4 BIG PROBLEMS Of 1x10, 1x11, 1x12 Drivetrains. 1 By Drivetrain - THE TRUTH. Part 1.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 січ 2017
- This is the first part of 1x12 drivetrains review.
Part 1: • 4 BIG PROBLEMS Of 1x10...
Part 2: • The TRUTH About 1x12 S...
Part 3: • If you were close to X... - Навчання та стиль
Part 2: ua-cam.com/video/vTTfcHeM2jc/v-deo.html
Sram Eagle on SALE: tidd.ly/3ea8aeea
Need an offset chainring..
2:09 backpedaling issue is solved by thinning out the thickness of the right rear dropout by use of a spinning grinder, a thinner dropout improves the farthest distance of the biggest cog to the chainring, they do this with the brand Sride 1x12, its a bit tedious metal work but effective or it may be solved if the chainring can be be moved inward further if possible without thinning the bottom bracket shell,
4:17 and 8:22 problems are apparent for weaker riders, 1x drivetrain is for bikers who can also do jogging on the mountains, sufficient stamina to compensate for the lack of gears, and stronger riders can use smaller cogs not to inflict friction on the chain from using huge cogs
8:58 is basically logical from the get go, bending the chain by using a single chainring really wears down the chain faster, i wonder if manufacturers used a special mix of metals for the chain specifically made for 1x setup, it should be supple but at the same time rigid enough not to stretch quickly, maybe because Shimano charges more on their price tag because of that physical characteristic of their chain, but since its only logical to perceive that problem, instead, i decided to downgrade the cassette sprocket down to 8 speed only to be gentle on the chain and use my stamina to compensate for the losses, in 34t ring, it is as if im climbing a steep gradient using a compact road crank of 50/34 only without the 50t and a sprocket not exceeding 42t 8speed, it depends on the track, if there are short changes to the gradient i use 1x, if the gradient change is long enough i use a bike that has a semi 1x, its actually a 2x but only without using a front derailleur, the seat tube is empty, just tough it out for the time loss only to get rid of that front derailleur lol
I come back here to check your concern about 1x system which i watched years ago. Mainly because i just learn about Campagnolo Ekar system. So can you give some insight of the new campy 1x13 groupset? Thanks bro.
It's a huge advantage to hear the opinion of someone that has actually used and experienced the different options available. Thank you.
From someone inside the industry.... The reason the industry pushed you into this. 1. Fewer parts to inventory and buy for manufacturing and warehousing for warranty and replacment sales. 2.Fewer parts that needed enginering and design year after year on the bikes drive train . 3.The fewer steps and faster assymbly results in labor savings in all aspects of bike manufacturing from spec., purchasing, warehousing, assymbly, packaging, shipping cost due to lower weight and more. 4. 1x opened up more options for suspension and frame design that again reduced cost of manufacturing.
You were pushed into 1x not for your riding benifit but for greater profitability of the manufacture.
Exactly...
Well, to be honest, the triple was in itself a workaround for getting that insane gear range while engineers didn't quite figure out how to get the range solely on cassette with reliable shifting. SRAM was simply the first to realize/remember about that and jumped the gun.
The only people that a 1x would sell to are those naive weekend poser riders. If you're a serious non-sponsored mtb racer who knows the benefit of quickly downshifting 3 or 4 gear ratios with a single drop of the chainring, the 1x marketing pitches are BS
@@josephcuison5412 those "poser weekend riders" are the bulk of the revenue for these bike companies. I fail to differentiate between a serious rider and a "poser" as you state simply by the choice of drivetrain. Sounds like a whole bunch of snobbery on your part, are you sure you shouldn't be on a road bike instead?
Well said. Don't forget that also you need to replace more often because the teeth and chain are thinner metal... Again, more money to the manufacturer.
I've been using 1x for over a year and respectfully disagree with many of the conclusions drawn in this video. But I also approach 1x from a different perspective: road cycling. I don't do mountain biking, cyclo-cross, gravel or cross-country. Let's address the 5 "problems" in the order presented in the video:
1 - Chainline and back-pedaling
In my opinion, the biggest error demonstrated in this video was a bad chainline in some of the author's bikes, then blaming the 1x system for it. The true problem was this: the author's chainring was not centered properly to his cassette, period. You cannot expect any drivetrain (1x, 2x, 3x) to perform properly with a faulty chainline. Singling out a 1x was wrong. Any bike mechanic worth his/her salt will quickly tell you how many bikes have bad chainlines -- even from respected manufacturers. One of the worst I've ever seen was on a Specialized Ruby Elite with a 3x10 Shimano 105 drivetrain. The only non-Shimano component in the drivetrain was an FSA crank and it located the center chainring almost 7 mm outside of the centerline of the cassette. You can imagine how badly off-center the large chainring was -- it was atrocious!
When I converted my road bike to 1x, I was very careful to create a good chainline. I've never had any back-pedaling problem whatsoever. My SRAM Red crank has a Stages Cycling power meter on its crank arm. So I back-pedal frequently to activate it and pair it to my cycling computer before each ride begins. I back-pedal for several minutes each time I lubricate my chain -- which is often since I cycle 5000-6000 miles per year (8045-9656 km). Never has it dropped off the biggest gear! Nor has it ever sounded bad!
2 - Power loss
As above, this was primarily a chainline problem. If the chainring was properly centered to the cassette, the chain would be quieter because there would be less friction when cross-chaining. And let's remember that cross-chaining should be less of a problem for a 1x drivetrain than any other setup (2x or 3x) because the 1x has only one chainring and, if it is properly centered to the centerline of the cassette, the offset of the chain at either cross-chaining extreme will be less. This is simple geometry.
If the chainline is properly centered, the biggest reason, in my experience, why some 1x drivetrains are a little noisier compared to a 2x is because of the alternating fat/narrow teeth on the 1x chainring. The wide teeth rub the plates of the chain more than the all-narrow teeth of 2x chainrings. This is more noticeable when cross-chaining.
But the issue of power loss presented in this video focused on only one part of a complicated issue. There are both benefits and deficits for these kinds of 1x chainrings. First, let's remember that they were designed with cyclo-cross in mind. The designers were thinking how to make it harder to drop a chain while improving efficiency of a dirty drivetrain. SRAM's X-Sync 1x chainrings claim to: (1) engage the chain pins earlier so more links are simultaneously pushed by the teeth, and (2) clear mud from the chain. If the first claim is true, it should add to the efficiency. Will it offset the increased resistance from the fat teeth? I don't know. And neither does the author of this video. I think it will take careful testing on a bike with a properly centered chainline and a power meter before any conclusions can be drawn. As for the second claimed benefit of clearing mud, that was addressed by the video in its 5th "problem" discussed below.
3 - Lack of gears
There's no argument here on the main issue. When you convert from a 2x or 3x to a 1x, you will have to give up some gear ratios. You might give up your largest ratios and have less top-end speed. Or you might give up your smallest radios and have less cadence on the steepest climbs. Or you may give up a little of both. This is the best reason why a 1x system is not for everyone. Each individual cyclist must assess his/her needs and choose a drivetrain that best satisfies them.
However, I disagree here with what I perceive as the "smaller" issue of cadence. Don't get me wrong: cadence is extremely important and I've lived with a power meter long enough to know all too well why a high cadence is often better than a low cadence when a high power output must be sustained. What I disagree about is how many gears we actually need. In my opinion, we've got too many! Perhaps my opinion is colored by my history. I started with 2x6 road drivetrains in the mid 80's and it seemed like plenty to me. I rode for years over all kinds of terrain with 52,42t chainrings up front and a 14-30t 6-speed cassette at the back. The only thing I wanted was more top-end. I almost never used the small chainring.
A 1x10 or 1x11 provides plenty of gear steps to maintain an 80-90 rpm cadence on most any road. Riders who claim to need more and finer steps between gear ratios in order to fine-tune their cadence seem crazy to me. I honestly believe that the only reason we have so many gears on our bikes today is because of marketing by bike manufacturers who each try to out-do the other so you will buy their bike instead of a competitor's bike. You may not agree with me on this point -- and that's fine. But I, for one, only use an 11-speed cassette because I'm forced to because virtually all of the rear derailleurs that I'm interested in, use them. For example, if you need multiple shift points (handlebars and aerobars) you'll have to use an electronic drivetrain and all of their rear derailleurs are 11-speed.
4 - Higher maintenance
Yet again, this comes back to the chainline problems demonstrated in the video. Until you fix the chainline problem -- that is, until you properly center the chainring to the cassette -- you cannot blame the 1x for higher maintenance. After many thousands of miles, I've seen zero indication of increased wear on my chain, cassette, rear derailleur or chainring.
5 - More frequent chain-drop from chainring
The video claimed that dried mud on the wide teeth of a 1x chainring caused the chain to come off the 1x chainring more frequently than a 2x setup. I'll take the author's word for this problem because I have no experience with it. I'm not exposing my road bike to the kinds of harsh conditions that the author exposes his bikes to and I'm using a much larger 50t chainring. Yet it seems that the faulty chainline in the author's bikes may play a mitigating factor here. If the incidence of dropped chains correlates to his 1x chainrings not being properly centered to his cassettes, then the faulty chainline may bear a large part of the blame -- not the wide teeth of the 1x chainring.
My road bike has a composite carbon frame so dropping a chain can be extra serious. I've seen lots and lots of composite bikes with severe damage to the bottom bracket shell when a chain dropped past the inner chainring on a 2x setup and began to cut through the carbon before the rider stopped trying to pedal. When I used a 2x drivetrain with my frame, I always made sure to protect the frame with a chain catcher. With my 1x setup, there has been no need for one. So, if you are not exposing your bike to mud and other hazards, a proper 1x setup should have far less risk of dropping a chain.
Plus, these new 1x chainrings are still a work in progress. As I understand it, SRAM made design changes to the teeth of their X-Sync chainrings last year. I'm using one of the original ones on my bike and I haven't had a chance to see one of the new ones yet and therefore don't know what differences were made. Perhaps SRAM has improved theirs so this isn't an issue any longer. I don't know. But there is still on-going work in this area and updated products are coming to market.
Summary
------------------------------------
Because the 1x chainring of some of the bikes in this video appeared to be offset from the centerline of the cassette, the chainline (or driveline) was faulty. For this reason alone, many of the conclusions drawn by the author were premature, if not incorrect. How should you configure the chainline for a 1x drivetrain? Intuition would lead most of us bike mechanics to locate the chainring dead-center to the centerline of the cassette. In this case, the offset of cross-chaining would be identical whether you chose the smallest gear or the largest gear. However, SRAM (with which I'm most familiar), advises favoring the outside a little. So I set my chainring a little over 1 mm to the outside of the driveline. This means the cross-chaining offset is a little less when I'm shifted into my smallest (fastest) gear vs my largest (slowest) gear. This seems to work fine for me. And, as I mentioned above, I've has zero problem with using my largest gear -- even when back-pedaling.
Seriously you had this much time to write this..... are you sure you don't have invested interest ........
just ride your bike.
I just read this comment and paid no more attention to the video. My expectations were blown.
D.Eldon Great piece, I just picked up my bike after a Scram Apex 42T installation and love it so far
D.Eldon Thanks for the comment. I’m very interested in knowing your road setup. Could you share it with us?
Eddy Merckx crushed everyone on a 2 x 5.
Whatever you have, enjoy it, ride it, love it, and forget all the BS marketing hype.
Yeah and the other riders all had 2 x 5. Try racing 2 x 5 today against other riders using 2 x 11 and let me know how that goes
@@dougantelman2369 hers decades later on latest tech ..still super hard to beat him ua-cam.com/video/bs8NJTotUbI/v-deo.html
@@dougantelman2369 about as well as using a single chainring went for Aqua Blue lololol
Those drivetrains last forever.... This is why they change them, more $$$, less durable.
@@dougantelman2369 Are you competing at Tour de France Doug 'Cause most of us don' t, and i don't care what the industry would like me to buy. I have a vintage 2x6 italian roadie, it's so fast and nimble it's scary. Rides like a dream. But you go ahead and race on your carbon taiwanese bike, son. Whatever makes you happy!
I'm not a serious mtb rider, but my 1x11 gears have the perfect range for me. I hate dealing with a front derailleur
I've just got a SRAM SX eagle 12-1 group set and I love it, so much easier 👍
If you're not serious and have little experience, how do you know what the perfect range is??
medal for comment to normie x , saying things just becouse hear lot of kids saying same , and going with bike to shop after milk is defo not a good idea to deal with front derailleur!
@@rochester212 Well I can go up hills and downhills without feeling like I need to shift anymore.
The small sprocket is good for rolling over trees too
@@rochester212 Just got my new bike with sram nx 1x12, i would say range is the same as 3x9, maybe top speed is little bit lower, but 1x12 is so much easier, you dont have to think about chainline, dont need front shifter, all you need is 2 options: up or down.
He's right about the range..
I love that feeling of dropping a front cog on a sharp, quick hill...
but what I don't love is when you get a chain drop going to the bottom chainring on a short climb fweeeeeeeeeeeeee, pedaling to nowhere haha.
@@mrvwbug4423 never happened with my 2x10
the feeling of applying brute force with the chain on the carbon fiber frame
@@rodrigofajardo630 I know what you mean. Dropped twice on mine and damaged my frame. Are you riding a 1 or 2x?
@@mrvwbug4423 I've only ever had it on a decent.
Thanks for sharing your opinion and experience!
I would say that there is a lot of logic in your words. 1x could fit in some circumstances but is definitely not what they say it is.
On my trail and on my road bike I use 2x10 and from my point of view and experience I think 2x10 is the most balanced gear type - not so expensive, very reliable (chain drop, chain and cassette wearing, etc.) , enough gear ratios for speed and for climbs. Another very useful thing of the front derailleur is that it can put your chain back on the front chain ring if it drops off, just by pushing your left shifter.
For sure all these different standards have one goal - the profit of the industry. Some new ideas and technologies are of great benefit for the users, but most of the time is just marketing.
I don't know about you guys, but I pedal my bike forward.
Dave Thorp *oh wtf why you do that bro we all pedal backwards you go faster*
I actaully do pedal backwards, when doing DH to get my pedals in the correct position if i dont want to lay down any extra power :)
when I need to get the pedals in the correct position to balance in steep uphills.
I've had this screw me on steep technical climbs a few times when I've had to ratchet or clear a pedal and going forward wasn't a choice
You definitely got sold on the 1x fad.
The industry is laughing at us. As a civil Engineer I can tell you that chains are designed to transfer direct stresses from one point to another, in other words to apply power from a given prime source to a receptor, they wear badly when lateral stresses are applied and yet that is exactly what the "1" by systems do. The industry knows that, of course, but that ensures that it makes more money out of the customer. Wear on the reduced elements increases proportionately. As a consequence, the cassette will require more frequent replacement than a system incorporating a triple or double chainring. So will the chainring. The triple and double chainring systems are designed for a purpose and that purpose has not been diminished in imperative by Bike Industry "fashions". Be clear......ultimately the single chainring is an expensive experiment. This chap here is quite right in his analysis and if riders do not like his perspective...for their own reasons...that simply does not obfuscate the basic laws of engineering.
I agree. It is all marketing to maintain or increase profits. Innovate or die is the phrase that comes to mind. In this case innovation does not always equal better. That being said I do find that my new mountain bikes 1 x 12 Sram Eagle system has the big advantage to me in that I no longer have chain slap against the rear chain on a fast bouncy decent, chain suck, failure of the chain to shift to the lowest chainring when starting a climb, or drop the chain off the small chainring when making a big downshift from the large chainring at the start of a steep climb(happens quite a bit even with the front derailleur properly adjusted). Also I have never experienced a chain drop-down from backpedaling. In addition it is great to have the dropper post lever mounted where the front chainring lever used to be. But I do miss the lower gearing on really steep climbs in terms of cadence that a 3x system provides. However, I will stick with the 3x system on my road bikes as I don’t see any positives to switching to the 1x system, only negatives in terms of cadence, friction, and wear and tear.
They both have advantages i cant understand your argument that its an industry conspiracy.
Any fixed gear/single speed rider knows that from experience and when they try to speak out .. Nothing. Very close minds. The derailleur itself is huge loss because of the few sweeps that chain does around it.
I agree with Bob. 2x and 3x is nice as it allows you to help avoid crosschaining, and has more of a selection for gear ranges. But 1x is also nice because you only have one shifter to worry about, and can use a southpaw lever where the front shifter was for the dropper seatpost. That is one of the main reasons why I'm switching to 1x on my mountain bike.
hi: is 2x10 best?
thx
It is funny that every new trend (I won't call them innovations) is sold as a replacement, not as a supplement, to all that is currently sold. The manufacturers have to legitimize your purchase of parts you don't probably need by convincing you that you are falling out of fashion and losing time if you don't buy the new stuff. Are 1x setups better? For some riders and situations they absolutely are. Are 2x and even 3x setups better for some riders? Absolutely they are. We need to stop trying to buy ourselves into being faster or more fit and try to do it through riding what we have.
Michael Wheeler I bought a clearance priced chainring and removed parts. Not really that arduous of a process impressed on me by the big evil industry.
1x setups are actually still pretty infant, at least on the side of the large manufacturers. The smaller ones satisfied an existing demand with narrow/wide chainrings, conversion kits and what not. They didn't push anything, they just saw a demand for something that was not too readily available. And so, just now are Shimano and Sram catching up with this trend. There's a huge demand for 1x setups and nobody is pushing it. Manufacturers are struggling to keep up.
27,5 and 29 wheels have overthrown 26" wheels. Many see it as a conspiracy of manufacturers. But consider the fact that all three sizes have been available for several years. It's just that sales of one of the sizes were not justifying continued investments. That's why most brands don't have high-end 26" bikes. They just don't sell.
if you think of it, 26" wasn't established because it was the best possible solution, but because at the time it was the most common on mountain bikes. So all the research and development was made around a 26" wheel. It was a trend at the time and it took a long time to make a viable alternative. When the alternative was available, people spoke with their wallets.
thats it...I agree.
Limited; Romanticizing a new thing is pushing for sales. dropping production of something that has slowed in sales is creating market. notice how the two are linked. Even I would not stock 26" bikes right now because there is too much hype for the bigger wheels. I'm sure that Nino would beat me senseless on a three-by, 26r. A wise man once said " Skip the hype, ride the bike..."
There is a large population of MTB riders who ride purely for fun and not competitively. Many of us also ride highly technical trails that require mix of climbing and downhill, not to mention highly varied version of both. 1x and "lighter weight this" "less chain drop that" are all fine and dandy, but I'd rather get a wider range so I can climb more efficiently, and if the chain drops going DH (which is usually where it happens), it's not going to prevent me from going DH. 1x setups actually benefit you in way fewer situations than what manufacturers are trying to promote, and it's more of a fad fueled by ignorance and marketing than anything else.
Running an old 3x9 system I find changing gear second nature now. I have better gear ratio than most 1x systems and by not crossing the chain I never have issues with chain skipping or dropping. And the money saved by keeping the old school set up allowed me to buy a dropper post, new forks and saddle, and two sets of tubeless tyres.
You're clever. I continue using my 26" mtn bike, bought XT
3x9 transmission very cheap and I’m not led by marketers.
I use a 3×8 gear and I'm happy with that.. and I just saw that the cost of SRAM Eagle is even more than the MTB I own 🤣🤣
I run a 3x10, they called me a madman. I left them to eat dust 😂😂
Jeffu- Sama that’s what I’m gonna try next week. Currently I have 3x7, but I have a 10-46T cassette in mail! I was thinking about going 2x10, but after reading you comment, I think I’ll give a good try to 3x10!
I also ride 3x10, (Deore), and my bicycle is like working horse (meaning that I put trailer for my kid sometimes, paniers on longer trips, lots of extra weight) and it is able to do all the climbs etc
in ten years, there will be a new revolution: 2x and 3X. The advertising will have all the points made in this video and tout how the 2X is so much better and efficient than the 1X. You watch.
We will be told that we will need to ditch the 1x for the new 2X
and then,
what was old is new again,
probably keep on running
my 3x as I am only a hobbyist
mountain biker
Of course there will. We all used to ride 1x way back in the day ffs, but then people invented the 2x and 3x because it was an improvement! More gears gave you more options, smaller "jumps" between gears etc. That didn't suddenly just stop being the case. It's quite clearly a marketing push and nothing else.
And they will probably promote smaller wheels to use with them. To bad my components are wearing out by now so I followed the industry and ordered a 29 inch with 1x12, although I am not convinced at all it is a upgrade, and less so by watching these kind of video's that agree with my theories.
Don't forget 26", which comeback will probably be marketed as "most fun and exciting MTB ride ever" . Which for the most part it is.
I think you have some good points and you are right that the new fancy stuff always seems to cost more for minimal (or no) performance gains. I consider my small chainring my 1x because where I live (mountains) you generally only need your big ring on the downhill! You can really see the mountain biking industry in the last 10 years has so many different standards/sizes for everything from drive trains to axles to wheels to suspension. It is great to have choices but sometimes it is a bit much.
Stay truthful and honest my friend! Excellent work! Your ligic is SOLID. 👍🏻
Great video! I just started riding this summer and got a mid-level XC bike with 3x and as a newbie I of course wondered why all of these 1x was thought of as the best. Mainly actually because of some of your problems - mainly 3 and 4 (and now two other things to think of). I have been using all gears in the 3x (although seldom the smallest one), and since I'm still quite physically unfit (fat) I'll keep it that way until I really have to upgrade or buy a new bike in which case I think a 2x will be the best for me. Also - as a new subscriber, thanks for many other great videos!
Btw, I love your channel. Best content- esp the bike mechanic stuff. Please do more bike repair tutorials and riding tutorials ! Incorporate e- mtbs too, perfection!!
thx ShaiBike, I didn't change down because I didn't see how 1by could offer the range i want. My MTB is for all terrains + fun commute days. Sticking to 2by. I feel like left behind when new bikes are at the park / lights, in their pretty group sets, but having the range makes all the difference day after day. AND I never need to change setup for the next event. lLve the channel. Go Poland, great decade for pro racing!
100!
Thanks for these post!
Everytime I visit my local bike shop, I usually seem to know more than the guys that run the small shops and the big industrial shops/bike stores always try to talk over my head and tell me why my bicycle is obsolete,..
I do my own research and find that a lot of those guys that wear fancy hats in almost all those major places with all the latest gear are ONLY interested in selling me a bill of goods!
THANKS!
I still ride a 26" 9 speed triple....
I bought one like 2 days ago ROFL. I love it :D
Me too and probably never switch to 1x or 2x 🤣🤣🤣
I still ride my 26" 3x8 bike too but I also 29er 1x10. They are so different especially with much wider handle bars but my 29er is lighter, faster and rolls over obstacles much easier. Wheel size matters in more speed and rolling over obstacles. Sure my 29er has a better fork but still.
I ride rigid 26 with 3x7, but actually, only the biggest front chainring works. That bike kicked asses in local XC and marathon races against 26 full suspension bikes 3x9 back in the days
I still ride my 3x7 GT RTS (1995). Still works great for me, so I just keep it.
for riding technical trails I often found that trying to change the front chain ring gears fast resulted in chain drops or chain jams. I'm testing the 1x drive train now and so far it seems better for me. Also, I never run out of low end or top end speed on those kind of trails with steep uphills and technical downhills.
Chris Krajewski yeah 1x is just better, why would they otherwise not make a beeter 2x and are pros using it ;)
TOTALLY AGREE! I had a 1x setup and had to switch from 32x42 to 26x42 for a nice easy low gear and I'd spin out at around 19-20 mph max.
Do you think that maybe havung a 38t round/ oval could help with that?
As a clydesdale size rider these points are even more extreme for me. I'll be sticking to my 2x. Thanks for the honest video.
Any recommendations for a 6 ' 7" struggling to find a reasonably prized Clydesdale type MTB?
I can never think of a time I’ve had to back peddle several revolutions, also do your front chain rings have the correct offset?
Thank you. Fantastic film and I do agree with you. I have always felt multiple chain rings on the front is better, like you say for the bigger range of gears. Another problem with x1 is big steps between gear ratios, but that will happen as you have less gears!!
Most riders go 1x as it's what the manufacturers fit them and also it's fashionable. I think another reason riders like 1x is that a huge amount of then don't know how to setup and adjust front derailleurs.
Very well balanced arguments! Well worth the watch-time. Even though I personally still prefer 1-by and hadn't had that much issues. Probably because i prefere more technical, and thus slower decends - combined with rather pushing/carrying the bike on steeper/more technical ascends.
Have been eyeing the 1x11 bikes and admiring the industry effort to put such a system together as a wide spread standard. Previously, I road a 1x1 mtn bike and really appreciated the simplicity. Obviously this is very different than 1x11 but not having a front derailleur lends to just more focus on the peddling. I have also spend a great deal of time on 2x10, 3x10, and 2x11. For mountain and road bikes, my vote is the 2x. With 2x the range for high and low can be better grouped with decent chain lines, and more often than not the front chain ring will stay in one ring most often. But this does depend on the cassette group you have and where you ride. Where I live, it is modestly hilly. Therefore my lower range gets the most use. So again a clean chain line is important. I believe most people will not bother with refining these details of their bike and just go with the stock setup. And this is maybe why 1x11 -etc. had gained popularity, intending to try to keep the drive train simple for the average rider.
Having an extreme chain line with questionable low gears seems less appealing.
Additionally, when I look at the back wheel with all that metal and think shouldn't the rear wheel be lighter.. I mean this is where all the power is being pushed to and should not be bogged down with all these monster sprockets.. The weight comparison has got to be more for the same gear ratios. Maybe someone should do a video on that.. Personally, I like to keep the bike light. With 2x all those cassette sprockets can be smaller, with only the one additional chain ring on the crank. ( maybe with the extra shifter and front derailleur it all evens out, but would be fun to reveal)
One thing that is appealing for 1x is the amount of torque and leverage when using a smaller chain ring with the bigger cassette rings.. For off-road this ideal especially with the lower range.
Maybe being a little more old school, I am more biased.. I am sure that at some point my 2x drive trains will be toasted, and if 1x is still a thing I will be joining the club but only as a last resort.
Everyone should try 2x11 and 1x11 before buying a new bike, I find it more a personal preference than anything else. I have the cheapest SRAM NX 1x11 system and it works great for me on my hardtail. No backpedalling problems and downhill speed is a non-issue since when you're going 40kph+ you're not going to pedal anyway since it's too bumpy and pedal strikes can occur.
I agree that the components wear faster and it could be an issue on some more high-end groupsets which tend to wear faster anyway and are more expensive to replace all the time.
Anyway, try both and see which you prefer.
You proved some of my suspitions of 1x's - Subscribed!!
Excellent video showing a few unknown problems at least to me, I never knew of the chain misalignment associated with the single and sure don't like the idea of the chain being jammed-- I have a 2016 Focus Raven max SL with XTR double and I wanted the double for better gear selection
You know as with almost anything there is an opposite reaction to a reaction meaning possibly solve one problem and create another---
Again great vid
Just found your videos today! I have watched this and another great clear and honest reviews!
Thanks for this video. Great points. I was feeling bad that I was still on 2x10 system. I thought maybe I was missing out on something. And I too have been riding for 20+ years. I think I'll stay with 2x and just fine tune my drivetrain better.
Great to see someone talking sense and not being blinded by new tech that might not be all its hyped up to be..well done
He don't use the sram crank, that's the real problem. Also thats bike don't be designen for 1x
@@hansvelazquez3119 always excuses...i think if they point on your face bird poo ...you still ignore that truth ...there is always those people out there . LOL
For the only 1by system is for a commuter where your gear range needs are narrow (specially for a near flat route) so even a 1x5 should be more than enough.
Say 48x14-24.
I got my first 1×11 set up 2 years ago on a Stumpjumper and am going to change it out to 2×10. My only two issues are that I need a wider gear range and that the parts wear out to quickly for my taste. Enjoyed the video.
What cassette and chainring ratio did you have?
I'm currently on a 2x9 and considering a 1x11 11-46 cassette with a 46 up front.
Lack of gears is the killer. When I bought a Mach4, I could not afford the 2x build kit ($1200 more than the base model). So I'm living with a 1x11. The lowest gear is barely adequate, and the highest gear SUCKS, I can't goose it on those fast downhills.
I have 511% range on my 1x11.. My lowest is perfect, my highest is perfect.
Ed, I found I, too, lost range when I went with a 1x10. Not only that, but I’d have to run through all 10 gears to get from high to low, instead of just dropping into my smaller chainring. I went back to 2x10, because wanted the extended range.
I bought Merida one twenty and realised quickly I wasn’t getting the speed I wanted in the lowest gear. Found I ran out of gears so quick. So I change from the 32 round chainring to a 36 oval. Gives me about 3 more gears to drop and I get the speed I want. Love the bike now. I found before changing to the oval I was only using 5 gears out of 12 now am using 8 or 9 out of 12 now.
I think there is entirely too much hype surrounding the latest greatest bicycle stuff. Truth of the matter is unless you are physically capable of placing in the top 10 in just about any race consistently, then you are just spending money to spend money. Chris Froome for example would still kick your ass on a 200 dollar 3x7 Tourney groupset bike from Walmart if he didn't explode the bottom bracket out of it. People are always so concerned about the latest greatest lightest stuff...you want lighter? Put down the cake and pedal more. You want faster? Train harder. The thing that makes the most difference on a bicycle is the legs pushing on the pedals.If I get dropped, it has nothing to do with what bike I am on, it all has to do with ME and that is free to upgrade...with work and effort. Some of the fastest people I know are riding steel bikes from the 70's-90's they pulled out of scrap piles and restored.
well said.
Wise comment, cheers!
Best comment
Most gains are noticed at 20 mph. Not exactly difficult to hold and see those gains
Dam straight
Thanks for sharing your findings. Maybe some of the points also need to be distiguished as to going to a 1x standard range (say up to 36t) or 1x wide range (anything over 36t ie 40 - 50t), as the wide range setup creates it's own additional problems over sticking with standard cassettes, chainline/chainangle, lower RG pulley etc
May I add a few of my findings?
a) - / + Chainline
The chainline in the low gears on bikes that were not specifically made to be compatible with wide range 1x drivetrains is horrible and will cause problems like noise due to chain angle and dropping the chain when backpedalling. HOWEVER, there are manufacturers that have addressed this issue and have adjusted their current frame designs to suit 1x drivetrains. I believe Cannondale have done this with their asymetric rear end which is why your CD is working quite well. LITEVILLE have also developed their free to all manufacturers EVO6 rear dropout standard (hopefully more will pick it up) which is based on BOOST but adjusts the chainline to work better with 1x drivetrains.
b) - dirt and grit on the front ring
Dirt and grit on a wide narrow ring causes horrible grinding noises and acceplerated chain and ring wear due to the tighter fit. This causes rings to wear quicker, and in winter and makes riding less enjoyable.
c) + cleaning
Cleaning the front ring from grit and dirt is a reason why I love 1x drivetrain. it is so simple to engage the RD (SRAM), pop the chain off and clean the front ring, this was always a pain with 2x and 3x drivetrains.
d) - / + range
Of course with a 1x drivetrian you lose range. For some it is a problem for some it is not, everyone needs to decide for themselves. I personally am looking forward to trying 1x12 with larger range. The issue I see though, and again this needs to be decided individually, is how far the derailleur pulley drops down. It amost touches the rim!
e) -/+ Clutch
Many people don't realise the clutch mechanism wears and at some point the clutch actually no longer serves it's purpose without an adjustment of the friction it provides. It happened to me. X01 drivetrain worked a treat until 6 months down the track: race run after having no problems in training. Chain dropped off. I later learned my clutch had worn and needed adjusting to work again. A 1x drivetrain without a working clutch will drop chains.
a) - bearing wear cassette
The inner bearings of freewheelbody are usually made to withstand the torque from the cassette with a standard cassette. Many freewheelbodies are not yet adapted to the higher torque that wide range cassettes provide and you'll just distroy the internals in a quick time. Some manufacturers have upgrade kits available so that you don't distroy the internals. Just something to bear in mind many people would overlook when upgrading to 1x.
Cheers!
With the 1x12 with range of 10 to 50 teeth there is still a range problem becouse the gap between the gears is very big, so you still have to compromise for these.
What you say as the last point is plain wrong I think, since your max speed is much lower with a 1x groupset, the maximum power put on the cassette is also lower (no the power you produce, but the mechanical power brought over by the chain), so actually the new cassettes are better for the freehub (if used as 1x setup as intended), but even if not so, the Tork a amateur can produce is still nothing in comparison with a pro, so the bike will probably handle it well.
To get a good chain line when upgrading you should also look at the offset in the front, to get it aligned nicely, or as nice as you can get for the reasons mentioned in this video.
You make a lot of great points, thanks for making this video. I was considering converting my 2X10 but had a lot of the same concerns you have pointed out here. I think I'll stay with what I have. Thanks
I bet in less than 5 years all bikes will be 2x 😀😀, i hope it's sooner because i have 2 cross country bikes and would love to buy a trail bike for local tracks and i won't be buying a 1x ! I've been concerned about 1x chainline for sometime now so need to find someone who does a good 2x10 trail bike 😎😎
Agree entirely with you. I've just had my first experience with 1x drivetrain yesterday and today, and I can safely say that I'm left feeling underwhelmed! Brand new bike with new XO1, I was really looking forward to trying this new drivetrain. Several times I was looking for higher gears, and on quick descent to ascent sections, I couldn't change gear quick enough; a problem I never used to have with my 2x drivetrain. Could be a matter of getting used to the new drivetrain, time will tell. Well done for sharing this vid with us all.
Thanks for the comment! 🙂
But isn't 3 by then even better then a 2 by? 🤔
For cyclocross and gravel racing i had way more dropped chains with 2x. In fact most CX racers used a chain keeper to prevent chain drops, which could happen on a front ring downshift or just when coasting over rough terrain.
Completely agree used to race a 2x for cx and I would drop almost every race. Completely sucked
Thanks for this great review. The biking industry is trying to get us to become "use and throw away" consumers, which, in some ways, goes against the grain and sprite of free, ecological, nature loving and fun MT Biking. I really enjoyed this review. You could do a new reviews on the many new BB standards and the "boost" hub spacing etc.... please.
I totally agree with your arguments. Last year I needed to get a new AM MTB and found most bikes having either this big 1× nonsens or at least 2× . I'm pretty sure in a couple of years when most of us are annoyed by this 1× hype, the bike industry will come with something totally new and revolutinary: Brand new hot 3×13 drivetrain. For my part, luckily I got one of the rare 3×11 equipped Bikes (Centurion Numinis 2000.27 2016) with Shimano Deore-XT (M8000 series). Year, this thing really rocks as well on the steepest uphills as on fast trails or downhills. It has simply none of the disadvantages you mentionned. XT 3×11 is still available with a FC-M8000-3 crankset.
This is one of those videos that I'm so glad somebody came forward to point out the pros and cons. My one by 11 drivetrain on my Roscoe 8 came stock with quite a small sprocket. I picked up an oval 34 tooth sprocket in gold looks great performs quite well. So that's what I did to attempt* to remedy some of the same complaints I have about one by drivetrains. If someone was looking to put a larger one on I wouldn't go much larger than that, he clearances were pretty close. The oval does have a different riding characteristic and helps improve hill climbs but I literally have all the issues you pointed out in this video! LOL the one that drives me the most crazy is not having crisp shifts all the way up and down through all 11 gears. I brought it into the shop and they helped me adjust it pretty well last year but now it's going back out of adjustment. I started throwing at it the other day got a little bit better but man I wish it was more improved. Feeling like the overall design should should have stayed 1 by 10. You made some excellent points very well outlined, Thanks so much for sharing!!
I support your bang for the buck philosophy. People who ride a lot all see this except for the weekend warriors.
Tested 1x11 for about 4 months now (27.5 Enduro bike with 32t to 11-42) and I have to say it works great for me. Lowest gear is more than enough for the climbs I do. I agree with you that you could spin out on in the highest gear but this only happens to me on the road sometimes. On the trail I have none such issues because if I go faster then this gear would allow me I wouldn't want to pedal or wouldn't be able to cause of the terrain. My bike came with 3x10 and I had serious chain drop problems in the front nearly every second ride. Now they are gone with a little top guide. Also I found myself like never using the 40t chainring especially off road. So long speech short: 1x11 works really well for me on Enduro, freeride but I see that in other categories where your cadence and pedaling skills are more important 2x10 or 2x11 would be better. Cheers.
Good video about the drawbacks to a 1x setup. I love my 1x on my mountain bike and I'm never going back. I have a really neat scar from the chainring trying to saw off my leg in a small crash when I slipped a pedal on my 3x. On my road bike with a 2x I'm happy to leave it as it is.
I’m new to high end bikes and I just purchased a used top brand with a 3 by 8 drive train. I LOVE using the large chain ring for speed and a particular cadence. I no longer feel like I am missing out on some sort of new riding dynamic but not favoring 1 by drivetrains. I’m keeping my new (old) bike forever! Great video and very good explanations! I’m going to subscribe to your chanel!
Excellent analysis! Thank you!
I love 26 inch tires. Theyre so damn responsive and reactive for city. How tall are you? That seat would need a step to get. Maybe I'm short. I dont know. I'm 5' 11
I went from a 3x8 to a 1x10 simply because I got wider tires 2.4 and the front mech would rub on rear tire the other deciding factor was I was always sat in the middle chainring on the 3x so making that choice was good for me and absolutely love my 1x setup the cockpit looks so much more to tidy without so much clutter and having the front mech removed makes it easier to clean round that area which was always tricky with the 3x
really like your channel. very honest and reasonable information. keep the videos coming! greetz from austria!
I ride enduro 2x10 drivetrain, love it. Had 1x10 in the past, 2x10 preferred.
#1 - gear skip on backpedal - good demonstration, but in 3 years of riding 1x10, I've never had it happen.
#2 - power loss - Sure there's a bit of power loss in the chain line, but there is power loss in a 2x or 3x setup too, just to a smaller degree. So it's not like you're NOT losing power with a 2x or 3x, so it's a matter of degree...probably fractions to single digits of watts. How much power is the extra weight of a 2x setup costing you on the same climb?
#3 - Lack of gears. Absolutely fewer gears. But for most people on most trails most of the time, they don't use the full range anyway. So do you want a bike that's optimized for 95% of your riding? Or add weight, cost, and complexity just to pick up that extra 5%? But your point about racing is spot on - if you're a competitive race, you might use the extra gears.
#4 - Maintenance - any additional maintenance induced be 1x would, IMO, be more than offset by eliminating maintenance on the front derailleur and its associated components.
#5 - chain drop - again, it just doesn't happen for most people (more than on a 2x or 3x) with a proper setup.
I agree with Martin - great video with good demonstrations and kudos for selecting a range of bikes. But your "big problems" are not "real world problems" and don't outweigh the "real world advantages" of 1x for most people.
What would you say the real world advantages of a 1x are for most people?
gmatochautube wow so you bought a one by bike and are trying like hell to justify it. I hope you love whatever you ride, but don't try to sell it so hard. That lack of range is real. No reason to deny it.
And the cost savings is not so great when you look at the price to replace an 11 speed cassette, and it will need to be changed more often because of the dreadful chain-line, ditto on the derailleur.
One of the main advantages (at least for me) is the reduced weight by removing my front derailleur, and a chainring. This ,of course, is a preference. You can offset the added weight of a 2X or 3X system by the wider gear ratio. However, that means more maintenance with the 2X or 3X system (derailleur, cables, housing, and more chainrings to take care of and replace when worn). 1X doesn't give you the same amount of gear ratios but to me I don't need a wide range of gear ratios. However, in 2X and 3X systems you ratios overlapping so the difference isn't as big as one imagines. I would go for a 2X system if I'm racing to get some good speed from a larger chainring, which I wouldn't use when commuting around the city. If you think of converting your bike to a 1X system make sure you set it up properly. Key factor (for me) was the chain alignment, with 11 and 12 speed cassettes because they cause the chain to be in an awkward position (i.e. not being straight in the drivetrain) making it susceptible to dropping.
In summary: reduced weight, and less parts to maintain/fix/replace :)
I completely agree with you! @gmatochautube Well said.
Thanks for creating and uploading another informative video. I bike in urban Bangkok and nearly all my bikes I've upgraded to alloy 1x chain rings with 52t from iron 48t. Not many serious hills in flat-as-a-pancake Bangkok!
Thank you so much for your review. I am a 61 year old 'Touring' bike rider and was being tempted by all the hype etc to swap to a 1 x system, but having gone from a 9 speed 3x by taking off the 42T front chainring and just using 32 /22 at the front and a 11-42 cassette my knees have found great happiness.
I should also add that recently I made it up Bealach Na Ba fully loaded with this gear set up, although it did take some time!!.
Thanks again
Mike UK
Cross-chaining losses on your biggest cog are somewhat (largely) ameliorated by the fact that bigger gears are more efficienct than smaller gear combos. But there are still losses. For example, 53-28 vs 39-21...similar gear ratio, bigger gears in for the former but it's cross-chained. In that case you're talking about ~7.75 watts of friction vs ~7 watts of friction. So it's definitely a measurable difference but probably not meaningful to most. Definitely the frictional loss would measure in the milliwatts in most cross-chain scenarios, at least vs the realistic alternative which isn't perfectly aligned either.
I should add that the real cross-chain concern in 1x setups is not on the bigger cog because, again, bigger gears are more efficient & that ameliorates the cross-chain inefficiency to some extent. BUT if you pick a chain line that cross-chains on your smallest cog you have some real inefficiency when you're in the 11. (again, smaller gear, less efficient) For example, 53-15 vs 39-11...pretty much same gear ratio but the 53-15 combo generates something like 7 watts of frictional loss while the 39-11 combo generates closer to 10 watts. So if you pick a chainline to optimize your largest cog cross-chain...you'll get dropped in the flats. You're much better off picking a chainline to optimize your 11 cog or closer to the 11 clog at least.
Where are you getting your 7vs10W figures. Please give a link to the data. thanks
How do you figure that 3 watts is going to get you dropped in the flats? Riding on the hoods at 20-25 MPH means you're expending 200-400 watts. So that's about .75 to 1.5 percent-not enough to matter in any practical sense, unless you're a pro racing for several hours or days.
See the Friction Facts site mentioned above.
I went with 1x because I am in the big ring all the time. Even though rear cassette is 12-25 I am still able to climb hills with minimal effort. I don't mind 2x though. 3x seems to be a bit redundant with gear ratios unless the bike is really heavy.
Same here. Always ride on the big ring. I almost never shift to the smaller one. So I don’t miss not having it and love the simplicity and aesthetics of the 1x.
Thanks for your videos, very informative and appreciated. Love your technical analysis of components agree about 1x11,10 it still seems to need serious tweaking. Much appreciated keep em coming.
Chain dropping on back pedalling usually has a lot do with chain stay length, its also worth considering chainline and whether it needs a spacer to adjust. Generally not a problem as the most you need to back pedal is 3/4 of a turn.
There are more than 4 problems with 1x anything:
1. chain does not like to travel by side/diagonaly, and when it goes it wears teeths by side, wears itself by uneven load on pins of chain, front ring gear is more loaded on left side in touching point of chain for low gears and more loaded on right side on higher gears ( so more powerloss, noise and wear of components)
2. to ensure high range of gear ratios, rear derailleur is more loaded by chain tension on lower gears so here is more powerloss, noise and wear( pulley of derailleur are more loaded and in some cases upper pulley can touch teeths of first gear)( my 1995. dura ace metal pulley lasts 60000 km)
3. gear rings will live longer if for same conditions are used ring gears with more teehts( for ex: 22/18 has same gear ratio as 32/26 so if is not to much chain diagonal is better to use 32/26 than 22/18, for 2/3x systems
4. if chain falls from front gear ring , it has to be set by hands( no front derailleur)
5. there is only 1 gear ring for same gear ratios/speed so some gear rings will be worn faster because are more in use ( for 3x 8/9/.. rings can be combinated for same ratio)
Summary : manufacturers offer worse option that will last shorter and they will earn more money ( on naive people)
Makan Tahi How many years have you used a single chain ring? I can tell you for the vast majority of people they run just fine. Been running mine for years without any of these problems.
when i was in competition i drove ultegra on front 39/53 and 21/12 ,8 speed on rear, and because ratios i used mostli 39 and 21/19/17/16, and that front 39 lived for 3 years max,( 50000km) chain was regularly oiled, cleaned and changed every 2000 km (hg90), on every chain change 39 ring was rotated for 1 hole on crank, now i have same 39/53 and on rear bigger rings: 26/22/ 18/17/16/15/14/13 and now i mostly use 53-18/17 and 53 rings has little signs of wear after more than 10 years.
i works in bike repair shop and i noticed that even on more expensive bikes, owners do not care about chain/ring lubrication, cleaning and wear
That backpedaling and chain dropping would be HUGE for me offroad. I did that ALL the time. The only relevant argument for 1-by seems to be that it's easier to shift. Really? Who struggles with shifting? Show me one person. I would counter it by having to gearshift LESS if you have 2 or 3 front chainrings. Since you can drop the chain down by one on the front chainring instead of shifting with rear derailleur 5 times. 1 press vs 5, which is easier?
Companies have to make stuff incompatible and poor quality. Otherwise no one would buy anything. If bikes lasted for 20 years, how long b4 a company has sold all the bikes possible? And theres 20+ companies making bikes, right? Would it take a year? 2 years? To make a billion or so bikes. They make stuff incompatible so you would be inclined to upgrade. And make it look like it's different. Just different enough. I don't trust anyone who starts a sentence with "We have all this new technology and therefor...". Metal is metal, carbon is carbon. The bike has looked the same pretty much since 1885. Quick release was invented in 1927!
Ooh, aerodynamics of bike was increased by 2% compared to last generation. And the bike is at most 20% of the drag factor. so 2% of 20% = ....0.4%? Wow, much impressed, such innovation!
Is it easier to move chain 1 step up or down on the front ring (1 button press)
OR
hold and press gearshifter til you find the right gear, going up or down approx. 5 gears in the rear? What is that? Pumping shiftlever twice? And counting how many shifts that was?
I would choose option number one.
Obviously you don't go over rough terrain. With 1X system, it allows you to run a narrow wide, and a chain guide which great stops chain drops. With 2X and 3X you can't do this, and the front mech is so inefficient at shifting as you have to back of the power a little to change.
Your logic is ridiculous. Penicillin was discovered in 1928 and do you think we still use the same exact drug today? No! The basis is the same but over the years it has been improved. The Ford model T was made in 1908. Do we still drive it or use the same technology today? No! The basis is the same but over the years it had been improved. more RESEARCH and DEVELOPMENT has concluded with today's cars being very safe and efficient. Therefore saying that the bike is the same is very ignorant of you. And if you start talking about a 2% increase compared to last generation, over 10 years that equals 20%. And that is a big difference. In the Olympics do you see the 100 metre time get broken by a whole second? No, every 10 years of so it is broken only by a little bit. Do you understand how ridiculous you sound.
Well, someones pissed off...Good.
You are comparing machines to humans with the Olympics stuff.
Are you still driving a Ford Model T? Are those for sell? Because quick releases are.
Do you understand how bacteria work? They mutate every 20 minutes or so. Of course the same penicillin wont work for long, same with antibiotics. So the medical field HAS TO create a better version, one that bacteria can't circumvent. A bike doesn't rust and fall to bits if theres no innovation.
2% of 20% is still 0.4%. So in your argument that would total 4% over 10 years. Bike manufacturers don't necessarily release new gens every year. Not with aero improvements.
Why do we still sit in the same position? Why aren't racing bikes more like recumbents? Or a bike where you sit like superman? Wouldn't that halve the aerodrag? Since we would be twice as low.
That's exactly how bicycle land speed records are set... in recumbents. They aren't allowed in the peloton by the UCI for other reasons, no-one would argue that recumbent bikes aren't aero dreamboats.
Thanks Friend, I had my reservation about trying a one bi drive train and know I know that I will not.
When I first saw the title of your vid I thought I was going to experience a bunch of BS. But you point out very legitimate issues that I had forgotten about through the years. All my interest has switched to mountain biking and I got rid of my high end road bike years ago. Additionally I don’t compete in races so a little additional friction is of little concern to me. I’m currently running a Sram Eagle GX 1x12 and love it. I have never had my chain jump off the chain ring and I have ridden in a lot of dirty muddy full day conditions while descending significant knar where the chain is bouncing around. I mainly trail ride and pedal myself up to the top of the hill/mountain for the aerobic conditioning and to avoid shuttle hassles. I also feel like I’ve earned the upcoming thrill ride down when I did the work getting to the top :) As such the gear range on the Eagle GX 1x12 is damn near perfect for my needs. Anything I can’t get up with my granny gear means it’s too steep anyway (or I need better conditioning) and I never need a lower gear than that provided while on the mountain. With that said there have been a few times in dirty conditions while ascending steep trails where I’ve had to ratchet back to avoid a pedal strike and my chain jumped gear resulting in me having to jump off my bike. Likewise while descending a steep road (to get to a trailhead) I do run out of low gear.
Thank You so much for the unbiased review, you have talked me out of spending bank on a 1x setup. I often wondered why other reviewers were so adamant that 1x systems were the best. I will be buying a 2x system.
Just go with single speed if everything has a problem.
Thank you dude for this video. I just bought specialized stumpjumper 2014 with 2x10 and was thinking to go straight to 1x drivetrain, but this video made to change my desition.
Thank you so much you opened my eyes! 😵😵😵 I was about to ditch my 3x system to get the 1x... not gonna happen now
I don't care what anyone says. I love my 1x setup so much more than the 2 and 3x I had before. There is no going back for me. I do ride with a lot of people that feel the same and many also disagree. To each their own.
I'm so happy to hear you bring this up. I recently bought a new full suspension bike and made sure it had 2x10 system. One thing I find which is never discussed is street riding, which I do a lot of, I use my lower ring about 30% of the time. This is significant. Basically the math does not work for me. 2x10 is better than 1x12. The wright savings aren't big enough(that huge 12 ring has to weigh a lot). The loss of the front gear mech means nothing to me(I like symmetry). And I love my cadence!
agreed, i think it also has to do with all the other clickers / accessories that can be bought. Seat Dropper, Suspension lockouts, Tyre blow canisters, e-power drives etc. I thought maybe adding hub gear system to a 1by would be only reason to change, then have 3 or 4 times 11 system
I agree entirely. Came to exactly the same conclusion in last few weeks as I am planning ratios for my road/gravel wanderer project. 24-43 by 11-28. Just got the 43 in the post this morning from Amazon.
Thank you for your chanel, so helpful for the rider to understand how things work on the bike, and in the marketing.
Thanks!! I knew the companies pushing that much the 1*10+ had to have a reason. Very useful info, I almost changed you made me save a lot of money!
1x8 is my gold for commuting, sram x4, cheap as chips! A cassette and chain is less than £20!
Post links please
Interesting analysis!
nice review, and a honest review (y)
i already compare 1x11 and 2x10 the result is more easy to climb with 2x10 than 1x10 like you said there's much loosing power when it hits the biggest cog at the steepest climb to many friction and the RD works to hard to keep the chain stay at the sprocket....
I enjoy your videos regardless of topic. And your accent is fun to listen to.
1x8 with 32 x 10-32 is sufficient...
"Pedal Dammit!!!"
lol I genuinely used that a while ago
Friction Facts lab has the power loss due to crosschain tested. I don't recall the details, but their results tell at 250W loading, averagely lubed chain, typical road bike chainstay length, going every sprocket away from the perfectly aligned position, additional 0.3W vanishes.
do you have a link?
www.friction-facts.com/
I would think that the friction would be non-linear but good to hear that it is quite low as I expected.
each sprocket 0.3w but, in a 50 big ring at 90 RPM means 75 sprockets/second, which timed 0.3 is 4.5W lost, which is not so quite low
so would be less on mountain bikes since chainstay tends to be longer.
Good points. I've noticed the speed problem on my 1 X 10 where it doesn't take much speed to run out of gears. I just recently noticed how the angle of the chain is really bad on the lower gears. Hadn't thought about additional wear, but makes sense. I have a 3 X 8 drive train on one of my bikes and the chain drops all the time on the front derailleur. I haven't been able to adjust it to work properly. So the 1 X wins there for me. Thanks for the video
To sort the chain line add chainring spacers to move the chainring into the centre of where your x2 or X3 was.
you have 4 problems for 1x but all your bike are 1x wtf?
He showed a bike that had a 3x drive train
@@nemezote I also assumed all those bikes were his...and wondered why he would have no front derailers on all his bikes. He doesn't really make it clear that those bike don't belong to him.
@@nemezote lol from the needlessly aggressive tone, I can tell that you need to get laid
Actually those are not "clients" bikes but the ones that he is/was riding. Shaibike has more then 4 bikes here and they are also 2x or 3x, just check other videos.
Great video. Well done. Finally ... somebody said it! 👍
I found your video and explanations very easy to comprehend! Thanks a lot!
Something I wish had emphasis, is that YOUR CHAINLINE can be adjusted with washers/spacers. If your m8 crank to chainring bolts aren't long enough to accommodate the distance you need, check for clearance issues and USE A NORMAL NUT AND BOLT!!
2x front seems like a happy medium.
Would be a waste for the left hand shifter to have just two shifts
It comes down to installing what makes you happy. I went from a Shimano 2x10 to a 1x10 using a sun race 11-42 cassette and an oval 32t chainring. I'm happy with the change and have no back pedaling issues, and feel that there are fewer parts on the bike to malfunction. I chose to spend money and I'm happy, what's not to love?
I agree that simplicity and finding what works best for an individual rider should be the goal. I commute on pavement, so an 11-speed 11-46 cassette paired with a 42-tooth chainring fits my needs.
I also don't know if this helps anyone else, but my auto insurance agent knows how much I ride (I work with her husband) so she was able to get an auto insurance discount for me.
Hi, I strongly agree with you SickBiker, for all the story, notably for the backpedaling thing and increased friction. Yes, backpedaling occurs sometimes and you don't always do it on purpose, but clearly you don't want any issue. Thanks for sharing authentic content.
tnx for this review . Now im even happyer with my good old 9 gear setup
Been running 1x since 2007, 1x9 to 1x11 and don't have any of the problems mentioned here.
I don't do much of extended climbs and spend most of the time pedaling in 13t to 36t range so don't do much cross chaining.
If I lived in Colorado front range 1x may not be my setup, but it works for me just fine for Mid Atlantic area.
The two chain drops has more to do with the tension of the rear derailleur and the clutch adjustment.
Also keep in mind, SRAM and Shimano didn't design their 1X systems with Cannondale's chainring in mind.
Also what adjustment do you have in the chainline with a BB30 bottom bracket. So yeah, the C'dale may have been optimized for a 2X system, but that is due to the specific bike design...and once again, SRAM/Shimano didn't design their 1X systems with that C'dale in mind. They have to design their systems to fit a plethora of bike types and brands. If companies aren't designing their bike around these drivetrain systems, that's on them.
As for the gearing of the trail bike. In all reality, they are not really designed to hit those super fast AND SMOOTH descents that you're doing 40+km/h......as weird as that sounds. They're designed to descent more technical terrain FASTER than your C'dale hardtail. There is a threshold in which speed is no longer useful on those bikes because you're either going to hit a jump that is outside the bikes capacity or too rough for the suspension to actually keep up and allow you to remain in control. Your test is outside the scope for what the bike was designed for. You get that Canyon in it's native environment....twisty, rocky, technical, loose, rooty, drops, step-ups, step-downs and you'll see yourself using every bit of that suspension, every bit of the gearing, and it will blow that weight-weenie FSi away. They're two different bikes with two different focuses in mind, and different gearing to match.
The dropdown chain problem occurs because you are doing conversions that are not design for. Its only a matter of calculating the chainline and deisgning frames and cranks perfect aligned.
Very informative video. Quick question, do you have any issue or feel any difference with your crank spacing when you setup your chainline? Meaning the pedal spacing not being equal on each side.
Thanks, good review, specially the financial part!
I race enduro ... and you can say what you want but no issues with 1 by and you never see 2x
Because it's basically endurance light-DH and has very specialized bikes only really meant for that one thing. They're hardly good all round bikes after all. Maybe "all round bike park bikes" since you may be able to get a shuttle or a lift back up again. They're horrific bikes for actually *riding* like 99% (probably more tbh) of the people on the planet do.
When you've got very set types of terrain and you know them ahead of time you can (if you're a bit handy and not too poor) set up gears for that exact ride.
Try timing the uphills as well and see how awesome your setup is. It's a "bike park sport" ffs, and doesn't really translate well to any other type of riding.. Besides possibly DH which is pretty similar in the way it's set up. It's like taking a ski lift to the top during winter and arguing against other skiers outside of "parks" wanting decent books to walk in.
I'm a bit bias because I really like my xx1 set up, but some of these problems are really nit-picking in my opinion.
First Issue- it's rare that you spin backwards for more than half a stroke which is almost never enough to throw the chain off
Second- The wattage loss is really so minimal, none of us are pushing 800 watts for more than a couple seconds so even if you lose 5 watts it's not statistically relevant, would equate to fractions of a section each ride
Third- Sram has better gear range than shimano and if you can push 800 watts you can push a 34t chainring uphill. In terms of cadence I've always found its dictated by the trail more than your gears
Fourth- maintenance is an issue but at least each time you replace a cassette all the gears are roughly equally worn whereas there are overlap gear combinations on 2/3by that mean some cogs see little use
Cost is definitely high, but the way I look at it is when it comes time to replace components, it's gonna cost about the same as a similar spec 2by and I think it's a better option. Also, I've dropped a chain once in the last year and a half on my 1by or there's the ever effective 30 gram chain guide if you're paranoid
Thinking that manufacturer leaving out parts like the front gears and cable, saves them money means they make more money. So they try to sell users on ideas that this is better, but really it is just better for the manufacturers. Plus if the gear sets wear out quicker, they sell more parts, or better yet a whole new bike.
This guy is completely right, this is why i`d much rather use my old 7x3 vintage mtb or my 6x2 1983 road bike. On the road bike, cross-chaining is basically non-existent, the original drivetrain lasts forever. Meanwhile, the new 9/10x3 drivetrains need replacing every 4 years, which isn`t exactly cheap. The industry is going backwards while telling people what an improvement the new stuff is. Most costumers are fools anyway.
Eh? I've been using my 3x9 drivetrain for 10 years, and it has never come close to needing replacing.
1. Nobody needs to backpedal 8 rotations super quickly in any situation
2. Riders DO have a choice. 2017 uci downhill in vallnord saw many 29" bike riders switch back to older bikes on 27.5. Why? Because it made them faster, and that's what matters.
3. They don't have to use what the company specs on the bike. One of the pro downhill bikes (forgot what event, but I can find it if it's super important) had a custom rear shock built by the team mechanic, again because it made them faster.
4. While the louder cassette does show there is power loss, I would have to argue that the loss of weight from removing 2 rings, 4-8 bolts, and extra crank material will make up for the power loss.
5. The "lack of gears" argument is total bs. With 2x and 3x drivetrains, many of the gear ratios overlap, so a bike with 20 or 30 combinations only truly has 12-15. On a more personal side, I run state XC races with a 11-34 10sp with a 38t up front. I don't even use my lower 3 gears, so don't tell me that I need A) more weight and B) another point of failure.
5. The lack of cadence argument doesn't matter, because this isn't road biking. Mountain biking is designed to make riders deal with rapid changes that are dealt with by either rapid pedaling or slow, powerful strokes. And again, you don't get that many more unique gears.
6. A 500% range in gears for now 500$ with gx eagle will provide for plenty of range, with great affordability. This means that for 500$, someone could outfit their bike for enduro type events.
7. If you are running out of gear, get a bigger chainring.
8. Matinence with a 1x is cheaper and easier than a 2x or 3x. While it *might* wear out faster, you are not replacing front cogs or a front derailleur. And if the chain is your main concern, just find a kmc x10, X11, or x12 sl dlc chain for ~60$ (with some shopping), and never change a chain again. I've had dropping problems with shimano chains due to stretch as early as 6 months in, but have been running the same kmc chain for close to 3 years now.
9. The chain would pull on the rear derailleur anyways, and carbon flexes without fatiguing, so it wouldn't matter anyways.
10. If you really don't like 1x systems, why do all of the bikes shown run 1x?
11. Dropping a chain in 1x is easier to fix than dropping on a 2-3x. A 2-3x also runs the risk of twisting a chain or pinching the chain if it catches. 1x drivetrains are also less likely to drop because of clutch mechanisms holding tension and front cogs, such as wolftooth, having longer than standard teeth to lock in gears in addition to more effectively designed teeth. I will add in that I have dropped chains on the 1x system, but these drops were due to chain stretch, a disengaged clutch, a worn out narrow wide with shorter teeth, and bad line choice, but only took 5s to fix. Also, chain guides exist.
12. The new sram narrow wide cogs are now made with longer teeth and more efficient mud shedding geometry than present on 2x and 3x systems.
Going back to the price argument, with a 1x, you won't have to buy a front shifter, front derailleur, or front cogs.
13. You don't get enough speed because you put a 30t on it like a tard.
14. The fact that you chose the bike with the smallest gear range, chain hop when reversing, and the one that's more road oriented than mountain oriented is pretty ironic and counter intuitive from my perspective. Just saying.
Truth. This guys arguments are weak. None of it really makes much sense when you think about hard enough. From the sounds of it he comes from a road background where these things might matter. Also, if that marin gravel bike came into my shop it would get a good laugh at for have tri bars on it 😂
To be honest I held back from 1x for a while. I converted a 2x10 to 1x just to see. Moving the front chainring more inboard so it is more in-between the original 2 chainrings. In extremes the angle is fine and I get zero problems if I were to back pedal. Will I go back to 2x? No
I agree whole heartedly with you.
I have 42t single and never drop chain unless stretch or parts problems and I got a front anti drop de railer . Seem to do the job .
You have confirmed my suspicions about 1x's... I keep seeing them on all the more expensive 'gravel bikes' yet I'm just looking for something decent with at 2x that can handle the 'gravel races' and anything else on road like group rides, endurance/century rides, commute, etc. It's a very difficult decision for me for what exactly I'm looking for.
Nice work! Enjoyed that. :-)