Gun Guys - Ep. 06: Full-size vs Compact 1911's
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2018
- In this episode of Gun Guys, Ken Hackathorn and Bill Wilson talk about their preferences for Full-Size 1911s vs. preferences for Compact 1911s.
website: www.wilsoncombat.com/
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Mr. Wilson I may not be able to afford one of your pistols right now, but man I thank you for sharing your knowledge online.
Man, I love hearing from these guys. They've got the knowledge.
I agree but more than Knowledge, they’ve got the wisdom.
I'm so glad their conversations have been preserved for posterity. One day we won't have them around but we can all learn from their wisdom.
I love the Commander length, it balances perfectly in my hand, I much prefer the takedown on a bushing barrel, it's just easier for me. If I could afford one, I'd love one chambered in 9mm Luger blued.
Thanks for the talk. 68 years old and now carry compact 9mm. I recover better. Now I know why.
5" full-size for sure
I was pleasantly surprised to discover my recently acquired Colt Defender with a 3" barrel shoots just as well as my all steal Commander. Both are chambered in 45acp.
Steel, not steal.
Great video guys
Some think the ideal carry 1911 is the CCO (Combat Carry Officers) configuration: Commander length slide for recoil control and reliability and Officers grip size with upgraded 7rd mags for concealment.
I'm glad I found this series. Thanks for taking the time to make and share this video.
As a young city officer (1971) I carried a Govt. Model .45 because I knew it well (Army.) But, I noticed that Texas Rangers carried Combat Commanders. The shorter pistol was easier to carry when seated in a car and I found that I shot one better because of lessened recoil.
So, I went to the Combat Commander for duty and a LW Commander off duty (and later undercover.)
This series of videos is fantastic. So much info. Wish I could afford a WC 1911!!
Dont we all hey😂
I own all 3 Full size , Commander and Officers Model. Some compacts do have feeding issues being smaller pistols. The Full Size and Commander don't always have those problems. In my Officers Model I must use standard or +P ammo for it to cycle 100%. Target or low power loads in the Officers Model will cause it to hiccup .
Or you could get a lower power spring and have it cycle everything reliably for like 20$.
So why do you continue to throw your money away on these worthless hunks of junk?
Awesome! Huge 1911 fan here!
Just today I put 100 rounds through my Detonics Mk VI 45 ACP. With a 6-round magazine and 3-inch barrel, it is a TRUE compact. With its rear sight oddly mounted just aft of the ejection port, it has an even shorter sight radius than you would expect. I shot 50 rounds of extremely light 200gr lead SWC, and 50-rounds of full-power (not +P) 200gr Hornady XTP, with not a single malfunction. This gun NEVER malfunctions no matter what kind of ammo I feed it. At 15 yards I would get three-round cloverleafs and the others spaced an inch or two on either side (my vision isn’t what it used to be). It is much heavier than my Kimber Micro 9 and in fact has less recoil and is much more controllable. The sights are relatively huge (wide but not tall) and easy to see. I maintain it is the very first and still the best compact 1911 ever made!
Ending point was a wonderful take away for the .45 vs 9mm guys....I'm a .45 guy but the reality is controlling the weapon matters ....you must be able to control your sidearm.... I'm young I'll keep my full size Wilson for everyday carry..... Only time I'm carrying a 9mm only is swimming....the M&P Shield is a nice compact pistol for swimming.... Or keeping near you while in and out of water.
I knew compact and subcompact pistols were less reliable since I got seriously into guns, but I never understood exactly why until now. Thanks for the bit about dwell time and slide mass etc. Shooting the shorter sight radius better with aging/poor eyes, cool! And they say the short sight radius on the AK is just a disadvantage vs. an AR's. I prefer them. Good info, thx!
Very nice video I enjoy learning from the masters.
Another excellent video, gentlemen.
always enjoy your discussions, never fail to learn at least one new thing and I've been shooting 50 years
I've found out that for best reliability in a 3 inch use 185 grain, in 4 inch use the 200 grain, and 5 inch 230 grain. Best cycle 😊
I was and still am a full size 1911 guy. That being said, after buying an alloy commander size 1911 for carry (s&w performance center 1911) I have bought a couple other commander size 1911s because they just feel more balanced and still have the reliability of a gov model with good mags.
I've always had a full sized 1911 and I would feel so strange carrying a small pistol. Several decades of habit I guess.
My only 1911 is a Springfield Champion Operator. Not being able to do a check press because of the guide rod, and it’s insane take down aside, I LOVE it. It’s just short enough, and just heavy enough. Other than putting a ring style hammer on it, I wouldn’t change anything. I’ve finally put 500+ rounds through it, and it shoots exactly the way id like it to. The only drawback to that gun’s accuracy is it’s owner. Me haha!
Uhhh... you can press check any gun, if you have more neurons than a potato.
I have had all three sizes. The smallest being the colt officers. It was reliable with the Ed brown reverse plug and spring set up. After a couple hundred rounds it started deforming the slide stop notch in the slide.
I'm 70 and have been shooting 1911 Pistols for 55+ years, beginning with my Grandpa's WW1 1911 he brought back with him from Europe in 1919. When Grandpa died in 1968, his Son got it. Uncle Bob then sold it, darn it all.
~I'm still like Ken in liking nothing smaller than a Commander 1911 shooting .45 acp. In fact, I'm looking to buy a Commander later this Spring. Maybe someday I'll buy an Officers Model in 9mm...maybe.
~I'm retired and have a fixed income so a Wilson Combat is out of my price range unless I can find a used one at a price I can afford. I hoping to get Lucky.
Make 1911s full size again.
Yeah, I'm ALL about the full sized, 5" 1911. Softer recoil (in my experience/opinion), easier to shoot well, pack more punch, more room for error, longer sight radius.... still easy to carry because it's so flat. Charlie Petty did a really interesting article for American Handgunner years ago about the difference in design and reliability between full size 5" Government sized , vs 4 1/4" Commander sized, vs. 3 1/2" Officers sized pistols. He illustrated slide travel of each pistol and correlated the necessary recoil, mainspring and magazine spring wights required to make each pistol function reliably. There was a noticeable, but not terribly big difference from 5" to 4 1/4", but the change from 4 1/4" to 3 1/2" was VAST with very little room for error or timing. I've simply never felt any of the shorter pistols offered enough of an advantage in weight & concealability to offset the reduction in reliability, shootability, etc.
The compact version is much more comfortable to carry and easier to conceal. That means I don’t leave it at home. For me, concealed carry is the only reason I own handguns so a full size just isn’t practical. If it was my primary home defense weapon, I would consider a full size. But handguns are not my preference for home defense. Enjoyed the video.
Colt Officers Model 45 has some weak points: unsupported dual recoil springs that can buckle, small retaining tooth on the spring plug can break and send the plug flying, barrel bushing is thin and fragile and can break. I upgraded to the EGW heavy duty recoil spring assembly, which comes equipped with a 22lbs flat spring, full length guide rod, and an unbreakable shouldered spring plug. I fit a match type Cylinder & Slide Officers bushing for tighter fit and its outer portion is thicker and much stronger. The Government and Commander Models work Okay with standard recoil system, but the Officers Model needs upgrading in my opinion.
Excellent presentation thank you for your time posting this very interesting information.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent.
Love the intro
Very informative!
Some good nuggets of info in this video.
Good info right there 👍
I love my colt defender in 45 acp. I think the duel spring helps with reliability.
I have had a different experience with shorter 1911s. Sorter 1911s appear to recoil MORE than full sized ones. Yeah, it's less mass moving back and forth, but that mass is moving faster, which means the slide bottoms out harder.
Granted you can replace springs to fix that, but I can do the same with my full size gun.
This on top of the act that 3/4'' less slide length is negligible as far as weight of the gun and ease of concealment, means I have no desire to own a commander sized 1911.
I enjoyed the chat, and as always, The Best semi-customs on the planet. Mike
I sure do love this show.
A wc edc x9 is one of my bucket list guns, hopefully someday 👍🏻
My hat is off to Wilson Combat. My EDC X9 has been 100% reliable. I’m really learning to like this gun. Thanks for the videos guys. I enjoy them.
Hey Bill can you maybe put together a episode on hand gun hunting loads in low development in bullet types what you’ve used and what you’ve had a good experience with more and more people in the circles I run with getting into hand gun hunting especially with a 1911 platform
IDK, all I own are compacts--- not even commanders --and I have never had an issue after at least 30,000 rounds in the last 6-7 years
What is the barrel length of your compact 1911? 45 caliber?
I have all three sizes.... no problem with any of them... except getting enough time to KEEP ON SHOOTING!! lol 1911s are just too fun.
Thanks for the video. The Ruger compact is my carry. 9MM works just great!
I put a wilson combat 17 1/2 pound spring in my full size 1911. Less recoil and cycles more reliably than stock spring.
Am I the only one that chooses to like what shoots the best in my hands?
Yes, you are.
I'm surprised you guys don't have more subs
Love your videos. Would you consider doing a video on proper cleaning of a semi-auto handgun? Does leaving ammo in a magazine for significant periods of time weaken the spring and shorten magazine life? As you can tell. I am new to the shooting hobby.
I love LOVE my full size, stainless .45ACP WC 1911. But....
The wife recently got a 4" 9mm EDC X9 and I am suffering from serious pistol envy. It's compact, reliable, accurate, and soft shooting. Maybe the best gun I've ever shot. If I wasn't such a .45ACP fan.....we'd be a two EDC X9 family. Hell, we may be soon anyway. WHATTA GUN!
My recoil springs: Government Model 5" = 17lbs, Commander = 20lbs, Officers = 22lbs.
I’ve had enough problems with full sized 1911’s (not named Wilson Combat) that I don’t even want to try my luck with a commander size. If I want to go down to 9mm I am going to go with a double stack CZ75B, or Glock 19, and pick up some capacity. This was a great video, and Wilson makes great guns, but I have no use for a 1911 unless it’s a full size and larger caliber of .45 acp., or 10mm.
1000% I don’t care how many “badass shooters with mustaches” use a 1911 chambered in 9mm, it will ALWAYS be dumb to me when you can literally have ANYTHING else tricked completely out that you can do nothing else to for half the cost. I mean shit you can get a Wilson Combat Glock 19 for like $1.4K-$1.6K (to use a direct manufacturer comparison). $3k-$5k for a 9mm non-racing gun is mental.
@@MrMann-gt1eh Agreed! A 1911 9mm commander is not the answer in my opinion. There are a bunch of better options that are much less expensive. ‘Badass shooters with mustaches”…LOL!
There’s seems to be 2 camps. Longer/heavy slide either 1. Absorbs more recoil because the energy of the round is eaten up more trying to cycle the gun or 2. A heavy slide coming back at you increases muzzle flip. I have to say I’m in camp 1. Compacts are snappy typically, never fired a snappy full size gun.
I'll be honest, a lot of people don't realize
I'll be honest, a lot of people don't realize
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The problem with compact autos is the same problems with snub nosed revolvers. Short barrels give less velocity and hollow points need a certain velocity to perform as desired. Other thing is sight radius, short barrels do not yield the accuracy of longer barrels.
6" Long Slide 1911's. What are your thoughts on the subject? I've always had an affinity for them. A friend of my uncle's had one in .38 Super and to this day it is one of the nicest guns I have ever shot. Are longslide 1911's reliable? Or is it just another thing that looks cool but in reality falls flat?
I own a full size h&k 45 and a s&w compact I love them both ,accurate hard hitting
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT EXCELLENT VIDEO! But I'm sticking with my full sized 45 1911! My younger days I loved the 9mm. Then 44mag, 357mag, 400 Corbon and so on. I'm 58 have arthritis other ailments and had broken hand bones. Compared to a 3 inch 44mag shooting 305g +P ammunition a 45 is tame! I can hit the end of a beer can with all nine rounds at 15 yards with my 45 using my carry ammunition. I only shoot three times a year. I know IT SUCKS! BUT THATS WHEN I'M ON PRIVATE LAND. I've been to ranges but it costs money and (it's probably me) but I don't feel comfortable around lots of people. Sorry I digress. 😞
Bill needs to write a book , his story !
shopwilsoncombat.com/BOOK-GUN-GUY-BY-BILL-WILSON-HARDCOVER/productinfo/GGBOOK/
I had an Officer compact in the mid 90’s. It was bad. It always had fallers to feed. Mid 90’s Colts had a lot of problems.
So why do you continue to waste your money on the worthless clunkers ?
Colt in the 80s and 90s were crap. Horrible quality control. Employees under United Auto Workers Union--look at the shit they rolled off thr assembly lines for cars! Deep cutting lines on surfaces. Mismatched slide to frame fit. Low reliability. Then in the 2000s Colt bought CNC machinery and improved on their QC. Some years ago CZ bought Colt and hopefully cracked the whip on them loke they did with Dan Wesson.
My main reason to carry a full size is for that ballistics of the 45. The longer the barrel, the better.
Browning said it himself that 5" is optimal for the 1911.
I wish I never got trade in Colt Commando 45 acp. I miss it. 🙁
Hackathorns stache is like Arnolds longslide in T1
Great Lead in Music, rare on UA-cam.
Ed Brown
EVO KC9 🏁🏆
If i was rich i would buy one of your guns but Imma definately use yall mags and parts in my cheaper 1911 until it is completely a wilson
I love the CCO format - 4” barrel on Officers frame. Especially in .38 Super or 9x23 Winchester so you get Mag capacity back.
Bill,I bought you're ultralight commander and love it! I'm ready for a compact,on a sentinel frame,titanium frame,(ok I'll settle for aluminum), 3.5 to 3.8 inch barrell,in .45 caliber.I got the money ready,let me know when I can order? Donn
Its
A shame you guys are getting away from what made you great,Kimber sells a bunch of 3.5 inch .45 jam o matics,I bet you can do one right?
@@TheBandit59 I've had a Armcor built 1911A1-CS that I EDC for about 10 years. Goes bang every time.
@@TheBandit59 I've EDC a Armscor built 1911 A1-CS for 10 years. Goes bang evey time.
Kens the man
There's a reason the .32acp was chambered in the most popular small autoloaders for most of the 20th century.
I use a rule of thumb smaller gun the smaller round .
It made me happy to see my gun on that table! (Far right).
I like old gi models in od green
Flat wire recoil spring, Wilson mags, and proper light grease ( not oil! ) solve all ills. And replace your springs every year. Cheap insurance, and you will actually clean your gun properly at least that one time.
what model is that in front of Bill with the rail?
Think of it as going to a gun fight and you can bring any gun you want, why wouldn't you bring the big one?
I bet bill Wilson could make a kimber shoot true and reliable.
Could you go into a bit of detail on why Kimbers do not shoot accurately? Or maybe some anecdotes or evidence?
The 5-inch pistol has a lot more slide mass than the Commander?
There's less than an ounce difference in weight. I wouldn't call that a lot.
a Cary firearm should be able to run any ammo you put in it.
Simple answer..... 2 of each plus a long slide for backup
Kind of disagree for once with you guys. I believe the heavier gun has less felt recoil and not to mention more power due to more velocity with longer barrel.
I realize the compact 9mm 1911 is awesome and easily carried but it’s just a different animal compared to a true full size IMO. Great video though as always.
How defining full, compact, and subcompact. I assume you are talking abt roughly: 5", 4", and 3" barrels. I have a Springfield Emp4 that shoots accurately and reliably. I can't shoot a 3" very accurately. The 5" is often too big to conceal.
I have the same eyesight issue. It took me a couple years to figure out why I started shooting worse with larger guns.
Bill Wilson is one cool person
I'd like the commander with compensater in .460 Rowland .40super, .50gi and .50AE. Are there kits or mods available?
460, 40 super, and 50 gi I think but 50 ae is a tad too long
@@jorgesolis9468 thanks, still would like to find a slide and barrel
@@kendalldawson162 slide would be the same gotta change out recoil springs, internals mags for b50 gi barrel also
Commander size with an alloy frame in 9mm is an awesome package for a more modern 1911
No way
9mm has no business in 1911😂🤣
Can’t handle recoil I guess
Need a oversized gun/weight to shoot 9mm?
@@DuhCL0WN so you are one of those 1911 snobs eh? The Dan Wesson guardian I have is 28.5 oz so it's similar to a Glock in weight. If you want to say 9mm has no business in a full steel 5" 1911 then sure I'd find that agreeable.
Which model is the compact?
The Officer Model, in Colt speak... The Defender series.
Defender size is 3.1 inch barrel
Officer size is 3.5 inch barrel.
Add Hogue rubber grips to the compact 1911 for better control.
I got a Wilson #88
G 26. Learn to shoot it. Buy three of them for what a custom sawed-off 1911 would cost. Done.
if you're gonna own a 1911 i just do not see the point in a miniature. it was designed as a full size combat weapon not a gym shorts at the grocery store weapon. get a p365 for concealment and be done with it.
Discuss how shorter .45acp barrel length affects hollow point expansion threshold.
Slow ass 45ACP ain't gonna expand anyway!!
I've liked all the others so far but this one sounded more like an advertisement than a discussion.
Agreed, a little too much coolaid drinking for me.
What’s the point of cheap 1911 then if all everyone recommends is 1911 there junk I don’t buy guns I don’t use or enjoy shooting without jamming and if it doesn’t jam then why not carry it?
Not sure i agree with that, I have a few shorter barrel 45s and they all kick like a mule.
Full size for sure...... I like the control and confidence boost of a Full size. I left the compact game, because of "tacticool idiots" everywhere who want the latest and greatest toys INSTEAD of practicing and Keeping what you got......it's just a stupid mentality to have, this isn't a pickup truck, it's a Tool to save your life. Keep it simple stupid!
Should not be carrying if you have poor eye sight
Kimber Ultra Carry II. Very accurate, and never a malfunction. OMG, now I'm jinxed.
The further you deviate from the 5” original. The more issues
Well you know. Compact guns work well these days. Probably not 1911s however everything else does.
An officers 1911 fitted right with the proper ammo is just as reliable as any other compact pistol nowadays. The 1911 is just more finnicky and need more care, which isnt a problem if you take care of it. Unless you plan on crawling through mud in your daily life, in that case get a polymer wonder 9. Otherwise for day to day EDC a 1911 officers model is on par with any other pistol as long as you take care of it properly.