19:22 Oh no they definitely need to find the time and budget to fix the traffic. I agree that we do not have a lot of traffic in our Republics but that is because, at least for me, I do not give personal cars to my citizens because of the vehicles' pathfinding issues and the personal car issue. As soon as they fix those I am certain we would all use more vehicles on the roads. Thank you bballjo for your service o7
My "Highway Building Code" now includes space between the two highway roads. running a mud road in the middle for the normal spacing works good. With this, highways look a lot more "weighty", and you can use the middle space to run bridges up in difficult spots. I now have "Highway standard" (no level intersections with the highway) and "Fast Roads" (look like the highways in video, can have cross traffic). Then the different road types according with their max speed as arterials types, connection types, etc, for a simple type of road hirarchy. The typical scenario I'm facing in my republic are sudden traffic spikes that lead to clogs (like when a CO ejeculates every vehicle at once), and this helps a lot. It's still not Cities Skylines, and for a game with such a logistic aspect I have to agree with Peter that roads are one of the most wonky aspects in game.
I personally prefer the median to be as small as possible. Generally the default spacing you get with snapping enabled is enough. I only widen the median (to accommodate a bridge for instance) only if needed. And in cities (especially in existing ones on populated maps) the median often has to be very narrow, or practically nonexistent (with 2 roads overlapping each other).
13:40 really glad you included this diamond. One of my favourite designs. This interchange test video produced the most exciting results by far so thank you for doing it.
Fantastic research, thank you. Probably anything in the '70%' range is, as you said, gonna work out based on available space (or design style preferences). Also supplemental 'not-even-once' for fans of Roundabouts in W&R - I'll admit to failing terribly any time I end up trying to make them work.
One thing I hate about single lane one-way roads are that all vehicles slow down just before going onto them for some reason. They don't do this to connected two lane one-way roads, only single lane one-way. The road doesn't even have to bend for the vehicles to slow down, best seen around 17:00 if you look at the incoming lanes in the bottom right. They slam the brakes, then continue onto the one lane road and accelerate again
yeah i wish there was a option for em not to slow down when theres no need, liek why are you givign way you are jsut straightign down a road, need a mod like cities has
@@any1aliveyou can fix this with signs, give the traffic coming on to the one way the right of way, and force the other to yield/stop Was performing updates to my roads and used this method to get traffic around the road work
I gotta say, I use roundabouts without gridlock. Yield signs. That's how real roundabouts work. I'm not sure why you are setting a priority road - place all the signs manually and it works amazingly well.
It's works fine as long as there is no way for it to overflow, and not everyone needs to pass 2/3 exits...I talked about that in the beginning, this is an experiment with evenly distributed traffic volumes, and very high traffic density...a roundabout doesn't work in this case....in other cases (most cases of use in this game) it's most likely going to be fine.
Yes I just put the priority signs on the actual roundabout section and everything essentially moves. What you might find is you may get less tonnage however for lots of vehicles at least you get higher throughput. At least that is what I have noticed
Next would be the perfect "starter" city layout that evolves to like 5-7k people in regards to traffic. I noticed already with roughly 3k people that having a central road to feed buses, hospital and the super market is able to slow down throughput of the city notably. That's why I changed the street layout basically to a one way design and have them do pretty basic roundabout to feed traffic in from one side only and have traffic coming from the opposite direction having to drive on the outer roads of the city to feed in to the main road. I noticed that buses now were able to enter and exit the city on more constant intervals and therefore distribute workers more evenly to their jobs.
Excellent video and amazingly useful experiment. Thank you! Only thing that jumps to mind is if and how much would using traffic signs and in some cases traffic lights influence the results. I have a feeling that Peter tried to fix road and traffic coding issues with the traffic signals/lights. I find that the priority, give way and stop signs work wonders (especially for roads leading to a major intersection to make the traffic more fluid), but they have their limitations obviously. Cheers and again, awesome work! 👏
If you check the links with the results in the description you will see that in general, the default without signals and signs performs better, unless things get locked (like roundabouts) and then signals and signs become a necessity. Yet, due to the nature of this experiment, which has effectively 4 even road traffic loads, the signs and signals are less useful, they work really well if you have a main route, and secondary routes. The 4 way intersection for example works excellent when you place signs, and make 1 road a priority, but the secondary road will effectively never move/empty, and your throughput looks high because of that. Meaning, this experiment is very specific for the worst case scenario, and in most situations it won't be this bad.
@@bballjo Appreciate the answer. It's quite a complex problem in real life, let alone in a video game with a few limitations, but it feels quite rewarding when you get to solve them and your vehicles are flowing through intersections. Your experiment will inspire and give ideas to many, I know it did for me. 🖖
Hi, BB, It almost looked like you did get inspiration from my highway intersection presentation on Steam, though I haven´t used traffic to test it ingame so kudos for you trying so. #1 best intersection is in Europe called "maltese cross" and IS used where all other traffic would have not been enough. I am glad that at least THAT one holds up well. There is a big fail around 14:40 with that dumbbell roundabout - due to increased length of traffic distance around those roundabouts the highway at the bottom gets stuck due to vehicles turning around at upper right corner, blocking many cars. You would need to prolong the separated part of those roads for it to be able to work. Things not covered here (and those I would love to see) are - turbo roundabout (with dedicated lanes going around to each direction; kinda hell to setup due to crossings, but should be working quite well (my guess is around 65% when signed correctly) - double-trumpet. You are great with setting up trumpets and one-way roads do actually look good on these. Now combine two of those (google the look of it on german wiki page or on my english channel) and I would think that it should be really working well in this game (70%-ish is my guess). Hope this get a sequel! :)
@@NewBuildmini parclo for this particular setup doesn´t make much sense - the whole crossroad is DELIBERATELY set up the way that has same volume of traffic between all directions alike. So symetrical crossroads give good enough answer of what is good and what is not. In real game/world a partial clovers with upgraded parts/branches do make sense as traffic volumes are unequal, but here it simply isn´t true.
@@siriusczechYou could say the same about diamond interchanges, because they aren't symmetrical either. One road is completely grade-separated, while the other road has to share space with turning cars.
The improvements mean that the worst performing junctions are doing better, and the best performing junctions have a little less throughput (less than a couple percent difference) and blocked setups, like roundabouts with slip lanes, actually can be used now.
Excellent video BB! I can use some of the intersections you presented to us as inspiration for building out my republic's interstate/motorway network. Now from what I noticed, roundabouts work okay-ish if the traffic volumes aren't too high (such as in a more rural area where there isn't too many vehicles running around), but they really do break down when having to deal with heavier traffic loads, even if set up with one lane roads to help separate out traffic. And as you mentioned, traffic would probably flow a lot better if (big if) a massive overhaul of the coding is carried out to give us additional tools to set up lanes how we want and make vehicles behave better than they currently do. With this in mind, it seems the classic diamond works pretty well given the limitations of the game for service interchanges (interstate to arterial) as well as SPUIs for areas limited on space. For cloverleafs, I may try to experiment with a German design where the ramps are on their own separate side roads off to the side of the thru-lanes, since from both experiences in CS and real life, the weaving between thru traffic and those getting on and off basically as a traffic generator. The way I could see it possibly working would be to set reduced speed limits on the "collector" roads to encourage thru traffic to continue down the lanes without the ramps, while traffic wanting to change roads would have to take the collectors.
Interesting video, it's like my tutorial map, only you made it more measurable with transportation & focused mainly on major intersections for highways. The setup sure took a long time to get right. You really built some good stuff, some could easily run better. I find the best was the one at 15:09 SPUI & 16:20 stack, i like the look of it :D Simple tips on how you can make the previous ones better. Think like pathfinding, become pathfinding & be pathfinding in the end :D that sounds weird but it's true. The vehicles are always looking for the shortest route, you must always remember that. You have to determine which way is the fastest, so be the pathfinding yourself. Best help speed limits, simply select the 70 kmh sign. Then with Q & E like lifting & lowering, you can give e.g. single lane roads a 90kmh sign, then the regular roads are faster & the pathfinding of the vehicles chooses this way. Turnoffs/ramps should always get a 70 to 90kmh restriction so that only departing vehicles use that path. Otherwise, others also like to take this "shortcut" because it is faster according to the vehicle's forecast. Single lane roads are by default faster than the normal ones. The vehicles then calculate that the big curve driving is theoretically faster than 10 kmh slower straight ahead ^^. If you build roads a bit diagonal to the road (the normal ones), you can achieve a better angle when connecting. With single-lane does not work (except with shift), unless you connect them to the middle which is also not better. & with freeway on-ramps you have to add an acceleration line. If you want it accurate & use the better angle each time when connecting. Drive the vehicles almost without speed loss on the highway, you can achieve the angle with the normal road & connect 1 lane roads to it ( with shift much easier). It helps partly also, if you use the dirt footpath & on the highway, before the coming entrance, 1-2 Nodes create. You can connect them with each other, then the right of way sign is nicer & the node is so big that sometimes vehicles also drive into the "occupied" block. Then they stop less when other vehicles are on the highway. A problem with intersections is the node, it makes sense to prevent blockades in the game. But it ensures that the traffic stalls. Because as soon as a vehicle is on the node, it is blocked like a track block with signals. Then incoming vehicles stop automatically. This is also true if you connect 2 very close nodes. as soon as one node of the two connected is occupied, the other is automatically blocked, because it is a block like trains. With 2 parallel streets that form an intersection with 4 nodes it is the same, although it is now better. To avoid this, I sometimes connect only the roads at an intersection that should also be driven in a certain direction. That prevented blocked nodes. It was improved in that respect, however, that turn lanes work better. Here is a link from a picture, you can build in the game without shift. in a bit bigger as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/02/37/51/66/1000_F_237516679_zSQYnnIjnp3g5REdL2d3yFEpTBiQi1aY.jpg here you can literally feel the purple dots(nodes) :D
nice work. thanks. I personally always trying to overbuild my interchanges just in case in future I will have more traffic, but unfortunately the game makes you use railroads and big traffic never happens to me, but in the future I will try to build some high efficient interchanges shown in the video.
Great video! The only thing I wished I had seen was a 2 single lane highways into a roundabout, I know roundabouts suck as they only use a single lane, but as they are already highways with one way lanes maybe it will make the roundabouts work better.
2 ways or 1 way into a roundabout won't make a difference... The roundabout will eventually clog itself...a solution is to make the roundabout a lot bigger, or if Peter fixes the slip lanes. Thinking of it, I technically created 2 lanes for the roundabout with the triangles...those pieces never clogged up.
@@bballjoYou could thereotically overcome that by using traffic lights. But that comes with another difficulty, because they have to be perfectly coordinated with each other to ensure traffic flows smoothly, and doesn't stop inside the roundabout. And coordination is not officially supported at the moment. I mean it is possible, but it is tricky. So in cases when roundabouts get clogged up, it's just easier to demolish it and build a traffic signal junction with dedicated lanes instead.
I work often with roundabouts with roadsigns. And they are working. I only had to build a bridge over a single roundabout to avoid some issues with other intersections. Its also a solution for small places.
Traffic rotary's will always be the clear winner. That's a Traffic circle for those who have not heard of a rotary. in my area , we call them a rotary.
I imagine that the grade-separated junctions would be a lot more efficient if there was a "merging" logic. For those unaware, currently the game treats them the same as a normal road junction, meaning cars have to wait for a gap in the traffic, even if they could've kept going without hindering highway traffic. This shouldn't be too hard to implement, the game could simply apply the "merging" logic when the angle of the joining road is smaller than a certain angle (e.g 45 degrees). Alternatively, the game could consider the time needed to perform a maneuver, and check the traffic on the priority road for an according distance. This would automatically result in a smaller checking distance on merges. Currently you can slightly get around this issue by adding a node on the priority road as close as possible to the joining road. This reduces the checking distance, making it more likely for cars to merge in front of other cars. But in some cases this leads to them stopping in the middle of the junction, with cars on the priority road clipping through them. And sometimes they end up slowing (or even stopping) the cars on the priority road.
7:30 The solution to the cloverleaf is that you need to use of one lane road between the two lane road and connect the ramps to the one lane road. So that vehicle don't turn in de middle of the road.
Thus far, my biggest republic has 12k citizens, no personal cars, and I transport everyone and things by road. I haven't had any issues running roundabouts, no signs or signals. I've found doubling up on the one-way roads going in each direction (2 lanes each for outgoing/incoming) works very well, even at 4-way intersections. Rounding out the corners helps a lot because vehicles won't bleed speed slowing down to take the sharper corner. For Roundabouts specifically, in my experience they need to have enough a circumference to allow for a decent amount of space between on/off exchanges, and turning the radiuses of the vehicles.
At 12k you're barely at the starting block of a republic...I hope you don't take any conclusions here...if you've managed to create traffic problems past a single blocked customs house, then you've done something very wrong, any road design should be sufficient at such a small population.
The bummer for some of these interchanges, like the DDI, is that they really require a synced traffic signal setup to work the way they’re supposed to, and you can’t do it in WRSR because the intersections have to be combined and they have to be close…and they can’t be. Otherwise another fun intersection to try would be the CFI. It seems like a SPUI would not exactly work properly because you can’t do protected left turns…though you could set it to let one way go at a time…which would still keep things at 3 phases. I would be interested in seeing if Texas 4-phase would work for tight diamonds…it seems like it would be tough to make work without preventing lefts during certain phases…idk.
It is possible to coordinate traffic signals in WR:SR. I actually wrote a guide about that on Reddit. In a nutshell: -All traffic lights you wish to coordinate must have a common cycle length (sum of all phase lengths). -To set an offset, use the "jump to this phase" button. This will make it so that the light will turn green for this phase at this exact moment.
i use a roundabout for connections between interstate and normal 2 way roads, its the main garbage dropoff point it sometimes gets backed up but with signage and now sliplanes it seems to work pretty good
I think the roundabout is a generally good solution in most circumstances...it's just not great for high traffic volumes... sadly, when I tried the slip lanes, everyone was avoiding the roundabout, not sure why.
@@bballjoAnd no matter the traffic volume, it's not a very good solution when the flows are not balanced. In that case, the roundabout essentially turns into a priority junction.
I want to suggest a theoretical model, quarter diamond with roundabout. It requires 4 bridges (or tunnels) and uses sort of a roundabout. All exits and intakes are on the left side. Basically, we have a highway with parallel one-way roads. Highway A(w-e) have a bridges (or a tunnel) over Highway B (n-s) roundabout (oval shaped). So, all of the sides: Awe (hwy A west-east), Aew (hwy A east-west), Bns, Bsn, Br (hwy B roundabout), Al (hwy A loop, difficult to explain) _Notice: hwy B may or may not have a shape of an actual roundabout, this is a functional roundabout or return loop._ If we go on Aw-e side we'll see the following: - bridge, one-way exit to hwy B (both directions), second bridge, one-way intake from hwy B and out. side Aew: bridge, exit to Br, intake from Br, bridge over Br, out. If we go on Bsn side we'll see the following: - intake of loop lane or Br enter, exit to hwy A (both sides), intake from hwy A (both sides), bridge exit of loop lane or Br exit, out If we go on Bns side we'll see the following: - intake of loop lane or Br enter, bridge, exit of loop lane or Br exit, out. The difficult to explain part is the road spaghetti between exits and intakes. It have following key points: - connection for intake and exit of Aew side before second bridge - connection of exit lane of Awe to exit lane of Aew after the small bridge. (side Al - hwy A loop) - disconnection of Br to Aew (to under the bridge) and Br to Awe (to after the bridge) - (optional) disconnection of Al back to Awe and Aew (for the sake of the functionality) - (optional) connection of Al to to Awe and Aew a bit before br2Aew2Awe disconnection Explanation is a bit awkward, but without pictures or at least ascii art I can't do better.
Yeah, when I read it it almost sounds like the windmill/turbine, but I know that's not what you mean... picture required. On that note, I purposely didn't go too deep into junction hybrids that use multiple traffic treatments (the elevated roundabout and dumbbell are just 2 examples of that) because the permutations are literally endless. If I get a good set of 10-20 other junctions to try (with pictures;) ) I'm happy to make a follow up with those results.
@@bballjo Where can we submit our ideas? I have just tried to make a roundabout work similarly to one near where I live by using single lanes only - each incoming road splits into 3 lanes in, each for a separate exit (1 slip lane), and 2 lanes out, one for slip lane and the other out of roundabout exit. I tried first to make it properly, but I messed up the nodes a and noticed that the game allows you to glitch 2 one-way lanes through each other, so I tried a simplified cheat version with nodes only where necessary and I'm quite positive this would perform well compared to the rest on the list, because once you set the yield signs, of which there are now only 2 (3 if you want to allow returning back where vehicle came from) per incoming road (one to join the outer lane of the roundabout and one at the end of slip lane just to remediate the issue of vehicles always going to the right lane on merge of 2 single lane roads), the traffic experiences very little "friction". I didn't want to spend a lot of time setting up the test traffic, so I just plopped the biggest vanilla bus station at each end and set up a single bus line that starts at Northern bus station and goes to the other 3 and back for every possible combination of the order and then I kept adding busses until it finally grid locked in 3/4 stations at the same time and none of the busses trying to go to the 4th being able to make it to a junction. I'm a bit torn on this cheaty approach, because I don't like cheating, but it is so far the only way I found to make multi-lane roundabouts, where vehicles actually use all lanes. BTW, have you tried enabling the "Experimental Pathfinding" in the cheat menu? I know it isn't something a common player is aware of, but it'd be nice to know if it makes any difference for dual-lane one-way roads usage of both lanes and/or for merging two single into one double one-way road.
Ideas... ideally discord. Experimental pathfinding...it's not a setting that gets saved, so you have to enable Everytime you reload the game, so it's not really a good thing to use...I may however go checkout what it does.
@@bballjo no need experimental pathfinding. Well, at the morning I can explain it better. First of all I was wrong and this is a cloverleaf. My bad. I think I'll draw the illustration today, but can't be sure beacuse of IRL issues, sorry. Construction routine: Build a single cloverleaf section but with second bridge/tunnel between curved exit and straight intake. On the other side of that second bridge/tunnel, you spin exit and intake from highway under the bridge/tunnel. To prevent crossings it should be made between bridge and second bridge/tunnel. Then (on the cloverleaf side) you connect exits/intakes from under the second bridge to the same direction ones of the cloverleaf. And then other highway need to have returning loop somehow somewhere.
Interesting. A majority of content creators seem to use the roundabout. I suppose it is understandable, its a very efficient realworld junction, the issue is with our citizens driving ability
You may need to take a look at the volume...ALL of the traffic junctions work very similar on lower traffic volumes, most of them fail with higher volumes. In this game, you will not often get past low volume traffic, and if you do, it's time to reevaluate your traffic sources.
@@bballjo perhaps I have focused too much on the spinal trunk line through my republic. I can probably reroute a lot of things to distribute them wider across the network without much rebuilding. Thanks, I'll see.if I can attack the source of the congestion instead of trying to swallow it
They are especially buggy when you try to lay them over a road with SHIFT (to get a dedicated left turn lane for instance). If you don't disable snapping before constructing, it might end up connecting to the road on it's side in it's middle.
@@NewBuildmini You have to deactivate the automatic paralelization of the road, after you have already clicked on one side before & dragged the road a bit. Then you keep the single lane right or left connection but can build the road without this strange connection bug. If you use shift, it still connects to roads or building nodes as long as the paralele build is active. You have to pay attention, visually you notice it if you pay attention, when the road wants to connect to a node or create one. So you can also build buildings without direct connection to connect with roads or just easier to build on top of each other.
An interchange that you definitely have not tested, is a traffic light intersection with dedicated lanes. It allows for there to be separate phases for through movements and for turning movements. You don't have to use 2-lane one-way roads, you can get by with just one-lane roads. (tbh there's barely any point in 2-lane one-way roads anyways).
"It is not great at using multiple lanes", "It is not good at using roundabout", "The stack performs the best", "diverging diamond intersection" - I thought it was called Soviet republic, not USA traffic today...
UA-cam suggested that video again... So, now, I'm wondering if I should put some DDIs in my last huge city :D Maybe even do a big circular highway around the city... By the way ! SPUIs can be built with bridges. I have 3 with the highway on bridges in my own republic ;) and with bridges on slopes / with the road being dug into the ground, that intersection can be really be made tiny !
Isnt the diamond essentially just a big roundabout with a bridge over the middle? I'd be very curious to see how very large roundabouts would stack up compared to the other options. I think there's a good chance they'd work much better than the tiny ones you tested.
@@MrWillNeedham a diamond is a roundabout with a single diagonal across it. Larger roundabouts...I mean these were pretty large, you can fit a few dozen vehicles on it... at what size does a roundabout become just a large detour? And the test was all done on the same footprint...so using different sizes wouldn't really be an equal test anymore.
It's not a big deal. They're only bad in cases the traffic volume is really high, or the flows on different approaches are unbalanced. I use them a lot myself, and they work well in most urban situations.
I trick I used in cities skylines was doing lane math, imagine, two lanes come in, one goes into slip lane, and the main road gets reduced to a one lane road. Further ahead when they join again, its two one lane roads joining into a 2 lane road.
@sirsuspicious1850 this test is for how WRSR handles such things. One of the best aspects of CS is how you can manage traffic, and that game is designed for it. One of the worst aspects of WRSR is how you CANNOT manage traffic like in CS...I'd guess that 90% of the things anyone does in CS don't work here, prime example: roundabouts. So bringing up something that can't work seems rather....let's say STRANGE
@@bballjo yes I know ahaha, I play both games, but what I was saying is that maybe by having a single lane road on the inside of the intersection in WRSR could make the merger go more smoothly, I haven't tried it myself so I don't know how it would go
@sirsuspicious1850 if you watch all the way to the end, you will see that I've played with that, plus if you would look at any of the documented results you would see that too... trust me I was very hopeful that at least some of the CS traffic would translate, but this game just doesn't care.
Exactly! I think Peter needs to revisit that...the TS kinda does whatever it feels like doing, same with snowplows...which is why these junctions are even more important
Danke für Deine Antwort. Die Schneepfpflüge sind nicht so "schlimm", weil nur wenige. Auch ist es von und zu den Müllverbrennungen jeweils ein riesen Stau. Was ich mal fragen wolle: bist Du ein Entwickler des Spiels oder irgendwie daran beteiligt@@bballjo
Think for your answer. There is also an endless traffic jam at the waste incinetation sites. Can this be fixed somehow? About the snowplows I don't get angry too much as there are so few. What I also wanted to ask is whether you are a developer (participant) of the game and since you use German city names, maybe you even speak German?@@bballjo
@franzschutz9833 I'm not a dev, but I know how to get a hold of them, and I help with early testing a little when features are on the internal branches.
I think, traffic jams may become a new "fix it" series, luckily a roundabout won't be the answer much, so I won't get a biffa strike...but I'm guessing there is a way to fix your traffic at the incinerator, but it's probably going to be a very custom solution I'd have to look at.
I can...but why? Trains are a lot longer, and the junctions are a lot bigger...any junction that doesn't cross will do well (cloverleaf are out) , and the volume is much more limited because they are trains...
Who knows...at this point there has already been an update...I would have tested experimental pathing, but since those settings are never saved, it wouldn't be a real playable option for me...
So workers is not very well programed for traffic? But its important for gameplay, cause of all the goods to transport, the fundament of sovjet countries. Do you thing cities skylines is better in this point?
Um...not sure how you got to that conclusion. WRSR is more than appropriate for traffic. It's your job to make smart decisions for traffic, and maybe don't try to ships large quantities of quarried stone across the map with small trucks. This test only looked at an unreasonable amount of traffic and how you can solve it, and the answer was: you can, here are some options. A recent update fixed the roundabout versions as well. Is cities skylines better? Don't take this the wrong way, but CS is the "dumb cousin" in comparison, the only thing it lets you actively manage is traffic, and I would hope it's good at the 1 thing it allows the player to use their brain for, but even then, all traffic decisions are still made by the game...WRSR gives the players much more control about all aspects, and comparing them doesn't really do either justice.
i know the problems ... life would be much more easy if there would be a "no left turn" traffic sign.... that could avoid the turnings of tracks @ completly stupid possitions
Beginning edit: pointless complaining below, I am a loser that can't commit the time to run the test in a way I consider good enough so instead I nitpick on the person who actually put in any effort lol 5:45 the vehicles on the roundabout are yielding to the ones coming in... that's not a roundabout, that's an american traffic circle and that IS bad. You need to have priority for the vehicles staying in the roundabout. The signless roundabout is a nightmare, weird, and irl most people would not realise that the priorities are not normal and would yield when joining. EDIT: it seems like disregarding signs is a theme. They are really important, keeping traffic that is fast already moving is the key. If it stopped, it can stop again. But once it's moving it shouldn't stop too fast. On the elevated "roundabout" example, the points one would have to yield without signs are: when turning left (all directions are relative to initial heading): 1 the traffic joining the circle from right 2 the traffic joining the circle from straight on 3 the traffic going through the sliplane from straight on (they would be going collisionless but they yield While with proper signage the stopping points would be 1 before entering the circle 2 merging with the sliplane from straight on 3 entering the road going left The signs shift stopping points to allow the circle to clear before vehicles can fill it back up, and allows traffic that is already up to speed on the highway to continue on. In real applications it also has to be considered that the roads will not be so balanced. Most of the traffic will be going straight on - this means that deciding which path gets the timeloss also matters in those situations - pushing it onto a more important route (straight forward) will mean that more time is lost overall when timeloss/vehicle stays equal. But in this example 2x as much traffic is coming in from the sides through the merging lane so ig in this specific instance of equal load on all paths it makes sense that the 2 merged paths have priority over the main road. But the roundabout is unexcusable. third edit: the 15:06 dumbell would have cleared if the traffic staying on the top roundabout had the priority and could leave the roundabout without having to let new traffic flow in
You could look at the full result list and see what the things you mentioned actually did... spoiler, it unlocks the roundabout, but it still doesn't perform well. Also, I'm not sure if you understood that I was testing traffic flow in this game...it looks like a roundabout, but traffic flow is highly limited because of pathfinding in the game, so I'm not testing roundabouts, in testing traffic flow in the game. Lastly, American roundabouts have the same rules as anywhere else in the world, Americans just ignore those rules, so stopping in a roundabout is way too common.
@@bballjo Yeah, I know I'm being a nitpicky bastard. Sorry for that But regarding the US point... most places do not explicitly describe priorities on roundabouts generally, and more often leave the priority stting to signs. At least 1 US state, and definitely Poland will legally require cars to yield to entering traffic when on a roundabout, unless sihns specify otherwise.
@KarolOfGutovo where I live in the US, roundabouts have the priorities painted on the roads...but it makes no difference to the drivers...plus roundabout designs here make it hard to actually signal that you are about to exit, unlike the ones I. Germany that I grew up with
you know a lot of stuff but you need to get to the point quicker, like I just need a to know the best and simplest one to do at the start of the video and then you can talk about all the other tests.
19:22 Oh no they definitely need to find the time and budget to fix the traffic. I agree that we do not have a lot of traffic in our Republics but that is because, at least for me, I do not give personal cars to my citizens because of the vehicles' pathfinding issues and the personal car issue. As soon as they fix those I am certain we would all use more vehicles on the roads. Thank you bballjo for your service o7
My "Highway Building Code" now includes space between the two highway roads. running a mud road in the middle for the normal spacing works good. With this, highways look a lot more "weighty", and you can use the middle space to run bridges up in difficult spots.
I now have "Highway standard" (no level intersections with the highway) and "Fast Roads" (look like the highways in video, can have cross traffic). Then the different road types according with their max speed as arterials types, connection types, etc, for a simple type of road hirarchy. The typical scenario I'm facing in my republic are sudden traffic spikes that lead to clogs (like when a CO ejeculates every vehicle at once), and this helps a lot.
It's still not Cities Skylines, and for a game with such a logistic aspect I have to agree with Peter that roads are one of the most wonky aspects in game.
I personally prefer the median to be as small as possible. Generally the default spacing you get with snapping enabled is enough. I only widen the median (to accommodate a bridge for instance) only if needed. And in cities (especially in existing ones on populated maps) the median often has to be very narrow, or practically nonexistent (with 2 roads overlapping each other).
13:40 really glad you included this diamond. One of my favourite designs.
This interchange test video produced the most exciting results by far so thank you for doing it.
thanks for all that work
Fantastic research, thank you. Probably anything in the '70%' range is, as you said, gonna work out based on available space (or design style preferences). Also supplemental 'not-even-once' for fans of Roundabouts in W&R - I'll admit to failing terribly any time I end up trying to make them work.
Waited so long for something like this, but I didn´t espect that the roundabouts are so bad - Thanxalot for your work, bballjo
Thanks for the insights! Gonna start converting my roundabouts to traffic lights in closed spaces
One thing I hate about single lane one-way roads are that all vehicles slow down just before going onto them for some reason. They don't do this to connected two lane one-way roads, only single lane one-way. The road doesn't even have to bend for the vehicles to slow down, best seen around 17:00 if you look at the incoming lanes in the bottom right. They slam the brakes, then continue onto the one lane road and accelerate again
yeah i wish there was a option for em not to slow down when theres no need, liek why are you givign way you are jsut straightign down a road, need a mod like cities has
@@any1aliveyou can fix this with signs, give the traffic coming on to the one way the right of way, and force the other to yield/stop
Was performing updates to my roads and used this method to get traffic around the road work
And todays community report is about you. Nice job!
you are such an asset to the community. TY!
Thanks for those kind words!
I gotta say, I use roundabouts without gridlock. Yield signs. That's how real roundabouts work. I'm not sure why you are setting a priority road - place all the signs manually and it works amazingly well.
It's works fine as long as there is no way for it to overflow, and not everyone needs to pass 2/3 exits...I talked about that in the beginning, this is an experiment with evenly distributed traffic volumes, and very high traffic density...a roundabout doesn't work in this case....in other cases (most cases of use in this game) it's most likely going to be fine.
Yes I just put the priority signs on the actual roundabout section and everything essentially moves. What you might find is you may get less tonnage however for lots of vehicles at least you get higher throughput. At least that is what I have noticed
Next would be the perfect "starter" city layout that evolves to like 5-7k people in regards to traffic. I noticed already with roughly 3k people that having a central road to feed buses, hospital and the super market is able to slow down throughput of the city notably. That's why I changed the street layout basically to a one way design and have them do pretty basic roundabout to feed traffic in from one side only and have traffic coming from the opposite direction having to drive on the outer roads of the city to feed in to the main road. I noticed that buses now were able to enter and exit the city on more constant intervals and therefore distribute workers more evenly to their jobs.
Excellent video and amazingly useful experiment. Thank you! Only thing that jumps to mind is if and how much would using traffic signs and in some cases traffic lights influence the results. I have a feeling that Peter tried to fix road and traffic coding issues with the traffic signals/lights. I find that the priority, give way and stop signs work wonders (especially for roads leading to a major intersection to make the traffic more fluid), but they have their limitations obviously. Cheers and again, awesome work! 👏
If you check the links with the results in the description you will see that in general, the default without signals and signs performs better, unless things get locked (like roundabouts) and then signals and signs become a necessity.
Yet, due to the nature of this experiment, which has effectively 4 even road traffic loads, the signs and signals are less useful, they work really well if you have a main route, and secondary routes. The 4 way intersection for example works excellent when you place signs, and make 1 road a priority, but the secondary road will effectively never move/empty, and your throughput looks high because of that.
Meaning, this experiment is very specific for the worst case scenario, and in most situations it won't be this bad.
@@bballjo Appreciate the answer. It's quite a complex problem in real life, let alone in a video game with a few limitations, but it feels quite rewarding when you get to solve them and your vehicles are flowing through intersections. Your experiment will inspire and give ideas to many, I know it did for me. 🖖
Lol. No
Hi, BB, It almost looked like you did get inspiration from my highway intersection presentation on Steam, though I haven´t used traffic to test it ingame so kudos for you trying so.
#1 best intersection is in Europe called "maltese cross" and IS used where all other traffic would have not been enough. I am glad that at least THAT one holds up well.
There is a big fail around 14:40 with that dumbbell roundabout - due to increased length of traffic distance around those roundabouts the highway at the bottom gets stuck due to vehicles turning around at upper right corner, blocking many cars. You would need to prolong the separated part of those roads for it to be able to work.
Things not covered here (and those I would love to see) are
- turbo roundabout (with dedicated lanes going around to each direction; kinda hell to setup due to crossings, but should be working quite well (my guess is around 65% when signed correctly)
- double-trumpet. You are great with setting up trumpets and one-way roads do actually look good on these. Now combine two of those (google the look of it on german wiki page or on my english channel) and I would think that it should be really working well in this game (70%-ish is my guess).
Hope this get a sequel! :)
Also a partial cloverleaf (parclo).
@@NewBuildmini parclo for this particular setup doesn´t make much sense - the whole crossroad is DELIBERATELY set up the way that has same volume of traffic between all directions alike. So symetrical crossroads give good enough answer of what is good and what is not.
In real game/world a partial clovers with upgraded parts/branches do make sense as traffic volumes are unequal, but here it simply isn´t true.
@@siriusczechYou could say the same about diamond interchanges, because they aren't symmetrical either. One road is completely grade-separated, while the other road has to share space with turning cars.
@@NewBuildmini they still are axis-symetrical.
Would be interesting to see re-test now that the devs "improved" traffic logic, specifically mentioning your setup as a source for inspiration.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. Will bballjo spend another week of building and testing?
He won't, but I can try to show the obvious improvements, maybe in a short 😜
The improvements mean that the worst performing junctions are doing better, and the best performing junctions have a little less throughput (less than a couple percent difference) and blocked setups, like roundabouts with slip lanes, actually can be used now.
Excellent video BB! I can use some of the intersections you presented to us as inspiration for building out my republic's interstate/motorway network. Now from what I noticed, roundabouts work okay-ish if the traffic volumes aren't too high (such as in a more rural area where there isn't too many vehicles running around), but they really do break down when having to deal with heavier traffic loads, even if set up with one lane roads to help separate out traffic. And as you mentioned, traffic would probably flow a lot better if (big if) a massive overhaul of the coding is carried out to give us additional tools to set up lanes how we want and make vehicles behave better than they currently do. With this in mind, it seems the classic diamond works pretty well given the limitations of the game for service interchanges (interstate to arterial) as well as SPUIs for areas limited on space. For cloverleafs, I may try to experiment with a German design where the ramps are on their own separate side roads off to the side of the thru-lanes, since from both experiences in CS and real life, the weaving between thru traffic and those getting on and off basically as a traffic generator. The way I could see it possibly working would be to set reduced speed limits on the "collector" roads to encourage thru traffic to continue down the lanes without the ramps, while traffic wanting to change roads would have to take the collectors.
The speed limits definitely have an impact in the current pathfinding... would love to see your results!
well done sir.. holy shit that's alot to think about...keep em coming!!
Love these test videos
Interesting video, it's like my tutorial map, only you made it more measurable with transportation & focused mainly on major intersections for highways.
The setup sure took a long time to get right.
You really built some good stuff, some could easily run better.
I find the best was the one at 15:09 SPUI & 16:20 stack, i like the look of it :D
Simple tips on how you can make the previous ones better.
Think like pathfinding, become pathfinding & be pathfinding in the end :D that sounds weird but it's true.
The vehicles are always looking for the shortest route, you must always remember that. You have to determine which way is the fastest, so be the pathfinding yourself.
Best help speed limits, simply select the 70 kmh sign. Then with Q & E like lifting & lowering, you can give e.g. single lane roads a 90kmh sign, then the regular roads are faster & the pathfinding of the vehicles chooses this way.
Turnoffs/ramps should always get a 70 to 90kmh restriction so that only departing vehicles use that path. Otherwise, others also like to take this "shortcut" because it is faster according to the vehicle's forecast.
Single lane roads are by default faster than the normal ones. The vehicles then calculate that the big curve driving is theoretically faster than 10 kmh slower straight ahead ^^.
If you build roads a bit diagonal to the road (the normal ones), you can achieve a better angle when connecting. With single-lane does not work (except with shift), unless you connect them to the middle which is also not better.
& with freeway on-ramps you have to add an acceleration line. If you want it accurate & use the better angle each time when connecting. Drive the vehicles almost without speed loss on the highway, you can achieve the angle with the normal road & connect 1 lane roads to it ( with shift much easier).
It helps partly also, if you use the dirt footpath & on the highway, before the coming entrance, 1-2 Nodes create. You can connect them with each other, then the right of way sign is nicer & the node is so big that sometimes vehicles also drive into the "occupied" block. Then they stop less when other vehicles are on the highway.
A problem with intersections is the node, it makes sense to prevent blockades in the game. But it ensures that the traffic stalls. Because as soon as a vehicle is on the node, it is blocked like a track block with signals. Then incoming vehicles stop automatically. This is also true if you connect 2 very close nodes.
as soon as one node of the two connected is occupied, the other is automatically blocked, because it is a block like trains.
With 2 parallel streets that form an intersection with 4 nodes it is the same, although it is now better.
To avoid this, I sometimes connect only the roads at an intersection that should also be driven in a certain direction. That prevented blocked nodes.
It was improved in that respect, however, that turn lanes work better.
Here is a link from a picture, you can build in the game without shift. in a bit bigger
as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/02/37/51/66/1000_F_237516679_zSQYnnIjnp3g5REdL2d3yFEpTBiQi1aY.jpg
here you can literally feel the purple dots(nodes) :D
nice work. thanks. I personally always trying to overbuild my interchanges just in case in future I will have more traffic, but unfortunately the game makes you use railroads and big traffic never happens to me, but in the future I will try to build some high efficient interchanges shown in the video.
If you're going to be building the Stack, you might as well use rail 🤣
Maybe you should do this experiment again😁. They updated the single lane traffic.
Thanks for this video
I'm glad you switched over to 4k resolution. :)
Great video! The only thing I wished I had seen was a 2 single lane highways into a roundabout, I know roundabouts suck as they only use a single lane, but as they are already highways with one way lanes maybe it will make the roundabouts work better.
2 ways or 1 way into a roundabout won't make a difference... The roundabout will eventually clog itself...a solution is to make the roundabout a lot bigger, or if Peter fixes the slip lanes.
Thinking of it, I technically created 2 lanes for the roundabout with the triangles...those pieces never clogged up.
@@bballjoYou could thereotically overcome that by using traffic lights. But that comes with another difficulty, because they have to be perfectly coordinated with each other to ensure traffic flows smoothly, and doesn't stop inside the roundabout. And coordination is not officially supported at the moment. I mean it is possible, but it is tricky.
So in cases when roundabouts get clogged up, it's just easier to demolish it and build a traffic signal junction with dedicated lanes instead.
I work often with roundabouts with roadsigns. And they are working. I only had to build a bridge over a single roundabout to avoid some issues with other intersections. Its also a solution for small places.
Quite enlightening!
thank you for making me better
Traffic rotary's will always be the clear winner.
That's a Traffic circle for those who have not heard of a rotary. in my area , we call them a rotary.
Brilliant content!😍
I imagine that the grade-separated junctions would be a lot more efficient if there was a "merging" logic.
For those unaware, currently the game treats them the same as a normal road junction, meaning cars have to wait for a gap in the traffic, even if they could've kept going without hindering highway traffic. This shouldn't be too hard to implement, the game could simply apply the "merging" logic when the angle of the joining road is smaller than a certain angle (e.g 45 degrees).
Alternatively, the game could consider the time needed to perform a maneuver, and check the traffic on the priority road for an according distance. This would automatically result in a smaller checking distance on merges.
Currently you can slightly get around this issue by adding a node on the priority road as close as possible to the joining road. This reduces the checking distance, making it more likely for cars to merge in front of other cars. But in some cases this leads to them stopping in the middle of the junction, with cars on the priority road clipping through them. And sometimes they end up slowing (or even stopping) the cars on the priority road.
7:30 The solution to the cloverleaf is that you need to use of one lane road between the two lane road and connect the ramps to the one lane road. So that vehicle don't turn in de middle of the road.
Thus far, my biggest republic has 12k citizens, no personal cars, and I transport everyone and things by road. I haven't had any issues running roundabouts, no signs or signals. I've found doubling up on the one-way roads going in each direction (2 lanes each for outgoing/incoming) works very well, even at 4-way intersections. Rounding out the corners helps a lot because vehicles won't bleed speed slowing down to take the sharper corner.
For Roundabouts specifically, in my experience they need to have enough a circumference to allow for a decent amount of space between on/off exchanges, and turning the radiuses of the vehicles.
At 12k you're barely at the starting block of a republic...I hope you don't take any conclusions here...if you've managed to create traffic problems past a single blocked customs house, then you've done something very wrong, any road design should be sufficient at such a small population.
The bummer for some of these interchanges, like the DDI, is that they really require a synced traffic signal setup to work the way they’re supposed to, and you can’t do it in WRSR because the intersections have to be combined and they have to be close…and they can’t be.
Otherwise another fun intersection to try would be the CFI.
It seems like a SPUI would not exactly work properly because you can’t do protected left turns…though you could set it to let one way go at a time…which would still keep things at 3 phases.
I would be interested in seeing if Texas 4-phase would work for tight diamonds…it seems like it would be tough to make work without preventing lefts during certain phases…idk.
It is possible to coordinate traffic signals in WR:SR. I actually wrote a guide about that on Reddit.
In a nutshell:
-All traffic lights you wish to coordinate must have a common cycle length (sum of all phase lengths).
-To set an offset, use the "jump to this phase" button. This will make it so that the light will turn green for this phase at this exact moment.
Amazing job buddy
i use a roundabout for connections between interstate and normal 2 way roads, its the main garbage dropoff point it sometimes gets backed up but with signage and now sliplanes it seems to work pretty good
it never fully paused my republic though
I think the roundabout is a generally good solution in most circumstances...it's just not great for high traffic volumes... sadly, when I tried the slip lanes, everyone was avoiding the roundabout, not sure why.
@@bballjoAnd no matter the traffic volume, it's not a very good solution when the flows are not balanced. In that case, the roundabout essentially turns into a priority junction.
Very interesting!
Thanks!
Yes
I usually go roundabout with yield signs on the inputs. Maybe because i'm french and we love roundabout out there. 😅
I want to suggest a theoretical model, quarter diamond with roundabout.
It requires 4 bridges (or tunnels) and uses sort of a roundabout. All exits and intakes are on the left side.
Basically, we have a highway with parallel one-way roads. Highway A(w-e) have a bridges (or a tunnel) over Highway B (n-s) roundabout (oval shaped).
So, all of the sides: Awe (hwy A west-east), Aew (hwy A east-west), Bns, Bsn, Br (hwy B roundabout), Al (hwy A loop, difficult to explain)
_Notice: hwy B may or may not have a shape of an actual roundabout, this is a functional roundabout or return loop._
If we go on Aw-e side we'll see the following:
- bridge, one-way exit to hwy B (both directions), second bridge, one-way intake from hwy B and out.
side Aew: bridge, exit to Br, intake from Br, bridge over Br, out.
If we go on Bsn side we'll see the following:
- intake of loop lane or Br enter, exit to hwy A (both sides), intake from hwy A (both sides), bridge exit of loop lane or Br exit, out
If we go on Bns side we'll see the following:
- intake of loop lane or Br enter, bridge, exit of loop lane or Br exit, out.
The difficult to explain part is the road spaghetti between exits and intakes. It have following key points:
- connection for intake and exit of Aew side before second bridge
- connection of exit lane of Awe to exit lane of Aew after the small bridge. (side Al - hwy A loop)
- disconnection of Br to Aew (to under the bridge) and Br to Awe (to after the bridge)
- (optional) disconnection of Al back to Awe and Aew (for the sake of the functionality)
- (optional) connection of Al to to Awe and Aew a bit before br2Aew2Awe disconnection
Explanation is a bit awkward, but without pictures or at least ascii art I can't do better.
Yeah, when I read it it almost sounds like the windmill/turbine, but I know that's not what you mean... picture required.
On that note, I purposely didn't go too deep into junction hybrids that use multiple traffic treatments (the elevated roundabout and dumbbell are just 2 examples of that) because the permutations are literally endless.
If I get a good set of 10-20 other junctions to try (with pictures;) ) I'm happy to make a follow up with those results.
...and the craziest part of this structure is that both of loopers from Awe and Aew have to go via single one-way road in the same direction.
@@bballjo Where can we submit our ideas?
I have just tried to make a roundabout work similarly to one near where I live by using single lanes only - each incoming road splits into 3 lanes in, each for a separate exit (1 slip lane), and 2 lanes out, one for slip lane and the other out of roundabout exit. I tried first to make it properly, but I messed up the nodes a and noticed that the game allows you to glitch 2 one-way lanes through each other, so I tried a simplified cheat version with nodes only where necessary and I'm quite positive this would perform well compared to the rest on the list, because once you set the yield signs, of which there are now only 2 (3 if you want to allow returning back where vehicle came from) per incoming road (one to join the outer lane of the roundabout and one at the end of slip lane just to remediate the issue of vehicles always going to the right lane on merge of 2 single lane roads), the traffic experiences very little "friction". I didn't want to spend a lot of time setting up the test traffic, so I just plopped the biggest vanilla bus station at each end and set up a single bus line that starts at Northern bus station and goes to the other 3 and back for every possible combination of the order and then I kept adding busses until it finally grid locked in 3/4 stations at the same time and none of the busses trying to go to the 4th being able to make it to a junction. I'm a bit torn on this cheaty approach, because I don't like cheating, but it is so far the only way I found to make multi-lane roundabouts, where vehicles actually use all lanes.
BTW, have you tried enabling the "Experimental Pathfinding" in the cheat menu? I know it isn't something a common player is aware of, but it'd be nice to know if it makes any difference for dual-lane one-way roads usage of both lanes and/or for merging two single into one double one-way road.
Ideas... ideally discord.
Experimental pathfinding...it's not a setting that gets saved, so you have to enable Everytime you reload the game, so it's not really a good thing to use...I may however go checkout what it does.
@@bballjo no need experimental pathfinding.
Well, at the morning I can explain it better. First of all I was wrong and this is a cloverleaf. My bad.
I think I'll draw the illustration today, but can't be sure beacuse of IRL issues, sorry.
Construction routine:
Build a single cloverleaf section but with second bridge/tunnel between curved exit and straight intake.
On the other side of that second bridge/tunnel, you spin exit and intake from highway under the bridge/tunnel. To prevent crossings it should be made between bridge and second bridge/tunnel.
Then (on the cloverleaf side) you connect exits/intakes from under the second bridge to the same direction ones of the cloverleaf.
And then other highway need to have returning loop somehow somewhere.
Interesting. A majority of content creators seem to use the roundabout. I suppose it is understandable, its a very efficient realworld junction, the issue is with our citizens driving ability
You may need to take a look at the volume...ALL of the traffic junctions work very similar on lower traffic volumes, most of them fail with higher volumes. In this game, you will not often get past low volume traffic, and if you do, it's time to reevaluate your traffic sources.
@@bballjo perhaps I have focused too much on the spinal trunk line through my republic. I can probably reroute a lot of things to distribute them wider across the network without much rebuilding. Thanks, I'll see.if I can attack the source of the congestion instead of trying to swallow it
Id love to see your take on the issue with single lane roads and how they connect
Peter finally responded, and may fix it, we will see
They are especially buggy when you try to lay them over a road with SHIFT (to get a dedicated left turn lane for instance).
If you don't disable snapping before constructing, it might end up connecting to the road on it's side in it's middle.
@@NewBuildmini You have to deactivate the automatic paralelization of the road, after you have already clicked on one side before & dragged the road a bit.
Then you keep the single lane right or left connection but can build the road without this strange connection bug.
If you use shift, it still connects to roads or building nodes as long as the paralele build is active. You have to pay attention, visually you notice it if you pay attention, when the road wants to connect to a node or create one.
So you can also build buildings without direct connection to connect with roads or just easier to build on top of each other.
@@pingurage2460That's basically what I said.
Love this.... Thanks
Thanks for watching!
In my city (Real life where I live :) ) they have been creating diverging diamonds and traffic is much improved!
They are great in certain situations...it's usually stubborn drivers that are the issue, just like with roundabouts
The whole point of roundabout is that everyone entering it must give a way. Otherwise it is just rounded road with four intersections...
An interchange that you definitely have not tested, is a traffic light intersection with dedicated lanes. It allows for there to be separate phases for through movements and for turning movements.
You don't have to use 2-lane one-way roads, you can get by with just one-lane roads. (tbh there's barely any point in 2-lane one-way roads anyways).
Are you certain I didn't test that? ;)
"It is not great at using multiple lanes", "It is not good at using roundabout", "The stack performs the best", "diverging diamond intersection" - I thought it was called Soviet republic, not USA traffic today...
Excelente trabajo. Una consulta: Cuál sería el mejor sistema para evitar congestionamiento frente a las aduanas? Gracias!
Best system at customs is to remove traffic...combine loads, use fewer dedicated vehicles, use trains with mixed consists, use ships...
@@bballjo thanks you! Regards!
UA-cam suggested that video again... So, now, I'm wondering if I should put some DDIs in my last huge city :D Maybe even do a big circular highway around the city...
By the way ! SPUIs can be built with bridges. I have 3 with the highway on bridges in my own republic ;)
and with bridges on slopes / with the road being dug into the ground, that intersection can be really be made tiny !
Do it;)
@@bballjo damn that was a fast answer ! :D
Isnt the diamond essentially just a big roundabout with a bridge over the middle? I'd be very curious to see how very large roundabouts would stack up compared to the other options. I think there's a good chance they'd work much better than the tiny ones you tested.
@@MrWillNeedham a diamond is a roundabout with a single diagonal across it.
Larger roundabouts...I mean these were pretty large, you can fit a few dozen vehicles on it... at what size does a roundabout become just a large detour?
And the test was all done on the same footprint...so using different sizes wouldn't really be an equal test anymore.
We need Bifa on board to fix those traffic issues :D
old but - i have the same problems with roundabaouts - but i have fix the poblem. you need the right street sights ! than it works fine.
fuck i just made a republic using mostly roundabouts for the first city.
It's not a big deal. They're only bad in cases the traffic volume is really high, or the flows on different approaches are unbalanced.
I use them a lot myself, and they work well in most urban situations.
I trick I used in cities skylines was doing lane math, imagine, two lanes come in, one goes into slip lane, and the main road gets reduced to a one lane road. Further ahead when they join again, its two one lane roads joining into a 2 lane road.
And why does cities skylines matter here?
@@bballjo I just tought it might be helpful to avoid the problems when they join up after the intersection
@sirsuspicious1850 this test is for how WRSR handles such things. One of the best aspects of CS is how you can manage traffic, and that game is designed for it. One of the worst aspects of WRSR is how you CANNOT manage traffic like in CS...I'd guess that 90% of the things anyone does in CS don't work here, prime example: roundabouts.
So bringing up something that can't work seems rather....let's say STRANGE
@@bballjo yes I know ahaha, I play both games, but what I was saying is that maybe by having a single lane road on the inside of the intersection in WRSR could make the merger go more smoothly, I haven't tried it myself so I don't know how it would go
@sirsuspicious1850 if you watch all the way to the end, you will see that I've played with that, plus if you would look at any of the documented results you would see that too... trust me I was very hopeful that at least some of the CS traffic would translate, but this game just doesn't care.
The turbine design looks like something else 😬
why is it, that waste trucks (and buses?) don't respect the "no traffic at all" sign? thxfyr
Exactly! I think Peter needs to revisit that...the TS kinda does whatever it feels like doing, same with snowplows...which is why these junctions are even more important
Danke für Deine Antwort. Die Schneepfpflüge sind nicht so "schlimm", weil nur wenige.
Auch ist es von und zu den Müllverbrennungen jeweils ein riesen Stau.
Was ich mal fragen wolle: bist Du ein Entwickler des Spiels oder irgendwie daran beteiligt@@bballjo
Think for your answer. There is also an endless traffic jam at the waste incinetation sites. Can this be fixed somehow?
About the snowplows I don't get angry too much as there are so few.
What I also wanted to ask is whether you are a developer (participant) of the game and since you use German city names, maybe you even speak German?@@bballjo
@franzschutz9833 I'm not a dev, but I know how to get a hold of them, and I help with early testing a little when features are on the internal branches.
I think, traffic jams may become a new "fix it" series, luckily a roundabout won't be the answer much, so I won't get a biffa strike...but I'm guessing there is a way to fix your traffic at the incinerator, but it's probably going to be a very custom solution I'd have to look at.
Can you give it another spin after community report 86 and post the result in the forums? 🙃
Turbine looks like a german WW2 icon
I wish you also compared the delivery rate with fuel consumptions.
But that's not a variable, that is a static number....it's the reason I only use 6 lines with the same vehicles to compare efficiency...
@@bballjo Hi, thanks for your response.
It shouldnt be static as the road lengh differs with each junction. Or am i wrong?
Awesome video, can you do it with train tracks
I can...but why? Trains are a lot longer, and the junctions are a lot bigger...any junction that doesn't cross will do well (cloverleaf are out) , and the volume is much more limited because they are trains...
If there is optimization in this game, then I will make a lot of traffic. But now we have to use only trains.
Can't use trains for waste and maintenance and snow and bus transport and final delivery
would "experimental pathfinding" change anything??
Who knows...at this point there has already been an update...I would have tested experimental pathing, but since those settings are never saved, it wouldn't be a real playable option for me...
Where's YUMBLE when you need him.
Wrong game...move along now.
Thankfully this proves what most Americans already know instinctively: that roundabouts are pure evil.
Lol
So workers is not very well programed for traffic? But its important for gameplay, cause of all the goods to transport, the fundament of sovjet countries. Do you thing cities skylines is better in this point?
Um...not sure how you got to that conclusion. WRSR is more than appropriate for traffic. It's your job to make smart decisions for traffic, and maybe don't try to ships large quantities of quarried stone across the map with small trucks.
This test only looked at an unreasonable amount of traffic and how you can solve it, and the answer was: you can, here are some options. A recent update fixed the roundabout versions as well.
Is cities skylines better? Don't take this the wrong way, but CS is the "dumb cousin" in comparison, the only thing it lets you actively manage is traffic, and I would hope it's good at the 1 thing it allows the player to use their brain for, but even then, all traffic decisions are still made by the game...WRSR gives the players much more control about all aspects, and comparing them doesn't really do either justice.
i know the problems ... life would be much more easy if there would be a "no left turn" traffic sign.... that could avoid the turnings of tracks @ completly stupid possitions
11:30 Austrian Painter design 💀💀💀💀
Beginning edit: pointless complaining below, I am a loser that can't commit the time to run the test in a way I consider good enough so instead I nitpick on the person who actually put in any effort lol
5:45 the vehicles on the roundabout are yielding to the ones coming in... that's not a roundabout, that's an american traffic circle and that IS bad. You need to have priority for the vehicles staying in the roundabout. The signless roundabout is a nightmare, weird, and irl most people would not realise that the priorities are not normal and would yield when joining.
EDIT: it seems like disregarding signs is a theme. They are really important, keeping traffic that is fast already moving is the key. If it stopped, it can stop again. But once it's moving it shouldn't stop too fast. On the elevated "roundabout" example, the points one would have to yield without signs are:
when turning left (all directions are relative to initial heading):
1 the traffic joining the circle from right
2 the traffic joining the circle from straight on
3 the traffic going through the sliplane from straight on (they would be going collisionless but they yield
While with proper signage the stopping points would be
1 before entering the circle
2 merging with the sliplane from straight on
3 entering the road going left
The signs shift stopping points to allow the circle to clear before vehicles can fill it back up, and allows traffic that is already up to speed on the highway to continue on.
In real applications it also has to be considered that the roads will not be so balanced. Most of the traffic will be going straight on - this means that deciding which path gets the timeloss also matters in those situations - pushing it onto a more important route (straight forward) will mean that more time is lost overall when timeloss/vehicle stays equal. But in this example 2x as much traffic is coming in from the sides through the merging lane so ig in this specific instance of equal load on all paths it makes sense that the 2 merged paths have priority over the main road.
But the roundabout is unexcusable.
third edit: the 15:06 dumbell would have cleared if the traffic staying on the top roundabout had the priority and could leave the roundabout without having to let new traffic flow in
You could look at the full result list and see what the things you mentioned actually did... spoiler, it unlocks the roundabout, but it still doesn't perform well.
Also, I'm not sure if you understood that I was testing traffic flow in this game...it looks like a roundabout, but traffic flow is highly limited because of pathfinding in the game, so I'm not testing roundabouts, in testing traffic flow in the game.
Lastly, American roundabouts have the same rules as anywhere else in the world, Americans just ignore those rules, so stopping in a roundabout is way too common.
@@bballjo Yeah, I know I'm being a nitpicky bastard. Sorry for that
But regarding the US point... most places do not explicitly describe priorities on roundabouts generally, and more often leave the priority stting to signs. At least 1 US state, and definitely Poland will legally require cars to yield to entering traffic when on a roundabout, unless sihns specify otherwise.
@KarolOfGutovo where I live in the US, roundabouts have the priorities painted on the roads...but it makes no difference to the drivers...plus roundabout designs here make it hard to actually signal that you are about to exit, unlike the ones I. Germany that I grew up with
@@bballjo The lines on the road are also classified as signage afaik, but yet again, here I go nitpicking :P
you know a lot of stuff but you need to get to the point quicker, like I just need a to know the best and simplest one to do at the start of the video and then you can talk about all the other tests.
Useless video.
Just use a train to transport the 1200 tons.