'You Don't Like It-I Got It': Kavanaugh Has Tense Exchange With Lawyer In Affirmative Action Case
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- Опубліковано 30 жов 2022
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh asks questions during the oral arguments of Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. University of North Carolina.
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'You don't like it - I got it' is from Gorsuch, not Kavanaugh.
I was going to say the exact same thing.
Yes but the title has Kavs name this misleading
It's Forbes 'Breaking News', what do you expect? They admit they have broken news.
What's the difference? They're both slimy creeps!!
They know. Gorsuch doesn’t get clicks. Eye-roll
What happened to just being a good student to get into college
How dare you apply logic, reason and common sense into this purely emotional issue!! LOL
Why can't we lower professional baskets to 6 feet, so everyone can dunk?
@@jan_phd hahaha that's not an argument equal outcome is for commies works well in China don't it
@@brianevans1851 A lowered basket would not assure equal outcome, as the really good players would make higher scores. The game officials could also put hardened bags of concrete on courts and increase the sizes of the baskets and ball significantly. But height, automatically blocks nearly everyone.
@@jan_phd haha I know a person in the NBA that 5,9 he beats 7 ft players
You can’t end racism and discrimination by practicing racism and discrimination in a new form.
Exactly. "Is the university practicing racism?" "No--we just holistically exclude whites and Asians."
@@thumperjdm now I understand
Then how do you do it?
@@bethmcgill5944 Education. Teaching morals.. Breaking the cycle of racism starts at home. You can't teach love by teaching hate.
I don’t agree with affirmative action but to compare it to the things that lead to it being put in place is truly asinine.
Forbes, publish titles correctly. This one is inaccurate. Kavanaugh did not say "You don't like - I got it", it was another justice. Kavanaugh barely spoke here, and it wasn't terse. I/m not a Kavanaugh fan, but I am less a fan of misquoting.
Sounds like Gorsuch
Are you a liberal? Because im not a fan of them.
Agree, def not Kavanagh speaking 🤔
@@oldguitarguy7528 We're all voters, whether mis-educated narcisistic liberal savior's in their own mind or minimally educated conservatives who know with enough down to earth humility to not let their ego's control them and never underestimate the much greater value in a person who still allows themselves to listen from all sides and practice common sense reasoning with the necessary daily practice of embracing self-awareness, not just this growing obsession over status, wealth, or power, to never stop learning from mistakes, which hard left turning liberals today, have gotten in the habit of actually believing they can never be wrong, because they consider it an offense to be forced to listen to anyone who disagrees with them, their sensitive feelings and passion for feeling their useless degrees, without the experience in any field relatable, must be respected and gift them with the power to deny any facts that hurt those feelings, status, agenda, or lemming-like devotion to an ideology, whatever it really is cannot be assaulted with reality outside their preferred bubbles of greatness in their own minds, even it's it completely ignores, principles, various well proven traditions, rules, laws, or even morals, and more often than not with supreme bigotry and hate they claim to be saving so many groups they think are too inferior to achieve anything without their projected love which is not their goal in so many areas, it's only their ill-defined equity hustle because, huh, obviously equality is never enough, no matter if they already live in the most exceptionally diverse nation anywhere on this planet in it's entire history. Cultural trends come and go, but unfortunately prosperity does have to deal with insane agendas for more control, agendas to gain more profit, in wealth or power. Decisions in higher court, like Citizens United case, help open the doors to too many billionaires, millionaires and corporations to literally buy, intimidate, or infiltrate every branch of Government today. It's like a mass delusional drunkeness of greed for money and power as the technology and innovations like internet, media, universities, and especially social media are the tools being used to distract, divide, and cancel, buy out, or destroy all those who oppose these clueless authoritarian craving bigots pretending to know what's best for everyone, no matter how many will suffer to achieve their selfish goals. As if they have Godlike power and status to ignore whatever or whoever they feel hurts their shallow and narrow minded goals deludes so many of them and their materialistic obsessed followers and deviants that want divide families and religions that interfere with their attempts to dumb society down enough explore every level of degeneracy they can use without accountability. Just saying. The question of, are you a liberal is a loaded question, depending on whoever is asking, with completely diverse meanings or possibly intentions to judge, hate, deny, cancel, destroy, or never question, ever, regardless of any other knowledge about them that's easily obtainable or even hidden, like a good lemming cultist acolyte or master's habit or command. Just wait for the denial and delusional action that's so easy for even the lowliest human to see and recognize exactly for it's lack of any regard towards them. Bigoted cult trending that can hate anyone, of human nature, over a simple question that's not the right answer in their over liberalized far leftist brain, too self-blinded to see or admit their flaws and failures, they can't see how many of their kind are waking up. A pointless question to ask someone today with so many woke finally waking up, and with humility, know how badly redefined, the word, liberal, is today, nothing close to it's original ideals and honor for the necessary balance only a fool could deny, as essential. The true liberal will side with conservatives to clean up their party, invaded by clueless, obsessed for change in the worst direction, history has repeated over and over with failure of epic proportions in human history, but hey when you never reach puberty, even as an adult, being a rebellious idiot never gets old.
@@slingeroftruth i make 100k a year Einstein, i only have a highschool diploma, but im far from undereducated you half a queer lol.
Imagine arguing in favor of racial discrimination in 2022.
It’s a major part of being a democrat in modern America.
That's where we are now, in 2022. Justice O'Conner commented on this years ago: "Reverse discrimination is still discrimination."
Affirmative Action is racial discrimination.
It has nothing to do with racial discrimination. Do you realize that white people has a better economics floor than their counterparts? White people has competitive advantage in academics or business and etc. I will say this unequivocally black or Hispanic do not have competitive advantage as its stand today. Be damn if you have black soundings name be damn if you have Hispanic soundings name. If I need to remind you, it was white people who told black people they can’t own a land in America, can’t get loan, and etc which in turns caused black or Hispanic people to fall behind in economic growth so instead of keeping fights for their rights we have black people resort to violence and white people are complaining about it. Like what do you expect? While I don’t like affirmative action but I can see how it’s beneficial to put things in perspective but I can see how it's negatively affects certain people who has nothing to do with the horrible treatments that happened 200 years old.
@@The_North0 if it had NOTHING to do with it, then why are you bringing up white,black,latino people? Yep you guys are fucked in the head.
It’s going down in flames. The defense got beat like a rented mule. Their woke logic, as usual, cannot stand the test of reasonable debate.
"Woke Logic" ; oxymoron of the year!!!!!🤣😝😂😭
Unless it’s on MSNBC or The View. Where liberals will bend over backwards
You forgot the x factor: Roberts the Compromised
Exactly right on
yet democrats defend their proven racist "quotas", "preferences", "goals", "set asides" to the end just as they defended slavery and racist jim crow or their racist idol fdr rounding up asians and forcing to concentration camps and stealing the victims property as democrats steal to this day and just as democrats deny more qualified asians from college admission to keep their racist democrat quotas intact
It's insane how hard Harvard is fighting for discrimination.
This is UNC not Harvard
I don't know why I've never heard even tidbits of arguments before the Supreme Court before, but I find it refreshing to get this glimpse into these monumental proceedings.
Lol it's Kabuki theater for the masses, just so the masses feel they are keeping these "justices" "accountable"
called transparency, unlike the Biden administration.
agreed ... so good to hear these sessions.
You didn’t know that the oral arguments are recorded in audio since like the 80s?
Affirmative Action??? You going to call the NBA and tell them to put more Asians and Philippians on their teams???????
~Doh
First of all we are Americans
@@brianevans1851, but some Americans always must self segregate themselves by ancestry and skin color. They can't just be Americans, and STFU.
@@SIC-SEMPER-TYRANNIS why do you suppose they do that Mr separatist so STFU
Asian and Philippians? Are you talking about Asians and Greeks?
@@MrPhg2009 could be from Eskimos and Aussies for all I care, if they are American Citizens, American Should be the only title necessary.....BUT NO, some must skin color self segregate.
MERIT SHOULD BE THE CONSIDERATION.
Affirmative action was meant for descendants of slaves who were denied an education, not for immigrants who became citizens.
He’s a joke
Right, so my Alma Mater, Harvard, should not longer give HUGE preference to alumnae kids and rich donor kids (probably some 40% of their new freshmen). You are living in naive dreamland.
What or who determine merits
@Longinus the gpa’s are the same
Diversity of thought not diversity of skin color!
It’s plain outright discrimination
Yep and we’re tired of it
Awww, poor little whites boy!!!
@@Dan-sc7us not anymore lol….it’s goin away…I’d like to welcome the purple gum folk to our new meritocracy. Good luck
@@Dan-sc7us racist
@@Dan-sc7us Self-hater.
They claim that they don't use it for admissions, yet they are not ok with getting rid of it. Curious approach
What was that MLK quote??? Judge a man by the content of their character, not the color of their skin?????
The Democrats hate that quote, and had MLK shot... to remove his influence.
@J Bar Who is 'they'? What is 'nonsense'?
@J Bar many do believe in that, but the Afro-Marxists don't.
Looks like you haven't seen how Blacks are hurting White people. Wake up
They liked that until they realized that when a Leftist's character is judged it's invariably found wanting.
Forbes, you blew it on this title.
I have no desire for anyone to go to Harvard to be a lawyer if this is the kind of lawyer they produce !
I agree. Harvard today, is not the Harvard of the past.
should not be a box on an application asking what race or gender you are.
Most do not know their gender and they / them are the group that are wanting the boxes on the forms so they can be recognized. They are the Oxy-moron in the story...
To get a job with the federal Government, I lied! It was up to them to prove I was not Black and to ask me otherwise would be a violation of my civil rights.
@@RealJeepI am glad you have that right
Guess who's checking all the boxes next time.
@@barbarataylor8101 Exactly, See how easy we can end the talk and accusations of racism! Just simply apply yourself and go for what you want!
It was Gorsuch saying what was referenced in the headline, Kavanaugh came later.
Yep, what I was about to say. #ForbesFail
I agree, Bonnie. They misquoted.
Ya hear one Mullah ya herd them all.
Kavanaugh chimes in halfway through
They're both slimy creeps, so what's the difference??
This is rampant racism. These people are so woke , they don’t realize how racist this is. Maybe they should re-listen to MLKs famous words. People should be judged on the content of their character, not the color of their skin. That means you make on your merit, not to make a quota!!!
One doesn’t need to be ‘woke’ to see the same sort of problems that currently base admission on race, to be changed to ‘merit’.
Obviously, race- or national origin- or (insert man-made classification here)-based decisions - whether they be to college, to hiring, to home ownership, etc… - are racist by default.
Turning that right around and saying it should solely be based merit is to ALSO USE a man-made metric to define acceptance criteria.
The issue is more nuanced than how it is presented.
MLK’s famous one-liner sounds excellent. But who defines acceptable ‘content of character’? The majority? The minority? To use an extreme or two - what is acceptable character content for someone from Egypt or Libya might not be acceptable character content to someone from Brooklyn. Or someone who wholly subscribes to fundamentalist Mormonism might not have acceptable character content to a practicing Baptist from Alabama.
Your statement is premised on a platitude that sounds excellent, but is based on a merit-based system that not everyone agrees with nor can even be defined fully - unless you subscribe, like MLK did, to a western, Judeo-Christian, individualistic-premised merit system.
Now, personally, I have no problem with that premise, and would think it is the one that should be used. But, the people running these admissions schemes are a Loooooong way from that premise. Getting them to agree to use that would be, in their view, patriarchially racist. Which means that, what we are back to is wanting to FORCE a viewpoint via SCOTUS - which is exactly what the right has hated about the left for at least 50 years…
In other words, stop making ‘more laws’ the answer to the problem. It never is. Get the US Govt. out of education. ALL of education
You put a man in chain for 400 years and then asking him to come to starting line for a race. Anyhow American Education System makes you dumb. There is nothing to learn except liberal vs conservative no common senses.
They realize. They don't care. They want to seize benefits for themselves by any means necessary and they'll say whatever they need to to achieve it. It's really that simple. Oh you are vulnerable to sympathetic arguments? I'll use sympathy. You like merit? I'll use merit. You like favorability? I'll use favorability. Tell people what they want to hear to get their way. The only principle is self interest.
Today's youth consider MLK to be an uncle Tom house n!66a, because his logical approach to being a functional adult human being goes against their victim-based narrative.
If he were alive today making speeches, he'd be spat upon by purple & green haired blm/antifa fruitcakes, like Herschel Walker is right now in his 2022 Georgia gubernatorial campaign.
It's a travesty what Herschel is enduring right now from the left. Inexcusable from any angle!
@Reflection - - as usual, when someone disagrees, it’s because reading comprehension isn’t engaged. Either you are being willfully obtuse, or ignorant.
So, let me try again - The Issue” isn’t whether the approach Harvard and UNC are taking is or isn’t racist - it completely IS racist (as I said in both my opening and closing remarks…).
“The Issue” is using a platitude spoken by an avowed communist and serial womanizer under the guise of ‘Christianity’ as the end-all, be-all of how to solve racism. ‘Content of character’ was such a hard-hitting platitude precisely because it spoke then, and speaks now, to a very specific majority in the United States. But it fails when you attempt to use ‘content of character’ as the rule when dealing with minority groups who culturally believe, for example, that mysoginistic machismo is a positive character trait. Or, for example, that cultural animus against Jews is a positive character trait. Or, that polygamous marriage is positive character content. The list could go on - which is EXACTLY the trap that is ‘The Issue’.
This is ‘the issue’ that the largely Lefist dons that run higher education want to implement. For, to them, applying obvious race-based criteria to their system is exactly what they want - and, as the arguments before the SCOTUS have shown, are being implemented precisely under the trap of ‘character content’ arguments. They aren’t overtly institutionalizing race-based hiring or admissions - they know this is a failing tact - but instead are attempting to institutionalize ‘merit’-based admissions, where ‘merit’ means confronting supposed patriarchal- and religious- and race-based hurdles in life. Where ‘merit’ means anything OTHER than (WASP) white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant character content. In other words, ‘merit’ is being attempted to being redefined to fit the narrative that the Left is pushing. Which is why the Lefist dons are smiling gleefully any time the ‘Content of Character’ argument is used - they are attempting (rather slyly but successfully…) to change the definition of ‘merit’ to mean something else.
But, most of the so-called right is falling right into this trap. Alito and Thomas aren’t. ACB and Kavanaugh and Gorsuch might be. And Robert’s most definitely IS. And, you, probably are as well. Because, honestly, the leftist dons are smarter than you and play you like a dime-store fiddle…
A company I worked for had preferential hiring for women in executive positions. We had a discussion about diversity at a meeting and she was upset that she may have been hired because she was a woman and not because of her qualifications. I hope this court gets rid of Affirmative Action. It is discriminatory. Plain and simple.
I thought they got rid of affirmative action years ago. Knowing they did not proves how Harris got a law degree because she is definitely not intelligent.
Maybe, just maybe, the woman was upset because the meeting intimated that she had only been hired because of her gender, belittling her qualifications and performance. Workplace politics are often deliberately unkind. Maybe the meeting was disrespecting her and she wouldn't roll over.
How many men get hired for reasons other than their qualifications?
@@bethmcgill5944 Hunter Biden.
I used to work for General Motors and there were no bones about it, in each area there had to be diversity in sex and race. A woman joined my highly technical group and she was under no illusion that she was there for her technical qualifications, she knew it was basically because she was a woman. Unlike your boss, it didn't bother her a bit, just so long as she had that job at General Motors. I believe it's the same in most gummint agencies.
Face it.. They pick people based on Race and gender. Knowing 70% can not finish the degree in 4 years. So they want 6 years now.. That means more income for the University. While the student carries more debt for the rest of their life.....Has nothing too do with merit based academics.
@@RedCornTx I tossed that yoke off years ago.. As I'm an American...Good luck telling what Race, Religion, Ethnic Back Ground I am when faced with that statement.
That is their intended goal. To bring down America to the European Class Society..Where no matter what. You will always remain a lower Class Citizen..That i show Activist get their hands in your pockets. Their like a parasite. They move in. Take over. Gets as much as they can before they kill it. Then move looking for new host to support them...
Really?? So that's why there are 8 women graduating for every 2 men!! Stay with the dogs!
@@Dan-sc7us Well Short Bus Rider..Women out number Men in Collage enrollment. ..
And even then. That degree in Gender Studies is nothing in the real world. Why Companies now require a masters to even get an interview today. They passed out the BA degree like they were candy.. Now called Diploma Mills. You need a STEM Degree just to break even..Why Women fall way short on all but Biology.
Now go punch your Teacher sin the Stomach. Then ask the schools for a refund. They failed to educated you.
Grades and test scores should be the only things considered
Why is that? Who made that rule?
@@YT_handles_r_stupid what is racist about test scores and grades??
@@YT_handles_r_stupid I can't tell if you're being serious lol
A society should push the most advanced people to the most advanced fields they are willing to study.
A nation promoting the most advanced people using any other criteria is counter active. For example most advanced within a localized region, within a population of an ethnicity, within an age, anything else is detrimental to the development of the society. There are a limited number of seats, use them in the best way possible.
But, but Squash!
As a migrant who became a US Citizen, served in the US Navy and NEVER used or took advantage of any affirmative action programs, I can confidently state that college admissions should be based on the demonstrated academic understandings and capabilities of the respective applicant. I earned my credentials through hard work and study and not because of my race or country of origin! I don't care if one is black, white, blue, green, Asian, Hispanic, Martian or from Alfa Centauri! Did they earn the admission by achieving the grades?
Right on!
How do you know that your ethnicity was never taken into consideration? It's not like there is an affirmative action box to check. Not questioning your hard work, but you would never know whether affirmative action came into play or not. It's one of the main reasons Justice Thomas speaks so strongly against affirmative action.
@@bvw3153 The law should make it illegal to consider race and quotas be either against the law altogether.
But if there are going to be quotas, it should be enforced 1:1 with respect to demographic make up. I.e. roughly 60% white, 24% hispanic/mixed, 15% black and 1-2% jewish. At least this was you know you were the best of your race, and you didn't get in simply because you were non-white. No more of this 60% poc and 40% ashkenazi bullshit they are creating!!
@@bvw3153 How do they know blacks are not chosen because of race?
@@bvw3153 college applications ask for one’s race… the OP may have selected Other or some other generic answer. I typically try to avoid those answers and I know many other people that also do because they want to know they earned something and it wasn’t handed to them.
Merit
Forcing diversity /= achieving diversity
Diversity at the university level has to start at the elementary level. Democrats fervently oppose charter schools and voucher systems that allow the socio-economically 'challenged' kids to go to better performing schools. Let's start there...
Unions in schools and teachers that pass students below the minimum passing grade which use to be 60 is now in the 20's for the D-
Abolish all race and gender quotas. Stop the communism.
Putting people in power that shouldn't be there. It's destroying the country.
That is the thing they do not want failing minorities to get wholesale success. If the minorities all became successful and all got into the best universities and all gained power and wealth....why would they vote democrat to give it all back? So what happens is these groups get a few here and there bumped up to the best schools and the rest stay in poverty, crime and live in awful areas and the democrats can say.....see? this country is racist because you cannot get far, ignoring the fact that they are the ones keeping them down. evil. I believe everyone should be able to have the same opportunity.
Im Comanche and the liberal forcing has made me hate certain race as I never was before .
Close your eyes and choose by GPA ... period !
Admit for academic merit, nothing else.
It is, by the way, primarily a school ...
RB, I have had experience with students with poor inner-city school experience that were ethnic but intelligent but had poor preparation and ACTs. BUT flourished in the University environment. So, its not quite a black and white issue. (Pun)
@@brentheid6002 ... It's very much a black and white issue. Students who have diligently prepared their entire lives are excluded for reasons race related. Like having a maximum numbers of Asian in Harvard. It's wrong and moves us to a system purely based on race and not merit. YES, those you speak of should get their chance ... at a state school. Prove themselves and advance ...
@@brentheid6002 then base it on income, or provide them better elementary schools. It's racist to assume that someone is innercity because of their skin color
As long as the institution gets ZERO public subsidies (including low-interest loans) then they should be able to use any criteria they choose.
If they take one Tax Dollar, then no preferences other than academic and attendance should be considered.
Restaurants who don't take tax dollars should be able to choose who they serve... oh wait!
The inherent failure of affirmative action is that it promotes that which it claims to remediate: Racial discrimination. Something that’s been unconstitutional-across _ALL_ races-since the 1960s.
@@samuraimath1864 yes, and let them fail.
@@barryfleming8488 So are you suggesting we go backward in time and revoke the laws that prohibit business owners from denying service based on race? And just "let them fail" instead?
@@samuraimath1864 That's what they're ALL saying!! So sad!!!
MERIT, If all these people were in a room and you could not see them , all you
could see are there grades and achievements how would you choose
Classical symphonies tried this. They were upset that there weren't enough blacks. Naturally they blamed those pesky white people and their irredeemable racism, so all auditions were made blind: applicants were listened to without the panels seeing the applicants or even knowing their names, so they were admitted based solely on merit. The amount of blacks selected went down by over half...
But . . . Gradezez iz razzzzizztttt!! 🤡
you are racist. Hahahahaha
I would favor dark skin b/c it’s in vogue. And with the lights off, hey they’re all dark skinned!
It has been proven repeatedly when people make applications for jobs and mortgages not have identifying information on them, just the data needed, then more people of color are accepted.
This could set a precedent that says all affirmative actions programs implemented by private companies are illegal. It is about f'n time too.
I won’t apologize for being a high warning Hispanic 🤷🏻♀️
Colleges can't defend their admitting policies. It's disgusting.
Schools have been acting as college-prep for more than 30 years now. The curriculum from grade school through high school has been tailored specifically to meet criteria for college admissions standards. Why is it then, that some students still can't qualify on merit?
Because it wasn’t based off merit in the first place. Universities think race quota has to be balanced at all cost.
How does an attorney who is so ineloquent be put in a position to litigate in front of the highest court in the land? That defense attorney completely stumbled through nearly all of his responses. The SC Justices were, by comparison, incredibly well spoken.
He matches this laughable group of so called justices. This court is a joke.
Any lawyer can get his/her case to the supreme court. Simply appeal a federal appeals court decision in writing to the supreme court. If the Supreme Court likes your written argument that the appeals court was wrong and agrees to hear the case, then you can have 2 years of experience being a lawyer, come from a fourth rate law school, and get your case to the top court.
The key is of the 8,000 written appeals to the supreme court only 80 get to oral arguments.
So, only 1 in a hundred who think they have a reason to get the Supreme Court hear their arguments will get a chance to provide them.
It depends upon your written case and the randomness of having a client or cause that might get the Supreme Court to overrule a federal appeals court or state supreme court for US constitutional reasons.
99.999% of court decisions simply have no standing of being appealed that high to be determined through the top courts interpretation of the constitution overruling a lower court.
You could be Saul Goodman, but have a case the supreme court wishes to hear, but if Harvard's/Yale's/etc. best legal minds may never have the run of luck to even have a truly precedent changing case appear before them.
Most cases are simply a lucky lawsuit or criminal issue, that brings Saul Goodman to argue for his client. And if Saul Goodman got you to the Supreme Court would you fire him and replace him with the big bucks NY guys? No. You go to the World Series with the lawyer that got you there.
A friend of mine (criminal lawyer) got SCOTUS to review an argument, but he only got to the written stage, which means they considered taking his case to oral arguments, but then did not. He said he was ecstatic at first, dancing around the office holding his paperwork saying the Supreme Court would consider his arguments. That was before a more experienced lawyer pointed out that they only agreed to review his written arguments, not oral arguments. Needless to say, they refused his request. He has been to federal appeals courts multiple times and a state supreme court has heard his arguments once (he is waiting a result).
The supreme court reviews what they want to. But you need to present them a very convincing written reason why a lower court was wrong and then they have to want to stick their nose into the issue.
The answer to your question is the nervous, ineloquent lawyer had the right case at the right time that the Supreme Court wanted to hear and he provided a written reason that swayed them enough to hear his side and he was not going to give that case to another law firm to close. He made it to the World Series and pitched his game.
Most attorneys are far from eloquent
@@stevejacobson7128 The mental illness of woke has infected the entire legal system.Once it infects the Supreme Court we are done as a country.
@@mikeburke7053 All true and well described. I think the original question was why the respondents (what he called "the defendants") hired someone who sounds here to be somewhat flummoxed. Respondents, by the nature of responding, get far more latitude in choosing their attorneys. I will hazard here that our respondent attorney is quite good, and was somewhat taken aback by the one-two Q&A of not having the answer to one fact-based question ("How do Middle Eastern students get evaluated") and then using that non-answer to pivot into a hypothetical that goes counter to his clients' merit argument. He has to work around obvious hypocrisy on the part of the school, when it fails to apply diversity principles against one class: wealthy students. That is also background about the middle eastern student question: they are typically quite wealthy, and do not fall into any designated US minority class. Yet they are admitted without issue.
@David Min: Even so, lawyers need to be exact, and correct, when working with appellate courts, but especially SCOTUS. Saying "I don't know" is a sign of ill preparation, but significantly better than winging it and being wrong. Even the best are going to be whiplashed by that, when it happens. So our lawyer got gobsmacked, but should have expected these questions. Amazing he didn't.
Think of it this way: you are normally confident and well spoken. But the prettiest girl in town just said hello to you, and you fumbled your response while looking at your shoes. Same thing. (Please tell me I wasn't the only man who felt like a bumbling fool when we met our wives...)
I'm for affirmative action being ended as long ad all these Universities have open books so we can also ban buying admission into major Universities. Many students in Ivy League schools are there because of the "donations" of their parents. That breeds a culture of the same types of people getting the best opportunities. If admission is based on test scores then the Presidents son should have the same requirements as the son of a welder in Hoboken if the welders son has a higher test score.
The best way to deal with this, is to not even ask about race, gender, etc… just look at the test scores, GPAs, and other neutral factors. If someone struggles with writing at a 6th grade level, maybe they shouldn’t qualify for admission to Harvard.
@@VantaBlackin test scores are not biased. They reflect the truth. Fining the for outright bias might help. We all have our biases, sadly. Humans are indeed flawed. And you stopping insulting others would be a step in the right direction.
@@VantaBlackin test scores don't lie, no bias, no bending rules, race should never be considered. That in itself is racist.
@@VantaBlackin if they don't know about the race, gender, etc, then how can their be any bias?
Lol. Trust me. ..no one is being admitted to Harvard at a 6th grade reading level. Black or any other color.
@@geneenjohnson2656 I'm sure also. But it was meant to prove a point on merit as opposed to race. In my humble opinion, race should NEVER play a part in education at any level of education, whether it's the local community college or a elite college.
Alito had the tense exchange not Kavanaugh
The lawyer reminds me of a used car dealer.
Love it. I used to sell used cars before going to law school.
I do t like how soNe racism is allowed while others are “forbidden “ n under the guise of morality and social justice
Enlighten us. What racism is not allowable that you would like to bring back?
Why is it so necessary to go to college? Why is the college pedigree the "end-all and be-all" of life? I'm merely asking.
Networking. In the past, students met there and made connections with other families which would help them advance their careers. An example would be fraternity membership.
Yeah. The world needs ditch diggers to.
College is a good place to learn STEM. However most Democrats don't attend for STEM, they attend for conformity and mediocrity.
Sure guy, but you can bring that up at your next jcc meeting. This is not it.
If your focus is obtaining power, you want that Ivy League education. Just getting admitted means something since those schools can be so selective. And the networking can be extremely helpful as well. That said, if you want a good job, there are plenty of places one can get a great education.
Let's count how many people get accepted because they're on the squash team versus basketball, football, and track teams, and take in account their race.
In 1900, just to be admitted into this university you had to be able to recite Greek classics in Latin. Now graduates can't recall the titles of Greek classics, or have even read them. But these programs and the accompanying lowering of standards has a net positive impact somehow 🙄. Clarence Thomas hit the nail on the head with his remarks about the issue.
But why are people wanted to go to college. It's not to learned Greek literature but to earn a living.
oh yeah 1900, where these high standard times went, but blacks or any other races were not excepted in US though, not that race/color should matter
@@krasavam1625 you mean, the 1900's were? Case and point! Apparently it was a time period where people were capable of using proper grammar etc, unlike today. Yes, there were less civil rights for most folks too, that's true but unrelated to my point.
@@williamlouie569 that's debatable at best man, many folks go for personal enrichment. But the grammar used in your sentence certainly backs up my point, we're less literate and educated than we were over a hundred years ago.
Let's keep AA in place and simply lower academic standards so that everyone can attend and no one can flunk out. Watch the value of education sink faster than Kennedy's car in Chappaquiddick.
I told my boss affirmative action means we conduct ourselves so the highest qualified persons know they have a chance to work here, regardless of race, sex, etc.
that's basically what is happening. people don't trust black doctors cuz of AA. if you want real academic talent, you hire from CalTech, which doesn't consider race at all.
The lawyer sounds rather nervous and lacking in confidence.
The voice is that of Neil Gorsuch, not Justice Kavanaugh. It's worth your time to listen carefully to him. This is the voice of a refined, articulate person who reaches into the realm of imagination as a resource for inspiration. Rare individuals such as Justice Gorsuch are needed, now more than ever, to grow this country beyond its current, autoimmune state. Have you forgotten this voice?
State-administered racism in school admissions, hiring, and contracting practices has to stop, we really need to look at the school system before people get to college entry levels, the public school system in this country has failed to prepare the children for their futures.
Anyone else NOT hear Kavanaugh say anything like that? Outstanding work again Forbes. YOU HAVE ONE JOB
But they did their job. Paint Kavanaugh (and all Republicans) as racist. It was not shoddy reporting. It was and is calculated.
How about the student body should be EXACTLY as diverse as the basketball and Chess teams🤔
I really, Really, REALLY hate that such a small group of people make decisions that affect millions of people lives!
then move. there has to be a place on earth where you can be happy. Don't like it here -- MOVE
Affirmative Action reminds me of China still being classified as an emerging economy. It served its purpose and it's time to move on. Merit based, everyone is equal, everyone can achieve whatever American Dream they're capable of achieving, and no more appeasement or carve-outs for individual races or ethnicities. We're all in this together as equals, and it's up to the individual to make the most of it; it's not everyone else's responsibility to do it for you.
Well said
Agreed. It is a leftist campaign tactic, and has gone on long enough.
affirmative action is supposed to ensure more diversity and allows those who are much more likely not to go to college to attend. Affirmative actions mostly helps African Americans and Hispanics, who still continue to be the lowest represented race in college, despite being the 2nd and 3rd largest demographic in the US :/
@@EduardoOH How would making them score the same on SAT’s as a poor white kid or Asian kid hurt them?
@@EduardoOH None of what you said matters enough to discriminate in favor of anyone!
"Diversity is our strength" means the descendants of the founders get berated from birth for their "privilege," and get set aside for preferences for people from "Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, and the like..." Somehow, I don't think that was the founders' intent.
Agreed. The ROI hasn't been that great so far unless you like being chastised, and considering we've been an established country with super power status for a very long period of time now, it's time to obsolete what's turned into a very divisive slogan.
diversity of mind is strength, and diversity of skin color is just racism.
What is “race-neutral” if “minority status” continues to be a key factor? I’m so confused.
The idea that this lawyer is advocating what his version of diversity is, seems ludicrous. The colleges and universities have literally “affirmative action-Ed” themselves out of business. Most younger people are being hired-to-train for work, chosen trades, or simply work from home in various capacities. This argument is moot. It took too long to get through the court system. In the meantime, life happened. I hope every college and university in America that embraced these progressive, leftist diversity “standards “ becomes defunct in the coming years. They didn’t embrace what it meant to offer a higher education to those that genuinely sought it most. What a joke.
Affirmative Action needs to be overturned……it’s about time. 😊
It is time to restore meritocracy in this country. I don't give a hoot what color you are - do you have the intelligence and the test scores?? Then we can argue about the "race" of the tests.
Meritocracy has been and will continue to be a lie.
Intelligence and test scores only favor those who are well prepared. You’re point of view is extremely ellitist
Your a liar!! You care a lot about race!! It shows!!!
its all about money, you could learn in college or university within 2yrs they drag it to 4yrs and or 6yrs.
Well said, universities make money milking students to take loans from Federal gov. I am from former Soviet Union, to get into colleges and Universities students would have to take exams depended on the major you take. For doctors for example there is only 5 years studies to get Masters. You would have to pass the exam to enroll in biology, anatomy, chemistry, physics, algebra/geometry and Russian language/literature. But then in regular public school we learned all the required subjects like math/algebra/geometry, Russian language/literature, Russian and world history, geography, botanic/biology/anatomy, chemistry, physics, foreign language, astronomy and political economy would add in high school, and all these in 10 years of regular school. Basically we learned the fundamentals of science, literature and history in school, and not in 4 years college like in US to get a Bachelor
It’s a dial, not a switch. What a good argument.
I’ve read hundreds of comments from months ago before the decision came down and I must say my heart is strengthened with the overwhelming majority arguing against discrimination. My fellow Americans don’t believe fighting discrimination with more discrimination. God bless you all.
Imagine being the lawyer at a Supreme Court hearing representing a world renound college for lawyers. I bet his nerves are shot.
and his pockets full.
This attorney is hilarious! He's doing his best to avoid saying that the pig has lipstick!
he sounds like a high school debate kid compared to the sharp jurists on the court.
The Constitution does not forbid discrimination on the basis of squash ability.
It's really important to have a good squash team!
IF YOU DON'T HAVE MERIT. the intelligence it takes to progress to college is WHY college is there in the first place they have PROVEN that they are prepared and have achieved a certain amount of knowledge for FURTHER study. To admit a person just because of "diversity" when they do not demonstrate their commitment and acceptance due to testing and academic judges then they have no business obtaining "special treatment".
You obviously have no idea how AA works!! Clearly, you never went to college!!
Amazing what the lawyers for the Universities are arguing for with a straight face; we need more of this shade of person, than that shade cuz muh "diversity." What's more incredible is that they are arguing (on the basis of diversity) not removing the melanin content question which conversely they claim isn't an entry factor anyway, it's just there as a question.
Lord Jesus please tell me these are not the people that will be making law in America 😑😑😑😑 WE ARE SCREWED
Ryan Park argued this case on behalf of UNC. He is a graduate of Harvard Law and teaches at the UNC School of Law. Justices Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett give strong indiaction that the Titanic of affirmative action in college admissions is soon to hit its proverbial iceberg in the coming months.
I can see why he is teaching and not in private practice.
The guy is literally fighting to keep racism alive.
@@TheRobe- Bingo, race hustling and pushing the black victim narrative is all about keeping the, as Lyndon Johnson called them, "N-words" on the democratic plantation and voting democrat. It's presented as righteous and compassionate but it's really just all ABOUT POWER.
The best way to correct past racism is to commit new racism. Makes sense.
That’s literally a quote from Ibram X Kendi. These people are not good people.
Shouldn't have any box to check and strictly base it on academics.
Kudos, Forbes!
Grades regardless of personal knowledge of students should be paramount.
what about geniuses who are bad at exams? 🤷♂️
@@ExplodingPiggy
If your bad at exams your probably not a genius , and nobody’s going to just take you word for it . I bet your that person who think the math test are racist aren’t you ? Generally people who are bad at test taking are pretty low IQ and think they’re amazing, ironically people who are smart often think of themselves as stupid that’s why they keep learning eventually become pretty good at a lot of things.
Are you suggesting that grades are not paramount?
If so, you are either too ignorant to even have or express an opinion on the subject or you are simply dishonest.
Race, is only one of many factors taken to account with grades being paramount.
Do not be an idiot an tell the whole world.
@@albertstephen2426
Race shouldn’t be a factor in the first place , if I were an employer do you think I should use race as a factor in hiring.
If possible, put your emotional attachment aside with the grounds of this or any other case. Everybody listening to the Supreme Court arguments can learn fresh or inspiring enhancements of anecdotal language, most can be successfully applied to almost any argument/debate. It's a free master class every time these are aired. What an amazing opportunity for those seeking to sharpen themselves.
normaly i would agree with you but now, there's a turd in the swimming pool
Except we have morons like Thomas saying, "I have no idea what diversity means"!!
@@drmorcoch9338 At least in this case she had to recuse herself.
What happened if you just work hard.. and then you score high and you don’t get the admission or the job because some one who has a much lower score or doesn’t work as hard gets the admission or the job… America would have a nation of under achieving people that throw a fit when something doesn’t go their way ( as we are seeing the past several years).. stop this nonsense.. everyone , and I say EVERYONE who has pride, strength, courage, character, academics, willpower, knowledge and understanding should be challenged to the position and not be dismissed because someone that doesn’t have these qualities is given the position.. too many get shunned that are better, too many paid their debt to society to make it worth living, to make America free, this is worth the fight.. stop the free, bias and haunting giving of Americans to fuel corruption and greed.
That's the whole point of socialism; a race to the bottom.
Instead of bringing people from the bottom UP and making them get their shit together, socialism drags everyone down to the lowest quality (just to make those underclass scum feel better) whilst simultaneously taking all of the wealth from everyone.
That's happened over the last 22 years. The only beneficiaries are the ones peddling the myths, bureaucrats and the feckless lazy scum.
And what happens if you have a Hispanic or black sounding name and the white recruiter just likes the name John Smith better so they get in not Ramone or Dante?
@@TheSukairah so now your saying it’s unfair.. guess who’s calling the kettle black..
2 people from different races can score 100 and qualify, being diverse is just balancing the community you enter
@@blacktyke currently there is no balance.. bias is runs freely. Hypocritical policies need to stop. Just what I see around me, just my opinion. Back to basics needs to start all over..
That would be the voice of Justice Gorsuch, NOT Kavanaugh.
And the BS alarms continue to blast away.
Students should be accepted based on merit, not skin color or religion. Its getting very annoying seeing someone get accepted to a top school based on the color of their skin. There are plenty of people living in upscale area’s that grew up poor and worked hard to achieve their new status without any help from affirmative action or diversity programs. Would any of these diverisity clowns choose a surgeon because they had too many white doctors? Of course not. Being poor should be an incentive to work hard and lift yourself up opposed to having a few babies before you are 21 years old.
You obviously have NO CLUE how AA works!!
Hypothesis is a fancy word for "Lie". A hypothetical is a "made up story"...which seeks to rationalize justification for deeply flawed assumptions.
This isn't even Kavanaugh; this is Gorsuch. Wow. Trust the media!
Just strike it down already.
Why turn away a smarter Asian student for a less intelligent student that happens to have darker skin? What is the end result if we are denying education to a student with greater potential?
Define "greater potential"!
Brilliantt, and a very good point from Kavanaugh
It was not Justice Kavannaugh but Justice Gorsuch who had intense arguements with the lawyers..
I thought people supported Martin Luther King Jr.’s notion of judging people by content of character not color of skin what happened?
You could get a full ride from a justice's friend.
They talk about test scores, but when SAT scores are being normed by race and SAT scores are one of the primary factors of admission this gives black students a significant advantage. Black students are given a full standard deviation and asian students are deducted a standard deviation. So an asian and black student with the same SAT score have a differential raw score of two SDs. If that fair?
Maybe just get rid of the gender/race boxes on the application
Get rid of affirmative action, bring down fees, put Americans first, and fund more schools so that every citizen who wants can get an education
What an embarrassment . . .
The voice in the large portion of rebuttal was not Bret Cavanaugh.
It's hard to get the title right when the channel doesn't even listen to it or has it's own stupid agenda. Just a thought 🤔.
Affirmative action is the most ridiculous idea ever. Everything works better when the competition is on an even playing field. When someone has a great idea and decides to start a business, they are looking for the BEST and Brightest people with a STRONG WORK ETHIC. Then the government sticks their nose in and says you have to hire sub-standard people for the sake of EQUALITY. BULL$HIT! You have now made the company LESS profitable and competitive by starting to dumb down the average. What sense does it make to dismiss an extremely qualified person who worked his butt off in school, studied hard, received exceptional grades for some slug who did none of that? Ask yourself this, if you were going in for heart surgery, do you want a doctor who went to med school on and academic scholarship, or one admitted due to affirmative action? In REAL LIFE there are no "Participation Trophies" Do we have schools that EXCLUDE anyone for any reason? Why reward the lazy under achiever?
The difference being used in the biased and unethical admission process to deny Asian entry is that “Personal” ratings are opinionated and cannot be properly measured; whereas, Academics are numerical and are directly, accurately, equally, and properly measured.
That was Justice Gorsuch, not Kavanaugh who said "You don't like it, I got it".
My focus is not a man Justice Kavanagh. My focus is my children and my business. My steps are ordered and I shall keep moving. No worries. Let it go. #ReasonsToBeSingle 💃
Don't judge a man by the color of his skin... Unless he is trying to get into college with shitty grades, or you are trying to reach mandated hire quotas, or they applying for scholarships and grants.
You're so ignorant! AA chooses a minority over a white when faced with EQUALLY qualified applicants!!
@@Dan-sc7us well that is a complete lie but you keep trying.
It’s definitely not people with shitty grades. The requirements don’t change.
It’s a fact that not privilege exists. Affirmative action isn’t admitting unqualified students…it’s admitting the most qualified of underrepresented groups. I’m Hispanic and got a full ride scholarship to a competitive university in SF Bay Area (where I’m originally from). My scores and grades were not less than the average admitted student in my class. I went on to intern and DC and train as a hostage negotiator…even had honorary lunch with a sitting Supreme Court Justice. All that to say…I may have been an affirmative action admission given the composition of my class. There were definitely a few classes where I was out of my depth, but that’s how you grow. It’s not about where you start but where you end up ‼️
Giving a spot to high potential students from underrepresented backgrounds benefits the learning environment for kids who had money to pay for special prep courses, summer workshops, private tutoring, sports and music lessons…often these students live in a bubble
Actually, justice O'Connor's quote from Grutter, which was dicta, not the holding, was, I expect that in 25 years these preferences will no longer be needed.
This was Gorsuch not Kavanaugh. Nice try.
Judge Gorsich was having the discussion with the lawyer not Justice Kavanaugh
Are we not talking about discrimination upon race only? Let's face it, race can not be a factor otherwise everyone should claim to be african.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Correction -the questioning is by Gorsuch here, not Kavanaugh.
I only listened for a couple of minutes, they are going to side with the Plaintiffs here . Bye Bye Affirmative Action. Hallelujah.
So why can't we see it.
This simply has to stop.