Plain and simple if you are not watching this show you are missing out. I would recommend people to watch this show alone just for John Blackthorne. This is my first time seeing this actor in a role and he's EATING it up. The character is now already one of my favorite characters ever in TV. I think Hiroyuki and him at this rate should get Emmy nominations. SO GOOD!!
It is a Masterpiece... what a good show!! The cast is awesome but I have to say Tadanobu Asano is killing as Yabu.. His expressions by the end of this episode are priceless!
The show is already different from the book when in the book using guns is not noble, the show actually more accurate to the history because samurais at that point were already used to guns and formation.
Appreciate you guys and love the insight you bring every week. I found it very interesting what Steve had to say about the canons because on the shogun podcast, their historian said they made the switch from Blackthorn teaching the Japanese about muskets to canons because it was accurate for the time and the role they played in the Siege of Osaka in 1614. 🙏🏽
I think Toronaga's absence from this episode speaks volumes. This guy is deep into a game of 4-D chess while everyone else still has the checkerboard on the table. He knows his son, Omi, Lord Yabu, etc & knows what will happen in his absence. I wonder if Toranaga-San will be disappointed in junior, or if it's all part of his tactics & games. I dunno about Anjin pillowing with Mariko. In the 1980 series, she arranges to have Anjin sleep with a courtesan who he would think was her by giving the girl her perfume to wear. The morning after Anjin is ready to profess his 💕 to Mariko only to find out she tricked him. But they still ended up together later on in the mini-series.
I think I know where the natto eating scene comes from. In the FX podcast Hiroyuki Sanada told there were two caterers on the set. One for the western, one for the japanese cast and crew. WIth time people of both sides were curious what the other ones were eating. And so they tried and learned along with the story they were filming. I feel they mirrored these real world experiences here.
If you think the cannon use was wrong….boy do I have something to tell you about firearms in the book. In the book he trains them on firearms, and that is what is actually unrealistic. Firearms, like the show says, had been around for half a century in Japan before this. They knew how to use them just fine. The turn to the cannon use they did in the show was great, and much more accurate to history. Especially considering the Japanese used British and Dutch cannons in the Seige of Osaka in 1615.
Yeah, the historian on the FX podcast for the episode said the first drafts of the script were the same as the book but it didn't make sense for the time period. The change to cannon was to have a continuity with the seige you mentioned where the Japanese were instucted by the English and Dutch. Portugues canon were older and not nearly as powerful. It also fits better with William Adams, who was really a naval man and ship builder (sailed with Francis Drake against the Spanish Armada).
The Japanese were basically gun nuts or Oda Nobunaga was at least, and they had just got the shit kicked out of them by Admiral Yi and his superior Canons in the Imjin war.
After actually completing your review the only things I want to add are: 1) That "gigantic story element" Steve is talking about is absolutely going to happen (opinion not an insider) and I VERY much am glad they are setting it up. I thought too that it would be this episode and I was actually disappointed (but mistaken) that it was going to come this early. I didn't think Blackthorne had shown enough that he was that accepting of Japanese ways. But now I feel like it will be much more believable as we got that needed setup this episode with him meditating in the garden, watching rocks grow and otherwise taking the time to appreciate the rain and a glorious view. 2) I missed if you talked about the trap that Toranaga disarms by his winning over Yabu's army. In the show Blackthorne says "Well lets hope so" in response to Mariko stating that it was Toranaga's army when asked about whose it was. But in the book Mariko has an internal monologue where she regrets that Blackthorne was as yet still too ignorant to understand what had just happened while gushing over Toranaga recognizing the trap and preventing itYabu from capturing him. Basically, Toranaga's inspection achieved his goal of distracting Yabu long enough for him to escape back out to sea unnoticed. Yabu just (probably) needed some time with his advisors and time to realize the prize he had effectively in his possession of having Toranaga so badly outnumbered. Just a brilliant show all said and done.
This so far feels like a realistic take on the politics of Japan at that time. Names are changed and it is indeed fictionalized, but there is ALOT of mirroring of actual events (several regents ruling until the heir of the shogunate comes of age but start infighting for control actually happened). The writing and pacing has been fantastic.
Love the podcast. And I don't know why I'm posting a very mild disagreement where I agree with so much else, but that said, if Blackthorne came back with a rutter/map of how to get to Japan for England to open up that market and he brought back with him a representative of the most powerful lord in Japan? He would probably have been knighted and called a glorious bastard (stomp stomp) and I'm sure the Queen would want to meet Mariko. But then Queen Elizabeth did die after a short illness 1603 and it takes two years to sail back to England.. so probably no meeting ;)
You should listen to the official podcast. They explain their choices. "Consort" is not an accurate translation of Fuji-san's position. As hatamoto, Blackthorn must be from a samurai family. Toranaga is marrying him into Fuji-san's family. She is being asked to run his household as a wife. That is her service and duty to Toranaga-sama. That is why she can give her father's swords to Blackthorn.
@@JohnRochaSays The point is the word "consort" is the closest English (Portuguese?) word that fits, but it doesn't translate from the Japanese perfectly well. It's a different concept than what a European would imagine when using the word. It's just that there's no other word that's better. The cross-cultural meaning isn't perfectly understood going from one language to another.
Harris is why I watch this reaction series. His observations and commentary are spot on. The one thing I am surprised he doesn't comment and correct Rocha on is these aren't "alliances" between Blackthorne and Fuji, etc. She finds him (initially) absolutely repulsive. However, she is a samurai woman, who also shares the absolute obedience to her liege lord, while retaining certain rights as a samurai (regardless of being a woman) (which is why later in the book, they show how delicate of a negotiation with Toranaga this all really was). I still completely do not understand what draws/attracts Mariko to this version of Blackthorne. He's brave but otherwise a complete boor and an oaf. Has no charm. He has little humility. He doesnt' share the book's or original series' Blackthorne's growing interest in things Japanese. Out of all the better things this version does ,, their Blackthorne remains a dud (to me) (and yes, I am extremely partial to the book.. it was the one book in my life I never put down once I started reading it and did nothing but eat, defecate (while still reading) for 3 days straight.
The way Toranaga shifted Yabushige's trops loyalty onto himself was masterfully done. Yabushige's face looked like the face of a man who lost his troops.
Its funny that they seem to try to modernize this version by empowering the women more, but don't have a problem with offending native Japanese people by showing the strongest Japanese female character pursuing and initiating sex with a foreigner as soon as her husband dies(supposedly) while protecting them. My wife is native born Japanese btw. She also thought the scene with the natto was silly and killed the flow of the show. Since they are free to change aspects of the show, they should have let him satisfy his needs with Fuji, as he was supposed to. Having an attractive strong female lead that does not have to have sex with the male lead to be relevant would have been a bold move, and make it less of a white man's fantasy from the 1970s.
You're being cringe and anti-White. There's nothing wrong with how this episode played out. If the Japanese are offended with one of "their women" having sex with a foreigner they can just deal with it and not be so racist. Their nation is dying for a reason.
Well, I understand your point, but I do think you’re a bit off base here. Mariko’s marriage is not portrayed as a happy one from the beginning. And although her husband dies a noble death, it doesn’t change the fact that he is portrayed as a domineering man who was jealous of his wife’s ascendancy in Toranaga’s court. So she was already half out of the marriage. Also, she makes it clear when she talks of the eightfold fence that she’s been going thru the motions in their marriage and lost her love for him a long time ago. AND finally she didn’t sleep with Blackthorne “as soon as her husband died”. It was after the MONTHS long montage of him teaching Yabushige’s people on how to use the cannons. So factoring all that in, it makes total sense that they’d sleep together. And as Steve pointed out, it happens way faster in the book. So the show deserves more credit for dragging it out until the 4th episode.
@@JohnRochaSays You forget that she is a very devout Catholic at a time where that could easily be a death sentence on Japan. And as a high standing lady of the court and widow of a high ranking samurai, sleeping with a foreigner in this situation would mean seppuku. But she throws her honor and religious beliefs out the window for a foreigner who has showed no sexual interest in her at all? That hardly puts her in a positive light to native Japanese(which my wife happens to be) . This show is set in 1600, not 1960. Lol.
Plain and simple if you are not watching this show you are missing out. I would recommend people to watch this show alone just for John Blackthorne. This is my first time seeing this actor in a role and he's EATING it up. The character is now already one of my favorite characters ever in TV. I think Hiroyuki and him at this rate should get Emmy nominations. SO GOOD!!
It is a Masterpiece... what a good show!! The cast is awesome but I have to say Tadanobu Asano is killing as Yabu.. His expressions by the end of this episode are priceless!
The show is already different from the book when in the book using guns is not noble, the show actually more accurate to the history because samurais at that point were already used to guns and formation.
The show is tremendous... It keeps getting better and better!!!!
So glad to see SHŌGUN retaining it's well deserved 9.2 rating.
Appreciate you guys and love the insight you bring every week. I found it very interesting what Steve had to say about the canons because on the shogun podcast, their historian said they made the switch from Blackthorn teaching the Japanese about muskets to canons because it was accurate for the time and the role they played in the Siege of Osaka in 1614. 🙏🏽
I think Toronaga's absence from this episode speaks volumes. This guy is deep into a game of 4-D chess while everyone else still has the checkerboard on the table. He knows his son, Omi, Lord Yabu, etc & knows what will happen in his absence. I wonder if Toranaga-San will be disappointed in junior, or if it's all part of his tactics & games.
I dunno about Anjin pillowing with Mariko. In the 1980 series, she arranges to have Anjin sleep with a courtesan who he would think was her by giving the girl her perfume to wear.
The morning after Anjin is ready to profess his 💕 to Mariko only to find out she tricked him. But they still ended up together later on in the mini-series.
Been loving the show and makes me really want to visit Japan
I think I know where the natto eating scene comes from. In the FX podcast Hiroyuki Sanada told there were two caterers on the set. One for the western, one for the japanese cast and crew. WIth time people of both sides were curious what the other ones were eating. And so they tried and learned along with the story they were filming. I feel they mirrored these real world experiences here.
I look forward to your review every week. Absolutely loving Showgun.
If you think the cannon use was wrong….boy do I have something to tell you about firearms in the book. In the book he trains them on firearms, and that is what is actually unrealistic. Firearms, like the show says, had been around for half a century in Japan before this. They knew how to use them just fine. The turn to the cannon use they did in the show was great, and much more accurate to history. Especially considering the Japanese used British and Dutch cannons in the Seige of Osaka in 1615.
Yeah, the historian on the FX podcast for the episode said the first drafts of the script were the same as the book but it didn't make sense for the time period. The change to cannon was to have a continuity with the seige you mentioned where the Japanese were instucted by the English and Dutch. Portugues canon were older and not nearly as powerful. It also fits better with William Adams, who was really a naval man and ship builder (sailed with Francis Drake against the Spanish Armada).
The Japanese were basically gun nuts or Oda Nobunaga was at least, and they had just got the shit kicked out of them by Admiral Yi and his superior Canons in the Imjin war.
As someone who also read the book multiple times, this is my favourite of the Shogun review shows.
Thank you!
I will have to add "Milk-dribbling f*** smear" to my list of insults 🤣🤣🤣
Best episode so far.
When I saw the old Gardener, it definitely brought back that Episode from the original 1980 series
Lord Toranaga is going to WAR!!!!
After actually completing your review the only things I want to add are: 1) That "gigantic story element" Steve is talking about is absolutely going to happen (opinion not an insider) and I VERY much am glad they are setting it up. I thought too that it would be this episode and I was actually disappointed (but mistaken) that it was going to come this early. I didn't think Blackthorne had shown enough that he was that accepting of Japanese ways. But now I feel like it will be much more believable as we got that needed setup this episode with him meditating in the garden, watching rocks grow and otherwise taking the time to appreciate the rain and a glorious view. 2) I missed if you talked about the trap that Toranaga disarms by his winning over Yabu's army. In the show Blackthorne says "Well lets hope so" in response to Mariko stating that it was Toranaga's army when asked about whose it was. But in the book Mariko has an internal monologue where she regrets that Blackthorne was as yet still too ignorant to understand what had just happened while gushing over Toranaga recognizing the trap and preventing itYabu from capturing him. Basically, Toranaga's inspection achieved his goal of distracting Yabu long enough for him to escape back out to sea unnoticed. Yabu just (probably) needed some time with his advisors and time to realize the prize he had effectively in his possession of having Toranaga so badly outnumbered. Just a brilliant show all said and done.
thanks Steve and John!
This so far feels like a realistic take on the politics of Japan at that time. Names are changed and it is indeed fictionalized, but there is ALOT of mirroring of actual events (several regents ruling until the heir of the shogunate comes of age but start infighting for control actually happened). The writing and pacing has been fantastic.
How hot is Mariko 😏❤️
I wish you guys released this as a podcast! Love your commentary!
Subscribe to The Cine-Files podcast. Every episode's audio is on that feed.
@JohnRochaSays I am subscribed and somehow didn't even see the Shogun episodes! Thank you thank you!
You gotta get Harloff-san to watch Shogun!
This show is my new obsession.❤
Love the podcast. And I don't know why I'm posting a very mild disagreement where I agree with so much else, but that said, if Blackthorne came back with a rutter/map of how to get to Japan for England to open up that market and he brought back with him a representative of the most powerful lord in Japan? He would probably have been knighted and called a glorious bastard (stomp stomp) and I'm sure the Queen would want to meet Mariko. But then Queen Elizabeth did die after a short illness 1603 and it takes two years to sail back to England.. so probably no meeting ;)
Right. No meeting. Also, it was set up as a fantasy thing not an actual thing that could happen.
You should listen to the official podcast. They explain their choices. "Consort" is not an accurate translation of Fuji-san's position. As hatamoto, Blackthorn must be from a samurai family. Toranaga is marrying him into Fuji-san's family. She is being asked to run his household as a wife. That is her service and duty to Toranaga-sama. That is why she can give her father's swords to Blackthorn.
The characters literally call her that on the show. What are you talking about?
@@JohnRochaSays The point is the word "consort" is the closest English (Portuguese?) word that fits, but it doesn't translate from the Japanese perfectly well. It's a different concept than what a European would imagine when using the word. It's just that there's no other word that's better. The cross-cultural meaning isn't perfectly understood going from one language to another.
In history, Mariko is the daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide.
And she never even met William Adams, who is the Blackthorn character.
@@joeyartk I don't care, I'm just saying Akechi is a huge name in Japan.
@@jp-0047 And Buntaro is Hosokawa Tadaoki. One of their descendants was Prime Minister of Japan about 30 years ago.
Harris is why I watch this reaction series. His observations and commentary are spot on. The one thing I am surprised he doesn't comment and correct Rocha on is these aren't "alliances" between Blackthorne and Fuji, etc. She finds him (initially) absolutely repulsive. However, she is a samurai woman, who also shares the absolute obedience to her liege lord, while retaining certain rights as a samurai (regardless of being a woman) (which is why later in the book, they show how delicate of a negotiation with Toranaga this all really was). I still completely do not understand what draws/attracts Mariko to this version of Blackthorne. He's brave but otherwise a complete boor and an oaf. Has no charm. He has little humility. He doesnt' share the book's or original series' Blackthorne's growing interest in things Japanese. Out of all the better things this version does ,, their Blackthorne remains a dud (to me) (and yes, I am extremely partial to the book.. it was the one book in my life I never put down once I started reading it and did nothing but eat, defecate (while still reading) for 3 days straight.
Have you watched The Last Kingdom?
The way Toranaga shifted Yabushige's trops loyalty onto himself was masterfully done. Yabushige's face looked like the face of a man who lost his troops.
Just found out Hulu offers a dubbed version.. now I can show my subtitles averse friends!!!
As the first Japanese to ever set foot in England? Mariko would absolutely get an audience with the queen.
Great Show!!!
Is that Elvis Costello?
Thanks!
Thank you, Sharon!
This was a gruesome episode
I noticed the samurai hea-shave isn't as prominent.... is this more a cultural accuracy, production decision, or other? Thx...
✌️🤔👍❕️
Yabushige is a great character but he's gota pick a side. I hope it's Toranaga (might not have a choice at this point) but either way I'm intrigued.
Its funny that they seem to try to modernize this version by empowering the women more, but don't have a problem with offending native Japanese people by showing the strongest Japanese female character pursuing and initiating sex with a foreigner as soon as her husband dies(supposedly) while protecting them. My wife is native born Japanese btw. She also thought the scene with the natto was silly and killed the flow of the show. Since they are free to change aspects of the show, they should have let him satisfy his needs with Fuji, as he was supposed to. Having an attractive strong female lead that does not have to have sex with the male lead to be relevant would have been a bold move, and make it less of a white man's fantasy from the 1970s.
You're being cringe and anti-White. There's nothing wrong with how this episode played out. If the Japanese are offended with one of "their women" having sex with a foreigner they can just deal with it and not be so racist. Their nation is dying for a reason.
Well, I understand your point, but I do think you’re a bit off base here. Mariko’s marriage is not portrayed as a happy one from the beginning. And although her husband dies a noble death, it doesn’t change the fact that he is portrayed as a domineering man who was jealous of his wife’s ascendancy in Toranaga’s court. So she was already half out of the marriage. Also, she makes it clear when she talks of the eightfold fence that she’s been going thru the motions in their marriage and lost her love for him a long time ago. AND finally she didn’t sleep with Blackthorne “as soon as her husband died”. It was after the MONTHS long montage of him teaching Yabushige’s people on how to use the cannons. So factoring all that in, it makes total sense that they’d sleep together. And as Steve pointed out, it happens way faster in the book. So the show deserves more credit for dragging it out until the 4th episode.
So you want the other recent widow to have sex with the white lead?
@@JohnRochaSays You forget that she is a very devout Catholic at a time where that could easily be a death sentence on Japan. And as a high standing lady of the court and widow of a high ranking samurai, sleeping with a foreigner in this situation would mean seppuku. But she throws her honor and religious beliefs out the window for a foreigner who has showed no sexual interest in her at all? That hardly puts her in a positive light to native Japanese(which my wife happens to be) . This show is set in 1600, not 1960. Lol.
@@joeyartk You forget that I didn’t write the book and this is more a complaint that should be sent to James Clavelle. Haha!