I really like your video thank you for sharing.. I have extensive experience with VFD Drives in industrial environments and would like to comment on why vfd(s) require both a breaker and fuse.. Both fuses and breakers come in various types but for this example let's just focus on two types thermal protection and short circuit protection. the DIN rail and household breakers like used here are thermally tripped. These breakers will protect against short circuit but the reaction time is very slow compared to the short circuit protection needed to properly protect the VFD. So in this case the breaker and fuse are suited for two different types of fault and complement each other... A 25A breaker in this case will not short circuit trip until the current load is 150%-225% of the rated current depending on the trip curve of the breaker. The fuse in this application is designed to quickly interrupt the circuit extremely fast when the current exceeds the rating. This will protect the VFD SCR DC Buss (Not IGBT(s) they are on the output side of the VFD) and additionally protect the circuit breaker from damaged in the event of a VFD failure. I have seen many breakers not used in tandem with uses fail because breaker contacts welded shut before the thermal mechanism tried to interrupt the circuit that resulted in fires and explosions. Motor controls should always use breaker and fuse! Always!!!!
It is true that the fast acting fuse will interrupt a high current more quickly than a breaker can, and they should be used to protect semiconductor equipment. But the fuse will not blow instantly simply if the rated current is exceeded. Fuses have an inverse time-current curve and thus they withstand a smaller overcurrent longer than a larger overcurrent. For example, according to the data sheet, the Eaton FWC-25A10F fuse will withstand 60 amps for 20 seconds before it begins to arc and open, whereas at 320 amps it will open in one millisecond. Semiconductor fuses do not prevent damage to semiconductors, but they will reduce the total damage within a device if something does go wrong. A breaker alone cannot afford the same protection. Some additional facts about breakers. Whether they are residential or industrial, they are thermal-magnetic breakers. The thermal section in a breaker trips when heat is created by an overcurrent. This protects from small overcurrents and is inverse time-current related like all fuses. The breaker can hold overcurrents from a few seconds to several minutes, depending on overload. However, the magnetic section of a breaker protects from high overcurrents by magnetically pulling a trip mechanism that opens the breaker. There is no built in time delay in this case. This section either trips or it does not, depending on the amount of current. But in any case, a breaker cannot open as fast as a fuse, especially a fast acting fuse
A properly sized circuit breaker on the line side seems to be the norm on CNC builds that I have worked on the last few years. Most newer vfds are very well internally protected from short circuit, under/ over voltage, phase loss and thermal variations plus they are equipped with a dry relay to create a protection circuit and shunt trip the mccb. But who can argue with added protection!!!!! I was more concerned with the exclusion of the line side reactor especially while single phasing a VFD.
I might have said this before but thanks for making the best video on this subject on UA-cam. I don't know why more creators don't do this (put hot wire here, put neutral wire here etc.) They act like it's trade secrets or something. Most people come to UA-cam to either learn or validate their process. You expertly helped me learn and validate, so thank you. if possible could you do a video on how to control a spindle either using PWM or RS485 in the way only you can do. FYI my system is running smoothly, although manually through the VFD right nom. Thanks.
A very good video. My two cents are that first you don’t use a GFCI with a VFD. The VFD will trip the GFCI. One exception is the KB brand of VFDs which can be ordered with GFCI feature that prevent nuisance trips. The other tip is that if you use fast acting fuses you don’t need a breaker. It’s true that a breaker is convenient as that you can just reset it if it trips, but the fast acting fuses will blow well before the breaker reaches its limit anyway so you’ll be replacing fuses. And many companies, ABB being one, don’t recommend a breaker to protect the VFD. They prefer the right type of fuses. Thanks for the good quality video.
Thank you for explaining everything! This helps to make informed decisions on components used in similar builds. Good production quality on the videos.
A few years ago I has done also important changes to my similar lathe. The DC-motor and all the electronics is replace with 2HP tri-phase motor 230V with VFD. I didn’t use the contactor anymore because forward and reverse controls on the input is controlled by 2 little relays. Push-bottoms and micro-switches generates the events, and all the supplied safety switches remains functional. I am happy of your very nice video’s, good explanation and practical implementation. My video’s are more theoretically, because torque and speed goes not always together is the same direction.
James Just a comment, no question this time As a source for short lengths of quality shielded cable, look at computer ethernet cables. Reasonably priced, available in assorted lengths, and I feel that twisted pair is more immune to noise than straight thru wires They also make rh45 panel connectors that are female on both sides, so with an extra ethernet you can cut this extra cable in half and use that for connections inside the cabinets. Plus it is extremely easy to connect/disconnect these cables as needed via the RJ45 jack As always, I really enjoy your videos, keep up the great work and great content John
James, you put together a very series of videos. Also, congrats on the “new look”. I installed my first TECO VFD a while ago, and the same as you, my provided print manual only went up to maybe Section 5 plus an appendix if I remember correctly. I found the omitted parts, including the “missing Section 11” that you referred to, in an online version of the manual. The reason for my comment is to possibly clarify the need for a fast action fuse. The manual states that the fast action fuse was needed to “protect peripheral equipment” and to then reference section 11. Section 11 led me to believe that peripheral devices are those attached to the VFD with cables attached to the VFD via the front comm port. It took a couple of tries to talk to the right person, but TECO tech department confirmed that “peripheral equipment” only means items connected to the VFD via cable to the front comm port. An external keypad or controller, for example. It does not include other things connected to the VFD, for example, the motor being driven by the VFD via the power terminal block, or items (potentiometers, switches, etc) connected by wire to the control circuit terminal block All that written? My installation is like yours! I had a selection of fast fuses and fuse holders in my stash, so while I was waiting for a word back from TECO tech, I installed the fuse anyway so I could get the thing up and running, lol.
Thank you. Yeah, I have both versions of the manual. I think they call one of them a "user guide". The fast-acting fuses is shown in the wiring diagram, so I put it in. It isn't totally clear to me how a fast-acting fuse on the VFD input protects equipment connected to the comm port, but I guess there could be failure modes where that would matter. I would hate to be in a situation where current flow through a serial port is blowing a 25A fuse!
@@Clough42 If there is no fast acting fuse in the supply line, semiconductor failure can allow overcurrents to find a way to any portion of the electrical circuits within the VFD, including comm ports. It would not be the comm port that caused the fuse to blow, but rather that the comm port (and connected equipment) could become a victim by association! The fuse will trip before high currents can migrate that far.
@@Clough42 Well this is really istructive. There are lots of videos of all kinds of connections for VFDs but a small amount of them dedicated to the protection, this is specially true for chinese VFD manuals like mine (it was my fault). I have readed a lot of controversial comments in forums regarding the use and utility of type "J" fast fuses in modern VFDs where the protection will be more adecuate for fire protection probably than for protecting the monoblock components of the moder VFDs. Here in Spain our normative explicits the use of MCCB type B for VFDs and the fuse is redundant, probably a safe point for warranty. If you see different manuals you will see "nothing of line filters after de VFD" for example and this is very confusing.
Could you make a video on your video production setup? Your videos are very well mic’d and very well produced. In a previous video you mentioned 3 cameras but nothing specific. Keep up the good work.
in the machine we use at work there are normally motor protection trips between the vfd and the motors. something like a Siemens SIRIUS. also one reason for the breakers on the main input is you could have more than one system in the electrical cabinet. so each vfd is independently protected
You might double check that . That is not standard practice. You would have to wire a signal back to the VFD and shut it down because the VFD would keep pumping voltage into that relay.
@@DieselRamcharger yea I see what you are saying. A motor driving the load would drive the dc buss voltage too high. Some applications have one drive powering multiple motors and you have to use a thermal relay on one or more of the motors but these are specially designed VFDs that can take that voltage back and dissipate it with resistors or send the voltage back to line. Some can use the braking resistor or an external unit to absorb the back load. It would be a sketchy set up for sure.
You are only allowed to wire that fuse from the top period!It's in the electrical code like and load.Line is always on the top load on the bottom .There is an exception to the rule in controls as part of an assembly to keep wires shorter
James, well done, I agree with you on the marginal safety, the real test is if for some ungodly reason the motor is jammed and pulls too much current from the VFD the real test is the fuse you put in will blow before the electronics. I do not have much confidence with some of the VFDs made in china since they are poorly made. I would feel better if it was made in Japan, since they do a much better quality control and use better parts. But, I am working on a VFD repair no that was blown due to a brown out. What went bad on the device are the Capacitors on one I fixed and the IGBTs on the other. I would think the fast acting fuse being on the line side since that is the side that draws most of the current will cause the fuse to blow quick than a breaker.I would suggest one other thing I did not see the back of the VFD. But if it is bare metal or aluminum I would have place a large aluminum block with heat sink compound to help distribute the heat from the IGBTs.
The back is metal, but I don't think it's the primary heat sink. There's a fan that pulls air through the device, over internal aluminum fins. Time will tell if it's sufficient.
It appears that the supply for the contactor control circuit comes directly from the incoming power after the circuit breaker. If so, your multi-wire control cable, and associated wiring inside the lathe, can see the full breaker current. Control circuitry must have a fuse to limit the current if using wiring rated less than the smallest overcurrent device ahead of the control circuit.
Very interesting. A good reason to improve power factor may be to reduce the heating of the VFD caps. Does it matter or is it just academic? Who knows.
An ac reactor should absolutely be used on the line side at the least. Especially if you are powering a spindle drive or axis drive. It not only does everything you mention but it also will protect the drive from inrush and motor spiking which will eventually lead to the breakdown of the drives internal components.
Hi folks. Panel breaker protects cable to control box. This cable should have same rating as the breaker. 25 Amp circuit breaker in the box protects 'in box' wiring, which should be able to handle 25 amps. The fast action 'semi-conductor' fuse may (as James said!) protect the expensive VFD. It's 'defence in depth' and a good idea when working with mains voltages. BobUK
Thank you for taking the time to produce this series - long-time subscriber and this series has been the most helpful for me in terms of my projects! Quick question: I'm setting up an L510 to run a 3 HP European machine at 50 Hertz - consistent with its highly-engineered design. The L510 230V, 3 HP model requires a 50 amp fast-acting fuse so I'll be using Bussmann 14x51mm fuses (FWP-50A14F) in a Bussmann 2-pole DIN holder (CH142DU). Dumb question, but I want to confirm that I want a 50-amp fuse on EACH leg of the 230V incoming line; is this correct? (Hoping you suffer fools graciously 😄) The alternative, which I believe is INCORRECT, would be to install 25-amp fuse on each incoming leg to provide a total of 50 amps of protection. I just want to double check. Related on the incoming circuit breaker, the rating on page 3-14 of the L510 manual is 21 amps for my unit; akin to the 19 amps on your unit. 1.25 X 21 = 26.25 amp 2-pole circuit breaker suggests I would want to move up to a 30-amp breaker. However, I plan on staying with a 25-amp breaker (approximately 1.19X the 21 amps) because the breaker is rated as a D-curve (the slowest tripping speed). The breakers appear to come in B-curve (fastest), C-curve (medium trip speed for smaller motors), and D-curve (motor-starting trip speed). Also, the motor NEVER starts under a load so I'm thinking 1.19X max current for the breaker will be sufficient. The specific breaker I'm planning on using is an Eaton FAZ-D25-2-NA. Finally, I recognize that you're a fellow maker, and NOT a consulting engineer, so I acknowledge that I am SOLELY RESPONSIBLE for any design decisions and related [hopefully NOT, but possibly] catastrophic outcomes. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks again!
Whilst I agree the safety difference may be marginal, wiring in all the safety features, as set out in the manual and as tested by UL, is potemtially one less loophole the insurance companies can use to avoid a pay out if by some awful chance your shop burned down due to a fault in the VFD! Otherwise great series and many thanks.
Hi James Rather than using a dremel to cut out sheet metal why not look into using a nibbler attachment mounted in a battery drill? Whilst noisy they cut leaving a smooth edge and virtually no dust.
James, thanks for this series--incredibly helpful!! Anyone wire this setup with a L510-201? I'm trying to figure out what contactor to use and how to wire the remote controls for a 220v input. I initially used a Fuji Electric SC-E1 contactor but cannot get the normally open start switch to activate the coil.
Another great video, another great job. One thing I am pretty sure I'll be adding to my 3 phase powered rotary machines like pillar drill, lathe (when I build it!) and maybe a sanding disk/belt would be an rpm meter (lathe especially) to save having to (mis)calculate speeds from the dialled in Hz of the VFD. Another little Arduino project? After that ... A DRO? 🤔🤔🤣🤣
If you find the right VFD, you can usually program it to your specific motor's rated speed, which consequently, will display an RPM value instead of a frequency, and thus, eliminates the need for a stand alone tachometer
Another excellent video! I like how you get into reasons for using and the recommendations and behind the 'need' for all the items. I am just curious to know how often you still go in and change the route/use of the v belts for the spindle drive? i.e. I thought the main reason for the VFD was to reduce/eliminate the need to fiddle with the v belts. ???? Also, have you done this on a milling machine? I just purchased a Grizzly mill/drill G0705 and there are lots of comments about what a hassle it is to have to change the v belts to change spindle speed. I googled to see if anyone had done this on a G0705 but couldn't find anything.
Hi sir... it's a great video, very helpful to me. Can you suggest me what capacity of semiconductor fuse should be used for 3 phase 7.5kW VFD DRIVE UNIT of elevator lift
Another reason to use a fuse instead of just a circuit breaker is that..If there is a large enough inrush of current the circuit breaker can actually be welded in the closed position. Where as a fuse can not. Thus a more safe circuit.
I have a question. I got the VFD for my "project" and have watched the videos again and again. Now IF a man wanted to install a "hard start kit" for a HVAC unit, only not on a HVAC unit, and wanted to "charge" the capacitor from the wall, to give it an initial charge, how long would he leave it in for to get the Amps up? Thanks any advice would be helpful.
One note on why the fast acting fuse when you already have the circuit breaker is that the circuit breaker doesn’t trip until the bimetal element inside heats up enough to cause the trip, maybe one to two seconds; the fast acting fuse just blows in a millisecond. This works best if the wiring from the fuse to the VFD runs a long distance and one of the wires is grounded before it gets to the VFD. I hope I make sense to you, at least this is how my electrician friend explained it to me. Are you running this from 110VAC to 3PH??
ANOTHER MASTER CLASS IN HOW A TUTIOURAL SHOULD BE PRESENTED CLEAR EASY TO UNDERSTAND ........if.....IF.... you decided to do another vid on VFD,s i would like to see one on ........ a single phase and 400v DC input ..........and wiring with 15 meter external controls 10v/24v for an indoor out door project ...were i would perhaps have a stationary machine with a hose that i could move around and control the VFD from near the end of the hose so you could start ....emergency stop... and reset and of corse VF potentiometer .... FWD/REV .... just rearly enjoy your vids and fully understand your watchers are pulling you and many different directions so i will pull you in another thanks do you have a paypal account i and others could buy you a coffe..?? Mark from down under Australia with thanks
You never did say why you need you need a second circuit breaker. It all came down to "... might as well". Why did you multiply the VFD amperage x 1.25?
That is just basic sizing of a breaker. 1.25 percent of rated amps. He put the fuse in to possibly protect the internal components of the drive that a breaker might not be fast enough to catch.
Best regard. In Colombia 220VAC are obtained with two lines of 110VAC each. My question is: Can the EMI filter CW4L2-20A-S be connected to a 2.2kW 12A VFD with 220VAC input and 220VAC three-phase output? This is to be connected to a 3HP and 9A three phase motor. Understanding that: _______________________________________________________________ POWER EMI FILTER POWER SUPPLY SUPPLY LINES IN CW4L2-20A-S OUT LINES FOR VFD (F1) 110VAC -> L L -> 110VAC (F2) 110VAC -> N N -> 110VAC (GND) Earth -> T --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for your attention, time and valuable response. Blessings of health and tranquility in these difficult times.
Nice job, its very safe now,thanks for the manual explanations.you really lost some weight, how did u do that,please I'm really interested in doing same cos I'm pretty much over weight.
I am confused. You state that you have a 30a breaker on the 120v circuit but the outlet is standard for 15a service. There are 'standard' outlets for 20a service that look similar or outlets for higher current service but the standard plug cannot be used.
James, quick question... Have followed your build avidly, and decided to upgrade my 0602 as well. I'm pretty sure I've got things spot on as far as the setup is concerned. As I power on, though (stop switch closed, momentary power button pressed, system powers up), as soon as I switch forward or reverse, the GFCI (20 amp) circuit that I'm drawing power off of trips. Thoughts?
If it's the GFCI tripping (and not the 20A over-current) it would usually be because of a ground fault, i.e. some current flowing back to the ground. That would usually mean something shorted or wired incorrectly. If the VFD powers up okay and runs until you try to start the motor, I would check all of the motor wiring to be sure it's correct. If it's the right motor, wired correctly for the right voltage, you shouldn't be exceeding 20A, but I guess it might be possible. You're sure your direction controls are connected only to the low-voltage terminals on the VFD, and not cross-connected in any way to the AC mains?
@@Clough42 James, thanks for getting back to me. did some triple checking... wiring connections good. direction controls are good. chased all the grounds and connections. changed out the GFCI outlets for a standard, works a champ now. I suppose it's possible I fixed the issue going over everything and tightening all the connections, but it does have me scratching my head... btw, I'm fitting a LED tachometer into the face of the box, just puzzling out whether to mount the sensor inside the headstock, or at the rear of the spindle. Incidentally, I asked a few months back about your choice of pot resistance for the speed control, turns out mine needs a different pot (doesn't turn through full range before I hit max freq - I decided to limit mine to 90 instead of 'overclocking' it to 120 like you did).
Just came across you excellent video series as I’m wiring control circuit for CNC VFD. I “know” how a contactor works but from video Neutral is to NO and Live is to NC circuit - how does this work ( current flow) when contacts are closed?
Why did the manual recommend a 600V rated fuse when the input voltage to the VFD is only 120V to ground? Also, if their idea is to have the fuse protect the VFD from a short on the motor, why are they not recommending to install the fuse between the motor and VFD? Last question...Instead if adding a 25A breaker into the crowded enclosure, why not replace the 30A branch circuit breaker in your electrical panel with a 25A breaker? Thanks, I appreciate your videos.
600v is just a rating . And the drive is internally protected from the load very well. The goal is to stop the drive from pulling a surge from the line side. Also code requires that drive to be protected by a mccb a branch circuit breaker would never come close to protecting that drive fast enough.
@@beckyschwantes5287 it’s not “just the rating”. 600V fuses are a different fuse class than 250V. It won’t hurt anything to use 600V fuses but it’s completely pointless and a waste of money.
@@RB-xv4si they are over sizing the protection circuit. Single phasing a VFD is still a fairly new game. Also these drives are adjusting frequency and ramping down large loads it could absolutely over voltage. Plus that drive excepts different inputs voltages. They are trying to cover a range instead of fusing each voltage. What have you always heard about start and run capacitors? You can always use a larger voltage rated cap but don’t go lower.
I guess you haven't had any over heating problems in the cabinet? I ask because I have ordered a VFD same model as yours and the manual which I received suggested that the VFD have 120mm/4.72" clearance above it and 50mm/1.97" on either side. I guess that your fan at the bottom and the exhaust 'port' as the top is providing enough cooling.???
Regarding the fast acting fuse, what is the risk of using a 25amp 320v fuse rather than the 600v one that is specified? For this VFD, were the supply voltage is 110v, I would have assumed that a 320v fuse would have a sufficient factor of safety. Is the higher voltage rating on the specified fuse due potential of higher voltage come off the VFD in case of some type of breakdown (ie voltage generated off the motor as is spins down)?
I've been watching this whole series. I may have missed it, but is it possible to supply this VFD with 240v by utilizing both phases from your electrical box? I thought you did but it looks like you are plugging it into a regular 120v outlet.
Yup you missed it. Here's the info from where he bought it at Amazon... "Teco Variable Frequency Drive, 1 HP, 115 Volts 1 Phase Input, 230 Volts 3 Phase Output, L510-101-H1, VFD Inverter for AC motor control"
Couldn't one run it off a 20amp circuit? i.e. I had an electrician install a dedicated outlet with a 20 amp circuit which was based upon the original motor Grizzly supplied motor whose manual called for a minimum 20 amp circuit. Do I have to now get the circuit upgraded to 30 amp. Couldn't I just run with the 20amp circuit? Isn't the worst that could happen is I trip the breaker? And couldn't I just install a 20amp quick blow fuse?
You are basing your protection on the drive input amperage not the motor. You have to be capable of carrying 1.25 percent of the rated amps. Your wiring has to be able to carry it also. I doubt you could get it to run on a 20 amp breaker , I think the inrush current would trip it. VFDs have quite a bit of inrush while it charges the caps
Ok I have all my parts on the way to put my vdf in a box and wire it for safety with a breaker and fuse, My question is what is the magnetic contactor for? Do you have a link for this? Also I want to add a emergency stop button and a green start button with the linear potentiometer. I was looking at a box that includes the start and stop just a little confused about wiring that up how your lathe is set up. Remind you Im using this vdf and my motor to run a homemade belt grinder.
No problem! Program your VFD to use the digital I/O terminal and you will have multiple options for what you want to happen when the estop circuit is high. Also your VFD will more than likely have a parameter to set 3 wire start stop circuit up where the VFD will automatically latch the start input and you won’t have to wire a latch with an auxiliary relay.
I was pretty sure he wanted to keep the controls at they were on the lathe. And partly safety so that when the E-stop is pressed it cuts power to the lathe motor entirely so in case of a VFD fault you can still be safe.
Hi, Thank you for your tutorial. I am patterning my lathe 3ph motor and VFD after yours. I can not find whar contactor you used? could you give me that info? Thanks, Shawn....
Why do you want to incorporate a contactor? Just one more component to fail and when it does it a lovely weld. A properly sized mccb and ac reactor are what you should really worry about
It serves as a power switch to turn power on and off to the VFD. And since it's wired to the E-Stop, it provides a convenient way to do this quickly in an emergency.
@@Clough42 But... If you are using an external braking resistor, do you really want to cut power to the VFD, preventing the spindle from stopping quickly with the external resistor? The spindle will just freewheel.
@@billh308 I see your point. If I had an external braking resistor on this setup, that might be a better option. If course I would then need some other switch to control the contactor, because I still want to be able to power down the VFD when it isn't in use.
@@Clough42 I'm configuring a VFD for my 220v 12x36 lathe, I think I am going to use a DPST switch on the mains before the VFD, skipping the contactor. I believe the Teco VFD I have has a function that will prevent it from running on power up if the external switch is in the forward or reverse position.
James, I want to install a VFD on my drill press to control the rpm’s. It is the Delta 20” floor model. I don’t know of any other functions that I would need to control. It is 115 /230 volts, currently wired 115. Would you change it to 230 and which VFD would you recommend sir? Thanks in advance and I enjoy your channel very much sir!!! Bobby
When it shuts off, does it display an error code? I wonder if it's trying to accelerate a heavy load too quickly and hitting a low voltage condition. You might try slowing down the ramp up time. But even if I put on a heavy chuck and speed it up quickly, the VFD doesn't seem to complain.
i will be doing the same installation to my machine that is just like yours can i contact you. can i get the schematics of your installation hope to hear from you cheers mate
This was all really cool to see. I am curious why you chose to mount everything in a separate enclosure when you could have mounted the VFD behind the control panel like Grizzly does with the G0752? Just easier to film and/or keep things straight in your head? Have you ever tried to install the digital RPM readout or DRO that might also be similar to the Grizzly product but at a cheaper price for better quality? Again thanks for the video series, I feel comfortable enough to start researching how I can apply this to my ShopSmith tools and eventually to my future G0602 and G0704. Any tips on what I might research that might be different for a higher HP motor?
Do you have a way to contact you, I've got a question, that no one seems to be able to answer. It's concerning the wiring on a three-phase motor with regards to the vfd, and you're the only one that would seem to be able to answer it.
Awesome video! I see you are trying to stay up to code. Technically you should have a mccb circuit breaker protecting a VFD. Also that breaker you installed appeared to be an accessory circuit breaker. If an mccb will not be installed that din rail breaker needs to have a UL 489 designation at the very least.
@@beckyschwantes5287 I have all the contactors and startup switches on mine, mine's a more industrial style lathe. I would like to add the feature of a variable speed in between the gear changes of an engine lathe. however when you engage the drive lever it automatically shuts off the vfd, it's sensing a short. I was trying to think of a way to make the three-phase motor variable speed without removing all the safety equipment and everything that's associated with it.... putting it inline after the start-up relays...
@@dbuilder81 you have a contactor before the VFD? Are you sure it is sensing a short or could the coil of the contactor be dropping out for some reason and dropping the power to the drive? Is your lathe a servo shift where the spindle hunts back and forth while the transmission engages a new gear? You should have someone else pull the spindle lever and you stand back and watch the contactor. Make sure that it doesn’t drop out and open the contacts.
Nice work!! I have a question that is really making my head spin. I did watch your video a couple of times and I did not find where the contactor wires are coming from, since you bring only two sets of wires from the front control panel on the lathe.
There are five cables coming out of the control box: 1) Power input cable that goes to the wall outlet 2) Three-phase motor cable (black) that goes directly to the motor 3) Small fan cable (gray) that goes directly to the fan on the motor 4) Control cable (gray, 9 wires) that goes to the direction lever and speed control knob 5) Contactor switch cable (gray, 4 wires) that goes to the e-stop and start buttons to control the contactor Sorry if that wasn't clear. Does that answer your question?
Clough42 Yes!! Thanks a lot!! I’m doing it but using a 220v 1800 RPM motor. That means I can use the same L510. Any recommendations? Do I have to use 2 fuse boxes and two circuit breakers? My lathe is a 12x36 and I have the reverse forward switch on the lower axel carriage. I’ve noticed 4 wires coming out of the reverse and forward switch. Do you have any idea of how I should hock up those wires to the VFD, since I did see only 3 wires coming out of your forward reverse switch? Thanks And sorry for asking so many questions. Hope you can help me.
@@reinaldogulli3235 If you're in North America and your 220V service is two hot phases, I would use a double circuit breaker and two fuses. The circuit breakers should be tied together so they both open if one trips. If you are somewhere else with single-phase 230V, I believe you only need one circuit breaker and one fuse, on the hot line.
I ECHO as loud as I can all the positive comments prior to this post. EXCELLENT James!!!!! Thank you!!!!
When I watch your vids I feel like I am watching an electrician master class! Thanks for the very informative video!
I really like your video thank you for sharing.. I have extensive experience with VFD Drives in industrial environments and would like to comment on why vfd(s) require both a breaker and fuse.. Both fuses and breakers come in various types but for this example let's just focus on two types thermal protection and short circuit protection. the DIN rail and household breakers like used here are thermally tripped. These breakers will protect against short circuit but the reaction time is very slow compared to the short circuit protection needed to properly protect the VFD. So in this case the breaker and fuse are suited for two different types of fault and complement each other... A 25A breaker in this case will not short circuit trip until the current load is 150%-225% of the rated current depending on the trip curve of the breaker. The fuse in this application is designed to quickly interrupt the circuit extremely fast when the current exceeds the rating. This will protect the VFD SCR DC Buss (Not IGBT(s) they are on the output side of the VFD) and additionally protect the circuit breaker from damaged in the event of a VFD failure. I have seen many breakers not used in tandem with uses fail because breaker contacts welded shut before the thermal mechanism tried to interrupt the circuit that resulted in fires and explosions. Motor controls should always use breaker and fuse! Always!!!!
It is true that the fast acting fuse will interrupt a high current more quickly than a breaker can, and they should be used to protect semiconductor equipment. But the fuse will not blow instantly simply if the rated current is exceeded. Fuses have an inverse time-current curve and thus they withstand a smaller overcurrent longer than a larger overcurrent. For example, according to the data sheet, the Eaton FWC-25A10F fuse will withstand 60 amps for 20 seconds before it begins to arc and open, whereas at 320 amps it will open in one millisecond. Semiconductor fuses do not prevent damage to semiconductors, but they will reduce the total damage within a device if something does go wrong. A breaker alone cannot afford the same protection.
Some additional facts about breakers. Whether they are residential or industrial, they are thermal-magnetic breakers. The thermal section in a breaker trips when heat is created by an overcurrent. This protects from small overcurrents and is inverse time-current related like all fuses. The breaker can hold overcurrents from a few seconds to several minutes, depending on overload. However, the magnetic section of a breaker protects from high overcurrents by magnetically pulling a trip mechanism that opens the breaker. There is no built in time delay in this case. This section either trips or it does not, depending on the amount of current. But in any case, a breaker cannot open as fast as a fuse, especially a fast acting fuse
A properly sized circuit breaker on the line side seems to be the norm on CNC builds that I have worked on the last few years. Most newer vfds are very well internally protected from short circuit, under/ over voltage, phase loss and thermal variations plus they are equipped with a dry relay to create a protection circuit and shunt trip the mccb. But who can argue with added protection!!!!! I was more concerned with the exclusion of the line side reactor especially while single phasing a VFD.
Thanks for that info - very useful
I might have said this before but thanks for making the best video on this subject on UA-cam. I don't know why more creators don't do this (put hot wire here, put neutral wire here etc.) They act like it's trade secrets or something. Most people come to UA-cam to either learn or validate their process. You expertly helped me learn and validate, so thank you. if possible could you do a video on how to control a spindle either using PWM or RS485 in the way only you can do. FYI my system is running smoothly, although manually through the VFD right nom. Thanks.
Happy to see you looking healthier man, enjoying your content
A very good video. My two cents are that first you don’t use a GFCI with a VFD. The VFD will trip the GFCI. One exception is the KB brand of VFDs which can be ordered with GFCI feature that prevent nuisance trips. The other tip is that if you use fast acting fuses you don’t need a breaker. It’s true that a breaker is convenient as that you can just reset it if it trips, but the fast acting fuses will blow well before the breaker reaches its limit anyway so you’ll be replacing fuses. And many companies, ABB being one, don’t recommend a breaker to protect the VFD. They prefer the right type of fuses. Thanks for the good quality video.
I guess you was glad you fixed the original DIN rail using tapped holes rather than nuts behind the back of the box.
Thanks!
Thank you for explaining everything! This helps to make informed decisions on components used in similar builds. Good production quality on the videos.
A few years ago I has done also important changes to my similar lathe. The DC-motor and all the electronics is replace with 2HP tri-phase motor 230V with VFD. I didn’t use the contactor anymore because forward and reverse controls on the input is controlled by 2 little relays. Push-bottoms and micro-switches generates the events, and all the supplied safety switches remains functional.
I am happy of your very nice video’s, good explanation and practical implementation. My video’s are more theoretically, because torque and speed goes not always together is the same direction.
There are lots of ways to do stuff like this. Thanks for sharing.
please give us a smile now and then...
This VFD series is great, perfect pace, and depth. Thanks! 👍👍👍
James
Just a comment, no question this time As a source for short lengths of quality shielded cable, look at computer ethernet cables. Reasonably priced, available in assorted lengths, and I feel that twisted pair is more immune to noise than straight thru wires
They also make rh45 panel connectors that are female on both sides, so with an extra ethernet you can cut this extra cable in half and use that for connections inside the cabinets. Plus it is extremely easy to connect/disconnect these cables as needed via the RJ45 jack
As always, I really enjoy your videos, keep up the great work and great content
John
James, you put together a very series of videos. Also, congrats on the “new look”.
I installed my first TECO VFD a while ago, and the same as you, my provided print manual only went up to maybe Section 5 plus an appendix if I remember correctly. I found the omitted parts, including the “missing Section 11” that you referred to, in an online version of the manual.
The reason for my comment is to possibly clarify the need for a fast action fuse. The manual states that the fast action fuse was needed to “protect peripheral equipment” and to then reference section 11. Section 11 led me to believe that peripheral devices are those attached to the VFD with cables attached to the VFD via the front comm port. It took a couple of tries to talk to the right person, but TECO tech department confirmed that “peripheral equipment” only means items connected to the VFD via cable to the front comm port. An external keypad or controller, for example. It does not include other things connected to the VFD, for example, the motor being driven by the VFD via the power terminal block, or items (potentiometers, switches, etc) connected by wire to the control circuit terminal block
All that written? My installation is like yours! I had a selection of fast fuses and fuse holders in my stash, so while I was waiting for a word back from TECO tech, I installed the fuse anyway so I could get the thing up and running, lol.
Thank you. Yeah, I have both versions of the manual. I think they call one of them a "user guide". The fast-acting fuses is shown in the wiring diagram, so I put it in. It isn't totally clear to me how a fast-acting fuse on the VFD input protects equipment connected to the comm port, but I guess there could be failure modes where that would matter. I would hate to be in a situation where current flow through a serial port is blowing a 25A fuse!
Lol, agree.
@@Clough42 If there is no fast acting fuse in the supply line, semiconductor failure can allow overcurrents to find a way to any portion of the electrical circuits within the VFD, including comm ports. It would not be the comm port that caused the fuse to blow, but rather that the comm port (and connected equipment) could become a victim by association! The fuse will trip before high currents can migrate that far.
@@Clough42 Well this is really istructive. There are lots of videos of all kinds of connections for VFDs but a small amount of them dedicated to the protection, this is specially true for chinese VFD manuals like mine (it was my fault). I have readed a lot of controversial comments in forums regarding the use and utility of type "J" fast fuses in modern VFDs where the protection will be more adecuate for fire protection probably than for protecting the monoblock components of the moder VFDs. Here in Spain our normative explicits the use of MCCB type B for VFDs and the fuse is redundant, probably a safe point for warranty. If you see different manuals you will see "nothing of line filters after de VFD" for example and this is very confusing.
Currently in the process of the same. Great info. Thank you for the content!
thank you for explaining the safety factor on the fuse holder. ocd is a fine thing in electricity
Could you make a video on your video production setup? Your videos are very well mic’d and very well produced. In a previous video you mentioned 3 cameras but nothing specific. Keep up the good work.
in the machine we use at work there are normally motor protection trips between the vfd and the motors. something like a Siemens SIRIUS. also one reason for the breakers on the main input is you could have more than one system in the electrical cabinet. so each vfd is independently protected
Ahh...good point. This is a simple installation, without as many requirements.
@@DieselRamcharger you are absolutely right! I wonder if he is just thinking about a regular motor starter set up.?
You might double check that . That is not standard practice. You would have to wire a signal back to the VFD and shut it down because the VFD would keep pumping voltage into that relay.
@@DieselRamcharger yea I see what you are saying. A motor driving the load would drive the dc buss voltage too high. Some applications have one drive powering multiple motors and you have to use a thermal relay on one or more of the motors but these are specially designed VFDs that can take that voltage back and dissipate it with resistors or send the voltage back to line. Some can use the braking resistor or an external unit to absorb the back load. It would be a sketchy set up for sure.
You are only allowed to wire that fuse from the top period!It's in the electrical code like and load.Line is always on the top load on the bottom .There is an exception to the rule in controls as part of an assembly to keep wires shorter
love the series, though i would request this video be added to the Lathe Variable Speed Upgrade playlist
nice!
very impressive vlog and video editing!
much respect for your knowledge, skills, abilities, craftsmanship and attention to details! 👍👍
Very good explanation
LMAO, love your opening statement & expression on people pointing things out.
James, well done, I agree with you on the marginal safety, the real test is if for some ungodly reason the motor is jammed and pulls too much current from the VFD the real test is the fuse you put in will blow before the electronics. I do not have much confidence with some of the VFDs made in china since they are poorly made. I would feel better if it was made in Japan, since they do a much better quality control and use better parts. But, I am working on a VFD repair no that was blown due to a brown out. What went bad on the device are the Capacitors on one I fixed and the IGBTs on the other. I would think the fast acting fuse being on the line side since that is the side that draws most of the current will cause the fuse to blow quick than a breaker.I would suggest one other thing I did not see the back of the VFD. But if it is bare metal or aluminum I would have place a large aluminum block with heat sink compound to help distribute the heat from the IGBTs.
The back is metal, but I don't think it's the primary heat sink. There's a fan that pulls air through the device, over internal aluminum fins. Time will tell if it's sufficient.
Another great video. Note your link to the Fuse is actually to the Fuse Holder.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks. You're absolutely right. The link should be fixed now.
It appears that the supply for the contactor control circuit comes directly from the incoming power after the circuit breaker. If so, your multi-wire control cable, and associated wiring inside the lathe, can see the full breaker current. Control circuitry must have a fuse to limit the current if using wiring rated less than the smallest overcurrent device ahead of the control circuit.
Good point. An inline fuse holder on the hot side of the control circuit would be easy to add.
Very interesting. A good reason to improve power factor may be to reduce the heating of the VFD caps. Does it matter or is it just academic? Who knows.
thanks for this great presentation..
Excellent video!
looking good
Great video. Excellent work. Thank you for sharing.
An ac reactor should absolutely be used on the line side at the least. Especially if you are powering a spindle drive or axis drive. It not only does everything you mention but it also will protect the drive from inrush and motor spiking which will eventually lead to the breakdown of the drives internal components.
Hi folks. Panel breaker protects cable to control box. This cable should have same rating as the breaker. 25 Amp circuit breaker in the box protects 'in box' wiring, which should be able to handle 25 amps. The fast action 'semi-conductor' fuse may (as James said!) protect the expensive VFD. It's 'defence in depth' and a good idea when working with mains voltages. BobUK
Is that noise filter rated for 25 amps?
Thank you for taking the time to produce this series - long-time subscriber and this series has been the most helpful for me in terms of my projects!
Quick question: I'm setting up an L510 to run a 3 HP European machine at 50 Hertz - consistent with its highly-engineered design. The L510 230V, 3 HP model requires a 50 amp fast-acting fuse so I'll be using Bussmann 14x51mm fuses (FWP-50A14F) in a Bussmann 2-pole DIN holder (CH142DU). Dumb question, but I want to confirm that I want a 50-amp fuse on EACH leg of the 230V incoming line; is this correct? (Hoping you suffer fools graciously 😄) The alternative, which I believe is INCORRECT, would be to install 25-amp fuse on each incoming leg to provide a total of 50 amps of protection. I just want to double check.
Related on the incoming circuit breaker, the rating on page 3-14 of the L510 manual is 21 amps for my unit; akin to the 19 amps on your unit. 1.25 X 21 = 26.25 amp 2-pole circuit breaker suggests I would want to move up to a 30-amp breaker. However, I plan on staying with a 25-amp breaker (approximately 1.19X the 21 amps) because the breaker is rated as a D-curve (the slowest tripping speed). The breakers appear to come in B-curve (fastest), C-curve (medium trip speed for smaller motors), and D-curve (motor-starting trip speed). Also, the motor NEVER starts under a load so I'm thinking 1.19X max current for the breaker will be sufficient. The specific breaker I'm planning on using is an Eaton FAZ-D25-2-NA.
Finally, I recognize that you're a fellow maker, and NOT a consulting engineer, so I acknowledge that I am SOLELY RESPONSIBLE for any design decisions and related [hopefully NOT, but possibly] catastrophic outcomes.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks again!
Whilst I agree the safety difference may be marginal, wiring in all the safety features, as set out in the manual and as tested by UL, is potemtially one less loophole the insurance companies can use to avoid a pay out if by some awful chance your shop burned down due to a fault in the VFD! Otherwise great series and many thanks.
👍👍 Good work... Really appreciated... Thanks a lot....
ahh excellent!!!! Are your plug's phase and notr side static?
Now you can tell others to fix their setups ;)good job
Hi James Rather than using a dremel to cut out sheet metal why not look into using a nibbler attachment mounted in a battery drill? Whilst noisy they cut leaving a smooth edge and virtually no dust.
That sounds good. As you saw, what I did took a lot of time and made a big mess.
Why not just use a jigsaw with a fine tooth metal cutting blade
James, thanks for this series--incredibly helpful!!
Anyone wire this setup with a L510-201? I'm trying to figure out what contactor to use and how to wire the remote controls for a 220v input. I initially used a Fuji Electric SC-E1 contactor but cannot get the normally open start switch to activate the coil.
Another great video, another great job. One thing I am pretty sure I'll be adding to my 3 phase powered rotary machines like pillar drill, lathe (when I build it!) and maybe a sanding disk/belt would be an rpm meter (lathe especially) to save having to (mis)calculate speeds from the dialled in Hz of the VFD. Another little Arduino project?
After that ... A DRO? 🤔🤔🤣🤣
The electronic leadscrew I have installed on it now has an RPM readout. And I do have a DRO for it sitting in a box. :)
@@Clough42 cool. Have you already done a video?
@@boblewis5558 for the electronic leadscrew? Yes. A whole series covering the hardware and software development.
@@Clough42 great! Only just discovered your channel. Will search them out. 👍👍👍
If you find the right VFD, you can usually program it to your specific motor's rated speed, which consequently, will display an RPM value instead of a frequency, and thus, eliminates the need for a stand alone tachometer
Another excellent video! I like how you get into reasons for using and the recommendations and behind the 'need' for all the items.
I am just curious to know how often you still go in and change the route/use of the v belts for the spindle drive? i.e. I thought the main reason for the VFD was to reduce/eliminate the need to fiddle with the v belts. ????
Also, have you done this on a milling machine? I just purchased a Grizzly mill/drill G0705 and there are lots of comments about what a hassle it is to have to change the v belts to change spindle speed. I googled to see if anyone had done this on a G0705 but couldn't find anything.
Im really enjoying your videos!
You have do e very well on your weight!
Keep it like so!
Thank you
good job
Hi sir... it's a great video, very helpful to me.
Can you suggest me what capacity of semiconductor fuse should be used for 3 phase 7.5kW VFD DRIVE UNIT of elevator lift
Another reason to use a fuse instead of just a circuit breaker is that..If there is a large enough inrush of current the circuit breaker can actually be welded in the closed position. Where as a fuse can not. Thus a more safe circuit.
very nice video one of the best
I have a question. I got the VFD for my "project" and have watched the videos again and again.
Now IF a man wanted to install a "hard start kit" for a HVAC unit, only not on a HVAC unit,
and wanted to "charge" the capacitor from the wall, to give it an initial charge, how long would he leave it in for
to get the Amps up? Thanks any advice would be helpful.
Product links could be updated, thanks for making these videos
Job done well., Great to watch.,
Good job sir
Whats the purpose of the contactor vs just using a main power switch to the vfd?
Nice job and safe
One note on why the fast acting fuse when you already have the circuit breaker is that the circuit breaker doesn’t trip until the bimetal element inside heats up enough to cause the trip, maybe one to two seconds; the fast acting fuse just blows in a millisecond. This works best if the wiring from the fuse to the VFD runs a long distance and one of the wires is grounded before it gets to the VFD. I hope I make sense to you, at least this is how my electrician friend explained it to me.
Are you running this from 110VAC to 3PH??
ANOTHER MASTER CLASS IN HOW A TUTIOURAL SHOULD BE PRESENTED CLEAR EASY TO UNDERSTAND ........if.....IF.... you decided to do another vid on VFD,s i would like to see one on ........ a single phase and 400v DC input ..........and wiring with 15 meter external controls 10v/24v for an indoor out door project ...were i would perhaps have a stationary machine with a hose that i could move around and control the VFD from near the end of the hose so you could start ....emergency stop... and reset and of corse VF potentiometer .... FWD/REV .... just rearly enjoy your vids and fully understand your watchers are pulling you and many different directions so i will pull you in another thanks do you have a paypal account i and others could buy you a coffe..?? Mark from down under Australia with thanks
question for you on the circuit breaker and fuse. my vfd is a 240 v input rather than 120, i should use a double pole breaker and 2 fuses, correct?
You never did say why you need you need a second circuit breaker. It all came down to "... might as well".
Why did you multiply the VFD amperage x 1.25?
That is just basic sizing of a breaker. 1.25 percent of rated amps. He put the fuse in to possibly protect the internal components of the drive that a breaker might not be fast enough to catch.
Best regard.
In Colombia 220VAC are obtained with two lines of 110VAC each.
My question is:
Can the EMI filter CW4L2-20A-S be connected to a 2.2kW 12A VFD with 220VAC input and 220VAC three-phase output?
This is to be connected to a 3HP and 9A three phase motor.
Understanding that:
_______________________________________________________________
POWER EMI FILTER POWER SUPPLY
SUPPLY LINES IN CW4L2-20A-S OUT LINES FOR VFD
(F1) 110VAC -> L L -> 110VAC
(F2) 110VAC -> N N -> 110VAC
(GND) Earth -> T
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your attention, time and valuable response.
Blessings of health and tranquility in these difficult times.
Nice..
Set my L510 up to show rpm insted of Hz ,useful to see what the rpm is set to before you start up the lathe..
That's on my list of things to do, along with a bunch of other stuff, like building a tach and working on developing an electronic lead screw.
Nice job, its very safe now,thanks for the manual explanations.you really lost some weight, how did u do that,please I'm really interested in doing same cos I'm pretty much over weight.
ua-cam.com/video/aImDLWtzxi8/v-deo.html
Is the 30A breaker in the panel also a C curve?
I am confused. You state that you have a 30a breaker on the 120v circuit but the outlet is standard for 15a service. There are 'standard' outlets for 20a service that look similar or outlets for higher current service but the standard plug cannot be used.
James,
quick question... Have followed your build avidly, and decided to upgrade my 0602 as well. I'm pretty sure I've got things spot on as far as the setup is concerned. As I power on, though (stop switch closed, momentary power button pressed, system powers up), as soon as I switch forward or reverse, the GFCI (20 amp) circuit that I'm drawing power off of trips. Thoughts?
If it's the GFCI tripping (and not the 20A over-current) it would usually be because of a ground fault, i.e. some current flowing back to the ground. That would usually mean something shorted or wired incorrectly. If the VFD powers up okay and runs until you try to start the motor, I would check all of the motor wiring to be sure it's correct. If it's the right motor, wired correctly for the right voltage, you shouldn't be exceeding 20A, but I guess it might be possible. You're sure your direction controls are connected only to the low-voltage terminals on the VFD, and not cross-connected in any way to the AC mains?
@@Clough42 James,
thanks for getting back to me. did some triple checking... wiring connections good. direction controls are good. chased all the grounds and connections. changed out the GFCI outlets for a standard, works a champ now. I suppose it's possible I fixed the issue going over everything and tightening all the connections, but it does have me scratching my head... btw, I'm fitting a LED tachometer into the face of the box, just puzzling out whether to mount the sensor inside the headstock, or at the rear of the spindle.
Incidentally, I asked a few months back about your choice of pot resistance for the speed control, turns out mine needs a different pot (doesn't turn through full range before I hit max freq - I decided to limit mine to 90 instead of 'overclocking' it to 120 like you did).
Another great video. You really ought to add this to the Playlist for the Lathe Variable Speed Upgrade (G0602 VFD) series.
James, any idea why the affiliate links aren’t working. Maybe too much time has passed?
Just came across you excellent video series as I’m wiring control circuit for CNC VFD. I “know” how a contactor works but from video Neutral is to NO and Live is to NC circuit - how does this work ( current flow) when contacts are closed?
I think you are looking at the auxiliary contacts. It has to get 120v to the coil to close the contacts and feed the VFD.
Awesome video! I just found your videos and they came at a good time. Lots of good information. Thank you!
You are welcome!
Why did the manual recommend a 600V rated fuse when the input voltage to the VFD is only 120V to ground? Also, if their idea is to have the fuse protect the VFD from a short on the motor, why are they not recommending to install the fuse between the motor and VFD? Last question...Instead if adding a 25A breaker into the crowded enclosure, why not replace the 30A branch circuit breaker in your electrical panel with a 25A breaker? Thanks, I appreciate your videos.
600v is just a rating . And the drive is internally protected from the load very well. The goal is to stop the drive from pulling a surge from the line side. Also code requires that drive to be protected by a mccb a branch circuit breaker would never come close to protecting that drive fast enough.
@@beckyschwantes5287 it’s not “just the rating”. 600V fuses are a different fuse class than 250V. It won’t hurt anything to use 600V fuses but it’s completely pointless and a waste of money.
@@RB-xv4si they are over sizing the protection circuit. Single phasing a VFD is still a fairly new game. Also these drives are adjusting frequency and ramping down large loads it could absolutely over voltage. Plus that drive excepts different inputs voltages. They are trying to cover a range instead of fusing each voltage. What have you always heard about start and run capacitors? You can always use a larger voltage rated cap but don’t go lower.
I guess you haven't had any over heating problems in the cabinet? I ask because I have ordered a VFD same model as yours and the manual which I received suggested that the VFD have 120mm/4.72" clearance above it and 50mm/1.97" on either side. I guess that your fan at the bottom and the exhaust 'port' as the top is providing enough cooling.???
Those dimensions are relying just on the drive fan
Regarding the fast acting fuse, what is the risk of using a 25amp 320v fuse rather than the 600v one that is specified? For this VFD, were the supply voltage is 110v, I would have assumed that a 320v fuse would have a sufficient factor of safety. Is the higher voltage rating on the specified fuse due potential of higher voltage come off the VFD in case of some type of breakdown (ie voltage generated off the motor as is spins down)?
It was intended to protect the ac reactor
I've been watching this whole series. I may have missed it, but is it possible to supply this VFD with 240v by utilizing both phases from your electrical box? I thought you did but it looks like you are plugging it into a regular 120v outlet.
Yup you missed it. Here's the info from where he bought it at Amazon...
"Teco Variable Frequency Drive, 1 HP, 115 Volts 1 Phase Input, 230 Volts 3 Phase Output, L510-101-H1, VFD Inverter for AC motor control"
I’m working on a vfd I’m having issues with no voltage output to the motor any tips?
Couldn't one run it off a 20amp circuit? i.e. I had an electrician install a dedicated outlet with a 20 amp circuit which was based upon the original motor Grizzly supplied motor whose manual called for a minimum 20 amp circuit. Do I have to now get the circuit upgraded to 30 amp. Couldn't I just run with the 20amp circuit? Isn't the worst that could happen is I trip the breaker? And couldn't I just install a 20amp quick blow fuse?
You are basing your protection on the drive input amperage not the motor. You have to be capable of carrying 1.25 percent of the rated amps. Your wiring has to be able to carry it also. I doubt you could get it to run on a 20 amp breaker , I think the inrush current would trip it. VFDs have quite a bit of inrush while it charges the caps
They also list Ground Fault detector/ breaker but I believe yours is just a regular breaker. No problems with that?
Where did you see that. ? You would have to spec out the gf protector very well to avoid nuisance tripping
Ok I have all my parts on the way to put my vdf in a box and wire it for safety with a breaker and fuse, My question is what is the magnetic contactor for? Do you have a link for this? Also I want to add a emergency stop button and a green start button with the linear potentiometer. I was looking at a box that includes the start and stop just a little confused about wiring that up how your lathe is set up. Remind you Im using this vdf and my motor to run a homemade belt grinder.
No problem! Program your VFD to use the digital I/O terminal and you will have multiple options for what you want to happen when the estop circuit is high. Also your VFD will more than likely have a parameter to set 3 wire start stop circuit up where the VFD will automatically latch the start input and you won’t have to wire a latch with an auxiliary relay.
How about adding an SPD (Type2)?
What model magnetic contractor did you use? Not finding suitable one on eBay. Maybe I’m using the wrong search terms?
I re-used the contactor that came with the lathe. I think it's a Siemens 3TB41 22E 110V.
Hi
Would you upload wiring diagram?
May I ask why did you have to use a motor contactor for controlling the motor when you can use the VFD through the multi functions digital input..?
I was pretty sure he wanted to keep the controls at they were on the lathe. And partly safety so that when the E-stop is pressed it cuts power to the lathe motor entirely so in case of a VFD fault you can still be safe.
He isn’t using the contactor to control the motor he is using it as a power disconnect to the VFD
Not sure if you have any plans to do this in the future but I'd absolutely love to see a video on adding a braking resistor to your setup.
I would like to have that, too. Unfortunately, the specific VFD model I have doesn't support an external resistor.
@@Clough42 that drive is stopping that chuck with no resistor?
@@beckyschwantes5287 correct. It dissipates the energy through a transistor, but it has limited capacity.
The manual appears to 'suggesst' installation of a ground fault circuit interupter/breaker. You appeared to just us a 'regular' style. ????
Where did you see that? It called for an mccb. Which is standard for that application.
Do you sell a complete setup 220V (EU)?
Hi, Thank you for your tutorial. I am patterning my lathe 3ph motor and VFD after yours. I can not find whar contactor you used? could you give me that info? Thanks, Shawn....
Why do you want to incorporate a contactor? Just one more component to fail and when it does it a lovely weld. A properly sized mccb and ac reactor are what you should really worry about
@@beckyschwantes5287 This what the E-stop uses to drop out power. If the VFD smokes, you want to kill power to it.
hey question... about the contactor... if it is not being used to start/stop motor, is it needed?
It serves as a power switch to turn power on and off to the VFD. And since it's wired to the E-Stop, it provides a convenient way to do this quickly in an emergency.
@@Clough42 But... If you are using an external braking resistor, do you really want to cut power to the VFD, preventing the spindle from stopping quickly with the external resistor? The spindle will just freewheel.
@@billh308 I see your point. If I had an external braking resistor on this setup, that might be a better option. If course I would then need some other switch to control the contactor, because I still want to be able to power down the VFD when it isn't in use.
@@Clough42 I'm configuring a VFD for my 220v 12x36 lathe, I think I am going to use a DPST switch on the mains before the VFD, skipping the contactor. I believe the Teco VFD I have has a function that will prevent it from running on power up if the external switch is in the forward or reverse position.
@@billh308 Yes, the L510 has that feature. Just make sure your switch is rated for the horsepower you'll be pulling.
Dude how did you lose so much weight in months?
Hay can any one tell me the control wiring for schneider soft stater altistart 22
How did you lose the weight ?
Counting calories and eating less. There's no magic.
James, I want to install a VFD on my drill press to control the rpm’s. It is the Delta 20” floor model. I don’t know of any other functions that I would need to control. It is 115 /230 volts, currently wired 115. Would you change it to 230 and which VFD would you recommend sir? Thanks in advance and I enjoy your channel very much sir!!! Bobby
Is that a single-phase motor? If so, you'll need to replace it with a three phase motor to control it with a standard VFD.
They make single phase input/output vfds you don’t have to change anything as long as it’s not an extremely high hp motor
was all the wires you ran in the box #10 ?
All of the power wiring is #10 stranded. I think most of it is THHN.
I have a problem with mine. if I start it at 60.00 the machine shuts off. anything over 45.00 on start up it will shut off.
When it shuts off, does it display an error code? I wonder if it's trying to accelerate a heavy load too quickly and hitting a low voltage condition. You might try slowing down the ramp up time. But even if I put on a heavy chuck and speed it up quickly, the VFD doesn't seem to complain.
is your motor 120 volts vfd rated ??
No it’s 240v 3phase and yes it’s inverter rated.
No bootlace ferrules on your wires! Some one is living dangerously.
Danger is my middle name. :) Actually, judging by what other people say, Trouble is my middle name.
i will be doing the same installation to my machine that is just like yours can i contact you. can i get the schematics of your installation hope to hear from you cheers mate
This was all really cool to see. I am curious why you chose to mount everything in a separate enclosure when you could have mounted the VFD behind the control panel like Grizzly does with the G0752? Just easier to film and/or keep things straight in your head? Have you ever tried to install the digital RPM readout or DRO that might also be similar to the Grizzly product but at a cheaper price for better quality? Again thanks for the video series, I feel comfortable enough to start researching how I can apply this to my ShopSmith tools and eventually to my future G0602 and G0704. Any tips on what I might research that might be different for a higher HP motor?
I do not think, According to the NEC, that the fuse was needed. Just a breaker, contractor, and heaters, if they are not in the motor.
Yes your right. It is just an application request. Code does call for the breaker to be a mccb though.
Do you have a way to contact you, I've got a question, that no one seems to be able to answer. It's concerning the wiring on a three-phase motor with regards to the vfd, and you're the only one that would seem to be able to answer it.
What’s the question
Awesome video! I see you are trying to stay up to code. Technically you should have a mccb circuit breaker protecting a VFD. Also that breaker you installed appeared to be an accessory circuit breaker. If an mccb will not be installed that din rail breaker needs to have a UL 489 designation at the very least.
@@beckyschwantes5287 I have all the contactors and startup switches on mine, mine's a more industrial style lathe. I would like to add the feature of a variable speed in between the gear changes of an engine lathe. however when you engage the drive lever it automatically shuts off the vfd, it's sensing a short. I was trying to think of a way to make the three-phase motor variable speed without removing all the safety equipment and everything that's associated with it.... putting it inline after the start-up relays...
@@dbuilder81 you have a contactor before the VFD? Are you sure it is sensing a short or could the coil of the contactor be dropping out for some reason and dropping the power to the drive?
Is your lathe a servo shift where the spindle hunts back and forth while the transmission engages a new gear? You should have someone else pull the spindle lever and you stand back and watch the contactor. Make sure that it doesn’t drop out and open the contacts.
Also what is your input voltage and motor voltage and did you set the parameters in the drive to define them?
Hey dude, what happened to you? where did you leave your other half?
At the dinner table, and at the gym. :)
Nice work!!
I have a question that is really making my head spin.
I did watch your video a couple of times and I did not find where the contactor wires are coming from, since you bring only two sets of wires from the front control panel on the lathe.
There are five cables coming out of the control box:
1) Power input cable that goes to the wall outlet
2) Three-phase motor cable (black) that goes directly to the motor
3) Small fan cable (gray) that goes directly to the fan on the motor
4) Control cable (gray, 9 wires) that goes to the direction lever and speed control knob
5) Contactor switch cable (gray, 4 wires) that goes to the e-stop and start buttons to control the contactor
Sorry if that wasn't clear. Does that answer your question?
Clough42
Yes!!
Thanks a lot!!
I’m doing it but using a 220v 1800 RPM motor. That means I can use the same L510.
Any recommendations? Do I have to use 2 fuse boxes and two circuit breakers?
My lathe is a 12x36 and I have the reverse forward switch on the lower axel carriage. I’ve noticed 4 wires coming out of the reverse and forward switch. Do you have any idea of how I should hock up those wires to the VFD, since I did see only 3 wires coming out of your forward reverse switch?
Thanks
And sorry for asking so many questions.
Hope you can help me.
@@reinaldogulli3235 If you're in North America and your 220V service is two hot phases, I would use a double circuit breaker and two fuses. The circuit breakers should be tied together so they both open if one trips. If you are somewhere else with single-phase 230V, I believe you only need one circuit breaker and one fuse, on the hot line.
You talkied about 10 gauge wire. I thought you used 12 gauge wire for the incoming power. ?????
That wouldn’t be good.