There's a reason "don't shoot the messenger" is a well known phrase Edit: guys, the phrase literally used to mean "messengers are a neutral party with diplomatic immunity and killing them will start a war". Something holding a different meaning in the modern day doesn't erase the fact that the original meaning was vastly different. Do you shake people's hands to make sure they don't have a knife hidden up their sleeve? No! But that's why we started doing that, to check for concealed weapons. It wasn't always just a greeting, it has historical meaning that makes sense in the context of the time. Humans used to be as ruthless as animals, and the terrible things they did got repeatedly watered down over time until it became totally benign.
Most recent case I've heard of, the messenger got the bullets pulled out of his head and traveled through the Mojave to get payback on the checkered prick
By refusing to kill them he basically made the Spartans/Greeks think that the gods were really mad at them. This was fucking psychological warfare at its finest
@@maxravenwood3877 well thanks, that was nothing but a parody of the Bart Simpson catchphrase: "Eat my shorts" (in italian is "Ciucciati il calzino"), but since there weren't any shorts at the time, sandals were a great substitute.
I have to wonder what those two Spartan soldiers thought after being sent away. "Well, on the one hand, we're not dead. So, I guess that's kind of a plus." "Yeah, but on the other hand, we were specifically sent here to be sacrificed. So if we return to Sparta, they'll be pissed." "Huh... Well, I guess we live here now. Wonder what the food's like..."
I think you don't understand Spartan culture, being killed by an enemy was a great honour. Being send away alive and unharmed would have been the modern equivalent of having their eyes gouged, hands and tongues removed and covered in pig excrement. To the Spartans at least, to Xerxes he was just being honourable.
I never read any sources saying that he laughed but that he sent them back to Sparta basically saying “While what you’ve done was terrible, I’m not going to alleviate your guilt by stooping to your barbaric level”
@@DJuuJ To say that the Spartans fight half naked, that they don't even have money to provide their *best* troops, the elite royal bodyguard unit, with armour is more insulting to Spartans than anything else.
@@mateoUR2121 true. That's arguably more barbaric than killing a couple people. The greeks were weird though, razing cities was a norm back then, yet it seems it was more frowned upon to "shoot the messenger"
@@enclaveherewhyisntyourvide3089not really, they lost in salamina and Platea, that's true. But the objective of the war for the persians was punish the greeks for interfering in the anatolian greek cities that were under the persian empire. After the war Persia changed his methods and used the spartans as a proxy war with Athens. In the end the greek only achieve a great victory against Persian with Alexander the great
Maybe, but people yearn for freedom and any idea of independence even peaceful was met with harsh punishment, which led to more and more cultures wanting freedom from them.
@@volcatybor3204 the only thing that greece didn't have in common with persia was the fact that one of their cities could vote for their king,spartans literally sacrificed their kids if they were weak while being a newborn and they killed random slaves while training,when the Greeks sacrificed women for their oracles and gods,Persian women managed businesses and could gain ranks within the court,the capital of Persia "Persepolis" was made by volounteers who were paid fairly,if a Persian Woman lost her Husband at war,the government would give her enough money and rations that she could move on without her husband without any problems,I'm not saying that persia was PERFECT,any kind of revolts and rebellions were faced with violence,just like Ionia but living in GREECE was much more harder than living in PERSIA at the time.
@SorenTheMagi I mean, I'm of the mind that the Ionian revolt was stupid and hubristic. The greeks should have been friends with the Persians. They were not bad masters. Human sacrifice in Greece was not that common and was frowned upon in the majority of the states. The biggest issue is that each greek city state had different cultures, so it's hard to make sweeping statements about Greece as a whole at that period. I'll never defend the Spartans they had a certain lifestyle that even other greeks despised. The problem was the future satrap of Europe, Mardonius led a Razing campaign on the eastern greeks and Athens after the revolt. The greeks had to fight because that's what they thought was coming to mainland Greece Also if you want the true human sacrifices look at Carthage.
Honestly, a pretty good reaction from Xerxes. The movie also portrays him as way worse than he was. He had something that other empires of the time didn’t: religious tolerance.
@@Jebu911 no they weren't, they were huge fans of slaves as well. the big difference was the persians were more attracted to barn animals than other men.
I would assume a rumor would have spread throughout the entirety of persia after this saying that the spartans are just insane. First they Dispatch the ambassador we sent to them , and then they send us 2 so we do the same to keep things equal? What is wrong with these people. It's is there something in their food supply? Is it like A grain mold or something? why are these people this crazy. ? You dispatched one of our messengers. Why would you think sending 2 of yours to us? Is somehow going to even the books. I mean , i'm not sure if the spartans understand even basic math but that's not how it works.
you see this actually would put the gods on the spartans side as refusing a request to be killed was a great offense to the gods (especially the war ones)
@@sink5321 Now, is it not convenient that you can victimize a group and when this victimization is perceived as an advantage you can flip the script and victimize yourself?. Like, as a member of the alphabet mafia myself this is a hard thing to say, but the Spartans were tripping hard.
@@sink5321lucky for the Persians, they only believe in 2 gods, and only 1 of them is worth worshiping, and he is not a big fan of violence and human sacrifice
I know the movie didn't really handle that well but wasn't there a reason he killed the messenger also why wait that long to declare war or any sort of invasion
Ok Lets draw the line at Calling Leonidas a Karen. The messager movie or real life should pass a message and go, this one and i imagine many others in history tried something else, talking smack to a spartan can only end one way, so if you wanted hostilities you might send a messanger to provoke, this one tried to intimidate them into surrender
It's way more complicated than that. Shoukd the Ionians have revolted? Probably not. Should athens have helped? Maybe Ionians were greek. Should the greeks have burned Sardis? No. Should the Persians have launched a massive retaliation campaign turning entire populations of islands into slaves? No. Should the spartans killed the messengers so that sparta could never offer peace in fear of what I mentioned just above? Probably not. The Persians and greeks should have been good friends but Hubris, Ambition and posturing are what drive humans.
Spartans weren't great people but the Greek city states were right to defend themselves from a foreign invader. Just cause he was tolerant and free slaves doesn't mean his conquests weren't bloody and awful in their own way. In the end it's the ancient world and we probably shouldn't idealize either party
Makes sense from Xerxes perspective if he also believed in devine protection for envoys. He believes he has a devine advantage over the Spartans. Why would you give that up for slaying two enemies?
I an not aware about the Zoroastrian concept, but it would certainly help him with PR stuff. Afterall, there's a reason why of the hundreds of different city states, only 30 resisted the Persians.
@@Progamermove_2003 A big part of it was also that (unlike the greeks) the Persian empire was actually very chill towards the places they conquered and otherwise absorbed. Persia was the first syncretic empire in history.
@@SohanDsouzaThomas Jefferson initially wrote against slavery in the constitution but he had to remove it because he didn't want a civil war. The founding fathers treated their slaves well
TrEatEd tHeIr SlaVeS wElL. You can't own a human being and "treat them well". The very act is cruel and inhumane. Also how would you know? No way in hell would the founding fathers say "ah yes, we treat other human beings terribly. Thus we should lead this country". Not even acknowledging all the stories of enslaved people that would never be remembered by time like the founding father's were Just a bad take.
Can you confirm how much he was coping/seething at the sight of his massive navy getting annihilated by the smaller and less numerous Greek ships at the battle of Salamis?
@@Atlas_high-gamingHe defeated the Spartans at Thermopylae, conquered Attica, and sacked Athens. Then got handed an L by a united greece. Why meatride a dead society?
@@TheDarkMaster312 defeated? You mean ambushed the king and his royale guard on their walk? Persia never defeated any spartan army. To conquer is to hold. And mostly to set history right. Funny how you see that as "meatriding", sorry to tell ya buddy but no your people aren't the continuation of Persia.
@@Atlas_high-gaming @Atlas_high-gaming A W is a W, I don't know what you think I am but you're making a lot of assumptions buddy, maybe you should have a seat and catch some sun because you're freezing over there in your hole.
@@Atlas_high-gamingForgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't Artaxerxes the one who was conquered by Alexander the Great? If so, then Xerxes did hold it for his lifetime.
You are more on the nose than you Even realize. I have witnessed world of warcraft groups that would literally hold spartan style inspections before raids.
He could’ve been worse, but he captured and razed Athens in the war against Greece which unfortunately led to the burning of Persepolis under Alexander as ‘retribution.’ But conquered people were allowed to keep their customs and religions so long as they obeyed Persian rulers + paid taxes.
@@ripvanwinkle532 The closest to an Ancient ruler that I would see as ‘good’ are the two Antonines of Rome. Pius had the most peaceful approach to Roman administration and Marcus preferred to emulate philosophers over Augustus or Julius. But, they were still Emperors. These are just ones that are less likely to have us beheaded for stepping on their toes accidentally.
If I'm not mistaken, Sparta did invest a lot on defensive forts to defend their area of influence, which does not include Athens Edit: Since Persia's main target is probably Athens because Athens support Persia's enemy before the Greco-Persia war, Sparta probably did expect just that
Persia's main target was Athens and Eritrea. Yes the messenger tried to display Persian strength, but it's more likely that they would've come to some sort of diplomatic agreement that guaranteed Sparta's non involvement than anything else.
Greece had wealth and power, but the iranian heartland already had more of that than all of greece. You are overstating how important greece was geopolitically at the time. If you wanted eastern trade then persia, egypt, and the somali coast were the hotspots. Western trade included greece but was less lucrative.
I think he's probably well represented by actual history. My understanding of actual history was that the Persian Empire was one of the more tolerant and humane empires of the day. On the other hand, the Spartans were the kind of warrior culture people can admire from afar but would hate and detest if you had them on your border. The movie 300 should be taken as the imagination of a very young man who is hearing the embellished story of Leonidas.
@@KiwiImpactSaint The non-Hellenized version of Xerxes is Khshayarsa, where the Kh-beginning is a harsh H-sound, kind of resemblent of how French often pronounces R. The Hebrew version of the name is hence more faithful to the Persian form than the Greek is.
By the time the romans mattered the spartans didnt even exist the spartans were annexed by achaea in 192 bc the romans didnt have control over greece until 146 bc. But yeah the spartans had fallen far feom glory from being one of the biggest and strongest city states to being a backwater village no one really cared about.
@@isaackellogg3493 Isn’t Sparta considered the first democracy though? And they were just a militaristic society, plenty of other nations could be considered closer.
His main target was Athens and Eritrea (who had supported a previous rebellion against the Persian rule). And seeing how Sparta was further south from both, it's more likely that he would've tried to come to a diplomatic agreement with them (at least for the time being).
@@christopherg2347 I hope you realise that Persian emperor had governers, military vassals, satraps etc. who worked under him. If you could murder a simple harmless messenger who should NOT be harmed according to the diplomatic conventions, than don't your think that his officers would've feared for their lives and started a rebellion? He did what any wise ruler should have done, at least in this one instance.
It was not Leonidas who killed the ambassadors, it was his predecessor who did the deed among other crimes that freaked out the Spartans and they basically "Epstein'ed" him. Leonidas was the poor schmuck who inherited the mess.
@@petrospetromixos6962 Whoever murdered the messengers who were *not* supposed to be harmed by the conventions of the time more or less guaranteed the war with the Persians. That person, whether it was Leonidas or not, couldn't possibly be a hero. My opinion would've been different if Sparta lie to the north of Athens and Eritrea (the main target of the Persians). But being further to the south, it makes more sense to assume that the Persians would've tried to approach a diplomatic solution with them.
@@Progamermove_2003 The Persians were coming they already had asked for earth and water, being subservient is just pathetic. The Spartans send the two men not to make peace but to fix an injustice as they viewed it,dont forget they were very religious they didnt go to Marathon in time because it was a religious celebration were they werent supposed to fight ,in the movie they used that celebration case in the battle of Thermopiles instead of Marathon
Perfect example of how perspective and every day life concepts and morals changes throughout history. It doesn’t justify any bs lol but this man literally wouldn’t kill his enemies out of spite. Wild
Thats why they don't tell you the other side in history, frequently they were the more likable ones. For example, the crusaders your profile name comes from. They don't tell you much about the aftermath of the crusades or the people they were fighting, because the muslim empires gave religious freedom to basically everyone and was overall kinder. The crusaders killed even fellow christians, and betrayed their roman allies completely.
@@resentfuldragon Lmao, the Ottomans granted "religious freedom", in that they had to pay a tax for belonging to their faith, the other ones killed, or converted every single member of another faith they conquered, except merchants, and advisors, of the Jewish faith, who were a big part of their economies. The Crusades were about weakening Islam as a polity, they had nothing to do with actually spreading the faith, of course, the crusaders didn't know that.
@@resentfuldragon Anyway, modern media constantly talks of how evil the crusades were, and how "benevolent" the Muslims were at the time. It's not some hidden fact of history.
@@resentfuldragon ¨People always forget that the cursaders raided Croatia...A christain nation..Why? Because they needed money...Search siege of zadar (1202)...
to achaemenids, greeks were just those fragmented people in the west that sometimes made trouble by invading its border cities. schythians were a more important problem. But for almost all of its existence, achaemenid empire had no serious threat or rival up until the last moment when alexander overthrew them. But for greeks, things were different, achaemenids were the main reason some kind of sense of unity grew between them and they kinda kick started hellenic and maybe to more extend, western identity.
Depends when, they did enslaved thousands and suppress rebellions everywhere, while the spartans only enslaved the iloti, but it was the norm at the time, so about the same
Not sure that happened IRL anyway the moment the Persians arrived the ridiculously huge Spartan slave population would rise up and fight for Persia they actually used that tactic a bunch in previous conquests
The Spartan "If" was to Philip II King of Macedonia the dad of Alexander, The king proceeded to invade Laconia, Philip II of Macedon *did* invade Sparta. He reworked Peloponnesian politics against the Spartans and seized some of their land and the Spartans did nothing because like Alfie Allen in John Wick, they can do nothing.
Persian was very underrated Empire, the fact that their emperor's are highly educated and mannered. The fact that they have banned slavery since their religion believes about equality to all human being... I just couldn't understand how this ahead of its time Empire was seen as barbaric and dark once... World would be different from now without Persian. Christianity Islam would not exist if Persia didn't allow Jews to come back to their homeland.
@@OrthoKarter A huge chunk of the Greeks were still under Persian rule. Your Macedonian "empire" lasted less than 10 years because of your sheer incompetence in administration and then you got conquered and became twinks for the Romans for a 1000 years while Persia just made new empires lmao
Conquest could be justified by the standards of THAT time. Not ours. But what Sparta did was barbaric EVEN according to the nations of that time. Sparta also understood this which is the point of the sacrifice.
I love the idea of them sheepishly coming back to Sparta everyone else going “what happened? Why are you here?” And the two soldiers just going “he said no :(“
Wow! That's a really cool history lesson. Thank you. Setting that in the movie, I just thought, "Great Leonidis, now the water supply is poisoned!" Great leadership!
"no man, persian or greek, no man threatens a messenger" "you bring the severed heads of kings to MY city steps, you insult my queen, you threaten my people with slavery and DEATH!" "This is blasphemy, THIS IS MADNESS!" [insert sparta remix]
Silly Spartans kicks are NOT for diplomatic ambassadors. Check out more on The Battle of Thermopylae here: ua-cam.com/video/FwitONWEgsk/v-deo.html !
First reply
Sometimes you dont have a well to throw embassadors out so you gotta throw them out the window instead
Why is the Greek darker than the Persian?
are you americanising again extra?
@@stanisawzokiewski3308 How many persians you know?
@@kpfard I know Greeks and they arent that dark.
Spartan 1: please kill me
King: nope, you two will be honoured guest and will be treated well
Spartan 2: F***
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@SordidusFellatioalso your adopted dont worry
@SordidusFellatio"I am a generous god."
"what happens now?"
And the debt remained unpaid.
It’s actually better than that. Refusing to kill those two messengers in retaliation was itself a massive insult.
Why
@@freshrockpapa-e7799 Proves those two Spartans are not even worth the lives of his messengers.
@@freshrockpapa-e7799in a way it says that “we will not appease your gods”
Thank you captain obvious. The video already said that lol
@@secretunknown253 It never did lol, watch that part again to jog your memory ig
There's a reason "don't shoot the messenger" is a well known phrase
Edit: guys, the phrase literally used to mean "messengers are a neutral party with diplomatic immunity and killing them will start a war". Something holding a different meaning in the modern day doesn't erase the fact that the original meaning was vastly different. Do you shake people's hands to make sure they don't have a knife hidden up their sleeve? No! But that's why we started doing that, to check for concealed weapons. It wasn't always just a greeting, it has historical meaning that makes sense in the context of the time. Humans used to be as ruthless as animals, and the terrible things they did got repeatedly watered down over time until it became totally benign.
Wow!
@@yodamaster757this isn’t the reason
It’s A reason tho
It uses a really big reverse bullet. You go really fast towards the bullet standing still
"don't kick the messenger into a well"
Most recent case I've heard of, the messenger got the bullets pulled out of his head and traveled through the Mojave to get payback on the checkered prick
Wow. That's gotta be the biggest slap to the face Xerxes could've given to the Spartans. I kinda respect that.
@@janus3555Persia won the battle of the Thermopiles though
@@apvtethic8818 After being absolutely destroyed by the small group of Spartans. They later lost the war shortly after against Greece.
@janus3555
And unfortunately the world has had to deal with the ramifications of baby rapers being the bedrock of western civilization ever since.
@@apvtethic8818SJWs be like:
@@janus3555300 wasn't a documentary. That "small group" didn't do as much as you think 😂
"This is Persia. Go home."
greece >>>>
@@OrthoKarter🤣🤣🤣 as xerxes said
Sums it up pretty nicely actually
😂😂😂😂
@@OrthoKarter thanks bro this joke made my day
The two Spartans: "Please execute us"
Xerxes: "Why y'all so weird bro"
Hahaha
Tee hee
Xerxes: "That lot is weird as hell!"
When a masochist says, _hurt me,_ the cruelest thing a sadist can do is say, _no._
Gets betrayed and killed 💀
Spartans: We come here as sacrifices
Xerxes: *nuh uh*
Yu uh
Nuh uh
Da faq you mean Nu uh
WHAT DO YOU MEAN NUH UH!?!?!?!
Nuh uhhh ☝️
That face of xerxes was a funniest thing I seen in extra history so far
I wish he did that irl
Might I suggest the queen of England in odins gettup as a strong contender? I agree tho
Thst frames style was lifted from other art style/meme. Probably why it was funnier then the otherwise generic style they use.
By refusing to kill them he basically made the Spartans/Greeks think that the gods were really mad at them. This was fucking psychological warfare at its finest
No he didn't, you would be silly to think the Greeks thought another man knew what the gods wanted. You clearly don't understand Greek myth.
@@Atlas_high-gaming🥸
@@randomboys1000 👍
It’s pretty out of character for the Olympians to not be biased towards the Greeks
@@notproductiveproductions3504if anything I got the feeling the Olympians didn't like anyone
The masochist says to the sadist, "Hurt me."
The sadist leans over and says, "No."
Love that joke!
Sounds like a Watchmen reference.
The vampire laments as he prays for the sun. Iykyk
Sharp as a clever
Now what if the masochist likes all forms of humiliation?
I believe that xerxes must have told the two Spartans "THIS IS... a joke" "go back home and tell Leonidas: eat my sandals"
Eat my sandals might be my new favorite insult. Just yesterday I was asking my sister about a more family friendly line
@@maxravenwood3877 well thanks, that was nothing but a parody of the Bart Simpson catchphrase: "Eat my shorts" (in italian is "Ciucciati il calzino"), but since there weren't any shorts at the time, sandals were a great substitute.
these 1096 likes, will not be "Persian soldiers of xerxes"!
now they are 4708 likes.
@@maxravenwood3877it also would suck worse because of that kind of sandle slime that builds up.
Xerxes : Double it and pass it to the next person.
باحال بود👍
Double it and give it to the next person lmao
Lmaoo
Bro💀💀
Lol
the Spartans: *kill me*
Xerxes: "later"
"Where was I...here we go..."
Should I be awake for this?
Hehe, no. But as long as you are could you open Greece's waters for a bit? I can't seem to....
@@jonathanchan7896 Ahah, well, no, but seeing as you are, would you mind holding open your ribcage for me? I can't seem to-
Awwe dont be such a baby
Ribs grow back
I have to wonder what those two Spartan soldiers thought after being sent away.
"Well, on the one hand, we're not dead. So, I guess that's kind of a plus."
"Yeah, but on the other hand, we were specifically sent here to be sacrificed. So if we return to Sparta, they'll be pissed."
"Huh... Well, I guess we live here now. Wonder what the food's like..."
Sounds like the premise for a hilarious buddy comedy
Meet the Spartans: Prequel
@@reillycurran8508 Statcus and Crashus in Two broke Greeks.
@@bigmanlettuce4388ROFLLLLLLL that's gold
I think you don't understand Spartan culture, being killed by an enemy was a great honour. Being send away alive and unharmed would have been the modern equivalent of having their eyes gouged, hands and tongues removed and covered in pig excrement. To the Spartans at least, to Xerxes he was just being honourable.
>Kills messenger
>Gets threatened to get invaded
Damn must be divine punishment, not like we killed their diplomat
the past is a different country
and greece is a different country
@@BananaMike780ok Sam O’nella
After that war, before the next war
Lol
lmao.
You see things in a different order mate.
Diplomat came to DEMAND earth and water. Sparta does not do demands from foreigners
I never read any sources saying that he laughed but that he sent them back to Sparta basically saying “While what you’ve done was terrible, I’m not going to alleviate your guilt by stooping to your barbaric level”
Based
I can respect it honestly
Say that to the creators of 300.
@@Progamermove_2003 nooooo, don't ruin the fantasy pls, we want buff half naked spartans fighting thousands of faceless persian minions 😭😭😭😭😭😭
@@DJuuJ To say that the Spartans fight half naked, that they don't even have money to provide their *best* troops, the elite royal bodyguard unit, with armour is more insulting to Spartans than anything else.
They absolutely humiliated the spartans by not killing their messengers. They essentially stated they would not stoop to their barbaric levels
Dude xerxes destroyes the entre city of Athens lol.
And then they lost LMFAO
@@mateoUR2121 true. That's arguably more barbaric than killing a couple people. The greeks were weird though, razing cities was a norm back then, yet it seems it was more frowned upon to "shoot the messenger"
@@enclaveherewhyisntyourvide3089not really, they lost in salamina and Platea, that's true. But the objective of the war for the persians was punish the greeks for interfering in the anatolian greek cities that were under the persian empire. After the war Persia changed his methods and used the spartans as a proxy war with Athens.
In the end the greek only achieve a great victory against Persian with Alexander the great
@@pablofernandez-pacheco3224 "We may have had a massive military defeat but we won a few times too so ehh.."
Xerxes was actually a really chill dude. Any country he annexed into his empire was free to continue their own cultural and religious practices.
Did he conquer any other countries except greece?
@@SorenTheMagi Egypt, Macedonia, and Thessaly. His father conquered even more, though.
Maybe, but people yearn for freedom and any idea of independence even peaceful was met with harsh punishment, which led to more and more cultures wanting freedom from them.
@@volcatybor3204 the only thing that greece didn't have in common with persia was the fact that one of their cities could vote for their king,spartans literally sacrificed their kids if they were weak while being a newborn and they killed random slaves while training,when the Greeks sacrificed women for their oracles and gods,Persian women managed businesses and could gain ranks within the court,the capital of Persia "Persepolis" was made by volounteers who were paid fairly,if a Persian Woman lost her Husband at war,the government would give her enough money and rations that she could move on without her husband without any problems,I'm not saying that persia was PERFECT,any kind of revolts and rebellions were faced with violence,just like Ionia but living in GREECE was much more harder than living in PERSIA at the time.
@SorenTheMagi
I mean, I'm of the mind that the Ionian revolt was stupid and hubristic. The greeks should have been friends with the Persians. They were not bad masters.
Human sacrifice in Greece was not that common and was frowned upon in the majority of the states. The biggest issue is that each greek city state had different cultures, so it's hard to make sweeping statements about Greece as a whole at that period.
I'll never defend the Spartans they had a certain lifestyle that even other greeks despised.
The problem was the future satrap of Europe, Mardonius led a Razing campaign on the eastern greeks and Athens after the revolt. The greeks had to fight because that's what they thought was coming to mainland Greece
Also if you want the true human sacrifices look at Carthage.
Honestly, a pretty good reaction from Xerxes. The movie also portrays him as way worse than he was. He had something that other empires of the time didn’t: religious tolerance.
Persians are prety chill for most of history
...indeed...!
...Sparta...a country that declares civil-war to its people's mayority, the helots, on a yearly base...?
Which other empire of the time didn’t have religious tolerance?
@@BoxStudioExecutive slavery was banned in the Achaemenid Empire and women had actual rights something completely alien to Greeks
@@essaadeel3676 You didn't answer my question. Why are you bringing up completely irrelevant topics?
he literally hit them with "we don't do that here"😅
I mean Persians were civilized compared to the slaver spartans.
@@Jebu911 no they weren't, they were huge fans of slaves as well. the big difference was the persians were more attracted to barn animals than other men.
Spartan 1" kill us as a peace offer "
king "aw hell naw bro, wtf is wrong with You"
I would assume a rumor would have spread throughout the entirety of persia after this saying that the spartans are just insane. First they Dispatch the ambassador we sent to them , and then they send us 2 so we do the same to keep things equal? What is wrong with these people. It's is there something in their food supply? Is it like A grain mold or something? why are these people this crazy. ? You dispatched one of our messengers. Why would you think sending 2 of yours to us? Is somehow going to even the books. I mean , i'm not sure if the spartans understand even basic math but that's not how it works.
"but Sir you need to kill us to bring justice"
lmao- he said- unlucky
Bro help me. Where's this meme from.
Ik its the "lol -he said- lmao." Meme but like, idk its origin
@@Lee-jt4hz frog and the scorpion
“But sir the gods-“
“Skill issue” he said “get ratioed”
@@ArchbishopOfPain-mv6hiratio'd in terms of numbers of soldiers, ratio'd the Persian with how many of whose corpses filled that pass
"You want me to allow you to caveat your way out of divine retribution?, no way, jog off"
"You seek forgiveness where i seek retribution."
🤣🤣🤣
you see this actually would put the gods on the spartans side as refusing a request to be killed was a great offense to the gods (especially the war ones)
@@sink5321
Now, is it not convenient that you can victimize a group and when this victimization is perceived as an advantage you can flip the script and victimize yourself?. Like, as a member of the alphabet mafia myself this is a hard thing to say, but the Spartans were tripping hard.
@@sink5321lucky for the Persians, they only believe in 2 gods, and only 1 of them is worth worshiping, and he is not a big fan of violence and human sacrifice
Killing a messenger is one of THE dumbest moves a politician in any time period could make.
Vlad cepesh left The chat😂
Spartans were pretty dumb, so checks out.
@@CitizynKing fair enough.
@@CitizynKingwell you not wrong 😂
I know the movie didn't really handle that well but wasn't there a reason he killed the messenger also why wait that long to declare war or any sort of invasion
Leonidas killing the messenger is the most Karen move. You wouldn’t blame the cashier at a McDonald’s for the prices
But people think it was cOol
Ok Lets draw the line at Calling Leonidas a Karen. The messager movie or real life should pass a message and go, this one and i imagine many others in history tried something else, talking smack to a spartan can only end one way, so if you wanted hostilities you might send a messanger to provoke, this one tried to intimidate them into surrender
Yeah but you would if he spat on your food
They still do blame the McDonald’s cashier lol
profligate refused to watch his tongue, what'd he expect?
The Narrative changes when you realize Xerces was not the villain.
It's way more complicated than that.
Shoukd the Ionians have revolted? Probably not.
Should athens have helped? Maybe Ionians were greek.
Should the greeks have burned Sardis? No.
Should the Persians have launched a massive retaliation campaign turning entire populations of islands into slaves? No.
Should the spartans killed the messengers so that sparta could never offer peace in fear of what I mentioned just above? Probably not.
The Persians and greeks should have been good friends but Hubris, Ambition and posturing are what drive humans.
Debatable
Spartans weren't great people but the Greek city states were right to defend themselves from a foreign invader. Just cause he was tolerant and free slaves doesn't mean his conquests weren't bloody and awful in their own way. In the end it's the ancient world and we probably shouldn't idealize either party
@@musicalDrebin Xerxes invaded because athens staged a rebellion in Asia minor. The persian came to punish them
@@rafsanstudent3792 no that was Dauris, Xerxes father, that tried to punish Athens for Asia Minor. That happened YEARS before.
Makes sense from Xerxes perspective if he also believed in devine protection for envoys. He believes he has a devine advantage over the Spartans. Why would you give that up for slaying two enemies?
I an not aware about the Zoroastrian concept, but it would certainly help him with PR stuff. Afterall, there's a reason why of the hundreds of different city states, only 30 resisted the Persians.
Its all ridiculous and most of it is made up.
It didn’t help in the end
@@Progamermove_2003 A big part of it was also that (unlike the greeks) the Persian empire was actually very chill towards the places they conquered and otherwise absorbed. Persia was the first syncretic empire in history.
Its crazy to think how "THIS IS SPARTA" became an iconic meme in 2000s
I guess spartans didnt predict we will all laugh at these 3 words in basements of our moms
Bro stfu, that's not even funny
Why are you everywhere!?
@@SrumDillyDumiousI just send a shadow clone. Do the math
Bot
Not only did he laugh, he treated them as royal and exulted guests, completley outclassing the brutality shown to his ambassador
"...an age of free men," Leonidas told his wife Gorgo - while their slaves rolled their eyes.
A scene repeated a couple of millennia later during the American Revolution, I'm sure.
@@SohanDsouzaThomas Jefferson initially wrote against slavery in the constitution but he had to remove it because he didn't want a civil war. The founding fathers treated their slaves well
@@geochonker9052slavery is demonic either way, doesn't matter
TrEatEd tHeIr SlaVeS wElL.
You can't own a human being and "treat them well". The very act is cruel and inhumane.
Also how would you know? No way in hell would the founding fathers say "ah yes, we treat other human beings terribly. Thus we should lead this country". Not even acknowledging all the stories of enslaved people that would never be remembered by time like the founding father's were
Just a bad take.
@@geochonker9052 Such good founding fathers...
As a Persian I can confirm my boy Xerxes was laughing harder then a hyena.
Can you confirm how much he was coping/seething at the sight of his massive navy getting annihilated by the smaller and less numerous Greek ships at the battle of Salamis?
@@Atlas_high-gamingHe defeated the Spartans at Thermopylae, conquered Attica, and sacked Athens. Then got handed an L by a united greece. Why meatride a dead society?
@@TheDarkMaster312 defeated? You mean ambushed the king and his royale guard on their walk? Persia never defeated any spartan army. To conquer is to hold.
And mostly to set history right. Funny how you see that as "meatriding", sorry to tell ya buddy but no your people aren't the continuation of Persia.
@@Atlas_high-gaming @Atlas_high-gaming A W is a W, I don't know what you think I am but you're making a lot of assumptions buddy, maybe you should have a seat and catch some sun because you're freezing over there in your hole.
@@Atlas_high-gamingForgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't Artaxerxes the one who was conquered by Alexander the Great? If so, then Xerxes did hold it for his lifetime.
Sparta seems more like a WOW clan
You are more on the nose than you Even realize. I have witnessed world of warcraft groups that would literally hold spartan style inspections before raids.
Sparta was just that edgy teen from highschool
Na, They were more like Doom slayer
@@hotpopcorncake nah, doom slayer didn't exist yet at the time
@@ryla22 Nore did highschool
@@petrospetromixos6962nor did your brain
@@abdallaazzam907 Nor did yo mamma
Xerxes was actually a pretty good ruler and those under him (even conquered) were treated pretty fairly.
He could’ve been worse, but he captured and razed Athens in the war against Greece which unfortunately led to the burning of Persepolis under Alexander as ‘retribution.’
But conquered people were allowed to keep their customs and religions so long as they obeyed Persian rulers + paid taxes.
@@thenablade858 i mean athens kinda deserved it for you know being athenians. Prideful buggers. Thebes number 1!
@@thenablade858 I would say all ancient rulers would be bad people, because conquering by itself is wrong but some were less bad than others
@@ripvanwinkle532 The closest to an Ancient ruler that I would see as ‘good’ are the two Antonines of Rome. Pius had the most peaceful approach to Roman administration and Marcus preferred to emulate philosophers over Augustus or Julius.
But, they were still Emperors. These are just ones that are less likely to have us beheaded for stepping on their toes accidentally.
@ThenaBlade are you on drugs? There is literally Cyrus the great which is some what ancient father of human rights
This is the better version of:
“Kill me”
“Later”
Spartans: are you sure this will work??? I have noooo ideaaa
The biggest stunt this movie managed to pull off was making me believe, when I was a child, that the Spartan society was the better society 😅😂
It was without a doubt better than Persia. Do you even understand how vile and evil Persia was?
Lmao what did they expect. „Oh you sacrificed two dudes? Ok I’m not gonna conquer Greece now and gain immense wealth and power“
Considering Xerxes specific target was Athens, this was more the Spartans squaring a 'spiritual debt' then anything else.
If I'm not mistaken, Sparta did invest a lot on defensive forts to defend their area of influence, which does not include Athens
Edit: Since Persia's main target is probably Athens because Athens support Persia's enemy before the Greco-Persia war, Sparta probably did expect just that
It's more like their way to appease the gods
Persia's main target was Athens and Eritrea. Yes the messenger tried to display Persian strength, but it's more likely that they would've come to some sort of diplomatic agreement that guaranteed Sparta's non involvement than anything else.
Greece had wealth and power, but the iranian heartland already had more of that than all of greece.
You are overstating how important greece was geopolitically at the time.
If you wanted eastern trade then persia, egypt, and the somali coast were the hotspots.
Western trade included greece but was less lucrative.
Based Xerxes with that chad move
That's both hardcore on the Spartans and a total chad move on Xerxes.
Bro laughed 😂 he was like “These Spartans are the craziest people in the world”
Damn i didn't know Xrexes was chill like that
I still believe Xerxes is unjustly represented in history.
I think he's probably well represented by actual history. My understanding of actual history was that the Persian Empire was one of the more tolerant and humane empires of the day. On the other hand, the Spartans were the kind of warrior culture people can admire from afar but would hate and detest if you had them on your border.
The movie 300 should be taken as the imagination of a very young man who is hearing the embellished story of Leonidas.
He is portrayed OK in the Bible as a reasonable emperor. Though Jews call him King Ahasuerus.
@@KiwiImpactSaint The non-Hellenized version of Xerxes is Khshayarsa, where the Kh-beginning is a harsh H-sound, kind of resemblent of how French often pronounces R. The Hebrew version of the name is hence more faithful to the Persian form than the Greek is.
@@KiwiImpactSaint Albeit with a lot of very sexist and racist advisors and nobles
@@ThubanDraconisI believe that too.
By the time the Romans showed up in force, the Spartans were known as one of the most backwater Greek settlements.
By the time the romans mattered the spartans didnt even exist the spartans were annexed by achaea in 192 bc the romans didnt have control over greece until 146 bc. But yeah the spartans had fallen far feom glory from being one of the biggest and strongest city states to being a backwater village no one really cared about.
They were essentially the North Korea of the ancient world
@@isaackellogg3493 Isn’t Sparta considered the first democracy though? And they were just a militaristic society, plenty of other nations could be considered closer.
@@gummilad2 Athens is considered the first democracy, though except for also having two kings, Sparta’s government was essentially identical.
Thebes probably had a hand in that ;)
Xerces was like: “Nah, imma do my own way lol”
Xerxes*
@@Raine_without_the_vand don’t forget ‘own thing’*
"Why would I give up my casus belli just to murder some messenger?"
His main target was Athens and Eritrea (who had supported a previous rebellion against the Persian rule). And seeing how Sparta was further south from both, it's more likely that he would've tried to come to a diplomatic agreement with them (at least for the time being).
@@Progamermove_2003 They offered him a diplomatic solution on a silver plater. All he had to do was take it. He chose not to.
@@christopherg2347 So you're trying to say that he should've murdered the messengers instead?
@@Progamermove_2003 If he wanted peace with sparta, he would have.
They had literally travelled to him to make their deaths more convenient.
@@christopherg2347 I hope you realise that Persian emperor had governers, military vassals, satraps etc. who worked under him. If you could murder a simple harmless messenger who should NOT be harmed according to the diplomatic conventions, than don't your think that his officers would've feared for their lives and started a rebellion? He did what any wise ruler should have done, at least in this one instance.
It was not Leonidas who killed the ambassadors, it was his predecessor who did the deed among other crimes that freaked out the Spartans and they basically "Epstein'ed" him. Leonidas was the poor schmuck who inherited the mess.
If that's true, then Leonidas was indeed a hero. He inherited the mess caused by his terrible predecessor and died trying to defend his kingdom.
@@Progamermove_2003 Leonidas was hero even if he had murdered the messengers
@@petrospetromixos6962 Whoever murdered the messengers who were *not* supposed to be harmed by the conventions of the time more or less guaranteed the war with the Persians. That person, whether it was Leonidas or not, couldn't possibly be a hero.
My opinion would've been different if Sparta lie to the north of Athens and Eritrea (the main target of the Persians). But being further to the south, it makes more sense to assume that the Persians would've tried to approach a diplomatic solution with them.
@@Progamermove_2003 The Persians were coming they already had asked for earth and water, being subservient is just pathetic. The Spartans send the two men not to make peace but to fix an injustice as they viewed it,dont forget they were very religious they didnt go to Marathon in time because it was a religious celebration were they werent supposed to fight ,in the movie they used that celebration case in the battle of Thermopiles instead of Marathon
@@petrospetromixos6962 All this only to ultimately ally with the Persians in the Peloponesian war?
No one’s gonna mention how good his “this is Sparta” was?
Classic achaemenid moment.
Never stoop to your opponents level.
- Cyrus The Great (likely)
soyaemenid
Haxamanish in persian
Haksha manish in sanskrit?
@@OrthoKarterhow dare you deny the glory of the achaeamnid empire.
@@abhabh6896 After doing human sacrifice
the Geniva convention were gods back then lol
Perfect example of how perspective and every day life concepts and morals changes throughout history. It doesn’t justify any bs lol but this man literally wouldn’t kill his enemies out of spite. Wild
Spite and pettiness is a powerful drug
@@zombieoverlord5173but like all drugs it's the user that ultimately goes down
The more I learn about this conflict , more I like the Persians than Spartans
Thats why they don't tell you the other side in history, frequently they were the more likable ones.
For example, the crusaders your profile name comes from.
They don't tell you much about the aftermath of the crusades or the people they were fighting, because the muslim empires gave religious freedom to basically everyone and was overall kinder.
The crusaders killed even fellow christians, and betrayed their roman allies completely.
@@resentfuldragon Lmao, the Ottomans granted "religious freedom", in that they had to pay a tax for belonging to their faith, the other ones killed, or converted every single member of another faith they conquered, except merchants, and advisors, of the Jewish faith, who were a big part of their economies. The Crusades were about weakening Islam as a polity, they had nothing to do with actually spreading the faith, of course, the crusaders didn't know that.
@@resentfuldragon Anyway, modern media constantly talks of how evil the crusades were, and how "benevolent" the Muslims were at the time. It's not some hidden fact of history.
@@resentfuldragon ¨People always forget that the cursaders raided Croatia...A christain nation..Why? Because they needed money...Search siege of zadar (1202)...
Tbf the Spartans were particularly horrible. Nobody liked them not even the other Greeks.
The fact that he didn’t even kill them adds a whole new layer to this
"What happened next"
"Seven years later"
Pretty sure xerxis was thinking:
THESE DUDES WEIRD AS HELL
2 spartans: please destroy us
Xerexes: *blushes* The twinks are too thirsty these days.
Fatherless
🤣
Yo what?? 🤨🤨
@@Narrator06fr
😨
The emperor didn't want to give his opponents the divine protection buff
Persians were more humane than Spartans.
Yes
To be fair, that's an extremely low bar
Everybody was more humane than Spartans!
I mean, Athens was sexist (but surprisingly pro sex work?), but damn.
to achaemenids, greeks were just those fragmented people in the west that sometimes made trouble by invading its border cities. schythians were a more important problem. But for almost all of its existence, achaemenid empire had no serious threat or rival up until the last moment when alexander overthrew them.
But for greeks, things were different, achaemenids were the main reason some kind of sense of unity grew between them and they kinda kick started hellenic and maybe to more extend, western identity.
Depends when, they did enslaved thousands and suppress rebellions everywhere, while the spartans only enslaved the iloti, but it was the norm at the time, so about the same
THIS IS SPA- wait this is an ancient war crime
Wait i got 1k likes, wow
Its funny that i fixed my spelling so people look like they read it wrong lol
The city of Geneva wasn't even really a thing yet.
It is Ancient not anchent
Diplomatic and religious one.
More like Geneva suggestion
I am thinking that it has to do with the law of Xania (hospitality) you don't harm polite guests
most badass reply from sparta was the persian messengar who had to go back and give the answer: "IF"
Not sure that happened IRL anyway the moment the Persians arrived the ridiculously huge Spartan slave population would rise up and fight for Persia they actually used that tactic a bunch in previous conquests
The Spartan "If" was to Philip II King of Macedonia the dad of Alexander, The king proceeded to invade Laconia, Philip II of Macedon *did* invade Sparta. He reworked Peloponnesian politics against the Spartans and seized some of their land and the Spartans did nothing because like Alfie Allen in John Wick, they can do nothing.
300 isn't based on history but a comic book. Thats why they have goat people
There was not goat people (neither rinhoceros, no bladed arms dudes) in the Frank Miller's comic.
@@Joan1Marti ONce you're telling fiction instead of the historical record, you might as well make it VERY BLATANTLY fiction
yes but they got one thing right: persia sucks at combat and lost
@@OrthoKarter That's also an over simplification.
@@nessesaryschoolthing Yeah, but it totally changes the tone.
Imagine arguing to die for a cause then get laughed at by the enemy emperor
Imagine being a Spartan elder enjoying your sunny day and wine and seeing the messengers you send to soothe the wrath of the Gods returning to Sparta
*Spartans: Shock 😲*
*Xerxes: Rock 😎*
Must have been a good laugh that day
Spartan 1 “Guess what king!?”
King: why tf are you still alive
Persian was very underrated Empire, the fact that their emperor's are highly educated and mannered. The fact that they have banned slavery since their religion believes about equality to all human being... I just couldn't understand how this ahead of its time Empire was seen as barbaric and dark once...
World would be different from now without Persian. Christianity Islam would not exist if Persia didn't allow Jews to come back to their homeland.
Any sources?
@@zackandjessadventures6219bible, Herodotus, the Cyrus Cylinder and pretty much everything from that place back then suggests that.
@Viktor learned something new today. Found an actual source on the cyprus cylinder. Quite interesting. Thanks for that.
As an persian i am proud of my countries past
And love that they are some people acknowledging it. Persians were really ahead of their time
Persia had slaves and christianity would exsist without them. I understand that youre from there but atleast be realistic
PANR has tuned in. And if you haven't tuned into the main series, oh gosh and golly you should. The folks at Extra History have done a fantastic job.
Why thank you PANR!
@Extra History of course! You guys do great work. Least I can do to speak the facts
Either they were kind enough to not let them be sacrificed, or they just, "lmaooo, gtfo!"
Everyone knows he fell into the depths, rediscovered ancient Zonai technology, and then proceeded to stage his comeback against Leonidas.
Kohga's origin story
Xerxes: "Nah. Yall can go back. I'd rather wipe out your whole clan. Better yet tell them I'm coming. I want a challenge."
he still lost and got humiliated
@@OrthoKarter no he didn't. Not the war. He did what the Russians currently do, throw enough bodies and you'll win.
@@OrthoKarter he won 💀
@@IR.editor2500 he didnt lol, greece pushed them out and reconquered lost territory, then macedonia clapped them a few years later. cope
@@OrthoKarter A huge chunk of the Greeks were still under Persian rule. Your Macedonian "empire" lasted less than 10 years because of your sheer incompetence in administration and then you got conquered and became twinks for the Romans for a 1000 years while Persia just made new empires lmao
This mans art style needs a book
This sounds like J. Jonah Jameson laughing his head off when Peter Parker asked if he could be paid in advance.
Xerxes wanted 100% achievement, not the warp tunnel
A true completionnist
@@castrinecubique983he failed.
Fun fact: it was not just 300 Spartans but 2,300 Greeks at thermopylae which were 300 Spartans, 700 Thespians, 900 helots and 400 Thebans
He probably said something like: "you think 2 Spartan life's are worth more than an average Persian? No" 🗿
According to Thermopile, you could say 1 Spartan life is worth a few hundred Persians.
I'm not sure but I heard he said "This is Persia, go home."
spartan 1:”Kill me”
xerxes:”later”
This was seen as one the biggest mistakes of all time
And the movie says persians were barbaric in reality the spartans were lol
Real
Yes conquering someone isn’t mean at all
@@Jaco059that was kinda how you played a game at those times tho.
@@Jaco059it was also more tham 2000 years ago
Conquest could be justified by the standards of THAT time. Not ours.
But what Sparta did was barbaric EVEN according to the nations of that time. Sparta also understood this which is the point of the sacrifice.
If by "classic" you mean "memed to death years ago," then yes.
that is what that means
Just like every past and future meme
What is "classic literature" but Epic memes of ages past
Classic = memed to death. We just have new words for it.
Whoa...an ancient burn 😲
I wonder if the mesager were in the 500 army
Is no one gonna talk about how on point that impression was?
I remember there was a famous music meme that happened way back when UA-camr was in its infancy back in 2007 and 2008
"THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!" - Xerxes
I love the idea of them sheepishly coming back to Sparta everyone else going “what happened? Why are you here?” And the two soldiers just going “he said no :(“
Imagine not only volunteering to be a sacrifice, but fighting over the spot. Couldn't be me
Then getting fired for it by the person meant to kill you.
Man you really did a good impression for the quote
The “this is Sparta” is the most saliva spitting phrase I’ve ever heard
Imagine handing your life over to the enemy just for them to laugh then having to go back home and explain the plan failed and you’re alive.
It wasn't genuine 😂😂😂
It wasn't genuine 😂😂😂
Man said naw you stay on bad side of the gods. This is sparta remember 😂
Wow!
That's a really cool history lesson.
Thank you.
Setting that in the movie, I just thought, "Great Leonidis, now the water supply is poisoned!"
Great leadership!
"no man, persian or greek, no man threatens a messenger"
"you bring the severed heads of kings to MY city steps, you insult my queen, you threaten my people with slavery and DEATH!"
"This is blasphemy, THIS IS MADNESS!"
[insert sparta remix]
Later:
“You know…on second thought, that probably wasn’t the best idea.”
More evidence that the Persians were actually the good guys
Persians ftw for sure. Spartans literally went home to beat their helot slaves every single day. This man is not on your side.
There is no "good guys" in history
Even the aggressor side have complicated and opposing sides within them and so on and so forth
@@Wertsir Every kingdom and empire throughout history had slaves back then. Yes, that includes the Persian Empire
What are you on about?
@@JeyC_ Did ðey ðo?
@@JeyC_ Slavery was actually banned in the Achaemenid Empire.
“CAN A MADMAN KICK! YOU! INTO! THIS! PIT!?” - Leonidas, probably
This is why you gotta play hard to get.
"It's not like I want to be killed or anything, baka!"
"SPARTANS! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?!"
"Messengers."
Why tf killing a messanger? Those guys literally go unprotected just to give you communication, they are the most trustworthy people
I gotta know what that messenger said to piss them off in real life
Didn't take much to piss Spartans off 😅
bros literally were like "Kill me!" "No kill me!" "I'm more worthy!" "no me!"
It’s always interesting to see how different the moral codes of ancient peoples were
You gotta listen to Charlie Murphy talk about The 300 😂