If there are enough owners with the weld problems, there may be the possibility of a class action lawsuit against Grand Design. With the cost of these units, quality should be their first priority.
Always somebodys answer, sue them, class action lawsuit. Good luck with that, GD has deep pockets and will tie this up in court for years. and you will spend thousands on lawyers. You will have to prove without a doubt it was their fault, they are already mentioning overweight. And if you scale it now and it's ok they will still say you overloaded it at some point. Time to sell the garbage and move on.
The bad thing about class action suits is, the lawyers get $546,000,000 and each plaintiff gets a coupon for $3 off their next purchase of a Grand Design product.
I think the RV manufacturers have come to the conclusion that it is not in their best financial interests to warranty the junque they manufacture. Plus, if you say anything negative in a public way, you become persona non grata instantly. Where was the number for that attorney???
We had a Grand Design it was cheap garbage. The said they wouldn't honor the warranty after 9 days when it flooded. They lied to us and it was a horrible experience. Never again! Check recalls and class action lawsuits these things are dangerous!
Geoff, after you weigh and measure your trailer maybe take it to a certified weld shop to get their opinion, on the repairs previously made and the framing
As a Certified RV Tech I have considerable hands on experience with RV's and Horse Trailers. The difference in robustness in chassis is striking and in the cases I've been asked to comment on it is clear that chassis flexion is the cause of many RV chassis failures.
Here in the PNW a lot of us are buying horse trailers with living quarters and converting them into toy haulers for our UTV’s since regular toy haulers are such junk and can’t handle leaving paved roads. A used horse trailer is very cheap and much stronger built then factory toy haulers.
And now it’s your responsibility to spread the word about fuel additives. I HIGHLY recommend Hot Shot Every Day Diesel. It’s high quality and can be found in most auto stores and definitely at Tractor supply. It’s not that expensive either. It can also be mixed with their anti gel products if you ever decide to travel in cold climates. ❤❤❤ We got you brother !
@@Billybob50119 It’s actually a great design, unfortunately it’s just meant to run on high sulfur fuel which we do not have here in the US. In Germany they have practically NO issues with them because of the high lubricity of their fuel. So just call it what it is…..a great design but is being improperly implemented by American truck manufacturers. Just run a good fuel additive, drain the separator monthly and change both filters every other oil change.
For some reason this big rv community never got together to have a petition to make the rv builders and dealers get regulated. Quality, warranty, service and so on
We appreciate your diligence keeping the community posted. We were going to pull the trigger on a momentum In Jan2024, and now we will not . I have seen way too many issues and GD not standing behind their product. I know all manufacturers can have issues , but this is ridiculous. Stand strong, prayers for you.
Yes, I would look at another Brand. I have to say, in all that I've learned the best is the Brinkley. Do yourself a favor and go look at them closely...
@@MyBucketListDay Brinkley is taking a page out of the GD page for getting influencers to do reviews and it won't be too long before many are towing them too. I just hope their end product once fully scaled is as good as it looks. I have visited the New Horizens factory and use them as a point of reference for others to strive towards.
@@dankarau2307 NH would be the standard for sure, if you have the means and the time to wait for one i think they should be right at the top of anyone's list. I dug around a LOT of RV's before we pulled the trigger and NH was on the list for sure. We ended up not buying one because we could not wait 2 years to get it. We ended up having DRV do a custom build for us and we literally pick it up tomorrow. We toured a bunch of factories and of all the brands we toured in the Elkhart area DRV and Riverstone were the only two i considered. The frame alone on a DRV or a Riverstone are so far beyond what GD and others put under their rigs. They also don't use chip board floors and roofs and no MDF in cabinets etc. Being able to see under the covers the quality differences were staggering. If anyone is going to buy a rig for full timer living they absolutely should do a factory tour to see how these things are made. I will say that on some of the tours i did they only showed specific things, i think the things they wanted you to see. DRV specifically let me see everything i wanted, let me take a real good look at every stage of construction instead of just a passing glance and even had the guys making the RVs' on the line address specific questions i had. Seemed to me like they had nothing they wanted to hide from a prospective customer which is one of the reasons i pick up a JX450 tomorrow.
@dankarau2307 these were going to be my exact thoughts as well. If this guy had a bigger subscribe list close to less junk more journey or changing lanes, grand design would be doing more for him. However, this is what you get for buying products from being aw struck by UA-cam influencers😊
I think I would definitely hire a lawyer and go after Grand design! I can actually say my Forest River toy hauler i bought in 2015 has held up really good!
Forest River i had to throw the keys to them. It was a complete piece of junk. I walked away from it and it cost me big time but i just bit the bullet.
I did not read every comment so this may have been mentioned. It will likely/ be an arduous process but I’d start with creating a list of all owners with this issue. By creating a class and with subpoena power, this list should be easy to obtain. Once you have the class you’ll file in court in Indiana. You should be able to find an attorney who does this stuff. Then you wait it out. My heart goes out to you because you can’t really live in your rig unless you simply park it. I have been in two of these cases as a complainant so I’ve a vague idea how it works. It takes patience and commitment but you have them by the you know what and there’s an army of disgruntled folks behind you. Go get them. So glad we went with Brinkley!
@@MyBucketListDay and I just saw the newest small Z the 3110. It takes the north south bed from the 2900 and the walk through bath with the hall closet. All reasons I rejected the 3100. And it add a bunk house with a door and loads of storage plus a bigger theater sofa and a better fold out bed if needed with a removable dinette. We both snore and hubby has frequent bouts of insomnia plus needing a bathroom so we do not share a bed. This model will give him his own bed and eliminate sofa. And his own tv. Perfect.
Man I feel for you. I would say do everything you need to do legally to get this resolved. Years ago I had issues with a Dodge 1500 extended cab truck purchased new from a local dealer.After working with them multiple times to get the issues resolved, I made the decision to take a loss and trade it off for another brand vehicle. The loss stung for quite some time. I just mentally couldn't stand dealing with it. Best of luck. I'll be watching and rooting for you.
Lawyer Up!!!! Get ALL of the AMMO you can, get everyone that has had problems with their Grand Design RV's and do a Class Action Mass Tort Litigation Lawsuit against GD!
We first saw a Grand Design trailer at a show in 2015 and were very impressed with the quality. Since they sold out to Winnebago they've turned into poor quality like most towable RVs. There's only a few companies I would consider buying and Grand Design is certainly not one of them anymore.
Take all ur problems and documents,go to better business bearu in every state you have had dealings with GD,also go to the attorney General in your state and file a complaint and it never hurts to get your state representative involved,you would be surprised how these people can help u if have a legitimate proublem,and u do
Sorry about all the problems, one thing to think about now is that if that king pin area completely fails and causes an accident, you have already documented prior knowledge of the damage. Be careful driving that thing around now. Not a matter of IF it fails but when. good luck
I bought a grand design 303 in 2021 because of their supposed quality. It’s a smaller 5th wheel, just hoping the problem is not as prevalent. I just want to thank you for taking the time to share your experiences and outcomes.
I am personally in a battle with Forest River that is quite disgusting but I have a neighbor at the park I’m in with a brand new Grand Design. So much is wrong with it they have had to cancel plans and so much more. Looks like the sale of the company changed the great reputation they DID have. It is pathetic what these companies are doing.
i know people in California with the same frame problems. they hired an attorney to have their 5th wheels lemon lawed. they all got their money and expenses back. i would think the rest of the country should be the same. as far as your fuel pump, it is not the fuel. it is a poorly designed pump. additives will not help. most fuel in the USA is clean. the pump is a cheap piece of crap. buy a ram Cummins. good luck.
That sounds about right for Grand Design not standing behind their products. We are going through about the some issues with Keystone. We are tired of these lemons.
Maybe Grand Designs owners need to do like the farmers and Truckers. All drive to the factory, encircle it and refuse to leave until your issues are addressed. Live stream the process to youtube and the media. You have all paid for warrenty in the purchase price. You also all have the right to reasonably expect proper engineering. and design.
Per the frame issues applies to all RVs with Lipbert frames you can file a recall notice go to the NHTSA file for a Recall spread this. Once a VIN is on notice and others follow the manufactures will have to no choice but to fix. The NTSHA has an easy to file process just enter the VIN and report this issue. Both Lipbert and the RV manufactures will have to comply and give over their specs and data to the NHTSA for review.
Time for legal advice. Your rig should be lemon law’ed Geoff. Maybe a class action lawsuit if they will not replace your rig. Now I am seriously concerned about them repairing our frame flex. -Pete
Many things are in motion, yes, be concerned and take many notes and film all you can. Tell them up front you want to see pictures of all work prior to them putting it all back together. I asked for Pictures and got a few but not as many to show all the work they claimed to have done. Had I received pictures, I would have never left the service shop because they clearly did not fix what they said they did.
I was ready to pull the trigger on a GD Imagine 3100RD. But after watching yours and other GD owner's videos RE frame flex and a plethora of other shoddy workmanship issues, I'm SO glad I waited to purchase. And then, as though it were manna from heaven, Brinkley descended from the clouds enveloped in golden light and well.....Grand Design who? Gimme shelter @BrinkleyRV!
@@MyBucketListDay We went to the Tampa Super RV show specifically to look at the new Brinkley travel trailer, but decided it was not the floor plan we are hoping for. BUT! We were assured that there are more TT floor plans coming down the pike so we're waiting for those to come out. Then we'll buy. If it's not Brinkley, it's not going to be anything. That's how dead-set I am on buying a Brinkley.
@@MyBucketListDay By the way, I'm not sure a class action suit will be most helpful to you and others who are experiencing the same flex frame issues. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the only ones who benefit from class action suits are the lawyers. The goal for owners is to have the frames fixed *properly* and at the manufacturing company's expense, not the poor owner who purchased the RV in good faith, and the only way I can see that happening is if you take the issue to the NHTSA and encourage others to do the same. The NHTSA can and will push the manufacturers for recalls when customers report the same issues and if successful, that is how you can receive satisfaction.
I would sue the crap out of that company, what a joke their quality or lack of quality is. I hope your videos get millions of views, and nobody buys their pieces of crap. Thanks for letting us know these companies are not worth supporting
You come across as a gentleman and a very kind, down to earth guy. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with us. I could purchased an rv but have decided against it based on the negatively.
GD is a big company , your only choice is to hire an RV lawyer who specializes in this type of case, big business will only start to take you serious, if you start action and if it comes to that they may in the end not let you tell us about your outcome as they will make you sign a non disclosure agreement , they don’t like lawyers, because they know you are now serious, also add in the settlement , suffering from stress and duress during all these issues, it’s very hard for big business to establish a cost on your health
My wife and I are in the market for a 5th wheel toy hauler. We liked the model you have & almost bought one in the fall of ‘23 & with all we have been hearing our minds have changed. We will be looking into other brands that are custom built and manufacture their own frames. We wish you all the best and pray this company steps up to the plate.
Sorry Jeff, that you have to go through this. Good luck. It's hard to say what I would do, sounds like your doing it the only you can. Getting other people that have had the same experience.
Curious to see your weights. Usually full timers carry a lot of xtra weight and with the expansive solar equipment up front as well as a generator u could be overloading your pin
Actually, I weighed everything prior to installing and we only added 187Lb's with all the Victron and batteries, and then another 60Lb's with wiring and battery frame. We removed the lead acid batteries and the factory inverter that weighs 112Lb's, so our net add in weight was only 135Lb's
Class action. We purchased a 2023 Solitude this past spring and ar terrified on what lies ahead. It already leaks like a sieve and is headed to GD for repairs.
Just got my 2023 grand design TT back from some "warranty " work. One of the things we had issues with was that the trailer brakes were not adjusted and did not engaged at all. This happened on 2 of my trucks, one brand new. It wasn't an issue with the truck. They refused to pay for a simple break adjustment to eliminate a potentially dangerous issue. I'm not especially happy with their "warranty" or the dealership.
Those welds are terrible - why wouldn’t grand designs bring in a welder from the frame/ chassis vendor? They obviously don’t have welders in house. I could make better welds and I took welding 40 yrs ago in HS. Too cold
Wow! I'm so sorry you and many others are having all these issues with poorly designed frames. I had no idea anything like this was happening, I'm very new to RV's and just now learning of the problems.
The CP4 is complete trash and there are no excuses for it. Ford is stuck with it because they built the motor to only accept that pump. The pump design is a complete failure and should not be used in anything. Low sulfur diesel is a bad excuse. American vehicles need to have fuel systems that are able to use it since it is the only fuel available. Other diesel fuel pumps run forever and are just fine…
Since all frames are made by Lippert by the specs provided by the manufacturer, Lippert is also responsible for the crappy workmanship and materials. Our Keystone Alpine 3790FK frame twisted at the axles in less than 5 months and they refused to honor the 3 year structural warranty. Love my Alliance Paradigm!
I have a BAL frame on my 5th wheel. From what I've seen it's a much better design. Especially the axle hangers. They are beefy and won't bend like the Lippert setups.
Proving the weight issue is going to be hard to do. They will say you are removing items before weighing, then reloading when in transit. Any scale videos probably aren't going to do any good. By now their game plan with their attorney has been fine tuned to cut you off at every step. Class action may be the only way to go.
I had a new 2019 Grand Design, Reflection in 2018. It was poorly engineered, shoddily assembled, with poor customer service. They only respond to owners with large social media followings. It was problem after problem and customer service basically told be to take a hike. I got rid of it 3 years later and it was the best thing I could have done. My recommendation is to hire an attorney. It's a safety issue. At some point, one of their products will fall apart on the highway and take a life.
So sorry you are having these issues. Sounds as if you are on to something here, and once the measurements are made, and getting an accurate expert assessment, then you possibly need legal assistance! Wish you well!
I was looking for a momentum toy hauler and stumbled across this video and have since watched a few more. Thanks for showing this. Just saved me 100k. I wouldn’t have one if you gave it to me.
Time for a large group of people to see your lawyers and start up a class action lawsuit asap. Yes the lawyers will cost you money at first. The longer people leave this, the more dangerous your units will become from all there garbage equipment they supplied you with. I can see this being the end of Grand Designs in 3 years.
I'm not defending the RV manufacturers by saying this but having a rigid hitch attached to a rigid pin box transfers a lot of shock to the towed vehicle. I researched for months on hitches and decided on the Hensley TrailerSaver 5th wheel hitch. Like you, I have a F450 and I knew I wanted to isolate the stiff ride from our new 5th wheel camper. It does an amazing job at doing just that.
I'm not a 5th wheel owner, and yes, it's easy to armchair quarterback, but in reading the RV forums an air ride hitch like a BD5 seems to be a critical choice component. A king pin connection does not grant a carte blanche hitch selection.
Wow! I would hate to do it but I would hire a good attorney and file a law suit (class action even). We pay too much for the poor craftsmanship that we get. I realize we don't have to buy a travel trailer/5th wheel but a manufacturer shouldn't be able to just decide when they wish to stop warranty coverage because they can't fix it or fix it right. They make such a huge profit. I used to own one but am now with another manufacturer and have my fingers crossed that I don't have major issues. Look forward to the updates.
You’re in a difficult position that’s for sure. I don’t think this is going to get any better with GD, and as an honest person it would be next to impossible with those problems to sell by owner. If it was me, I think I’d take it to the nearest GD dealer and trade it in for another brand.
That is an option, The issue I have with that idea, they get away with poor quality and not standing behind their workmanship. I want them to change their way so others don't have to go through what I have to. Not to mention the financial loss I have to swallow.
My local RV dealer has GD products marked down 50% to 60%......lot full of junk.....which all RV's are, they come from factory ready to start falling apart.
I would contact the National Traffic Safety Bureau and make them aware of the unsafe products on the highway. Nothing gets a companies attention like a NTSB mandated recall.
I was part of a class action when computer screens were deceptively advertised and won so I would reach out and try to find grand design owners like you. Maybe you can find a marketing company to get a list of owners. It's worth a try . Good luck.
We hired an attorney do deal with our issues. Different trailer manufacture but Lippert frame and axels. They told us, and had us sign the warranty papers for Dexter ("High Quality Axels") and that was with the price was higher. Axels were Lippert and the wheels were not welded on to the axel straight. The problems went up from there. :( Our court date is in May and we are asking them to but it back. We'll see what happens.
I'm pretty sure I know what you're planning. It's a tough battle with these rv companies and they way they have the warranty contracts written with about every loophole to void it if they need. And certain laws that apply to Car repairs are almost usually impossible to pursue on trailers because of the way most states and the federal government have the consumer laws written. I think I'd keep trying to do the thing you're doing but honestly if it was mine, I'd get a lippert certified welder or lippert themselves to weld the frame properly. I am curious about the loaded weight and how it's distributing over the king pin and axles because of what's going on. I personally wish you luck with this. You should get your story in with some other RV you tubers like Liz Amazing What ever you do I'm sure you'll probably have to come out of.pocket to make this fixed the right way. I fear The frame needs to be upgraded and reinforced in a way warranty wouldn't do. Good luck man, I've been following this story and I genuinely want you to succeed and live that bucket list life.
If it is covered under warranty by age then there is no question in my mind i would be doing the same as you. I have read between the lines and i know you are doing EXACTLY what i would do. Lawyer up and full refund plus time, expenses and loss of emotional/ health.
yea those welds are bad ive been a welder for a long time and they wonder way there frames are coming apart if that the kind of work I would get a good lawyer and sue the hell of them but its leppert who built the frame but grand design engineered it
Take to to a truck frame straightener, sister in welded steel to strengthen the frame to control the extreme flexing going on. Park it, sell it as repaired to someone willing to accept the risk, and sue for your losses, including a prayer for treble damages to punish them for such a shoddy product. Not a lawyer but what I'd do.
My 2022 Forest River 5th wheel has had multiple issues with electrical, structural, plumbing and slides. It spent 1023 days in the shop in the first year and 99 second year. Still having issues so, Lemon Lawyer is handling it. Any RV built in late 2019 thru mid 2022 are all junk and falling apart.
I’m right there fighting Forest River. They are disgusting. Any lawyers or legal info you can pass along please do. They have decided to keep 5k in reimbursements unless I sign a waiver of liability and shut up. I passed on that one so the fight continues.
Lucky you dont have a brand new ford...the engineers decided that it would be better to drive the high pressure pump with the camshaft...so when they fail it locks up the engine... bending all the pushrods when the valves slam into the top of the pistons which bends them also but wait it gets better...the crank gear sprocket is pressed onto the crank which isn't held in position with a keyway so it also spins on the crank when everything else crashes into each other...damn near total rebuild at that point since you can no longer time the engine with that crank gear out of time😂
A lesson I learned dealing with rental property. Life is short, do not dwell, cut losses and move forward. Do you want 18 more months of stress? Sell through a salvage company like Copart and move on with life. You are a good person. I wish you the best.
They simply owe you a new RV. End of story. In the meantime maybe the insurance company can call it totalled and replace the RV and let them go after Grand Design. Because it is essentially totalled and they admitted fault by trying to fix it.
@@MyBucketListDay I wish you the best and hopefully you have a lawyer working with you on it. Lemon law also comes to mind. The manufacturer would be forced to buy it back from you so you can go get another one.
Class action lawsuit, clearly, after watching so many videos from other rv owners with frame issues like yours. Grand Design is clearly a disreputable company that no one should buy from, ever again. What a horrific nightmare! So sorry for everything you're having to go through!
I will say, I do notice that a LOT of these failures happen on these 45' Momentums that owners have loaded up the front end with big solar/big batteries systems. I believe owners are NOT overweight, but the frames were not designed/constructed to handle how heavy owners are making the nose of the fifth wheel. -------- Grand Design spent 20 years building a great reputation and destroyed it in one year. If I were CEO, we would stop production of any new large momentums until the frame was completely reengineered. At the same time, they need to develop a specific engineered solution to all units already on the road. They need to set up AND TRAIN STAFF to retrofit this solution and have it available to all units no matter how old they are. This would be an investment in Grand Designs future marketing/sales. They COULD have come out looking like heros. Instead, their name is now mud. We were close to buying a Grand Design SPECIFICALLY because of how they had always taken care of their customers. -------- OH, and I would document everything, grab all past weight scale receipts you have and hire one of those mad dog crazy screaming lawyers on TV.
You may want to consider the disaster prevention kit. My impression is that when the CP4 goes bad Ford is most likely to say it is from bad/contaminated fuel and that is not covered under warranty. Then you are on the hook for repair costs around the 16k mark. At least with the disaster prevention kit the only thing that needs to be replaced is the pump which is considerably less. The kit should not void the warranty because essentially it is adding an additional filter in the fuel system. S&S could explain it better. Also, they cover the DCR pump with a 2 year warranty if I remember correctly.
Thanks for the video. Have you weighed the RV and truck and then the truck alone to get actual pin weight? With all those batteries and inverters in the front bay you’ve added a lot of weight on the uprights of the upper deck. Just curious. I own a 2020 Momentum that had some upper deck flex. They sent an SRT to my location in NM (one happened to be fairly close at the time to remove the bulkhead and inspect. He put larger lag screws in the wall anchors from inside along the floor, and found a small crack in the door side sill plate. Made sure it was safe to tow. I then took it to the Grand Design factory service center (it did take about 3 months for an appt). They fixed all aspects of it, pin box, sill plates replaced, gussets added, crossmembers replaced, wall anchors secured. It’s been good, solid. They covered all of it under structural warranty. The service took 8 days. Like you, I’m full time. Not sure how much you travel but I have nearly 40K miles on my coach. I also had Morryde Independent suspension installed when the coach was two years old. Have you thought about that since you’re full time? Grand Design has stood behind every issue I’ve had, including some minor ones in my first year of ownership.
I too was thinking while watching this video, wow look at all those batteries, inverter’s and Onan generator. Wonder what else is packed on the chassis area? Everything has a stress point even bridges come apart! I’ve seen these SRT people in action and they are committed to their craft. I am waiting to see the well choreographed video.
Time to Lawyer up...we have friends in Canada that ran into some similar situations with GD with the piss poor quality and workmanship. Once GD were contacted by their lawyer, (and with the threat of going viral on Social Media) their tack and tone immediately changed. They have since sent Repair Teams up to Canada to fix stuff...more to come.
Wow, I've had four Battleborn batteries in our coach now for a couple of years, and never had an issue, so it was sure nice to hear they went over and beyond for you! Any time I had a question, they were good at getting back to me with an explanation, so KUDOS to Battleborn Lithium batteries! As for what I might do, it would be to fix, sell and try a Brinkley perhaps, or one of the other choices that would put a smile on your face!
I would be sick if I had the problems you’re having. Have you thought of finding a law firm that does class action suits? I bet you could gather plenty of prospects that would join you? It’s so sad this happens with such expensive purchases
Your videos are the reason I refuse to buy a Grand Design. Once my current RV is paid off/sold/ or destroyed… I’ll never buy another RV again. Ownership of an RV really opened my eyes. It’s as if they’re all built in China. Piss poor quality at best and it only gets worse from there.
I think this thing with frame flex and extreme poor quality started in COVID. We have a 2016 Open Range Light 5th wheel and have had zero problems with it, so far. We've been on several months long, across America trips, and many local area trips but are not full timers. Could fail this year, who knows. But all RVs are not bad.
I don't envy your situation in the least with this trailer but also not surprised that its happening due to the theme of larger trailers often built with an under engineered frame strength. About that tire that cupped, while it could be a tire issue I am far more willing to bet its a combination of alignment and the lacking of the suspension design. Unless I missed seeing them, does this trailer have any shocks on the suspension ?. When a tire has no shock to help control the axles movement, tires tend to act somewhat like a person dribbling a basket ball and the roads surface contributes greatly to that motion getting going. A tire literally bouncing down the road has a lot higher chance of starting to wear weird and once that starts it just compounds itself.
I'm looking to go off grid in an RV. I am weight limited to 5K to 6K towing capacity. there are heavy restrictions in that size and type of RV. The costs involved are insane! Looking at good, nice Tents.
Your frame issue is a design flaw. The frames used for your, I assume 42 foot plus rigg, is the same frame support members sizes used in all models of Grand Designs from the shortest, lightest, 5th wheel to the longest, heaviest. Just a little longer and maybe with a few more cross members. But essentially the same frame components. The design of a 5th wheel frame is such that the forces created by the bumps in the road are highest at the points at the start, or beginning of the welds where the upper platform connects to the lower platform. And where the frame cantilevers over the axles. A lot on constant bending / flex. Over time and use the welds begin to "unzip" shall we say. Think of it in simpler terms. When you see a highway bridge you will notice where the steel is over a pier in the center of the highway the steel is thicker and more reinforced. That's where all the weight is sitting. Your axles are no different. The biggest portion of the RV's weight sits right over your axils. The whole back half of you RV has no support. It is like a big springboard. The heavier the RV the greater this effect. The frame components should have been up-sized or reinforced as the riggs got bigger. They are not because of the added weight. So Grand Designs is actually right, it is overweight, and they can't fix it. But is their design, so if they have a structural warranty, they are responsible. There is a limit to size and weight you can go without respacing your axles. Truckers do this all the time. Have fun.
Regarding the CP4 pump . The pump is just a poor design plain and simple. Fuel quality for sure is a factor in pump failure . If the dealer told you your whole truck warranty would be void if you put in a different fuel pump then he is NOT being truthfull with you . That’s not how it works.
I own a grand design solitude and have for about 6 years. Last year at the Houston rv show we almost upgraded to the 390rk until I seen the frame issues on them. This is sad that we can’t spend $100,000.00 plus and have to worry about this. Maybe we need to let the Chinese start building them.
No, we just need minimum requirements for all trailers on the road so they remain safe, just like they do for 18 wheelers trailers. They are build to carry heavy loads for years.
So sorry to hear that Grand Design and Winnebago will not stand behind their work. I believe this is directly due to Winnebago owning them. About 8 years back we had a Winnebago Class A that had many issues. Not only did they not stand behind their product but they also never returned any of our calls for over a month and that was with many tries. We then bought a Tiffin Class A and now we own an Alliance Valor 40V13. I believe that these large companies like Winnebago and Thor are the reason that many issues are happening. They want to get these units out as fast as possible and wash their hands of any major issues. With you being full time it also puts stress on you and the family since your safety is a major concern while traveling. It’s a shame that you now have to seek legal and professional assistance just to prove your case showing your RV isn’t over weight and that their work was subpar. Hopefully once this gets underway they get this resolved in your favor. I would hope that they have to buy this back from you and that you can get something else without these issues that come from these large companies that continue to ruin the reputation of companies like Grand Design. By the way we really enjoy your videos.
Another grand design frame flex failure. Maybe contact big truck big rv as he's collecting data. Same with paving new paths. They've got some groups forming on this seemingly common grand design issue.
Agree with the lawyer and go after GD. Amsoil 4 in one diesel additive for the truck. I use it every tank full. Check it out before you make your decision.
Good luck, seems like a long road ahead for you sir. I wish you the best of luck dealing with this nightmare and lemon. I wonder what a mechanical engineer would think of the frame deviation and broken welds. Document it like a crime scene with photos and have experts look at the defects. Disappointing to hear the manufacturer is not standing behind their product and their repairs. You would expect more integrity from an American manufacturer. You are taking this situation with more grace than I would be able to. I know what fifth wheel I won't be buying in the future because of your experience.
@@MyBucketListDay All RV’s have their issues, even Brinkley! There’s a major recall instituted by NHTSA for the hubs separating from the axle tubes. Brinkley utilizes Lippert frames and axles just as Grand Design uses. RVIA standards for RV’s are failing the consumers due to the lack of independent regulatory oversight! Most RV Dealerships have you sign away most of your consumer rights at the moment of the purchase. Ever looked closely at the purchase documents you signed? For this reason, do not ever buy new RV’s from a dealer!
Not sure where you heard those mods voids your warranty, but that is only true if the mod contributes or causes a failure. Additionally, it's on the mfg to demonstrate your aftermarket part caused the problem (federal law). Use the disaster prevention kit and a fuel additive. The CP4 will be fine if it gets lubricated with a good additive (like Hot Shots).
We’ve been traveling full time in our 2020 373fb for the past four years. So far, we have not experienced any frame issues (knock on wood). It scares me to death every time I watch a frame issue video. It matters not who the rv manufacturer is, the frames are all built by lippert. I have had extensive experience in manufacturing. So why do some people have no issues, (that they know of), and other people have nightmare experiences such as yours, (which I hope are rare.) Even if lippert uses cheap chinese steel, they use the same steel in all their frames, and yet some have problems, and others don’t. So if all the frames use the same engineering, and use the same cheap chinese steel the only variable left is the individual that welded the frame. How much experience does this individual have? Are they Certified? Or are they hiring any knucklehead off the street to do these critical welds? The frame design should take into account a reasonable percentage safety margin for overweight and poor road conditions. When you buy a new pickup truck, it doesn’t fall apart if you hit a pothole or you exceed your weight rating. I really hate to say this, but maybe there needs to be federal engineering and construction standards for rv chassis, if the rv industry can’t be trusted to regulate their own standards.
Hey Paul, the main reason is Lippert builds to the manufacture specs. In this case GD specified my frame be built a certain way and not using the right size and gage steel and to save money used less structural supports than Lippert suggested. This is why GD is seeing more of these issues than other brands using Lippert.
@@MyBucketListDay thanks for that clarification. Makes me question the qualifications of Grand Designs Engineers. If someone engineers a chassis that falls apart, are they an engineer?
you mentioned in this video that you’re going to weigh your RV “have you not done that before ? Ever? Have you never weighed anything that you brought into the RV? have you not weighed every single thing that you put into that RV ? For the last 45 or 50 years? I’ve always had a scale by the steps whenever anything was brought into my RVs. I weighed everything, most people do not do that. I’ve always done that Ive owned in excess of 27 RVs 17 of them fifth wheels I have never ever had an issue with tires, frame, or my hitch assembly, nothing whenever I have friends or newbies that I know that are buying their first RV I always suggest to them that they weigh everything, nope, falls on deaf ears, till the tire wear and blowouts start. One time during a camparama, w 20 of us, one of them had his RV was significantly overweight, by 1147 pounds, a scale will give you a total weight, a scale, a pen and pad will give you a running total weight. I’d suggest you bring your Rv to a heavy duty truck shop w a frame machine, pay them to check it out, open it up. It’s much more ammunition for you instead of novices playing Dr. trying to convince a judge of your novice determination versus a pro. Good luck
John Deere did a study many years ago that found adding even 1% biodiesel to Jet A (which has a very low lubricity) brought it up to the same lubricity as standard diesel fuel. So if you have biodiesel available that can also be used as an effective lubricity additive.
If there are enough owners with the weld problems, there may be the possibility of a class action lawsuit against Grand Design. With the cost of these units, quality should be their first priority.
Yes, I'm asking all who do to email me directly. MyBucketListDay!gmail.com
@@MyBucketListDay also review case law. Every successful class settlement results in precedent setting.
Always somebodys answer, sue them, class action lawsuit. Good luck with that, GD has deep pockets and will tie this up in court for years. and you will spend thousands on lawyers. You will have to prove without a doubt it was their fault, they are already mentioning overweight. And if you scale it now and it's ok they will still say you overloaded it at some point. Time to sell the garbage and move on.
The bad thing about class action suits is, the lawyers get $546,000,000 and each plaintiff gets a coupon for $3 off their next purchase of a Grand Design product.
My thoughts exactly, the more the merrier!
I think the RV manufacturers have come to the conclusion that it is not in their best financial interests to warranty the junque they manufacture. Plus, if you say anything negative in a public way, you become persona non grata instantly. Where was the number for that attorney???
LOL, right. Stay tuned
I hope and Pray that everything will work out in your favor 🙏. You all need to get together and get a Great lawyer
We had a Grand Design it was cheap garbage. The said they wouldn't honor the warranty after 9 days when it flooded. They lied to us and it was a horrible experience. Never again! Check recalls and class action lawsuits these things are dangerous!
Sue the shit out of them. Their product is garbage. You’re not the only one dealing with this. You all need to get together and go after Grand Design.
They should be force to have the same warranty as a car. It doesn’t matter what you have all new ones are junk
Geoff, after you weigh and measure your trailer maybe take it to a certified weld shop to get their opinion, on the repairs previously made and the framing
This is the plan, have you been listening to my Phone Calls?? LOL
As a Certified RV Tech I have considerable hands on experience with RV's and Horse Trailers. The difference in robustness in chassis is striking and in the cases I've been asked to comment on it is clear that chassis flexion is the cause of many RV chassis failures.
Yes it is.
how would you suggest these folks form a united front and proceed to get some justice and stop the cheap builds?
@@re7206 Stop buying them.
Here in the PNW a lot of us are buying horse trailers with living quarters and converting them into toy haulers for our UTV’s since regular toy haulers are such junk and can’t handle leaving paved roads. A used horse trailer is very cheap and much stronger built then factory toy haulers.
And now it’s your responsibility to spread the word about fuel additives. I HIGHLY recommend Hot Shot Every Day Diesel. It’s high quality and can be found in most auto stores and definitely at Tractor supply. It’s not that expensive either. It can also be mixed with their anti gel products if you ever decide to travel in cold climates. ❤❤❤ We got you brother !
Yes, Hot Shot in on the top 2 of my list.
It’s not a fuel additive issue it’s a horrible design of the CP4 issue. It’s complete junk and Ford is the only one still putting them in new trucks
@@Billybob50119 It’s actually a great design, unfortunately it’s just meant to run on high sulfur fuel which we do not have here in the US. In Germany they have practically NO issues with them because of the high lubricity of their fuel. So just call it what it is…..a great design but is being improperly implemented by American truck manufacturers. Just run a good fuel additive, drain the separator monthly and change both filters every other oil change.
hot shot LX4 LUBRICITY EXTREME is a premium lubricity additive for Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD)
So sorry to hear. I absolutely avoided GD after watching so many issues. I just bought a 2024 Montana instead.
Good for you
Don’t research Montana issues. They are even worse…
@@Billybob50119 whatever you need to make yourself feel better.
@@gsolo328every rv manufactures are building junk....period
@@gsolo328hope it all works out for you... But there are people in the comments going through the same thing with Keystone
For some reason this big rv community never got together to have a petition to make the rv builders and dealers get regulated. Quality, warranty, service and so on
Boy I have seen a lot of Grand Design videos of basically junk RV's and not backing their products!
We appreciate your diligence keeping the community posted. We were going to pull the trigger on a momentum
In Jan2024, and now we will not . I have seen way too many issues and GD not standing behind their product. I know all manufacturers can have issues , but this is ridiculous. Stand strong, prayers for you.
Yes, I would look at another Brand. I have to say, in all that I've learned the best is the Brinkley. Do yourself a favor and go look at them closely...
@@MyBucketListDay Brinkley is taking a page out of the GD page for getting influencers to do reviews and it won't be too long before many are towing them too. I just hope their end product once fully scaled is as good as it looks. I have visited the New Horizens factory and use them as a point of reference for others to strive towards.
@@dankarau2307 NH would be the standard for sure, if you have the means and the time to wait for one i think they should be right at the top of anyone's list.
I dug around a LOT of RV's before we pulled the trigger and NH was on the list for sure. We ended up not buying one because we could not wait 2 years to get it. We ended up having DRV do a custom build for us and we literally pick it up tomorrow. We toured a bunch of factories and of all the brands we toured in the Elkhart area DRV and Riverstone were the only two i considered. The frame alone on a DRV or a Riverstone are so far beyond what GD and others put under their rigs. They also don't use chip board floors and roofs and no MDF in cabinets etc. Being able to see under the covers the quality differences were staggering.
If anyone is going to buy a rig for full timer living they absolutely should do a factory tour to see how these things are made. I will say that on some of the tours i did they only showed specific things, i think the things they wanted you to see. DRV specifically let me see everything i wanted, let me take a real good look at every stage of construction instead of just a passing glance and even had the guys making the RVs' on the line address specific questions i had. Seemed to me like they had nothing they wanted to hide from a prospective customer which is one of the reasons i pick up a JX450 tomorrow.
@@dankarau2307good point, let’s hope they stay above the rest .
@dankarau2307 these were going to be my exact thoughts as well. If this guy had a bigger subscribe list close to less junk more journey or changing lanes, grand design would be doing more for him. However, this is what you get for buying products from being aw struck by UA-cam influencers😊
I think I would definitely hire a lawyer and go after Grand design! I can actually say my Forest River toy hauler i bought in 2015 has held up really good!
Glad to hear your has held up... Safe travels
So has our 2013 keystone hideout. Zero issues
Forest River i had to throw the keys to them.
It was a complete piece of junk. I walked away from it and it cost me
big time but i just bit the bullet.
I did not read every comment so this may have been mentioned. It will likely/ be an arduous process but I’d start with creating a list of all owners with this issue. By creating a class and with subpoena power, this list should be easy to obtain. Once you have the class you’ll file in court in Indiana. You should be able to find an attorney who does this stuff. Then you wait it out. My heart goes out to you because you can’t really live in your rig unless you simply park it. I have been in two of these cases as a complainant so I’ve a vague idea how it works. It takes patience and commitment but you have them by the you know what and there’s an army of disgruntled folks behind you. Go get them. So glad we went with Brinkley!
I'm also glad you went with Brinkley. I said you would be happy with that decision. You are right, a long process...
@@MyBucketListDay and I just saw the newest small Z the 3110. It takes the north south bed from the 2900 and the walk through bath with the hall closet. All reasons I rejected the 3100. And it add a bunk house with a door and loads of storage plus a bigger theater sofa and a better fold out bed if needed with a removable dinette. We both snore and hubby has frequent bouts of insomnia plus needing a bathroom so we do not share a bed. This model will give him his own bed and eliminate sofa. And his own tv. Perfect.
Better check on your Brinkley…
Major recall for wheel breaking off on certain models
GD is trading repairs for ndas.
Man I feel for you. I would say do everything you need to do legally to get this resolved. Years ago I had issues with a Dodge 1500 extended cab truck purchased new from a local dealer.After working with them multiple times to get the issues resolved, I made the decision to take a loss and trade it off for another brand vehicle. The loss stung for quite some time. I just mentally couldn't stand dealing with it. Best of luck. I'll be watching and rooting for you.
A few have suggested that, but I'm not ready to take the financial hit. GD should take the majority of it.
with so many having issues a class action lawsuit might be a method to get things fixed
Lawyer Up!!!! Get ALL of the AMMO you can, get everyone that has had problems with their Grand Design RV's and do a Class Action Mass Tort Litigation Lawsuit against GD!
Could be happening, can't confirm
We first saw a Grand Design trailer at a show in 2015 and were very impressed with the quality. Since they sold out to Winnebago they've turned into poor quality like most towable RVs. There's only a few companies I would consider buying and Grand Design is certainly not one of them anymore.
Yep this is what everyone is saying. Go look at the Brinkley, your going to want to buy one right away.
Take all ur problems and documents,go to better business bearu in every state you have had dealings with GD,also go to the attorney General in your state and file a complaint and it never hurts to get your state representative involved,you would be surprised how these people can help u if have a legitimate proublem,and u do
Sorry about all the problems, one thing to think about now is that if that king pin area completely fails and causes an accident, you have already documented prior knowledge of the damage. Be careful driving that thing around now. Not a matter of IF it fails but when. good luck
Yes, that is an issue.
I bought a grand design 303 in 2021 because of their supposed quality. It’s a smaller 5th wheel, just hoping the problem is not as prevalent.
I just want to thank you for taking the time to share your experiences and outcomes.
I am personally in a battle with Forest River that is quite disgusting but I have a neighbor at the park I’m in with a brand new Grand Design. So much is wrong with it they have had to cancel plans and so much more. Looks like the sale of the company changed the great reputation they DID have. It is pathetic what these companies are doing.
Agree, they are not what they used to be...
i know people in California with the same frame problems. they hired an attorney to have their 5th wheels lemon lawed. they all got their money and expenses back. i would think the rest of the country should be the same. as far as your fuel pump, it is not the fuel. it is a poorly designed pump. additives will not help. most fuel in the USA is clean. the pump is a cheap piece of crap. buy a ram Cummins. good luck.
That sounds about right for Grand Design not standing behind their products. We are going through about the some issues with Keystone. We are tired of these lemons.
Send me an email, I have something going. MyBucketListDay@gmail.com
Maybe Grand Designs owners need to do like the farmers and Truckers. All drive to the factory, encircle it and refuse to leave until your issues are addressed. Live stream the process to youtube and the media.
You have all paid for warrenty in the purchase price. You also all have the right to reasonably expect proper engineering.
and design.
Per the frame issues applies to all RVs with Lipbert frames you can file a recall notice go to the NHTSA file for a Recall spread this. Once a VIN is on notice and others follow the manufactures will have to no choice but to fix. The NTSHA has an easy to file process just enter the VIN and report this issue. Both Lipbert and the RV manufactures will have to comply and give over their specs and data to the NHTSA for review.
Ok, I will try this and do a video on it.
Time for legal advice. Your rig should be lemon law’ed Geoff. Maybe a class action lawsuit if they will not replace your rig. Now I am seriously concerned about them repairing our frame flex. -Pete
Many things are in motion, yes, be concerned and take many notes and film all you can. Tell them up front you want to see pictures of all work prior to them putting it all back together. I asked for Pictures and got a few but not as many to show all the work they claimed to have done. Had I received pictures, I would have never left the service shop because they clearly did not fix what they said they did.
I was ready to pull the trigger on a GD Imagine 3100RD. But after watching yours and other GD owner's videos RE frame flex and a plethora of other shoddy workmanship issues, I'm SO glad I waited to purchase. And then, as though it were manna from heaven, Brinkley descended from the clouds enveloped in golden light and well.....Grand Design who? Gimme shelter @BrinkleyRV!
So did you buy a Brinkley??
@@MyBucketListDay We went to the Tampa Super RV show specifically to look at the new Brinkley travel trailer, but decided it was not the floor plan we are hoping for. BUT! We were assured that there are more TT floor plans coming down the pike so we're waiting for those to come out. Then we'll buy. If it's not Brinkley, it's not going to be anything. That's how dead-set I am on buying a Brinkley.
@@MyBucketListDay By the way, I'm not sure a class action suit will be most helpful to you and others who are experiencing the same flex frame issues. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the only ones who benefit from class action suits are the lawyers. The goal for owners is to have the frames fixed *properly* and at the manufacturing company's expense, not the poor owner who purchased the RV in good faith, and the only way I can see that happening is if you take the issue to the NHTSA and encourage others to do the same. The NHTSA can and will push the manufacturers for recalls when customers report the same issues and if successful, that is how you can receive satisfaction.
You look this up. USA has a law that says all aftermarket things cannot void warranty.Sure they will try and scare you but its against law
I would sue the crap out of that company, what a joke their quality or lack of quality is. I hope your videos get millions of views, and nobody buys their pieces of crap. Thanks for letting us know these companies are not worth supporting
As common place as these frame issues appear to be, I'd suggest it is a combination of poor/marginal design and shoddy manufacturing.
and a decision to cut costs at the expense of safety...
Unbelievable! I've heard SO many things about Grand Design and especially frame flex.
You and me both!
You come across as a gentleman and a very kind, down to earth guy. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with us. I could purchased an rv but have decided against it based on the negatively.
I appreciate that! But don't give up on the Idea. Go look at Brinkley RV, you will be impressed and the quality is outstanding.
GD is a big company , your only choice is to hire an RV lawyer who specializes in this type of case, big business will only start to take you serious, if you start action and if it comes to that they may in the end not let you tell us about your outcome as they will make you sign a non disclosure agreement , they don’t like lawyers, because they know you are now serious, also add in the settlement , suffering from stress and duress during all these issues, it’s very hard for big business to establish a cost on your health
Shame it has to come to this. If only a company would admit their errors and take responsibility of faulty products and repair work.
My wife and I are in the market for a 5th wheel toy hauler. We liked the model you have & almost bought one in the fall of ‘23 & with all we have been hearing our minds have changed. We will be looking into other brands that are custom built and manufacture their own frames.
We wish you all the best and pray this company steps up to the plate.
Thanks, but don't ignore the Brinkley Brand. They build an awesome and strong 5th wheel and Travel Trailer.
The problem is that when they switched to low sulfur diesel. Sulfur was a lubricant, that’s why you need a fuel additive to make up for it.
Court ... sue, for damages and or force them to buy it back .
Could happen, we will see
Sorry Jeff, that you have to go through this. Good luck. It's hard to say what I would do, sounds like your doing it the only you can. Getting other people that have had the same experience.
yes, sadly it's becoming a common problem...
Curious to see your weights. Usually full timers carry a lot of xtra weight and with the expansive solar equipment up front as well as a generator u could be overloading your pin
Actually, I weighed everything prior to installing and we only added 187Lb's with all the Victron and batteries, and then another 60Lb's with wiring and battery frame. We removed the lead acid batteries and the factory inverter that weighs 112Lb's, so our net add in weight was only 135Lb's
Class action. We purchased a 2023 Solitude this past spring and ar terrified on what lies ahead. It already leaks like a sieve and is headed to GD for repairs.
Good luck and document everything. Careful to trust all the repairs are done correctly.
That weld quality sucks.
Just got my 2023 grand design TT back from some "warranty " work. One of the things we had issues with was that the trailer brakes were not adjusted and did not engaged at all. This happened on 2 of my trucks, one brand new. It wasn't an issue with the truck. They refused to pay for a simple break adjustment to eliminate a potentially dangerous issue. I'm not especially happy with their "warranty" or the dealership.
Yes, warranty at the dealership is piss poor
warranty papers = bernie madoff papers
Those welds are terrible - why wouldn’t grand designs bring in a welder from the frame/ chassis vendor? They obviously don’t have welders in house. I could make better welds and I took welding 40 yrs ago in HS. Too cold
Wow! I'm so sorry you and many others are having all these issues with poorly designed frames. I had no idea anything like this was happening, I'm very new to RV's and just now learning of the problems.
I would contact Brinkley and see if they are interested. I would be done with grand design, that terrible
The CP4 is complete trash and there are no excuses for it. Ford is stuck with it because they built the motor to only accept that pump. The pump design is a complete failure and should not be used in anything. Low sulfur diesel is a bad excuse. American vehicles need to have fuel systems that are able to use it since it is the only fuel available. Other diesel fuel pumps run forever and are just fine…
You are correct.
All the the RV owners with these issues should drive their Rigs to The Grand design Manufacturer add demand (protest) they address this problem!!
Since all frames are made by Lippert by the specs provided by the manufacturer, Lippert is also responsible for the crappy workmanship and materials. Our Keystone Alpine 3790FK frame twisted at the axles in less than 5 months and they refused to honor the 3 year structural warranty. Love my Alliance Paradigm!
I have a BAL frame on my 5th wheel. From what I've seen it's a much better design. Especially the axle hangers. They are beefy and won't bend like the Lippert setups.
I wish I had something better, but here we are!
Yes, you are right they build to Manufacture specs.
Proving the weight issue is going to be hard to do. They will say you are removing items before weighing, then reloading when in transit. Any scale videos probably aren't going to do any good. By now their game plan with their attorney has been fine tuned to cut you off at every step. Class action may be the only way to go.
Its easy to prove the items on my RV during the weighing, I'm going to film it all.
I had a new 2019 Grand Design, Reflection in 2018. It was poorly engineered, shoddily assembled, with poor customer service. They only respond to owners with large social media followings. It was problem after problem and customer service basically told be to take a hike. I got rid of it 3 years later and it was the best thing I could have done. My recommendation is to hire an attorney. It's a safety issue. At some point, one of their products will fall apart on the highway and take a life.
Please email me so I can communicate with you directly about your experience. MybucketListDay@gmail.com
So sorry you are having these issues. Sounds as if you are on to something here, and once the measurements are made, and getting an accurate expert assessment, then you possibly need legal assistance! Wish you well!
I think I'm taking the proper steps. Documenting everything...
I have a DCR fuel pump recently put in my 2019. Strongly recommend.
Yes, I've heard good thing on that.
I was looking for a momentum toy hauler and stumbled across this video and have since watched a few more. Thanks for showing this. Just saved me 100k. I wouldn’t have one if you gave it to me.
Time for a large group of people to see your lawyers and start up a class action lawsuit asap. Yes the lawyers will cost you money at first. The longer people leave this, the more dangerous your units will become from all there garbage equipment they supplied you with.
I can see this being the end of Grand Designs in 3 years.
Could be!
Good welders don't come cheap. RV makers are probably using shop class grads to weld and paying them peanuts.
I'm not defending the RV manufacturers by saying this but having a rigid hitch attached to a rigid pin box transfers a lot of shock to the towed vehicle. I researched for months on hitches and decided on the Hensley TrailerSaver 5th wheel hitch. Like you, I have a F450 and I knew I wanted to isolate the stiff ride from our new 5th wheel camper. It does an amazing job at doing just that.
I hear what your saying, but it's the kingpin they installed at the factory, so they apparently designed for that kind of connection.
@@MyBucketListDay Yes but the factory goes el-cheapo on most things and they don't build things to last.
I'm not a 5th wheel owner, and yes, it's easy to armchair quarterback, but in reading the RV forums an air ride hitch like a BD5 seems to be a critical choice component. A king pin connection does not grant a carte blanche hitch selection.
Wow! I would hate to do it but I would hire a good attorney and file a law suit (class action even). We pay too much for the poor craftsmanship that we get. I realize we don't have to buy a travel trailer/5th wheel but a manufacturer shouldn't be able to just decide when they wish to stop warranty coverage because they can't fix it or fix it right. They make such a huge profit. I used to own one but am now with another manufacturer and have my fingers crossed that I don't have major issues. Look forward to the updates.
I just wish GD would do the right thing and take care of it. But we will see what happens!
You’re in a difficult position that’s for sure. I don’t think this is going to get any better with GD, and as an honest person it would be next to impossible with those problems to sell by owner. If it was me, I think I’d take it to the nearest GD dealer and trade it in for another brand.
That is an option, The issue I have with that idea, they get away with poor quality and not standing behind their workmanship. I want them to change their way so others don't have to go through what I have to. Not to mention the financial loss I have to swallow.
My local RV dealer has GD products marked down 50% to 60%......lot full of junk.....which all RV's are, they come from factory ready to start falling apart.
I would contact the National Traffic Safety Bureau and make them aware of the unsafe products on the highway. Nothing gets a companies attention like a NTSB mandated recall.
In the works
I was part of a class action when computer screens were deceptively advertised and won so I would reach out and try to find grand design owners like you. Maybe you can find a marketing company to get a list of owners. It's worth a try . Good luck.
We hired an attorney do deal with our issues. Different trailer manufacture but Lippert frame and axels. They told us, and had us sign the warranty papers for Dexter ("High Quality Axels") and that was with the price was higher. Axels were Lippert and the wheels were not welded on to the axel straight. The problems went up from there. :( Our court date is in May and we are asking them to but it back. We'll see what happens.
I'm pretty sure I know what you're planning. It's a tough battle with these rv companies and they way they have the warranty contracts written with about every loophole to void it if they need. And certain laws that apply to Car repairs are almost usually impossible to pursue on trailers because of the way most states and the federal government have the consumer laws written.
I think I'd keep trying to do the thing you're doing but honestly if it was mine, I'd get a lippert certified welder or lippert themselves to weld the frame properly. I am curious about the loaded weight and how it's distributing over the king pin and axles because of what's going on. I personally wish you luck with this. You should get your story in with some other RV you tubers like Liz Amazing
What ever you do I'm sure you'll probably have to come out of.pocket to make this fixed the right way. I fear The frame needs to be upgraded and reinforced in a way warranty wouldn't do. Good luck man, I've been following this story and I genuinely want you to succeed and live that bucket list life.
Thanks Mike, I appreciate the words of encouragement. Its going to be a long road...
We had these very same issues with our 2021 399TH. It was repaired by GD back in Elkhart; however, I'm not convinced that we're out of the woods yet.
Class action there are a lot of people having these problems
If you are a fighter, it's time to lawyer up. If you don't want the aggravation, trade it in for a Brinkley and call it a day.
Well, I'm a fighter!
So sorry for your situation I have been looking at buying a grand design you made my mind up
Glad to hear your going a different direction. May I sugest looking at the Brinkley. You won't be disappointed. Great product with high quality.
If it is covered under warranty by age then there is no question in my mind i would be doing the same as you. I have read between the lines and i know you are doing EXACTLY what i would do. Lawyer up and full refund plus time, expenses and loss of emotional/ health.
yea those welds are bad ive been a welder for a long time and they wonder way there frames are coming apart if that the kind of work I would get a good lawyer and sue the hell of them but its leppert who built the frame but grand design engineered it
Take to to a truck frame straightener, sister in welded steel to strengthen the frame to control the extreme flexing going on. Park it, sell it as repaired to someone willing to accept the risk, and sue for your losses, including a prayer for treble damages to punish them for such a shoddy product. Not a lawyer but what I'd do.
Thanks for the comments. Can't sell is the way it sits. I would never put this on anyone else.
My 2022 Forest River 5th wheel has had multiple issues with electrical, structural, plumbing and slides. It spent 1023 days in the shop in the first year and 99 second year. Still having issues so, Lemon Lawyer is handling it. Any RV built in late 2019 thru mid 2022 are all junk and falling apart.
I’m right there fighting Forest River. They are disgusting. Any lawyers or legal info you can pass along please do. They have decided to keep 5k in reimbursements unless I sign a waiver of liability and shut up. I passed on that one so the fight continues.
Who is the lawyer your using? Please email me directly at MyBucketListDay@gmail.com
Lucky you dont have a brand new ford...the engineers decided that it would be better to drive the high pressure pump with the camshaft...so when they fail it locks up the engine... bending all the pushrods when the valves slam into the top of the pistons which bends them also but wait it gets better...the crank gear sprocket is pressed onto the crank which isn't held in position with a keyway so it also spins on the crank when everything else crashes into each other...damn near total rebuild at that point since you can no longer time the engine with that crank gear out of time😂
A lesson I learned dealing with rental property. Life is short, do not dwell, cut losses and move forward. Do you want 18 more months of stress? Sell through a salvage company like Copart and move on with life. You are a good person. I wish you the best.
Thanks
They simply owe you a new RV. End of story.
In the meantime maybe the insurance company can call it totalled and replace the RV and let them go after Grand Design.
Because it is essentially totalled and they admitted fault by trying to fix it.
This is one angle?
@@MyBucketListDay I wish you the best and hopefully you have a lawyer working with you on it.
Lemon law also comes to mind. The manufacturer would be forced to buy it back from you so you can go get another one.
Class action lawsuit, clearly, after watching so many videos from other rv owners with frame issues like yours. Grand Design is clearly a disreputable company that no one should buy from, ever again. What a horrific nightmare! So sorry for everything you're having to go through!
I will say, I do notice that a LOT of these failures happen on these 45' Momentums that owners have loaded up the front end with big solar/big batteries systems. I believe owners are NOT overweight, but the frames were not designed/constructed to handle how heavy owners are making the nose of the fifth wheel. -------- Grand Design spent 20 years building a great reputation and destroyed it in one year. If I were CEO, we would stop production of any new large momentums until the frame was completely reengineered. At the same time, they need to develop a specific engineered solution to all units already on the road. They need to set up AND TRAIN STAFF to retrofit this solution and have it available to all units no matter how old they are. This would be an investment in Grand Designs future marketing/sales. They COULD have come out looking like heros. Instead, their name is now mud. We were close to buying a Grand Design SPECIFICALLY because of how they had always taken care of their customers. -------- OH, and I would document everything, grab all past weight scale receipts you have and hire one of those mad dog crazy screaming lawyers on TV.
You may want to consider the disaster prevention kit. My impression is that when the CP4 goes bad Ford is most likely to say it is from bad/contaminated fuel and that is not covered under warranty. Then you are on the hook for repair costs around the 16k mark. At least with the disaster prevention kit the only thing that needs to be replaced is the pump which is considerably less. The kit should not void the warranty because essentially it is adding an additional filter in the fuel system. S&S could explain it better. Also, they cover the DCR pump with a 2 year warranty if I remember correctly.
Yes, I am looking into this...
This company should be put out of business.
Many are saying the same thing...
Lawyer time!!!! Disgusted with Grand Design!!!!
You and paving new paths are in the same boat with broken frames. I was considering GD and now would never buy one
Thanks for the video. Have you weighed the RV and truck and then the truck alone to get actual pin weight? With all those batteries and inverters in the front bay you’ve added a lot of weight on the uprights of the upper deck. Just curious.
I own a 2020 Momentum that had some upper deck flex. They sent an SRT to my location in NM (one happened to be fairly close at the time to remove the bulkhead and inspect. He put larger lag screws in the wall anchors from inside along the floor, and found a small crack in the door side sill plate. Made sure it was safe to tow. I then took it to the Grand Design factory service center (it did take about 3 months for an appt). They fixed all aspects of it, pin box, sill plates replaced, gussets added, crossmembers replaced, wall anchors secured. It’s been good, solid. They covered all of it under structural warranty. The service took 8 days.
Like you, I’m full time. Not sure how much you travel but I have nearly 40K miles on my coach. I also had Morryde Independent suspension installed when the coach was two years old. Have you thought about that since you’re full time?
Grand Design has stood behind every issue I’ve had, including some minor ones in my first year of ownership.
Yep, I went through all of the same, but mine has broke again due to poor workmanship and they will not stand behind it.
I too was thinking while watching this video, wow look at all those batteries, inverter’s and Onan generator. Wonder what else is packed on the chassis area? Everything has a stress point even bridges come apart! I’ve seen these SRT people in action and they are committed to their craft. I am waiting to see the well choreographed video.
Time to Lawyer up...we have friends in Canada that ran into some similar situations with GD with the piss poor quality and workmanship. Once GD were contacted by their lawyer, (and with the threat of going viral on Social Media) their tack and tone immediately changed. They have since sent Repair Teams up to Canada to fix stuff...more to come.
We will see how they continue to respond...
Wow, I've had four Battleborn batteries in our coach now for a couple of years, and never had an issue, so it was sure nice to hear they went over and beyond for you! Any time I had a question, they were good at getting back to me with an explanation, so KUDOS to Battleborn Lithium batteries! As for what I might do, it would be to fix, sell and try a Brinkley perhaps, or one of the other choices that would put a smile on your face!
I would be sick if I had the problems you’re having. Have you thought of finding a law firm that does class action suits? I bet you could gather plenty of prospects that would join you? It’s so sad this happens with such expensive purchases
Your videos are the reason I refuse to buy a Grand Design. Once my current RV is paid off/sold/ or destroyed… I’ll never buy another RV again. Ownership of an RV really opened my eyes. It’s as if they’re all built in China. Piss poor quality at best and it only gets worse from there.
Sadly true with most types and manufactures
I think this thing with frame flex and extreme poor quality started in COVID. We have a 2016 Open Range Light 5th wheel and have had zero problems with it, so far. We've been on several months long, across America trips, and many local area trips but are not full timers. Could fail this year, who knows. But all RVs are not bad.
@@barrya5191 my RV is a pre COVID unit and it’s not what I expected out of American manufacturing.
Grand designs was in the running for my purchase, but all the videos I’ve seen, no, absolutely not.
Good call.... Take a look at Brinkley, I think you will be very impressed.
I don't envy your situation in the least with this trailer but also not surprised that its happening due to the theme of larger trailers often built with an under engineered frame strength. About that tire that cupped, while it could be a tire issue I am far more willing to bet its a combination of alignment and the lacking of the suspension design. Unless I missed seeing them, does this trailer have any shocks on the suspension ?. When a tire has no shock to help control the axles movement, tires tend to act somewhat like a person dribbling a basket ball and the roads surface contributes greatly to that motion getting going. A tire literally bouncing down the road has a lot higher chance of starting to wear weird and once that starts it just compounds itself.
No there are no shocks. I agree with your statement.
I'm somewhat shocked about the poor quality of those Welds. Looks like rookie work.
I'm looking to go off grid in an RV. I am weight limited to 5K to 6K towing capacity. there are heavy restrictions in that size and type of RV.
The costs involved are insane!
Looking at good, nice Tents.
You can do it! Good luck
Your frame issue is a design flaw. The frames used for your, I assume 42 foot plus rigg, is the same frame support members sizes used in all models of Grand Designs from the shortest, lightest, 5th wheel to the longest, heaviest. Just a little longer and maybe with a few more cross members. But essentially the same frame components. The design of a 5th wheel frame is such that the forces created by the bumps in the road are highest at the points at the start, or beginning of the welds where the upper platform connects to the lower platform. And where the frame cantilevers over the axles. A lot on constant bending / flex. Over time and use the welds begin to "unzip" shall we say. Think of it in simpler terms. When you see a highway bridge you will notice where the steel is over a pier in the center of the highway the steel is thicker and more reinforced. That's where all the weight is sitting. Your axles are no different. The biggest portion of the RV's weight sits right over your axils. The whole back half of you RV has no support. It is like a big springboard. The heavier the RV the greater this effect. The frame components should have been up-sized or reinforced as the riggs got bigger. They are not because of the added weight. So Grand Designs is actually right, it is overweight, and they can't fix it. But is their design, so if they have a structural warranty, they are responsible. There is a limit to size and weight you can go without respacing your axles. Truckers do this all the time. Have fun.
Regarding the CP4 pump . The pump is just a poor design plain and simple. Fuel quality for sure is a factor in pump failure .
If the dealer told you your whole truck warranty would be void if you put in a different fuel pump then he is NOT being truthfull with you .
That’s not how it works.
Yea, I hearing that from other as well...
I believe Grand design originally was a standalone company and had great quality control and built good units but The Grand design is now owned by
Yes, this is when the product and the company started to go down hill.
I own a grand design solitude and have for about 6 years. Last year at the Houston rv show we almost upgraded to the 390rk until I seen the frame issues on them. This is sad that we can’t spend $100,000.00 plus and have to worry about this. Maybe we need to let the Chinese start building them.
No, we just need minimum requirements for all trailers on the road so they remain safe, just like they do for 18 wheelers trailers. They are build to carry heavy loads for years.
So sorry to hear that Grand Design and Winnebago will not stand behind their work. I believe this is directly due to Winnebago owning them. About 8 years back we had a Winnebago Class A that had many issues. Not only did they not stand behind their product but they also never returned any of our calls for over a month and that was with many tries.
We then bought a Tiffin Class A and now we own an Alliance Valor 40V13. I believe that these large companies like Winnebago and Thor are the reason that many issues are happening. They want to get these units out as fast as possible and wash their hands of any major issues.
With you being full time it also puts stress on you and the family since your safety is a major concern while traveling. It’s a shame that you now have to seek legal and professional assistance just to prove your case showing your RV isn’t over weight and that their work was subpar. Hopefully once this gets underway they get this resolved in your favor. I would hope that they have to buy this back from you and that you can get something else without these issues that come from these large companies that continue to ruin the reputation of companies like Grand Design.
By the way we really enjoy your videos.
You said it all Barry...
Another grand design frame flex failure. Maybe contact big truck big rv as he's collecting data. Same with paving new paths. They've got some groups forming on this seemingly common grand design issue.
Agree with the lawyer and go after GD. Amsoil 4 in one diesel additive for the truck. I use it every tank full. Check it out before you make your decision.
Thanks, and yes on the Amsoil!
Good luck, seems like a long road ahead for you sir. I wish you the best of luck dealing with this nightmare and lemon. I wonder what a mechanical engineer would think of the frame deviation and broken welds. Document it like a crime scene with photos and have experts look at the defects. Disappointing to hear the manufacturer is not standing behind their product and their repairs. You would expect more integrity from an American manufacturer. You are taking this situation with more grace than I would be able to. I know what fifth wheel I won't be buying in the future because of your experience.
Yes, there are a couple of other Brands that are much better. Go Brinkley
@@MyBucketListDay All RV’s have their issues, even Brinkley! There’s a major recall instituted by NHTSA for the hubs separating from the axle tubes. Brinkley utilizes Lippert frames and axles just as Grand Design uses. RVIA standards for RV’s are failing the consumers due to the lack of independent regulatory oversight! Most RV Dealerships have you sign away most of your consumer rights at the moment of the purchase. Ever looked closely at the purchase documents you signed? For this reason, do not ever buy new RV’s from a dealer!
So, an engineer signed off on the initial build and the fix? The engineers need to be fired.
Not sure where you heard those mods voids your warranty, but that is only true if the mod contributes or causes a failure. Additionally, it's on the mfg to demonstrate your aftermarket part caused the problem (federal law). Use the disaster prevention kit and a fuel additive. The CP4 will be fine if it gets lubricated with a good additive (like Hot Shots).
I do use the hotshots now
We’ve been traveling full time in our 2020 373fb for the past four years. So far, we have not experienced any frame issues (knock on wood). It scares me to death every time I watch a frame issue video. It matters not who the rv manufacturer is, the frames are all built by lippert. I have had extensive experience in manufacturing. So why do some people have no issues, (that they know of), and other people have nightmare experiences such as yours, (which I hope are rare.) Even if lippert uses cheap chinese steel, they use the same steel in all their frames, and yet some have problems, and others don’t.
So if all the frames use the same engineering, and use the same cheap chinese steel the only variable left is the individual that welded the frame. How much experience does this individual have? Are they Certified? Or are they hiring any knucklehead off the street to do these critical welds? The frame design should take into account a reasonable percentage safety margin for overweight and poor road conditions.
When you buy a new pickup truck, it doesn’t fall apart if you hit a pothole or you exceed your weight rating.
I really hate to say this, but maybe there needs to be federal engineering and construction standards for rv chassis, if the rv industry can’t be trusted to regulate their own standards.
Hey Paul, the main reason is Lippert builds to the manufacture specs. In this case GD specified my frame be built a certain way and not using the right size and gage steel and to save money used less structural supports than Lippert suggested. This is why GD is seeing more of these issues than other brands using Lippert.
@@MyBucketListDay thanks for that clarification. Makes me question the qualifications of Grand Designs Engineers. If someone engineers a chassis that falls apart, are they an engineer?
Being a welder and retired mechanic I've noticed some chicken shit welds on my Coachman Chaperal 5th wheel.
you mentioned in this video that you’re going to weigh your RV “have you not done that before ? Ever? Have you never weighed anything that you brought into the RV? have you not weighed every single thing that you put into that RV ? For the last 45 or 50 years? I’ve always had a scale by the steps whenever anything was brought into my RVs. I weighed everything, most people do not do that. I’ve always done that Ive owned in excess of 27 RVs 17 of them fifth wheels I have never ever had an issue with tires, frame, or my hitch assembly, nothing whenever I have friends or newbies that I know that are buying their first RV I always suggest to them that they weigh everything, nope, falls on deaf ears, till the tire wear and blowouts start. One time during a camparama, w 20 of us, one of them had his RV was significantly overweight, by 1147 pounds, a scale will give you a total weight, a scale, a pen and pad will give you a running total weight.
I’d suggest you bring your Rv to a heavy duty truck shop w a frame machine, pay them to check it out, open it up. It’s much more ammunition for you instead of novices playing Dr. trying to convince a judge of your novice determination versus a pro. Good luck
Yes, I've weighed it several times, but I did it again to prove after the repairs what the new weight is.
My lawyers would sue their pants off.
So sorry for all your going through. They need to make it right
Wish they would
John Deere did a study many years ago that found adding even 1% biodiesel to Jet A (which has a very low lubricity) brought it up to the same lubricity as standard diesel fuel. So if you have biodiesel available that can also be used as an effective lubricity additive.
Thanks for the tip...
hot shot LX4 LUBRICITY EXTREME is a premium lubricity additive for Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD)
On the 2017+ GM, they kicked Bosch to the curb and the pump and the injectors are Denso for the duramax
Thanks
I've had both pumps and I always use Archoil in every tank. I have never had any troubles.
@@coryjuntunen7322 I’ve started using this in my current truck. See how it goes long term.