Wow, I mean, I know that you are very serious and that is why I follow you since your first raider gameplay videos, but somehow freeze, you keep getting better at this, information on point, you even gather data from other players, you are really dedicated with this. Thanks a lot to be one of the best youtubers out there on for honor content.
@Bill Cosby ate too much vitamins dude, gone ultra instinct for 10 minutes straight. and im using a FAKIN SHinobi! fighting 2 orochis with fkn faints and shits.
@Bill Cosby + i cant dodge shield bash my ping or his maybe after the light its always guaranteed this game is broken as fuck unless u have fastest internet cause against bot i can react honestly
Armusha shuts down practically all assassins if they are cought in the spam the only escape is a deflect or hope your health depletes slower then his stamina
Cerberus The Demon his lights can only chain side to top or top to side, meaning they're super easy to predict. His soft feints are completely reactable from the side, and only fast from the top. There's a reason he's listed as the second worst hero in the game, stop being a victim and learn how to play
Console players are generally better than pc players because we are bred to think and react at a much faster pace. On pc things are so much easier, condole on the other hand? You need to be a god to prevail.
Now throw in 30fps and orochi lights all 3 on assassins are pretty much gurrented aramusha can succesfully light spam combo you to death valk can light spam and shaman litterally teleports Also pk zone doesnt even look like an attack you just get indicator and a feint ghost
@@Azuresh_ you do realize game developers hire people to test their games right? I'm saying he knows how to dissect this game's mechanics very well and the knowledge he could give them could (imo) take this game to a better state than what it is now. They need minds like his to improve the games mechanics.
The play test are on PC which is the sad part. The game isn't the same between the two platforms everyone and I mean everyone says pc is the easier version of the game
This video right here is the reason I have been explaining time and time again to people that there is a difference between reactable, unreactable, and INCONSISTENTLY REACTABLE. I preach this difference because it's important to understand that just because you reacted to something once, doesn't mean it's completely reactable, but it doesn't mean it's completely unreactable just because you can't react to it the majority of the time. In my mind, an unreactable attack is one that is absolutely impossible to reactively defend against (though, when fighting someone that can hit a 200 ms reaction every now and then, nothing is truly unreactable at that point). If it is possible to get your reaction time fast enough to occasionally react to it, it's not unreactable. It's inconsistently reactable, and within that, there is a whole range of what can qualify as inconsistently reactable, with some attacks leaning towards one side or the other. For some examples: Kensei's Pommel Strike: Unreactable Delayed 400 ms Lights: Inconsistently reactable, leaning to unreactable. Plain 400 ms Lights: Inconsistently reactable, leaning to reactable. 600 ms Lights: Reactable. As a result, there are actually very few truly unreactable attacks in the game, as it should be. Good, competitive game design should favor inconsistently reactable attacks, that lean towards unreactable, such as delayed 400 ms lights. These attacks would serve as reliable openers in fights, and would give players a skill ceiling to train for, to try and improve their reaction consistency as much as they can. However, it will never be possible to train your reactions to be fast enough to be considered actually consistent. Anyways, that's enough ranting for me. Good video.
Another thing to bear in mind is the attention span, even if you are capable of on point reactions its difficult to mantain that level of focus during long periods of time, so to ease that task we rely on frequent patterns players with this or that hero tend to do, then we watch the particular pattern the opponent we are fighting in that moment and then we decide what moves we focus on. So something is reactable to you as long as you are prepared for it. If in a duel the opponent is an assassin that only do light combos or a pk spamming the zone its easy for anyone to parry those consistently, problem is when you mix it with heavies, feints, bashes, etc. The more mix-up potential a hero has, the more work for your brain to focus on when you fight against it. its not the attack per se but the possible outcomes what makes you doubt before react. Add to it the, lets say, stress for being mistaken about choosing the wrong decision and that make it worse. Also, when a new hero, like now the wu-lin faction, arrive, even moves that you would consider consistently reactable also make you doubt because you are not used to their animations. There is a reason for why this focus thing happens, its exhausting brain-wise, and could be bad if you are constantly in that state.
And let's not forget if you react to a character with a soft feint well... Tough shit loser, you should have just taken the hit. I started in beta, but since all the soft feints have been added I just can't figure out how to effectively do amything
@@emiraydn5965 Its the reason I dont play on PC, the gameplay devolves into a slog where several charecters are useless and the gameplay itself slows down to a boring pace
@@a7xarmageddon750 Glad is probably the only good one. A LOT of the time my starter lights just get blocked, heavies are a different story however when it comes to people that like feinting into GB ;) But other than that, it hurts my fucking brain playing Gladiator, having to calculate so many feints...That reflex guard tho. *Zone is a little OP, but I'm a nice guy and like putting myself at a disadvantage. So I only use it to finish people. I usually have to feint into the zone because people actually DODGE it if you do just the zone alone..
For Honor has a fundamental problem with itself. Want things reactable, thus appearing 'fair' and have skill/reaction be the only factor? We will have another turtle meta with staring contest against even decent players. Want unreactable attacks? It gets infuriating for the player to have to guess instead of using skill to peoperly counter the opponent's attacks. I think the solution is one that we are going towards; make every character have these tools, or at least tools that deal with that stuff. Will it add to the 'no skill all guessing' thing? Yes. However, I VASTLY prefer that over things turning into a staring match where both opponents will only throw out safe moves or nothing landing.
@@lisupei6042 That's an interesting thought, however, how would you make blocking harder? With parrying, you can reduce the window of timing and make it harder that way I guess, but with blocking, the only thing I can think of is making the guard transition time slower. However, that would make the combat feel slow and clunky as Hell, and you could complain that you are reacting to what's happening, but your character is just too slow. I had this issue as a Raider main since day 1 before they made guard transition timing more even across the board.
Something Something Blocking could drain stamina and the amount may be increased the more you blocked, that leaves both the attacker and defender exhausted at the end of the combo and neither could punish the other, parrying may have the flickering indicator removed , that way peoples will actually have to read the animations
Something Something I mean the attack indicator no longer flicker when you are in the parry window timing, you will have to actually look at the animation to decide your next move, of course all the unreactable bullshits will need to go if these changes happen.
Yeah. Then a ledgebringer will do a shove spam. Followed by a Centurion throwing you on the ground. Finally a Shugoki does demons embrace before you get up.
@@arturopacheco89 Centurion can't throw you down if you have no stamina, and if you're taking hits when he stuns you with a fully charged heavy. Not op, it's not Shaman's bite where it's instant fucking D E A T H. How is lawbringers normal shove an issue? Are the mindsets and reaction times of 4v4 players that much different from 1v1 players? I played duels for the longest time and switches to 4v4s because it's *EASIER* The shove on it's own actually fucking hits because people can't react for shit, they dodge Everytime you shove as well Don't let LAWBRINGER of all characters get in your head...by some sorcery.. That's your fault if you get in a three v one against Centurion, Lawbringer and Shugoki.
@@adorablecenturion8436 Centurion can whiff and charge an uppercut to knock you down actually B. In fact it's the go-to gank strat when there's more than one cent in a gank.
I can see where you're coming from, but I've been thinking about picking him up just because I think he's cool overall. Otherwise, I honestly feel the same. Watching my brother and friend play For Honor at a low level and losing to Orochi's Light spam is awful. It's disheartening. Having to explain to them shit like this? They've uninstalled the game. And it being one of my favorite games, I want to support it. But how do you defend this? What could I possibly tell them? It's just sad.
Lord Wanda Perhaps you can tell them to try and read when they’ll throw and attack so that maybe they can squeeze an attack of their own in before they get hit. Or, if they get hit, try and block a random direction really quickly but if they’re able to see the attack coming in in time, then of course block it. But that’s just what I do.. Best of luck to you
@@Proxyudai I personally don't have issues with Orochi's new kit. But to unseasoned newbies it's hell. Every single match the same thing. An Orochi Light spamming as much as possible and they don't have any hope. Ofc I try to give sound advice, but we all play on PS4 and to them it's nearly impossible no matter what I tell them
And then you heard some people say "It's is easy to parry orochi lights, it's useless attacks, I parry every time, not guessing ,just reacting , I'm a god." Lmao
Veronique Benoit I understand you. I suggest training with Orochi Bots, enabling his light attack and disabling the interval between his attacks. Then you can train it, so your reflexes get better, you learn how his animations work and your muscle memory with blocking (and then parrying) gets better. It helps a lot. But at the end, it’s a unbalanced an stupid game, sometimes fun but quitting and doing other things probably would be a better suggestion :)
Comical Core Input lag can be up to 100 ms depending on your console setup, so hypothetically a guy with bad internet and a huge television wouldn’t be able react to the attacks shown at all. Let’s say that he has a 100 ms delay between when he presses the button and when his character shifts guard. There’s a 100 me delay between when you shift guard and when the character shifts guard. Now he has to react in 167 ms. When reacting to one of these attacks, even with just a 100 ms delay, first he has to see the attack, then he has to press the button, which by that time the attack has already happened, giving the Orochi time to throw out another light attack. There’s already a small delay between when your brain sees the attack, registers it and tells your thumb to press a button or move the stick, and depending on where you set controller dead zones that could be even longer. That’s why For Honor, like _all fighting games_ relies on prediction at some level. So yes, the game is balanced, it’s just not balanced the way you like it. Sure, a lightspamming orochi is usually a 33/33/33, but usually there’s a pattern and they don’t bother to look at your guard, so you can keep it in one position and you’ll eventually block their attack most of the time, giving you a chance to recover, and if that doesn’t work then watch for a pattern. The game is fair and balanced, you just need to think a little bit. Also Ost Wind is completely correct, train against bots.
I've seen ravelord ingame. His reaction times are scary, but he seems dependant on indicators for reaction. I've seen him go for light parries and eat raw heavies quite a few times, lol.
@@Ithmari rework made him viable lol. Orochi was garbage pre rework, the only assassin with raider speed light attacks besides top stance, which was predictable. You could literally keep your guard top stance and orochi couldn't do anything.
@@bigrob10p I'm an Orochi main don't explain me my main man I'm playing since Alpha. Orochi used to take skill that's all I'm saying. He needed the rework.
@@Ithmari his back dodge to heavy counter was godlike. I miss it lol. I dont like the rework, feels like im using a super good character compared to back then when orochi was just "okay" or low tier
Finally someone who talks about it, I honestly don't like the direction for honor is taking...Its getting too fast imo. probably some people will say that i'm just bad , but i play since the beta and went to master already. Your video is really nice. thank you for sharing it with the community.
Whenever someone with an unstable 50 ping joins the game... There is even less consistency and more bullshittery. This gets worse up to 140 ping and over 140 "I" will have an 'advantage' again. And I'm a 11 ping player...
WOW, just WOW. All I can say to you and this vid. I am old to this vid, however I am glad that I watched this. I am an old fella, so my reaction is not as good as the young ones. This vid gave me the confidence in what I am doing. Thanks again.
On some days I parry Orochi on what seems to be reaction, but it's really half read. On others I get consistently hit by Nobu lights. Gotta mind your own condition as well when choosing how to approach a fight.
SgtFlamingo 32* they get two strikes for the price one if they land a top light. then the third hit generally lands on people trying too hard to block the 2nd hit, which is guaranteed, so Orochi gets anywhere from 32-48 damage off of a top light most of the time. if you can read them, you're fine.
So I'm looking at UA-cam while doing some homework just because I'm taking a little break and usually I don't watch videos while doing homework (I just plan ahead what I'm gonna watch when I'm done) and this video just caused me to stop everything and watch it because I feel that Freeze's videos are probably the more important ones that show up in my feed.
About that 400ms pommel strike: It's has one disadvantage for the Kensei: you cannot delay the follow up attack at all, if you input it late, the enemy can block or parry. This leads to that the Kensei cannot input the light on reaction to a successful pommel strike, he must input, while in the animation of the pommel strike, so the Kensei basically must guess if the opponent gonna dodge it or not.
Which is nice, since a move so hard (for some people at least) to dodge should have a substantial punish if the Kensei wasn’t able to tell if the opponent was capable of dodging it or not
Thank you very very much for this! absolutely great video with so much knowledge directed precisely and clearly. A huge thanks to Barak and Ravelord, boy are they quick that's for sure, would not want to go against them with my slow ass.
Hey Freeze, what are the chances of high packet loss and some lag spikes causing you to get hit in certain cases. I consider myself a good player with fast reactions but one of the frustrations i have when playing online is moment's where I've predicted a move, gave in the input at the proper time yet still got hit. In all of those scenarios I saw the high packet loss icon. Is it possible that there can be input loss in for honor? Edit: I wanted to say that this hasn't once happened to me in offline where I can indeed react to 400ms attacks without any issue yet when I predict in online the above happens.
Probably because online the actual time you need to react to the move isn't the same as offline because of lag compensation. You may be fast enough but the actual input timing may be different than what is actually happening on screen
because people get rewarded for lagging, even if youre opponent is the one lagging its gonna be teleport fighter. Basically switching For Honor to dedicated servers was just increasing the latency since people lagging still fucks people with good connections
I think it is more complicated than that. I have fought people with consistent latency of 100-150ms, and they attacks didn't skipped that much animation consistently, rather sometimes I experienc a sudden 0.5-1s lag. I recall one time I fought a Cent with a latency above 100, he was fine, than one moment, the unblockable heavy indicator appeared, than disappeared, I thought he canceled it, (didn't realized that it is not hard feint able), than 1s latter I was suddenly in the wall. I experienced that people with 200ms or more latency are consistently skipping animation.
This video was really well made and interesting. Here's some of my thoughts, if they integrated distinct sounds for every attack we would be able to react to them off of memory because our hearing reaction is much quicker, it would also open up audio feints. And on PC it's much easier to react to this sort of thing because of the much higher FPS potential. Visually everything's more fluid and there's a much bigger visual que to the attacks.
This is a great video. I was only talking about it the other day, and was testing myself against a bot orochi. Came to conclusion that dash heavy is unreactable! Great work dude, subbed. Ive actually used a website to test my reaction time. I have a slow 230-270 reaction. While my friend had something like 210. Some other youtuber i saw using that website had reactin as low as 180ms (A professional FPS gamer) Thats pretty much what human is capable of (144hz monitor with top mouse and low ping would help reduce reaction by 30-60ms i would imagine) So that shows that attacks with 233ms reaction windows like orochi lights are barely reactable and anything faster than that is pure guesswork
You probably already know this, Freeze, but there's a small window of time in the getting-up animation after being knocked down where you're grabbable by demon's embrace but can't dodge, (which by the way means that if you've got 2 shugokis working together with good timing, you can chain guaranteed back breaks.) I know there are probably a lot of other issues that you'd like to test for new videos, but if you see this and are interested, I'd love to learn about the timing window for guaranteed grabs (because I think the timing is similar for other characters too, like raider's running grab). If you're not interested, now at least you know about the guaranteed hug chain, which has to be one of the cheesiest things in the game.
The good thing fighting an spaming orochi as zerker, I eat a hit but go on but he gets staggered and has to defend, but most orochis (real mains) suck in defending.
This is one reason why I chose to play Berserker he is truly a beast. I literally can go against three people at the same time but damn those spamming of roaches are freaking annoying. But I found those type of people to be in Dominion matches.
Also I will never understand why people are angry because of orochi when zerker is like 3 times stronger then him. Hyper armor on everything, faster zone, ublockable heavies and even more 400 ms lights. Guess people just have to hate every samurai character in the game because of stupid deus vult memes.
Luzik Arbuzik Cry more please. People with skill have no bigger problems against Zerker then against any other hero in this game but people who love to dictate their own playstyle and pace suffer because they are one tricks who can not adapt after losing control. The only thing I can say to you is the only truth there is: GIT GUD and adapt. Everything you said is also bullshit: hyper only after feint, first hit or leap attack (whick is suicide to use, because you can parry it with closed eyes), zone is as fast as most other ingame and forsure not faster then pk or orochi, there are no unblockable heavies! there is an unblockable combo finisher and zerks heavies are slow af and his combo fnisher is >90% reactable. And he has no "even more 400ms lights" he has only 400ms combo lights, that means there has to be a heavy or feint before the attack so the get orochis speed zerker needs to use 1/3 of stamina for an light while orochi uses 1/10 for the same attack. Get your facts together before posting bullshit please. and by the way hate on every samurai? is your weeb honor under attack? noone has a single problem with samurais the only problem is starting the game with a real char and getting spammed and then BM'ed! Remeber one thing: pressing rapidadly M1 is NOT skill.
actually there is a hint of skill behind R1 spamming. Is it safe to continue? Which side do I go to? Would a heavy throw off the opponents timing? Do I soft feint the second heavy into a light, or hard feint into a zone for a potential 50/50 mixup, or go defensive and hope for a BB? Would heavy spam just be safer? -Nearly everyone has a problem with Shubroki as well, he's too damn weak-
Great video, I'd been wondering about Orochi's storm rush because I was often trying to react to the attack and was always getting hit but I soon accepted it wasn't going to happen and now I just valiant breakthrough as Warden whenever I see an Orochi dash backwards in the stance.
I like the state of the game.. the thing about all these fast attackers is that their gsmeplay style is very one dimensional and readable, even if it's not always reactable.. for example.. me on my warden against a pk, she does a zone into top bleed very consistently so I end up learning to parry that and get a free top heavy... these fast attackers have low hp so one bit hit is devastating. Against most fast attackers I use spacing and look for opportunities to move in, usually they get frustrated and start spamming if very obvious ways. Like berserkers feint from side to side and is usually predictable. If you're just standing still looking for parries and thinking you can block every attack, you gunna die. The meta is good like this because it counters a purely defensive meta which wad much worse.
They also got the guard break and if u look at all the other characters , basically they all boil down to , use character ability , light or heavy , guard break and parry. To an orochi it's just , move ,light , guardbreak repeat
About zones into bleed...What about Shaman? Who is PK, but better? Her zone is infuriating..She can already feint heavies into bleed attacks from any direction. The zone is unnecessary.
In terms of animation frames. While having a lower refresh rate for example 60hz you only get to see half of the animation. If it's for a 144hz refresh rate (or higher) you see more of the attack frames. I would pretty much compare 60hz to a console player's point of view but only a bit better.
Many skill based games are reaction based games. Reaction is part of what makes you skillful. Not sure what you are getting at here. What you said sounded a bit contradictory.
oof. And this doesn't take into account any hardware limitations. If your graphics card craps out you'll have frame drops, your ping will give you latency, and then there's input lag that'll reduce the time you have to react. Just getting into for honor during quarantine; nice video!
I wish this game was more about mind games, outsmarting your opponent, and less about reaction times. Valk, Orochi, and PK can be booth cancerous and trash. They have very limited mind games, and they test your reaction time, rather than reading skills. If you have the reaction, you gonna destroy them, if don't, they gonna destroy you. I think the latter is more likely, cause as you said, few posses this kind of reaction, as this is really at the peak of what humans are capable of.
Blackwolf Just outsource the next reworks to some competent Japanese studio, better yet just hire them to fix the game from the ground up, they are the only ones who know well how to make a balanced and consistent fighting game, Ubisoft is stupid as hell 😥
I actually don’t have a problem with all of this being “unreactable”, since mind games then play a bigger role, and that would usually mean that game experience with mind games wins matches and not a guy who’s just got insane reactions. Edit: When i say “unreactable” i am refering to what he’s saying in the video and when i say mind games, i mean predict what his next move is gonna be. Only talking for pc.
@@ckjaer5288 like the video said it's a guessing game, how do I know if it's coming from left, right or top? It's literally just a roll of the dice with a 1/3 chance unless your opponent attacks in a pattern, which if you are even close to a decent rep, they wont
+Chase Birch Fighting games are supposed to have mindgames and reads over reactions. The notion that everything needs to be reactable is a really bad mindset this community has. Things being reactable means you just get defensive meta and a horrible experience where the better you get at the game, the less fun it is to watch and play.
I mean u can light spam people on console with orochi or aramusha But please note that u did not won the battle because of a certain skill level. But rather because of legal hacks.
@@georgefranko8373 dead wrong . I play on xbox, and like I said, I can't remember the last time I lost to an aramusha. Keep in mind, I'm in mid master.
yeah in a game like for honor everything needs balance. the larger the pay off, the larger the risk for doing the attack. but they seem to disregard that recently. the new characters are fine, things like the traps with nuxia getting good damage and nice pressure. but the damage is higher with the zone trap because its only one direction, so its easier to deal with. but then theres things like shaman who can jump at you and attack from any guard and its stupid. the closest thing to that is orochi, but orochi needs to jump back to do it, and its slower
Slow orochi down. Every time I see an orochi on console with a ton of reps in orochi it’s just cringy. If you need to play as the easiest character in the game you are bad. On console orochi is so hard to counter. There’s a reason orochi is a tier higher on console than on pc.
Conq and Orochi are mindless characters. Either throw lights or spam shield bash. Whiff the bash? Light. Accidentally full guard? Oh, you have a split second guard break window.
couldnt agree more. If I come up against a roachi while messing around with different characters they usually just light spam to a win unless I get some good reads, so what ive found works is to rematch with aramusha. Because they dont change thier patterns blade blockade sends them into a meltdown. Having a much harder time with conquerors though, cant seem to find a decent counter.
Well there was a time when orochi was actually fun to play I had mained him at launch but got more interested in raider, went back to him after awhile before rework, now I'm just disappointed.
@@jphtm2594 whiff the bash, throw a light, then get immediately parried because that's the most predictable shit ever lol. You slow orochi down, he goes right back in the trash bin with shugoki and lawbringer
@@bigrob10p He's already in the trash bin on PC, very obnoxious on console, I don't know if they reworked Shugoki in the last couple months but he's definitely a beast in Dominion.
Your work is really commendable! Thanks for making me more confident in this game! Otherwise, light spam gives me depression of being an useless player. I will start reading now.
Orochis storm rush is questionably op because its quick and can attack from all sides. Before people would just memorize the timing and not actually react to the attack but honestly you can just hit them before they reach you, so AS LONG as they don’t front your fine.
I think what a lot of people forget is that at it's core For Honor is very similar to a fighting game, and fg's put a very heavy emphasis on reading what your opponent does and appropriately dealing with it. It's what makes high level play interesting because both players are constantly recognizing the opponents patterns and changing their game plan accordingly. Latency and frame rates also plays a big part in whether something's reactable or not, dedicated servers are great and stabilized the game immensely but there's a reason why most major tournaments are hosted offline, and I really hope ubisoft takes the time to optimize the game further, especially with rainy maps.
yes you react, there are visual ques. When you have certain experience you don't always look at the guard gauge, you will only peek it to see the flash for countering an attack.
Because sometimes losing health can be unavoidable wouldn’t it be nice if if the health pool of every character was buffed. Right now if you guess wrong or mess up a timing you are punished by having a third of your health taken away. Especially on console where some attacks are guaranteed to hit if you missed the first block. I’d like to hear if anyone else has an opinion about this.
I used to play completely by reaction, but now ever since I incorporate guesses I also win a lot more against spammers but lose a lot when I don’t try to react. Once I can learn to do both I think I’ll generally improve.
to put into perspective of how unreactable a 167 ms light is based on reactions alone, being able to respond to something in 167 ms is something that only about 2-3% of people can do.
So basically.. we should be predicting 100% not trying to react? On console I have to parry 400ms lights before I even see them on my screen. I have the guard change time. It’s so dumb. It should be instant
Huh. I always knew my reaction times were crap, so I always try to predict people's patterns, but I didn't know there were actually unreactable moves in the game.
I noticed with berserker if you move he has trouble blocking. But if you sit still and start blocking than you’ll be fine. Also makes parrying so much more easier
I think delaying attack for making them (the indicator) faster, shouldn't be a thing. I feel this is a kind of a tactic which doesn't require skill, and rewards you great, although everyone has access to it, so it's not unfair, simply dumb.
Finally but I was also looking forward to the conq shield bash being mentioned. But yeah I agree some things are tottally unreactable these are just guesses. Well done! I don't know why they did that change it broke more then it actually fixed imo but that is just me...
Conq's shield bash is unreactable since it can be delayed so well..Being OOS against a Conqueror is certain death. Why? The shield bash almost drains more of your stamina than the Conqueror's, keeping you OOS for a good minute unless you keep your distance which you can't really. Dodge away quickly? They'll run to you, and shield bash your ass right back OOS again. If you try dodging, they will GB you, and get what..40 damage on the unblockable? Then shield bash you OOS again. Does Conq need another rework?
Unreactable Normal people: Cry. Try hards: guess correctly. Arch wizard cj, Flux deluxe, old man mapra: Parries that shit like a charged Shugoki heavy.
I found this content rather interesting. I've noticed that I react faster than my friends playing the game, but never took the time to figure out the speed of my reaction. I recorded my reaction times, running at a steady 60 fps, and my speed in frames was between 10 and 12 frames. Parry times were between 11-14 frames. Playing seriously, Warden's zone attacks were usually free damage as I could parry them a solid 90% of the time. With that in mind, I've realized I could theoretically parry lights fairly reliably and I'll definitely be trying that in more matches. I could only imagine the salt that would presume from someone having their light attacks parried over and over. Lol
Can we talk about orochi’s inconsistent range on his guard breaks? Sometimes they have the reach of a T-Rex but sometimes they have the reach of melee marth grab attack.
![[For Honor] 30 Minutes of Conqueror Antiganks](/img/n.gif)
My phone gets a higher fps than my console
Literally same bro like pc nerds need to realise console players are capped at 30 :(
@@NormalTed while it doesn't change the actual timing of the attack it certainly helps to see more frames of an animation my guy
@@harryennis601 fax. These are the same niggas who would probably combust if they played Battlefield at 30 fps instead of 60+
Wow, I mean, I know that you are very serious and that is why I follow you since your first raider gameplay videos, but somehow freeze, you keep getting better at this, information on point, you even gather data from other players, you are really dedicated with this. Thanks a lot to be one of the best youtubers out there on for honor content.
This about sums it up perfectly!
I second this!
I third this!
I fourth this
I fifth this!
I sixth this!
"Nah bro you just need the reaction time of a proffesional boxer just like me" The whole for honor reddit
+ PC playerbase
Latency is the true God of for honor.
Hertz also :)
i parried all orochis lights, with 230ms Ping.
@Bill Cosby ate too much vitamins dude, gone ultra instinct for 10 minutes straight. and im using a FAKIN SHinobi! fighting 2 orochis with fkn faints and shits.
@Bill Cosby Same here vortiger is the worst honestly
@Bill Cosby + i cant dodge shield bash my ping or his maybe after the light its always guaranteed this game is broken as fuck unless u have fastest internet cause against bot i can react honestly
Now i know why its a nightmare for console players
Armusha shuts down practically all assassins if they are cought in the spam the only escape is a deflect or hope your health depletes slower then his stamina
Cerberus The Demon plz stop saying silly things and just block top lol
@@PrinceYasuke gotta deflect it because those heavies just let him continue the spam
Cerberus The Demon his lights can only chain side to top or top to side, meaning they're super easy to predict. His soft feints are completely reactable from the side, and only fast from the top.
There's a reason he's listed as the second worst hero in the game, stop being a victim and learn how to play
Console players are generally better than pc players because we are bred to think and react at a much faster pace.
On pc things are so much easier, condole on the other hand? You need to be a god to prevail.
Now throw in 30fps and orochi lights all 3 on assassins are pretty much gurrented aramusha can succesfully light spam combo you to death valk can light spam and shaman litterally teleports
Also pk zone doesnt even look like an attack you just get indicator and a feint ghost
Its the best way to play For Honor.
You get light spammed to death by aramushas? Nani?!
You forgot to add a bad player to it
Thats why i use zerker so i can hyper armor through them lol
Husky Boy Zerker IS one of the light spammers
You really are that dude . THIS video is a MAJOR KEY. Respect Freeze .
NoahC ?
Title: UNREACTABLE
*plays against orochi*
me: yep pretty much
My favourite move is soft feinting ublockable left heavy to dodge heavy. People go crazy at dominion.
You play on console I guess?
Karl Björn yeap is harder to play on console
Karl Björn impossible to block on console
Χριστόφορος Γεωργούλας not impossible tho u just have to get good enough to do it
I swear, every game has the type of guy like this. For example For honor has freeze, csgo has 3klicksphilip and so on. It's amazing
There's broughy1322 for gta v
Laxyzo rogue 9 for rainbow 6
There's That Blasted Salami for Tekken 7
Limit breakers for Dark souls 3
MarcoStyle the division
>start incorporating reads into your gameplay
in other words, start guessin' boi
Glad I could help
Is barakett your in game name?
no, BarakYEET
@@BarakYEET YEEET
Very cool reactions, but I heard you just rely on your hardware, so not impressive
/s
Is that a gladiator pun?
Love this Freeze, will probably reference this one for a video I’m working on, if it’s fine with you!
it would be an honor
No, it would be For Honor. Silly mistake for a content creator.
I'm sorry. I'll get my coat.
@@LorisNoKami that
Was good
The devs need to hire you.
Couldn't agree more!
what does having knowledge of the game's stuff have to do with capability of working for this project?
@@Azuresh_ you do realize game developers hire people to test their games right? I'm saying he knows how to dissect this game's mechanics very well and the knowledge he could give them could (imo) take this game to a better state than what it is now. They need minds like his to improve the games mechanics.
Blood_Diamonds78 I was with you 100% until you spelled hire as 'higher'. The rest of the time I was 99% there
@@jordangarcia465 hah lol I didn't notice I spelled that wrong.
167ms to react to the Storm Rush.
Alrightey, time to make another stern worded thread on the subreddit.
Squiddle there are ways around this, who is your main?
Too bad you can just hit orochi out of storm rush
boredomkiller99 ikr or depending on the character just go in to full block stance
That's a load of bullshit. The average human reaction time for a visual imput is higher than 250ms
Yes I know, hyperarmour or full block e.g.
Just take the obvious joke for fucks sake.
Devs: "we do a lot of playtest"
So disappointing it's sad
The play test are on PC which is the sad part. The game isn't the same between the two platforms everyone and I mean everyone says pc is the easier version of the game
Not only that their play tests are with the top 1% playing against each other.
I’ve always wanted to see the Devs playing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This video right here is the reason I have been explaining time and time again to people that there is a difference between reactable, unreactable, and INCONSISTENTLY REACTABLE. I preach this difference because it's important to understand that just because you reacted to something once, doesn't mean it's completely reactable, but it doesn't mean it's completely unreactable just because you can't react to it the majority of the time.
In my mind, an unreactable attack is one that is absolutely impossible to reactively defend against (though, when fighting someone that can hit a 200 ms reaction every now and then, nothing is truly unreactable at that point). If it is possible to get your reaction time fast enough to occasionally react to it, it's not unreactable. It's inconsistently reactable, and within that, there is a whole range of what can qualify as inconsistently reactable, with some attacks leaning towards one side or the other. For some examples:
Kensei's Pommel Strike: Unreactable
Delayed 400 ms Lights: Inconsistently reactable, leaning to unreactable.
Plain 400 ms Lights: Inconsistently reactable, leaning to reactable.
600 ms Lights: Reactable.
As a result, there are actually very few truly unreactable attacks in the game, as it should be. Good, competitive game design should favor inconsistently reactable attacks, that lean towards unreactable, such as delayed 400 ms lights. These attacks would serve as reliable openers in fights, and would give players a skill ceiling to train for, to try and improve their reaction consistency as much as they can. However, it will never be possible to train your reactions to be fast enough to be considered actually consistent.
Anyways, that's enough ranting for me. Good video.
Another thing to bear in mind is the attention span, even if you are capable of on point reactions its difficult to mantain that level of focus during long periods of time, so to ease that task we rely on frequent patterns players with this or that hero tend to do, then we watch the particular pattern the opponent we are fighting in that moment and then we decide what moves we focus on. So something is reactable to you as long as you are prepared for it.
If in a duel the opponent is an assassin that only do light combos or a pk spamming the zone its easy for anyone to parry those consistently, problem is when you mix it with heavies, feints, bashes, etc. The more mix-up potential a hero has, the more work for your brain to focus on when you fight against it. its not the attack per se but the possible outcomes what makes you doubt before react. Add to it the, lets say, stress for being mistaken about choosing the wrong decision and that make it worse.
Also, when a new hero, like now the wu-lin faction, arrive, even moves that you would consider consistently reactable also make you doubt because you are not used to their animations.
There is a reason for why this focus thing happens, its exhausting brain-wise, and could be bad if you are constantly in that state.
@@Funkloned Right on the nose.
And let's not forget if you react to a character with a soft feint well... Tough shit loser, you should have just taken the hit. I started in beta, but since all the soft feints have been added I just can't figure out how to effectively do amything
You say this but forget that at least half the player base is stuck at 30fps.
And this is at PC. Imagine console players...
You get used to it and eventually work around it
@@dlf7789 yes that's why I play on Pc.
@@emiraydn5965 Its the reason I dont play on PC, the gameplay devolves into a slog where several charecters are useless and the gameplay itself slows down to a boring pace
I don't know you Iron of Kaiser, but I like you already.
Orochi on console is cancer...
And the 150 ms delay on console you did a few weeks ago basically mean you have to react to orochis storm rush in less than 20 ms.
*40 Orochi main shitters disliked this video*
I’m gonna say it
400 ms lights on console are beyond broken
Fear's Pack of Wolves 300* almost always
Plus 30 fps and input delays YAAAAAAY
That's why assassins on console are AIDS
:)
@@a7xarmageddon750 Glad is probably the only good one.
A LOT of the time my starter lights just get blocked, heavies are a different story however when it comes to people that like feinting into GB ;)
But other than that, it hurts my fucking brain playing Gladiator, having to calculate so many feints...That reflex guard tho.
*Zone is a little OP, but I'm a nice guy and like putting myself at a disadvantage. So I only use it to finish people. I usually have to feint into the zone because people actually DODGE it if you do just the zone alone..
Good to learn there is indeed a human inequality regarding who's at the top and who's not in For Honor, very good analysis ! :)
For Honor has a fundamental problem with itself.
Want things reactable, thus appearing 'fair' and have skill/reaction be the only factor? We will have another turtle meta with staring contest against even decent players.
Want unreactable attacks? It gets infuriating for the player to have to guess instead of using skill to peoperly counter the opponent's attacks.
I think the solution is one that we are going towards; make every character have these tools, or at least tools that deal with that stuff.
Will it add to the 'no skill all guessing' thing? Yes. However, I VASTLY prefer that over things turning into a staring match where both opponents will only throw out safe moves or nothing landing.
Something Something Make blocking and parrying more difficult and less safe is another method worth consider
@@lisupei6042
That's an interesting thought, however, how would you make blocking harder? With parrying, you can reduce the window of timing and make it harder that way I guess, but with blocking, the only thing I can think of is making the guard transition time slower. However, that would make the combat feel slow and clunky as Hell, and you could complain that you are reacting to what's happening, but your character is just too slow.
I had this issue as a Raider main since day 1 before they made guard transition timing more even across the board.
Something Something Blocking could drain stamina and the amount may be increased the more you blocked, that leaves both the attacker and defender exhausted at the end of the combo and neither could punish the other, parrying may have the flickering indicator removed , that way peoples will actually have to read the animations
@@lisupei6042
The blocking idea would indeed push people away from turtling.
What do you mean get rid of a "flickering indicator"?
Something Something I mean the attack indicator no longer flicker when you are in the parry window timing, you will have to actually look at the animation to decide your next move, of course all the unreactable bullshits will need to go if these changes happen.
When you get light spammed and then the enemy says you are salty
and they right 😂
@@AssassinIronMan spamming a button ain't really the best way to play a game, and on console they're unreactable
This is exactly why I randomly go full block when I'm conqueror. I don't want to deal with it!
Flail uppercut is a great feeling when landed on a light spammer. Their in game reaction is usually paniac.
Yeah. Then a ledgebringer will do a shove spam. Followed by a Centurion throwing you on the ground. Finally a Shugoki does demons embrace before you get up.
@@arturopacheco89 Centurion can't throw you down if you have no stamina, and if you're taking hits when he stuns you with a fully charged heavy. Not op, it's not Shaman's bite where it's instant fucking D E A T H.
How is lawbringers normal shove an issue? Are the mindsets and reaction times of 4v4 players that much different from 1v1 players? I played duels for the longest time and switches to 4v4s because it's *EASIER*
The shove on it's own actually fucking hits because people can't react for shit, they dodge Everytime you shove as well
Don't let LAWBRINGER of all characters get in your head...by some sorcery..
That's your fault if you get in a three v one against Centurion, Lawbringer and Shugoki.
@@adorablecenturion8436 Centurion can whiff and charge an uppercut to knock you down actually B. In fact it's the go-to gank strat when there's more than one cent in a gank.
@@Zombinejerry It's your fault for putting yourself in the position too, you always stay with teammates in 4v4. At least walk in a pack of two.
PC orochi: alright, balanced class, kinda. Console orochi: lOl R1 sPaM tImE
Basically what happens.
Orochi players disgust me
He's my favorite hero... ;(
I can see where you're coming from, but I've been thinking about picking him up just because I think he's cool overall.
Otherwise, I honestly feel the same. Watching my brother and friend play For Honor at a low level and losing to Orochi's Light spam is awful. It's disheartening.
Having to explain to them shit like this?
They've uninstalled the game. And it being one of my favorite games, I want to support it.
But how do you defend this? What could I possibly tell them? It's just sad.
Lord Wanda Perhaps you can tell them to try and read when they’ll throw and attack so that maybe they can squeeze an attack of their own in before they get hit. Or, if they get hit, try and block a random direction really quickly but if they’re able to see the attack coming in in time, then of course block it. But that’s just what I do.. Best of luck to you
@@Proxyudai I personally don't have issues with Orochi's new kit.
But to unseasoned newbies it's hell. Every single match the same thing.
An Orochi Light spamming as much as possible and they don't have any hope.
Ofc I try to give sound advice, but we all play on PS4 and to them it's nearly impossible no matter what I tell them
i was gonna buy orochis for my first, then i realized using an easy hero is interesting, and boom i bought Shinobi for 24/7 deflect
And then you heard some people say
"It's is easy to parry orochi lights, it's useless attacks, I parry every time, not guessing ,just reacting , I'm a god." Lmao
I mean coming from a orochi main on console almost everyone i meet block about everyattack unless i feint
Or bait them
Well it’s pretty easy to do on pc unless heavy feint
@No Name nah its not unreactable i block it all the time
@No Name no, it's 400 ms attack, check the video
So instead of reworking the block, they just made everything unreachable. Nice job ubi
It is ubi. What do you expect.
“You have to react in 167 ms” regular people have a reaction time of around 250 ms. ok this game is fair and balanced.
You don’t have to react, you have to guess and predict
Veronique Benoit I understand you. I suggest training with Orochi Bots, enabling his light attack and disabling the interval between his attacks. Then you can train it, so your reflexes get better, you learn how his animations work and your muscle memory with blocking (and then parrying) gets better. It helps a lot. But at the end, it’s a unbalanced an stupid game, sometimes fun but quitting and doing other things probably would be a better suggestion :)
Comical Core
Input lag can be up to 100 ms depending on your console setup, so hypothetically a guy with bad internet and a huge television wouldn’t be able react to the attacks shown at all. Let’s say that he has a 100 ms delay between when he presses the button and when his character shifts guard. There’s a 100 me delay between when you shift guard and when the character shifts guard. Now he has to react in 167 ms.
When reacting to one of these attacks, even with just a 100 ms delay, first he has to see the attack, then he has to press the button, which by that time the attack has already happened, giving the Orochi time to throw out another light attack. There’s already a small delay between when your brain sees the attack, registers it and tells your thumb to press a button or move the stick, and depending on where you set controller dead zones that could be even longer.
That’s why For Honor, like _all fighting games_ relies on prediction at some level. So yes, the game is balanced, it’s just not balanced the way you like it. Sure, a lightspamming orochi is usually a 33/33/33, but usually there’s a pattern and they don’t bother to look at your guard, so you can keep it in one position and you’ll eventually block their attack most of the time, giving you a chance to recover, and if that doesn’t work then watch for a pattern. The game is fair and balanced, you just need to think a little bit.
Also Ost Wind is completely correct, train against bots.
Very informative as always. This will be a moment of clarity for most of the players about reading and reacting.
I started on console and tried it on PC during free week. Never went back ever again.
I've seen ravelord ingame. His reaction times are scary, but he seems dependant on indicators for reaction. I've seen him go for light parries and eat raw heavies quite a few times, lol.
Been playing on console since Alpha. Been have cancer with those lights since then I got used to it. Can't even get mad anymore lol
Itane
Before orochi's rework he was managable, them came the rework...
@@Perifroog Rework made him cheap.
@@Ithmari rework made him viable lol. Orochi was garbage pre rework, the only assassin with raider speed light attacks besides top stance, which was predictable. You could literally keep your guard top stance and orochi couldn't do anything.
@@bigrob10p I'm an Orochi main don't explain me my main man I'm playing since Alpha. Orochi used to take skill that's all I'm saying. He needed the rework.
@@Ithmari his back dodge to heavy counter was godlike. I miss it lol. I dont like the rework, feels like im using a super good character compared to back then when orochi was just "okay" or low tier
Finally someone who talks about it, I honestly don't like the direction for honor is taking...Its getting too fast imo. probably some people will say that i'm just bad , but i play since the beta and went to master already. Your video is really nice. thank you for sharing it with the community.
Whenever someone with an unstable 50 ping joins the game... There is even less consistency and more bullshittery. This gets worse up to 140 ping and over 140 "I" will have an 'advantage' again.
And I'm a 11 ping player...
WOW, just WOW. All I can say to you and this vid.
I am old to this vid, however I am glad that I watched this. I am an old fella, so my reaction is not as good as the young ones. This vid gave me the confidence in what I am doing. Thanks again.
On some days I parry Orochi on what seems to be reaction, but it's really half read. On others I get consistently hit by Nobu lights. Gotta mind your own condition as well when choosing how to approach a fight.
Anton Exists What's wrong with nobu's lights pretty sure they are 500ms
The animation is clear very early. They are maybe the easiest to parry on reflex, out of all 500s.
@@Tacticaviator7 only her side lights are 500ms her top light is 600ms
successfully guessing a storm rush and successfully do a crushing counter on it is such a bliss m8.
i did it twice to an orochi
i came the second time
Too bad it's a heavy at that speed and not a light.
Light spam. Hooray!
Oooh so that's why my guards doesnt count, there's a delay xD thanks
Problem is orochi gets a confirmed top light in a light combo. It’s literally impossible to even block it
Its only 22 damage.
@@sgtflamingo6532 yeah a 300ms attack only does a full bar scrub get good
You can predict it
Is it really confirmed?? I've really tried to block it and it always gets me but sometimes I feel like I'm too slow
SgtFlamingo 32* they get two strikes for the price one if they land a top light. then the third hit generally lands on people trying too hard to block the 2nd hit, which is guaranteed, so Orochi gets anywhere from 32-48 damage off of a top light most of the time.
if you can read them, you're fine.
Huge thanks for making this video and to the people that helped. Huge huge thanks sincerely.
So I'm looking at UA-cam while doing some homework just because I'm taking a little break and usually I don't watch videos while doing homework (I just plan ahead what I'm gonna watch when I'm done) and this video just caused me to stop everything and watch it because I feel that Freeze's videos are probably the more important ones that show up in my feed.
About that 400ms pommel strike: It's has one disadvantage for the Kensei: you cannot delay the follow up attack at all, if you input it late, the enemy can block or parry. This leads to that the Kensei cannot input the light on reaction to a successful pommel strike, he must input, while in the animation of the pommel strike, so the Kensei basically must guess if the opponent gonna dodge it or not.
Which is nice, since a move so hard (for some people at least) to dodge should have a substantial punish if the Kensei wasn’t able to tell if the opponent was capable of dodging it or not
What do you mean freeze I parry delayed 400ms orochi lights on console all the time. 💯 reaction. You just need to git gud.
/s
Dr Frankendoodle oh yeah cuz that's believable. Lol
Umm....I react and block to most things. The times I don't is when I guess.
Not true
coach learner I think several people here don’t know what /s means...
@@drfrankendoodle Or no one actually cares.
Thank you very very much for this! absolutely great video with so much knowledge directed precisely and clearly.
A huge thanks to Barak and Ravelord, boy are they quick that's for sure, would not want to go against them with my slow ass.
Hey Freeze, what are the chances of high packet loss and some lag spikes causing you to get hit in certain cases. I consider myself a good player with fast reactions but one of the frustrations i have when playing online is moment's where I've predicted a move, gave in the input at the proper time yet still got hit. In all of those scenarios I saw the high packet loss icon. Is it possible that there can be input loss in for honor?
Edit: I wanted to say that this hasn't once happened to me in offline where I can indeed react to 400ms attacks without any issue yet when I predict in online the above happens.
Probably because online the actual time you need to react to the move isn't the same as offline because of lag compensation. You may be fast enough but the actual input timing may be different than what is actually happening on screen
because people get rewarded for lagging, even if youre opponent is the one lagging its gonna be teleport fighter. Basically switching For Honor to dedicated servers was just increasing the latency since people lagging still fucks people with good connections
I think it is more complicated than that. I have fought people with consistent latency of 100-150ms, and they attacks didn't skipped that much animation consistently, rather sometimes I experienc a sudden 0.5-1s lag. I recall one time I fought a Cent with a latency above 100, he was fine, than one moment, the unblockable heavy indicator appeared, than disappeared, I thought he canceled it, (didn't realized that it is not hard feint able), than 1s latter I was suddenly in the wall. I experienced that people with 200ms or more latency are consistently skipping animation.
I'm so glad i found this channel, its so great!
Where is Aramusha on all this? Great video bro.
Pd: Orochi and Aramusha are the worst.
One of the most informative videos yet. Very interesting, thank you for the upload
Annoying orochi players: just git gud, orochi isnt even that good.
Then why do you play him boi
God forbid people play a hero they think is cool. If people only played heroes that were good, lawbringer and shugoki mains wouldn't exist.
Broadway tbh shugoki mains are never in duels
No joke i used to be a orochi main. But I realised that I wanted to be good at the game so now i play other people 😂
This video was really well made and interesting. Here's some of my thoughts, if they integrated distinct sounds for every attack we would be able to react to them off of memory because our hearing reaction is much quicker, it would also open up audio feints. And on PC it's much easier to react to this sort of thing because of the much higher FPS potential. Visually everything's more fluid and there's a much bigger visual que to the attacks.
every now and then I just have this brutal moment of clarity about how FH is just a pretty bad game.
This is a great video. I was only talking about it the other day, and was testing myself against a bot orochi. Came to conclusion that dash heavy is unreactable! Great work dude, subbed.
Ive actually used a website to test my reaction time. I have a slow 230-270 reaction. While my friend had something like 210. Some other youtuber i saw using that website had reactin as low as 180ms (A professional FPS gamer)
Thats pretty much what human is capable of (144hz monitor with top mouse and low ping would help reduce reaction by 30-60ms i would imagine)
So that shows that attacks with 233ms reaction windows like orochi lights are barely reactable and anything faster than that is pure guesswork
400ms attack
In console
200ms
You probably try'n block 50 ms in
Your guard moves on 100
You have 50 ms to successfully react
Am i wrong?
Still aren't 9 months later
You probably already know this, Freeze, but there's a small window of time in the getting-up animation after being knocked down where you're grabbable by demon's embrace but can't dodge, (which by the way means that if you've got 2 shugokis working together with good timing, you can chain guaranteed back breaks.) I know there are probably a lot of other issues that you'd like to test for new videos, but if you see this and are interested, I'd love to learn about the timing window for guaranteed grabs (because I think the timing is similar for other characters too, like raider's running grab). If you're not interested, now at least you know about the guaranteed hug chain, which has to be one of the cheesiest things in the game.
The good thing fighting an spaming orochi as zerker, I eat a hit but go on but he gets staggered and has to defend, but most orochis (real mains) suck in defending.
This is one reason why I chose to play Berserker he is truly a beast. I literally can go against three people at the same time but damn those spamming of roaches are freaking annoying. But I found those type of people to be in Dominion matches.
LOL destroying any assasin with zerker is so easy, there is nothing to be proud of.
Also I will never understand why people are angry because of orochi when zerker is like 3 times stronger then him. Hyper armor on everything, faster zone, ublockable heavies and even more 400 ms lights. Guess people just have to hate every samurai character in the game because of stupid deus vult memes.
Luzik Arbuzik
Cry more please. People with skill have no bigger problems against Zerker then against any other hero in this game but people who love to dictate their own playstyle and pace suffer because they are one tricks who can not adapt after losing control. The only thing I can say to you is the only truth there is: GIT GUD and adapt.
Everything you said is also bullshit: hyper only after feint, first hit or leap attack (whick is suicide to use, because you can parry it with closed eyes), zone is as fast as most other ingame and forsure not faster then pk or orochi, there are no unblockable heavies! there is an unblockable combo finisher and zerks heavies are slow af and his combo fnisher is >90% reactable. And he has no "even more 400ms lights" he has only 400ms combo lights, that means there has to be a heavy or feint before the attack so the get orochis speed zerker needs to use 1/3 of stamina for an light while orochi uses 1/10 for the same attack. Get your facts together before posting bullshit please. and by the way hate on every samurai? is your weeb honor under attack? noone has a single problem with samurais the only problem is starting the game with a real char and getting spammed and then BM'ed! Remeber one thing: pressing rapidadly M1 is NOT skill.
actually there is a hint of skill behind R1 spamming. Is it safe to continue? Which side do I go to? Would a heavy throw off the opponents timing? Do I soft feint the second heavy into a light, or hard feint into a zone for a potential 50/50 mixup, or go defensive and hope for a BB? Would heavy spam just be safer?
-Nearly everyone has a problem with Shubroki as well, he's too damn weak-
[Cries in Console Lawbringer]
me
So its a buttonmashing fest now?
Great video, I'd been wondering about Orochi's storm rush because I was often trying to react to the attack and was always getting hit but I soon accepted it wasn't going to happen and now I just valiant breakthrough as Warden whenever I see an Orochi dash backwards in the stance.
Unreactable? So 60% of the attacks on console, lol
Yep
lmao y'all thought orochi was a problem. meet jiang jun the final boss
JJ is orochi prime
I like the state of the game.. the thing about all these fast attackers is that their gsmeplay style is very one dimensional and readable, even if it's not always reactable.. for example.. me on my warden against a pk, she does a zone into top bleed very consistently so I end up learning to parry that and get a free top heavy... these fast attackers have low hp so one bit hit is devastating. Against most fast attackers I use spacing and look for opportunities to move in, usually they get frustrated and start spamming if very obvious ways. Like berserkers feint from side to side and is usually predictable. If you're just standing still looking for parries and thinking you can block every attack, you gunna die. The meta is good like this because it counters a purely defensive meta which wad much worse.
They also got the guard break and if u look at all the other characters , basically they all boil down to , use character ability , light or heavy , guard break and parry. To an orochi it's just , move ,light , guardbreak repeat
About zones into bleed...What about Shaman? Who is PK, but better? Her zone is infuriating..She can already feint heavies into bleed attacks from any direction.
The zone is unnecessary.
_"People tend to have patterns"_
*Crushing Counter Strikes PK's zone 2 times in a row*
And instead of a skill based game they thought it would be better off a reaction based game...
You also have to make a comparison between 60hz and 144hz refresh rate because the difference is really big.
jo1807fly What's the difference
In terms of animation frames. While having a lower refresh rate for example 60hz you only get to see half of the animation. If it's for a 144hz refresh rate (or higher) you see more of the attack frames. I would pretty much compare 60hz to a console player's point of view but only a bit better.
jo1807fly Another annoying feature that have no reason being in the game🤣
Many skill based games are reaction based games. Reaction is part of what makes you skillful. Not sure what you are getting at here. What you said sounded a bit contradictory.
oof. And this doesn't take into account any hardware limitations. If your graphics card craps out you'll have frame drops, your ping will give you latency, and then there's input lag that'll reduce the time you have to react. Just getting into for honor during quarantine; nice video!
I wish this game was more about mind games, outsmarting your opponent, and less about reaction times. Valk, Orochi, and PK can be booth cancerous and trash. They have very limited mind games, and they test your reaction time, rather than reading skills. If you have the reaction, you gonna destroy them, if don't, they gonna destroy you. I think the latter is more likely, cause as you said, few posses this kind of reaction, as this is really at the peak of what humans are capable of.
Blackwolf Just outsource the next reworks to some competent Japanese studio, better yet just hire them to fix the game from the ground up, they are the only ones who know well how to make a balanced and consistent fighting game, Ubisoft is stupid as hell 😥
I actually don’t have a problem with all of this being “unreactable”, since mind games then play a bigger role, and that would usually mean that game experience with mind games wins matches and not a guy who’s just got insane reactions.
Edit: When i say “unreactable” i am refering to what he’s saying in the video
and when i say mind games, i mean predict what his next move is gonna be.
Only talking for pc.
Yes spamming lights is such a fun intense mind game
Chase Birch No, but predict where they are coming from. so you can parry and get a punish
@@ckjaer5288 like the video said it's a guessing game, how do I know if it's coming from left, right or top? It's literally just a roll of the dice with a 1/3 chance unless your opponent attacks in a pattern, which if you are even close to a decent rep, they wont
Chase Birch Everyone attacks in a pattern without realising
+Chase Birch Fighting games are supposed to have mindgames and reads over reactions. The notion that everything needs to be reactable is a really bad mindset this community has. Things being reactable means you just get defensive meta and a horrible experience where the better you get at the game, the less fun it is to watch and play.
You are the best for honor UA-camr you surprise me with every upload being exactly something I want great job keep up!
just delete peace keeper and orochi, then we can play normally xd
High quality content.
I mean u can light spam people on console with orochi or aramusha
But please note that u did not won the battle because of a certain skill level. But rather because of legal hacks.
But aramusha is straight garbage even on console. Like I seriously cannot remember the last time I actually lost to an aramusha in a 1v1 scenario.
@@bigrob10p A good Aramusha and a decent amount of latency is pretty much guaranteed death in a console 1v1 unless you're playing Conq or Lawbringer
@@georgefranko8373 dead wrong . I play on xbox, and like I said, I can't remember the last time I lost to an aramusha. Keep in mind, I'm in mid master.
@@bigrob10p I play console as a GM. Maybe it has to do with your main? I play Shinobi and I get melted
@@georgefranko8373 I highly doubt you are GM and still get bodied by aramusha. I main PK
Thank you!!!!! I can now scream at my friends and back it up.
I have no trouble parrying orochis light attacks, git gut scrubs
Lol people STILL say that? 😥
Salskea Hirvi k lol, like the whole pc community
@@ard5176 Ps4 -_-
It's odd to see so many people who can't
R/wooooooosh for all of you
yeah in a game like for honor everything needs balance. the larger the pay off, the larger the risk for doing the attack. but they seem to disregard that recently. the new characters are fine, things like the traps with nuxia getting good damage and nice pressure. but the damage is higher with the zone trap because its only one direction, so its easier to deal with. but then theres things like shaman who can jump at you and attack from any guard and its stupid. the closest thing to that is orochi, but orochi needs to jump back to do it, and its slower
Slow orochi down. Every time I see an orochi on console with a ton of reps in orochi it’s just cringy. If you need to play as the easiest character in the game you are bad. On console orochi is so hard to counter. There’s a reason orochi is a tier higher on console than on pc.
Conq and Orochi are mindless characters. Either throw lights or spam shield bash. Whiff the bash? Light. Accidentally full guard? Oh, you have a split second guard break window.
couldnt agree more. If I come up against a roachi while messing around with different characters they usually just light spam to a win unless I get some good reads, so what ive found works is to rematch with aramusha. Because they dont change thier patterns blade blockade sends them into a meltdown. Having a much harder time with conquerors though, cant seem to find a decent counter.
Well there was a time when orochi was actually fun to play I had mained him at launch but got more interested in raider, went back to him after awhile before rework, now I'm just disappointed.
@@jphtm2594 whiff the bash, throw a light, then get immediately parried because that's the most predictable shit ever lol. You slow orochi down, he goes right back in the trash bin with shugoki and lawbringer
@@bigrob10p He's already in the trash bin on PC, very obnoxious on console, I don't know if they reworked Shugoki in the last couple months but he's definitely a beast in Dominion.
Your work is really commendable! Thanks for making me more confident in this game! Otherwise, light spam gives me depression of being an useless player.
I will start reading now.
"orochi's delayed lights are unreactable"
Mgoldie parrying them in the background
well done... comprehension skill through the roof
You can't compare mGoldie (a God !!)....to us peasants......
mGoldie guessing correctly intensifies
you never know ;)
LUL Mgoldie himself pops in to say nah man I just guess really fast
Orochis storm rush is questionably op because its quick and can attack from all sides. Before people would just memorize the timing and not actually react to the attack but honestly you can just hit them before they reach you, so AS LONG as they don’t front your fine.
I think what a lot of people forget is that at it's core For Honor is very similar to a fighting game, and fg's put a very heavy emphasis on reading what your opponent does and appropriately dealing with it. It's what makes high level play interesting because both players are constantly recognizing the opponents patterns and changing their game plan accordingly.
Latency and frame rates also plays a big part in whether something's reactable or not, dedicated servers are great and stabilized the game immensely but there's a reason why most major tournaments are hosted offline, and I really hope ubisoft takes the time to optimize the game further, especially with rainy maps.
Very informative. I don’t feel so bad now. I still think the players with the godly reaction speeds are on adderall.
This makes me feel a lot better
yes you react, there are visual ques. When you have certain experience you don't always look at the guard gauge, you will only peek it to see the flash for countering an attack.
Because sometimes losing health can be unavoidable wouldn’t it be nice if if the health pool of every character was buffed. Right now if you guess wrong or mess up a timing you are punished by having a third of your health taken away. Especially on console where some attacks are guaranteed to hit if you missed the first block. I’d like to hear if anyone else has an opinion about this.
I used to play completely by reaction, but now ever since I incorporate guesses I also win a lot more against spammers but lose a lot when I don’t try to react. Once I can learn to do both I think I’ll generally improve.
4.28 ye you think we would ignore that voice crack
This was a great video man. Well done.
Always a pleasure to watch your videos, keep it up ;)
Great video, very informative
to put into perspective of how unreactable a 167 ms light is based on reactions alone, being able to respond to something in 167 ms is something that only about 2-3% of people can do.
Mekel
Don't forget about hardware limitations.
Between screen reaction and controller of choice it could be for example 160ms of actual input window.
You don't need to react to it tho. Block left and focus on two remaining sides.
So basically.. we should be predicting 100% not trying to react?
On console I have to parry 400ms lights before I even see them on my screen.
I have the guard change time. It’s so dumb. It should be instant
Huh. I always knew my reaction times were crap, so I always try to predict people's patterns, but I didn't know there were actually unreactable moves in the game.
I noticed with berserker if you move he has trouble blocking. But if you sit still and start blocking than you’ll be fine. Also makes parrying so much more easier
I think delaying attack for making them (the indicator) faster, shouldn't be a thing. I feel this is a kind of a tactic which doesn't require skill, and rewards you great, although everyone has access to it, so it's not unfair, simply dumb.
most counters are off of prediction than reaction so he's actually very correct as usual
Finally but I was also looking forward to the conq shield bash being mentioned. But yeah I agree some things are tottally unreactable these are just guesses. Well done!
I don't know why they did that change it broke more then it actually fixed imo but that is just me...
Conq's shield bash is unreactable since it can be delayed so well..Being OOS against a Conqueror is certain death. Why? The shield bash almost drains more of your stamina than the Conqueror's, keeping you OOS for a good minute unless you keep your distance which you can't really. Dodge away quickly? They'll run to you, and shield bash your ass right back OOS again.
If you try dodging, they will GB you, and get what..40 damage on the unblockable? Then shield bash you OOS again.
Does Conq need another rework?
Unreactable
Normal people: Cry.
Try hards: guess correctly.
Arch wizard cj, Flux deluxe, old man mapra: Parries that shit like a charged Shugoki heavy.
I found this content rather interesting. I've noticed that I react faster than my friends playing the game, but never took the time to figure out the speed of my reaction. I recorded my reaction times, running at a steady 60 fps, and my speed in frames was between 10 and 12 frames. Parry times were between 11-14 frames. Playing seriously, Warden's zone attacks were usually free damage as I could parry them a solid 90% of the time. With that in mind, I've realized I could theoretically parry lights fairly reliably and I'll definitely be trying that in more matches. I could only imagine the salt that would presume from someone having their light attacks parried over and over. Lol
Can we talk about orochi’s inconsistent range on his guard breaks? Sometimes they have the reach of a T-Rex but sometimes they have the reach of melee marth grab attack.
What about framerate? Imagine you play on 60 fps but other person plays at 144. Thats definitly an advantatge..right?