION of the TRUTH.
JESUS PROVIDES HIS ONE CHURCH WITH ETERNAL GUARANTEE IN:
▪︎MATTHEW 28:19-20
19. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20. and teaching them to obey EVERYTHING that I have commanded you. And remember,
I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, TO THE END OF THE AGE.”
No exceptions!
Until the end of times.
God bless.
Joe Castillo thanks for your reply... you are changing the subject as this video chat is claiming that Communion is more than just remembrance. Scripture is clear, Jesus commanded that we remember His sacrifice through a meal of bread and wine. (Why Jesus commands that is a great topic to discuss). Your reply is one I hear all the time from Catholic folk, since you did not specify which church in the world today is the ONE church, I will assume for the moment you are Catholic? If that is the case discussing things gets a bit tricky. For example my source of authority is the Word of God, the Bible. Your source of authority will be the Catholic Church and oral traditions (as I hear frequently). With that being the case it’s better to appeal to our individual walks with the Lord. For example when you stand before The LORD one day you will not be able to appeal to being any particular denomination. Remember Jesus has something against all seven churches in Revelation and our Lord made it clear that many will say on that day Lord Lord and appeal to being Catholic or Protestant and He will say to those individuals depart from Me for I never knew you. So Joe are you a true believer saved by Jesus and your sins washed away by Jesus? I hope so because then you and I are apart of a church that is not made with hands. The ONE true church has Jesus as the Cornerstone and the stones are made of living stones and it’s Builder is God. You and I are those living stones, and we worship God the Father in Spirit and in truth. I await your reply...
Joe Castillo Are you Catholic...if so read Revelation 17&18 specifically 17:1-8, 18:16, 18:4
Why are conversations like this between influential Christian teachers so rare? This should be the norm. Thank you so much for posting this.
Fr
Francis need to read the Dediche, the early father and history of the Church and how the worship was done in early centuries. Brant Pietrie does an excellent job on how jews and old testament has its fulfillment in new testament which I think is excellent.
@@amandabula8732 yes the dediche 100% that's what helped wake me up to. It started with the promise Jesus made that his church will never fail, & when the spirit of truth comes he shall never fail.
& the reason why these conversations dont happen more often.
In My opinion is because the devil wants us to keep hate for the Apostolic Catholic Orthodox Church, the devil doesn't want us to come to an agreement. and as men keep believing in that the Protestant movement was 100% biblical. these conversations will never happen to go viral. And God says if men keep believing in a lie, he will send them a strong delusion to keep them in their own hearts their own mind on what the Bible really teaches .because they have hardened their hearts & dont seek the truth. God let's them keep on believing it.
This hit home hard when I find this out. I'm sure u already kno this. But I'm now just coming out a Protestant background, and maybe if a Protestant comes and reads this they could wake up to, and the seed will be planted. God bless u 🙏🏼💯☦🙏🏼
@@onlylove556 However, even though the whole thing is symbolic magic, what it represents is still the body and blood of a demigod Jesus. If one eats, symbolically or otherwise, this body and blood of a man, it follows logically that ritual cannibalism is practiced. A simple syllogism will illustrate this:
P1: Jesus commanded his followers to eat his body and blood.
P2: You symbolically eat the body and blood.
C: You are practicing ritual cannibalism.
Because most Christians cant help proving they are in the right brand.
I love how each person lets the others talk at length with no interrupting. It's so refreshing to see when there are so many videos where everyone tries to talk over the other person to make their point.
Sometimes people say something incorrect and need to be corrected. Both of the speakers did at times in this, and it would be nice to have the record set straight.
What does Christ teach about divorce and remarriage among Christ’s Pastors? Are they disqualified? Also, "This is My blood". Sounds almost literal.
Francis chan and scott hahn should have a talk. It sure would be interesting.
Lyle,
I agree.
I hope someone brings him to that possibility.
Rome sweet home
why?
@@davidaimer314 I don't mean this to be polemical but Rome really started the whole protestant schisms. Both by separating itself from the other 4 patriarchs at the time (all of which are still Orthodox) and by its church abuses which led to Luther's need for reformations. Luther was right to protest against the Church of Rome but then he threw the baby out with the bathwater. Romophobia as we call it. He should have returned to the Orthodox Church and he was close at one point in time, but alas now we have every evangelical protestant church leader as a mini pope.
@@christianfauerso3633
'Every protestant
pastor is a
pope' Really?
Protestant
pastors are
vicars of
Christ ??
Francis Chan 'reading
Scripture for 1st century
believers didn't have this'
('this' meaning Scripture)
So what was Paul
refering to when
he commended
the Bereans ??
Hank Hanegraaff was my first Bible teacher. I found him on my local radio station after my conversion from paganism to evangelical charismatic non denominational Christianity. I spent 20 years buoyed by God’s Grace through 12 different protestant churches. I loved and lived my faith passionately.
Unexpectedly, the Holy Spirit gently but powerfully guided me into the Catholic Church. I can’t describe the depth of PEACE I feel now that I don’t have to rely on my own Bible interpretation, the right church, the most relevant pastor, the right praise music…
Protestantism is nothing but constant work. I love being a Catholic and I love the Catechism. I love how my 20 years in Protestantism prepared me to receive the embarrassment of riches present in Catholicism.
Hank used to encourage people to be so familiar with the truth of the Bible that they could spot a counterfeit immediately. I can finally do that, since I’m so sweetly nestled in the bosom of the Church, with 2,000 years of teaching authority to trust.
are assuming Hank converted to the roman catholic church?
Beautiful! Please pray for me!
@@againstthepope2362 Hank Hanegraaff converted to and joined the Greek Orthodox Church sometime in 2017.
Beautiful testimony. Wow! I am a Catholic who left for a time and returned to fight against the forces of darkness that has taken hold in the world. After going to other churches, they were empty of Jesus present in the tabernacle and in the sacrifice of the mass. Protestants do not understand sacrifice and suffering. Without them you cannot know Jesus in the Eucharist. Professional Christians like Ruslans and Chans and others, are selling a business model of Jesus and instead of his REAL PRESENCE IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST THAT HE LEFT US IN THE BIBLE. Catholics are Christians. Protestants are only partial Christians and they pick and choose what they believe. They are not apostlic successors. Only one church did Jesus create. It was holy, apostolic, and catholic. There was no Bible until 405 when it was first made true canon by a Pope. Studying church history is very eye opening. The Dideche is the first writings of Catechism by the Apostles BEFORE THE BIBLE WAS PUT TOGETHER. I have been studying the Gospels and church history over the last year and I am convinced the true Christian church is Catholic. I have tried Bible Studies with Protestants and they do not know history. You cannot read the Bible without knowing the old testament or jewish law. Everything in the Gospels refers back to the Old Testament. Taking Bible Studies with Catholic Scholars always refer what Jesus is referring to in the Old Testament and why he was killed. And this also goes back to Church History AND Catechism.
God bless You
As a portestant who is looking seriously into Orthodoxy and found Francis Chan a great teacher as a kid this is timed so perfectly. Glory to the Lord Christ!
I made the journey about 7 years ago. I guess I am still on the journey. There is so much depth in Orthodoxy you will never be totally satisfied. It keeps getting better.
@StAnthony Right yeah, we don't know what the gospel is. Let me guess. God created man, man sinned and offended God, God was angry and had to punish someone so he punished his own son and now his wrath is satisfied and he can love us again. Oh and don't forget God predetermined some of his creation for hell. Is that your Gospel?
@StAnthony haha, I am not upset. Some of what you say may be true, but if your definition of the gospel is as I described earlier, the problem is actually yours.
@StAnthony Thanks for your prayers I hope you were serious in offering those to a stranger. I would imagine the reason they 'don't have a clue' is because the Gospel for them is not something that is shared through bulleted articulation of dogma, but is shared through actions and works. The articulation is still important to know on there part so I'm sorry you've met people unable to meet that expectation but maybe its not for the reasons you presuppose.
@StAnthony "Merely living a certain way" has everything to do with the Gospel. How can we read the four Gospels, read James or Hebrews without realizing the implications for life and practice as a way of partnering with God's redemption of the Earth? They are all deeply concerned with ethics. Jesus in the sermon on the mount is expounding on moral principles for practical living. I would suggest to you with humility that living a certain way is what it means to have right belief and is ultimately a correct articulation of those beliefs. Now on the Eastern Orthodox believers, they articulate the Gospel every Sunday through the Nicene Creed. So there's a verbal profession of faith. But simply intellectually acquiescing to a list of teachings is not what it means to be a Christian. No one in the EO Church is arguing for a faithless pursuit of God, that's silly. But its what your faith does and how it is manifested through your love and conduct. Remember Jesus condemns the goats because they refused to clothe the poor man with whom Jesus identifies. Also James chapter two which is pretty core to the argument here. "You say you believe God is one? You do well, the demons also believe and shutter." James goes on to argue that he who does not have works or who does not allow faith to work through love, in fact, has no faith. I don't really know what you are getting at with your comment about the definition of the word Gospel. People often use the Greek definition of the word as a kind of proof for their argument in these comments sections and I don't get it. I know what the word means, you being able to spell it out and give the definition in no way boosts the credibility of your argument. Yeah it means 'good news' or announcement, what's your point? It sounds to me like you're suggesting the totality of Christian faith is not in ones pursuit of righteousness, but ones ability to articulate a common theological principle. I guess that just feels really contrary to Biblical revelation. Like if all we are is a set of ideas about how one is to be "right with God" where is the Life, the beauty? It doesn't seem like a very full world view, more like a Gnostic cult.
God bless all of you for this great talk full of love and humility. I'm so grateful to Francis for being brave enough to explore this.
“Brave” enough to explore the unbiblical teachings of Roman Catholicism? 🤦♂️
Catholic Church was founded by Christ.
@@leviatkins453 quote----Catholic Church was founded by Christ... unquote
Nope--that church IS NEVER mentioned in the Bible!!!!!
FACT-- first Catholic church built in Rome--325AD!!!
FACT: First Catholic church built in Jerusalem in 326AD!!!
So, how can Peter be the first Catholic Pope in Rome when there was NO catholic church until 325AD?????
>>>>
Reading an important book on this subject," Fifty Years In The Church Of Rome" by Charles Chiniquy. The whole book is astounding regarding the paganism in the Roman Catholic Church. But, the most shocking quote is on page 682. “… It may be added that there is more certainty of doing the will of God by obedience to our SUPERIORS than by obedience to JESUS CHRIST, should He appear in person and give His command…” Saint Ligouri, The Nun Sanctified [upper cap emphasis mine]
>>>>Ephesians 1:22-23
New International Version
22 And God placed all things under his (Jesus") feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
>>>Colossians 1:18
New International Version
18 And he (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
>>>Council of Nicea : many bishops had a meeting with Constatine and Pope Sylvestor in 325AD. There the decision was made to create a church; The Holy Catholic church!!!
No matter where Francis ends up on his faith journey (Catholic, Orthodox, etc), I think we should all try to imitate is humility.
Whait, what????? Imitate Christ, not sinful men!
@@ElenaBaumann Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 11:1 (Apostle Paul)
@@ElenaBaumann we are all sinful men but we have examples of what kind of men we should be, and how we should take on that aspect of being inherently sinful creatures and fighting it
Indeed, he does demonstrate much humility.
Elena, Catholic and Orthodox recognize secondary causes for faith, as well as the work of God’s grace in us. This work is called divinization by latins and theosis by greeks. Peter called it a participation in God’s divine nature.
So, it is ok to emulate people we see who are responding to God’s grace.
Fake humility, Jesus got killed because he stood against the established way of thinking.
Receiving the Eucharist after confession is like an invisible song or poem playing in your soul.
No other way to describe that feeling. God's grace is beyond words.
Catholic lies this three are falling for!
@@saulespino2510 Please reconsider, it isn’t just Catholics that believe this. You don’t want to miss out on this gift.
“Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, there is no life in you.”
John ch.6 vs55
"For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink".
@@saulespino2510
What an interesting way of expressing yourself! Was that your attempt at an imitation of Yoda?
Ditching the cancer of social media means I'm discovering this four days later than I should've but better late than never. 🙌
Thank you, men! What a true witness to so humbly seek unity. I was a reformed pastor, serving a church and also pursuing post graduate studies in seminary when I seriously began to deal with the early Church, since it was my focus of study. For brevity, my path lead to becoming Catholic. As part of the Western Church, I so happily love my sister Eastern Church. Pope Saint John Paul II, refers to our East and West connection as the church that must breath with two lungs, “Ut Unum Sint”, that we may be one. I have great hope that this unified life giving breath will come to fullness and endure, for Christ has built his Church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her. I pray for you, brothers Francis and Hanegraaff, because I know the difficulties you face from those that come at you that are dear friends in the Lord. May almighty God continue to bless you men in all that he has given you to do. I agree with other comments about reaching out to Scott Hahn, also a former reformed pastor and convert to Catholicism. God used his example to help form me. I pray for continued humility and peace for the sake of Christ’s Church!
welcome
For 9 months I could not receive the Eucharist because of the covid lock down. I prayed everyday that Christ to come to me so that I can receive him spiritually. I long for him, I need him and hopefully one day I can receive him in communion. What a wonderful conversation.
Why are churches shutting down for Covid?
@@knockoutfever4 afraid 1 person will die from Covid and family will sue deep pockets.
St Mark Ji wasn’t allowed to receive communion for 30yrs. He became a saint
I heard an audible voice in front of the Eucharist after a genuine confession, He said "Accept My Mercy" I know now
Wow , i am touched by your experience.
Beautiful! Thanks for sharing!
Denise, that is beautiful… thank you for sharing!
We need to witness to the God's voice and the sacraments!! Sad that I went so long thinking they were empty rituals.... Lord have mercy
Ex reformed christian currently a catechumen in the Eastern Orthodox Church. I've been noticing a huge influx of converts coming from protestantism to Orthdoxy. God bless, Hank!
What changed you way of thinking from reformed to orthodox? Thx
@@25258721 I started to study the Westminster Confession of Faith. I came to the section on Sacraments. I then wanted to read the ECFs and Patristics. I began to read St Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of John the Apostle). The Ecclesialogy of the ECFs/consensus of the Patristics was completely foreign to protestantism. St Vincent of Lerins is another good one as well regarding what is believed at all times, everywhere.
Welcome home brother.
SLVBULL thanks ☦️
Terry Dickens Also, I will say that you can’t fully study yourself into EO. Eventually you’ll have to take a step of faith and visit a parish. Divine Liturgy is amazing. I highly encourage you to visit an EO parish.
I, like Francis Chan, am embarrassed that I didn’t study the church fathers sooner than 40yo.
However, I’m thankful to have my seat at the table for the Lord’s Supper.
I'm embarrassed that I didn't listen to the Lord Jesus Christ for 27 years. Then he pulled me out of the Miry clay and saved me.
For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord.
@@garyg7549 thanks for sharing, God is merciful
Don’t be embarrassed. You just weren’t in a place to hear 👂. Now you are. And… me too.
I'm 61 and just now studying the first church Fathers.
How beautiful it is to receive the Holy Eucharist when one is in a state of grace ❤
How beautiful it is to be SAVED FROM HELL by the sacrifice given by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago.
His three last words were this.
IT IS FINISHED. Take that for what you will. I wish you well.
@@garyg7549 Amen. At communion, I am reflecting upon a FINISHED work.
@@eflint1 according to Roman Catholic church doctrine they crucify Christ again and again and again, over and over. Might want to check that out. Be careful what you engage in.
@@garyg7549 However, even though the whole thing is symbolic magic, what it represents is still the body and blood of Jesus. If one eats, symbolically or otherwise, this body and blood of a man, it follows logically that ritual cannibalism is practiced. A simple syllogism will illustrate this:
P1: Jesus commanded his followers to eat his body and blood.
P2: You symbolically eat the body and blood.
C: You are practicing ritual cannibalism.
@@garyg7549 That is not what the Catholic Church teaches. We do not crucify Christ again and again. The Church teaches that when Mass is celebrated, we are present to the sacrifice of the Cross, mystically reenacting it, perpetuating it to a new place and a new time, and being made present to the one sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The Mass is the one sacrifice of Christ made present in an unbloody manner.
I was an atheist became Christian now Orthodox first listened protestant pastors including Sir Francis Chan when i became Orthodox Christian i prayed that Francis may one day become Orthodox and here we are listening to this... God bless us all.
sil ouan I pray he becomes catholic! Lol but nonetheless excited that he’s discovering truth in the Eucharist.
Oh my word I never knew Chan had been knighted!
It's my belief if you put any label on your Christianity you're bringing man's opinion into it. And when man's opinion comes into it there's a chance for error. I am a bible-believing Christian, end of story. I'm not a Catholic Protestant charismatic Pentecostal Episcopalian Presbyterian Mormon Church of Christ, Church of God, Assembly of God, calvinist arminian or any other label. BIBLE-BELIEVING CHRISTIAN. All glory to God my savior.
Gary G the term bible believing Christian wasn’t around 1700 years ago. Or 2000. You actually got your bible from Catholics too, later modified under king James authority. Cheers.
@@tyd3407 I just made it up about a few years ago. I wasn't around 1700 years ago. I don't even care what happened last week. What am I doing for Jesus today?
I'm orthodox in my faith today because of our Metropolitan Yohan I. I thank God so much for his life and willingness to follow the truth and pass it on! I'm so happy to hear from Pr. Francis Chan and Hank Hanegraaff as well.
Is he really orthodox? I googled him and it said hes evangelical. Like an orthodox larper. Open to correction on this
@@scipioafricanus2195 sorry for the late reply to your very old comment but yes in 1 video he accepts 66 canon book yet he calls belivees church orthodox. Also in his site u can see he is being ordained by cni and csi church both anglican churches. They r mix masala I haven't met any of these people personally but they seem like half catholic, protestant and orthodox confused. And no offense to any churches. I m catholic by the way.
Sorry for replying late I have seen belivers church from outside but never entered in. U say you r orthodox and you accept only 66 books. Wheras orthodox church has more books in Bible. Also I want to know your position on Mother Mary do you have concept of hyperdulia? Do u pray to her. What exactly grp u are? Your metroplitian was not ordained by any orthodox bishops but by cni, csi and marthoma church. I m very confused about your church sir. It seems like it is mixture of catholic, evangelical, orthodox. Wikipedia also say the same thing.
I want the more knowledge from you!
Francis Chan, ask Dr. Scott Hahn as well. While you are searching that's the thing to do!
It would be so awesome for him to join the discussion.
I think Francis experiences a lot of consolations. In higher levels of spirituality God takes those away. I can't imagine the Saints being less happy than him no matter the suffering they experienced. Also he seems to think he has made it because he and his wife are very happy. God is infinite so he is missing out on infinitly more happiness then he currently experiences.
Dr Scott 'I'm a convert' hahn. Look, converts are not real Catholics - fact...
@@jonathanbohl As Protestants, that's the only indicator we know about. You can't fault him for what he doesn't know... and it seems obvious that he obviously loves our Lord deeply and wants more of Him.
Yes yes! Francis and Scott Hahn would be BRILLIANT!
That, and I think they would actually like each other quite a lot.
As a Catholic, it is so refreshing to hear people seeking the truth in Christ's Church. The deeper one delves into the beauty and history of Christ's Church, the more one is set free with clarity and understanding of Christ's mercy and love. Amen.
🙏
As with other "hot button topics" I am always refreshed when men and women of God can openly share and discuss different opinions and beliefs and walk in love and esteem toward each other. If Christian leaders did more of this type of thing, we as the church would have a more vivid and honoring testimony and witness to the unbelieving, for it is by our love one for another that they will know we are HIS disciples. Thank God for these three brothers who showed us a bright light today. And I don't even agree with them on the eucharist. But that's ok. God is love.
It's not ok. Having knowledge of the existence of the truth but rejecting it because "you don't agree" is a bitter fruit post-modernism.
Polyglotomathotheophilos Perhaps you are right. These things are a mystery...I hold them carefully while boldly proclaiming that which I do know, that God is love and we are known as His disciples by our love one for another. Here is a quote I love “From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth, From the laziness that is content with half truths, From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth, Oh God of Truth, deliver us. ~ Ancient Prayer”
@@blakewidmer "The arrogance that thinks it knows all truth." There's a big one right there that infects alot of discussions, causing more heat than light.
@@jonathandavid9720 Yes, it sure does, and unfortunately, none of us are immune from this virus of thinking we know it all...it's such a balance of wisdom and discernment, the "essentials" with which to truly fight for vs the "non-essentials" in which we show respect and liberty....but we should always come back to "does this show the world the love of Christ?"
@@polyglotomathotheophilos1941 agree 100%. I think the continued division about Grace & Works falls in this same category that you point out. Of course we are saved by God's grace. And once we know that, we are called as Christians to get to know Jesus better, follow him more closely, and tell others about him. That is an ongoing lifelong cycle of learning & growing that requires action. Work. Learning a truth and not agreeing is not accepting the action needed to take with new found knowledge. Taking that action requires work. I hope I'm making my point, agreeing with you, and attempting to expand on your point about rejection with my limited human capabilities.
Scott Hahn's Lambs Supper would be an amazing read.
This is special! Feels like I'm sitting at the table. 🙏
John 6:55, "Truly, truly..."
"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible."
- St. Thomas Aquinas
My family and I were Baptised and Chrismated on August 5th, 2020 and had our first Eucharist - our first partaking of the real presence; the body and blood of Christ - on August 6th, the Feast of the Transfiguration. We were all in tears of joy; including our children, 11, 9, and 5 and our godfather, Deacon Stephen Henne who was brought into the church in 1987 with the EOC and Father Peter Gillquist of blessed memory. The reality of it all was so powerful and wonderful.
Thank you, Hank, for every bit of your part in our journey into Orthodoxy, into the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Your podcasts and interviews and testimony was not a small part at all.
Glory to God! 🙏❤️☦️
Innocent Green I am so happy for you. I am on this journey too and want to know who the real Jesus is. I have been a Protestant for 50 years and feel I don’t really know who God is. I start catechumen next month. 🙂🙏🏻
@@Mark-yb1sp Glory to God, Mark! I will add you to my daily prayers. ❤️
Getting Baptized on September 12
@@alt-monarchist Glory to God! ❤️😊🙏
I’ve been a believer my entire life but truly surrendered my will to God as an adult . I was called to ministry as a child but many hinderances came up through oppositions .
Through a miraculous series of events I was not only prophesied over but through divine events that prophecy came about .
I assist people who are spiritually afflicted and hurt . God has given me a heart that sympathizes with others but at the same time I am relatively fearless.
In ministry and according to Gods word we know that we will confront demons just like the disciples and even Jesus who taught us .
Often I confront demons that are the root cause of many issues and it can be quite a miraculous and supernatural event to see what God does .
We hold events and meetings and go through the scripture to analyze what God wants and what God says . Every meeting we hold communion as it is necessary for many reasons . Many times we utilize the communion to weaken demons and many of them detest it openly . It scares them and it disgusts them . They themselves say it’s Christ’s Blood and are repulsed and sacred of it . We have used it literally to cast out devils .
The bible cannot lie , John 6 is not an entire chapter based on bread and multiplication for no reason . The Lord is speaking through that chapter specifically so that mankind can sense what He is saying . Too many Christians take a cherry picking attitude for using the bible to expand on their own teachings .
The Calvinists declare that the RC mass is an accursed idolatry . What the real accursed idolatry is is the manipulation to declare the communion as only a memory , in remembrance only . The word of Gods says to discern the body of Christ . To know what it is and to believe and partake of the beautiful gift of Christ 100% spiritually is true life .
Jesus has the words of life and the demons are very afraid .
The cup of devils takes on a new meaning when one considers what many churches do to Christ’s sacrament .
We are to come out of the harlot and not make bed with her , why do we tolerate an abomination done in lack of faith . Without faith one cannot please God .
This is so wonderfully thoughtful-provoking and truly grace-filled. The Eucharist was the clincher that made me long for Christ’s Real Presence as an anti-Catholic Protestant before. Praying for the fruits of this dialogue.
However, even though the whole thing is symbolic magic, what it represents is still the body and blood of Jesus. If one eats, symbolically or otherwise, this body and blood of a man, it follows logically that ritual cannibalism is practiced. A simple syllogism will illustrate this:
P1: Jesus commanded his followers to eat his body and blood.
P2: You symbolically eat the body and blood.
C: You are practicing ritual cannibalism.
@@ashwayn Your logic is incomplete. The Eucharist is a different species from the one consuming the host. Therefore, consuming the Eucharist is not the practice of eating the flesh of one’s own species.
@@ashwayn
Eating and drinking is symbolic for Believing that Sacrificed His Body and shed His blood on the Cross..
We do communion in remembrance of what Christ has Finished for us…
For as often as we do this we proclaim the Lords death until He comes..
Communion is to be our Passover Celebration (not Easter) everytime we partake. The original church did not celebrate Easter..,
@@JonOchoabut Christ is one of our species. He is a human being (as well as God). Therefore, if one believes and practices the doctrine of the Real Presence, he/she is basically engaging in ritual cannibalism.
@@aericabison23 “…(as well as God)”
There is the kicker! Cannibalism is eating the flesh of one’s sole species. Jesus is not solely human.
In Holy Communion we eat the Eucharistic species.
Hi Guys, I just want to say thank you for this conversation. As a Protestant Evangelical I believe more and more in what you are saying as I’ve been exploring the history of our church family stretching back 2000 years. Pray for the Lord Jesus Christ, Son Of God to have mercy on all of us. Irrespective of denomination I pray that we have the humility of Christ and our pride will be broken allowing our hearts to be softened to hear and accept the truth. I really enjoy your videos and Ancient Faith radio. Thank you so much, this is medicine for my soul. God bless you all and pray that we may all enter into the fullness of Christ
Happy to read your journey. Me too. After being evangelical all my life I found that studying the early church and the wonderful church fathers led me to a much deeper faith and now believe that the Orthodox or Catholic faith are right. We . I love the orthodox theology but have decided to come Catholic.
Sad state of affairs! Becoming a Catholic, I thing you mean a Roman Catholic. That church will take you to hell. It is quite evident you don't understand JUSTIFICATION by faith.
God is at work everywhere... but He is doing something incomparably special in His historical Church. This is coming from a protestant Bible college grad who hated ORthodoxy... and was Orthodox two years later.
YEYEYE Francis is coming Catholic, Alelulla, Thank you guys very powerful talk. Love it
Im so thankful when prominent protestants such as Francis start really diving into such subjects as the eucharist , regardless of what road he goes down i hope more will ask similar questions, I respect my orthodox brothers but would hope that francis could also have this conversation with a catholic apologist such as trent horn or jimmy aikin as they have great insight on the early church and its role . God bless and i wish you the best in your seeking of the truth
It's logical when you dig into church history you're going to find the history of the Roman Catholic Church. They were powerful and wealthy and steamrolled True Believers. In fact 1000 years ago if I stood on my Bible ahead of the church I would have been killed. And by the way Christ is the rock not Peter.
Gary G good day sir , to be fair a 1000 years ago most folks would not have had the education nor the money to own a bible , in most cases the only bible was located in a local church locked up and chained , the availability of bibles didnt come as a house hold thing until a few hundred years ago. Both Catholics and protestants have had dark past but thats not what is being discussed here , god bless
@@coondogbob the Roman Catholic Church locked up the Bible. The Waldenses had copies of scripture the whole time. You are correct not many as they were handwritten.
@@coondogbob may I ask you this please if I may. It sounds like you perhaps are Roman Catholic? Do you believe Mary was/is SINLESS? Do you believe Peter is the rock of the church as in reference Matthew 7:24, 25? Do you believe the Eucharist is the actual CRUCIFIED Body of Christ? Thank you very much
Gary G hi gary, im a revert to catholisim, i was away for many years as a evangelical and returned to the church a few year’s back, never been happier to be honest. And to answer your question yes i do believe in the true presence of Christ in the eucharist, and that Christ gave peter the keys and is the rock and that mary was sinsless, i also belive that Jesus Christ is my lord and saviour and without him i have nothing 😀 god bless
Hanegraaff: "Catholicism is closer to Protestantism than it is to Orthodoxy." It never fails to astound me, the mental machinations that Eastern Orthodox people will go through in order to disavow their obvious kinship with Holy Mother Church. SMH.
I can’t agree more! That said, I also like reading the early Eastern Fathers as well - like the Cappadocia fathers.
I don't know why it's so hard to just take Jesus at His Word? He said, "This is my body, this is my blood." He said, "Lest you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you." You can actually get sick or die for taking communion lightly. The word "symbolic" is never mentioned. It's not Catholic it's simply Christ! Just have childlike faith and trust that Jesus knew what He was talking about. So many of our Ways to connect with, and partake of Christ, have been marginalized. It's time to quit having a form of godliness but denying the power therein. Thanks so much for having this conversation.
"This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"
"Will you also go away? The Lord's question echoes through the ages.
The biggest difference between Catholics and Protestants is the Eucharist. What is it that the Eucharist provides?
The very thing, that Protestant cherishes the most: the Real Presence of Christ and our real union with Christ, ‘accepting the Lord Jesus as your personal Savior’ in the most real, total, complete, personal, concrete and intimate way!
I think it’s worth noting for the purposes of clarity that Reverend KP Yohannan has a training in Biblical Studies from the Criswell Bible Institute (now known as Criswell College) in Dallas, Texas, USA. An honorary Doctor of Divinity was conferred on him by Hindustan Bible Institute & College in Chennai, India. Although Reverend Yohannan is described as a doctor, the honorific is not an earned degree.
His church, known as Believers Eastern Church is an independent evangelical Bible church. Although his community refers to itself as Eastern, it is not in canonical ecclesiastical communion with any of the historical Eastern Christian communions such as the Eastern Orthodox Churches, Oriental Orthodox Churches or the Eastern Catholic Churches.
Finally, Reverend KP Yohannan was ordained as a student at Criswell Bible Institute in 1974. The school began offering undergraduate degrees in 1977. His title, Metropolitan was bestowed by his church.
Wow. He’s a normal Protestant
This was so great! Metropolitan and Francis Chan have both had tremendous impacts on my journey with the Lord. Last year I graduated from GFA’s School of Discipleship and this picks up right where we left off. I can’t wait for part two!😉😂
Really? Do you know who this man in red rob is? He was respected while he was an evangelical leader and received lots of money for evangelism. When he turned to Orthodoxy his character changed (as expected) and he was convicted for fraud in the US and for financial fraud in in India and it was big news everywhere and his actions brought shame to the name of Christ.
@@AjiDn1 I hear you! Those are real and valid things to question. Big changes like shifting to orthodoxy and dealing with large amounts of money are sure ways to raise concerns. The only encouragement I can offer is if you ever get the chance to visit the ministry, it may pleasantly surprise you :)
@@scottpeterson9450 Thank you for your invitation. Let me quote a verse from the scripture which depicts the tradition - following Orthodox churches.
"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God" (Romans 10:2-4).
By the way I am from an Orthodox background and live somewhere near K P Yohannan's home and establishments.
I’m so so sorry you have experienced that. That’s my fault as I don’t struggle well in the faith. It’s my fault that I’d so often rather live according to the passions of the flesh than submit myself to Christ. It’s my fault for being prideful or disengaged in prayer. It’s my fault for knowing I should love the poor and just pass them by.
I respect Francis Chan and I love his passion for truth. May God help you open your eyes to the true meaning of the Eucharist.
Thank you Hank Hanegraaff and Metropolitan Yohanan, may God bless you and strengthen your ministry.
Amen.
It's so hilarious regarding the Eucharist. Hanky even brings up that Christ is the door and emphasizes that Christ is the door. So following your logic, Christ is made out of wood and has a brass door knob and has hinges. Wow. We're going off the deep end folks.
Gary G When I read that at one point the Catholic Church did not let the people drink of the wine lest they spill the blood of Christ, I realised the whole ‘literal’ concept is seriously flawed. Christ died once for all for the forgiveness if sins, not every week at Mass.
@@wolves201 it's hard to believe that people could read John chapter 6 and not understand these are spiritual statements and it's even stated that way in verse 63. Christ wants us to CONSUME "HIM" TOTALLY. Christ in me, the hope of glory. Jesus in me at work, Jesus in me at the grocery store, while driving and while chatting with my neighbor. He who eats of this bread will never hunger. Is the Catholic Church saying that little bread wafer peace will sustain me all day long nutritionally? I don't think so, I'll be starving in an hour !! That's the logic if you carry it out beyond Christ being in the wafer physically.
He who drinks of this water will never thirst. "He who believes on me shall never thirst." It's funny I think the Old Testament forbids the consumption of blood orally. Also, wouldn't that be considered a Satanic ritual if I consume human blood? There's so many problems with the Eucharist it's not even fair to go through it all.
No one said he dies at every Mass. Jesus is the truth and we should strive to find the truth regardless of the group we find ourselves in. I was an atheist a few months ago, transubstantiation and Jesus saying he wants us to consume him in the Bible to have eternal life, was clear to me. People during his time left him for saying those things and a few remained. To this day there are Eucharistic miracles happening all over the world.
@@Elven. if you look at John 6:63 he says These Are Spiritual statements. When Christ died on the cross he said three words. IT IS FINISHED. It's done. Trust in what he did for you 2000 yrs ago and that's paid for your sin on the cross. Now we commemorate that event in communion. But there's no magical powers by any heretic in a robe up front. Christ wants us to consume all of HIM. He's alive today he wants to live IN US and run his love and will THROUGH US. Forget the cookie. The cookie is 3 minutes in church. Christ wants us to be enveloped in him and he in us 24/7. That is huge and it's such a shame the Roman Catholic church has perverted it.
That's why they don't want you reading the Bible the same as the other Cults mandate. Jehovah's Witnesses say you can't understand the Bible on your own, you need us. The Catholics do the same thing. It must grieve the heart of Our Lord that powerful men in charge of these Cults are blinding the precious masses of people. It Grieves my heart actually to a point of sadness beyond measure.
Bravo! Two men who left the evangelical faith and one man who's trying to get the best of both worlds. Keep it up!
Dearest brothers in Christ. I viewed your intimate round-table discussion with great interest and, well, sadness as well. Sadness for the divided body. It is truly grievous.
Personally, when I am confused about scripture, I try to understand not only the specific culture being address, at that time, but that existed contemporarily in that region. Then, I read Clement of Rome, Papias, Polycarp, and Ignatius, the only ante-Nicene disciples of the apostles. I also am mindful of how easily corrupted we are thus the reason to anchor our belief in scripture.
Hank said that we are always saved within a community of faith. This would be my first disagreement. The thief on the cross was not a member of a community of faith.
Mentioned was Hank seeking the model of the original church due to abhorrent, often blasphemous current/new divisions within the Christian community. I cannot agree more which attracts me to his argument. But, uniformity for the sake of uniformity is not desirable if we uniformly believe a lie or a significant misrepresentation.
Finally, the Eastern Orthodox church was hardly an early church derivation from the first church which met in homes. In fact, it was born out of disagreement with Rome. From my understanding of the Eastern Orthodox faith, it began around 1054. Let that sink in. It started with, some would say, in the Church of Holy Wisdom at Constantinople. Cardinal Humbert attended a service and handed Pope Leo IX a Bull (official papal document) of Excommunication.
I had been part of the “established church” for many years and sacrificed a great deal (with joy) for it. For reasons I will not mention, while noting I never was a “church hopper,” I left the church I had invested so much in and, after two years in sad isolation, joined a house church. Like Hank, this resonated with me for we became family; helping each other financially and with the use of our roofing and painting skills. We shared a meal, the Eucharist, prayer, singing, scripture reading and , in harmony, corrected significant (not majoring on the minors) theological error. Beginning at 6 pm, we would meet until 11 or 12 midnight. It was heaven on earth. Should I then go with my visceral feeling in lieu of what Hang says and does? See where this leads?
History has demonstrated how lies often emanate from twisting truth or dressing up lies using substitute words and euphemisms, such as “fetus” for baby or “revenue enhancement” for an increase in taxes to make them palatable. Parenthetically, a reading of the “Gulag Archipelago” and the history of the rise of Nazism will cement my point. The Greek Orthodox call idols, “icons.” An idol by any other name is still an idol. How can we believe that having to kiss the icons found in the iconostasis (the wall of paintings that separates the sanctuary from the nave), before going into worship is not directly against scripture? If I am not mistaken, it is quite impossible to understand Orthodox worship apart from the icons.
Exo 20:4-5 Do not make an idol for yourself, whether in the shape of anything in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. (5) You must not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the fathers' sin, to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
1Jn 5:21 Little children, guard yourselves from idols.
If I am not wrong, the Eastern Orthodox believe when a person sins they do not violate the divinely established legal relationship between God and man; he reduced the divine likeness - he inflicts a wound in the original image of God. I believe there is scriptural support for our sin (sexual sin being explicitly against Christ who lives in us) affecting Christ directly as WE are His temple. But, it surely is also our sin that legally separates us, via judgment, from a relationship with God which is only mendable through our faith that Christ has paid the price for us.
Finally, my interests were peaked when Hank mentioned going back to the early church fathers for the principle basis for understanding scripture and he conjoined his moving and undeniable visceral feeling regarding partaking of the Eucharist as further evidence that his position was correct. He also mentioned that the way he now understands the Eucharist has been so understood up until the 1600’s. I disagree with what Hank described as a ubiquitous understanding of that by the early church fathers. I commend the reading through their commentaries on that topic.
But, let me fully agree with Hank, et. al. that the Eucharist's value and benefit have been reduced to a cultural occurrence; a footnote in a bulletin.
While divisions or disagreements will exist as long as at least two people are simultaneously alive on this earth, Jesus tells us how to handle it…. With Love. By this they will know you are my disciples if you love one another. So, it is my position that the model of the Easter Orthodox is not prescribed, even hinted at, by Jesus. Rather, it was the use of the first of the fruit of the Spirit, Love, that was to conquer all things; to keep us on track in our worship, heal divisions, and enable us to imitate, as best we can, our holy Father.
So, should we not focus on encouraging and demonstrating love and reigniting the Holy Spirit, especially in the Western World, to diminish/blunt dissension and divisions?
Gentlemen, I thank you for the intimate discussion. You showed great respect for each other.
Sincerely, a simple believer
I think you said it better than most. God is alive, not dead in tradition.
“... take, eat: this is my body. And taking the cup and giving thanks, he gave it to them and said: Drink from it, all of you, for this is My Blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins ”- Matt. 26: 26-28
Communion is such a great Sacrament, in which believers, under the guise of bread and wine, partake of the true Body and true Blood of Christ for the closest union with Him, for the forgiveness of sins and receiving eternal life.
Long before His sufferings, Christ prepared His people and His disciples to understand the saving power and significance of the Great Mystery of Holy Communion, when He miraculously nourished about 5 thousand people with five loaves of bread and two fish, offered them the doctrine of the need for the eternal life of the Most Pure Body and the Most Pure Blood. ( John 6: 47-58).
Christ taught His 12 disciples even more clearly about Holy Communion at the Last Supper. (1 Cor. 14: 26-30; 10:16; Matt. 26: 26-28; John 6: 53-54).
He did this before He died on the cross. There is a spiritual element to all of this. His food is to do the will of the Father.
Of course he is, Jesus doesnt lie. He founded the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church and we are still here
Francis, this chat has come at a time in my life that I needed to hear it. I've been so focused on being a lawyer for Christ that I need to embrace the mystery.
I feel like people forget the Jewish origins of the ceremonies
Catholics haven’t. That IS what the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is all about, the completion of the Jewish Passover.
@@TotusTuus8 Not so much. Passover is a continuous tradition. It's optional though in this era because if Jesus. There's no different ceremony
@@TotusTuus8 Mostly optional*
The communion is whats important, it's all symbolic, yet retains its power because of the symbolism. Doesn't make it a literal form of blood and flesh, the ceremony and how its performed is whats important, its the meaning of the ceremony that preserved that way.
Unfortunately catholics as well as a lot of Christians still ignore the Jewish form of the ceremony and perform it differently
@@a1990sGamer "you should watch the Jewish root of the Eucharist" made by Brant pitre
@@lonelyberg1316 I already know how it works. Thats why jews do the communion every Sabbath day, thats the actual communion, not the catholic version
Because of the Metropolitan, I came to know the true Faith which was handed down to us by our Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you.
Receiving the Eucharist is the greatest prayer we can give THE LORD
“If Jesus could have given us a better gift than the Eucharist, he would have.”
St John Vianney
Catholics have believed this since Christ. Jesus said I will be with you until the end of times. I trust he said what he meant. There has only been one Church since the beginning. That is why I became Catholic after years of searching
'Do this in rememberance of me' is an attitude we are to have. It is about our attitude and not about the bread and the wine 'magically' turning into the body and blood of Christ. The word 'magically' is very suited to the Catholic church and her magic with which she enchants.
This is exciting as Francis Chan been finding out way of christian living in first 1000 years
Hi, can you clarify your statement? I'm interested in what you mean.
@@benjamind547 thanks
Correction, 2000 years. Catholic Church has know this since 33AD.
@Benjamin D nah, Catholics sorry. You broke away from the Vicar of Christ.
@Benjamin D I’m not sure what the debate is? There was clearly a leader amongst the apostles and upon that leader a church was established. Clearly it was Peter the Vicar of Christ.
I have started my journey to Orthodox Christianity because of Hank Hannegraft. It is an amazing journey! I will become a catechumen in September.🙂
Lord have mercy!
@@garyg7549 😄 chance would be a fine thing
I used to be a YWAM missionary in China working as an English Teacher. I still teach English today for a local college. I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy some 9 years ago and was ordained as a reader in the Greek Orthodox Church in the UK. Then God revealed that I was completely wrong and brought me back to the simple gospel. The book fills in the details of that journey. It tells of how God put my family back together and united in Christ. I put it as a free ebook as freely I received and freely we give. It is all for the glory of God. So I hope it may be an encouragement and a blessing to many. You are welcome to share it if you like. 🙂
@@simonpearson5295 I would love to read your free ebook. It sounds like yours would be a very interesting story. Thank you.
When you hear prayers to Mary like, “Most Holy Theotokos, save us, our only hope!” just shut off your brain and keep going into the labyrinth.
This should be good. Hank your ministry helped me find God again in my life. Years later your conversion got me to dig deeper into my faith. Your love for the Eucharist was very appealing and although i did not become orthodox i did become catholic. I just want to say thank you for all you do.
What were you before and why did you turn to catholicism?
@@dylanwagoner9768
He was a Protestant before. I think he converted to Papism because it's a more "popular" church in terms of the number of members.
@@dylanwagoner9768 i was protestant. In particular I was raised Pentecostal and when I reconverted in my early twenties I became reformed and now Im Roman Catholic. I became catholic for many reasons but to make it simpe it was the Eucharist and church history. Everything these men are saying about the Eucharist is true and can say from my own experience I have witnessed a dramatic change in my life and im much closer to our Lord.
@@icxcnika2037 👍
@@icxcnika2037 check out Peter the Rock and the Keys by Steve Ray
On the contrary, orthodoxy is more linked to catholicism, we don't believe in sola scriptura, we are apostolic churches, we believe in the authority in the church ( despite the fact that orthodox don't believe in the papacy ), we believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, communion of saints, dulia and hyperdulia and I can go on and on
I have high respect for Francis , It’s refreshing to hear this conversation, I find myself in a similar place he is in now. God bless your humility and quest for the truth Francis.
True, he's a lover and seeker of the truth..ahead of his own ministry, book sales, etc etc
“Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.””
1 Corinthians 15:33 HCSB
What do you mean?
“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.”
1 Corinthians 2:14-15 ESV
It would be great to have a Roman Catholic representative at the table. I nominate Dr. Scott Hahn. Blessings.
Roman catholicism has no place at this table
Fonque Abbey why not ? Every other church but excluding the Roman Catholics ?
Fonque Abbey so you guys are going to discuss Roman Catholic doctrine and act like you are the first to discuss it and not allow Roman Catholicism to talk about it.
@@Iron_Sharpens_Iron Typical plain vanilla Christian. Seems like it will be like this to the end of time.
Deeply Blessed, Thank You all for coming together and sharing the Eucharist.
“To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.” -- John Henry Newman
I started listening to Hank on the radio in 1995 as a new Christian at age 21. I called him and asked about John macArthur book Charismatic Chaos! Now we need a book on reform Chaos!
@patiencewilson7104 Suggestion appreciated. See also our article: www.equip.org/articles/reformed-theology-resurgence/
Such a beautiful talk. I respect the integrity of Chan in humbling himself to becoming a student and taking another look at the precious gifts that have been handed down to us through the Church. I pray that he will become Orthodox in the very near future.
Hans buubby, I had to say that for Bruce Willis. Your right tho, gotta appreciate the sit down discussion & done so well. H.H always captivates me w/ his answers in eloquent deep detail. Our Faith History via Church & The Bible, The Inspired Word of God is so incredible
Hans did you know that 500 years ago if I stood for my Bible and faith in God alone I would have been killed by the Roman Catholic Church? Did you know that?
Hans. The church can do absolutely nothing for you. It's Jesus Christ who can save you. Please consider that thought if you will. Thank you.
Gary G Did you know that 1900 years ago (ya know less than 100 yrs after Christ) Ignatius bishop of Antioch who was also a disciple of John said that where the Bishop is there Christ and the Catholic Church is also? Did you also know 500 years ago you would have been holding a bible canonized by Catholics?
@@tyd3407 I want nothing to do with that Catholic Bible. Did you know the real Bible, the word of God with no mistakes has been in the hands of Christians since day one?
Hank us awesome. Love his show and guests. All 3 guests have the same Holy Spirit. We are all growing and learning. I want full revelation. That means taking the EUCHARIST.
Let’s go all the way now fellas. Join the Holy Catholic Church!
Mark 7:13
“Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.”
Dear Francis I hope u look into the Catholic Church the Eucharist is the real presence of Jesus !!!!!!! If you only know what it is like to be fed by Our Lord Jesus !!!!!!! There is nothing like it !!!!!!!! It’s literally out of this world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a profound, sound, and blessed discussion. God bless you all.
Blessed discussion? Do you know who this man in red rob is? He was respected while he was an evangelical leader and received lots of money for evangelism. When he turned to Orthodoxy his character changed (as expected) and he was convicted for fraud in the US and for financial fraud in in India and it was big news everywhere and his actions brought shame to the name of Christ. Blessed discussion by tainted men? Funny!
Now I have a great deal to chew on as my day goes on. Thank you for such a Holy Spirit driven discussion full of grace and mutual understanding. Super refreshing.
I left protestant church for catholic church and this communion changed my life indeed.
God bless you brother Hank! I will never forget that day in June 1990 when I "happened" to turn on the radio and hear you for the first time. It was a day that changed the course of my life. You are a true heroe of the Christian faith.
I would strongly disagree with the comment here that "the Christian faith transcends all rational philosophic explanation." If that were the case then the works of the great Christian thinkers like Augustine, Anselm, Scotus, Aquinas, etc. would be for naught - which they obviously are not.
Rather, a "mystery" is something that is not fully explainable - but that does not mean it cannot be philosophically elucidated. Case in point, the Holy Eucharist. Just as in Exodus, in which one must eat the slaughtered lamb in order to live, one must consume the slaughtered Lamb of God in order to have eternal life.
I've been on this journey too. I cannot really see how you don't then end up at anywhere other than Orthadoxy or Catholicism.
I have chosen to enter the Western rite Church (Catholic) however my prayer is that Christians of all traditions are not just prepared to ask difficult questions around doctrine, belief and relevancy, but also to then take the ideological and rational implications and live them out, through the senses into every day reality. Any believer who does this will be showing a living faith.
That's what's ultimately needed. Ideas are all well and good but worship is to be experienced and lived and I believe that this is ultimately fulfilled through the mystery and mastery of Christ's very presence in the Eucharist.
@Word On Watches
May you receive many blessings to become an instrument of God's faith.
God bless.
You have just joined the Antichrist’s Church it is soul destroying...watch your children
God bless Western Rite brothers, welcome home
@@christiandocs1012
Christian,
If the Catholic Church, according to you, is the "antichrist" then get rid of her legacy in your life, start by throwing away your own Bible since it was produced by your much hated Catholic Church.
If you don't believe me, ask me. I'll tell you.
Becoming Catholic was one of the worst things I have done...
I just want to say something as someone who came from the occult; if you are relying on any power to be embedded into an object, such as wine and bread, you are in fact performing witchcraft. So either Jesus was a teacher of dark ‘magic’, or He was using parables and symbolism that would last forever and all people of all time could understand. Jesus is KING! 👑
WOW. As a former Roman Catholic who came to faith in Christ over 40 years ago - I’m ASTONISHED at how these professing Christian’s are deceived and deceiving others on the Table of the Lord.
Folks, Church History is NOT God Breathed.
Only Gods word is God Breathed and infallible.
These men are putting their trust in the early church fathers vs Gods word ALONE.
He's not only present in the eucharist, He's present within YOU! Christ Himself said that the Kingdom of Heaven is "WITHIN YOU" (Luke 17:21). It's up to the individual as to whether or not they want a relationship with Him, but He's right there in your tabernacle (body)...
I left the Catholic Church when I became an adult. I never had a problem with the Eucharist. My problem was how they treat it. If you walk into a Catholic church on a Tuesday they will tell you Jesus is in the tabernacle. But in deuteronomy and Isaiah God said “what building can contain me?” So I don’t like the idea that the bread itself is Jesus because then the bread would by definition require worship.
But even that wasn’t why I left the Catholic Church. It was the praying to Mary, praying to saints, the pope being the vigor of Christ, and calling a earthly man Father.
It stinks that a lot of churches don’t really do communion though because I did like communion. My church does it once and a while but it’s not a ceremony or blessing of the bread and wine.
I might just start doing communion on my own at home. The priest has no more power than I have. It is all the Holy Spirit.
Praying for all involved ☦️ Glory to Jesus Christ; Glory to Him forever!
Frances needs to talk to, or at least read, Scott Hahn’s and Brant Pitre’s books. 🙏🏼
I’m sure he has read Scott Hahn
On the first day Jesus returned he took the disciples to the upper room, it wasn’t until he broke the bread and blessed it that they recognised him.
They recognised Him because He broke bread with them so many times.
The real presence. Alleluia. Hank, the look in your face says it all.
3 men in love with a man named Jesus, how beautiful.
i like the video but I would like to say that Eastern Orthodoxy is closer to Catholicism than Protestantism is to Catholicism.
EO is significantly closer, and people are foolish to pretend otherwise.
The Ancient Churches: Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, Melkites, Marionites, Jacobites, etc. The Eucharist is Christ. Modern Times: I don't believe that.
Yes, Hanegraf is wrong. Greek Orthodox is pretty much the same thing as Catholicism and a whole lot closer than Catholicism and Protestinism.
As someone who was raised Catholic and converted to Orthodoxy, I would say Catholicism and Protestantism are much more related in the Western view of looking at theology. At the surface Orthodoxy may look similar to Catholicism but, once you digger you will find they are very different in many ways.
@@jasonthesken1061 could you tell me more? How are Catholicism more related Protestantism rather than Orthodoxy?
Dear Francis Chan, I have appreciated and gleaned from your ministry in the past, and I am thankful for it.
My #1 concern about the road you are contemplating going down is that it is a slipperly slope, and will lead to many, many people who are influenced by you to doubt the authority and possibly even the veracity of the Scriptures.
To believe that the Bible was 'codified' is different than suggesting that the church created the Bible. Which it did not, of course.
The Bible is inspired by God Himself. I know you believe that. Jesus promised Divine inspiration to His disciples with regard to their recollection of His earthly life (the gospels), with regard to the meaning of His earthly and post resurrection life and ministry (the epistles), and with regard to future events after He ascended into heaven (prophecy). The sum of it all is that the N.T. Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit working through human authors who were either apostles or associates of the apostles.
The church is founded upon the foundation of these apostles along with prophets, with Jesus Christ as the Chief Cornerstone.
The apostolic fathers are not our foundation. The tradition of the church is not our foundation. To make the fathers or the traditions our foundation is to make these things equal to the New Testament. That's the slippery slope. Eisegesis is the result, rather than just letting the Bible say what it says, and mean what it means.
You will be overthrowing the faith of many. Don't go down that road.
Instead, interpret church history and the so-called apostolic fathers by the New Testament, not the other way around. That's solid ground. The other is sinking sand.
I am praying for you. I grew up Roman Catholic, so I know that road well. They make the same mistake, commit the same sin. Their view of Scripture has suffered and been diminished greatly. That's the same as in Orthodoxy.
Praise God.....that we are going back to roots of believing the real meaning of the Eucharist.
Very profound and foundational discussion for any believer. A blessing to hear.
“And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.” - Justin Martyr 150's AD (First Apology, 66)
He might be one who did not have scriptures readily available which was the case for many. I put more weight on the scriptures than fallible beings on this subject.
@@urawesome4670 nice conjecture. Not the case, and scripture is explicit on this too anyway. Protestant take the literal words of Jesus and twist them into metaphor.
These explicit verses are backed up by all the early fathers who also held that the Eucharist is Christs body and blood. It wasn't just Justin Martyr but the entire church. Cant explain that away.
"For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven-not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.
Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?
...
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more."
John 6:55-60 & 66
@@urawesome4670 Saint Ignatius knew the Apostle John and heard him preach. Here he is speaking to the Philadelphians by letter,
"Be careful to observe [only] one Eucharist; for there is only one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and one cup of union with his Blood, one altar of sacrifice, as [there is] one bishop with the presbyters and my fellow-servants the deacons."
Letter the the Philadelphians 4:1
And to Smyrna,
"They [i.e. the Gnostics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that THE EUCHARIST IS THE FLESH OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again." Letter to Smyrnians 7:1
“For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and by craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains.
Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding irreverent, empty speech and contradictions from the “knowledge” that falsely bears that name.
By professing it, some people have deviated from the faith. Grace be with all of you.”
1 Timothy 6:10, 20-21 HCSB
Truth.
Mr. Hanegraaf, when you mention that many of Christ’s followers left off following Him at the point that he says of the cup that it is His blood and of the bread that it is His body, you are conflating two different events in the Gospels that are separate in timing, context, and audience. In John 6:53ff Jesus speaks of the need to eat His flesh and drink His blood for life. He is not in the upper room instituting what we call the Lord’s Supper, but is teaching about eternal life coming through Him. He is at the synagogue in Capernaum teaching. After this is when many disciples left Him because it was a “hard saying”. What you are referencing here at around the 10:00 minute mark is when Jesus is having His last meal with His disciples, besides Judas, no one left Jesus after this, especially because of His statement about His body and His blood, until He was arrested by the temple guard. This is no comment on the veracity of “transubstantiation” in the “Eucharist”, but that your illustration is flawed due to the conflation of these two events.
EDIT: Just continued to listen to this and you do address the different events, however your statement about John writing “thematically” (which he does) does not negate the following time and location stamp about the disciples leaving Christ when He taught these things when He was at the synagogue in Capernaum. NOT in the Upper Room before His betrayal by Judas...
I guess I missed Hank saying that. And I do read it as two different events. But if you read both through the lens that Jesus was making a new Covenant - replacing the Paschal Lamb with his body and blood and that every time we partake the Eucharist we get to participate in that renewed Covenant then Wow!
And it makes it easy for us to believe Jesus’ words verbatim. Unless you eat my body and drink my blood you will not have life...
He left this new covenant for us and told us to do it in remberance! Every time I consume the Eucharist I feel a wonderful bond with my God and my Lord!
Good strength! Looking forward to this program.
Have Mr. Chan research "Eucharistic miracles" of the church, this should help him understand the "True presence" of the LORD JESUS CHRIST after the consecration by the Priest.
I have been praying for Truth and this is intriguing. I started a study on the Apostolic Fathers and we'll see where it goes.
The Eucharistic Miracles are many. Start with the first one Lanciano, Italy INCORRUPT Body Blood of Jesus in the Gold Monstrance. Jesus caused not just the Bastillian monk to believe but you and I and anyone who learns of Jesus many Eucharistic Miracles.
Francis, gonna echo this, talk to Scott Hahn at Franciscan U!
Just here waiting for him to join the one true church, the one holy catholic and apostolic church.
Good conversation. But i have a question. According to my understanding I thought only Catholics and orthodox truly have the Eucharist through Apostolic succession. If K.P. is neither then does he truly receive the body and blood of Our Lord? Just a question.
From our perspective, only the Orthodox have sacraments, there are no sacraments outside of the Church.
@@paisios2541 well as catholics we recognize the legitimacy of the Orthodox sacraments. I think we are both the church just we are separated. Protestants are christians so long as they are baptized under the right form. However their "churches" are not really churches but rather christian communities that lack the Blessed Sacrament and Holy Orders.
@@paisios2541 but either way to my question about K.P. if he really believes in the Eucharist why isnt he orthodox or catholic?
@@alfreds.2335 We have a different belief about what the Church is, we don't believe that the Church can be divided since it is the Body of Christ and Christ Himself is not divided. While there are certainly virtuous people amongst Roman Catholics and Protestants, we believe they are virtuous in spite of being outside of the Church rather than because of being in some partial or imperfect way a part of the Church. I would say this is actually more to their credit. We don't believe you can be united to Christ in some imperfect or incomplete way, you either are or you aren't. Apostolic succession has not only the component of physical succession of Bishops but also entails confession of the Apostolic faith. From our perspective, if you don't have Apostolic faith then you don't have Apostolic succession. The West no longer adheres to the faith that they had in the first millennium, and so we believe that they are entirely outside of the Church, and have no Baptism, Eucharist etc. We would disagree with the Thomistic position that Baptism is imparted purely by virtue of the outward sign, we believe that Baptism can only occur within the context of the Church and for us this means the Orthodox Church. We believe the Church is the continuation of the Incarnation, the Church is Christ and so anything that we say about the Church we are also saying about Christ. If we say the Church can be divided, then we are saying that Christ can be divided and to us this is a blasphemous statement. Christ after all is the Truth and so it is not possible for any group to be united to Him when their confession of faith denies the Apostolic faith because this faith is nothing less than the truth about Christ Himself. God of course still loves and works in the lives of every person in the world, but there is a distinction between this and being a part of the Church, the divine-human Body of Christ. There is a distinction between God in His Providence aiding a person in their life, and the salvific grace that is granted through the Mysteries (sacraments) of the Church. We don't believe that the boundaries of the Church are unclear, or not connected to any visible and physical reality because we are talking about Christ's Body. When He walked the earth as a man, He was in a particular place and a particular time and it was clear what this was, and we believe the same is true of the Church as the continuation of the Incarnation.
@@alfreds.2335 To your question about KP I think his conclusion is logical given what is stated in Vatican 2, there's no reason that he couldn't have a Eucharist since after Vatican 2 the Church is merely any confessing Christian with some kind of a baptism. There's no reason that this would be confined to only Rome and the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox position is simply that there are no sacraments at all outside of the Church, and the Church is the Orthodox Church.
He is correct, he will answer for what he's said about the Bible.
"the symbol becomes reality when you believe" - KP
👍
Waooo... this was a great video for all people , us catholics and our protestant brothers may God keep sending blessing to all🙏🙏
this, right here, is EXACTLY why i became Catholic. you can't just keep ignoring the first 300 years
And that time frame is the reason we even have the Bible...
Or Orthodox
❤
@@Dilley_G45 As a Catholic who believes and professes the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, as the Orthodox do, we (Catholics) recognize the Orthodox Churches have valid Apostolic succession, that is Christ passed on the teaching and preaching authority to the Apostles who by the laying on of hands to the first generation of Bishops after them passed on that Apostolic authority to those same Bishops. Thus, the Orthodox from the Catholic Theological perspective have valid Holy Orders (priesthood) and thus valid 7 Sacraments, which of course includes the Eucharist being the Body and Blood of Christ. So in addition to the Eastern Orthodox, those Eastern Churches that are rooted in Greece (e.g., Corinth, Philippi) that are now in SE Europe (Balkans) and Eastern Europe, those other Eastern Churches, the Oriental Orthodox (Coptics, Ethiopian, Armenian) and the Ancient Assyrian Church of the East also have valid Apostolic succession and thus a valid Eucharist. I will note that Rome and the Oriental Orthodox have resolved the Christological disputes that arose at Chalcedon 451 AD and the Assyrian Church of the East at Ephesus in 431 AD.
So all 4 ancient Churches that were in communion with each other until 431AD and 2 of them broke communion (Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian Church of the East) in the 5th century with Rome and Constantinople still to this day have the same belief in the Eucharist.
Amen 🙏🏻 First 1054 years it was one one Holy Universal and Orthodox Apostolic Church. Universal (Catholic) in unity and Orthodox in teaching. In schism yet still hold the same teaching about Eucharist.
So an interesting point that I noticed in this conversation is that the reference to the symbolic nature of the elements is painted as "just" a symbol. For me the symbolic nature isn't a trifle, it is a sacred symbol, a powerful symbol, a symbol with infinite meaning. In Joshua 4, God instructed Joshua to set up stones as a symbol or reminder to future generations, was it "just" a pile of rocks? No it had sacred symbolic meaning. So to refer to communion as less sacred if we don't impart transubstanciation is a disservice to the meaning of the symbol.
The mass itself is mysterious. It is a reenactment of Calvary where the priest acts in " persona Christi" and Christ becomes present and offers Himself up as an immolation to the Father. When this happens the Holy Spirit becomes present and comes into those participating. It is wild to think that people can participate in divinity in a real way at mass. The mass brings the past to the present, it also brings the church triumphant, ( those who are in Heaven) together with the suffering church of the present. It is absolutely mind-blowing. It is sad most Catholics have no clue of what the mass is.
This is fascinating. Brothers H-Squared, Francis, and KP in thought-provoking, meaningful, and charitable conversation on the Eucharist, its meanings in history, and experiences. Good stuff.
This is a very important conversation. Thanks!
Francis Chan, every thing you experience from God is true..But there's more ❤️
Yes protestant definitely true but lacking.
Theosis. A process that never ends for those being saved by grace. 🙏🏼🕊🙌🏻
Lord, have mercy on us!
A Protestant perspective: The sacraments are inseparably attached to the Word. The sacraments seal the promises found in the Word. In regard to the Lord’s Supper, more specifically, it is given to seal the promise that those who partake of the bread and wine in faith truly partake of the body and blood of Christ. This is within the context of the believer’s mystical union with Christ. Just as baptism is connected with the believer’s initiation into union with Christ, the Lord’s Supper strengthens the believer’s ongoing union with Christ. The signs and the things signified must be distinguished without being separated. We must reject the idea that the sacramental signs are merely symbols. But we must also rejects the idea that the signs are transformed into the things they signify. When Christ uses the words, “This is my body,” the name of the thing signified (“body”) is applied to the sign (the bread).