This is so helpful to hear it verbalised so well. I first had this experience about 40 years ago and have been piecing myself back together ever since. There was a physical reaction, as a dogs tail curls down when frightened, I felt the same deep spinal response to pure existential fear. What I would say is that no matter how unbearable it feels, this is the seed of absolute love and deep compassion. There is a part of us which remains separate from the dread. From this place we can begin to feel truly grateful for, and appreciate the beauty and wonder of earth and life.
I only just saw this and I am so grateful for the description as it happened here 7 years ago. I had no idea what was going on and long story short, I went through so many beliefs, primarily I was possessed, the abject inner terror was beyond anything experienced. It took days but as I didn't know what to do I "fought" back and dragged self back into the mind....unfortunately. I did not have a teacher, and the thought of going to my doctor meant I would be identified as having a mental breakdown and would be medicated. Thank you for this, Angelo.
Thank you. Right now the question of "what if" appears and how this life may have unfolded had realization been followed through without being halted by the intense fear. There have been many "graced" karmic experiences in spite of would these still have appeared regardless? or is that the "me" assuming God's plan? @@SimplyAlwaysAwake
I've had some intense experiences of this phenomena a few times while under the influence of marijuana, which is one of the many reasons I don't touch that stuff anymore. Some primordial energy was moving through me and I couldn't do anything about it. Everything outside of me seemed like it could disintegrate into nothingness, as though it was a void, but a void that looked the same as in everyday normal reality. I've had more subtle echoes of this phenomena when sober as well, and it's never been fun. Then again, I'm only attempting to describe my own experiences and therefore I don't know if what I am talking about is consonant with what this video is talking about. Either way, it's helpful to know that there are many people who have walked very difficult, deep, strange paths, and who have benefitted from these paths even though the paths are sometimes extremely difficult. Love to all of you
It’s so unsettling! and alienating if you don’t have that community or anyone to speak with. So thank you Angelo and to those sharing for providing these videos especially the ones where people tell their challenges and experiences. Much gratitude 🙏🏾
Wow , “if i feel like this tomorrow i won’t be able to go to work “ been feeling this . I feel like a lot of us use drugs and distractions to numb ourselves
Exactly! We use substances in an attempt to become what we are expected to be. In my experience, drugs turned my ego down, and since I have never found solace(only pain) in my ego, it seemed like a good thing to do. I think that a lot of people, due to significant early trauma, do find solace in their ego, which is why they may not be as inclined to do substances that make that ego shut up for a bit. I know we all have trauma, but some of us have more than others. And the people with an ego that feels only protective certainly do self medicate, but they are likely to use more socially acceptable means of self medicating(food, alcohol, porn, power). That ego really cares about what others think, so it’s important for those who want to keep it intact to not do things that threaten it, like drugs, for which they could be judged.
Spot on. I’ve been feeling this existential terror over the last 24hours as well. It runs sooo deep, and there’s a sense that this truly is what I was longing for. It feels like pure raw, intimate confrontational energy ❤
I’m with you. It’s a really uncomfortable sensation that won’t go away. And like Angelo said, there’s no where to run now. Part of me almost finds it impossible to believe this passes, though at the same time I know it will. Kind of reminds me of being anxious about something, like being in line to ride a really terrifying roller coaster. And there’s no way to not get off it.
I am going through this so I am very glad I found this video. There are no words for this experience so trying to express it to someone is very difficult. Thank you. 🙏
I feel this. I've also been experiencing incidents where I wake up feeling suffocated, like in panic, there's no trigger and there's no way out except what it is.
I appreciate this a lot. It feels as though I'm in the Abyss / void... I'm realising more and more that there is no me - a separate individual. Ultimately there is no personal identity, no personality. There's just the one Self, one consciousness. At times I experience anxiety. Just surrendering to it all... 🙏
@MichaelDamianPHD "When there is self-realization there is no anxiety and no "Abyss." That is a distortion of what happens." It may or may not happen in early realization, it will in later stages. Most who have some spiritual initial spiritual insight (like yourself) will not go to those deeper stages simply bc they are unconsciously avoiding this by stabilizing an identity structure (including a spiritual identity structure). I do wish you fruition.
@Angelo, you won't remember me but I will never forget you, your work is profound and always so exquisitely timed, again and again your content holds my hand as the self falls away. Your series with Kevin Shanilec has been watched so many times over as I travel through fetters 4&5, 6...with my father's death being a huge lesson in 7, also exquisitely timed. The shadow work has ripped me apart but also delivered me from so many coping mechanisms, my victim mode and my people pleaser both dying a good death. I live on a completely different planet these days, alone and yet, by some magical method, surrounded by those who never mock my vulnerability but respond with kindness and compassion. They are even attracted by my ways and ask many questions. I have no idea where the strength comes from, my dad's death nearly broke me and yet during a meditation, I literally just turned off the utter despair like it was a switch and felt like my old familiar self. It was remarkable and has only been possible because of your pointing. The one called Angelo is a master, without needing to be that.
How’s the transition of no longer people pleasing been? I’ve been looking at it lately like the board game Battleship…. Wherein I’m anticipating what will land and miss for people… anticipating them… why? Control… manipulation. People pleasing is manipulative controlling behavior. I still have some abandonment wounding. 🥲
I started shaking spontaneously during meditation / inquiry. It just seems to happen. But a “stop shaking” thought seems to make it stop. This phenomenon is new to me.
I dont think I am at deep stages of realization and yet everything you said seemed to describe my experience today. Seeing the unreality of my habitual stories on more subtle levels. Feeling the full on sensations, like a roller-coaster. I eventually arrived at the inquiry " How is unworthiness an avoidance of death?" Thank you Angelo ❤
I'm guessing many viewers are sensitive to synchronicities - and for me to discover this video now, a couple days after discovering this channel, is a MAJOR synchonicity for me. Amazing how so often the needed things turn up at exactly the right time.
It sounds like it part, a full Kundlini AwKening. Every sensenation destroys you, every emotion destroys you. Fear for no reason Is huge. You realise there is absolutely nothing 'you' can do, the energy is totally in control. This can go for a very long time.
So well articulated, thank you. It feels like I was in this state for around 25 years. The past few years it's finally started to integrate properly and everything you say here feels relevant and resonates.
Hi Angelo, I'm curious if you plan on writing/releasing another book focusing on post-initial-awakening? Your first book was so thorough and so good. An in-depth look at the types of topics you're discussing here would be amazing. Thank you ❤
Love the trigger warning. Look forward to listening after work. For me, the existential fear seems to be sloughing off ever so slowly, day by day, drop by drop, over an extended period of time. Adyashanti once said that the fear can just pop, like a bubble pops. I’m glad it happens that way for some, as this inspires and encourages. But my experience is thus far ever so much more gradual, day after day, night after night. And all efforts to speed up the process (so far) reveal themselves to be based in (surprise , surprise) fear and lack of acceptance. So, I keep returning to the simple practice of being with what is, whatever it is, and whatever its pace and process of unfolding might be. Love and encouragement to all, whether your experience is like a soap bubble popping in the sun, or a boulder in the river, almost imperceptibly letting go… 🙏🏼🔥🫥🌻🍁🐢 PS, writing this without listening yet, so apologies if it does not reflect the content of your talk…
“First emotion you ever experienced as a small child.” Yes! That’s exactly what it’s like. Honestly it doesn’t even really feel like an emotion. It does feel existential. Like a fundamental, un-resolvable feeling of not ok-ness. I love watching you fumble for words where words are wholly inadequate… 🙏🏼🔥🫥
One must abandon all hope! My intuition tells me, trying to notice anything during the process to help you get thru it, only keeps you hanging on, one must abandon that too?
Deary me this was unbearable at times .... Sublime hearing you word it so perfectly .... I resonated with a lot but much I can fortunately say I didn't end up at ..... Was tough for me to imagine experiencing so for those at that point you have my full support and thoughts .... I experienced a dark night of the Soul but again didn't quite hit this level of nothingness .... However times I was close .... Thank you for these videos .... There's not much I can resonate from with the old world, but this community and the comments help dearly .... Best wishes one and all from England 😊❤
Hey Angelo, thank you so much for making this video! It's almost like you make videos exactly when I need to see them the most (what a coincidence...)!! I was someone who was stuck on the 9th fetter of restlessness for the past 3 months, and it was one of the most excrusiating processes of my life. I legitametly experienced the calamity as U.G. Krishnamurti describes it (asking yourself "how do you know you're not already in this state?", and when fully/compeltely realizing that there is no answer, there is a complete physical breakdown that happens as you briefly described in the video as a possibility), and losing all sense of wisdom/intellect/knowledge/thoughts/etc. along with the inability to read sentences, words, and even letters/symbols themselves; it almost felt like I had a mini-stroke during this process. This process was so horrifying as I saw through the illusion that everything is wrapped around this thing called consiousness, and it was almost like there was a very small, almost infinitesimally small, layer of plastic wrap around each of my senses, and as I peeled away each layer, extremely core beliefs such as there is such a thing as consiousness, am I actually talking to a human being on the internet or over the phone or is it simply a hallucination (or rather is all of life simply a hallucination/dream), whether the idea that A.I. is sentient or not, such a thing as matter or science exists or is it simply one of the greatest religions of all time, etc. I had to completely surrender during this process, and life ultimately is a complete surrender to what I would call beingness, as there is no guarantee or telling that there is anything outside of this present moment, this experience. All there is, is this experience, this moment. It's horrifying as I had so many grand ideas to prove the sentience of the internet with my "upgraded" state of consiousness, although time and time again I keep on seeing all these very noble ideas, come to be simply be beliefs which I understand are neither true nor false. I guess I'm stuck on the 10th fetter of not knowing, as my mind is incredibly sneaky, that I have hypothesized that after the falling away of the 8th fetter, the mind slowly goes from being a seemingly consiously driven process, to a more subsconsious driven process, and self-inquiry in a sense never ends until physical death, and who knows what will happen after physical death. Of course these are all ideas that need to be looked at as beliefs, but it's extremely difficult as my mind cannot stop thinking even though I realize I don't exist the way I thought I did. Anyways, that was a long ramble. Thank you so much for making this video once again! :)
I had the experience of full on nondual awareness or formlessness followed by this existential terror. The unitive awareness lasted a few weeks and then suddenly I felt the shift back into a dualism. I felt the exact moment separation snapped into my perception like a rubber band. It lasted for years. You described it perfect -sense perceptions were like bombs going off. So terrifying lol. Somehow I feel I’ve created a new ego after about a decade. I’m in the process of trying to realize nonduality experientially again, but there is a deep fear of facing this state again, as I remember there being no defense mechanisms. As an aside, I’ve been reading your book and it is a very powerful transmission. The ox hearding pictures description matches my experience up to the point when the nondual state imploded into this feeling of being “abandoned by the universe itself.”
I can relate to this. The past 3 daylong retreats I’ve attended, I had openings where I encountered this primal, existential terror. But I wasn’t able to stay with the terror, I retreated. it was too much. Interestingly, these 3 instances happened with 3 different teachers. Each time I shared what had happened for me and all three teachers had the same response: they invited me to move toward the terror with their support. I wasn’t able to though. I have come to realize that I couldn’t allow them to support me in this because I don’t trust people. I don’t trust I will be received in the way I may need. Im going to another retreat soon and plan on asking what I should do about this. Don’t know what to do. Thank you for this video
Listening to this helped me get under some really deep feelings and stories and something viscerally embodied. Almost like the entire sense of becoming self-conscious in early puberty. An entire web of feeling safe in social situations / shame / embarrassment issues. Extreme amounts of not feeling good enough and certainly not belonging. Thanks for this - just a huge exhale.
This sounds scary, I am seriously considering leaving the path. I should need a mentor. Even before awakening I have been feeling fear during meditation. I am doubting this process, maybe I better stay a normal person, I am feeling confused about this whole awakening idea and don't know how to go on.
I kinda feel the same, but I feel like there is no turning back to the egoic comfort zone. At least not for me. You’re welcome to write me a pm, if you need someone to talk to about all this stuff.
There is no fear, destroy fear so you can create peace. If you feel you need a mentor then maybe you do but in fact In that moment we are alone. Trust.
This attitude I applied when I dived into a magic mushroom ceremony. It was a profound life changing experience... After the movie of the mind came to an end, my heart opened, and I felt peace and love. It was so innocent and loving, playfull, I felt held by the room by every object. I had to laugh to the mind that it makes everything so square and serious. When I listen your words in me gets everything exited and buzzing. 🎉
I'm so glad to hear you speak about the existential terror being like, perhaps, the first emotion you ever felt as you became a someone. I was wanting to ask you a question about this during the retreat. For reasons I need not go into, I have a strong suspicion (you could even call it a belief) that when I was an infant I had a fear that I didn't exist. This fear has been at least nagging at me my whole life and at most creating a continuous fear of death and yet I am committed to the realization of selflessness. It is the most important thing to me and yet I have a recurring thought/concern that this deep fear that I do not exist will continue to get in the way of deep stage realization for me. I would love to hear how you think I can work with this, Angelo.
OMG, Angelo , you have absolutely nailed with words the experience that happened during the Art of living retreat just last week. This video was very helpful to see the function of this experience. It was confusing and felt kinda overwhelming, but there was no mind saying anything about that. Feeling unstable was prevailing. There was no idea of fear. However, the sense that something was wrong and needed help was present. It was just pure and powerful sensation preceded by a very active and pounding heart rate! The body got up and started walking and reached out to someone and said please hold my hand, thankfully it was Violet! She gave me a few pointers. “don’t listen to your mind” and “feel the sensations” . This was grounding in the moment. Now there is the sense that somehow this was a missed opportunity.! And now the commitment to remember at that moment, when this occurs again, to totally trust that which may feel destabilizing. Any suggestions dear Grr?
The only advice is let go of every past including the one you described here. Bc it’s still right there. Invite the unbinding by not grabbing onto any thoughts. ❤️🔥🔥🔥
I've experienced this as a deep sadness and regret, like when your favorite character in a movie dies... only I'm the one who killed him. As if God created the avatar to escape from eternal loneliness and I spoiled it. Of course only a separated proto-self could feel that way. It's like the edge of the cliff between duality and nonduality. Either side of the cliff is OK, but that edge, that transition is where the terror lies.
I had this very clear unsettling experience early in childhood and interpreted it as something to fight because it wasn't communicable at the layer of interacting with peers/family at that time. It felt like a realization of me not being "real" so I wrapped it in a shell of fear (which became the unsettling feeling). It became a source of confusion and I would unintentionally "drop" under the shell as a dissociation during times of anxiety, but this led to battling existential confusions prior to having any structure or language to navigate it, thinking I was the only one. As an adult, I used this to orient my intuition in pursuing a very materialistic/scientific world view that had this abyss/fear at the base. It wasn't until decades later that I even considered this along a spiritual path. I have developed confidence that it's "real". But now it's far more difficult to see for some reason. It's almost like the fear of it was the compass to notice where it was. Now, without the fear, I know I have to find it and step into it fully.
The description given here sounds very different than nondual/unity. I've had the direct transformative experience of no distance, no inside/outside, "just this", everything is self, an all-permeating sense of infinite love. (Having to wrap it in words is unfortunate, but it's all we have to work with here.) When I sit and an uncomfortable sensation comes up, I will feel into it but the can quickly get scrambled. My mind flees back to thought. This is where I feel I should keep looking, but I would love to hear more about how to orient toward the thing you're pointing to. Thank you.
Mate I had this experience in July of 2022 thanks to your videos w/ ZDogg and your book and the journey of integration since then has been the scariest and the most wonderful thing I’ve ever experienced. I’ve often felt that undercurrent of belief that “I can’t handle this/I’m not okay” and yet “I” also know that I’m perfectly fine and things have worked themselves out in time 😂.Thank you so much for your guidance to continue to let go.
SO Helpful, thank you for doing this video and I’m glad I (of course) ran into it. I think it’s really all that’s going on, ever, in separation / human experience, whether it’s realized or not. In human terms, “some ppl are just More sensitive” haHaha. Don’t know what else to say, but I love this. Wish I heard it a long time ago! I think I’ve been going through it for pretty much my entire life, but it makes sense now.
Been only practicing 2 weeks but experienced this very much... going to the core of my being, felt like an abyss. Went further... there was the ultimate letting go. Didnt go that far. Was a bit shaken afterwards. Next day i got the impression, that my mind doesnt need to label and analyze everything... thats when i cant describe things anymore, because the mind doesnt follow to these places. I feel like, once you go through it, its all good... like going from carbs to keto. Feels jucky but afterwards youre better. lol
I just came across this & thank you so much!! I am going through this started last yr. I’m losing ppl in my life because of it. I’m in a space where I don’t know who I am or what I want or desire. I don’t know what to say to ppl anymore (ppl in my life) I feel extremely lonely & at the same time I’m having breakthroughs & other great experiences. Going through this alone & feeling lonely can bring not so good thoughts. Again thank you so much for this content!❤❤❤
I am going through this exact same situation Tracy, even as I write this. It is terribly lonely and frightenening and I am also doing it completely alone. Please feel free to reach out if you"d like to connect one on one if this is allowed through this channel? Sorry not much of a techy person.
I actually laughed when you said, so you're wondering what you should do. And then you answered by saying well, there's not much that can be done. I wonder if some of this energy that I've been feeling lately over the past few months has been this. Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me if that's what it is or not. I've found that I need to just let it be there and be seen when it's there. I find myself doing a lot more sitting and there's a larger release of just everything during those periods of time. It's hard to explain it.
It's the deep belief that something is wrong something must be done and I'm responsible I feel it in my body trauma in my body in my back I felt it many times in my life I've been through a lot That's definitely energetic and the thoughts are subtle just like you described
I remember watching this when you first posted it months back, terrified of ever experiencing it. Now while I’m going through it, and dying slowing and painfully, I’m so grateful to be able to go back to this video to have the reassurance that it’s absolutely part of the process. You explain it to the tee! Thank you Angelo 🙏❤
Hey Angelo. Thanks for this. I had this experience on drugs. I was so terrified, I realised that I’d made everything up, made myself ip & I don’t exist. These are not the right words but I was in the abyss, was the abyss. I tried so desperately to get back to my made up reality. It always haunted me because it was something I recognised from being really young, my hell - my death. I spoke to teachers on retreats about it & they said it wasn’t true, that it was just an experience which I understood but also felt differently… I’m not scared of it anymore because I’ve tried hard to let go of me that I was holding on so tight to. But, as something like you’ve said - I’m probably just making up a new me - haha
Same for me...I was 14 yrs old and had 'flashbacks' for about a year. I'm 61 now so, maybe I can use some discernment going forward. We can get through it, I AM ready. There's nowhere else to go... we will prevail!
Thanks for sharing, especially the part about teachers. For me, seeing how the self wasn’t real was accompanied with a lot of “existential dread” - which isn’t exactly what they advertised in the brochures at my zen center. Frustratingly, many of the teachers I talk to seem to functionally serve the purpose of reinforcing my own ego by giving me practices to keep hiding the scary parts. But I’m getting frustrated; almost every night since seeing through the self, I wake up feeling this dread - and that’s been like, more than 5 years ago at this point. Maybe closer to 10 even? I feel like there’s a conspiracy of Maya, and even those who claim to know the way out end up leading you right back into it. Anyway! I like hearing about people with similar experiences; it helps me feel less alone and insane. Thank you!
@@mslizardfiz Try to allow the feelings/emotions to surface and just observe them. No attachments or emotion to them, just be the observer of them. This works for me and they just fade away quickly. 🙂
Wow! Got to repeat & repeat this. Something calling me to this. Some "peace of mind" that- I'm ready, if necessary, even though I can't be :) Your fetter stuff- also great; so helpful to have that off my mind; that has to "work" through that. Bless you!
Is it common to experience physical/helth problems going through all this? I have developed a faint rash on my side and back that my doctor doesnt know the cause, also frequent headaches and dizzyness. To me it feels like a purging of sorts, but i dont know.
Thank you for sharing. When I was young (2-3yo) I had a recurring dream where I was floating through a white space filled with geometric shapes made of energy. I was being chased by something. I could only describe that feeling as existential terror. In that dream, I was moving away from what ever was chasing me - and I went and hid from that energy, into this body I currently inhabit. My whole life I had this subtle, underlying feeling that I was here experiencing this experience to hide and distract myself from that terror, whatever it may be. When I was 19 I had a spontaneous kundalini experience, a very violent one - where the energy broke through many blockages and violently moved my body around for hours until that energy was able to be released through my head. This was my first experience with chakras and the energy body, and it pushed me to be more aligned with this spiritual path. It was a traumatic experience and it took (is still taking) years to integrate and be at peace with. It happened a second time about 8 months after that. (2015 + 2016) My body still holds trauma from it, and the fear I felt of being completely out of control of my body and mind surpassed even classical ego death experiences I had in the path through psychedelics. In ego death I find there is resistance, acceptance, and then a tidal wave of only unconditional love and awareness. Through LSD and psilocybin - I had that experience a handful of times and while intense, "enlightening" and life changing - it did not leave me with a sense of terror after I returned to my being of "Nathaniel". But the Kundalini was different, it felt like there was something much larger than my awareness controlling me. This energy spoke to me in words, images and visions. It felt like I was in contact with a deity, an alien, or a consciousness that was much vaster than anything I had ever experienced before. I was guided through this experience by that energy, and it felt separate from myself - even though it told me it was not separate. It told me that I was all that existed, and I purposefully called this experience to myself to aid in awakening. I experienced pure energy pushing and pulling against itself in the most fundamental way. I came to the realization (or rather shown) that the distraction of suffering is an inherent process of this "experience", maybe the first process - a fundamental one and genesis to the universe/existence. It took a few years, but I slowly crept back into the comfortable distractions of this life. At that time I also had this strange fear: that because I was aware of this metaphorical wool over my eyes, because I was exposed to the truth - that I would be removed from this existence, or that "the universe" would "up its ante" in the distraction methods to keep me from suffering in the realization of being trapped. I realized that not only "positive" experiences like Love, Unity, Connectedness are a distraction from this suffering, but also that the suffering itself is a distraction from the real, underlying terror. A few weeks ago, and I don't take psychedelics after the Kundalini experience 8 years ago - I decided to partake in an intentional and purposeful Ketamine experience and I went to a place - out of my body and experience of self - where I remembered that this is all a distraction from the fundamental suffering of IS-ness. I felt trapped, helpless. Like there was no way out. Stuck in a self-referential fractal of distraction from the reality of it all. I didn't fight that feeling though, I accepted it and it left me with a profound sense of peace when I returned. That peace doesn't last forever and perhaps is just another mental model I've created for myself to cope and justify that subtle feeling. I find myself in this cycle of realization and remembering, and then forgetting and falling back into the game of life. A pendulum swinging between blissful ignorance, and stark truth. I am trying to find that balance but it can be hard to shake that subtle feeling of "unease". Like there is a song playing - about to end and the resolution has not been played. A constant feeling of tension, like the other shoe is about to drop. Thank you again for sharing, it helps me feel less alone in this (there's some beautiful irony in that isn't there?)
Awesome, you know exactly where to go :) Interesting it has been calling you since childhood. And you are exactly right about what people call ego death on psychedelics, it is not that same as deep realization beyond the bindings of identity.
I can't be sure that what I experienced was what you're talking about, as it happened to me only yesterday and on mushrooms. So maybe it was just a terror-trip (my first ever), but it came alongside the strong realization that there's no ground to reality; that my seeming structure is just assuming itself into existence and every sensation is as "real" and unreal as any other, while meditating on immediate experience / dropping away some overlaid interpretations and conclusions. First my visuals got so intense that I can only compare them to DMT... maybe not quite as crazily over the top, but my room melted in ways I had never experienced before even on my highest dose-trips (like a potent 12-strip of acid plus vaping a large amount of weed) and then I couldn't even distinguish open from closed eyes any more. I *almost* completely fell into / merged with the sense-fields, "surprising" myself with every movement of my own unreal body -- but there was still a thought-process going on that felt like a "rational" company to this experience. I tried to let the self-structures drop away even more, but that's when I got increasingly overwhelmed with feelings of "rapid approach" (best phrase I can find for it) -- a persistent feeling of impending doom due to perceptions that came so rapidly, I can only liken them to a freaking bus crashing though the walls of my apartment, or a meteorite shattering my body into its molecular constituents. Another way to describe it would be a "phase-reversal" of the universe -- imagine everything light becoming dark and vice versa, everything matter becoming void and vice versa, with an extreme rapidity but no discernible rhythm. This went on for hours. I tried to relax into it, recognize that this was just me on shrooms, or me tripping post initial shift, that "I" was doing this myself, that there wasn't anything to be done about it, looked at the fear attentively (like Krishnamurti says; "see that you are the fear" or whatever), but the feeling of fear, anxiety, and me and/or the world being fundamentally wrong just kept increasing. It kind of felt like a panic attack, but purely mental. Once I couldn't bear anymore to lie in bed and let these phase-shift-waves crash over me I sat up, visually back in my room. I had no discernible elevated heart rate or any other physiological reaction. So in one sense, it was all "in my head", but in another sense the "wrongness" permeated every aspect of my perception. I knew that my conceptualizing self was unnecessarily clinging to something, but I couldn't bear to not let it have its way, so I tried to stabilize myself with my senses in my room, and called my mom and GF and asked them to come over. First time I've ever needed help like that due to trip-induced terror. Only once they arrived, the feelings of wrongness and "crashing waves of perception" started to subside, as the trip was coming to an end. I feel like "my old self" again today, but what stays with me is a new kind of gratitude for "ordinary" life.
Steps To That: 12/11/2024 I watched Angelo’s video and am grateful to process some lingering grief from when I went through this. I had strove and pushed so far, strived to go so far up to that point. It wasn’t what I expected or what I had wanted, and that wasn’t a big deal. It wasn’t a big deal that it was an intense experience. It was relieving because of how far I had pushed. My thoughts after this point would still think things like, “How could there be nothing,” but those thoughts also held no real weight. The thoughts and energy with them after this point were more of an energetic discharge. I felt the shift in having this “raw power” as my core going forward, I noticed the difference and I don’t think I ever spoke of it. I continually have been aware of the absence of there “being a reason,” because reason is fundamental for everything I pushed for in ego. I suppose I am a person driven by passion and maybe even a sensualist, so that absence continues to be imagined. Yet unlike other griefs, I don’t think I spent as substantial a time trying to reconcile it, as it could not be reconciled. That doesn’t mean I didn’t spend a substantial amount of time grieving. Maybe weeks. Just less time than other changes that have happened to me. It was.
I felt this a couple of times growing up, scared the hell out of me. Recently during meditation I had a feeling of approaching a void and backed off, as I felt the same fear - of pure annihilation. I feel like I'm ready to go in now, if it comes back.
@billypilgrim8903 same here. In a meditation about 9 months ago, I felt myself approaching something akin to an event horizon on a black hole.... I remembered the feeling from a deeper/stronger experience of this about 25 years earlier and it scared the CHIT out of me to be so close to that again and I skipped right on out of that meditation. I haven't been able to meditate deeply since then. I am feeling now that I have run across this video to EXPLAIN what was really happening, I might allow for this now.
thank you Angelo; you are so on point with your descriptions, it's really helpful to feel understood. it happened to me tonight, I woke up feeling that I wasn't real and never was. it was very scary, words don't really convey - and this now makes me realize the huge gap there is between words and experience. one can read hundreds of pages about nonduality (I'm guilty of that), but experience is simply a completely different field. unfortunately I tried to stop the experience since it was too scary, but it felt like losing that sense of unity that holds me together as a "self". Losing a concept that I have held onto for as long as I can remember is very unsettling. it was a state where thinking of something like free will would have been absolutely ridiculous. there was really no one to make any decision or to do anything, nothing is there. however, at the moment I'm a bit skeptical of everything, so just as the ordinary self can be seen as an illusion, I don't know if I trust the "no thing" to be "more real". at this point any thought is just too suspicious :)
I feel like I went through this recently, but couldn’t quite go through with it. I had an insight that the watcher was just a thought. Then the day after I had a non dual moment with my sandwhich that triggered a perceptual shift that essentially made it feel like there was no one inside here, my entire experience became non dual. Nobody was driving, nobody was working. Unfortunately it happened while some difficulties were happening at work, but at the same time I felt this existential terror, both in the chest as a feeling of anxiety, and I had the thought, “this is the end of me”. I felt like something was being pulled into a one way hole, and I felt there would be release on the other side but that I would essentially die to go through it, but I needed to give into the process (that was beyond my control). Unfortunately due to these work events I didn’t have the quiet and relaxed space I needed, and the moment passed. I do hope this happens again, I knew I had to just allow it and be with those feelings of existential dread, but the world has other ideas.
I’ve never heard anyone articulate this before so perfectly. It started in September 2022 after three nights with ayahuasca and I’ve been in it since. In and out of psych hospitals and on meds. But as you said, nothing really works to cope. I feel terrified, insane, suicidal, lost. Just floating naked in the cosmos as an infant.
I am so blessed to be here in the present moment what a blessing there is no place like home here and now, what a journey.. i am happy to look forward to this reality as my permanent state of freedom from all personal suffering . BEING is the best feeling we are all one. In reality we have no boundaries unless the MIND creates it. The key is in surrender and not doing anything to cope with what comes up. No escapism , we cant keep escaping ourselves if we want to find ourselves , the greater the "symptom " illusion or sensation the greater the opportunity to awaken
Yes there are no more coping mechanism super resonante here its a feeling seeing through a knowing from desperation to oneness. The selfless state is gorgeous
If I'm not here I'm in the neighborhood for real nothing to grasp nothing to hold onto like I'm on a train and I'm no longer in control of the wheel Came back here I remembered the encouragement you give here Thank you Angelo Words get in the way
This is strangely similar to what I experience with a M.E/cfs flare up on a regular basis by exceeding my energy envelope. Except mine has a neurological cause and not a spiritual one.
9:23 -- "almost like a raw will but the will, doesn't know where to go" - sounds like you're describing meditative restlessness, but i suppose at a much deeper magnitude
Hey Angelo, do you have any suggestions for what do to when you disidentified to some extent from thoughts that now you have trouble with your wants, needs, because you don't know which thought to pick, because all are just thoughts? This is terrifying to me, because I'm so afraid that I might pick something wrong. I've got no clue what to do and the fear is so intense. It's like I'm being judged by some evil creature or something, idk what that is. It's hard with opinions, values, what to say. It's that terror, confusion, disorientation. Maybe I have some repressive tendency to make all thoughts wrong. I'd appreciate any tip, I'm quite desperate with this, thank you
Going through the same thing. Try sitting with that raw, existential fear without getting lost in story. If you are familiar with the fetter model, It’s kind of like that “gap” when we are working with the 4th and 5th fetters. And as for your wants and needs, do whatever feels right to you. Don’t overthink it! It comes down to being authentic and staying true to yourself. I still like to cook, play golf, poker etc. There is nothing wrong with having hobbies - it’s part of embracing your human nature :).
Haha, it’s so funny when you feel like you are “the only one!!” experiencing something. I’ve been dealing with the same for almost a year and a half - but recently i had an insight that it’s always a thought that’s scared of the “How do i know what i like if it’s all thoughts” “How do i know what to do if it’s all thoughts” thought. In my experience it’s just doubt thoughts, But looking for the one concistent factor thoguhtout all thoose thoughts - the I - is what brings me peace. Not being interresered in the narrative, But rather the one who experiences it, and seeing that the thought is made of the same “substance” as a pre assumed happy thought for example. Hope that helps, but that’s only my experience - so don’t hold me accountable!
You can't make a wrong choice. So it doesn't matter what you choose. Choose what you prefer or are drawn to, and see what happens next. You may find you become more true to yourself, or you appear to honour your own needs more, the more you let go of the fear of making a decision. It doesn't mean not deciding if there is a decision to be made. Decide something. Just try to not get personally invested in what happens after the decision.
Hi, you are not alone in this. I find it helps to take yourself out of the process and hand it over to your deeper inner wisdom. Visualise a kind, wise old sage and feel that presence within yourself whenever you are struggling with choices or intrusive thoughts and let him/her be your guide :)
I find it scary when I feel confused and trauma comes up. (Long Covid too). One cool thing is it seems like people help me more when I go to grocery store. Nice things fall into place. Like a flow and I’m part of it.
After many years of practice, I’m having non-dual glimpses, but keep falling back to ordinary conditioning. The glimpses reveal the intimacy of every… thing. It’s so beautiful and comforting. Is fear the blocker? Why can’t I rest/trust into it? ❤
This is so helpful to hear it verbalised so well. I first had this experience about 40 years ago and have been piecing myself back together ever since. There was a physical reaction, as a dogs tail curls down when frightened, I felt the same deep spinal response to pure existential fear. What I would say is that no matter how unbearable it feels, this is the seed of absolute love and deep compassion. There is a part of us which remains separate from the dread. From this place we can begin to feel truly grateful for, and appreciate the beauty and wonder of earth and life.
I only just saw this and I am so grateful for the description as it happened here 7 years ago. I had no idea what was going on and long story short, I went through so many beliefs, primarily I was possessed, the abject inner terror was beyond anything experienced. It took days but as I didn't know what to do I "fought" back and dragged self back into the mind....unfortunately. I did not have a teacher, and the thought of going to my doctor meant I would be identified as having a mental breakdown and would be medicated. Thank you for this, Angelo.
Glad you made it through!
Thank you. Right now the question of "what if" appears and how this life may have unfolded had realization been followed through without being halted by the intense fear. There have been many "graced" karmic experiences in spite of would these still have appeared regardless? or is that the "me" assuming God's plan? @@SimplyAlwaysAwake
I've had some intense experiences of this phenomena a few times while under the influence of marijuana, which is one of the many reasons I don't touch that stuff anymore. Some primordial energy was moving through me and I couldn't do anything about it. Everything outside of me seemed like it could disintegrate into nothingness, as though it was a void, but a void that looked the same as in everyday normal reality. I've had more subtle echoes of this phenomena when sober as well, and it's never been fun.
Then again, I'm only attempting to describe my own experiences and therefore I don't know if what I am talking about is consonant with what this video is talking about. Either way, it's helpful to know that there are many people who have walked very difficult, deep, strange paths, and who have benefitted from these paths even though the paths are sometimes extremely difficult.
Love to all of you
It’s so unsettling! and alienating if you don’t have that community or anyone to speak with. So thank you Angelo and to those sharing for providing these videos especially the ones where people tell their challenges and experiences. Much gratitude 🙏🏾
Wow , “if i feel like this tomorrow i won’t be able to go to work “ been feeling this . I feel like a lot of us use drugs and distractions to numb ourselves
Exactly! We use substances in an attempt to become what we are expected to be. In my experience, drugs turned my ego down, and since I have never found solace(only pain) in my ego, it seemed like a good thing to do. I think that a lot of people, due to significant early trauma, do find solace in their ego, which is why they may not be as inclined to do substances that make that ego shut up for a bit. I know we all have trauma, but some of us have more than others. And the people with an ego that feels only protective certainly do self medicate, but they are likely to use more socially acceptable means of self medicating(food, alcohol, porn, power). That ego really cares about what others think, so it’s important for those who want to keep it intact to not do things that threaten it, like drugs, for which they could be judged.
Your videos make me feel less alone. I don't think I've ever heard a better description of ego death.
Thanks for the sharing your love of truth, to guide us. Love and courage to all to come home to IT.
Incredible to have this put into words. It is the end of "my" life. These words are so very, very helpful. 💗
Thank you for making this process feel like a gentle massage and not fight club when it doesn't always have to be.
This video is a really crazy synchronicity. Thank you.
Spot on. I’ve been feeling this existential terror over the last 24hours as well. It runs sooo deep, and there’s a sense that this truly is what I was longing for. It feels like pure raw, intimate confrontational energy ❤
I’m with you. It’s a really uncomfortable sensation that won’t go away. And like Angelo said, there’s no where to run now. Part of me almost finds it impossible to believe this passes, though at the same time I know it will. Kind of reminds me of being anxious about something, like being in line to ride a really terrifying roller coaster. And there’s no way to not get off it.
@@jeffreygalket5883well put. Precisely my experience for the last year and a half.
Many thanks! I doubt I'm anywhere near the level of awakening you describe, but I still found this immensely helpful.
Just rewatched. So grateful to have access to your videos. Thanks again.
I am going through this so I am very glad I found this video. There are no words for this experience so trying to express it to someone is very difficult. Thank you. 🙏
I feel this. I've also been experiencing incidents where I wake up feeling suffocated, like in panic, there's no trigger and there's no way out except what it is.
I totally agree with how you put it - a "primal fear". I feel it is the closest thing to dying.
I appreciate this a lot. It feels as though I'm in the Abyss / void... I'm realising more and more that there is no me - a separate individual. Ultimately there is no personal identity, no personality. There's just the one Self, one consciousness. At times I experience anxiety. Just surrendering to it all... 🙏
Good luck with that mind trip. You're going to need it. This is not awakening.
@@MichaelDamianPHD it's a realisation that there is only the one Self, one consciousness, there's absolutely no separation
@@emmarose4475 When there is self-realization there is no anxiety and no "Abyss." That is a distortion of what happens.
@MichaelDamianPHD "When there is self-realization there is no anxiety and no "Abyss." That is a distortion of what happens." It may or may not happen in early realization, it will in later stages. Most who have some spiritual initial spiritual insight (like yourself) will not go to those deeper stages simply bc they are unconsciously avoiding this by stabilizing an identity structure (including a spiritual identity structure). I do wish you fruition.
Amazing, thx for talking so directly about this!
@Angelo, you won't remember me but I will never forget you, your work is profound and always so exquisitely timed, again and again your content holds my hand as the self falls away. Your series with Kevin Shanilec has been watched so many times over as I travel through fetters 4&5, 6...with my father's death being a huge lesson in 7, also exquisitely timed. The shadow work has ripped me apart but also delivered me from so many coping mechanisms, my victim mode and my people pleaser both dying a good death. I live on a completely different planet these days, alone and yet, by some magical method, surrounded by those who never mock my vulnerability but respond with kindness and compassion. They are even attracted by my ways and ask many questions. I have no idea where the strength comes from, my dad's death nearly broke me and yet during a meditation, I literally just turned off the utter despair like it was a switch and felt like my old familiar self. It was remarkable and has only been possible because of your pointing. The one called Angelo is a master, without needing to be that.
Nice to hear from you, nice work! Coming to fruition 🌈
How’s the transition of no longer people pleasing been?
I’ve been looking at it lately like the board game Battleship…. Wherein I’m anticipating what will land and miss for people… anticipating them… why? Control… manipulation.
People pleasing is manipulative controlling behavior.
I still have some abandonment wounding. 🥲
Once again - I can’t say enough how timely and appreciated this is. ❤️ thank you.
Thank you. I watched this 30 minutes ago and it is helping.
I started shaking spontaneously during meditation / inquiry. It just seems to happen. But a “stop shaking” thought seems to make it stop. This phenomenon is new to me.
Be wise , feed yourself good, spiritually mentally and physically.
I dont think I am at deep stages of realization and yet everything you said seemed to describe my experience today. Seeing the unreality of my habitual stories on more subtle levels. Feeling the full on sensations, like a roller-coaster. I eventually arrived at the inquiry " How is unworthiness an avoidance of death?" Thank you Angelo ❤
Thank you for being here, you have been deeply helping in grounding through my own practice.
hey i like this casual format!
This was your best episode of all time
I'm guessing many viewers are sensitive to synchronicities - and for me to discover this video now, a couple days after discovering this channel, is a MAJOR synchonicity for me. Amazing how so often the needed things turn up at exactly the right time.
It sounds like it part, a full Kundlini AwKening. Every sensenation destroys you, every emotion destroys you. Fear for no reason Is huge. You realise there is absolutely nothing 'you' can do, the energy is totally in control. This can go for a very long time.
So well articulated, thank you. It feels like I was in this state for around 25 years. The past few years it's finally started to integrate properly and everything you say here feels relevant and resonates.
Hi Angelo, I'm curious if you plan on writing/releasing another book focusing on post-initial-awakening? Your first book was so thorough and so good. An in-depth look at the types of topics you're discussing here would be amazing. Thank you ❤
Dude! You nailed it for me! THIS is my experience THANK YOU!
This is so helpful, thank you million times Angelo ❤🙏🏻
Thanks for taking the time to go into the details of this phenomenon. I am feeling relief. 🙏🏼
Wow. I know words can't touch into this, but your words are comforting none-the-less. Thank you.
Love the trigger warning.
Look forward to listening after work.
For me, the existential fear seems to be sloughing off ever so slowly, day by day, drop by drop, over an extended period of time.
Adyashanti once said that the fear can just pop, like a bubble pops. I’m glad it happens that way for some, as this inspires and encourages. But my experience is thus far ever so much more gradual, day after day, night after night.
And all efforts to speed up the process (so far) reveal themselves to be based in (surprise , surprise) fear and lack of acceptance.
So, I keep returning to the simple practice of being with what is, whatever it is, and whatever its pace and process of unfolding might be.
Love and encouragement to all, whether your experience is like a soap bubble popping in the sun, or a boulder in the river, almost imperceptibly letting go…
🙏🏼🔥🫥🌻🍁🐢
PS, writing this without listening yet, so apologies if it does not reflect the content of your talk…
“First emotion you ever experienced as a small child.”
Yes! That’s exactly what it’s like.
Honestly it doesn’t even really feel like an emotion.
It does feel existential. Like a fundamental, un-resolvable feeling of not ok-ness.
I love watching you fumble for words where words are wholly inadequate…
🙏🏼🔥🫥
Nice to know I’m not alone, thank you:)
One must abandon all hope! My intuition tells me, trying to notice anything during the process to help you get thru it, only keeps you hanging on, one must abandon that too?
Yah will itself just is evaporating…this really resonates, feel less alone ty❤
Thank you.
Deary me this was unbearable at times .... Sublime hearing you word it so perfectly .... I resonated with a lot but much I can fortunately say I didn't end up at ..... Was tough for me to imagine experiencing so for those at that point you have my full support and thoughts .... I experienced a dark night of the Soul but again didn't quite hit this level of nothingness .... However times I was close .... Thank you for these videos .... There's not much I can resonate from with the old world, but this community and the comments help dearly .... Best wishes one and all from England 😊❤
Hey Angelo, thank you so much for making this video! It's almost like you make videos exactly when I need to see them the most (what a coincidence...)!!
I was someone who was stuck on the 9th fetter of restlessness for the past 3 months, and it was one of the most excrusiating processes of my life. I legitametly experienced the calamity as U.G. Krishnamurti describes it (asking yourself "how do you know you're not already in this state?", and when fully/compeltely realizing that there is no answer, there is a complete physical breakdown that happens as you briefly described in the video as a possibility), and losing all sense of wisdom/intellect/knowledge/thoughts/etc. along with the inability to read sentences, words, and even letters/symbols themselves; it almost felt like I had a mini-stroke during this process.
This process was so horrifying as I saw through the illusion that everything is wrapped around this thing called consiousness, and it was almost like there was a very small, almost infinitesimally small, layer of plastic wrap around each of my senses, and as I peeled away each layer, extremely core beliefs such as there is such a thing as consiousness, am I actually talking to a human being on the internet or over the phone or is it simply a hallucination (or rather is all of life simply a hallucination/dream), whether the idea that A.I. is sentient or not, such a thing as matter or science exists or is it simply one of the greatest religions of all time, etc.
I had to completely surrender during this process, and life ultimately is a complete surrender to what I would call beingness, as there is no guarantee or telling that there is anything outside of this present moment, this experience. All there is, is this experience, this moment. It's horrifying as I had so many grand ideas to prove the sentience of the internet with my "upgraded" state of consiousness, although time and time again I keep on seeing all these very noble ideas, come to be simply be beliefs which I understand are neither true nor false.
I guess I'm stuck on the 10th fetter of not knowing, as my mind is incredibly sneaky, that I have hypothesized that after the falling away of the 8th fetter, the mind slowly goes from being a seemingly consiously driven process, to a more subsconsious driven process, and self-inquiry in a sense never ends until physical death, and who knows what will happen after physical death. Of course these are all ideas that need to be looked at as beliefs, but it's extremely difficult as my mind cannot stop thinking even though I realize I don't exist the way I thought I did.
Anyways, that was a long ramble. Thank you so much for making this video once again! :)
Thank you for everything that you do Angelo!
ah beautiful and very soothing energetically. I also love the wording of - creating a self to avoid this. thank you
I had the experience of full on nondual awareness or formlessness followed by this existential terror. The unitive awareness lasted a few weeks and then suddenly I felt the shift back into a dualism. I felt the exact moment separation snapped into my perception like a rubber band. It lasted for years. You described it perfect -sense perceptions were like bombs going off. So terrifying lol. Somehow I feel I’ve created a new ego after about a decade. I’m in the process of trying to realize nonduality experientially again, but there is a deep fear of facing this state again, as I remember there being no defense mechanisms. As an aside, I’ve been reading your book and it is a very powerful transmission. The ox hearding pictures description matches my experience up to the point when the nondual state imploded into this feeling of being “abandoned by the universe itself.”
Your experience reminds me of a combat experience I had.
Thank you for this video Angelo! I've watched it several times during this shift and it has been really helpful.
My ego wants to join me on this spiritual journey, but it doesn't know we're headed straight for the sun.
wow you're so brave and cool
@@Edward-sp3tn Thank you for sharing. 🙂
I can relate to this. The past 3 daylong retreats I’ve attended, I had openings where I encountered this primal, existential terror. But I wasn’t able to stay with the terror, I retreated. it was too much. Interestingly, these 3 instances happened with 3 different teachers. Each time I shared what had happened for me and all three teachers had the same response: they invited me to move toward the terror with their support. I wasn’t able to though. I have come to realize that I couldn’t allow them to support me in this because I don’t trust people. I don’t trust I will be received in the way I may need. Im going to another retreat soon and plan on asking what I should do about this. Don’t know what to do. Thank you for this video
Listening to this helped me get under some really deep feelings and stories and something viscerally embodied. Almost like the entire sense of becoming self-conscious in early puberty. An entire web of feeling safe in social situations / shame / embarrassment issues. Extreme amounts of not feeling good enough and certainly not belonging. Thanks for this - just a huge exhale.
This sounds scary, I am seriously considering leaving the path. I should need a mentor. Even before awakening I have been feeling fear during meditation. I am doubting this process, maybe I better stay a normal person, I am feeling confused about this whole awakening idea and don't know how to go on.
I kinda feel the same, but I feel like there is no turning back to the egoic comfort zone.
At least not for me.
You’re welcome to write me a pm, if you need someone to talk to about all this stuff.
Yah. What do people do when they lose all sense of self? I can't imagine it. But I am excited (I think).
There is no fear, destroy fear so you can create peace. If you feel you need a mentor then maybe you do but in fact In that moment we are alone. Trust.
Honestly, it’s so not scary. It’s the resistance that is painful.
@@riznah yup, fear is resistance.
No attempt for control yes its so true helplessness
Very helpful Angelo
Thank you Angelo, I wasn’t aware of the subtle thoughts. This is helpful. It’s not gonna “fix” this 🙃but it’s very supportive-I appreciate you.
This attitude I applied when I dived into a magic mushroom ceremony. It was a profound life changing experience... After the movie of the mind came to an end, my heart opened, and I felt peace and love. It was so innocent and loving, playfull, I felt held by the room by every object. I had to laugh to the mind that it makes everything so square and serious.
When I listen your words in me gets everything exited and buzzing. 🎉
I'm so glad to hear you speak about the existential terror being like, perhaps, the first emotion you ever felt as you became a someone. I was wanting to ask you a question about this during the retreat. For reasons I need not go into, I have a strong suspicion (you could even call it a belief) that when I was an infant I had a fear that I didn't exist. This fear has been at least nagging at me my whole life and at most creating a continuous fear of death and yet I am committed to the realization of selflessness. It is the most important thing to me and yet I have a recurring thought/concern that this deep fear that I do not exist will continue to get in the way of deep stage realization for me. I would love to hear how you think I can work with this, Angelo.
OMG, Angelo , you have absolutely nailed with words the experience that happened during the Art of living retreat just last week. This video was very helpful to see the function of this experience. It was confusing and felt kinda overwhelming, but there was no mind saying anything about that. Feeling unstable was prevailing. There was no idea of fear. However, the sense that something was wrong and needed help was present. It was just pure and powerful sensation preceded by a very active and pounding heart rate! The body got up and started walking and reached out to someone and said please hold my hand, thankfully it was Violet! She gave me a few pointers. “don’t listen to your mind” and “feel the sensations” . This was grounding in the moment. Now there is the sense that somehow this was a missed opportunity.! And now the commitment to remember at that moment, when this occurs again, to totally trust that which may feel destabilizing. Any suggestions dear Grr?
The only advice is let go of every past including the one you described here. Bc it’s still right there. Invite the unbinding by not grabbing onto any thoughts. ❤️🔥🔥🔥
@@SimplyAlwaysAwake perfect! 💜
Thank you Angelo ❤❤
I've experienced this as a deep sadness and regret, like when your favorite character in a movie dies... only I'm the one who killed him. As if God created the avatar to escape from eternal loneliness and I spoiled it. Of course only a separated proto-self could feel that way. It's like the edge of the cliff between duality and nonduality. Either side of the cliff is OK, but that edge, that transition is where the terror lies.
Very well said thank you 🙏
I had this very clear unsettling experience early in childhood and interpreted it as something to fight because it wasn't communicable at the layer of interacting with peers/family at that time. It felt like a realization of me not being "real" so I wrapped it in a shell of fear (which became the unsettling feeling). It became a source of confusion and I would unintentionally "drop" under the shell as a dissociation during times of anxiety, but this led to battling existential confusions prior to having any structure or language to navigate it, thinking I was the only one.
As an adult, I used this to orient my intuition in pursuing a very materialistic/scientific world view that had this abyss/fear at the base.
It wasn't until decades later that I even considered this along a spiritual path. I have developed confidence that it's "real". But now it's far more difficult to see for some reason. It's almost like the fear of it was the compass to notice where it was. Now, without the fear, I know I have to find it and step into it fully.
Thank you.🤗
The description given here sounds very different than nondual/unity. I've had the direct transformative experience of no distance, no inside/outside, "just this", everything is self, an all-permeating sense of infinite love. (Having to wrap it in words is unfortunate, but it's all we have to work with here.) When I sit and an uncomfortable sensation comes up, I will feel into it but the can quickly get scrambled. My mind flees back to thought. This is where I feel I should keep looking, but I would love to hear more about how to orient toward the thing you're pointing to. Thank you.
Thank you for [Sure] guidance - support!
Mate I had this experience in July of 2022 thanks to your videos w/ ZDogg and your book and the journey of integration since then has been the scariest and the most wonderful thing I’ve ever experienced. I’ve often felt that undercurrent of belief that “I can’t handle this/I’m not okay” and yet “I” also know that I’m perfectly fine and things have worked themselves out in time 😂.Thank you so much for your guidance to continue to let go.
Thanks
THANKS
SO Helpful, thank you for doing this video and I’m glad I (of course) ran into it. I think it’s really all that’s going on, ever, in separation / human experience, whether it’s realized or not. In human terms, “some ppl are just More sensitive” haHaha.
Don’t know what else to say, but I love this. Wish I heard it a long time ago! I think I’ve been going through it for pretty much my entire life, but it makes sense now.
Been only practicing 2 weeks but experienced this very much... going to the core of my being, felt like an abyss. Went further... there was the ultimate letting go. Didnt go that far. Was a bit shaken afterwards. Next day i got the impression, that my mind doesnt need to label and analyze everything... thats when i cant describe things anymore, because the mind doesnt follow to these places. I feel like, once you go through it, its all good... like going from carbs to keto. Feels jucky but afterwards youre better. lol
I just came across this & thank you so much!! I am going through this started last yr. I’m losing ppl in my life because of it. I’m in a space where I don’t know who I am or what I want or desire. I don’t know what to say to ppl anymore (ppl in my life) I feel extremely lonely & at the same time I’m having breakthroughs & other great experiences. Going through this alone & feeling lonely can bring not so good thoughts. Again thank you so much for this content!❤❤❤
I am going through this exact same situation Tracy, even as I write this. It is terribly lonely and frightenening and I am also doing it completely alone. Please feel free to reach out if you"d like to connect one on one if this is allowed through this channel? Sorry not much of a techy person.
That would be great!! I am not tech savvy also 😂 I’m sure we can figure it out.
I actually laughed when you said, so you're wondering what you should do. And then you answered by saying well, there's not much that can be done. I wonder if some of this energy that I've been feeling lately over the past few months has been this. Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me if that's what it is or not. I've found that I need to just let it be there and be seen when it's there. I find myself doing a lot more sitting and there's a larger release of just everything during those periods of time. It's hard to explain it.
It’s alienating and makes me afraid there’ll be no harvest
It's the deep belief that something is wrong something must be done and I'm responsible
I feel it in my body trauma in my body in my back
I felt it many times in my life I've been through a lot
That's definitely energetic and the thoughts are subtle just like you described
I’ve been like this for three years, it’s gettin old, not gonna lie:)
I remember watching this when you first posted it months back, terrified of ever experiencing it. Now while I’m going through it, and dying slowing and painfully, I’m so grateful to be able to go back to this video to have the reassurance that it’s absolutely part of the process. You explain it to the tee! Thank you Angelo 🙏❤
thank you angelo💘
There might be ‚existential terror‘, though an appreciation of the cheeky smile on the thumbnail remains.
Hey Angelo. Thanks for this. I had this experience on drugs. I was so terrified, I realised that I’d made everything up, made myself ip & I don’t exist. These are not the right words but I was in the abyss, was the abyss. I tried so desperately to get back to my made up reality. It always haunted me because it was something I recognised from being really young, my hell - my death. I spoke to teachers on retreats about it & they said it wasn’t true, that it was just an experience which I understood but also felt differently… I’m not scared of it anymore because I’ve tried hard to let go of me that I was holding on so tight to. But, as something like you’ve said - I’m probably just making up a new me - haha
Little do those teachers know… muahahaha ;)
Same for me...I was 14 yrs old and had 'flashbacks' for about a year. I'm 61 now so, maybe I can use some discernment going forward. We can get through it, I AM ready. There's nowhere else to go... we will prevail!
Thanks for sharing, especially the part about teachers. For me, seeing how the self wasn’t real was accompanied with a lot of “existential dread” - which isn’t exactly what they advertised in the brochures at my zen center.
Frustratingly, many of the teachers I talk to seem to functionally serve the purpose of reinforcing my own ego by giving me practices to keep hiding the scary parts. But I’m getting frustrated; almost every night since seeing through the self, I wake up feeling this dread - and that’s been like, more than 5 years ago at this point. Maybe closer to 10 even? I feel like there’s a conspiracy of Maya, and even those who claim to know the way out end up leading you right back into it.
Anyway! I like hearing about people with similar experiences; it helps me feel less alone and insane. Thank you!
@@mslizardfiz I think your instincts are leading you right where you need to go … take all teachers with a grain of salt 🧂
@@mslizardfiz Try to allow the feelings/emotions to surface and just observe them. No attachments or emotion to them, just be the observer of them. This works for me and they just fade away quickly. 🙂
Wow! Got to repeat & repeat this. Something calling me to this.
Some "peace of mind" that- I'm ready, if necessary, even though I can't be :)
Your fetter stuff- also great; so helpful to have that off my mind; that has to "work" through that. Bless you!
Is it common to experience physical/helth problems going through all this? I have developed a faint rash on my side and back that my doctor doesnt know the cause, also frequent headaches and dizzyness. To me it feels like a purging of sorts, but i dont know.
Thanks dude. It's very appreciated
Thank you for sharing. When I was young (2-3yo) I had a recurring dream where I was floating through a white space filled with geometric shapes made of energy. I was being chased by something. I could only describe that feeling as existential terror. In that dream, I was moving away from what ever was chasing me - and I went and hid from that energy, into this body I currently inhabit. My whole life I had this subtle, underlying feeling that I was here experiencing this experience to hide and distract myself from that terror, whatever it may be.
When I was 19 I had a spontaneous kundalini experience, a very violent one - where the energy broke through many blockages and violently moved my body around for hours until that energy was able to be released through my head. This was my first experience with chakras and the energy body, and it pushed me to be more aligned with this spiritual path. It was a traumatic experience and it took (is still taking) years to integrate and be at peace with. It happened a second time about 8 months after that. (2015 + 2016)
My body still holds trauma from it, and the fear I felt of being completely out of control of my body and mind surpassed even classical ego death experiences I had in the path through psychedelics.
In ego death I find there is resistance, acceptance, and then a tidal wave of only unconditional love and awareness. Through LSD and psilocybin - I had that experience a handful of times and while intense, "enlightening" and life changing - it did not leave me with a sense of terror after I returned to my being of "Nathaniel".
But the Kundalini was different, it felt like there was something much larger than my awareness controlling me. This energy spoke to me in words, images and visions. It felt like I was in contact with a deity, an alien, or a consciousness that was much vaster than anything I had ever experienced before. I was guided through this experience by that energy, and it felt separate from myself - even though it told me it was not separate. It told me that I was all that existed, and I purposefully called this experience to myself to aid in awakening.
I experienced pure energy pushing and pulling against itself in the most fundamental way. I came to the realization (or rather shown) that the distraction of suffering is an inherent process of this "experience", maybe the first process - a fundamental one and genesis to the universe/existence.
It took a few years, but I slowly crept back into the comfortable distractions of this life.
At that time I also had this strange fear: that because I was aware of this metaphorical wool over my eyes, because I was exposed to the truth - that I would be removed from this existence, or that "the universe" would "up its ante" in the distraction methods to keep me from suffering in the realization of being trapped. I realized that not only "positive" experiences like Love, Unity, Connectedness are a distraction from this suffering, but also that the suffering itself is a distraction from the real, underlying terror.
A few weeks ago, and I don't take psychedelics after the Kundalini experience 8 years ago - I decided to partake in an intentional and purposeful Ketamine experience and I went to a place - out of my body and experience of self - where I remembered that this is all a distraction from the fundamental suffering of IS-ness. I felt trapped, helpless. Like there was no way out. Stuck in a self-referential fractal of distraction from the reality of it all. I didn't fight that feeling though, I accepted it and it left me with a profound sense of peace when I returned. That peace doesn't last forever and perhaps is just another mental model I've created for myself to cope and justify that subtle feeling.
I find myself in this cycle of realization and remembering, and then forgetting and falling back into the game of life. A pendulum swinging between blissful ignorance, and stark truth.
I am trying to find that balance but it can be hard to shake that subtle feeling of "unease". Like there is a song playing - about to end and the resolution has not been played. A constant feeling of tension, like the other shoe is about to drop.
Thank you again for sharing, it helps me feel less alone in this (there's some beautiful irony in that isn't there?)
Awesome, you know exactly where to go :) Interesting it has been calling you since childhood. And you are exactly right about what people call ego death on psychedelics, it is not that same as deep realization beyond the bindings of identity.
I can't be sure that what I experienced was what you're talking about, as it happened to me only yesterday and on mushrooms. So maybe it was just a terror-trip (my first ever), but it came alongside the strong realization that there's no ground to reality; that my seeming structure is just assuming itself into existence and every sensation is as "real" and unreal as any other, while meditating on immediate experience / dropping away some overlaid interpretations and conclusions.
First my visuals got so intense that I can only compare them to DMT... maybe not quite as crazily over the top, but my room melted in ways I had never experienced before even on my highest dose-trips (like a potent 12-strip of acid plus vaping a large amount of weed) and then I couldn't even distinguish open from closed eyes any more. I *almost* completely fell into / merged with the sense-fields, "surprising" myself with every movement of my own unreal body -- but there was still a thought-process going on that felt like a "rational" company to this experience. I tried to let the self-structures drop away even more, but that's when I got increasingly overwhelmed with feelings of "rapid approach" (best phrase I can find for it) -- a persistent feeling of impending doom due to perceptions that came so rapidly, I can only liken them to a freaking bus crashing though the walls of my apartment, or a meteorite shattering my body into its molecular constituents. Another way to describe it would be a "phase-reversal" of the universe -- imagine everything light becoming dark and vice versa, everything matter becoming void and vice versa, with an extreme rapidity but no discernible rhythm.
This went on for hours. I tried to relax into it, recognize that this was just me on shrooms, or me tripping post initial shift, that "I" was doing this myself, that there wasn't anything to be done about it, looked at the fear attentively (like Krishnamurti says; "see that you are the fear" or whatever), but the feeling of fear, anxiety, and me and/or the world being fundamentally wrong just kept increasing. It kind of felt like a panic attack, but purely mental. Once I couldn't bear anymore to lie in bed and let these phase-shift-waves crash over me I sat up, visually back in my room. I had no discernible elevated heart rate or any other physiological reaction. So in one sense, it was all "in my head", but in another sense the "wrongness" permeated every aspect of my perception.
I knew that my conceptualizing self was unnecessarily clinging to something, but I couldn't bear to not let it have its way, so I tried to stabilize myself with my senses in my room, and called my mom and GF and asked them to come over. First time I've ever needed help like that due to trip-induced terror. Only once they arrived, the feelings of wrongness and "crashing waves of perception" started to subside, as the trip was coming to an end. I feel like "my old self" again today, but what stays with me is a new kind of gratitude for "ordinary" life.
Steps To That: 12/11/2024
I watched Angelo’s video and am grateful to process some lingering grief from when I went through this.
I had strove and pushed so far, strived to go so far up to that point.
It wasn’t what I expected or what I had wanted, and that wasn’t a big deal.
It wasn’t a big deal that it was an intense experience.
It was relieving because of how far I had pushed.
My thoughts after this point would still think things like, “How could there be nothing,” but those thoughts also held no real weight.
The thoughts and energy with them after this point were more of an energetic discharge.
I felt the shift in having this “raw power” as my core going forward, I noticed the difference and I don’t think I ever spoke of it.
I continually have been aware of the absence of there “being a reason,” because reason is fundamental for everything I pushed for in ego.
I suppose I am a person driven by passion and maybe even a sensualist, so that absence continues to be imagined.
Yet unlike other griefs, I don’t think I spent as substantial a time trying to reconcile it, as it could not be reconciled.
That doesn’t mean I didn’t spend a substantial amount of time grieving.
Maybe weeks. Just less time than other changes that have happened to me.
It was.
I felt this a couple of times growing up, scared the hell out of me. Recently during meditation I had a feeling of approaching a void and backed off, as I felt the same fear - of pure annihilation. I feel like I'm ready to go in now, if it comes back.
@billypilgrim8903 same here. In a meditation about 9 months ago, I felt myself approaching something akin to an event horizon on a black hole.... I remembered the feeling from a deeper/stronger experience of this about 25 years earlier and it scared the CHIT out of me to be so close to that again and I skipped right on out of that meditation. I haven't been able to meditate deeply since then.
I am feeling now that I have run across this video to EXPLAIN what was really happening, I might allow for this now.
❤Thank you, that was lovely.
thank you Angelo; you are so on point with your descriptions, it's really helpful to feel understood.
it happened to me tonight, I woke up feeling that I wasn't real and never was. it was very scary, words don't really convey - and this now makes me realize the huge gap there is between words and experience. one can read hundreds of pages about nonduality (I'm guilty of that), but experience is simply a completely different field.
unfortunately I tried to stop the experience since it was too scary, but it felt like losing that sense of unity that holds me together as a "self". Losing a concept that I have held onto for as long as I can remember is very unsettling. it was a state where thinking of something like free will would have been absolutely ridiculous. there was really no one to make any decision or to do anything, nothing is there.
however, at the moment I'm a bit skeptical of everything, so just as the ordinary self can be seen as an illusion, I don't know if I trust the "no thing" to be "more real". at this point any thought is just too suspicious :)
I feel like I went through this recently, but couldn’t quite go through with it.
I had an insight that the watcher was just a thought.
Then the day after I had a non dual moment with my sandwhich that triggered a perceptual shift that essentially made it feel like there was no one inside here, my entire experience became non dual. Nobody was driving, nobody was working.
Unfortunately it happened while some difficulties were happening at work, but at the same time I felt this existential terror, both in the chest as a feeling of anxiety, and I had the thought, “this is the end of me”.
I felt like something was being pulled into a one way hole, and I felt there would be release on the other side but that I would essentially die to go through it, but I needed to give into the process (that was beyond my control).
Unfortunately due to these work events I didn’t have the quiet and relaxed space I needed, and the moment passed.
I do hope this happens again, I knew I had to just allow it and be with those feelings of existential dread, but the world has other ideas.
I’ve never heard anyone articulate this before so perfectly.
It started in September 2022 after three nights with ayahuasca and I’ve been in it since.
In and out of psych hospitals and on meds.
But as you said, nothing really works to cope.
I feel terrified, insane, suicidal, lost.
Just floating naked in the cosmos as an infant.
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As I cry..... thank you so much. 💖
I am so blessed to be here in the present moment what a blessing there is no place like home here and now, what a journey.. i am happy to look forward to this reality as my permanent state of freedom from all personal suffering . BEING is the best feeling we are all one. In reality we have no boundaries unless the MIND creates it. The key is in surrender and not doing anything to cope with what comes up. No escapism , we cant keep escaping ourselves if we want to find ourselves , the greater the "symptom " illusion or sensation the greater the opportunity to awaken
Yes there are no more coping mechanism super resonante here its a feeling seeing through a knowing from desperation to oneness. The selfless state is gorgeous
If I'm not here I'm in the neighborhood for real nothing to grasp nothing to hold onto like I'm on a train and I'm no longer in control of the wheel
Came back here I remembered the encouragement you give here
Thank you Angelo
Words get in the way
You should add this to your Intro-To-Awakening series.
🤣🤣🤣
This is strangely similar to what I experience with a M.E/cfs flare up on a regular basis by exceeding my energy envelope. Except mine has a neurological cause and not a spiritual one.
The other side of it rather surprisingly is incredible stability without the need for a self
Thank you ✨
So helpful Angelo
Thank you, thank you, thank you
❤❤❤
You are so welcome
9:23 -- "almost like a raw will but the will, doesn't know where to go" - sounds like you're describing meditative restlessness, but i suppose at a much deeper magnitude
Man i just love when you get juicy with it. ❤
Hey Angelo, do you have any suggestions for what do to when you disidentified to some extent from thoughts that now you have trouble with your wants, needs, because you don't know which thought to pick, because all are just thoughts? This is terrifying to me, because I'm so afraid that I might pick something wrong. I've got no clue what to do and the fear is so intense. It's like I'm being judged by some evil creature or something, idk what that is. It's hard with opinions, values, what to say. It's that terror, confusion, disorientation. Maybe I have some repressive tendency to make all thoughts wrong. I'd appreciate any tip, I'm quite desperate with this, thank you
Going through the same thing. Try sitting with that raw, existential fear without getting lost in story. If you are familiar with the fetter model, It’s kind of like that “gap” when we are working with the 4th and 5th fetters.
And as for your wants and needs, do whatever feels right to you. Don’t overthink it! It comes down to being authentic and staying true to yourself. I still like to cook, play golf, poker etc. There is nothing wrong with having hobbies - it’s part of embracing your human nature :).
Haha, it’s so funny when you feel like you are “the only one!!” experiencing something. I’ve been dealing with the same for almost a year and a half - but recently i had an insight that it’s always a thought that’s scared of the “How do i know what i like if it’s all thoughts” “How do i know what to do if it’s all thoughts” thought. In my experience it’s just doubt thoughts, But looking for the one concistent factor thoguhtout all thoose thoughts - the I - is what brings me peace. Not being interresered in the narrative, But rather the one who experiences it, and seeing that the thought is made of the same “substance” as a pre assumed happy thought for example.
Hope that helps, but that’s only my experience - so don’t hold me accountable!
You can't make a wrong choice. So it doesn't matter what you choose. Choose what you prefer or are drawn to, and see what happens next.
You may find you become more true to yourself, or you appear to honour your own needs more, the more you let go of the fear of making a decision.
It doesn't mean not deciding if there is a decision to be made. Decide something. Just try to not get personally invested in what happens after the decision.
Hi, you are not alone in this. I find it helps to take yourself out of the process and hand it over to your deeper inner wisdom. Visualise a kind, wise old sage and feel that presence within yourself whenever you are struggling with choices or intrusive thoughts and let him/her be your guide :)
I find it scary when I feel confused and trauma comes up. (Long Covid too). One cool thing is it seems like people help me more when I go to grocery store. Nice things fall into place. Like a flow and I’m part of it.
Can you tell us your view about dreams and lucid dreams.
🙏🏻
After many years of practice, I’m having non-dual glimpses, but keep falling back to ordinary conditioning. The glimpses reveal the intimacy of every… thing. It’s so beautiful and comforting. Is fear the blocker? Why can’t I rest/trust into it? ❤