I disconnected the fuel line to the burner & ran the pump until I could fill a bottle of clear fuel. I changed the fuel filter & nozzle. Disassembled the blower & opened the pump & cleaned out the sludge. I never cleaned out the pump before & do not know if any of the tecs I had in for service over the years did so. The pump I have is a single stage 3450 rpm Western. Boiler ran the best ever. Only for 2 days. Now it struggles to stay running as if out of fuel. I have a follow up. PG2
grayfurnaceman thank you for your reply. I will check the fittings again but there were not any gaskets around the edge when I opened the pump up. There was something that could be a gasket that did not touch the edges. It is behind the round piece that houses the gears in the pump. I could not get it off & did not want to destroy it I did not have a replacement. It looked like it may be a filter of some sort. Do you have any idea as to what it is?
It should be a screen. If you hear any pump noise during operation, there is air in the line. You can also hook a hose to the bleed fitting (lower right on the video) and run it into a can to see if air comes out while bleeding. That should tell you if there is a air leak. If the burner starts and stops while running that could be air or blockage. I would try silicone seal for a gasket. GFM
PG2. I had it off for the day.I was about to take it apart but started it again & it ran perfect for 2days. This pump did not have a screen or filter. I am not sure if someone pulled it out or not. Any suggestions as to my next step? I now have the boiler off. Thank you
That's from air in the gun line and no solenoid. Sometimes after running for a while the air will absorb into the oil and it mostly stops. There are some gun assemblies are designed to bleed air through but it does not always work. Any way its normal. Hope this helps. GFM
Any idea what causes these pumps to want to only build pressure up to a certain point then suddenly drop back to near zero when turned up past that point, but then repressurize when the pressure screw is turned back down? They all were able to pull a high vacuum ( ~20 - 25 inches) on the inlet and hold it indefinitely, so it wasn't due to air leaks. And the pressure regulator/shutoff spools were perfect and worked well when tested in good working pumps as well. I've come across that problem in a number of pumps even when brand new now in both the old mechanical startup bypass design and the newer solenoid controlled 'Clean cut" types.
I am reposting this,, My Burhnam hot water boiler,, resonates a high pitch noise,, very loud when positioned between the furnace and oil tank which are in different rooms..new filter ,, oil line.. seem to be resonating thru the oil line,, thanks for any info
I thank you very much for your videos, they are very informative!! I am an appliance service tech but like to learn about all things mechanical. Here's a ? for you. What would make a Beckett burner keep piddling fuel out the nozzle after its turned off? Not a drip mind you, but a thin stream. Pressure seemed to be caused by gravity, outside tank level about 7' above furnace. Is there a valve in the pump that can stick? Old sundstrand pump, no solenoid, scared the crap out of me! (Replacing it!)
My thought is that you have an air leak. If the oil tank is below the burner, with a 2 pipe system, air leaks are common without an oil slick. Also the oil filter may be getting plugged. Check out the oil filter vid. GFM
There is a possibility that you have a vacuum leak. On the inlet side of the pump either in the gaskets or the fittings it could be leaking air into the pump. Check that out.
Read these backwards. So I will answer this last. The filter is absolutely necessary! Very rapid pulses are normal. If the pulses are not even, you could have a blockage or a vacuum leak in the line. Hope this helps. GFM
I know this sounds like a strange question, but can you please tell me exactly what the material is you have under the pump? I've been looking for that type of material for some time now. If you can tell where you purchased or what it is I would appreciate it. Or if you want to sell me any (clean) maybe we can do that?
Man, i love the video's. Wonder if you could answer something for me, i got a oil furnace that i have to prime to start. it will run for a couple of days then, i got to run back over there prime it and reset it. i dont see no signs of leaks, this pump system has a two line system, or supply/return style setup. any suggestions would really help me out. Thanks and again the videos are a great tool.
crob227 What happened to be the issue with yours? I have the same thing going on, had a plumber change filter and new pump & we had hot water for a day and then same thing again. Got me for $550 for that nice job he did too
i have 5 year old riello burner fuel getting past fuel filter unit turns on keeps trying to fire up but just does not lite up after a while of trying a lot of smoke what do i do screen in pump is spotless
Hi how do I know if a loud vibrating noise is my oil pump of motor bearing? Thanks I really enjoy your videos. I took a video but I cannot figure out how to post it yet!
No that type of silicone will not be oil proof. You are better off cutting out a new gasket from automotive gasket paper or using Ultra Black RTV silicone that's made to resist oil.
Rondo Schiavoni Always use a new gasket. For two reasons: 1)The old gasket will get brittle and stick to both the pump cover as well as the pump body. 2) Replacing the strainer without using a new gasket invites the issues of reason#1 and a leak. Trust me: You don't want a leak. Not even a small weep. While i'm passing out free advice, let me add this: torque the bolts in stages like you were putting a wheel on your car. That cove is pretty thick,but you can still "tweak" it. And it will weep. Tight is good, over tight is not. The bolt at the lower left corner is particularly susceptible to stripping out. Don't be a gorilla. Be a tech.
Do yourself a favor! Install an semi truck diesel fuel filter with a water separator petcock. I drain mine every week and it prevents any water from going in the pump. You'd be amazed at the water it will catch!
You should not have to check for water every week. If you getting water, check and clean the tank. Water should collect in the tank because the pickup tubes should not pull from the very bottom.
I have a question the oil pump shaft should it turn easy or on the stiff side but still turns I think it’s the pump I bleed it I get a clear flow but every like 5 second i get spitting but still get a clear flow when it goes to lock out it makes a grinding noise it turns off and the motor and pump come to a stop thanks
Thank you for your help I compared a new pump to the old pump the old one had a little binding new one had resistance like you said but it was smooth also replaced the motor was making a grinding noise also added a new coupler just in case I started and it ran but with a misfire noise so I called my oil company service I told the guy what I did when he got home and it was the pump pressure it was low from factory is 100 lbs and the original was 140 so he set it to 140 and it runs like a kitten thanks for your help
Probably a partially plugged nozzle. At this point you may have a plugged smoke pipe and heat exchanger. When the oil is not atomized, it burns with a smoky fire. This one needs a thorough service. May want a professional for this. GFM
I checked pressure, and it's good and also holds with pump off. But no spay from new nozzle. Acting like clogged but it pumps oil out of the end of the nozzle tube. Just no spray. ???
ok thanks, I'll try again. I replaced it 2 times already. And keep retesting pressure to see if it has pressure and if it's holding on shutoff. All seems good just no spray only a drip drip drip at the nozzle. I can take nozzle off and it pumps oil out. I can only guess nozzle still getting clogged somehow ? What do you think dirty oil or something ? Thanks for the replies
I took the nozzle off and let it run. The oil is coming out but it's not smooth continuously. It does flow mostly smooth but it's also surging. It makes a winding noise like a power steering pump going bad. Also I took the pump out and some sweating or oil at the shaft seal. I should mention the pump is 20 years old. Would you suspect pump going bad and just replace or can the pump be repaired with repair kit or something ? Please advise Thanks
Ok, I actually took apart the new nozzle and cleaned it, took off the sinter filter and brass screw pin with distributor tip. washed all out with WD40 then installed without sinter filter and screw pin just to see if any stream at all would come out. It sort of peas out as expected. Then I put back in with screw pin and distributor but without sinter filter and I get a spray. However, I'm not sure I'm liking the spray pattern. It's a B nozzle and does have a B pattern but more of a pea pattern in the center and coned spray on the outer edges looks ok. and also after shutting down the pump it spray and sprays for a while ? If this sprays for like 30 seconds inside the pump after shutdown all the time that would make a huge mess. Sounds like I have pump issues of various types not just nozzle issues. How much pressure should remain in the nozzle tube from the pump to the nozzle tip after shutdown ? Any at all ? Or should it just bleed to nothing very quickly if there were any issue with pump valve shufoff ? Sorry for multi questions just a strange furnace doing strange things IMO.
Help! Have a customer with a Roth type tank, 2 pipe install. They have maintenance every year or two. Two weeks ago, motor failed, motor replaced (not by me). Came in again a week later, I went there, found the pump lucked up. Replaced with a clean cut pump. Did a tune up before that. No dirt in pump, strainer fairly clean. Fed with a General filter with a #15 filter element. New pump locked up today. Carefully disassembled cap, shaft facing up. Oil nice and red, clear, no signs of water. Once I rock the shaft free using the blower wheel, it will run perfectly. Amperage is 5-6 amps on start, 1.2 amps on run. Any idea as to why this brand new pump would lock up like the old pump? I'm stumped at this point.
Is the new motor a centrifugal start motor? It sounds like it from the amp draw. But some of the newer motors are PSC and do not have as much starting torque. Hope this helps. Let me know what you find. GFM
Present motor is a constant cap type. The problem is not the motor. The problem is the pump locking up after about a week. No water, no dirt in old or new pump. Tank is a vertical type with top draw. Pump is configured with a return line. Once the pump shaft is rocked free it runs ok until the next time. I give amp draw of motor to illustrate that there is no unusual drag ( no cavitation, etc.).
I don't have any answers here. The pump fails to start for 3 reasons. Internal resistance (contaminants in the oil), regulator failure(regulator never bypasses), or inadequate torque from the motor. GFM
grayfurnaceman I agree. I suspect a laxk if lubricity in the oil or dirt. The Roth type tank is a top draw, particulates have a hard time climbing the dip tube, at least on a single pipe system. I dropped the cap off the pump, shaft side up, to ensure whatever contaminates there are still there when i examine it. No dice. Pristine. The pump is tight to the touch with motor removed. definitely not the motor. A real "head scratcher" for sure. Can't blame you for not knowing. As my old boss would say, "If it were easy, everybody would be doing it."
I have an oil pup. not pumping oil throught it. checked for blockage, ,all clear, changed filters, I have oil in the lines up the pump but it is not pumping , I checked the screen, it is clear. motor is turning , pump is turning but not pumping oil. any help would be appreciated.
+grayfurnaceman thank you for replying. one last question. when I replace it will it ready to run or will I have to make any adjustments to the new pump. like vacuum adjustment ,etc....
Try to isolate and see if it is coming from the pump. If its from the pump, the pump has at some time run dry. I dont know of any repair other than pump replacement. Sorry I cant give you any better news. I would have a tech look at it before you do anything.GFM
Hello. I have a 25 yr old Ultimate? Oil Furnace w/ Honeywell R8182H Controller (H/L/Diff settings), Suntec A2VA-3006 pump w/ one line in, Beckett Burner (model AFG). Had the furnace serviced last year when we bought the house. Furnace ran fine for about a year. The furnace provides hot water baseboard heat and domestic hot water. He is the current issue - The furnace will start normally when there is a call for heat or domestic hot water. The furnace runs normal for a few minutes. Then the burner will go out, but the blower keeps going. It will re-ignite and sometimes go right back out and then do it all over again. No specific pattern ans sometimes it won;t do it all. The furnace does stop when it reaches temp. Note - the actions do not trip the lockout and actually the furnace will run again on the next call for heat, etc. I hear no strange or odd sounds while the furnace is running and at start up there are no odd rumbling sounds. We also keep the tank from running out of oil. also of interest is that this condition seems to occur a minute or to before the water temp setting is reached. Does this sound like a pump issue? Clogged oil line, etc. Thanks for any insight. I have learned a great deal watching your videos but could not find one with the similar situation I am having.
+grayfurnaceman - Thank you very much for the prompt reply. I found the replacement pump screen that includes the gasket for my Suntec A2VA-3006. (It only costs $4.99 and free shipping) Is there any recommended torq settings when I remove and reinstall the bolts. I'll try that before I call out the Service Tech. I replace the oil filter every year and just did that and bleed it until I had a nice clear stream. Just trying to keep this furnace running smoothly until we get a brand new one in the Spring of this year. I'll let you know the results. Your videos are great, even for novices and all homeowners should had a fundamental understanding of how their major systems work. Thanks.
+grayfurnaceman - UPDATE (SOLUTION) - many thanks. I easily replaced the Suntec pump screen and replaced the gasket (it was pretty gunked up) as well as changing the main oil filter and corresponding bolt and bleeder gaskets that came with the replacement oil filter. Re-bled the line. The it took awhile to re-bled the line since I have an underground oil tank and about 25 ft of line. The furnace re-fired easily, but again after 3 mins it started to flame out and re-ignite randomly. That left me with the line blockage scenario. I spoke w/ my local serviceman and he explained to me that more than likely I was getting cavitation in the pump due to the high vacuum my pump needs to draw in the fuel (13" vac). He explained I could try to blow out the lines with my compressor. He recommened no more than 30 PSI. He was walking me through it on the phone as I did it. As first it seems liked there was some resistance and then it seemed to not be there (I did that for approx 1.5 mins). Hooked back up everything and re-bled the line. This time, it bleed almost immediately. I left it run until a got a pretty powerful clear stream. That did the trick, the furnace has never run better. It cycles on 1/2 of much as it used to (no joking). Unreal. It the spring, we are getting a new oil furnace and Roth oil tank. Having the 550 gallon underground tanked removed. Already tested soil samples and no evidence of leaking. I just had to keep this 25+ year old furnace (Ultimate?) going until spring. Alsmot hate replace it now, but it is time. Love to her your advice and brands. Thanks again as the problem was atleast one of or a combination of what you had suspected.
SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME. I have the exact same pump and it makes a sucking sound when the motor stops. It sounds like a person sucking through a straw when the cup is empty and they're trying to get the last bit of soda. The reason i ask is i'm having a problem keeping my furnace running for more than 12 hours of on and off use and the pump makes this noise whether i just primed the fuel line or after hours of use. The fuel line comes out of the top of the tank to a check valve (that is new) and it runs to the ceiling,along the wall for 20 feet then drops down directly above the furnace to a thermal shut off valve(also new). I also resealed every fitting from the tank to the pump with the proper sealant for #2 fuel. I even got rid of the old wool filter and got a new Ger-ber spin on to eliminate that as being a source of a leak. Also resealed the oil pump gasket with silicone until i get a new gasket. I also tested the fuel line to the oil pump by using a brake bleeder and sucking the fuel from the tank to the fitting that goes into the oil pump cover to check for air bubbles. I just got solid fuel after getting all the air out. After a while i decided to disconnect the fuel line before the thermal shut off valve and hook up a line directly to a 5 gallon jug of diesel. The furnace ran through the 5 gallons w/o a problem. What am i missing? ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY,GREATLY APPRECIATED FROM ANYONE READING THIS. Thank You
First off, thank you for replying to me.Everyones time is valuable.No, no sings of the pump shaft seal leaking if thats what you're referring to. I unbolted the metal band next the oil pump, maneuvered it so i could access the space where the shaft comes out of the back of the pump and completely cleaned inside to watch for leaks and haven't seen any sign of one. Thats what i don't get. There isn't any signs of oil leaks anywhere. I have a vacuum/pressure gauge on the way so i can see exactly what i getting out of the pump because this is got me stumped. I am a Harley Davidson Tech. by trade w/ 13 yrs. experience & this is making me feel like a moron. I thought this was going to be a backflow issue. Replace the check valve above the tank and be done & this is what happens. :-(
It sounds more like fuel is leaking out the nozzel when burnner is off-this can and does happen when the pump gears are worn or the soleniod valve is leaking if it has one-has been the start of a few house fires.like the man says,get it checked by a professional.
1-why didn’t you open up the pump. 2-Water didn’t seize the pump rust did. If it was water mixed it would have tripped the primary. It sat and rusted..if your going to teach, teach!
On the Money in simply explaining cause, result and repair/replacement. I wish we had more TEACHERS LIKE YOU in Vocational Schools. BRAVO.
Thanks for the support.
GFM
Great stuff, you are very thorough and realistic. Thank uuu!
Thank you for sharing this example of the causes and effects of mechanics, you're an example to do it yourselfers everywhere! :)
Have you replaced the nozzle? Have you checked the filter at the tank? Hope this helps.
GFM
I disconnected the fuel line to the burner & ran the pump until I could fill a bottle of clear fuel. I changed the fuel filter & nozzle. Disassembled the blower & opened the pump & cleaned out the sludge. I never cleaned out the pump before & do not know if any of the tecs I had in for service over the years did so.
The pump I have is a single stage 3450 rpm Western.
Boiler ran the best ever. Only for 2 days. Now it struggles to stay running as if out of fuel. I have a follow up. PG2
grayfurnaceman thank you for your reply.
I will check the fittings again but there were not any gaskets around
the edge when I opened the pump up. There was something that could be a
gasket that did not touch the edges. It is behind the round piece that
houses the gears in the pump. I could not get it off & did not want to
destroy it I did not have a replacement. It looked like it may be a filter
of some sort. Do you have any idea as to what it is?
It should be a screen. If you hear any pump noise during operation, there is air in the line. You can also hook a hose to the bleed fitting (lower right on the video) and run it into a can to see if air comes out while bleeding. That should tell you if there is a air leak. If the burner starts and stops while running that could be air or blockage. I would try silicone seal for a gasket.
GFM
PG2. I had it off for the day.I was about to take it apart but started it again & it ran perfect for 2days.
This pump did not have a screen or filter. I am not sure if someone pulled it out or not.
Any suggestions as to my next step? I now have the boiler off.
Thank you
I have an old sundstrand pump that spits oil out right bye the shaft but still pumps oil is the pump just shot?
Hi, do you have a link to the video of you taking the pump apart? thanks.
That's from air in the gun line and no solenoid. Sometimes after running for a while the air will absorb into the oil and it mostly stops. There are some gun assemblies are designed to bleed air through but it does not always work. Any way its normal. Hope this helps.
GFM
Any idea what causes these pumps to want to only build pressure up to a certain point then suddenly drop back to near zero when turned up past that point, but then repressurize when the pressure screw is turned back down?
They all were able to pull a high vacuum ( ~20 - 25 inches) on the inlet and hold it indefinitely, so it wasn't due to air leaks. And the pressure regulator/shutoff spools were perfect and worked well when tested in good working pumps as well.
I've come across that problem in a number of pumps even when brand new now in both the old mechanical startup bypass design and the newer solenoid controlled 'Clean cut" types.
You have probably turned it down past its maximum.
GFM
I am reposting this,,
My Burhnam hot water boiler,, resonates a high pitch noise,, very loud when positioned between the furnace and oil tank which are in different rooms..new filter ,, oil line..
seem to be resonating thru the oil line,, thanks for any info
I thank you very much for your videos, they are very informative!! I am an appliance service tech but like to learn about all things mechanical. Here's a ? for you. What would make a Beckett burner keep piddling fuel out the nozzle after its turned off? Not a drip mind you, but a thin stream. Pressure seemed to be caused by gravity, outside tank level about 7' above furnace. Is there a valve in the pump that can stick? Old sundstrand pump, no solenoid, scared the crap out of me! (Replacing it!)
My thought is that you have an air leak. If the oil tank is below the burner, with a 2 pipe system, air leaks are common without an oil slick. Also the oil filter may be getting plugged. Check out the oil filter vid.
GFM
There is a possibility that you have a vacuum leak. On the inlet side of the pump either in the gaskets or the fittings it could be leaking air into the pump. Check that out.
Read these backwards. So I will answer this last. The filter is absolutely necessary! Very rapid pulses are normal. If the pulses are not even, you could have a blockage or a vacuum leak in the line. Hope this helps.
GFM
I know this sounds like a strange question, but can you please tell me exactly what the material is you have under the pump? I've been looking for that type of material for some time now. If you can tell where you purchased or what it is I would appreciate it. Or if you want to sell me any (clean) maybe we can do that?
Man, i love the video's. Wonder if you could answer something for me, i got a oil furnace that i have to prime to start. it will run for a couple of days then, i got to run back over there prime it and reset it. i dont see no signs of leaks, this pump system has a two line system, or supply/return style setup. any suggestions would really help me out. Thanks and again the videos are a great tool.
crob227 What happened to be the issue with yours? I have the same thing going on, had a plumber change filter and new pump & we had hot water for a day and then same thing again. Got me for $550 for that nice job he did too
i have 5 year old riello burner fuel getting past fuel filter unit turns on keeps trying to fire up but just does not lite up after a while of trying a lot of smoke what do i do screen in pump is spotless
Its the bottom panel from a screen door. May be able to find it hardware store.
GFM
Hi how do I know if a loud vibrating noise is my oil pump of motor bearing?
Thanks I really enjoy your videos.
I took a video but I cannot figure out how to post it yet!
You can send to Grayfurnaceman@gmail.com
GFM
bench test your blower motor if it's not the blower than you can address the fuel pump or fan wheel, our pump coupling etc.
How do you know if it’s locked up?
If you disconnect the pump from the burner assembly, you can check its rotation.
GFM
what stops the oil flowing in the oil pump when the burner is off? is it the spring?...
If there is line solenoid, the closing of the solenoid stops it. If no solenoid, the pump gears will stop it.
GFM
grayfurnaceman...thank you for that answer, appreciate it...
The blower spins the fuel pump, The burner controller would control the fuel pump solenoid if there is one.
CAN I USE THE WHITE PURE SILICON FOR SEALING WINDOWS WOULD IT SEALTHE BACK OF THE OIL PUMP PLATE GOOD FOR 300 DEGREES F ? OLDER WAYNE BURNER KEROSENE
No that type of silicone will not be oil proof. You are better off cutting out a new gasket from automotive gasket paper or using Ultra Black RTV silicone that's made to resist oil.
destruxxx thats a good point thanks
Why do this? Strainers come with a new gasket.
thanks guys I see a new gasket might be the best way to go
Rondo Schiavoni Always use a new gasket. For two reasons: 1)The old gasket will get brittle and stick to both the pump cover as well as the pump body. 2) Replacing the strainer without using a new gasket invites the issues of reason#1 and a leak. Trust me: You don't want a leak. Not even a small weep.
While i'm passing out free advice, let me add this: torque the bolts in stages like you were putting a wheel on your car. That cove is pretty thick,but you can still "tweak" it. And it will weep. Tight is good, over tight is not. The bolt at the lower left corner is particularly susceptible to stripping out. Don't be a gorilla. Be a tech.
Do yourself a favor! Install an semi truck diesel fuel filter with a water separator petcock. I drain mine every week and it prevents any water from going in the pump. You'd be amazed at the water it will catch!
You should not have to check for water every week. If you getting water, check and clean the tank. Water should collect in the tank because the pickup tubes should not pull from the very bottom.
try using flexible oil line the harmonic will stop
I have a question the oil pump shaft should it turn easy or on the stiff side but still turns I think it’s the pump I bleed it I get a clear flow but every like 5 second i get spitting but still get a clear flow when it goes to lock out it makes a grinding noise it turns off and the motor and pump come to a stop thanks
The shaft should have some resistance. It sounds like you either are out of oil, have a plugged oil filter or a vacuum leak on the suction line.
GFM
Thank you for your help I compared a new pump to the old pump the old one had a little binding new one had resistance like you said but it was smooth also replaced the motor was making a grinding noise also added a new coupler just in case I started and it ran but with a misfire noise so I called my oil company service I told the guy what I did when he got home and it was the pump pressure it was low from factory is 100 lbs and the original was 140 so he set it to 140 and it runs like a kitten thanks for your help
Probably a partially plugged nozzle. At this point you may have a plugged smoke pipe and heat exchanger. When the oil is not atomized, it burns with a smoky fire. This one needs a thorough service. May want a professional for this.
GFM
I have a hydro tek the burner fan not working putit turns on when u pass the s solenoid
I checked pressure, and it's good and also holds with pump off. But no spay from new nozzle.
Acting like clogged but it pumps oil out of the end of the nozzle tube. Just no spray. ???
+Steve Cunningham New nozzles sometimes plug right away. Try replacing it.
GFM
ok thanks, I'll try again. I replaced it 2 times already. And keep retesting pressure to see if it has pressure and if it's holding on shutoff. All seems good just no spray only a drip drip drip at the nozzle. I can take nozzle off and it pumps oil out. I can only guess nozzle still getting clogged somehow ? What do you think dirty oil or something ? Thanks for the replies
I took the nozzle off and let it run. The oil is coming out but it's not smooth continuously. It does flow mostly smooth but it's also surging. It makes a winding noise like a power steering pump going bad. Also I took the pump out and some sweating or oil at the shaft seal.
I should mention the pump is 20 years old.
Would you suspect pump going bad and just replace or can the pump be repaired with repair kit or something ?
Please advise
Thanks
+Steve Cunningham Could be dirty oil. You might want to flush the system thoroughly.
GFM
Ok, I actually took apart the new nozzle and cleaned it, took off the sinter filter and brass screw pin with distributor tip.
washed all out with WD40 then installed without sinter filter and screw pin just to see if any stream at all would come out. It sort of peas out as expected. Then I put back in with screw pin and distributor but without sinter filter and I get a spray.
However, I'm not sure I'm liking the spray pattern. It's a B nozzle and does have a B pattern but more of a pea pattern in the center and coned spray on the outer edges looks ok. and also after shutting down the pump it spray and sprays for a while ?
If this sprays for like 30 seconds inside the pump after shutdown all the time that would make a huge mess.
Sounds like I have pump issues of various types not just nozzle issues.
How much pressure should remain in the nozzle tube from the pump to the nozzle tip after shutdown ? Any at all ? Or should it just bleed to nothing very quickly if there were any issue with pump valve shufoff ?
Sorry for multi questions just a strange furnace doing strange things IMO.
Help! Have a customer with a Roth type tank, 2 pipe install. They have maintenance every year or two. Two weeks ago, motor failed, motor replaced (not by me). Came in again a week later, I went there, found the pump lucked up. Replaced with a clean cut pump. Did a tune up before that. No dirt in pump, strainer fairly clean. Fed with a General filter with a #15 filter element.
New pump locked up today. Carefully disassembled cap, shaft facing up. Oil nice and red, clear, no signs of water. Once I rock the shaft free using the blower wheel, it will run perfectly. Amperage is 5-6 amps on start, 1.2 amps on run.
Any idea as to why this brand new pump would lock up like the old pump? I'm stumped at this point.
Is the new motor a centrifugal start motor? It sounds like it from the amp draw. But some of the newer motors are PSC and do not have as much starting torque. Hope this helps. Let me know what you find.
GFM
Present motor is a constant cap type. The problem is not the motor. The problem is the pump locking up after about a week. No water, no dirt in old or new pump. Tank is a vertical type with top draw. Pump is configured with a return line. Once the pump shaft is rocked free it runs ok until the next time. I give amp draw of motor to illustrate that there is no unusual drag ( no cavitation, etc.).
I don't have any answers here. The pump fails to start for 3 reasons. Internal resistance (contaminants in the oil), regulator failure(regulator never bypasses), or inadequate torque from the motor.
GFM
grayfurnaceman I agree. I suspect a laxk if lubricity in the oil or dirt. The Roth type tank is a top draw, particulates have a hard time climbing the dip tube, at least on a single pipe system.
I dropped the cap off the pump, shaft side up, to ensure whatever contaminates there are still there when i examine it. No dice. Pristine.
The pump is tight to the touch with motor removed. definitely not the motor. A real "head scratcher" for sure. Can't blame you for not knowing. As my old boss would say, "If it were easy, everybody would be doing it."
Let me know if you find the problem.
GFM
I had alot of air in the line-is that a sign of a failing pump? (tank did not run out)
gmoneyga84 Pump is fine. Look for vacuum leaks or plugged inlet line.
GFM
grayfurnaceman can I install a permanent guage on those pumps?
On the suntec pump-on the label- 1 plug is marked for "gauge"
Why cant I put a gauge in the gauge port on top?
I wanted to see what was jammed in the gear you didnt take it apart
tbirdpimp07 rust
I have an oil pup. not pumping oil throught it. checked for blockage, ,all clear, changed filters, I have oil in the lines up the pump but it is not pumping , I checked the screen, it is clear. motor is turning , pump is turning but not pumping oil. any help would be appreciated.
+William Mack I also have a filter at the pump and it is not drawing any fuel into the filter.
+William Mack This one looks like a pump failure.
GFM
+grayfurnaceman thank you for replying. one last question. when I replace it will it ready to run or will I have to make any adjustments to the new pump. like vacuum adjustment ,etc....
+William Mack It should work out of the box as long as oil is available. Just has to be bled.
GFM
+grayfurnaceman thank you again sir, your videos are very helpful. and as I can see from comments, much appreciated.
Try to isolate and see if it is coming from the pump. If its from the pump, the pump has at some time run dry. I dont know of any repair other than pump replacement. Sorry I cant give you any better news. I would have a tech look at it before you do anything.GFM
Hello. I have a 25 yr old Ultimate? Oil Furnace w/ Honeywell R8182H Controller (H/L/Diff settings), Suntec A2VA-3006 pump w/ one line in, Beckett Burner (model AFG). Had the furnace serviced last year when we bought the house. Furnace ran fine for about a year. The furnace provides hot water baseboard heat and domestic hot water. He is the current issue - The furnace will start normally when there is a call for heat or domestic hot water. The furnace runs normal for a few minutes. Then the burner will go out, but the blower keeps going. It will re-ignite and sometimes go right back out and then do it all over again. No specific pattern ans sometimes it won;t do it all. The furnace does stop when it reaches temp. Note - the actions do not trip the lockout and actually the furnace will run again on the next call for heat, etc. I hear no strange or odd sounds while the furnace is running and at start up there are no odd rumbling sounds. We also keep the tank from running out of oil. also of interest is that this condition seems to occur a minute or to before the water temp setting is reached. Does this sound like a pump issue? Clogged oil line, etc. Thanks for any insight. I have learned a great deal watching your videos but could not find one with the similar situation I am having.
+Thomas Hatch This sounds like clogged oil line oil pump screen or filter. Hope this helps.
GFM
+grayfurnaceman - Thank you very much for the prompt reply. I found the replacement pump screen that includes the gasket for my Suntec A2VA-3006. (It only costs $4.99 and free shipping) Is there any recommended torq settings when I remove and reinstall the bolts. I'll try that before I call out the Service Tech. I replace the oil filter every year and just did that and bleed it until I had a nice clear stream. Just trying to keep this furnace running smoothly until we get a brand new one in the Spring of this year. I'll let you know the results. Your videos are great, even for novices and all homeowners should had a fundamental understanding of how their major systems work. Thanks.
+Thomas Hatch I can't give torque specs. Just make the them reasonably tight.
GFM
+grayfurnaceman - UPDATE (SOLUTION) - many thanks. I easily replaced the Suntec pump screen and replaced the gasket (it was pretty gunked up) as well as changing the main oil filter and corresponding bolt and bleeder gaskets that came with the replacement oil filter. Re-bled the line. The it took awhile to re-bled the line since I have an underground oil tank and about 25 ft of line. The furnace re-fired easily, but again after 3 mins it started to flame out and re-ignite randomly. That left me with the line blockage scenario. I spoke w/ my local serviceman and he explained to me that more than likely I was getting cavitation in the pump due to the high vacuum my pump needs to draw in the fuel (13" vac). He explained I could try to blow out the lines with my compressor. He recommened no more than 30 PSI. He was walking me through it on the phone as I did it. As first it seems liked there was some resistance and then it seemed to not be there (I did that for approx 1.5 mins). Hooked back up everything and re-bled the line. This time, it bleed almost immediately. I left it run until a got a pretty powerful clear stream. That did the trick, the furnace has never run better. It cycles on 1/2 of much as it used to (no joking). Unreal. It the spring, we are getting a new oil furnace and Roth oil tank. Having the 550 gallon underground tanked removed. Already tested soil samples and no evidence of leaking. I just had to keep this 25+ year old furnace (Ultimate?) going until spring. Alsmot hate replace it now, but it is time. Love to her your advice and brands. Thanks again as the problem was atleast one of or a combination of what you had suspected.
WHAT IF MY PUMP DIDN'T HAVE A SCREEN IN IT? PUT IN ONE OR NOT
How does all that junk get past the oil filter?
Who knows, but it does.
GFM
SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME. I have the exact same pump and it makes a sucking sound when the motor stops. It sounds like a person sucking through a straw when the cup is empty and they're trying to get the last bit of soda. The reason i ask is i'm having a problem keeping my furnace running for more than 12 hours of on and off use and the pump makes this noise whether i just primed the fuel line or after hours of use. The fuel line comes out of the top of the tank to a check valve (that is new) and it runs to the ceiling,along the wall for 20 feet then drops down directly above the furnace to a thermal shut off valve(also new). I also resealed every fitting from the tank to the pump with the proper sealant for #2 fuel. I even got rid of the old wool filter and got a new Ger-ber spin on to eliminate that as being a source of a leak. Also resealed the oil pump gasket with silicone until i get a new gasket. I also tested the fuel line to the oil pump by using a brake bleeder and sucking the fuel from the tank to the fitting that goes into the oil pump cover to check for air bubbles. I just got solid fuel after getting all the air out. After a while i decided to disconnect the fuel line before the thermal shut off valve and hook up a line directly to a 5 gallon jug of diesel. The furnace ran through the 5 gallons w/o a problem. What am i missing? ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY,GREATLY APPRECIATED FROM ANYONE READING THIS. Thank You
mikeelp23 I am thinking a pump problem. Is there any oil in the bottom of the burner housing? That could mean a failed seal. Hope this helps.
GFM
First off, thank you for replying to me.Everyones time is valuable.No, no sings of the pump shaft seal leaking if thats what you're referring to. I unbolted the metal band next the oil pump, maneuvered it so i could access the space where the shaft comes out of the back of the pump and completely cleaned inside to watch for leaks and haven't seen any sign of one. Thats what i don't get. There isn't any signs of oil leaks anywhere. I have a vacuum/pressure gauge on the way so i can see exactly what i getting out of the pump because this is got me stumped. I am a Harley Davidson Tech. by trade w/ 13 yrs. experience & this is making me feel like a moron. I thought this was going to be a backflow issue. Replace the check valve above the tank and be done & this is what happens. :-(
I previously stated that my pump was Western. It is a Webster 728N. Sorry
thank you
Welcome
GFM
Replace the burner why you say that
You didn't pull the pressure valve , the most common problem we've had had been the regulator valve
install a OSV or a oil safety valve on the supply line to your pump
It sounds more like fuel is leaking out the nozzel when burnner is off-this can and does happen when the pump gears are worn or the soleniod valve is leaking if it has one-has been the start of a few house fires.like the man says,get it checked by a professional.
Sounds like you run out fuel quite often. More than likely you have a high vacume condition.
Oh your hands are so dirty that’s refreshing to see since most heater guys are premadonas who wear gloves
1-why didn’t you open up the pump.
2-Water didn’t seize the pump rust did. If it was water mixed it would have tripped the primary. It sat and rusted..if your going to teach, teach!
Thanks for the thoughts. I did disassemble the pump. Its in another video. I did not put in a link at the time. I have placed it now.
GFM
A very tactful response to a rude question.
Godi
my pump still looks brand new basically so why did mine stop working since you act like you know everything