Why The Sokovia Accords Are A Terrible Idea - MCU Explained
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- In Captain America: Civil War, the Avengers are torn apart as they fight over a new piece of legislation that would change the way the heroes operate: The Sokovia Accords. While Team Iron Man supports the Accords, Team Cap rebels against them. The film presents the issue as complicated, with strong arguments on both sides. Last week, we discussed the practicalities and the upside of the Sokovia Accords. This week is all Team Cap, as we discuss the strongest reasons why The Sokovia Accords are a terrible idea in this final half of our two-part series.
Edited by Charles Villanueva
Writted and narrated by Doug Herring
Music by Kevin McLeod
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The World Security Council was going to nuke New York due to the alien invasion. Yes, government oversight is such a great idea! -)
Oh yeah, we can always trust the government to act fairly, reasonably, and quickly. They always do that.
It it's amazing how everyone lacks a clear picture of the events that took place. Probably because of the bias toward Cap. The world security council was part of SHIELD. The Avengers were part of SHIELD. Steve, Natasha, Clint, and Nick Fury all worked for SHIELD after they dropped a nuke on NY. Then the Avengers created an AI that tried to destroy the world, and recruited a known Hydra associate, US military men, and another AI robot the Avengers created. The world would be stupid to trust the Avengers to police themselves, and the Avengers would be stupid not to realize that.
@@espo221b just to be fair, Tony was the one who created the AI, not the entire Avengers
@@Marcus-ls6uw Tony, Bruce and Wanda had a hand in Ultron. Tony, Bruce, and Thor had a hand in Vision.
@@espo221b whoops, forgot about them, my bad
Yes, an oversight committee. Not like they could ever abuse their power.
What happened to SHIELD again?
HYDRA happened.
But SHIELDRA's big plan in WS didn't involve control over super-powered people. They would have built the death ships whether there was something like the accords or not. The important point is that you don;t want people like that having preemptive power over the Avengers. I think the relation between SHIELD and the Avengers as seen in the two Avengers moves was good. The Avengers go where they need to, when they need to and SHEILD provides assistance when and if they can. I don't see why the UN can't recreate something like this, along with some sort of post-action recommendation committee to hold the Avengers accountable for any clear, direct, avoidable harm they may cause.
+EvenFlow406 I'm basically with you. That's how I wanted the Accords to be. They way it was presented in Civil War, I couldn't agree with.
EvenFlow406 the problem is with abuse. Politicians always have agendas and would orient the Avengers actions according to what they want, not what's best for the planet necessarily.
arnabdas56 That's why you keep the Avengers autonomous in choosing what they do. If things take a turn for the worse from over-site on the back end then everything will fall apart but at least it didn't prevent the Avengers from doing what they need to.
Another good reason would be what Cap was talking about in the movie, with 117 countries involved certain countries would have agenda's and try to abuse the avengers into acting in their own countries interest instead of the interest of the entire planet.
It is also only 117 lead by the shit hole known as Africa(Though a techno power house that still looks like a slum minus the palace).
True that
Yes, this. And we're not even taking into account the way very questionable way the Accords were introduced in the movie. The Avengers have not been consulted AT ALL beforehand, and Tony Stark just showed up (with General Ross of all people, definitely not a guy who should be trusted after the whole Hulk debacle) and asked them to sign and THEN they'll negotiate. WTF Tony? You negotiate BEFORE signing a contract, you should know that.
Yes. I honestly can't believe so many people don't see the very way the Accords were introduced to them(they were not consulted at all and were only given 3 days to decide) shows in and of itself that the Accords are not to be trusted and already have some sort of other agenda under them. AND the biggie Tony's "we can negotiate" after the fact was just so many words, he has to know that you can't really do any effective negotiations AFTER you sign something. They have no reason to negotiate, they'll just laugh in their faces.
Tony going behind his friends' backs and ruining everything? No way. Not like it happened like 3 million other times.
Plus, there's a couple of huge legal questions:
1. Could Wanda Maximoff and the Vision actually sign the Accords? Wanda was not a US citizen at the time of the Accords' being passed by the UN, so she couldn't sign unless Sokovia had a new government that the UN recognized. Given what Zemo said about Sokovia (namely, it was falling apart before Ultron showed up), I doubt it.
Additionally, the Vision can only sign if two criterion are met: (a) The Vision is a living, sentient being, and (2) The Vision is a citizen of a nation that signed the Accords. The Vision cannot legally sign if only one of the criteria are met, because the Vision would either (a) not be a living being, or (b) not a citizen of a nation that agreed to the Accords.
2. Um... I'm pretty sure that the nations who signed the Accords would have to ratify the Accords within their own legislatures. I know the US Senate does have the power to ratify treaties, and there is an argument to be made that the Accords, as an agreement between sovereign nations, qualifies as something the US Senate would have to ratify before it took effect.
Here's the rub: Try getting 100 grown adults from across the country into a room and convincing enough of them to agree on anything. It wouldn't happen, and would only serve to prove how bad of an idea the Accords would be.
Agathe Dallaire EXACTLY!!!! Gen Ross wtf?!?!?!?
+Reality Rejection Service - As Vision is based on Jarvis, a butler AI program written to be obedient to Stark, is it even possible for Vision to disagree with Stark? We only ever see Vision agreeing with or otherwise obeying Stark's commands.
The cons of the Accords outweigh the pros, IMO.
There are no pros to giving any government access to legitimate super soldiers. Let alone, China or Russia.
That’s not even an opinion that’s just truth
Also, when the heroes are arrested, they are placed in a prison without seemingly due process, in a prison that would definitely violate their right to "not suffer cruel or unusual punishment"
That is the big one, because all nations have different laws on how to handle criminals. Maybe they would have to go to the international court of justice?
government gone too far.
This is one of my points, then you get to add in that the Accords allowed Zemo to come in under their nose and activate the Winter Soldier and the fact that apparently you didn't need proof under the accords (T'Challa hold Bucky responsible with circumstantial evidence.)
@@jeremyanderson6789 government went too far too much power i wanr rogercop and zaheer on this
It would violate their right to a fair trial, not their right against cruel and unusual punishment.
Let’s be honest though, the moment Thanos or some other cosmic mass murderer comes to town the Avengers aren’t going to wait around for approval from a bunch of government agents. Those Accords are going straight out of the window or Earth will be fucked.
findingbuglantis And that’s exactly what happened lol. Ross told them to go imprison the rogues while aliens were threatening the world.
So true man.
"There is no justice, no law, no order, except for the one that will replace it!"
evil Corrupter Government in UN
MCU evil corrupts
@@JEAMillennial13 really quoting Maul during season 7 of the clone wars honestly not bad man
By the time Thanos invades Earth in Avengers Infinity War, the Sokovia accords will come to NO Effect as the Avengers will not wait for the World Government or UN to authorize a counter attack and by the time they moved to act and move a motion, part of the Galaxy had already been obliterated and Earth has already been swarmed by the invading force and become a wasteland.
It gets worse by the end of Infinity War when Thanos has all 6 infinity stones in his gauntlet and kills half of the universe with just the snap of his fingers. That particular moment made the Sokovia accords entirely useless.
Infinity War proved exactly how pointless and ridiculous the Accords were. While Thanos and the Black Order were attacking the earth in search for the Infinity Stones, Ross would rather have the Avengers who didn’t sign the Accords arrested than to face off the real threat. It goes to show that by them signing only meant to serve the benefits of the government and not the entire world.
The other important thing that I don't think enough people touched upon - the Accords conditions treat the Avengers as highly similar, but that is inherently illogical.
The main condition of the Accords is that the Avengers either sign it, forcibly retire, or become criminals. Retiring is significantly easier for the individuals on the team who are just combatants/soldiers, like the Irons or Ant-Man or Black Widow (etc). They might end up on security watch lists, or be stripped of the items giving them their abilities, but that's probably the limit.
What's the guaranteed safety for the nonhuman/enhanced human members? Thor and Vision don't have to remain on Earth. They're powerful enough to leave if they need to. Steve and Wanda (and Bruce, when he comes back to Earth), however, are human enough to be stuck on Earth unless someone takes them away. If they refuse to sign the Accords, they could easily be considered significant threats, more so than the other Avengers. They can't be de-suited, like the other members of the team. Their enhancements are in their physiology, and these make them different from other humans - what would stop someone like Ross from saying these differences make them inhuman enough that "human rights" don't technically apply to them?
Good point
You should at least take a look at The Gifted season 1, that's how the Accords would be if the people making the movie actually got into the implications of what would really happen.
@@indiajohnson Loveeee the gifted, so sad it got cancelled.
Having some kind of oversight is a good idea but the power of such a body over the Avengers should be restricted to after a certain event has taken place. Just as police don't wait for a city council vote to stop a burglary, the Avengers can't wait around to save the world. They need a certain amount of autonomy to be effectual. Putting a system in place to share information and resources with the UN is fine, and gross negligence by individuals that choose to be superheroes makes just as much sense as it does for regular people, but like Cap said to Fury: "I thought the punishment usually came *after* the crime."
There’s also the fact that one of them is pretty much a God and can do whatever he wants. What are they gonna do try to arrest him he’s just going to bust out and at that point they make make an enemy of him in which case he’s going to blow up all their crap just for fun.
@@charlottewalnut3118 not to mention that Thor is technically a prince and that could mean war (at least before ragnorok)
These accords will make all supers "criminals". What happens when a "law abiding" super sees a crime being committed? Nothing? Then he might as well be aiding and abetting. If he/she acts, then they are breaking the law. What about saving lives in a disaster?
Exactly.
Spiderman should fit that description.
I'm against the Sokovia Accords but to be fair, they only applied to the avengers. At least the first draft.
Christopher Davis. You are fundamentally wrong, not intervening in a crime does not make you an accessory.
Failing to intervene is not aiding and abetting. If you see a bank being robbed, you as a private citizen are not thrown in jail for not stopping it. Also, the accords don't explicitly interrupt the Good Samaritan laws, which essentially protect an individual intervening in the case of an accident or disaster. The accords only apply to the Avengers as a group, because as a whole they are more akin to a citizens' militia. It doesn't regulate each hero's individual actions.
This doesn't even mention the issue of Thor. Ross at one point compared Steve not knowing where Thor was to him misplacing a nuclear weapon. The problem is that Thor is not a mindless missile. He's a citizen of a sovereign nation which has no affiliation with the United Nations. And seeing as how his presence on Earth has been nothing but good for the people living here, what is Ross going to do? Walk up to Odin (or Loki disguised as Odin), thank him for helping to save the lives of 99% of Earth's population, and then demand that he be held accountable for the 1% that his son wasn't able to save?
Actually, I would love to see that happen. It would illustrate the real life absurdity of the United Nations.
As for the Hulk, I can definitely understand wanting some oversight on the use of his powers. That being said, every attempt to capture Bruce in The Incredible Hulk resulted in the sort of collateral damage that the Accords supposedly prevent. And every Hulk out in that movie was the result of the government trying to capture him. If Banner is left alone, he poses little threat to anyone. And the fact that nobody knows where he is during Civil War should reinforce that (yes, I know he's off world, but they don't)
Loki would be laughing his ass off.
"Asgard needs to sign this treaty. It's the right thing to do!"
"No."
"Oh. Well, I guess we can't make you..."
I also found it hilarious that Ross was holding them accountable for the whereabouts of Hulk and Thor, but Ross could fucking catch Bruce Banner either.
@@Nemo12417
And yet, it was Ross who created the Hulk in the first place. If anything, Ross should be the one to hold accountability for every collateral damage the Hulk caused.
If Ross ever told me to do that , I’d be like , “ no thanks I choose life!!”
You're also overlooking the fact that the whole "damage control" aspect is just a pretty cover for the real motivation. Which, with this being Marvel, is and has always been "We don't like freaks of nature". The Sokovia Accords is just one of these desperate attempts of humanity to stay on top of the food chain and not admit that they're no longer the center of the universe. Every time governments in Marvel universe start creating Super Registration Acts and countermeasures like Sentinels and such, we end up with ANOTHER bad future where the world is about to be destroyed and Cable or someone else has to go back in time and undo it. As Magneto always said, it starts with "cataloguing for self-defense", then "control" and finally "scapegoating and extermination".
All because mankind simply can't be mature and accept the fact that the status quo is OVER.
Politicians who defend the Sokovia Accords are the type who would use Lex Luthor's phrase in Batman vs. Superman ("Do you know the oldest lie in America, Senator? It's that power can be innocent."), but only when it applies to *superhuman* abilities. What about social and political power? What makes world governments and politicians worthy of deciding when or how superhumans help the world? Because people supposedly voted on them? Voting is essentially a popularity contest. But when someone puts another question from the same movie ("Are you, as a United States Senator, personally comfortable saying to a grieving parent, "Superman could've saved your child, but on principle we did not want him to act."), they can't give a good answer beyond a lame "Well, we should be told about it".
Precisely, my friend!
DeathΩMessenger Exactly Arguement
The execution of the Sokovia Accords is terrible no matter how you look at it. None of the Avengers should've signed until there was more of a middle-ground.
worst idea selfish evil.
It not the avengers fault.
The only thing missing is a more personal approach to why the accords are unfair, I am talking about the moral implications of branding and controlling people like Wanda or Steve, their powers are part of who they are now, suppressing their use under the law and forcing them to register is a grey line that can easily go wrong and incite persecution and discrimination.
I am very sympathetic to this view but the one additional factor to consider is that they are choosing to put themselves into situations that are dangerous and may result in their powers causing harm. The accords did not provide for locking up some Inhuman from flying to his office job every day, but if he is going to start flying around the world deposing dictators he should probably be accountable to someone, in some way.
Agents of SHIELD shows that all superpowered humans have to be registered, whether they're doing superheroics or not.
I don't think so. I watch AoS and all those guys were part of Colson's secret warriors. What civilian super-humans were the threatening to round up?
The inhumans.
The civillian ones.
They have to register their identity, home, location (i think) and wear a tracking collar.
A senator woman got her hands on the sokovia accords index and sold it to the watchdogs for revenge because she has a grudge against inhumans and superhumans.
Masked Hero
Yes they've shown that this season. At the time I wrote my last comments, we hadn't seen any civilian Inhumans.
let's ask our founding fathers,"those who forfeit liberty in exchange for security deserve neither freedom nor security".
'Those who forfeit liberty in exchange for security deserve neither and lose both'
Theres also the factor that how does such governments restrict people with biological/non tech powers like Scarlet witch, Quicksilver , Banner, or Jessica jones. Yea you can take away caps shield or power off vision til he is needed, but are you going to trap Wanda in a straight jacket her entire life
If she actually did something wrong, then yes. The way they treated her in the movie however was absurd.
+EvenFlow406 I think what he's saying is even if you do that,that won't stop them. Even the hulkbuster took much longer than expected to stop the hull. Imagine trying to stop Scarlet Witch,or the vision(unless you're Scarlet witch) for that matter.
magicoA
They did stop Scarlet Witch. She is completely helpless at the end until Cap saves them.
After watching both videos I can now confidently states that the cons considerably outweigh the pros here: #TeamCap FTW xD
Agreed.
Agreed.
I was more convinced that the Accords are a terrible idea.
Iron man is a pussy,he got scared by women,didnt he created ultron ?
He created ultron and was responsible for hundreds of deaths. So yeah, I’m not surprised he has a guilty conscience
TalkingTurtle97 it didn’t mean he had to drag all of his friends with him so he wouldn’t had to bear the guilt alone
Tel me something I don't know
I want nick fury vs thunderbolt Ross evil and evil Zemo
And then there's the obvious Super Human Holocaust implications and parallels, which is detailed in pretty much every X-Men oriented alternate future. Registration and oversight of all superheroes can lead to all registration and oversight of superhumans (which Agents of SHIELD makes very clear is a part of the Accords), and that could lead to internment, experimentation and possibly mass extermination of superhumans, which is literally the definition of a holocaust (destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war). That's the main reason I'm against the accords, even if they are fictional.
They definitely go into this on the show, The Gifted.
How are these political ramifications going to stop Thanos, we need the Avengers to reassemble or we face annihilation and extinction
The Avengers will clearly be like "Thanos is wiping out half the planet. But we gotta wait for the Ok. Should be 3 more days"
They are going to be together again by the next movie.
This is marvel they dont have the balls to try something new.
Griffith Femto Actually youre wrong. The Civil War event does created a ripple effects on IW. Especially with Cap and Tony, Vision and Wanda and others involved.
Griffith Femto, someone was wrong
The part with the different countries is a really good point. I am somewhere in the middle in that I think that there should be a rulebook, but not something as nonsensical as a committee who has to decide if the Avengers are allowed to act or not. BTW, as Civil War has just shown, you aren't able to enforce the accords unless the heroes agree to them, so they had to find a middle ground from the get go.
It seemed like Cap and Stark were headed toward a middle ground until Steve found out they had Wanda under lock down.
True, but then they were finding another middle ground when Tony realized Bucky was innocent... Until he saw Bucky punch in Howard's skull.
That was Tony coming around fully at best or a cease-fire at worst. The only real reaching for the middle I saw in that move was the scene with the pens. They were actually discussing ideas and talking about changes that could be made.
Except it wouldn't have happened. Let's not be naive, the Accords at that point are a done deal and now the Avengers had no leg to stand on when it came to negotiating(you negotiate BEFORE you sign for a reason). Tony knew this and the only reason Steve momentarily weakened was his worry for Bucky and Tony used that to get him by promising "good care". Except Tony couldn't actually promise or control that. And finding out about Wanda brought Steve back to reality.
If it weren't for the accords there could have been a full, organised team of avengers at the battle of Wakanda
Boom, there you go. Politics is an open door anyone could just walk in. Even the bad guys, SHIELD was easily infiltrated and no one noticed til it was torn apart. I bet was Ross was chomping at the bits to have his own superhero goon squad cleaning up his messes. And there maybe some powered people who don't want to sign because they'd be government lapdogs. But they'll force it on them because they can that's what I gathered from AOS. Plus forced registration will create long term problems later, and resentment. When Thanos shows up those accords won't mean jack,
Evil villains goons evil thunderbolt Ross villain squad
So they build The Raft but they have NO supervillains to lock up in it, just heroes? Pretty much sums up the MCU in a nutshell.
Thanos enters, U.N session of 117 countries will take place after 1 week of incident. Great Sokovia Accords 🔥🙌
Why don't the Avengers ever bring up that the Government tried to fucking nuke New York when the aliens attacked?..
Not to mention the potential skrull invasion in government. Would make an invasion much easier if they could oversight the avengers
Seeing this now I'm more convinced the Accords are a bad idea. I was really surprised at Widow, she told the Government to bite her in Winter Solider now she changed her tune because of Nigeria and Sokovia? Please, she was doing stuff like that before she was an Avenger. And Ross lets not forget he made Abomination because of his obsession with the Hulk. And does he really think he can tell an Asgardian what to do? Thor is not of earth so he can say "screw you " to the UN and go back to Asgard. Also how do they know Hydra hasn't infiltrated the UN the same with Shield? they reason why they were able to do that was because SHIELD left the door wide open, for that to happen. And the Governments really can't be trusted either Hydra or not. They'll turn on the Avengers to cover their own skins, like Steve said Agendas can change, they'll flip the script on them in a heartbeat. In Closing the Accords are a bad idea
As it turns out, Natasha had HER own thing going. She was trying to keep things from spiraling out of control as best she could (hence she worked alongside Tony and T'Challa) but she never said whether she'd signed the Accords or not, and went and joined Captain Rogers' team on the run.
Reality Rejection Service One of the many reasons that Natasha is my second favorite Avenger (Cap is always my first)
Magdalena Moss She's up there on my list, too, alongside Daredevil, Iron Man, and Hawkeye.
By the way yes Hydra has still infiltrated the American government
I hope there's a scene Where Ironman tells Thor, you either join the act, or you're enemy,
then Thor Thrashes Tony, like he does in the comics
Captain America was right. The Sokovia Accords would cause more harm than good.
Hahaha come on don't do Hawkeye like that!
Yea. I hate it when people shit on Hawkeye. hawkeye's awesome and frankly, his bow makes him more deadly and useful than Black Widow yet you barely hear people talking shit about her.
Hugo Stiglitz yeah i think the most useless avenger is falcon
I guess it's because Black Widow's been more present in the MCU than Hawkeye has and does more stuff. She was in IM 2 and Winter Soldier, for example.
0:45
But... But... Hawkeye's awesome ! No ? Am I really the only one who thinks that ?
Nope 😄👍
Not at all. Everyone that read Matt Fraction's Hawkeye run knows that.
He's hot and literally has the voice of an angel, but... He's pretty useless. He shoots bows. Literally anyone can be trained to do that.
WhiteRaven696 He's definitely not nearly as strong as god-lings like Scarlet Witch or Captain America, but his skills with a bow far surpass simple training, he's practiced so much that he has perfect aim not just with a bow, but any object that he throws.
***** Hell, my favorite is Peggy Carter, and she has no superpowers... In the comics or MCU. Captain Carter of Puzzle Quest, on the other hand...
In the film, the Accords do nothing to solve the problems they were intended to. 1) To give Tony Stark someone who'll stop him from doing stupid things. Yeah, I have no idea how the Accords will do this, considering he immediately disregards them, and even mocks them, saying he'll just let the phone line blink (which he does.) 2) To stop Scarlet Witch from fumbling dangerous objects in the middle of a battle. This seems more like a training issue. Although curiously, she seems to be in full control of her powers, both before and after that moment.
The superheroes are far beyond of any human law, that's why the Sokovia Accords are a terrible idea
WORST IDEA are evil.
I hate evil zemo he who fight monsters it wasn't' the avengers fault it was ultron fault, thank to black panther stop evil Unforgivable zemo vengeance cuosme you it consume them.
The avengers are not fugitives it mess up: remember in zoptopia Nick said:
I think you said plenty. Judy: What do you mean? Nick: [saddened] Clearly there's a biological component? That these predators may be reverting back to their primitive savage ways? Are you serious? Judy: I just stated the facts of the case! I mean, it's not like a bunny can go savage. Nick: Right. But a fox could, huh? Judy: Nick, stop it! You're not like them. Nick: [getting angered] Oh, so there's a them now? Judy: You know what I mean! You're not that kind of predator. Nick: The kind that needs to be muzzled? The kind that makes you believe that you need to carry around fox repellent? Yeah, don't think I didn't notice that little item on the first time we met. So l-let me ask you a question: Are you afraid of me? You think I might go savage? You think that I might try to... [jumps forward] EAT YOU? [Judy jumps back and puts her hand over the bottle of fox spray] I knew it. Just when I thought someone actually believed in me. Probably best if you don't have a Crinmal as a partner. [gives Judy back the application she gave him for the ZPD, then leaves]
The sokovia accords would basically end up turning the Avengers into Ross’s personal assassins that he can use at free will whenever he pleases.
I watch both videos and see both points of view. However the idea that the Avengers would be constrained by bureaucracy is awful. They don't respond to 911 calls about kitties stuck on trees, urgency with world ending events is of the utmost urgency. Some of the world saved is better than the whole world destroyed. Don't even get me started with corruption and people with ulterior motives and corrupt agendas having control over the avengers. Therefore i am team Cap all the way.
I am against the accords. Besides. If i remember correctly then the other avengers are ok it's just don't who should sign as he created ultron. He is the reckless and doesn't listen to reason. Although if he doesn't listen to his team then how can we be sure he will listen to the avengers. No offence to anyone who likes iron man but I am TEAM CAP all the way. Just my opinion.
me too.
The avengers are not fugitives it mess up: remember in zoptopia Nick said:
Also: the problem with the accords is that their content specifies the dehumanization of enhanced individuals. (i.e. in the AOS series, which is confirmed to be MCU canon, the accords make it so that all inhumans have to be registered and that they can be detained at any time with no trial. Goes against basic constitutional rights. Furthermore, it blocks the development of any further artificial intelligence; which is why it's a bit hypocritical of Tony Stark to agree to it when he has Karen and had had JARVIS.
And FRIDAY.
he largely ignores thta clause he just makes note not to replicate ultron or make an AI too advanced like vision
The Sokovia Accords need to be abolished permanently?
Yeah burn it.
How would the Sokovia Accords deal with Thor who isn't even of this planet? They could enlist Loki to help with that, if they could trust him!
None of the points supporting the Accords convinced me. So yeah, I’m with Cap on this one.
evil Ross is like General Elling Justice League Unlimited
Me Too.
@@JEAMillennial13 General Ross is Custer's Syndrome personified.
Was against the Accords to start with, and after both videos I’m even more convinced the Accords are bad.
Forcing supers to work under a governing body is WRONG.
Let's not forget the possibility of a corrupt governmental body.
"possibility".
like evil WORLD GOVERNMENT in ONE PIECE ANIME
Navy .
@@jeremyanderson6789 Certainly so: The World Nobles are the living testament of how corrupt the World Government, a totalitarian and absolute monarchy, actually is.
Ikr say hydra formed so easily inside of shield , what if a group forms inside of the 117 country’s and goes bad ….. or they don’t agree on something so the world goes boom
Bear in mind, Sokovia happened because Tony decided to be GOD.
Normal Arms Dealer get left a cave for months after the US Military doesn't protect him. His closet work friend tries to kill him and then steals his life support system. He realizes that his life support system is killing him, but gets saved by some secret shadow group that wants him for something. Joins the thing the group wanted him for he flies into a black hole after spending an afternoon killing things. Realizes how small he is and how big of a threat things are in the world. Just now experiences PTSD and starts compulsively making things. No checks to make sure this guy is fine. He spends his time working with Warriors, Soldiers, and fighters who do this all day. He just a regular joe who didn't originally want any of this . He makes a system that would fight in his stead and defend the world. So he can go home.
@@godfreyemmanuel3097 It makes sense why he would do it, but it doesn't make it right that he did. Like in Civil War he is the antagonist. He tries to do what is right, but sometimes what he thinks is right is actually wrong and fueled by emotions instead of logic.
Accords? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING ACCORDS !!!
If it weren't for those Accords, Vision would have been right here."
Captain America is correct. Ross agreed with the president about keeping The Avengers in check, but this sorry piece of garbage recruited Bolonsky and made him the Abomination.
All of that and he received a huge promotion from general to secretary of the army.
But he supports the accords as well as Rhodes who thinks it's correct because Ross has a Congressional Medal of Honor.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one that remembered that Ross made the Abomination happen.
@@shadowwriter4538 Yeah, it's like they're trying to forget that The Incredible Hulk (2008) even existed.
Does anyone else find it ridiculous that no one is tracking down Luke Cage and making him sign the Accords? He's a bulletproof man that stared into a TV camera and told everyone his name.
He's in jail now.
Aren't the MCU TV shows in a weird limbo where they don't really crossover with the movies?
Fraser Souris agents of shield directly causes the beginning of age of ultron
And we all saw how well that worked out for Tony, lol.
Agents of Shield is obvious, but I'm not sure about Iron Fist, Punisher, Luke Cage etc.
After watching both videos, the definitive conclusion is that the accords are terrible.
"Solid arguments on both sides" that is pretty funny. There are bad arguments for one side and good arguments for the other side.
Something tells me the Accords will be dropped because the Avengers will realize how bad it is. Cap is right because we saw what happened during Winter Soldier.
The accords being dropped will come to fruition in light of the events of Infinity War.
Avengers are good guys.
They need a new accords. Written BY the Avengers. The Avengers will remain autonomous, but countries can sign on to support them. In return for their support, the Avengers get unrestricted access to their country and the benefit of their protection. If you don't sign on, the Avengers will give you no support, unless they deem something going down to be a threat to the world.
I think the Avengers should include some lawyers or anyone who can understand both sides of the argument in their Accords. Neither the Avengers nor the government are perfect. If someone like or better than Cap isn’t calling the shots, what if we have someone like or even worse than Stark? Agendas can change, no matter who writes the rules. It would be just as dangerous if enhanced individuals could twist those rules to suit their own plans and no one was able to properly level the playing field for the civilians (like what happened to the Avengers in this situation).
I'm compleatly against The Sokovia Accords. Like you said, by the U.N. doesn't known ANYTHING about Darren Cross, or Loki, or Thanos. If ANY of the Avengers stopped and asked permission before they run in and stop them, the entire population on Earth, or maybe Earth itself might be gone by the time they tried to stop them. Plus It would've gave the villains much time for their plan to be in prepared before the Avengers stop them.
As soon as he said the 117 countries had to decide and approve when the Avengers can act... It was doomed.
Imagine Cap finds someone getting robbed and had to wait for Abu Dhabi's vote.
And this is exactly why the Accords do more damage than good.
It wasn't the Avengers fault it was the villains fault Loki, Alexander Pierce evil Ultron evil Zemo. Hydra.
Incredible Hulk: Ross helps make Abomination destroying Harlem
Avengers: Government tries to nuke Manhattan during invasion
Iron Man 3: Terrorists kidnap and try to execute President
Winter Soldier: HYDRA was hiding inside of SHIELD, and almost killed millions
Government: AvEnGeRs ArE dAnGeRoUs
Typical government putting blame on the blameless to make themselves look useful.
Avengers are not Dangeous.
Does anyone else besides me Think that forcing superheroes to register with the Sokovia accord's is a bad idea
Because I sure do
It is. It's also proved in the Agents of Shield series, because an anti-inhuman organization abused the registered list to track and murder inhumans. Not superheroes either. Just normal, innocent people who happened to be inhuman.
all that aside, I'm not sure if an unstable egomaniac with PTSD who almost destroyed the world and put his blame on everyone else who were trying to clean up his mess is in any position to make any decision for the team.
All Tony trying to do here is shifting his blame to everyone so that he wouldn't be held accountable for destroying a country
I want to see Batman against evil Sokivra Accords
Tony and Ross made terrible monsters
It is obvious that no matter what good the Accords do, they do more harm. Cap was right. Iron Man should stick what he does best, drinking himself into oblivion.
Cap was right, we been knew.
I want nick fury to be here again UN.
evil Thunderbolt Ross is a evil anti-hero villain
I want nick fury to be here again UN. and vs evil unforgivable Thunderbolt Ross (Red Hulk).
Let’s be honest. The reason why the Accords were created because the government were upset and jealous on how much of a better job the Avengers are doing compared to them.
If it weren't for those Accords, Vision would have been right here."
There isnt one good arguement for the Accords period. Now an agreement to watch Tony. Yea. He actually should have been brought up on charges.
Against the accords.
to quote Falcon, how long are you gonna play both sides?
After thanos snaps his fingers, I'd love to see the united nations try to meet up and debate wether the Avengers should still go and help
I legitimately can’t comprehend why ANYONE would be on Team Iron Man.
Possiblity of getting a cool iron man style suit
The thing is that Sokovia would never have happened if it wasn't for Stark and Harlem wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Ross... Yet they are up for making all of the Avengers pay for their mistakes. Starks oversight caused the death of Zemos family, and as such, was the catalyst for Civil War...
The Accords should have only applied to them.
Ross is bitter and twisted that he isn't superhuman, wasn't able to militarise the Hulk and wanted control.
Stark has a guilty concience and wanted to make sure that he wasn't hung out to dry...
"I'll tell you what, rename this, the 'Tony Accords', and we'll sign."
I don't like evil cruel jerk UNFOEIGVBALE zemo ni excuse what you have done evil he murders innocent people like black panther father he too full of hate hypocrite and misplaced. he crossed the line. not the avenger's fault.
The accords are dumb they should have a set of rules and a council on whether what they did was following those rules or not. Its not practical to be reactionary to the threat they have to be reactionary to the outcome.
The fact is that cap put this trust in shield and then found out that all his efforts were being controlled by hydra. He said he puts his trust in individuals at the end of civil war bc he has been completely betrayed by an organization. He knows that even if the UN seemed well intentioned now, it doesn’t mean that the organisation’s aims or the people controlling it won’t change.
UN evil well intenioned villains.
I like shield.
@@jeremyanderson6789 evil cruppet misplaced hypocrite lying) government it mess up
I love how part 2 has more than double the view count of part 1. Really speaks volumes.
That accord make somehow the Avengers look like a suicide squad only with heroes instead of (super)villains.
The government were the ones who tried to nuke new york in avengers
not the avengers,
I don't like politician.
300? Who in the world recognizes 300 nations? The UN recognizes 206 nations, and of those 15 have disputed sovereignty. I've never heard of anyone who actually recognizes more than 210.
Keep in mind, a lot of places like African and the Middle East are still very tribal i.e. they are loyal to the zulu tribe or some such, as opposed to the local government. And there are a lot of tribes out there in the developing world.
It could also potentially encroach on civil liberties. It's basically the MCU equivalent of the mutant registration Act.
Watch The Gifted, it'll show you.
@@indiajohnson That sounds vaguely familiar.
When I first saw the movie in the theater, I agreed with Captain America. Still do.
As soon as it was explained, I already decided I hated the accords
The Sokovia Accords would've never been ratified in the United States; the frequency of which that it violates the constitution is laughable.
I think Zaheer has a point: about the corrupt government and evil villains ruining avengers lives It not the poor sweet Avengers fault. Jessica Jones was right all along.
I’m agains the accords but I’m not against cooking sausages on an iron that’s a good idea
Terrible idea born from invalid assessments of Avengers actions.
And Secretary Ross, who is Custer's syndrome personified was the most interested on this
@@jorgebersabe293 evil thunderbolt ross is a bitch
Here's a better question, if it's about gaining control of the Avengers because the Governments of the World feel unsafe, what the fuck are the accords going to do if the Avengers did say 'Fuck the Governments' and fought back against the military. 'We will lock you up' would only work if the Avengers let them, and these guys have fought alien armies that laughed in our armed forces faces. If the Avengers chose to conquer, we wouldn't be able to stop them. As for accountability, any Governments want to come forward and account for all their fuck ups? No, well then stop blaming the Avengers for saving your asses.
Yeah. it Unforgivable
In other words, “Team Captain America.”
Zaheer was right about the evil accords.
I am against the accords all the way for the exact reasons given here.
I hate evil cruel jerk unforgivable thunderbolt ross i want to see to be punished and his conquences too put banner as a crinamls
@@JEAMillennial13 or fired.
If everyone signed, the governments would use the Avengers as their scapegoat if anything wrong happened. Good thing the Accords are tabled after Infinity War.
Not to mention that the government would have no idea at all about Asguardian or outer-planetary threats like Thanos, the dark elves, Ego, the Chitari...
Team Captain America all the way!
Still solidly Team Cap.
yeah in the comic cap said that if the accord was signed , the government can decide which one is the hero or which one is the villain
I’m convinced because after I watched Infinity War. Those Accords are not the excuse when Thanos is killing many people.
Didn't the government fire a nuke at new York when chitari showed up what was that gonna do shower new York with hugs be serious
The accords would never have worked out and literally half of the things they’re blamed for were not their fault. They had no idea Loki was going to come to earth with the chitari and the thing in DC was the governments fault for not checking their shit with SHIELD. Sokovia you could argue was Tony’s fault for creating ultron and Lagos was Wanda’s fault cuz she didn’t control the explosion enough. But these weren’t all things directly caused by the avengers and it would only lead to governments possibly screwing over innocent people because their issues might not have been “enough for the avengers to be needed”
It wasn't the avenegers fault and SHIELD fault , they are heroes, not criminals
I'm against the Sokovia Accords soooo.... This does put a smile on my face.
Zaheer had a point.
Does anyone realise that it's the debate of individual liberty or government control... I'm pro liberty all the way so I'm team Cap no matter what
Yeah the sakovia accords would be legally problematic
Even Cap said that it’s not impossible as long as there are checks and balances (especially because agendas can change). The Avengers needed to be checked (at least on some things), but I’ll admit that the Accords were the wrong way to do that.