This is the most detailed & well explained tutorials I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot!) on this subject. Excellent video as many here have already said. I just wish I'd found your channel years ago 👍
wow! I was really struggling managing colors while editing a clients project, made a munch of changes to my settings and messed up all my colors. I have watched about 20 videos on youtube about color management, and then this popped up randomly. Now I totally understand how PS color spaces work, and fixed everything wrong with my settings in 2 minutes. thank you so much, I would have struggled for day if it wasn't for this video.
This is if not the best its ONE OF THE CEST!! It really helps that you are a photographer explaining this! You helped me fix my issue with working from LR C to PS, as it save in .tif in LRC, the color shifted to a scary green! Thanks a bunch!!!! Problem solved!
Talk about perfect timing! I wanted to know about this for a while now, but felt intimidated! I am a visual learner (and terrible at reading), so it was really great to see and be explained how this works. Thanks!
Thank you very much, Mr. Greg Benz, for the most wonderful explanation It was literally what I was looking for, what are the correct Photoshop color settings? I was making designs for printing on demand and the photos were very poor and faded and not suitable for printing and I did not know the reason even though the resolution was high at 300ppi But the situation has changed and the pictures have improved greatly after watching this wonderful lesson from you I benefited a lot from this lesson Thank you again, Mrs. Greg Benz Greetings to you from Egypt
I never get just one beer when I walk into a restaurant first of all... ;-) Great video Greg. For over a year now I have had a draft copy of an article on this exact topic with some in depth info. This covers it all and it’s better to watch than read!! Love it. Great job buddy!! Merry Christmas!!
Well done and can you go a step further and explain printing profiles, and set up? Pro photogs like myself using labs to print client work and yet there's a real need for education about this subject.
Great video and great job Greg! I am not new one in Photoshop and Lightroom and globally I did understand concept of different Color spaces but I did not understand relationship of Color space, assigned or untagged image profiles, and changing them during the import or work in Photoshop. Now I get it! Thank you so much.
Five years. that is how long I have struggled with the color on my images looking HORRIBLE.. Ever since i bought a Canon 5D mark 4 the colors have looked horrible. I thought my camera was broken and i got a sony. It was even worse. And I almost gave up photography entirely because the gear could not capture what I was seeing. Not even close. I couldn't hardly get a usable image even with the best settings on the camera and light. . But now here I stand to confess, I am not a computer guy. In today's standards apparently you don't need to be a photographer. You just have to be good at computers. But either way, I can't express how thankful I am that this computer guy just helped this computer dummy on how to fix the problem that is been looming over me for forever and almost stripped me of my hobby that I love. So folks if you're out there like me and you have raw and JPEG files looking like trash straight off the camera when you had such better success with previous cameras. This is your video THANK YOU!!!
@Gamesemag never use your monitor space for the image. Just pick a standard space like Adobe RGB. If the image reopens in PS / LR ok, it is good and the problem is with your other software. Search for my name and browser color management for a related tutorial.
Another masterpiece! Thank you. I had a good laugh when you said "looks awful", because I see a lot of footage using this kind of color grading on social media. Depending the case off course, it does look awful at times :)
@@gregbenzphotography mainly this: after soof proof and do the necessary corrections , and since i'm sending the file to a lab, i should do Edit-convert to profile, and apply the same ICC profile, right?
@@joaoquintela1575 Bottom line: I would ask your lab (but be careful to assess who you are speaking to, most labs have only a few people who really understand this, and they are typically ones making the prints, not responding to customer support questions). Some labs will accept a file with their embedded profile, others request that you use standard working spaces. In the absence of a confident answer from your lab, I would send the file in a working RGB space. Adobe RGB is probably the best common choice. I'd rather not send ProPhoto simply because it contains so many potential unprintable colors that I worry about how they may handle out of gamut colors (the proofing profiles here can show extreme yellow converted to blue!) If you really want to get into it, I think betaRGB or REC2020 are better options, but most labs wouldn't expect them and getting the benefits here really require understanding the details of color. These spaces include printable colors outside the Adobe RGB gamut, but not nearly so many of the unusable/imaginary colors of ProPhoto. Aside from profile issues I'll mention below, there's a good risk that you might not be using the latest representation of the output nor giving your lab the ability to color correct or help you with out of gamut colors. Most pro labs have ICC profiles with some surprising issues or may not be intended for actual output. Many are more than 10 years old. The out of gamut tables from one vendor are gibberish. Some apply output curves to simulate the appearance of the image under glass (ie, it isn't a profile that represents the print itself, just intended for proofing).
@@gregbenzphotography thank you very much for your time. In fact I haver Huge problems dealing with labs here in Portugal. Wonder why? I was looking for a more simple anser; after i made the necessary adjustment to my file, should i convert the file for the used ICC profile, should i embebed the profile? And for the Printers that dont real embebed profiles ( just like the Fuji Frontier i’m using)
@@joaoquintela1575 I added a lot of detail, but bottom line is that I would ask your lab what they need/want. You should always embed the profile (which is the default unless you do something to remove it), whatever you use.
This is awesome. I'm piecing together all the elements for a fully colour-managed enviornment. Got the hardware calibrated monitor (BenQ SW270C), the calibrator (X-Rite i1 Studio Pro) and managed to wrap my head around the concept of ICC profiles and the idea of softproofing as I plan to create prints later. This video will help me round out what I need to to know to finalize everything. Thanks! I assume that because Lightroom is in the Adobe ecosystem that configuring it in this way would be identical to Photoshop? Thanks.
Lightroom is different, and simpler. If your monitor is color managed / profiled, you've done the hard work. The other option is which colorspace LR will use when sending to Photoshop or exporting. The export option offers full flexibility, but otherwise, the LR interface is limited to sRGB, AdobeRGB, and ProPhoto RGB options. Important to choose correctly here, as the is converted permanently when sending to Photoshop (unless opened as a RAW Smart Object, then you could adapt later). If you don't know why you'd choose something else, use Adobe RGB for your layered files and use sRGB just for exporting to the web (I also have a free web sharpening utility that will do this for you: gregbenzphotography.com/photography-tips/how-to-sharpen-and-resize-photos-for-the-web-in-photoshop)
@@gregbenzphotography Great, thanks for the advice and additional resource. I'll be sticking with AdobeRGB as my initial colourspace since that's the best my Nikon DLSR is capable of, maintaining that space throughout if I decide to make prints, and converting to SRGB for posting online.
Most people aren’t. Key watch out is reasonable color balance to get a fairly accurate histogram in camera, otherwise the color space and such in camera really don’t matter if you’re shooting RAW.
Hi Greg, as always it was very informative and helpful. I am signed to your news letters. Would you please consider a dodging and burning tutorial using history brush in PS. Thank you.
What do you mean in that regard? Talking about changing the image and painting back? I tend to do it non-destructively with layers instead of changing pixels.
@@gregbenzphotography Thanks for responding. Sorry, I didn't explain clearly, its a technique I saw some photographers mentioned claiming the best way to dodge and burn non destructively, but those tutorials are not available publicly, I do not want to name them here. Its using the history brush to paint highlights or shadows. Could you please guide me to the tutorial you just mentioned. Thanks so much.
Gotcha, I’m aware of that approach and some other such concepts. With history brush, you can paint on a separate layer. It’s non-destructive in a way, but there’s a lot you cannot alter. It’s more the ability to just step back. If you’re really into dodging and burning, I show my whole process in detail I. My course, far deeper than I can go in a UA-cam video. gregbenzphotography.com/dodging-burning-master-course
Thanks for this excellent video, Greg. Color management has always been such a confusing topic. Question? How much of an effect on color does 16 bit vs 8 bit have? I've been using 16 bit ever since working with Lumenzia, but some of my older edits are in 8 bit. Would converting them to 16 bit cause any issues? Thanks again! Appreciate all you're doing!
No problem! Bit depth affects precision, but not the range of color (ie, no effect on the size of the gamut). Basically, fewer bits just means more rounding errors in the math. Limited bits in the data would typically be seen in your image as banding in smooth areas. Converting 8-bit docs to 16 before making further changes is helpful to avoid further loss of quality. See here for much more info: gregbenzphotography.com/photography-tips/8-vs-16-bit-depth-photoshop
Great video Greg this is starting to make a little more since now. I have a question, I have a BenQ monitor where I can change it to Adobe RGB, what color space should I be in photoshop if using the monitor in Adobe RGB?
Means you might keep or create colors which can be printed, but not clearly displayed on your monitor. I do this for more printable color, but you should soft proof your prints. Gets trickier. Good option, but Adobe is great and safe if you don’t want to go deep on technical stuff.
Many thanks Greg. An excellent explanation. A question if I may which is related to this. In your opinion, if you are post processing an image for printing, I'm talking home photo printer like an Epson R3000 for example, what is the best working space. Is it ProPhoto or AdobeRGB? At the moment I use AdobeRGB from camera all the way through on the, possibly incorrect, understanding that my printer uses AdobeRGB as it's base, albeit modified via a custom ICC profile. The rational being that using the same colour space all the way through the final print will match what I intended assuming the monitor is calibrated, in my case my monitor handles 99% of AdobeRGB, and ICC profiles are used to print. This sacrifices some colour handling ability over ProPhoto and hence my question. Hope that makes sense and apologies if I'm betraying a complete misunderstanding of what is going on.
AdobeRGB is a great choice. ProPhoto can hold more, but requires a little more care. The benefits are small. There are a few other options that would be even better if LR more easily supported other workspaces. Adobe is a great choice.
Hey Greg, nice video to understand color spaces. But I still have doubts. Many wide gamut monitors ship with their own sRGB, P3 and Adobe RGB color spaces. Assuming that the monitor is factory calibrated and I do not do a hardware calibration using a colorimeter, when working in PS what should the color space of the monitor be? If I set my monitor to sRGB, it means that color gamut is clamped, so even if my PS workspace is in Prophoto does it mean that I won't observe the color change in my file? My monitor has 2 color spaces, sRGB and DCI P3, so what would be the ideal color space to work in and monitor profile to select?
The working space in PS, the embedded profile in a given image, the color gamut setting in your monitor, and the color profile set in your operating system for that monitor are all different things. PS working space should be set to sRGB for most users. This working space is just the value Photoshop should assume when there is ambiguity - such as if the image is untagged, and most untagged images will be sRGB. The embedded space in your image depends on how you plan to use the image or what was provided to you. This determines the gamut for the image and should be considered separately from the other factors here. For a working image, I recommend Adobe RGB, P3, ProPhoto, or Rec 2020. For an image being prepared for the web on sites where you cannot control reprocessing (such as social media), I recommend sRGB simply because the profile may be stripped and sRGB will be assumed (this is a sad scenario, but we can't control it). Your monitor's built in color space option is meant for niche needs. I see no purpose in limiting it to sRGB in your display, that's just downgrading a wide gamut monitor to a 1990s standard. If you need to see what sRGB would look like, you can convert an image or soft proof (I wouldn't convert your image to sRGB unless it is just a copy used for final export to the web). Your monitor profile in the OS will either be a canned profile from the manufacturer or a custom profile you set. This profile makes your display more accurate. This profile should never be used in your image or Photoshop, it's just meant for the OS. If you are doing your own custom profile, it will probably be affected any gamut clipping you choose in the monitor settings - so set that to P3 before profiling and then leave it alone. Short answer: set PS working space to sRGB and the in-monitor setting to P3.
Greg, even after I ask Lumenzia to optimize my Photoshop preferences, when I open the working space settings, the "Grey" defaults to "Dot Gain 20%", not to Grey Gamma 1.8. You mentioned that Lumenzia will manage this for me when I use luminosity masks. My question is: What should the setting be for my normal workflow when I am not using luminosity masks/Lumenzia? Thank you!
For the gray space, Lumenzia optimizes it continuously as needed while you work. It does not change it when you click "optimize", as there is no single value that should be used all the time, it's more complicated than that. When you view those settings after you've worked with Lumenzia for a bit, you should see it has changed. Try creating an L3 selection and check again. If you aren't seeing it update, please drop me an email to review the details. Other than the considerations Lumenzia uses for luminosity masks, you should ignore the gray working space. You should not work in the gray mode and updating this setting manually when working with masks otherwise is really only feasible if all your documents use the same embedded workspace. Using a mix of sRGB and Adobe RGB wouuld be ok, since their gammas are close enough, but ProPhoto is quite different. For more details, please see: gregbenzphotography.com/luminosity-masking/how-to-optimize-your-gray-working-space-for-better-luminosity-masks
@@gregbenzphotography Thank you for your quick reply, Greg. After I made that comment, I watched the other video that you linked in this one (same one you recommend in your comments) and it made it all clear. Thank you so much!
Greg, I had to go back and re-watch this video.. I've noticed an issue with photoshop and black and white conversions. There is a green tint in the shadows in photoshop, this doesn't show up when I open the same file in LR, or when the image is open in a plug in like NIK Silver Efx. Is this an issue with the working space (prophoto rgb) I did some searching but couldn't find a resolution..
@@gregbenzphotography Awesome, thanks for the super fast response Greg! Your channel is always the best for factual detail and education, my go to source :) And yes it does fix the issue!
Should be the same when properly managed, skin tones wouldn’t go outside of Adobe RGB, should render the same in either. But if you have active layers, any conversion will be a mess. gregbenzphotography.com/photoshop/how-to-convert-rgb-color-space-in-photoshop/
Thanks for the video… one thing I don’t quite understand is where profotorgb and it’s wider gamut is deemed superior however, as far as I’m aware no monitor can display that gamut where as there are quite a few that can display 100% of the adobe rgb… so sure;y it is better to have your entire workflow in adobe rgb and use a 100% adobe rgb monitor…. Or am I missing something
That’s my point, it contains more color than Adobe RGB that some prints and monitors CAN handle. It has some totally unusable color too, but it does expand the range of real usable color. Personally, I think Beta RGB and Rec2020 do a better job of including more real color with less excess (theoretical or fake color options).
Well, untagged looks the most realistic on my screen. Photoshop got the right guess. It's the other profiles that look fake to me where i can tell with certainty that they were photo edited
Using 2019 photoshop..photoshop to print color is dull.. but i change the settings still not working... printer also good condition.. what's the problem sir
Hey Greg, question for you: I own a benqsw2700pt Adobe RGB monitor. I edit my photos in ProPhoto RGB, then convert to SRGB for the web. Everything looks the same from lightroom - photoshop - web, which is great. However, I am viewing it on a larger gamut display. 99% of people view my images on an SRGB display such as a tablet, phone, or SRGB monitor. When I change my monitor setting to SRGB, it looks quite dull, and it doesn't compare to my MacBook display (which is SRGB). Basically, am I viewing everything overly saturated with an adobe RGB monitor? or is the SRGB setting on my monitor not accurate?
I would use soft proofing or convert to view that rather than changing monitor settings. Anytime you change monitor settings, you’re introducing a lot of change and probably need to create a new profile for the current calibration.
@@gregbenzphotography that all makes sense. I recalibrated my monitor using SRGB, and the display is practically the exact same as when I had it set (and calibrated) at Adobe RGB. That's a big relief.
Hi Eric I to have a Benq monitor, do you change your monitor to Adobe RGB to edit your photos? this is all new to me and trying to get my head around it!
Good labs support better now, good monitors too, and all this will increase over time. Editing with a small gamut throws away the option to do better later.
Surely this is all dependent on your monitor? If you're working in the Adobe RGB colour space and you're monitor is only an sRGB monitor, it will only show the range of colour that the monitor is capable of displaying. It's like watching a Blu ray film on a standard definition TV, you won't see the film in HD.
It will affect what you see at that moment, yes. But these choices affect what you may later. If you edit on sRGB on an sRGB monitor, you’re losing the ability to see more color in a print or on another screen. You’re also losing the ability to control the conversion into sRGB, which can be improved with advanced techniques. The main premise of profiles is to improve color across multiple devices. Back in the early 90s when people weren’t sharing files and doing their own prints, “closed loop” color management was done without profiles. It was in many ways much simpler because you just optimized for what you saw. But it falls apart when you introduce more screens or someone else’s printer, etc.
I want to ask...is it wrong to hack or my black ink doesn't work anymore because it's broken...so how do I adjust the color in Photoshop so I can produce black again when I print my banner please help🙏🙏
@@gregbenzphotography I ask, how can we produce black when the banner is printed? even though the printhead on the machine is no longer working......how do you combine colors to produce black when printing banners?
This is very interesting... I just wish I wasn’t colorblind! I can’t see any kind of difference between the ProPhoto profile and sRGB in your examples! You alluded to a pretty big change, I just can’t see it. Obviously, this isn’t your fault at all! I just thought you might be interested in my point of view with my specific visual handicap!
This is the most detailed & well explained tutorials I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot!) on this subject. Excellent video as many here have already said. I just wish I'd found your channel years ago 👍
Amen!
wow! I was really struggling managing colors while editing a clients project, made a munch of changes to my settings and messed up all my colors. I have watched about 20 videos on youtube about color management, and then this popped up randomly. Now I totally understand how PS color spaces work, and fixed everything wrong with my settings in 2 minutes. thank you so much, I would have struggled for day if it wasn't for this video.
Glad it was so helpful!
This is if not the best its ONE OF THE CEST!! It really helps that you are a photographer explaining this! You helped me fix my issue with working from LR C to PS, as it save in .tif in LRC, the color shifted to a scary green! Thanks a bunch!!!! Problem solved!
Talk about perfect timing! I wanted to know about this for a while now, but felt intimidated! I am a visual learner (and terrible at reading), so it was really great to see and be explained how this works. Thanks!
Thank you very much, Mr. Greg Benz, for the most wonderful explanation
It was literally what I was looking for, what are the correct Photoshop color settings?
I was making designs for printing on demand and the photos were very poor and faded and not suitable for printing and I did not know the reason even though the resolution was high at 300ppi
But the situation has changed and the pictures have improved greatly after watching this wonderful lesson from you
I benefited a lot from this lesson
Thank you again, Mrs. Greg Benz
Greetings to you from Egypt
I never get just one beer when I walk into a restaurant first of all... ;-)
Great video Greg. For over a year now I have had a draft copy of an article on this exact topic with some in depth info. This covers it all and it’s better to watch than read!! Love it. Great job buddy!!
Merry Christmas!!
LOL. Thanks, Brian!
Thank you so much Greg, It was very helpful and informative for me!
Well done and can you go a step further and explain printing profiles, and set up? Pro photogs like myself using labs to print client work and yet there's a real need for education about this subject.
Great video and great job Greg! I am not new one in Photoshop and Lightroom and globally I did understand concept of different Color spaces but I did not understand relationship of Color space, assigned or untagged image profiles, and changing them during the import or work in Photoshop. Now I get it! Thank you so much.
Five years. that is how long I have struggled with the color on my images looking HORRIBLE.. Ever since i bought a Canon 5D mark 4 the colors have looked horrible. I thought my camera was broken and i got a sony. It was even worse. And I almost gave up photography entirely because the gear could not capture what I was seeing. Not even close. I couldn't hardly get a usable image even with the best settings on the camera and light. . But now here I stand to confess, I am not a computer guy. In today's standards apparently you don't need to be a photographer. You just have to be good at computers. But either way, I can't express how thankful I am that this computer guy just helped this computer dummy on how to fix the problem that is been looming over me for forever and almost stripped me of my hobby that I love. So folks if you're out there like me and you have raw and JPEG files looking like trash straight off the camera when you had such better success with previous cameras. This is your video THANK YOU!!!
Awesome, sounds like a great breakthrough moment
@Gamesemag never use your monitor space for the image. Just pick a standard space like Adobe RGB. If the image reopens in PS / LR ok, it is good and the problem is with your other software. Search for my name and browser color management for a related tutorial.
Another masterpiece! Thank you. I had a good laugh when you said "looks awful", because I see a lot of footage using this kind of color grading on social media. Depending the case off course, it does look awful at times :)
Best explanation Thanks ❤
Simply GENIUS
Greg, a useful video as always. Thanks!
Great tutorial, thank you!
I will Finally someone explain it in good way thank you man
Nice video Greg. Now i'm hoping the next one will be about ICC profiles, soft Proofing and printing.
Lots to cover in there. Endless really. Any particular areas of concern / confusion for you?
@@gregbenzphotography mainly this: after soof proof and do the necessary corrections , and since i'm sending the file to a lab, i should do Edit-convert to profile, and apply the same ICC profile, right?
@@joaoquintela1575 Bottom line: I would ask your lab (but be careful to assess who you are speaking to, most labs have only a few people who really understand this, and they are typically ones making the prints, not responding to customer support questions).
Some labs will accept a file with their embedded profile, others request that you use standard working spaces. In the absence of a confident answer from your lab, I would send the file in a working RGB space. Adobe RGB is probably the best common choice. I'd rather not send ProPhoto simply because it contains so many potential unprintable colors that I worry about how they may handle out of gamut colors (the proofing profiles here can show extreme yellow converted to blue!)
If you really want to get into it, I think betaRGB or REC2020 are better options, but most labs wouldn't expect them and getting the benefits here really require understanding the details of color. These spaces include printable colors outside the Adobe RGB gamut, but not nearly so many of the unusable/imaginary colors of ProPhoto.
Aside from profile issues I'll mention below, there's a good risk that you might not be using the latest representation of the output nor giving your lab the ability to color correct or help you with out of gamut colors.
Most pro labs have ICC profiles with some surprising issues or may not be intended for actual output. Many are more than 10 years old. The out of gamut tables from one vendor are gibberish. Some apply output curves to simulate the appearance of the image under glass (ie, it isn't a profile that represents the print itself, just intended for proofing).
@@gregbenzphotography thank you very much for your time.
In fact I haver Huge problems dealing with labs here in Portugal. Wonder why?
I was looking for a more simple anser; after i made the necessary adjustment to my file, should i convert the file for the used ICC profile, should i embebed the profile? And for the Printers that dont real embebed profiles ( just like the Fuji Frontier i’m using)
@@joaoquintela1575 I added a lot of detail, but bottom line is that I would ask your lab what they need/want.
You should always embed the profile (which is the default unless you do something to remove it), whatever you use.
Perfect explanation thanks a lot!
This is awesome. I'm piecing together all the elements for a fully colour-managed enviornment. Got the hardware calibrated monitor (BenQ SW270C), the calibrator (X-Rite i1 Studio Pro) and managed to wrap my head around the concept of ICC profiles and the idea of softproofing as I plan to create prints later. This video will help me round out what I need to to know to finalize everything. Thanks!
I assume that because Lightroom is in the Adobe ecosystem that configuring it in this way would be identical to Photoshop?
Thanks.
Lightroom is different, and simpler. If your monitor is color managed / profiled, you've done the hard work.
The other option is which colorspace LR will use when sending to Photoshop or exporting. The export option offers full flexibility, but otherwise, the LR interface is limited to sRGB, AdobeRGB, and ProPhoto RGB options. Important to choose correctly here, as the is converted permanently when sending to Photoshop (unless opened as a RAW Smart Object, then you could adapt later).
If you don't know why you'd choose something else, use Adobe RGB for your layered files and use sRGB just for exporting to the web (I also have a free web sharpening utility that will do this for you: gregbenzphotography.com/photography-tips/how-to-sharpen-and-resize-photos-for-the-web-in-photoshop)
@@gregbenzphotography
Great, thanks for the advice and additional resource. I'll be sticking with AdobeRGB as my initial colourspace since that's the best my Nikon DLSR is capable of, maintaining that space throughout if I decide to make prints, and converting to SRGB for posting online.
FYI RAW has no colorspace and you can open as ProProhoto. That option in camera affects only the JPG and in-camera histogram.
@@gregbenzphotography
Ah, interesting. Wasn't aware of that. :)
Most people aren’t. Key watch out is reasonable color balance to get a fairly accurate histogram in camera, otherwise the color space and such in camera really don’t matter if you’re shooting RAW.
Hi Greg, as always it was very informative and helpful. I am signed to your news letters. Would you please consider a dodging and burning tutorial using history brush in PS. Thank you.
What do you mean in that regard? Talking about changing the image and painting back? I tend to do it non-destructively with layers instead of changing pixels.
@@gregbenzphotography Thanks for responding. Sorry, I didn't explain clearly, its a technique I saw some photographers mentioned claiming the best way to dodge and burn non destructively, but those tutorials are not available publicly, I do not want to name them here. Its using the history brush to paint highlights or shadows. Could you please guide me to the tutorial you just mentioned. Thanks so much.
Gotcha, I’m aware of that approach and some other such concepts. With history brush, you can paint on a separate layer. It’s non-destructive in a way, but there’s a lot you cannot alter. It’s more the ability to just step back.
If you’re really into dodging and burning, I show my whole process in detail I. My course, far deeper than I can go in a UA-cam video. gregbenzphotography.com/dodging-burning-master-course
Thank you very much!
Thanks for this excellent video, Greg. Color management has always been such a confusing topic. Question? How much of an effect on color does 16 bit vs 8 bit have? I've been using 16 bit ever since working with Lumenzia, but some of my older edits are in 8 bit. Would converting them to 16 bit cause any issues? Thanks again! Appreciate all you're doing!
No problem!
Bit depth affects precision, but not the range of color (ie, no effect on the size of the gamut). Basically, fewer bits just means more rounding errors in the math. Limited bits in the data would typically be seen in your image as banding in smooth areas.
Converting 8-bit docs to 16 before making further changes is helpful to avoid further loss of quality.
See here for much more info: gregbenzphotography.com/photography-tips/8-vs-16-bit-depth-photoshop
Great video Greg this is starting to make a little more since now.
I have a question, I have a BenQ monitor where I can change it to Adobe RGB, what color space should I be in photoshop if using the monitor in Adobe RGB?
Adobe RGB would be a good choice
@@gregbenzphotography Thanks for the fast response!
So if I were to edit in prophoto RGB but use my monitor in adobe rgb would that make a difference
Means you might keep or create colors which can be printed, but not clearly displayed on your monitor. I do this for more printable color, but you should soft proof your prints. Gets trickier. Good option, but Adobe is great and safe if you don’t want to go deep on technical stuff.
@@gregbenzphotography That’s really helped my understand.
Thank you Greg much appreciated 😀
Many thanks Greg. An excellent explanation. A question if I may which is related to this. In your opinion, if you are post processing an image for printing, I'm talking home photo printer like an Epson R3000 for example, what is the best working space. Is it ProPhoto or AdobeRGB? At the moment I use AdobeRGB from camera all the way through on the, possibly incorrect, understanding that my printer uses AdobeRGB as it's base, albeit modified via a custom ICC profile. The rational being that using the same colour space all the way through the final print will match what I intended assuming the monitor is calibrated, in my case my monitor handles 99% of AdobeRGB, and ICC profiles are used to print. This sacrifices some colour handling ability over ProPhoto and hence my question. Hope that makes sense and apologies if I'm betraying a complete misunderstanding of what is going on.
AdobeRGB is a great choice. ProPhoto can hold more, but requires a little more care. The benefits are small. There are a few other options that would be even better if LR more easily supported other workspaces. Adobe is a great choice.
@@gregbenzphotography Thank you Greg. Pleased I wasn't way off the mark.
Hey Greg, nice video to understand color spaces. But I still have doubts. Many wide gamut monitors ship with their own sRGB, P3 and Adobe RGB color spaces. Assuming that the monitor is factory calibrated and I do not do a hardware calibration using a colorimeter, when working in PS what should the color space of the monitor be? If I set my monitor to sRGB, it means that color gamut is clamped, so even if my PS workspace is in Prophoto does it mean that I won't observe the color change in my file? My monitor has 2 color spaces, sRGB and DCI P3, so what would be the ideal color space to work in and monitor profile to select?
The working space in PS, the embedded profile in a given image, the color gamut setting in your monitor, and the color profile set in your operating system for that monitor are all different things.
PS working space should be set to sRGB for most users. This working space is just the value Photoshop should assume when there is ambiguity - such as if the image is untagged, and most untagged images will be sRGB.
The embedded space in your image depends on how you plan to use the image or what was provided to you. This determines the gamut for the image and should be considered separately from the other factors here. For a working image, I recommend Adobe RGB, P3, ProPhoto, or Rec 2020. For an image being prepared for the web on sites where you cannot control reprocessing (such as social media), I recommend sRGB simply because the profile may be stripped and sRGB will be assumed (this is a sad scenario, but we can't control it).
Your monitor's built in color space option is meant for niche needs. I see no purpose in limiting it to sRGB in your display, that's just downgrading a wide gamut monitor to a 1990s standard. If you need to see what sRGB would look like, you can convert an image or soft proof (I wouldn't convert your image to sRGB unless it is just a copy used for final export to the web).
Your monitor profile in the OS will either be a canned profile from the manufacturer or a custom profile you set. This profile makes your display more accurate. This profile should never be used in your image or Photoshop, it's just meant for the OS. If you are doing your own custom profile, it will probably be affected any gamut clipping you choose in the monitor settings - so set that to P3 before profiling and then leave it alone.
Short answer: set PS working space to sRGB and the in-monitor setting to P3.
Just try to use LAB data instead of RGB data in coolorus and color themes, it works!
Greg, even after I ask Lumenzia to optimize my Photoshop preferences, when I open the working space settings, the "Grey" defaults to "Dot Gain 20%", not to Grey Gamma 1.8. You mentioned that Lumenzia will manage this for me when I use luminosity masks. My question is: What should the setting be for my normal workflow when I am not using luminosity masks/Lumenzia? Thank you!
For the gray space, Lumenzia optimizes it continuously as needed while you work. It does not change it when you click "optimize", as there is no single value that should be used all the time, it's more complicated than that.
When you view those settings after you've worked with Lumenzia for a bit, you should see it has changed. Try creating an L3 selection and check again. If you aren't seeing it update, please drop me an email to review the details.
Other than the considerations Lumenzia uses for luminosity masks, you should ignore the gray working space. You should not work in the gray mode and updating this setting manually when working with masks otherwise is really only feasible if all your documents use the same embedded workspace. Using a mix of sRGB and Adobe RGB wouuld be ok, since their gammas are close enough, but ProPhoto is quite different.
For more details, please see: gregbenzphotography.com/luminosity-masking/how-to-optimize-your-gray-working-space-for-better-luminosity-masks
@@gregbenzphotography Thank you for your quick reply, Greg. After I made that comment, I watched the other video that you linked in this one (same one you recommend in your comments) and it made it all clear. Thank you so much!
Greg, I had to go back and re-watch this video.. I've noticed an issue with photoshop and black and white conversions. There is a green tint in the shadows in photoshop, this doesn't show up when I open the same file in LR, or when the image is open in a plug in like NIK Silver Efx. Is this an issue with the working space (prophoto rgb) I did some searching but couldn't find a resolution..
I haven’t run into that. If you set Image / Mode to Grayscale, you’ll be free of any expected color.
@@gregbenzphotography Awesome, thanks for the super fast response Greg! Your channel is always the best for factual detail and education, my go to source :) And yes it does fix the issue!
Hi, I just try profoto and im getting faces more orange than on Adobe RGB. Something i did wrong ?
Should be the same when properly managed, skin tones wouldn’t go outside of Adobe RGB, should render the same in either. But if you have active layers, any conversion will be a mess. gregbenzphotography.com/photoshop/how-to-convert-rgb-color-space-in-photoshop/
Can a prophoto profile embedded photo be used in a web site?
Hi sir! please i have difficulties in using all colours in my Photoshop, please how can i solve this?
What do you mean?
Thanks for the video… one thing I don’t quite understand is where profotorgb and it’s wider gamut is deemed superior however, as far as I’m aware no monitor can display that gamut where as there are quite a few that can display 100% of the adobe rgb… so sure;y it is better to have your entire workflow in adobe rgb and use a 100% adobe rgb monitor…. Or am I missing something
Unprintable color which is outside Adobe RGB, ditto for monitors already, future capability, etc. Adobe RGB misses a fair bit of color already.
@@gregbenzphotography but if your monitor can't display it, prints cant handle it then what is the point, if not just a theoretical one ?
That’s my point, it contains more color than Adobe RGB that some prints and monitors CAN handle. It has some totally unusable color too, but it does expand the range of real usable color. Personally, I think Beta RGB and Rec2020 do a better job of including more real color with less excess (theoretical or fake color options).
Good Jab Sir Supar
how about for scanning Color setting i am doing my family photos and some of them are very very vintage what settings should I set my Color setting on
Whatever color they write the data in. Probably sRGB, but test to see what looks correct if you don’t find documentation what they actually encode.
@@gregbenzphotography Can you do a video on Film scanning Negatives with Color settings
@jennyminerphotography6055 unlikely, I don’t scan (been close to twenty years since) and feel in my audience do
Well, untagged looks the most realistic on my screen. Photoshop got the right guess. It's the other profiles that look fake to me where i can tell with certainty that they were photo edited
Untagged images are a recipe for significant problems down the road, I would avoid that as a quick fix.
Using 2019 photoshop..photoshop to print color is dull.. but i change the settings still not working... printer also good condition.. what's the problem sir
Could be a few things, that’s caused elsewhere or possibly you’re describing a gamut issue
@@gregbenzphotography how to solve it sir
Could be a number of things. Check your print settings in PS and the driver. I don’t have a simple answer for you.
Hey Greg, question for you:
I own a benqsw2700pt Adobe RGB monitor. I edit my photos in ProPhoto RGB, then convert to SRGB for the web. Everything looks the same from lightroom - photoshop - web, which is great. However, I am viewing it on a larger gamut display. 99% of people view my images on an SRGB display such as a tablet, phone, or SRGB monitor. When I change my monitor setting to SRGB, it looks quite dull, and it doesn't compare to my MacBook display (which is SRGB). Basically, am I viewing everything overly saturated with an adobe RGB monitor? or is the SRGB setting on my monitor not accurate?
I would use soft proofing or convert to view that rather than changing monitor settings. Anytime you change monitor settings, you’re introducing a lot of change and probably need to create a new profile for the current calibration.
@@gregbenzphotography that all makes sense. I recalibrated my monitor using SRGB, and the display is practically the exact same as when I had it set (and calibrated) at Adobe RGB. That's a big relief.
Should be the same other than colors out of sRGB gamut
Hi Eric
I to have a Benq monitor, do you change your monitor to Adobe RGB to edit your photos? this is all new to me and trying to get my head around it!
I'm only 8 minutes in to this but have a question: If my print lab (and most print labs) only print in sRGB, why edit in the others?
Good labs support better now, good monitors too, and all this will increase over time. Editing with a small gamut throws away the option to do better later.
Surely this is all dependent on your monitor? If you're working in the Adobe RGB colour space and you're monitor is only an sRGB monitor, it will only show the range of colour that the monitor is capable of displaying. It's like watching a Blu ray film on a standard definition TV, you won't see the film in HD.
It will affect what you see at that moment, yes. But these choices affect what you may later. If you edit on sRGB on an sRGB monitor, you’re losing the ability to see more color in a print or on another screen. You’re also losing the ability to control the conversion into sRGB, which can be improved with advanced techniques.
The main premise of profiles is to improve color across multiple devices. Back in the early 90s when people weren’t sharing files and doing their own prints, “closed loop” color management was done without profiles. It was in many ways much simpler because you just optimized for what you saw. But it falls apart when you introduce more screens or someone else’s printer, etc.
how do you get Lumenzia in the first place?
gregbenzphotography.com/lumenzia
I want to ask...is it wrong to hack or my black ink doesn't work anymore because it's broken...so how do I adjust the color in Photoshop so I can produce black again when I print my banner please help🙏🙏
Not sure what you mean, can you provide more detail? You're asking something much more complicated than probably some simple checkbox.
@@gregbenzphotography I ask, how can we produce black when the banner is printed? even though the printhead on the machine is no longer working......how do you combine colors to produce black when printing banners?
I don’t understand your question. Sounds very specific to your hardware /needs, not sure I can help.
This is very interesting... I just wish I wasn’t colorblind! I can’t see any kind of difference between the ProPhoto profile and sRGB in your examples! You alluded to a pretty big change, I just can’t see it. Obviously, this isn’t your fault at all! I just thought you might be interested in my point of view with my specific visual handicap!
Could be your monitor. Try adding a strong saturation adjustment layer to a colorful ProPhoto image and then convert to sRGB to play with it.
@@gregbenzphotography sRGB is actually preferred.
Sometimes, Depends
How to get my phone back in color
You are wrong about sRGB. It carry's more color information.
Not following. It’s pretty much the smallest working RGB color space in use.
You looks like David Guetta!
A great tutorial. Thank you.