I'm 3 years late, but I knew you were going to apply ferrites. My 12k solar inverter (actually I have 2 for 24k) are both EMP protected internally and both came with numerous ferrites to install on each PV panel and critical load accessories in the home. UA-cam reviews are numerous explaining how ferrites counter damaging voltage peaks such as that from either a natural or manmade EMP event. Your channel and content draws me in on all the various technologies you apply to your home machine shop. Thank you.
Im sooo happy with this explanation! I’ve built a CNC milling machine. As soon as the spindle starts rotating my cnc controller board freezes. Spent hours on troubleshooting. Thanks to you video i can hook up an oscilloscope and also measure my EMI before and after ferrites and filter. Cheers mate. Wish u the best
This video summed up EMI better in 20 minutes than my teachers could explain in 4 years of engineering school. I found this video while trying to track down an interference issue for one of our customers with our PCB. Thank you for the detail you put into this and I'll definitely be subscribing!
westinghouse owes this guy a big thank you- if not a big fat check. This video series made it dead simple to understand how to use this model of VFD, I'm sure a lot of us (myself included) went with the L510 for that reason.
I am absolutely amazed at the breadth and depth of your knowledge and experience in the various disciplines you display ! On top of that the production quality of your videos is superb ! Definitely in the top percentile of machinist / maker vids available. Would you consider doing a shop tour vid ? The jealousy factor in your shop organization is strong in me since I tend to have things scattered everywhere. Keep up the great work !
I'm extremely limited in my electronics knowledge but your videos I've viewed thus far exposes me to some degree of theory and understanding but of more value to me, the practical application that I can actually duplicate. This is difficult to locate for a very lay person like me. Thank you.
When you said "touch my cameras" I immediately thought of static electricity. I get that only with my cameras. I touch my camera, then a nice little shock. Now I am always so aware of this that I pause every time. Haha. Great video!
Thank you. I've been trying to figure out how to run my 3 phase lathe through the control panel with vfd. I didn't realize you just bypass the control box w/contactors and go straight to the motor. Thank you for all the added configuration explanation.
I just binged watched several of your videos and can not believe the how good the information is, how well it is presented and how thorough each video is. I'm subbed to A LOT of machinists, woodworkers, welders and other makers and your channel is in the top 5% in my opinion. I'm looking forward to going through every video now and catching up. I'm on the midst of a restoration of a Clausing 5914 lathe. I've done a total teardown of it and I am considering replacing the hydraulic reeves drive, even though I completely rebuilt it, with a poly-v and VFD setup. The only thing that keeps me from committing to the idea is the high pitched sound coming from the motor/vfd that I've heard on just about every setup I've seen in person or online. My understanding is that it's related to the carrier frequency and is unavoidable. I'd love to modernize my 5914 but I'm not sure I could stomach listening to that hitch pitched sound while working. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!
Thank you! In my experience, changing the carrier frequency only changes the pitch of the whine. If you have hearing loss in the higher frequencies, you might be able to set the carrier frequency high enough that you can't hear it, but that (un)fortunately doesn't work for me. On my setup, the whine almost completely disappeared when I set the VFD carrier mode to 3-phase PWM (parameter 11-02). I made the parameter changes step by step in this video, so you can listen and hear the results of the different parameters: ua-cam.com/video/RQKPtf7stiw/v-deo.html
@@Clough42 Thank you!! I can't count the number of videos I've watched on VFDs. Yours in the only one that address the 3-phase PWM mode to eliminate that noise. Every video I've seen has the whine. Fantastic stuff! I just ordered the L510 and will be following your build exactly. Thank you!
Mate, that is exactly the kind of video of been trying to find! In depth but to the point, I've learn't more about frequencies and EMI from this simple video than I have from a $500 Schneider provided variable speed drive course. Thank you very much for this video, it has taught me alot and I appreciate your time and effort in producing this video! From New Zealand 👍
highly underrated video. this should pop up for everyone who is searching for vfd installation, especially when doing cnc conversions of mills and lathe :) thank you for this - and many other vids
Great video. It’s actually a re-run for me though. I watched it last year after your ELS project. Motor problems with my import bench top lathe brought me back. I knew when I first watched this series that I’d be using your method to improve my lathes capabilities. The vfd arrived today, my filter and ferrites will be here tomorrow, and my motor should be here Friday. If not for your contributions to the hobby machining community I’d be replacing a crappy brushless dc motor and control board every year or so. I really appreciate everything you do James and I’m certain so does everyone else. Keep up the good works👍
It is fascinating to me which of your videos get more likes - the VFD video got over a hundred thousand views and this important video only got three thousand .....great video in my opinion !
Oh this is excellent info. I always thought that VFD switching noise would be differential mode on the power wires. Huh. Well I have to go move a LOT of ferrites in my shop. Thank you.
Excellent video. Though your EMI/RFI issue is affecting camera gear, that is an even bigger problem for radio gear (ham radio specifically). The hard part - as you alluded to in the beginning of the video - viewers of the video would be completely unaware of the issue had you not pointed it out. Same is true for likely everyone else in your neighborhood - unless they experience problems (such as the TV in the family room, or your neighbors tv, flickering when you are trying to run the lathe). Knowing it is coming from your lathe is impossible to know unless it is tracked down. So finding the problem up front - and taking the steps to mitigate it as you are progressing with the upgrade - is most excellent work - even if the reason you did it was for your own benefit at the time (keeping your own camera and production gear working correctly). The issue could be a lot more wide-spread to others, yet they may never know the source or how to resolve the issues.
I have a problem with a Renogy pure sinewave inverter inducing noise on a hydrographic survey sonar system. I'll try these filtering approaches. I really appreciate your intelligent and unpretentious approach to explaining what is going on here.
Your video is absolutely brilliant! I am an Electrical Contractor who is doing to work for a big company which uses VFDs,on there production lines. They are having a lot of problems with EMI which is raising "Hell" with the production process due to VFD dropping out and shutting down. They thought the problem was insulation break down on the THHN wiring feeding the motors from the VFDs, but I told them it most probably is EMI . Your very easy and simple in depth video, is easy to following and understand. It shows what's really going on and the solution to theses problems. I suggested to use ferrites on the output of the VFD and a line filter on the input power feeding the VFDs. Your video is exactly correct, as to how and why noise affects digital equipment so adversely. Thank you Michael
Great video. I've got ferries knocking around, I'll have to get a couple of those filter modules to have a play. Enjoy the demo's you put together using basic equipment and your explanation for what's going on and why/how the kit is set up is great.
I purchased a 90 year old, 2 ton Lodge and Shipley 16 inch motor lathe that is in great shape but it's cumbersome to change speeds and direction and it has a top speed of 400 RPM. So I've changed the motor to a 5 HP - 3 phase with a VFD in hopes this will make the machine more usable. I just finished installing the motor and am about to wire up the controller and your video was just what I needed. Great job! Thanks.
I've watched 5 of Your videos today. And now I have to go back and start at the beginning. Because there's so much to learn. Things I even didn't know I didn't know! Awesome stuff! 👍
Thank you @Clough42. This is the best of EMI explanation, and you solved my problem too. My PC Monitor is loosing signal when my water pump on and off. I found your EMI video is very simple yet very clear and I can see the signal of the noise. Amazing job, luv it!
Thank you so much for this video, we have a Shapoko Pro XXL cnc that kept disconnecting when ever the spindle was turned on. I found the same emi filter on amazon, bought 14 ferrite cores, and moved everything over into a new enclosure and so far zero Disconnects. Thank you so much. My previous emi filters from cnc4u were useless and the screened cable did nothing until adding all the ferries 👌 your amazing.
I'm not going to go into detail as a industrial Electrician, some of what you say is correct and you are on the right track. Some drives (VFD's) are sold with internal and or external filters (harmonic issues and interference down stream filtering). But in the industry it is common practice and generally a standard requirement to use the above mentioned filtering with shielded cabling from the motor to the drive or a shielded cabinet, with the shield (drain) earthed at one end (VFD or cabnet). also the most important wire is the Earth, don't forget...
By earth, are you saying the equipment grounding conductor or are you talking about an isolated ground? Because James is using an EGC and isolated grounds are only really used in data centers and hospitals. Small VFD's (
I am planning on installing a VFD on a lathe. This video series was extremely helpful, it answered all my concerns and provided information on aspects that I had not thought about. Awesome, thanks for the video.
You should be a teacher! Everything you said made a lot of sense. I am a novice ham radio operator and I can use your informations in a lot of ways. Thank you and good luck!
Thanks for this info. I've been working with my VFD for my cnc spindle for a while, dealing with various noise in the system, and grounding issues for the controller. still not done, have made progress, but this info sheds light on what i've been dealing with that i couldn't see, and how to fix it further. btw, i've gotten positive results grounding both ends of the shielding around the cable that runs from the vfd to the spindle. some sources had me leave the spindle side of the cable shield unattached, and that was just plain wrong. i suspect those ferrite cores will further catch high frequency oscillations in that shield, so i'll get those, and also that power filter sounds like a good idea.
I found your channel a few days ago while looking for answers to setting up my L510 VFD. This particular episode was very informative. At this point, am not sure whether I'll need to act on this advice, as we're not quite ready to take the maiden voyage. This should happen in a couple days. Thanks so much for all your great advice!
The ham radio operators of the world thank you LOL. About to wire one of these on to a drill press. Had no idea what it would have done to my other hobby.
EMI troubleshooting: you might see some benefits from mechanically mounting the drive, motor and EMI filter all on a common metal ground plane (no long green wire) and *solidly* grounding them locally. Like how you used the cores in common and differential mode, but this problem is almost certainly majority common-mode. A (much) shorter drive to motor cable will help by making the current loop physically smaller. This problem is created by the IGBT's (inside the inverter) switching on/off and snapping the current off. I'd be curious to see what, if any, steps they took in the layout to mitigate the problem. Great video and solid "change made it better/change made it worse" shooting. Kudos.
Hey James, I really enjoy your content. Thanks for filling knowledge gaps for hobbyists who know enough to get started, but not enough to get out of the valley between "I bought a machine" and "my machine is useful". There are lots of content creators in this space, but good explanations targeted at hobby machines are extremely rare. BTW, I think your mic was causing 2nd and 3rd order harmonics on the left side of the trace on your scope. Thanks again for all the great info.
You helped me, after installing a new variable speed pond pump, it affected my AM radio so much so I couldn’t listen to it. I will try the device you used, fingers crossed.
totally awesome, thanks so much. This will help resolve an issue we are having in the lab. I pray for God to reward you for helping people. May you live long, be wealthy and be give peace of mind and a guided heart.
Oh man, best explanation I've ever heard of how a common mode choke, class x and y capacitors work together. And, now I understand better why putting ferrites on the lines for some car-neons I used for decoration in my youth actually did reduce data issues. (I'm pretty sure it only affected my audio because I used a digital, but copper, signal line between my computer and speakers, and that line by necessity laid parallel to the neon lines....)
Thanks for the advice, I haven't ran into this noise problem and don't know if I will, I watched this video when I was doing my build and implemented this before it ever became a problem.
Great videos on VFD application! Informative and very well produced. The high quality of the video and audio helps greatly in making the programs watchable.
Another thing that helps is using shielded VFD cable grounded at both ends. It gives a low impedance path for the common mode current to travel so it doesn’t travel through the building as much.
I had this issue with my VFD and moved the cables around very carefully to make sure nothing was close to the VFD cable lol. Plus some taped up grounded tinfoil I think. I like your idea better! I have the same ol' Rigol DS1052 scope too haha
Another practical emi issue I've seen: A pressbrake where I work has the *signal wires from the plc running to the control panel through the same conduit as the power.* While troubleshooting a blown plc, one of many discoveries was the *110v power was emitting 9.6vac to 2 of the 16vdc signal wires.* I did test that it wasn't false firing. It wasn't, but it was only a few volts short. Without extensive modification (has to pass through a swivel) or rewiring it all, I was able to move the signal wires as far away inside the conduit as i could and got that to drop to about 6vac.
I can tell you this... I have two rings on each motor cable going to a 460V 15HP sewage pump from a VFD that was causing havoc on another system and they did WONDERS.
Great video, and I'm enjoying it as I'm also dealing with similar issues. I'm going to nitpick just a little at 10 minutes. You don't /want/ to pass 60Hz common mode signals, noise or otherwise. You only want to pass 60Hz differentially. And that filter /will/ filter low frequency CM signals as well. I only say this because I've been working on sorting CM noise issues on my audio equipment if I happen to plug my microphone preamp into a USB charger. The dominant CM signal is 60Hz fundamental frequency. A CM choke won't help you here(unless it's impractically massive and expensive), that's why there's the CY configuration in the middle. They're dumping the low frequency stuff to ground.
Right. You want to increase the common-mode impedance as much as possible. You want to pass the differential only, and even that can be filtered down to a pure sine wave at the operating AC frequency of the motor, though a common mode choke won't do the latter.
Yes, agree. I had about 5 VFDs radiating in the workshop and the only way I was able to completely resolve my noise and earth leakage issues (causing noise in limit switches) was to use shielded or braided cable
shielded cables do not protect against the device causing interference in the supply network. They protect the signal in the line and the neighboring lines. It may help with your problem with the endstopswitches but it doesn’t solve the problem with devices wich are connected to the same power source
@@andreasbrunnhofer Agreed, it's a good idea to have an incoming filter on low voltage single phase AC. For three phase inputs, filtering isn't usually necessary as it's typically built-in (unless it's a VERY cheap drive). Foil and braided shielded cable is a necessity on the motor end. On a small drive like this, you would rarely need any line reactor or filtering on the output.
First, THANK YOU! I sell sewage pump systems for a living and I sold one to a city last year for a large outdoor application with two VFDs running two 460V, 15 HP submersible sewage pumps. They bought the whole system, but wanted to use their own Sensaphone unit to make a phone call to their office in case of a high water alarm in their pit. This was very important to them, but we found that the sensaphone autodialer was receiving all sorts of signals from it's power line causing "phantom" button presses on the unit, stopping the phone calls from being made, and therefore keeping the city from being made aware and taking action when homes might be in danger of having sewage backed up into their homes. It would be a very unlikely scenario, but it happened to them years ago and that's why they wanted to upgrade the pump and control units. I had almost given up on my attempts to fix the issues because honestly, how do you fix what you can't see? I had tried everything I could think of that I could control, but then I came across your video. I applied a 12V EMI noise filter (AMAZON) to the sensaphone circuit and ferrite rings (AMAZON) as you described and viola! No more phantom button presses! No more crazy sounds coming from the unit when the pumps kick on, and most importantly, no more interrupted or cancelled emergency phone calls from the unit! People called me crazy for trying. Sensaphone themselves admitted they had no solution for this issue. This video saved a LOT of heartache for everyone involved. I thought the ferrite rings looked like voodoo, but I took them off the system to see whether they were actually helping and the problems persisted! I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Thank you. Thank YOU, THANK YOU! To be fair, our control panel has a built in Ethernet for alarms that connects to an online app, so this never should've been an issue, but they don't want to run internet to this outdoor system, so this fix was our only option until they change their minds.
I just found your channel and find it very educational and you Sir do a very good job at explaining things. I watched your previous one on hooking up your vfd and setting it up. I am currently looking for as much information on these as I can find. I have a 3 phase motor and a delta vfd but unfortunately for me someone kept the wiring information on it and I can't seem to locate any on my particular model. It is a Delta CC 2050.
Thank you very much. I am making a CNC, and opening VFD will cause the connection between Arduino and PC to be disconnected. I'll try to add a filter based on your video.
Thanks so much for putting this together. Really informative and the proper amount of depth for me. Easy to get into the weeds on this topic but you didn't. I did have a question. If you had to purchase an Amazon VFD today for your application, what one would you select and why. VFD costs keep coming down and new products are on the market today.
James, Thanks so much for this series of videos. Its been invaluable as I installed a 240v 3 phase motor to my old Bridgeport mill. I have one question regarding the EMI filter though. I purchased the same filter as you used in your video, but I'm running 240v one phase power from the wall to the VFD. Notwithstanding that its labeled at 250v, it only has 1 line and 1 neutral post. For a 240v input, would you put both "hot" lines on the single line post? Thanks so much again for all your hard work. You've quickly become my "go to" source of information!
5 my relay 24 dc some how dancing while inverter on forward and backwards. Destroying my plc logic sequences, first time experiencing it although distance of inverter about half meter. Thanks for sharing. Somehow i solve the problem by moving inverter 1 meter away but still this noise surprising me alot.
Good video handy tips I ve been some what slow on playing around with vfd s I repair meat processing machines and commercial refrigeration but will keep watching the video s though thks Tony South Africa
Interesting and useful stuff. I had similar interference from LED mains lights blocking my powerline ethernet extenders. A large common mode choke between lighting and power circuits fixed that. BTW your 8 turn wire wraps are very inefficient current sensors as the wires are orthogonal to the cable; they should be parallel for good transformer action. You could have used the ferrite toroids for that too. Not important in your case but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Also I've never heard of a resistor being a "burden" 🤣LOL! It's normally referred to as a load or resistive load
You can wrap the cable around and through the center multiple times vs just going though a ferrite once. Nice vid though. I came here to learn about VFD's lol, as in vacuum fluorescent displays. I wanted to know if they are more noisy electrically than an LCD display.
This problem is why we use shielded cables for these devices. The wires inside are twisted to the proper extent to eliminate common mode noise. That eliminates most, if not all of the noise problems. Sometimes, if the cables are long, a filter is needed as well. If the problem is that there is radiation from the drive itself, then they are put within a grounded steel cabinet for shielding. Filtering the power input to the drive is often a good idea as well. Most people will never do this. Ferrites are used instead of an input filter, and they’re usually sufficient. 10 is a bit excessive. But I would have put a couple on the drive input cable before the filter as well. Also, the question is what ferries to use. Different versions filter different frequencies.
Very Nice Video, It looks like your monitor does not have a builtin filter on its power supply. Most PC and monitors have a EMI filter as part of the input to the PWS. The Best way to use the ferrite is to wound 2 to 3 turns of wire around the ferrite for each of the input lines and output lines.
I'm 3 years late, but I knew you were going to apply ferrites. My 12k solar inverter (actually I have 2 for 24k) are both EMP protected internally and both came with numerous ferrites to install on each PV panel and critical load accessories in the home. UA-cam reviews are numerous explaining how ferrites counter damaging voltage peaks such as that from either a natural or manmade EMP event. Your channel and content draws me in on all the various technologies you apply to your home machine shop. Thank you.
Im sooo happy with this explanation! I’ve built a CNC milling machine. As soon as the spindle starts rotating my cnc controller board freezes. Spent hours on troubleshooting. Thanks to you video i can hook up an oscilloscope and also measure my EMI before and after ferrites and filter. Cheers mate. Wish u the best
This video summed up EMI better in 20 minutes than my teachers could explain in 4 years of engineering school. I found this video while trying to track down an interference issue for one of our customers with our PCB. Thank you for the detail you put into this and I'll definitely be subscribing!
You went to a weird Uni if you learned about EMI for 4 years 😂
westinghouse owes this guy a big thank you- if not a big fat check. This video series made it dead simple to understand how to use this model of VFD, I'm sure a lot of us (myself included) went with the L510 for that reason.
As a ham radio operator and hobby machinist, I appreciate your concerns and efforts to mitigate emi/rfi!
I am absolutely amazed at the breadth and depth of your knowledge and experience in the various disciplines you display !
On top of that the production quality of your videos is superb ! Definitely in the top percentile of machinist / maker vids available.
Would you consider doing a shop tour vid ? The jealousy factor in your shop organization is strong in me since I tend to have things scattered everywhere. Keep up the great work !
I'm extremely limited in my electronics knowledge but your videos I've viewed thus far exposes me to some degree of theory and understanding but of more value to me, the practical application that I can actually duplicate. This is difficult to locate for a very lay person like me. Thank you.
When you said "touch my cameras" I immediately thought of static electricity. I get that only with my cameras. I touch my camera, then a nice little shock. Now I am always so aware of this that I pause every time. Haha. Great video!
When a mechanical dude explain in a few minutes what i didn't get from electronic dudes videos in the last 2 days.. thanks dude ❤️
Thank you. I've been trying to figure out how to run my 3 phase lathe through the control panel with vfd. I didn't realize you just bypass the control box w/contactors and go straight to the motor. Thank you for all the added configuration explanation.
I just binged watched several of your videos and can not believe the how good the information is, how well it is presented and how thorough each video is. I'm subbed to A LOT of machinists, woodworkers, welders and other makers and your channel is in the top 5% in my opinion. I'm looking forward to going through every video now and catching up.
I'm on the midst of a restoration of a Clausing 5914 lathe. I've done a total teardown of it and I am considering replacing the hydraulic reeves drive, even though I completely rebuilt it, with a poly-v and VFD setup. The only thing that keeps me from committing to the idea is the high pitched sound coming from the motor/vfd that I've heard on just about every setup I've seen in person or online. My understanding is that it's related to the carrier frequency and is unavoidable. I'd love to modernize my 5914 but I'm not sure I could stomach listening to that hitch pitched sound while working. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!
Thank you! In my experience, changing the carrier frequency only changes the pitch of the whine. If you have hearing loss in the higher frequencies, you might be able to set the carrier frequency high enough that you can't hear it, but that (un)fortunately doesn't work for me. On my setup, the whine almost completely disappeared when I set the VFD carrier mode to 3-phase PWM (parameter 11-02). I made the parameter changes step by step in this video, so you can listen and hear the results of the different parameters: ua-cam.com/video/RQKPtf7stiw/v-deo.html
@@Clough42 Thank you!! I can't count the number of videos I've watched on VFDs. Yours in the only one that address the 3-phase PWM mode to eliminate that noise. Every video I've seen has the whine. Fantastic stuff! I just ordered the L510 and will be following your build exactly. Thank you!
Mate, that is exactly the kind of video of been trying to find! In depth but to the point, I've learn't more about frequencies and EMI from this simple video than I have from a $500 Schneider provided variable speed drive course. Thank you very much for this video, it has taught me alot and I appreciate your time and effort in producing this video! From New Zealand 👍
your videos outlining your though process and Engineering curiosity are FANTASTIC! Thank you!
highly underrated video. this should pop up for everyone who is searching for vfd installation, especially when doing cnc conversions of mills and lathe :) thank you for this - and many other vids
Great video. It’s actually a re-run for me though. I watched it last year after your ELS project. Motor problems with my import bench top lathe brought me back. I knew when I first watched this series that I’d be using your method to improve my lathes capabilities. The vfd arrived today, my filter and ferrites will be here tomorrow, and my motor should be here Friday. If not for your contributions to the hobby machining community I’d be replacing a crappy brushless dc motor and control board every year or so. I really appreciate everything you do James and I’m certain so does everyone else. Keep up the good works👍
It is fascinating to me which of your videos get more likes - the VFD video got over a hundred thousand views and this important video only got three thousand .....great video in my opinion !
Oh this is excellent info. I always thought that VFD switching noise would be differential mode on the power wires. Huh. Well I have to go move a LOT of ferrites in my shop. Thank you.
Thanks! Awesome video in relation to EMI!
Excellent video. Though your EMI/RFI issue is affecting camera gear, that is an even bigger problem for radio gear (ham radio specifically). The hard part - as you alluded to in the beginning of the video - viewers of the video would be completely unaware of the issue had you not pointed it out. Same is true for likely everyone else in your neighborhood - unless they experience problems (such as the TV in the family room, or your neighbors tv, flickering when you are trying to run the lathe). Knowing it is coming from your lathe is impossible to know unless it is tracked down. So finding the problem up front - and taking the steps to mitigate it as you are progressing with the upgrade - is most excellent work - even if the reason you did it was for your own benefit at the time (keeping your own camera and production gear working correctly). The issue could be a lot more wide-spread to others, yet they may never know the source or how to resolve the issues.
I have a problem with a Renogy pure sinewave inverter inducing noise on a hydrographic survey sonar system. I'll try these filtering approaches. I really appreciate your intelligent and unpretentious approach to explaining what is going on here.
Your video is absolutely brilliant! I am an Electrical Contractor who is doing to work for a big company which uses VFDs,on there production lines. They are having a lot of problems with EMI which is raising "Hell" with the production process due to VFD dropping out and shutting down. They thought the problem was insulation break down on the THHN wiring feeding the motors from the VFDs, but I told them it most probably is EMI .
Your very easy and simple in depth video, is easy to following and understand. It shows what's really going on and the solution to theses problems. I suggested to use ferrites on the output of the VFD and a line filter on the input power feeding the VFDs.
Your video is exactly correct, as to how and why noise affects digital equipment so adversely. Thank you Michael
Great video. I've got ferries knocking around, I'll have to get a couple of those filter modules to have a play.
Enjoy the demo's you put together using basic equipment and your explanation for what's going on and why/how the kit is set up is great.
I purchased a 90 year old, 2 ton Lodge and Shipley 16 inch motor lathe that is in great shape but it's cumbersome to change speeds and direction and it has a top speed of 400 RPM. So I've changed the motor to a 5 HP - 3 phase with a VFD in hopes this will make the machine more usable. I just finished installing the motor and am about to wire up the controller and your video was just what I needed. Great job! Thanks.
How did that lodge and Shipley turn out? I’m we had a couple in the tool room.
I've watched 5 of Your videos today. And now I have to go back and start at the beginning. Because there's so much to learn. Things I even didn't know I didn't know! Awesome stuff! 👍
MY gosh you did such a nice clear presentation, I am ordering the parts I need tonight. Thank-You!!
Thank you @Clough42. This is the best of EMI explanation, and you solved my problem too. My PC Monitor is loosing signal when my water pump on and off. I found your EMI video is very simple yet very clear and I can see the signal of the noise. Amazing job, luv it!
Fantastic job! You are very good at getting the information out without out a lot of extra noise. No pun intended!
Thank you. For the record, the pun is appreciated anyway.
Thank you so much for this video, we have a Shapoko Pro XXL cnc that kept disconnecting when ever the spindle was turned on. I found the same emi filter on amazon, bought 14 ferrite cores, and moved everything over into a new enclosure and so far zero Disconnects. Thank you so much. My previous emi filters from cnc4u were useless and the screened cable did nothing until adding all the ferries 👌 your amazing.
Excellent video. Advanced and understandable at the same time. Practical knowledge and application that I now possess. My thanks sir.
I'm not going to go into detail as a industrial Electrician, some of what you say is correct and you are on the right track. Some drives (VFD's) are sold with internal and or external filters (harmonic issues and interference down stream filtering). But in the industry it is common practice and generally a standard requirement to use the above mentioned filtering with shielded cabling from the motor to the drive or a shielded cabinet, with the shield (drain) earthed at one end (VFD or cabnet). also the most important wire is the Earth, don't forget...
By earth, are you saying the equipment grounding conductor or are you talking about an isolated ground? Because James is using an EGC and isolated grounds are only really used in data centers and hospitals. Small VFD's (
I am planning on installing a VFD on a lathe. This video series was extremely helpful, it answered all my concerns and provided information on aspects that I had not thought about. Awesome, thanks for the video.
You should be a teacher! Everything you said made a lot of sense. I am a novice ham radio operator and I can use your informations in a lot of ways. Thank you and good luck!
I would never have expected your penmanship to be worse than mine! - ........ it's a compliment
Thanks for this info. I've been working with my VFD for my cnc spindle for a while, dealing with various noise in the system, and grounding issues for the controller. still not done, have made progress, but this info sheds light on what i've been dealing with that i couldn't see, and how to fix it further. btw, i've gotten positive results grounding both ends of the shielding around the cable that runs from the vfd to the spindle. some sources had me leave the spindle side of the cable shield unattached, and that was just plain wrong. i suspect those ferrite cores will further catch high frequency oscillations in that shield, so i'll get those, and also that power filter sounds like a good idea.
Watched Part 1 through 3. Very well explained and straight to the point.
I found your channel a few days ago while looking for answers to setting up my L510 VFD. This particular episode was very informative. At this point, am not sure whether I'll need to act on this advice, as we're not quite ready to take the maiden voyage. This should happen in a couple days. Thanks so much for all your great advice!
Excellent video. Very hard to find someone who will show this concept with an oscilloscope. Thanks
You get me 40years back to college labs about noise filtering. After all these years problems remaining the same ...but we have mobile phones.
Best vid on YT for solving issues like this in shop & home. Thanks very much!!!!
The ham radio operators of the world thank you LOL. About to wire one of these on to a drill press. Had no idea what it would have done to my other hobby.
Great video. Thank you for taking the time and effort to share it with everyone. Most appreciated.
For VFD, shielded cables must be used every time. Also, twisting the cables on unshielded portions may help most of the time.
Shielded cable for power?
EMI troubleshooting: you might see some benefits from mechanically mounting the drive, motor and EMI filter all on a common metal ground plane (no long green wire) and *solidly* grounding them locally.
Like how you used the cores in common and differential mode, but this problem is almost certainly majority common-mode.
A (much) shorter drive to motor cable will help by making the current loop physically smaller.
This problem is created by the IGBT's (inside the inverter) switching on/off and snapping the current off. I'd be curious to see what, if any, steps they took in the layout to mitigate the problem.
Great video and solid "change made it better/change made it worse" shooting. Kudos.
Hey James, I really enjoy your content. Thanks for filling knowledge gaps for hobbyists who know enough to get started, but not enough to get out of the valley between "I bought a machine" and "my machine is useful". There are lots of content creators in this space, but good explanations targeted at hobby machines are extremely rare. BTW, I think your mic was causing 2nd and 3rd order harmonics on the left side of the trace on your scope. Thanks again for all the great info.
Hmm... Possible.
Excellent video. We have been fighting interference issues with our touch screens from the VFDs so I will try this to see if it helps.
You helped me, after installing a new variable speed pond pump, it affected my AM radio so much so I couldn’t listen to it. I will try the device you used, fingers crossed.
buongiorno, grazie mille per la condivisione é da settimane che ho questo problema e non sapevo piu cosa fare. MILLE GRAZIE
I like your demonstration, clear !
Better than my university teachers
Thank you for explaining about VFD ,with practical oscilloscope
This is my favorite video on UA-cam - thank you for making this
totally awesome, thanks so much. This will help resolve an issue we are having in the lab. I pray for God to reward you for helping people. May you live long, be wealthy and be give peace of mind and a guided heart.
Oh man, best explanation I've ever heard of how a common mode choke, class x and y capacitors work together. And, now I understand better why putting ferrites on the lines for some car-neons I used for decoration in my youth actually did reduce data issues. (I'm pretty sure it only affected my audio because I used a digital, but copper, signal line between my computer and speakers, and that line by necessity laid parallel to the neon lines....)
Yes it is useful thank you. I am 62 yrs learning VFD to air conditioners
Great video. Noise from VFD's is the bane of my existence.
Thanks for the advice, I haven't ran into this noise problem and don't know if I will, I watched this video when I was doing my build and implemented this before it ever became a problem.
Great videos on VFD application! Informative and very well produced. The high quality of the video and audio helps greatly in making the programs watchable.
Another thing that helps is using shielded VFD cable grounded at both ends. It gives a low impedance path for the common mode current to travel so it doesn’t travel through the building as much.
I had this issue with my VFD and moved the cables around very carefully to make sure nothing was close to the VFD cable lol. Plus some taped up grounded tinfoil I think. I like your idea better! I have the same ol' Rigol DS1052 scope too haha
Nice ey, was having problems with emi, you really helped
You sir, have earned my subscription. Thank you!
Another practical emi issue I've seen: A pressbrake where I work has the *signal wires from the plc running to the control panel through the same conduit as the power.* While troubleshooting a blown plc, one of many discoveries was the *110v power was emitting 9.6vac to 2 of the 16vdc signal wires.*
I did test that it wasn't false firing. It wasn't, but it was only a few volts short.
Without extensive modification (has to pass through a swivel) or rewiring it all, I was able to move the signal wires as far away inside the conduit as i could and got that to drop to about 6vac.
Good stuff champ. Would be nice to see the line filter on the motor side and adding various capacitor values to see affect on vFD and noise.
Without any doubt, those series of motor and VFD are really great and very simple but indeed full of useful information
Good luck James
Wow, very interesting! Would have loved to have seen how a smaller number of ferrite cores worked in comparison to the pack of 10.
I can tell you this... I have two rings on each motor cable going to a 460V 15HP sewage pump from a VFD that was causing havoc on another system and they did WONDERS.
Great video, and I'm enjoying it as I'm also dealing with similar issues. I'm going to nitpick just a little at 10 minutes. You don't /want/ to pass 60Hz common mode signals, noise or otherwise. You only want to pass 60Hz differentially. And that filter /will/ filter low frequency CM signals as well.
I only say this because I've been working on sorting CM noise issues on my audio equipment if I happen to plug my microphone preamp into a USB charger. The dominant CM signal is 60Hz fundamental frequency. A CM choke won't help you here(unless it's impractically massive and expensive), that's why there's the CY configuration in the middle. They're dumping the low frequency stuff to ground.
Right. You want to increase the common-mode impedance as much as possible. You want to pass the differential only, and even that can be filtered down to a pure sine wave at the operating AC frequency of the motor, though a common mode choke won't do the latter.
Great video series! Very clear explanations. Well done!
Thank you!
Youre a good teacher, great video much appreciated.
Great demo. Answered many questions
Thanks for showing how to solve my EMI problem.
Nice video! I see you're using completely unshielded cable. I think you'd find good results with a low cost braided OAF type cable.
Yes, agree. I had about 5 VFDs radiating in the workshop and the only way I was able to completely resolve my noise and earth leakage issues (causing noise in limit switches) was to use shielded or braided cable
shielded cables do not protect against the device causing interference in the supply network. They protect the signal in the line and the neighboring lines. It may help with your problem with the endstopswitches but it doesn’t solve the problem with devices wich are connected to the same power source
@@andreasbrunnhofer Agreed, it's a good idea to have an incoming filter on low voltage single phase AC. For three phase inputs, filtering isn't usually necessary as it's typically built-in (unless it's a VERY cheap drive). Foil and braided shielded cable is a necessity on the motor end. On a small drive like this, you would rarely need any line reactor or filtering on the output.
First, THANK YOU! I sell sewage pump systems for a living and I sold one to a city last year for a large outdoor application with two VFDs running two 460V, 15 HP submersible sewage pumps. They bought the whole system, but wanted to use their own Sensaphone unit to make a phone call to their office in case of a high water alarm in their pit. This was very important to them, but we found that the sensaphone autodialer was receiving all sorts of signals from it's power line causing "phantom" button presses on the unit, stopping the phone calls from being made, and therefore keeping the city from being made aware and taking action when homes might be in danger of having sewage backed up into their homes. It would be a very unlikely scenario, but it happened to them years ago and that's why they wanted to upgrade the pump and control units. I had almost given up on my attempts to fix the issues because honestly, how do you fix what you can't see? I had tried everything I could think of that I could control, but then I came across your video. I applied a 12V EMI noise filter (AMAZON) to the sensaphone circuit and ferrite rings (AMAZON) as you described and viola! No more phantom button presses! No more crazy sounds coming from the unit when the pumps kick on, and most importantly, no more interrupted or cancelled emergency phone calls from the unit!
People called me crazy for trying. Sensaphone themselves admitted they had no solution for this issue. This video saved a LOT of heartache for everyone involved. I thought the ferrite rings looked like voodoo, but I took them off the system to see whether they were actually helping and the problems persisted! I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Thank you. Thank YOU, THANK YOU!
To be fair, our control panel has a built in Ethernet for alarms that connects to an online app, so this never should've been an issue, but they don't want to run internet to this outdoor system, so this fix was our only option until they change their minds.
EXCELLENT VIDEO! Installed my first VFD. Hopefully this takes the issue away!
Thank you for sharing, you have taking me back to my old days of school, thank you have a nice day.
I just found your channel and find it very educational and you Sir do a very good job at explaining things. I watched your previous one on hooking up your vfd and setting it up. I am currently looking for as much information on these as I can find. I have a 3 phase motor and a delta vfd but unfortunately for me someone kept the wiring information on it and I can't seem to locate any on my particular model. It is a Delta CC 2050.
You really laid things out clearly. This is valuable info for several noise related projects I am working on. Thank you!
Excellent video, and a great explanation of what's going on we can't see.
Thank you very much. I am making a CNC, and opening VFD will cause the connection between Arduino and PC to be disconnected. I'll try to add a filter based on your video.
Thanks so much for putting this together. Really informative and the proper amount of depth for me. Easy to get into the weeds on this topic but you didn't.
I did have a question. If you had to purchase an Amazon VFD today for your application, what one would you select and why. VFD costs keep coming down and new products are on the market today.
Excellent content and very relevant. I am busy with a lathe conversion at the moment, and I haven't paid any attention to this. Thank you very much!
thank you very much sir, I actually learn something important about VFD and more
James, Thanks so much for this series of videos. Its been invaluable as I installed a 240v 3 phase motor to my old Bridgeport mill. I have one question regarding the EMI filter though. I purchased the same filter as you used in your video, but I'm running 240v one phase power from the wall to the VFD. Notwithstanding that its labeled at 250v, it only has 1 line and 1 neutral post. For a 240v input, would you put both "hot" lines on the single line post? Thanks so much again for all your hard work. You've quickly become my "go to" source of information!
5 my relay 24 dc some how dancing while inverter on forward and backwards. Destroying my plc logic sequences, first time experiencing it although distance of inverter about half meter. Thanks for sharing. Somehow i solve the problem by moving inverter 1 meter away but still this noise surprising me alot.
Very useful exercise, and grateful for this posting. Thx.
Awesome video. What effect would having AC line choke have with regards to the noise?
Just got an EMI filter out of a broken treadmill. Will be a good fit in my CNC! Thanks!
You sir are an absolute legend thanks
That was absolutely brilliant. Thanks for all the effort you went to in the video!
Awesome demonstration.
very interesting and you are so easy to listen to. Ill be setting up my milling machine this weekend. Thanks a lot.
Thanks. Enjoy your machine!
Good video handy tips I ve been some what slow on playing around with vfd s I repair meat processing machines and commercial refrigeration but will keep watching the video s though thks Tony South Africa
You're welcome. I learned a lot doing the project and thought I'd share.
Ordered parts for tomorrow. Thank you!
Also subscribed. 👍
Interesting and useful stuff. I had similar interference from LED mains lights blocking my powerline ethernet extenders. A large common mode choke between lighting and power circuits fixed that.
BTW your 8 turn wire wraps are very inefficient current sensors as the wires are orthogonal to the cable; they should be parallel for good transformer action. You could have used the ferrite toroids for that too. Not important in your case but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Also I've never heard of a resistor being a "burden" 🤣LOL! It's normally referred to as a load or resistive load
In that case, you can google "burden resistor" and learn something new today.
You can wrap the cable around and through the center multiple times vs just going though a ferrite once. Nice vid though. I came here to learn about VFD's lol, as in vacuum fluorescent displays. I wanted to know if they are more noisy electrically than an LCD display.
It was very good work. Congratulations. I want to ask you, what kind of EMI filter should I use for 500W spindle motor (volts and amps)
This problem is why we use shielded cables for these devices. The wires inside are twisted to the proper extent to eliminate common mode noise. That eliminates most, if not all of the noise problems. Sometimes, if the cables are long, a filter is needed as well. If the problem is that there is radiation from the drive itself, then they are put within a grounded steel cabinet for shielding.
Filtering the power input to the drive is often a good idea as well. Most people will never do this. Ferrites are used instead of an input filter, and they’re usually sufficient. 10 is a bit excessive. But I would have put a couple on the drive input cable before the filter as well. Also, the question is what ferries to use. Different versions filter different frequencies.
Very Nice Video, It looks like your monitor does not have a builtin filter on its power supply. Most PC and monitors have a EMI filter as part of the input to the PWS. The Best way to use the ferrite is to wound 2 to 3 turns of wire around the ferrite for each of the input lines and output lines.
Really well explained and very useful information, explained very well with great videography.
Thanks alot for this explanation its so helpful
good tests,,, any more ideas,,,
have got much from you videos.........others platform were confusing but yours is sperb.... thanks