Comparing NBA Eras With Charles Barkley | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Charles Barkley to discuss the physicality of the NBA and how much it has changed since he played.
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If Mark Price, Mougsy Bouges, Spud Webb, Michael Adams, John Stockton, and Isaih Thomas could all play. All of those players are below 6’1 and 180 Why can’t Steph? Why is Steph always used as the barometer for someone who can’t make it in any era? His skillset is what will make him great every year and determination.
Iverson was also 6ft 165lbs and took a tonne of punishment, the olden days of the nba is just an era with more hard fouls but smaller and less physical athletes.
It's not about his skill set, that would work in any era so far. It's about his health.
@@catman-du8927Health has 0 to do with toughness and ability to play. He missed one season in his early career. Other than that he played 75+games with the ankle problems
@@milesaheadpodcast they didnt say he could not play or would be great - they sayd he would have big health problems and a shorter career the 2 reasons are that they beat the shit out of you and also medical and training was not as good as today
@@milesaheadpodcast You misunderstand. He is only able to play like he does now because of the medical advancements we have made. If he played in the 80s he probably wouldn't have been able to recover from the ankle issues.
imo the curry example is funny because you can visibly see Curry beefed up post 2017-2018.
He clearly put on like probably 10-15lbs muscle to handle all that contact.
The problem with that example too is that players even today have issues keeping up with Steph, and conditioning and stamina now is so much better than 30 years ago
There's a phenomenal basketball breakdown channel Thinking Basketball. On there, he did a deep dive on Steph's prime years and he noted that the extra physicality Cleveland put on him in the 2016 series held him back from being as effective as usual. So he did what MJ did and got yoked for next season
The only thing tho is that Curry dealt with the ankle injury early in his career. If he played back in the day players in that era will purposely slide their feet and try to hurt the ankle
@@kevina7576He only missed the majority of one season. The rest he played 75+ games.
@@IAmABNewSteph is one of the most conditioned athletes of all time.
The full interview is hilarious. Barkley really pissed off about estate taxes. "I was sitting around this room with my accountants and my financial advisors, and they were just telling me how much the government gonna f*** me out off when I die, and I was like, wait a minute. I've already paid money on this."
How come old people like their era better because they could hit you and generally things were worse? “Back in my day kids behaved because the teacher could hit ya” or “LeBron couldn’t play in the 80’s, Laimbeer would punch him in the nose”
I love Charles and Bill and I also tend to favor / have a bias for previous eras myself but we have to be fair here. In one breath they're saying Steph would be too small to play back in the day and in the next breath they're saying he had an unfair size advantage against Isiah. I mean what is it? 🤷🏽♂
I don’t think they’re saying that he couldn’t play, just that he would be way more banged up than he is. He might have retired earlier like Isaiah did.
Mainly they say that Isiah is their "little guy champion" & Bill then says Steph might be to big for that title. And since the cutoff point is absolutely arbitrary, why not.
I don't think at least bill is arguing for Isiah over Steph all time regardless of size.
The other thing is Steph likes to get off the ball and run you off a million screens, so the guys trying to "beat the shit out of him" would get the shit beat out of them by every screen they run into. It works both ways.
They never once said he wouldn't be great, just that he and probably tons of other all time greats wouldn't come out of the pistons battles without serious injuries. Bill brought up his ankle issues at the early part of his career where he was considered injury prone and you miss the point, steph back then likely could end his career before he ever became a true superstar bc they didnt have the tech to get his ankles better and he would have been playing on it and making it worse. Steph when he was injury prone with weak ankles was a low tier all star with great range, but he'd never get the chance to explode onto the scene with healthy ankles back then and maybe the dirtiest guys would even target the ankle to hurt it more so. That's all they're saying
Steph wasn't always an off ball player, He was a pg with the ball in his hands when he started his career and had the weak ankles. They're saying he never gets to become Steph you know today without the advancements to heal his ankles@@subMJM
I think on the other hand, the major aspect of basketball that old heads really undersell is the level of complexity that defense in today’s era. In the illegal defense and hand checking era, there was never the amount of switching, matchup hunting, and spacing that this era forces players into. The scouting for team defense is much more layered now that doubling, drop defense, hedging, zone, pre switching, ice, box and 1, weak side help, etc. are all employed regularly, many within the same games/quarter. People lament the amount of injuries modern players sustain even with modern medicine and training but fail to see how this level of defense wears the body due to attrition rather than overt physicality.
Zones are used 1-2% of the time. You can google that stat. Defenses haven't changed that much.
You act like defenses are so much more complex now than they were 30 years ago. 🤷🏻♂️🙄🤦🏻♂️
@@johnbrowntheprophetIt was. Have you ever seen pick and roll coverages where the screen setter’s man is already pre-switching? Have you ever seen a box in 1 in the 90s? The 80s man to man defense and you everyone who plays will tell you it’s way easier to hold your man rather than running through a million screens and closing out hard in space.
@@LearningHoops - Teams couldn’t play zone defenses during the 1980’s. It was illegal. 🤷🏻♂️
@@johnbrowntheprophet that’s the point no? With the elimination of illegal defense rules, the scheme versatility increased, but it didn’t really need to optimize itself until the modern 3pt Curry era, when pick and roll, 5-out, positionless offense was churning out efficiencies well above 120 Offensive Ratings at times.
With offensive coordinators building off the success of D’antoni suns, Nelson Warriors, Van Gundy Magic, Popovich’s spurs, and Kerr’s warrior schemes, we regularly have offenses where heliocentric stars can operate traditional pick and rolls, but layered on the backside are Spain pnr’s, exit screens, back door cuts, not to mentioning flare and curl cuts to the wing, and EVERY player may be a threat to shoot. Then we enter the world where guys like Siakam, Jokic, Sabonis can employ inverted pnrs pulling out traditional rim protectors. Defenses have to be hella creative like the Miami Heat’s ‘amoeba’ shifting zone that blends man 2 man with zone configurations that change depending on the matchup.
Defenses having to contend with that I envy far less than those of the era where iso scoring and simple mid range pick and pops were the most common and effective actions.
Curry is 6'3" and post those ankle injuries, became the 2nd strongest Warrior in deadlifts and squats if I remember correctly. Reggie Miller was fine. Hell, Pistol Pete... any era Curry would be amazing.
The argument that Steph's career might have been derailed by ankle injuries and he never becomes the Steph we know is reasonable.
The idea that prime Steph wasn't tough enough to play in the 80s or 90s is grade A bullshit.
@@doktarr Sure, and if MJs foot injury was worse we'd only have his college career... Curry's rehab and then training regimen has kept the ankles safe more or less...
@bigproblem5566 I can't even make sense of what you wrote here... are you trying to say the trainer was going to hurt him? Rested on what shoulder? Hand checking was never a problem then or now... it just would have changed his rim attacks... he already protects himself with deep 3s and floaters...
Curry also gets defended very physically in this era. And he doesn’t get calls. He has shown he can take a lot of punishment. But I do agree that medical advancements are a HUGE factor in longevity so it is unfair to compare records across eras.
Hell no he wouldn't, without the warriors and their playbook Steph Curry is less than Seth Curry (who has a better 3%). The guy needs at least 3 other 3 point threats on the court to be effective as he is. In the 80s he'd be benched so quick throwing up those half court shots. The guy just started to attempt defense recently. If he did manage to not get injured in the 80s, he'd be as well known as Dominique. Not a bad player but clowned for not playing D.
Great interview by Bill. Barkley is full of stories completely hilarious.
If Danny Ainge could play in the 80’s then saying Steph Curry “would get broken” is more of the same old crap from Charles.
Hot take: eras have gotten way overrated. Great players, truly great all time players would’ve found a way to be successful in any era. Be it steph in the 80’s, wilt in the 2000’s, etc.
The best era was the 1990's. The toughest era was the 1980's. The hardest era to score was in the 2000's. The easiest era to score is in the 2020's.
That's not a hot take, that's just common sense...but I know what you mean
Yeah, not a hot a take, just true. But you try to make interesting interviews out of it 😂. Barkley knows what he is doing, let him cook.
I agree but there are definitely players who would benefit more from a particular era. The most simple example is the 3-point line. West would be way better today, Russell would be worse. The rules also matter, Wilt would be better in the 2000s because he basically couldn't use his strength in his era to back up opponents. But in recent times (since the 80s) I agree that we haven't seen significant enough changes.
@@lilpenny1982Until 2004 yes, though the Kings would like to have a word with their advanced offensive system and spacing. By 2005 the Suns and then the Magic by 2008 really used spacing to their advantage. After the rule changes in 2004, it got much easier to score
I remember hearing that Manute Bol had to fly coach.... He's 7.7 ffs!
They talk about physicality. Don't talk about how sysematically defenses from that era would get pulled apart and diced up by spacing, shooting, and modern NBA offenses, which are better organized, and better tooled for what makes an offense efficient. Guess I'm shouting into the wind here though, and the older gen will always think theres was the best for some reason.
Moses Malone and Darryl Dawkins skipped college in the 70s; players didnt have to attend college in the 70s if they could show economic hardship, Shawn Kemp skipped college in 89; the reason Michael Jordan and other players in that era didnt skip college was due to lack of experience, not physically ready and capable to play in the NBA out of high school, it wasnt because of the rules, The 4yr college rule changed in the 70s; there was a player in the 60s, Reggie Harding, who was drafted right out of high school by the Pistons, but had to play 1yr semi pro / minor league before he could enter; After Kobe, Garnett and finally Lebron skipped college, the rule went back to 1yr or college or 1yr overseas
I thought Charles was going to say he's so old, he had to shower in his uniform for back to back's.
MJ did complain. There was no internet, he complained in the newspaper.
I wish the players from the 80s would realize that flagrant fouls, & knocking people out the air is not basketball and does not make you good at it for hacking lol Playing great defense is stopping your defender within the rules of the game.
People in this generation need to realize that physical defense is better than not playing defense like they do in this era.
@@selfmade8884Try playing defense when everyone can spread the floor and shoot.
This is true. The rules of the game ere different, though
@@pleaserewind295 This is a myth. Everyone cannot shoot.
Barkley is not endorsing the tactics. He is saying that having to deal with that then-permitted physicality made it difficult to play longer at a high-level, which is a borderline objective idea.
Bad boy pistons were a tough team but why wouldnt Curry be able to handle playing them? All the other small point guards survived lol. They wouldnt be able to stop his threes without tackling him..
The other PGs you mention did not shoot 14 3s per game. The point is if you put those Bad Boys on him he would back off. Get It?
But the only small point guard from that era that actually had longevity was John Stockton. And that’s because he was usually the dirtiest player on the floor.
He would absolutely roast them. It's bizzare that the argument is they'd physically hurt him. That's just an indictment on the game of the 90s not Curry or Jordan imo.
@UpTheDown7 😂🤣😂 you said he was the dirtiest and I feel it's true. I can see the man charging threw defenders, checking their oil as he passed then dishing a dime like nothing happened😂
He wouldn't roast them at all. I could go with Curry wouldn't have the team, playbook, or trust from the team to chuck 3s up the way he does now or i could go with his weak ankles. As UpThe said Stockton is the only undersized guard to argue Curry could make it but Stockton didn't have ankle injuries. If you placed Curry in the early 80s he'd be out the game in 10 years. It's not about playing a single game and beating the bad boys. It's about playing them game after game, year after year and holding up in a time without technical fouls. Not the 90s, they had techs but the 80s did not.
these two are the best.
Eh, it was a different game. As much as you can say “The new guys aren’t as tough”, the claim is both unfounded and irrelevant. I can just as easily say the old guys weren’t as talented or skilled. It’s not relevant, it’s not how the game was played in that era and we don’t know how they’d perform if they had today’s training. If you want to compare one on one and talk about intangibles like that, sure, but overall I simply do not give a fuck.
What I will say is “He got hit in the face a lot” isn’t a marker of a good player when you shouldn’t be getting hit in the face at all. Shitty officiating doesn’t make you good. Overvaluing toughness is for extremely insecure people.
Lmao Sir Charles with the QT Cup
Bogut and Draymond would have fought the pistons no hesitation for curry the same way the pistons did for Isaiah
@bigproblem5566 no they had goons. Big difference.
@@Primenumber19 Rodman, dumars and isiah were straight up dawgs, son! Sure they had some goons in Mahorn, laimbeer and sally. But them bad boys were a big
problem for the league!
Steph couldnt have made it back then? Like there weren't successful players back then with similar bodies?😂
1980’s basketball delusionals don’t even be talking about basketball, they think hard fouls, dirty hits and fights is defense lmfao. Legit haven’t seen one of them discuss the actual defensive schemes or the rules of that era yet smh 🤦🏾♂️
80s defense was mostly weak. 90s defense was the best combination of athleticism/toughness/fundamentals/effort the league has seen.
@@UpTheDown7i think 1997-2006 had it for sure
Late 80s to early 90s was by far the most talent the league has ever seen.
@@clutchgene7403 that is until 7 footers came in the league playing like point guards
@@SSJRome the best PG of all time is 6.9 and played(if he wanted)like a seven footer and dominated in the post. His name is MAGIC and he played in the 80s and early 90s. Do your research, son.
MIKE WAS COMPLAINING HIS ASSSSSS OFF STOP IT CHUCK.
After every playoff game against the Pistons..
No, he wasn't. Ya'll listen to Zeke too much.
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 there’s been multiple sources saying he went to the commissioner and complained about it and interviews on LIVE TV..mj’s the goat but quit actin like the mf was perfect
@91thompson71 Sources bad boy Pistons. Very reliable source. Everyone takes whatever complaints to the commissioner office like any other job, including the Pistons. My problem is that Zeke acts like it was just Jordan and the Bulls with complaints about the Pistons. Zeke is very smart and sneaky with his words. No one acts like Jordan was perfect. Jordan had a problem with dirty players, not physical defense. Jordan did more in the 80s than Zeke did in his career. So why would Jordan need the rules to change?
the worst thing about old ppl talking about basketball is this idea that elbowing someone is defense vs...actually playing defense lmao. you wanna fight, go play football or box or whatever. it's basketball. i can't believe y'all have me defending steph curry lmao.
also, ppl always neglect to mention that outside of the hard fouls, the pistons actually played a different scheme than other teams did, which was also difficult for mj to beat...but wanting ppl to talk about that would be wanting them to actually know basketball
Just like in football I love watching Jamarr chase and Justin Jefferson but would they be great if they had to go across the middle and get their heads cracked like Michael Irvin had to or sterling sharpe up in the cold in Green Bay
The other side of bulls “science is so much better now” point is what Stan van Grundy tweeted out a while ago.. we know and do so much more for athletes health and yet there’s way more injuries
I hope Bill considers Tom Brady was able to play longer than QBs of previous eras due to not getting hit the same way and better medical care. Just like Larry Bird was hurt by playing in the past.
I think everyone realizes that.
That's why I lately prefer to compare peaks and not full careers
Literally every old man in the entire world says the same thing about Steph curry not being able to play against physical 80s/90s defenses. This has gotten so trite and old.
You don’t get to throw elbows 25 feet from the basket. Steph would eat them alive from three.
Every old guy talks this way about everything, not just basketball. The cope is all they have.
@bigproblem5566 you’re right they would have to. It’s just that “contact” from full court is much less than around basket. This brings up the entirely different issue of how much Steph curry stretches out and disrupts a defense
@bigproblem5566And he would hand check back 😂
No coach would alowed so many three shots attempts back then. That is not how the game was played. Shooting near the basket was the best percental shot not from great beyond. There were no Kerr to allow Steph's shooting.
Sorry kids.. you soft
Do you mean people got smarter? I agree.
Steph has been better than Isaiah for awhile now.
They always try to say guys today wouldn’t last back then. But most guys back then wouldn’t last today cause they don’t have enough skill and wouldn’t add value to a team
Unpopular opinion: Dellavedova played amazing bothering D on Curry and the Pistons boys would've given him more issues than Matthew.
*Factual opinion
We've seen steph bulk up to handle aggressive defense that tries to bump him off his spot tho.....he's right bout some players today not having the fortitude but steph is like worst example he could've found bcuz steph is a generational player....those guys always adapt
It's jus like how the majority of players from chuck's era couldn't adapt to today's game. The shooting, the switching, the cross-matching, etc lot of 80s players would get lost in the sauce. They not the cream of the crop tho
Isiah nor dumars playin that hard..he went hospital
He didn’t play amazing d cuz steph still smoked him
Fact, but let's get something straight. Steph is not a joke, ok? But those Bad Boys were evil,. Steph would struggled to cope with that, as everyone else did, even MJ
Bill great stuff you and chuck are so good together
Charles Barkley thinks shoulder tackling people or elbowing people in the face is “physical defense”
@bigproblem5566because they waterdown the rules thats why players cannot play real defense also why the stats are inflated rn
also thats not what Chuck is saying not elbowing or shit the defense back then is better because you can handcheck you can drive you man from left to right
@bigproblem5566tho Rodman can still play today thanks to his great rebounding skills
The angle they missed is the shooting, if steph came around in the 80s he wouldn’t be taking even 50% of the three’s he takes because thats not how the game was played.
Steph is a fantastic player but what makes him an all time great isnt his point guard play its his shooting, him in the 80s wouldnt be anywhere near as great as he is in the modern era purely because of that.
Of course, he would have soooo much space for those threes. Go back and watch some tapes. People didn't guard the three. They thought it was a bad shot and coaches got mad if someone took too many three's. Steph single handedly changed that perception, before the analytics guys got there.
@@joshb.1118The COACH wouldn't allowed it. No 80's or 90's coach would give Stephen Curry the green light tobshoot so many 3 pointers per game. Back in the 80's and 90's the game was more coordinated and more controled by coach's iron hand. Can you imagine Bill Fitch coaching Stephen Curry and watching Steph shooting from beyond the arc constantly?!!!
@@mikjord Duh. It's what I said. Steph opened those floodgates. Of course, it started gradually, but the only reason folks have free reign now is Steph.
Thank ya bill
Just a lot of hypotheticals that can't be tested...just acknowledge that players were great in their era. Stop the era v era warfare.
Not complaining? Jordan and Phil was crying constantly to the point they changed the rules.. Jordan was great without yall fabricating.
Plenty of successful small players existed in that era. Stockton, Isiah, Price, Hersey Hawkins, Mahmoud Abdul Rauf, etc, etc.
It's Not that Curry couldn't play in that era it's just that he probably wouldn't have been allowed to be as prolific because of the handchecking & grabbing off ball.
The conversation of taking a beating is moreso for hyper athletic guards like Russ, Rose, & Ja. They probably wouldn't have made it thru a season with the way the Bad Boys Pistons were taking ppl out in midair. That's what Jordan was dealing with & overcame, but he was a full 6'6" not a tiny 6'1", 6'2", or 6'3" guard. Old School guys are comparing apples to oranges when they make the comparison of what Jordan dealt with being a dunking swingman versus what Curry is as a smaller guard & deep threat.
This is like the 3rd time they have done this episode.
I'm 63, and I agree with everything here. However, they both failed to mention the steroids being pumped into their bodies that made a physical game compatible. And yes, I'm including the 90s version of Jordan. There was zero steroid testing, and even today the purported peformance-enhancing drug testing has holes you can drive a truck through. But other than that, both Simmons and Barkley are on point.
It’s a lot easier to put on pounds than skills.
Half the bruisers from the 80’s wouldn’t even make a roster spot in today’s game.
Too slow. Can’t dribble. Can’t create your own shot. But yes, they can foul the hell out of you.
Half the players on the court back then, needed to be spoon fed by their point guard.
Charles was a universal talent but we can’t say that for most of his peers.
Sounds more like the old era has big paycheck syndrome. Mad cause players make more per year then they made their entire career.
Just my thoughts on old bitter basketball personalities…
No an acl injury is a year out and then a year to get all the way back
With handchecking guys like cp3 or lowry would have fallen off a cliff by their early 30's. Just look at Nash after the rule changes in 2004, you dont get that much better at age 30 even if you get dantoni as your coach, the guy played for another offensive genius in Nelly in his mid 20's for gods sake. Tmacs 32 in 2003 would be like 38 today. Just a few years later in 2006 Kobe, AI, Lebron, Arenas all put up career high scoring numbers after the rule changes. Hardens 36 in 2019 with all the added threes and spacing would barely be over 30 ppg in the early 2000's imo. Percentage of your teams points would be a much better way to compare eras. Also the alltime scoring is so hard to compare, MJ with a healthy lifestyle, less physicality, todays doctors and spacing would have around 45k points imo
Its like they are almost there on why today is better than ever before but they cant just parse their own logic about the advantages of today because they are old.. Players are better today
As one of those old guys, I think you’re right.
There’s a whole mass of guys from the 80’s and 90’s who simply wouldn’t make an NBA roster today.
Guys come in big straight away now lol
I loved the Jordan era but I think Steph would have just torched the Pistons. He doesn't need to go to the rim. He's obviously put on plenty of muscle for his size.
Reggie Miller was fine. Steph would be fine.
I agree we'd see him scoring more from range... but... you're telling me that's your plan for Steph? Respect to the 80s and 90s NBA but not buying for a 2nd that Steph wouldn't light those teams on fire.
Isiah would have destroyed steph. If you couldn’t defend your position in that era you didn’t play. There was no such thing as “hiding” a guy on defense like in todays game.
@@selfmade8884that's what old people will say
I bet you think Magic was a good defender lmao@@selfmade8884
Man Curry is a terrible example of a guy who wouldn't be able to play in earlier eras. His range is so huge and his conditioning is the best in the NBA, good luck hacking him when hes several feet behind the three point line sprinting all over the place the entire game, all the while using screens expertly. If anything I think his range is a great counter to the physicality of the 80s and 90s. Other players who are reliant on attacking the hole to get most of their buckets and play in less space are gonna get hit way more than someone who plays in a ton of space and is constantly moving with unlimited range.
They can't accept that his shooting would dominate in any era. He would seem like some crazy wizard in the 80s.
These guys contradicted themselves when they brought up Currys height compared to Thomas'. If little Thomas could handle that time, why couldn't Steph?
This what I like too see
Jordan got hammered cause he was going to the basket and tried to use his athleticism. Curry would dance and pull up from half court without getting hit.
Steph curry is bigger and stronger then almost every point guard that played in that era. I love chuck but I don’t really understand this point. But I know his opinion means more then mine lol
First of all, he’s not - Gary Payton, Alvin Robertson, Nate McMillan, Derek Harper, Brian Shaw, Rod Strickland, Terry Porter, Fat Lever, Pooh Richardson - but it’s not about going up against other point guards, it’s about going up against the rest of the defense. Smaller point guards back then had a shorter shelf life because going into the lane was far more physical than today. And if you were also the top scoring option it was even worse, like Isiah.
@@UpTheDown7 exactly
@@UpTheDown7steph was definitely vulnerable to physical play for a good portion of his career but by all accounts in the gym he is very strong now. The players you mentioned didn't hit the gym to the degree steph does now. Back in the day a good portion of players didn't go at all. Steve Kerr said his first year they have him a free membership to the local gym and said you can go if you want. Having said all that this league now is soft and most players have forgotten the pride it takes to compete every single night. I would take 90s and early 2000 any day of the week.
Hitting people is not defense. Old people be lying Forreal. All those old dudes from that era would get gassed by these players of today. It’s pros and cons to everything.
I would say Reggie Miller would probably be the Jimmy Butler of the 80s due was a playoff riser
OGs act like 80's-90's bball was rugby or something. Steph would've balled out. C'mon man.
Didn't they called foul on those body check 😮 .
Him not complaining? Are you fn serious?
Steph 6'2" 185lbs
Isiah 6'1" 180lbs
But yeah steph isn't big enough to make it back then
This went about as expected
It's not just the size. AI was even smaller. It's the toughness and the likelihood of season- or-career-ending injuries. Guys back in the day were MUCH more likely to get injured and the technology to repair those injuries was much worse. Ditto with shoes, braces, tape etc. It's not just little guys. Doesn't Bill Walton play more minutes and longer with 2000s medicine? Hell, Kobe had the stem cell therapy in Germany for his knees. And you'll never convince me that some of these guys are not taking certain therapeutics these days. And then there's the weight lifting, training staff, diet, charter flights....
It just never pays to compare between eras.
He wouldn't make it. Theres a reason why everybody who played the game thinks that. They wud have injured him and he'd be out.
We’ve never seen his style dominate until this era. You know why? Because you try to pull up for a jumper 1/2 second after someone hand checks you in your shooting shoulder and see if it doesn’t throw off your rhythm. Or try when they crowd right in your face and landing zone.
As soon as they made closing out hard on shooters a “flagrant foul” risk, this league was lost. All these stats are meaningless. They’re playing HORSE.
@@David-iv6je A.i wasn't a gr8 shooter, he drived to the basket all the time while Steph takes 50+% of his shots from 3, he wouldn't take the type of punishment A.I took due to playstyle alone.
@@4evahodlingdoge226 All you need to do is look at how teams would play peak Steph to beat him: they'd rough him up with lots of bumping, grabbing, and undercutting him when he shot. It worked. And there was a lot more of that in the 80s and 90s.
60s and 70s didn't have this physicality. In the mid 80s teams like Celtics and Pistons pushed the rules, and it went through the mid 2000s until the rules caught up again. And considering the Isiah Thomas and Larry Bird stories, I am glad that they did. Hell, even 'iron-man' MJ had to take a year off the sport to recharge.
Things like that should be factored in when comparing players. But 90% of humans would be better off living today than any time in the past. So yeah, it was 'harder' physically any time before today.
Sure man I love how both parents have to work today just to make it. What was that BS in the 60s that my grandparents had? When just he went to work and provided for 13 kids. Yeah that was some bs, I like me a good struggle. Nothing gets me excited about life like coming home to 3 kids and telling the wife she needs to get a job with me so they don't starve. Who needs home cooked meals every night, we'll teach them how to use the microwave and buy junk food. Hopefully they don't get mixed up in gangs without parental supervision. Greatest time to grow up ever, kids don't even know their identity.
The old hat basketball style of “i cant defend this guy so ill just try to physically hurt him” is not toughness its shitty sportsmanship.
Exactly, it's dude with mid talent who couldn't shoot.
It was a mental thing.
@@pleaserewind295The Pistons are one of the GOAT teams.
Before determining the GOAT, you have to establish the greatest Era.
easily late 80s, early 90s. So much insane talent!
Stephen Curry - would have adapted to the physicality. How about imagining Jordan, Pippen, or Chuck - hitting 3's at a decent clip?
So the twig is going to adapt to being put on his ass whenever he crossed the free throw line but the greatest jump shooter in the history of the game wouldn’t be able to stretch his shot another 4 feet if that was the game plan? Stop.
@@UpTheDown7a lot of short players succeeded in that era. Skinny players included. I think Steph would’ve been fine. Transport him to the 80s and no one would be able to keep up with his cardio running from corner to corner
@@UpTheDown7 This is why Chuck and Simmons need to stop comparing ERAs. Go back and review the 3 point percentages of the 98 Bulls. Draymond Green has a higher three point shooting percentage than the lot of them. Kerr was great. Kukoc was average by today's NBA standards.
@@misinfluenceNo illegal screens. More physical, more back-2-back games etc
@peteybrian Jordan, Pippen, nor Chuck would need a 3 ball. Jordan shot the 3 at 36% when he shot them at a higher rate.
All these dumb comments, nobody is saying Steph wouldn’t be great in any era. They’re just pointing out the different difficulties he would have had to go through in the past. And they’re pointing out how there are a ton of advantages today that allow players to play longer (and to develop more skills, but that’s a whole other discussion). I’m a big Steph fan, and certainly if you just transport what he is now into any previous time period, he’d dominate. But that’s not really the point they were getting at.
lol mugsy was what? 5’3 and played really well in that era. These old heads exaggerating things like usual.
Michael also went to stern and complained about the physicality.
Social media puts so much more pressure on the players now a days, back then the players could hide a lot more and not have fans dissecting them every game.
The bad boy pistons are always the default example of the physicality in the 80’s because that’s literally the only team that played like they did. But these old heads wanna act like one team makes the whole league a bunch of goons trying to slam each other on the ground every game for every possession.
Great players can play in any era. Steph would still be Steph if he played in the 80's and 90's. He just won't have the longevity that he has now because the games were more physical and nutrition and treating injuries isn't advance as it is today. Steph might have ended up like Isiah, retiring at 31.
So many missed the point. The bad boys pistons and the dirtiest teams were trying to end a career, the little guys may come out of it ended, but mainly with the advancements, they're saying young Steph at 23 with the weak ankles, never becomes the Steph you know b/c they don't have the advancements back then and he'd just ruin his ankle playing on it and never healing and he ends up with a short career maybe never gets to reach the heights he did due to injuries. He'd be Grant Hill'd at an even earlier stage of his development.
You are assuming to compare Curry he would have to go back to their era, how come magic can’t come to this era, or the pistons, they would not win any rings without being physical.
I can see Bill saying Isiah was the best little guy he ever saw, but what about A.I.? He was even lighter than Thomas; just sayin'...
Just bc the game was physical doesn’t mean it was better.
-- for the sake of discussion, "better" is relative to the individual.
everyone can appreciate the 2020's free flowing offensive game. Everyone can agree that body checks and clotheslines in a 1980s game is just too much unnecessary physicality. However, for me, having that balance of great offense and hard defense is a nice blend.
The difficulty is drawing that line on physical defense. Too much physicality and the scores can barely manage 80ppg in the Finals. Too little, we get blow out losses of 40, 50 pts.
@@jlui21 I like that, great take!
Where he is wrong, he assumes the modern day player have to go back to the past to play, the bad boys could not play in this error because you are not allowed to punch people in basketball.
Not from 84 - 98. 84 - 93
this oldheads are being salty now at this point.
It makes sense, curry ankle wouldve had him out the league in about 5 years
The best little man is ALLEN IVERSON not I.Thomas
Barkley has a good point. Way too physical for Curry
But not for Isiah or Reggie or Stockton or AI? Who are all time greats and all skinner and not as strong as Curry
@raymondpaultre9036 I disagree. He would of been out of the league just as Barkley mentioned
@bingo9685 It's not subjective. The other guy debunked it with the weights and strength. Barkley has no point.
Compare Lebron to his peers. Wade, Bosh, Melo etc. all ended their careers far from their best form. What Bron is doing longevity wise is 1 of 1. No one in this era can have a 20+ yr career like he has. Young guys like Zion might not even last 10.
Why do they have to go back, why can’t they play in this era? You can’t use your physicality to make up for your lack of talent.
Look, thw college argument i dont full accept cause you don't play as much. So those injuries arent as bad due too that. Yes medical advancements, but not the college exuse cause then you are using the longevity argument..and look, the way Steph plays would be probably not be sustainable however greatness is still greatness. These players play based on the eras rules, so steph would be playing different
im happy noone has to take the beatings michael got, the pistons are a disgrace in terms of fairness, sore losers. it says a lot that the one point charles comes up with is the brutality, like yeah, that made your era awesome, people played physical. great job.
Bad take Chuck.
Reggie Miller weighed 100 pounds soaking wet and went against Bird’s Celtics, those Pistons, and the Knicks……and THRIVED.
Steph would be fine.
6'7" 195 yeah 100 soak and wet😂. Let's move on to the actual video instead of what is made up in our minds. Glass ankle Curry would have a 10 year career if he played most his days in the 80s. Mark Price came in 86 and had to retire in 12 seasons. The only undersize guy who played most of the 80s for a full career as a starter was Stockton but he had good ankles. Also Stockton wasn't the main scorer.
How many points a game would Michael Jordan have scored if he did not routinely face Detroit Piston style beat down defenses and was able to "load manage" his regular season? Fifty or more?
Bill Simmons loses all credibility, especially in the advanced stats era, when he said inefficient turnover prone poor rebounder and defender Isiah Thomas was better than Chris Paul. It’s not even close. Thomas was barely above average most of his career.
Steph Curry doesn't even really go to the rim so he wouldn't be taking the same type of blows that MJ took so terrible comparison.
Btw, Lebron is 6'8 250lbs, the Pistons aren't pushing him around.
They always talk about LeBron like he isn't a huge guy.
@@pleaserewind295 Pipen was the best wing defender in the 90's and was 6'7 210lbs, Lebron would put dude in a body bag ahahah.
@@4evahodlingdoge226They will just tell you LeBron is "soft" or some bullshit.
@@4evahodlingdoge226No, he wouldn't. Pippen rookie weight. Jordan was the best wing defender
You CAN'T compare era's, everything is completely different. For me there's no GOAT, there's only best of your era. We can go through all this mental rigmarole to try and compare players. But the dirty little secret is that it's impossible to compare
Stop it… The Jordan Rules was about the league protecting their star player
The Jordan rules were a set of defensive tactics to stop Michael Jordan.
🧢🤣😂😅 Anyone who likes the original post is beyond crazy. Go watch ESPN 30 for 30 and learn what the Jordan Rules were really about.
"Chuck Daly said, This is the Jordan rule: Every time he goes to the f---in' basket, put him on the ground,'" Dennis Rodman says. "When he comes to the basket, he ain't gonna dunk. We're going to hit you and you're going to be in the ground. We tried to physically hurt Michael."
Michael Jordan did complain. A lot.
What would prince james do if he couldn’t flop ???
The bad boys would of beat him up too
so many offended people in the comments 😂
So fouling is defense…😒
It was back then..hand checking was legal for the majority of the history of the nba..
Lol how they underestimate Curry but cry so much when people underestimate they era. Old heads ne crazy af.
Literally 1 minute in and he already sounds dumb.. he’s talkin about beating basketball players up.😂 u can’t make this shit up. I have no idea why they think punching, kicking, slamming people to the ground out the air is basketball. 😂😂 it’s absolutely insane. & if thas the case as big as Charles was why didn’t he do more judoball to his opponents?
You missed the point. Rewatch. Saying what was is different from saying what should be.
@@lahdopa But whether he is hating or not, is their primary assessment incorrect that playing in today's game is less physical punishing than playing in the 80s and 90s?
@@chrisculver567 Exactly. Everything back then would either get you tossed and\or suspended these days.
I wouldn't expect anything less from such a soft generation.
@@steveandersen996 sounds good till that direct deposit hit.. this soft generation making triple what these hardwood wrasslers made lol
Steph literally put on weight over the years to be stronger in the lane lol. And why when these guys talk about the 80s/90s it’s always “what would you do against the pistons?” If everybody was so tough, why are they such the outlier?
Because they literally tried to hurt and injure their opponents?
@@nikosvault point being, the rest of the league wasn’t as tough as promoted. If the only example of toughness and hard fouls came from one team, that doesn’t make it a league wide thing.
@andrejones7176 Also, if that worked, the Pistons would have 12 rings.
I like Barkley but c'mon. He's the worst person ever to a segment like this. A lot of bias involved
A couple of old farts with pristine front lawns.
LOL. You act like Steph is in his early 20's. He's 35. He's an old fart in his own right.
Yup., common sense. Sadly gone among today's people
Jordan wasn't winning against pistons
Oh please Steph would pull up from half court before they touched them
@bigproblem5566 guess what happens when you have to guard past the three point line the floor opens up driving lanes. Plus you couldn’t hand check in the scoring area
They would also have to deal with Draymond distributing and chasing Steph and klay around 1000 screens all game long plus getting torched in the pick and roll since the average 90s big can’t guard in space as well as today
@@zain4070no illegal screens in the 80s-90s
Steph’s game would have never evolved in the 80’s & 90’s. Coaches would’ve never allowed it. Even the best shooters did not shoot 8 3’s a game. I don’t know why sensitive Gen Z’ers can’t get through their thick skulls that the defense played back then would nullify a lot of this play which is passed off as being “more skilled”.
Jordan wasn't good enough to play in the NBA when he was 18. Stop it.
If you want to watch big ass dudes run into each other go watch a WWE match not an nba game!
LOL. Playing no defense and just jacking up 3's is not basketball either.