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3 Most Outdated Bike Components We Still Use On Modern Bicycles!
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
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amzn.to/30xCvVd Freewheel
amzn.to/3jDnGb5 Bike cassette
amzn.to/2HVwgnv Bike crank square
amzn.to/2GD2Fij Bottom bracket
Almost all track cyclists use square taper, including 2000W output sprinters. They are the nuts - durable, and low drag.
Best by far, especially a nice SHIMANO or TANGE
Yes and they look 100% better , no way am I removing a BB7500 Dura ace bottom bracket and Dura ace 7700 crank to fit a modern piece of rubbish new modern crank , they look awful with a huge hole in the middle ? OK for a mountain bike but not a HINDE prototype TT bike ! Square taper or Octalink only ! Pure class lol and they never play up and zero problems on mine in 20 years .....
@@ianmangham4570 unfortunately Shimano doesn't pay much attention to square taper anymore, up until not long ago they used their special sealed cartridge bottom bracket design, like the BB-UN26 on the video. Bearing wise, they were more like the traditional cups & axle design, except integrated in a sealed cartridge.
Nowadays they've moved away from this great design, and if you look at their current offerings such as BB-UN101 or UN300, it's just two cartridge bearings and a tube, like any other bottom bracket cartridge out there. In fact the bearings shimano uses appear to be much narrower than what other brands use, can't imagine that can be good with the forces they have to withstand.
@@tocaamerillo431 So you're saying Fuzzy Wuzzy was a woman?
Also I dont get the weight argument. Hollowtech BB is ~200g lighter, but at the same time Square Taper / Octalink cranks are ~200g lighter.
Me and millions of others had far more hassles with HT2 than with square taper.
I am reading about HT2 bearings worn out very quickly almost daily.
You can remove the individual sprockets from a freewheel. If you did not notice the smallest sprocket is what holding the others in place. If you unscrew it then you can remove any sprocket and replace it if you find one.
Must mention the axle issues with freewheel hubs.
The drive side bearings are way to far from the axle end, often causing bent axles
i had 2 bikes with a freewheel, on the 2.2" mtb the axle was a little bent after a while but rideable, on a 4" fatbike the bearings are so far that the axle bent so much it was barely rideable lol
I persevered with a 7s freewheel for many years. 7s is the limit for safe axles and i still had a few axle failures. Took a wheelbuild project to bring my bike into the 21st century.
Square taper old? I've still got cotter pins on one of my bikes. :). 1976 BSA 10 speed - now that's old!
I didn't even know there was anything newer than square taper! Am I outdated? :P
i'm afraid the most outdated component on my bike is; ME.
I have the same problem! And my bike is really outdated--bought it new in 1985 and my first real ride on it was out of Heathrow airport at the start of four months of cycling around Europe. Still riding it today, with a freewheel and square tapered bottom bracket.
I know the most outdated component on my bike is ME! I also know, in the beginning, some Freewheels could be
completely dis-assembled with a couple of cog wrenches. You could actually select the number of teeth you wanted on each cog (sprocket) of the set of five. I believe the most outdated set of cogs on bicycles is a 10,12, 15, 18, 21, or 24 speed cluster that ends with a 14 tooth High Gear Cog or Sprocket. Cycling is based on the old Weight to Power ratio. The lighter the better! 11, 12, or 13 tooth cogs are lighter in weight than 14 or 15 tooth cogs. If the size and weight can be reduced at the rear wheel it can also be reduced at the Chain Ring. Better ground clearance would be a big advantage for off-road cycles (BMX and Mountain Bikes). One thing BMX did for Cycling is to bring longer crank arms into the picture. 180 cm crank arms instead of 160, 165, or 170s. That, of course, puts more stress on the bottom bracket. That stress is concentrated right where the aluminum crank arms meet the square tapered steel shaft. Most of the bearings used in sealed bottom brackets are off the shelf items from electric motor industrial applications. They do have an angular contact specification and a much better riveted ball retainer built right into them. They are made to run at revolutions no man will ever achieve at the cranks (1700 RPM or better). The same rules apply to the bearings used in sealed bearing hubs for bicycles. In the early days of BMX SR made a tubular one piece chrome-molly crank. Hollow from pedal threads to pedal threads. It was made for the American Bottom Bracket. I had a Schwinn Continental with an SR Tubular installed. It made it a little lighter. I rode it in the 85 Lake Hefner Streak. That was the indestructible crank. I had a Bike with a Shimano 8-Spline BB shaft. Stripped in no time! No Thanks! Hollow BB shafts are available for square tapered types. I think it's funny that for the first 15 years of Mountain Bike production there was not a Kevlar belted tire, in sight, anywhere. There were Kevlar belted IRCs for Road Bikes and Touring models the whole 15 years and still today! You have no ride without Kevlar! 72 in June!
Me too!
Lool. Yup in my forties now and decided to take up cycling. If I could just replace me then job done! 😂😂😂
Know the feeling people,I think my knees will go before the square taperd pedals 🤣🤣🤣
I agree. That said, the freewheels and square taper cranks on my old bikes still work well and are easy to maintain. The cartridge bearing system on my newer Cannondale bike works well, but I need to buy expensive tools to maintain it, and the removal / install process is more complicated.
None of the reasons mentioned for Cassette vs. Freewheel are remotely sensible. The primary reason for a cassette is it allows the bearings in the rear hub to be roughly equally spaced, reducing hub wear and torsional load.
Thank you! Freewheel hubs often suffer from bent axles due to this. The person who did this video is clearly not that knowledgeable able bike mechanics.
you got it ... the main improvement with cassette systems is position of the bearings.
True, I have broken many rear axles on old freewheel hubs.
Yes, I suffered broken axles many times before switching to cassettes! That's the main reason for the change.
Ah. I was going to say "but a whole freewheel is cheaper than replacing a single cog, if people even do that."
I work on outdated freewheels make sure to grease the threads before you put them on
Yes. Please grease the threads. I have spent hours trying to remove freewheels that are stuck. USE GREASE
I am always amazed with the snooty attitude many bicyclists have towards their gear. I am not of that type. I ride all 4 seasons in Michigan commuting just about everyday. My commute is only 3 miles but that is OK cuz im almost 60 yo. Couldnt care less whether my 2 Giant bikes (Boulder ladies frame for winter and Cypress DX mens frame for the rest) has an 'outdated' freewheel or not. My bikes are always bought used and usually for under $200. Couldnt care less about the weight either. By the time they are all loaded and rolling we are at around 250lbs most days. Ride because you enjoy it. I still do, even though some dumb b*tch did a felony hit-and-run against me 2 weeks ago.
Ist the old threadedfreewheel is not heavier . It has the hub included yes . And the newer freehub has the free hub built into the hub . They both have bearings and one way cogs that wear out. You can and I did remove the gears on my threaded freewheel ..... And you can get 8 gears . As far as I know . I got a 8 gear set for $8 usa .the gears and hub included.
But it's out of date so their is not a lot of options . You can not get single gears . But at 8 bucks for a whole set . Not a big deal . It's also not hard to take off if you use the "chain whip" tool .. if I where bored and wanted to spend money I might change the newer freehub . Cause there is more gearing options .
I would need to buy the hub . Remove all the spokes and reassemble then buy the cassette with gears I wanted .
.I won't be doing that any time soon .
Exactly! All my bikes have square tapered bottom bracket. One touring bike I have had since 1985 still has the original BB with separate bearings, cups and spindle. It's very tough if you maintain it once every few years. I don't race so the stiffness or a few grams of weight mean nothing to me. The newer inventions came and went quickly. The Octalink BB was called revolutionary, then was obsolete in about 5 years.
The square tapered crankset is still better, than those that were attacked with a cotter. ^_^
i stripped out those pins in a single ride. that design was near useless. I think that's why square taper lasted so long, it was simple and so durable than the cottered crank. In addition to that, it was just about universally compatible not including the whole stupid "diamond" vs "square" thing and campy gear.
I remember those, you had to hammer them in and then tight the nut to the almost stripping point jut to get them to work :(
yah. i have 1x 58t chainring litepro square taper to my mtb and 11t-32t 7speed thread cogs DNP brand... long ride.... believed me hallowtech cannot do my setup
You didn't mention the biggest disadvantage with freewheel. The hub axle is unsupported within the freewheel which results in broken axles and bent quick release
Square taper is good since it save my knee. The external bearing system only care about chainline not about Q-factor.
i'm still using a square taper BB on my mtb , built the bike 17 years ago and only changed the BB once , square taper BB's are bomb proof so thats why folk still use them :) , i have that crank on my bike too haha , its heavier than my old alloy shimano crank but like the BB its very hard wearing and will last years of abuse , i think your talking from a racers perspective and not the every day riders perspective , old is not always bad you know :)
I dont believe you- not one bit.
you don't believe what ? , everything I have said is a fact , what is your experience of square taper BB's ? , I have hollowtech 2 on my racing bike and I love it too but I don't believe its going to be as durable as the square taper ( although its dead easy to remove and clean )
I have wore out too many square taper cranks to count. the alloy arms get rounded out and become lose. hollow tech 2 is the only way to go. the bearings themselves don't last any longer just the interface to the arms.
BBs are not hard wearing at all- not if you are riding outdoors. even in perfect weather, your bb will get contaminated and you will have to repack, but before you do your bearings will get pitted. 17 years is not proof you speak with any authority- in 17 years you should have have plenty of learning experience gained from necessary work on your own bike, including mistakes, but you speak as though everything was perfect from day one as proof your square BB is better.
Square BBs have been snapped clean in final sprints.
Everyone not living in florida or saskatchewan who rode "back then" will remember the large chainring rubbing on a good climb if you forgot or failed to downshift in time. Or a bit of play caused by loosening of the cups, breaking-down/wash out of grease, or perhaps an italian thread, binding caused by over-tightening etc. But nope, you dont. Your own words undermine your credibility - sorry to be blunt, but I would rather be rude than let some novice reading your post be misguided by what I know is your assumption your little experience is of such an authoritative value on the subject.
Laszlo Zoltan have you ever used a square taper bb ? , they are a sealed unit , the only thing that went on mine was the rubber seals , all i hear from you are assumtions and anecdotes from things you've heard or remember , i live in the north of the UK and ride throughout the year in snow and ice to nice sunny weather , i speak from experience and that of my mates who haven't had to change their bb yet , i asked you for your experience and you haven't got any , I'd hate it if anyone read your post and made a bad decision based on your assumptions and not experience
I totally disagree with square tapered bottom bracket. For racing - sure, the 2-piece cranksets lower weight and A BIT better stiffness (not a huge difference actually!) will benefit.
But for touring and commuting, where longevity is the thing, the square tapered bottom bracket beats the shit out of external bearings in 2-piece cranksets. Especially while frequently used in bad weather conditions.
My personal experience on my touring bike - after riding down 3 sets of bearings for 2 piece cranksets, each one lasting approximately 1500km i sold the crankset and switched to square tapered one. After 8000km it's still in pristine condition.
You did not mention the crappiest relic that is still commonly used in some tourers and commuters, especially dutch bikes - the threaded headset!
Yeah, I dunno what Medawk is talking about, I have 3 years and about 9,000 miles on my FSA mego exo BB and crank (you know, something snobs would turn their noses up at anyway) and the damned thing spins like the day I bought it.
Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe Medawk is just unlucky, but I smell some bullshit.
I was agreeing with you, fam. My point was that seemingly nobody likes the MegaExo (a 2 piece crankset) to begin with (they usually replace it with Shimano or Sram as soon as they can) and yet still the damned thing lasted 9k miles!
(PS the mega exo sealed bb is about the same price as the origin 8 torg sealed bb,, so I dunno what you're talking about)
That said, extreme Touring requires a rider to be able to fix things on the road, where ever and whenever in order to survive the trip. This means, unlike road cycling where you come home every trip, touring exists in a world of pragmatic ludditism, in that it's not so much the risk of failure, because after 1000 miles in a few weeks a failure becomes inevitable, but the risk of your broken bike being unfixable. It is likely that when things go wrong, it'll be far from a minor city and farther still from an LBS which has the newest parts in stock. Which means that while a 2 piece crank might be superior technologically in every way; that fact is little comfort if those parts fail (for whatever reason), you can't fix them, and then you're stuck walking 200 miles in the middle of sister-fuck nowhere. At least thanks to square taper's extreme cheap ubiquity and age you can sleep easy knowing that almost any town with even a cheap Kmart bicycle shaped object will probably have the parts and the tools to fix a broken square crankset and BB. Failing that the tools used to service square tapers can be easily approximated and parts could be kludged together in a friendly machine shop or tractor supply, hell it beats walking.
Actually all you really need is a hammer, the hex key from your multi-tool, a block of wood, and some motivation to pull a crank off a square taper BB fam.
Second of all not every town has a bike shop, and not every store who sells bikes is a bike shop. Are you sure that you can find an external BB wrench deep within pennsyltucky, the South American jungles, the desert, or central Africa? And forget about adjustments, how certain are you that you can find the newest replacement parts within the distant forgotten regions of the world? Bikes are everywhere, but external BB are not, because they aren't cheap. QED, square BB have THREE advantages, they're cheap, they're easy to source because they're everywhere, and, in a pinch, they don't require special tools.
GXP is famous for failing almost immediately around here. Hollowtech less so, but I tend to leave both in the box and grab a Chris King or a Hope. Ceramic ball bearings in a bb are pretty much snake oil, there's very little benfit, and if your greased stainless bearings rust, you're doing something very wrong.
There's a reason some things are still around. It's because they were well designed to begin with. It's all well and good to go down the path of having the latest and greatest but for those of us who enjoy lugged frames and the classic (ever-serviceable) tech and who like to remember where things came from, the older stuff will still have appeal to riders and collectors alike.
My daily rider is a 1985 Fuji Professional with a Suntour Superbe Pro groupset (friction shifting) and my newer ride is a Scott CR1 SL with SRAM Red 11. From a performance standpoint the Scott certainly leaves nothing to be desired and it's what I use for my long distance and high elevation gain rides but there's an undeniable silkiness with which the Fuji goes about its business, not to mention the more forgiving nature of its lugged steel frame, that makes it just so much fun to ride. I also don't feel weird about locking it up when I'm running errands. It also helps that it was the exact model I wanted when I was a kid but could never dream of affording.
Surely, technological progress is important and will continue to make our lives "easier" but I'm one of those people that likes to look forward while also looking back, not forgetting where we came from and not losing my connection to the old ways.
I routinely average 18 mph on my old 87 schwinn 6 sp down tube shifters 14 x 28 freewheel. Good wheels are everything not the components if working properly.
Yep. I still have 3 old suntour superbe pro equipped bikes. Easily the most durable components ever made. All sealed bearings and pivots. Have a suntour XC pro mtb and that is even better, with grease points on every bearing. Will still be going when our sun goes supernova!
My first long distance tour was on a hollowtech 2. It was also my last.
In 2010 I ate through two hollowtech BBs. I had had the frame faced and the BBs were installed in different countries/workshops. When touring I often carry quite a bit of weight (including my guitar) as well as putting out quite some power. The bike often gets very wet (Norway was pretty wet in the summer of 2010.
I've since gone back to square taper. The weight with decent components is pretty comparable but I do notice some flex when pushing a lot of watts. That said I've never had a un55 fail on me and have a square taper that has done at least 40 000km.
There's no maintenance issues with a freewheel as you simply replace it when it wears out. Also it means you have a simpler hub which is a good thing. The main downside of a freewheel hub is weakness. The design was pre mountain bike and the exposed axel will break easily on rough terrain. The way to remove it easily is by placing the remover tool in a vice/vise and turning the wheel.
Exactly. Just buy the 'tool' and clamp it in your vise & rotate wheel...carefully.
I have broken rear axles in road bikes. So freewheel type hub is a slightly less durable design for axles.
My other bike still uses a 1980's 6 speed free wheel and a Shimano bottom bracket with Shimano On-Road crankset 52T 42T, and it still works perfect for me without any issues since I first installed it from my on-road bike. I've been using my GXP bottom bracket for the last 6 years and I only regreased it once and it is still in perfect condition and no lateral play.
Good Clip. I noticed a big improvement going to HollowTech II Cranks. And am a big fan of Compact 50-34 Teeth for the older riders. With Ultegra 32-11 11speed cassette for steep hill climbs. Thanks.
Square Taper is great for touring. It's hard wearing and easier to get spares in most countries.
perfectly said
You missed the main advantage of the cassette which is that it allows us to put the bearings of the cassette out near the hub axle-nuts or QR nuts, so the axle is supported at the ends and is under much less stress and breaks/bends far less often. That's essential for 135mm MTB hubs and good for 130mm hubs. When were multi-cog freewheels invented? Maybe 1930's? 1940's?
I just got rid of my Octalink BB and cranks just this past weekend and replaced with the Deore. The Octalink shells needed a impact gun to remove
The GB Olympic bikes used a square tapered Sugino, and it's not by accident.
TA & campag (pista) runs on square taper
Octalink vs square taper- stiffer, but smaller bearings wear out quicker. That said, I use an old Deore octalink on my single speed mountain bike because for high- torque low rpm as you said the hollowtech 2 pich bolt system couldn't handle the lateral forces and the LH crank would invariably fail. SRAM GXP doesn't have this problem however and I generally use this on my road bikes. External bearings wear out quicker than internal ones due to road/ off-road grit exposure. I don't really notice much flex on the inexpensive but decent Sugino 110BCD square taper crank on one of my road bikes.
Cartridge bearings- tough enough, never noticed an issue with lateral loads in wheels, but this could contribute to rapid wear in cranks. Cheap and easy to set up.
Freewheels- biggest issue is that the rear wheel isn't supported at either end, stressing the axle. They are however MUCH cheaper than cassettes and freehubs. Never had an issue with removal and I'm a strong 90KG who rides quite aggressively- you just need a long lever.
Matt Wallwork if you go from 7 speed freewheel to 7 spd cassette cassette wil be cheaper. Also easier to service.
Bottom brackets have become a serious pain in the last few years. And failure can lead to an unusable frame. The external bearings are lighter and stiffer in all applications. 45 years of wrenching has shown me that most riders do not maintain their bikes to the level they should. I would much rather deal with the old adjustable cone and bearings than the BS and problems I have found with the newer pressed bearings and the carnage that some people impose on their bikes. Square taper is fine in many stetting's, like road, city and touring were forces are linier and steady. But, they are not as stiff where serious torque application is necessary. And, if you fail to keep specified torque on the left bolt there is a risk of the arm getting wallowed out. If that happens it's toast. If BB threads become rusted, corroded or packed with grit, especially around beaches and coastal areas, they are a bear to remove or impossible. A hundred times I've found them cross threaded. With press fit I have seen damage to the frame from badly installed or removed bearings.
Hi Torchedini, you're probably right in some countries, but a 7sp cassette is hard to find nowadays. I've had Shimano freehubs fail and had to replace them along with the cassette, which is quite expensive, but never (as far as I recall) had a freewheel fail, they'll wear out before then and are quite cheap. Biggest problem is the lack of support for the axle at the right-hand end with a screw-on hub, I have seen plenty of solid axles bend with a heavy rider and have broken a couple of QR axles myself, back in the day. Freehubs are better in every way bar price IMHO.
Bryan, agreed. I've lost a few decent cromoly frames to seized in bottom brackets. Most folks don't maintain their bikes anywhere near as well as they should.
I like the part about spreading the bearings out. This is another reason why freewheels are not good. They force the axle bearings inward on drive side, which leads to a lot more broken axles. With bearings closer in, they give the axle a longer lever arm. This produces a larger moment about drive side bearings than would occur with most cassette hubs of the 10mm axle type.
i would go with the up grade on my bike with a complete set brakes included.
love this alot, good information for me and the problems i have had in front and rear.
Iv had a campag chorus square taper bottom bracket in my bike for 20 years and done thousands of miles on it.
Its still runs slick and as good as the day it was fitted.
If your square taper cranks are moving around, it's because someone tried to install them by just tightening the nuts/bolts on the arms. A square taper joint MUST be hammered on, and no I don't mean taking a claw hammer and beating your arms to a pulp. A deadblow hammer with repeated blow/tighten, blow/tighten, will set the wedge in the taper without damaging anything in the BB. I've been working on bikes for 45 years, LONG before all this high tech we have today, and this is how it's always been done
I like a hammer tap myself. I mean -you don't want to whack the crank arm. You can damage the bottom bracket and or the BB bearing cups.
If it ain't broken, don't fix it. My 2 cent.
I had an old Swiss made cup and cone square taper set up once and so long as it got serviced properly worked faultlessly. Not got the bike anymore so it's gone now but since then I've had real trouble finding another bottom bracket system as good. The new systems you showed us in your video look nice and they obviously have their advantages but if I could just get my hands on a good quality vintage type again I'll be happy.
John here from the Philippines. We still have unsealed Bottom Bracket. It is the kind where you change the 2 bearings and add grease every 3 months. Bearings are like $0.30 a piece. We also use unsealed bearings for our axles, we open it up once in 2 months to add grease and change the bearing if busted. We also have bikes the still use the quill stem. The freewheel is great! It sometimes last the same lifespan as the frame, rust and wear and tear-wise with our imperfect roads. A lot of use still have sections of commute where the concrete is 50 years old hence bumpy or gravel and mud, e.g. the rice and sugarcane plantations. Here our BMX, MTB's and road bikes we use for commuting, average 5 kilometers one way or more. We can only swallow at most $2 of maintenance per week. Our daily minimum wage is about $8. A brand new Chinese- made mountain bike is $190. We are happy enough to buy Japanese surplus commuter bikes and maybe mountain bikes, the few that they are at $230. The cheapest of the local used BMX bike here could be both for $30 but that amount is like food for a family of 3 in 1 week. We survive on $2 interior and $6 tires which last us a year. It might be outdated where you are but we might be forced to walk the distance without them.
1. you mention weight of the freewheel but it has in effect got the freehub as well so compare to the weight of the cassette and freehub to be fair.
2. square taper bb's are really tough and last longer so not necessarily worse, depends on application.
3. if cartridge bearings are so bad what do you think is in what you say are better bb's - cartridge bearings of course.
4. just because the design is old does not always make it worse.
more bad, poorly informed advice from this guy.
ShameTactics well you are entitled to your opinion but I didnt mention cranks in 3 only bb's and you seem to support my comments with you comments so not quite why you feel I'm being overly negative. The point was on one hand he supports cartridge bearings in bb's but then thinks they are bad in the next item? .. it just all seems ill thought out and rather pointless.
He said that you need special tool for removing square tapered cranks. What do you need for removing bb on ht II?
Buy less crap from FSA, you will not have these problems.
Donald Gillies FSA does make some crap pf bbs...
Well, really depends on the make. The basic shimano cups are dirt cheap. Really, they cost less than a 9 speed chain. And they last the full season at the very least. That is, for someone who rides 4 or more times a week.
But the sweetest thing is the ease of maintenance. Not just removing the crank arms, but also replacing the bearing cups is something you can entrust to a 5 year old child. Well, minus remembering how many spacers you need.
cartridge bearings are easier and simpler for manufaturers, campy and shimano still use cup and cone on their high end wheel hubs.
Yes, but they are not as easily serviceable as open bearings and often they come press-fitted into parts (wheel hub) and require special tool to make a replacement. Although places like headset obviously better with sealed ones.
Square tapered bottom brackets are great as long as you make sure that the bolts holding your cranks on them are kept tight.As any movement would warp the soft alloy of your cranks,rendering them useless.Ideally you should use thread lock on the bolts. But grease the pin to stop creaking sounds. I used them for years with very few problems. They are also more durable in my experience than the splined or octolink ones. One problem I did find with the square ones,was that they could end up welding themselves to the crank,if not serviced pretty regularly. I certainly don't think they should be made obsolete.
I remember the old serviceable cotter-less bottom brackets well also,as long as you installed them properly they were great,and with good regular servicing they lasted years,they also had the square taper.
Man i have been searching on youtube for like 24hr watch time, but ur video was finaly the one which told what are benefits of different types of BB n why one is better than the other. i was in dire need to know why should, n to what type of BB should i Upgrade to.
THANX A LOT!
I like both options for different reasons. i love my classic bicycles with cup and cone, however, the cartridge bearings are super easy to quickly service. i did notice that both of my experiences with cartridge came not adequately greased from the bicycle shop / factory. i had to service them very soon after purchased, but since have been great. i do like the simplicity of the press fit cranks, but have had little problems with my classic square taper too. also, i suspect the old stuff will outlast everything as i have seen in the comments too. in the end, i like having the options for different purposes. more importantly, bicycles are awesome. :)
DFTA (Don't Feed The Animals) you're right they do needto be greased when they come out of the factory Threads also!
yes, threads...the forgotten area in the world of greasing parts. fear not, i treat my bicycles well in this regard! :) i'm guessing you have some classic bicycles and solid training as well?
these things come down to cost. Square taper cranks are cheap... hollowtech, GXP cost more
The biggest problem with the freewheel btw is bearing positioning along your rear axle. I have snapped 3 rear axles (QR) the last year due to the drive side bearings being so central to the hub.
Also I use square taper, octalink and hollow tech II bottom brackets on my fleet (depending which bike). Nothing wrong with any of these systems but they all do something different. My favourite for ease and longevity is the hollowtech II which is on both my hardtail and full sus MTB. Square taper would literally fall apart if i tried using it for riding trails.
I ride road every day on the square taper, doing about 1500-2000 miles a year in all weathers and I'm sorry, but I can't believe anyone who says they've been riding the same square taper BB almost 10 years without the bearings giving up on them.
Mine go about every 6-12m. The only way they are lasting nearly a decade, is if you barely ride.
The biggest difference between Square-tapered bearings and Hollowtech is. Lifetime of square-tapered is around 15-20 years and Hollowtech some 3-5 years.
I have two square taper BB bikes, one octalink, one Hollowtech and a BB30 cartridge bike.
The square tapers are fine, a little heavy. The octalink is an obvious improvement at the crank/axle interface. The Hollowtech is perfect. The BB30 constantly creaks and cracks.
Why do we use a freewheel? (And and any number of other crappy/heavy/cheap components.)
Because the laws of physics, engineering and economics still apply, that's why!
Light, cheap, strong.
Pick two. Simple, really.
light, cheap, strong. pick two. brilliant i'm using that if you don't mind.
You can thank Tom Ritchey for that quote.
more people outside bikes world wont any maintenance for their bikes, and does not metter whats components their use if the bikes still working as well.
Misses the point about durability and cost.
I have a two piece crank that uses the octalink connection on one side, the only special tool I seem to need is a really big crank Allen key, it works well because you can get the tension up on the crank shaft much easier.
fantastic video! I would just mention another of the main disadvantages of the freewheel: the bearings are less wide in distance -->less torsional stability of the wheel
I bet that slick biker would hate my friction gearing on my touring bike. I have friction because it is no maintenance on the road touring, if a cable breaks I change it out and tuning is not required!
Misha LeBlanc friction for the win... the hilarity of these bike videos is the application of this technology for touring versus say mountain bike trail racing versus say road bike racing is so totally different. for touring you need stuff that you can fix when you break down in China. When you have unlimited budget and you're racing money is no Object and seconds counts
I don't see whats wrong with a freewheel, yea they are harder to get off but I just replaced my freewheel and chain for £21 shimano and KMC parts. How many cassettes can you get for that?
Can you replace gearing from 12-25 to 11-32 in 5 minutes? Only issue is maintenance of freehub. But you can replace it without cogs.
but one point why freewheels are bad imo, he didnt mention at all, they wobble like hell and that is not really good :"D
They are not compatible with hardly anything like he said. If you wanted to upgrade hardly anything like wheels or a crank, it will drive you crazy. Plus they are heavy and you can't get a 12t or 11 t sprocket 14T is smallest you can get.
The biggest problem with the is the bearing placement on the axel. Because the drive side bearing is about an inch further inboard than the bearing in the freehub heavy vertical forces like those in routine mountain bike use causes the axel to bend. Then that happens it puts causes contact, friction and wear in the bearings. As well as increasing the already bad wobble of the sprockets and chain line. It leads to eventual failure of the freewheel. The HG system that has become the basic standard was designed specifically to address this problem for mountain bikes and has been carried over to basically all bike disciplines.
Are they any heavier than a cassette and freehub?
what do you recommend as better, what would you say is the best? What is good for long term use, ease or maintenance, and best performance?
Thanks for that, I was a bit out of touch with what is considered "outdated", my last bike was 30 years ago and used cotter pins
Free wheels are replaceable without scrapping the wheel
About bearings: you just don't think for yourself!
For the bottom bracket: even with a load slightly out of alignment, the balls are still resting on the races and not touching the space between the two rings. Changing to angular contact would require tightening from the sides, which would cause more friction and a loss of efficiency.
Angular contact are useful in the headset, where you have forces coming from two directions: vertical from bumps, and horizontal simply because the head tube is at a 73° angle which pulls the steerer forward at the bottom and pushes it back on the top end.
I prefer cup and cone bearings. I put custom cup and cone bearings on my midschool Haro Mirra BMX, and it felt a lot better than the typical BB bearings
Oh no this is what my $600 Giant Defy 5 has and you are right. Right after watching the video I went to see my bike and everything you showed as outdated my bike has. Thanks so much for this video. Now I know what to upgrade on my bike.
IMHO square taper will NEVER BE OUTDATED! Why? Because for one they are stronger than any other type of crankset I've ever used - and I beat the crap out of my bikes, having been a messenger. Plus most square taper cranksets use SEALED BOTTOM BRACKETS where your supposed 2 piece (really a 3 piece as you have to include the bottom bracket along with the two other pieces) use an external bottom bracket which is NOT SEALED, therefore letting things like water and dirt get inside, making the life of the BB less than that of a sealed one. (currently on year #9 with the same exact square tapered crankset and bb and it still works the same as the day I bought it.) So no, I don't think square taper is outdated. Sorry.
if jason kenny and the gb squad used square taper on the track bike it cant be that bad
I like square taper, but not sealed cartridge square taper. I find the seals more than adequate on the modern external threaded cups, and I love the easy maintenance of old cup-and-cone systems, but I can't stand the disposable cartridges - they're heavy, expensive and unreliable, and you can't fix them when they start to wear. I have two shimano 105 chainsets - a 1056 with cartridge BB, and a 5800 with ultegra external bb. I love the look of the old one, but it is noticeably less stiff, and though it is extremely light without a bb, the weight of the cartridge is significant.
Square taper bbs and cranksets are absolutely weaker than 2 piece cranksets. The advantages of square taper begin and end with cost.
Skooteh Oh yeah, tell that to my Sugino Square Taper cranks that I've had since 2008, along with my Shimano sealed bottom bracket. (I ride that bike every day 50-60 miles per.) Still works just as good as the day I first got them while everyone that I know who uses those 3 PIECE CRANKSETS (2 pieces + bottom bracket = ?? 3 pieces. They don't ride on themselves. They need a bottom bracket as well) consistently complain about how their bottom brackets break within 6-9 months because of rain, sleet and snow. So in no way are they superior to ST. Next!!
And some ST setups cost MORE THAN THOSE OTHER CRANKSETS. Sugino 75's are $275 for just the arms. Then add another $200 for their chainrings and bottom brackets and it's $475. So save me the bullshit about cost.
Not every bike is for racing. When they start making components for the largest segment of bicycle production (under $300), only then will you start seeing the "outdated" stuff going away. The stuff just isn't cheap enough to set the bar for the lowest common denominator.
To be fair he's not really talking about commuter bikes and touring. I do hate freewheels though.
Yeah, the old freewheel is getting old hat now along with cup n cone bottom brackets but everything here is all still totally usable on our good old everyday rides as long as you look after them and keep up with maintainance! Essentially not everyone is bothered about saving a few ounces/grammes unless they're serious racers when weight limits come into play.
Absolutely agree about bearing. I think they first became popular when small manufactures entered the market and did not have the ability to produce cup and cone bearings and so used cartridge getting instead. I have a couple of sets of wheels with XT cup and cone beatings and have never had to service the bearing. With cartridge bearing they seem to fail quit quickly.
Este tipo de vídeos me hace sentir bien pinche pobre y que vivo en la edad media o algo así jajaja, porque en Colombia todos esos sistemas son usados por la mayoría.
Dude he is polka.
Y los seguiremos usando, un ejemplo es la gente que viene a Vietnam a hacer recorridos en bicicleta, algunos traen lo mas moderno y ligero, como si fueran a una competencia, y se sorprenden cuando les decimos que las bicicletas que usamos y alquilamos tienen esos "antuguos componentes porque son mas duraderos en las condiciones de aqui. Los americanos y el ignorante que hizo el video comen con los ojos y oidos, en vez de ber los hechos y ventajas de systemas robustos y baratos.
When you "upgrade" these parts and they feel stiffer, smoother, more efficient it's just your subconscious tricking you so you don't feel bad about spunking your hard earned on something you already had!
And the Earth is flat and the Sun orbits around it because science is nothing compared to your perception of the world.
Very true
Why you even watching this video if you don't want to upgrade
@@pradeepnayak3368Because I want to see how afflicted people are by GAS: Gear Acquisition Syndrome - The need to have the latest and 'greatest', even when what they have works just fine.
Square taper is good when not over tightened. When I switched to 105 Octalink crank from 600 square taper crank It definitely felt stiffer but that could the crank. I think maintenance is easier with the newer cranks. You can mushroom square taper cranks if you don't use torque wrench.
I found your comments just in time. My square taper BB is behaving for now (after 3 service visits) but it looks like my chain wheels are heading towards a shark fin hook. I found a great price on Shimano Deore M590 9 speed triple. I just need to confirm the BB width and I'll order to hold in reserve. Thanks.
PS: Last year I did a wheel upgrade that included an 11-speed free wheel hub and shimmed it down to 9 speed.
In my many years as a bike messenger in Canada i have broken many frames but never a square taper BB but they can very hard to remove.
fat ex-messenger
Anonymous Coward I discovered the best way to remove them is with an air powered impact wrench, a cheap light duty impact and cheap air compressor will do the job just fine.
only when you don't grease them and servise thme, when i greased hem i didn't have that isue
How much money does Shimano give you for this? Or are you just hoping for free stuff?
I've put a BMX-style bottom bracket and crank on my 26" dirt jumper. It's basically a mix of that octalink system and the non-drive side clamp of that crank set u showed. The teeth on the axle are much longer and taller tho, and it's a CroMo axle so I'm sure it's gonna last longer than I live. And the bearings in the BB cups are accessible from the outside so they should be very easy to replace.
I'd prefer that same crank system on my other bike which has an octalink BB and crank set and a 1x9 shifting group on it but I'd need a 32T chain ring in the front to be able to reach proper speeds and I'm not sure 32T chain rings exist for the BMX-style cranks.
I'm on the original Shimano square taper on my MTB after 17 years; no extra flex apparent from the frame itself, and the bearings spin smoother than any external cup system I've yet found. Heavier, but the flex issues are grossly exaggerated except for pro peloton sprinters. The inherent alignment of the left and right bearings allows tighter tolerances, seals, and minimal play versus external cups that inevitably are out of plane, get water and grit nearly as fast as the original open cups before the sealed canister became the norm. External cups allowed large tubular spindles for weight and stiffness, but at a high cost of reliability and well, cost. Ironically now that bottom bracket openings are large enough, Shimano and others may revert to a single sealed unit which would press or thread into one side and contain both bearing sets, coming full circle and providing the proper alignment the bottom bracket part of the frames themselves have failed to provide.
Sorry but this video is full of BS.
Nothing wrong with SQ taper BB. Remember when 9 spd XTR used SQ taper BB?! It's was the shizzle izzle back then and it still works just great Got a MTB from the early/mid 00' era and it's still rock solid.
The old school XT/XTR stuff is better quality than the new systems.
Jajaja yo también sentí lo mismo. Soy de Argentina y tengo varias bicis con esos componentes.
agree 100% with Christians comment
ive got a square taper and a gxp, and i prefer the gxp more cuz its not as flexy under sprinting loads
9-speed XTR never had square taper. It had Hollowtech Version 1 already at M950 which was 8-speed.
Hollowtech 1 was shit though.
+Chris Witek: same bike, I assume? More expensive frames are also usually much stiffer. My external cup BB in my steel track frame is much less stiff than the octalink in my an aluminium racing frame. And, the only modern carbon frame, I've tried felt no more stiff than the (almost 20-years old, back then pro-level) aluminium frame (and, that is why I still drive with it).
I dunno why you hating on these parts. They make more people get on the bike. And these parts do not define the bike. It's always the rider.
Fine if that's the bike you have but I wouldn't buy a new bike with a freewheel
My friend Nick modified his Bullseye crank set for drop in bearings replacement in about 1996. Built his own Downhill front hub (the BIGFOOT) and made several other really effective upgrades & new components that he still uses today. Several of his ideas got "invented" by big companies 10 years after he was riding them around. Thers are some fantastic people about.
I agree to a certain degree. I have been a bike mechanic for many years, and I see problems with all of the parts you have pointed out. There are more problems with the cartridge bearings in the cranks than the older outboard bearings they used before. Thanks for the video.
from what my bike shop guy said on it (as I went in there the first time with a Walmart bike and I KNOW the bearings are a low-point with them) is that the bad rap they get is half down to the basement-low price they're made at. they'll always be a bit worse then those cone bearings, but a decent set is at least servicable.
If you turn off the volume on this video and simply watch, it looks like a 1970s/1980s "Fingerbobs" episode #beingold
I have heard so much nonsense in this video.
Square tapered bottom brackets are strong and stiff. There heavy, but use larger ball bearings thus more durable.
If you get chainrub on your front mech i think your frame is flexing. Maybe a stiffer frame or just use proper gearing?
Most of the Olympic Track cyclists use Square tapered bottom brackets, and those guy's can push big gears.
Don't believe everything the manufacturers tell you.
They once said that bb30 was the best option for bracket mounting.
But after a decade i know my next bike will have BSA threading for my MTB and Road bike.
From personal experience, I can make my chainrings flex if I really push in the hardest gear on a 52 front, 11 rear setup. Even with a brand new BB there is enough flex to make the chain rub the front mec. I can't make this happen with a hollowtech crankset/BB. It is stiffer for sure.
William Hitchens in my opinion it's not the axle on itsself that's flexing. Depending on the frame you can also get chainrub on a modern hollow type bracket.
Well this is on the same frame. A chromo steel cx bike.
square is flexing - bearings are supported in board, unlike ' modern' bearings which are supported at a greater distance.
I have both systems. I use a square on my city bikes and it is fine, especally on my single speed.But I love my HT2 system on my MTB, when I first swapped from ISIS drive I was amazed how stiff it is.
i have found that freewheel systems allow me to reposition the freewheel relative to the driveside dropout by adding or removing spacers from both sides of the hub. freehub systems can be repositioned by spacers as well but it is more difficult to get the cassette closer to the dropout due to the locknut thickness limitations which dictates the cassette location.
square taper systems, both adjustable cup and cartrige systems, allow for positioning of the crank relative to the cassette or freewheel simply by selecting a spindle length. newer systems do not appear to offer such advantages.
it is true that the newer cranks would offer greater stiffness but the crank position would determine how long the chainrings and cassette would last. a bad chainline would grind the sides of both away quickly and force more frequent replacements
Still riding Regina America 6-Speeds on three out of four (Schwinn LeTour, Stumpjumper and Masi 3V) bikes. Glad I bought a Regina cog board and a bunch of Sedis Sport chains years ago. But gotta admit, the Seven Ti/Carbon with Dura Ace 7800 is a lot more fun.
Not sure about everything you said, but it's normal I guess.... I think cassette and derailleurs and chains are obsolete. Make a gearbox already!
He missed the primary weakness I see in bikes with freewheels vs freehub hubs. My customers regularly break the axle on the 7 speed freewheel bikes. This is due to the placement of the bearing on the drive side. The freewheel bike has that right side bearing located closer to the center of the bike than the freehub bikes. This is where the axle breaks. The freehub style hubs have the bearings located more outboard on the drive side. The other things noted are somewhat true, but there are a lot a caveats that go with that statement that I will not enter on a forum like this.
You should never hit a fixed axle you will shorten the life of the bearings, put some heavy grease on the axles before assembly to allow the arms to settle correctly, i have never had a loose crank arm.
About that third crank system those little ribs on the spindle if you push too hard they will strip because I've had numerous spindles and stuff with those specific threads or lines on them and every time I've tried to take and push hard frenchtons I had a 1985 Kawasaki 160 3 wheeler with the same threads or lines on the shifter that were stripped after just a few uses of the shift rod so that thirds crankshaft has his back drawls to
can an older, say 1998 through 2008 bike that were fitted with "standard" square spline crank system be retrofitted with the newer 2 piece crank system? S, would the new bottom bracket bearings fit the older frame or are there any dimension restrictions?
1:41
hope he bought it dinner
gay - real men drive bikes with cotter pin cranks
I switched to Chris king headset on my trek 6300, Chris king bsa BB 30 will be installed too, with Race Face turbine cranks. I can't use the cheap outdated stuff because I destroy them by riding them, I'm about 75 kg with all gear on.
Last year i started cycling and the road bike i bought had 14-24 6 speed free Wheel, it didnt last long so i sold it and bought an used caad8, now im planning to upgrade it with the new shimano sora and keep banging the roads!!
Edgar Studillo buy 105 😊
new sora is great, properly indexed it shifts better than any 105 bike I have ever ridden. Probably because they were not as well indexed. All the new sora is is a 9 speed 105. All the same shift mechanisms.
There has never been a freewheel made in which it's impossible to swap out any of the original sprockets. Do some homework. Thumbs down, no subscribing.
So many butthurt people in the comment section that can't afford the newer lighter parts. I don't know what the hell all these people are yapping about like they work in the bike industry or something. But let me tell you that if you go into any bike shop or talk to anyone who is even serious about riding in general, they will tell you that what this guy speaks is the truth. Especially so if you are talking about MTB.
As someone who is "in the industry," I can tell you there's no butthurt in the critiques I see here. It's just a poor, misguided video.
I am also "in the industry" and I feel like it's kind of a love/hate relationship. Anyway, I mean to say the butthurts are the ones who say "so much bullshit in this video". He isn't lying, so I don't understand what exactly "bullshit"
I don't know what bike shops you go to, but the guy that runs mine said that unless I electrify my bike or find that hidden mountain in Iowa, I'm not going to get my money's worth out of all the high end componants he could sell me.
Sans the disc brake and the admittedly crap rear brake. Not because I'm going downhill, but more because people don't watch where they're going around here and the green light isn't a guarantee of safety.
You HAVE to be in the upper, what, 25% of people to even notice.
I will however add one... Fixed frame bikes... why do they not standardize those seatpost rack-mounting holes? whyyyyyy!? I've got a second seat clamp over the quick release clamp just to provide them.
My square taper bottom bracket took a lot of abuse from the city streets and it still has no negative 👎 issues.
Ny bottom bracket cartridge bearings on my Habit were dead after 1200km. That was really surpricing to see how fast they wear out.
Maybe they were so so quality, got better now and will see how long they last...
I really hate square taper and octolink, can't believe how many commentors singing there praises, horrid peices of design.
Are you planning to explain why? The only issue with square taper axles is that getting the right axle length for new cranks was sometimes difficult, but that was due to lack of specific information because they date from before you could look it up on the internet. Even if you have to test fit one and swap it out you still spend less time overall because the bearings don't shit themselves in less than a year.
Both Square taper and Octo can round out the inside of aluminum crankarms easily, so to claim that life with square taper BB is always sunshine and flowers is disingenuous. But really OP is being disingenuous too because he is not considering the needs of other people when claiming with some perceived authority that one option is obsolete.
If you like your bike light, square taper isn't the choice for you, however if you like you bike cheap and bomb proof, than a square taper works fine.
If you are crap at assembly then anything mechanical will fail, you have to know how to assemble correctly.
I bet you get your crank arms stolen every day, huh?
I'll stick with square taper.
The lighter weight of Hollowtech compared to squared tapered is the biggest lie ever! Separate the Spindle from the crankarm and put it together with the bearings on a scale. My square tapered "Tune" bottom bracket weighs about 180 gram. Now you!
good lord, what a load of crap.
ton of crap :)
thumbs up my friend
I've had Enduro stainless steel angular contact bearings in my BB for almost a year now. They take preload adjustment and side forces much better.
My bike cost 600 AUD, it has a cassette not a free hub and a sealed bottom bracket with tapered roller bearings but has a tapered square crank spindle. Is it worth upgrading my commuter bike with a two piece crank and bracket?
I haven't seen one of those freewheels for ages, but i have to confess my bike does have a squared tapered BB
i had a bike for 17 years and all i ever changed was the tires and rims and that pedal bearing set has never been replaced and it was still solid when it was stolen from my yard last year. and the handle bars were replaced still had original brakes on it since i disable the brakes when i get them. and i tortured the heck out of my bike and only greased it up once a year if i remembered. and i just spin the gears of the fixed gears sets and put new ones in when the old ones wore out. and the chain was original also.
Just bought a yukon fat tire Ebike it has Free wheel how would i change to the good caset ?
Dani, can you explain more about bearings (angular and the regular ones)?
Cheers from South America.
yea does shimino make all those upgrade s for a mongoose malus fat tire bike
what sizes do i need
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Question.
My bike has a square tapered bottom bracket. Is it possible to install the newer system on it? Like, is it compatible or are the measurements different?
Cartridge sealed bottom brackets are the best lasting part. An old school xtr square tapered cartridge sealed bottom bracket can last a really long time. Used it before and might be able to get it cheap on ebay.
Some modern road bikes comes in with press fit bottom brackets that are sometimes no good and will get a creaking noise if it is fit on poorly. Some manufactures are now going back to threaded bearing bottom brackets. Press fit bottom brackets are put on to some modern bikes to cut cost. Even expensive road bikes with press fit bottom brackets creaks with headaches. Also it depends how you use your bike. For sure freewheels are bad.
My issue with the freewheel is the offset bearings where the free-hub has essentially 3 sets of bearings (2 on the hub and one or two in the free-hub mechanism) so that our force ismoving the bike and not bending axles!
I am not concerned with the tapered BB it works great and low weight is of little concern. If you want to pick on weight target rotating weight as that is more of a factor to acceleration and responsiveness!
jak zwykle piekna robota dzieki. awessome job as usual thank you mate :)
can i upgrade my old bike from square tappered BB to hollowtech ? did it need modification or plug and play..?
I have about 8000 miles on a sealed bearing square/tapered bottom bracket. Works great, no movement of the crank arms, and I carry said tool with me. Then again I am a trained bicycle mechanic. The more complicated you make a bike, the more its apt to break down when you need it.. I have rebuilt wheels, bottom brackets and headsets using "Loose" round ball bearings. I've never seen a Angular ball bearing in my life. My Cousin used to work for a Japanese company that makes sealed/Cartridge bearings. I will soon replace the front wheel of my recumbent bike, with a wheel using sealed bearings. Sir, you really need to rethink this video. Talk to a Bicycle mechanic, show him this video and see what they think. Last thing, the spindle on a square/taper bottom bracket is made of Chrome Moly Steel, the crank arms are made of aluminum, and its the square holes in the crank arms that round out, unless you keep them tight.