I like NLP better so far, but I hope Film Lab takes off alongside NLP so there's a standalone option, and maybe there's going to be a widening market that will help drive healthy competition between the two so neither of them gets complacent.
I don't hear much about people using Darktable, which is FOSS that has a module called negadoctor for negative inversion. Once inverted you can go about grading your image as you would in Lightroom or other non-destructive editors
Correction … NLP is not a one time payment. You purchase the current major release only, every major update is $49 USD. Contrast that with FilmLab that is a true $199 lifetime. No update charges for major updates .. ever. Thats a big difference. NLP is soon to release a major update and has informed us that it will be a paid update. My biggest frustration with NLP is that it is more than restricted to Lightroom. I use the newest Lightroom CC (which I love) and NLP doesn’t support the newer Lightroom. I have to keep a copy of the much older Lightroom Classic running just to support NLP.
Just FYI: Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC are both supported by Adobe concurrently, so CC is not a replacement of LrC in a sense that CC is "the newest version," it's just a different product for a cloud-based photographer audience as opposed to local-file based LrC workflow. NLP has always only supported LrC, but never CC because it lacked the plugin infrastructure necessary for it to work unfortunately. Also, NLP came out in 2018, so it's been 5 years since. If you think about it that way, it'd take NLP 20 years to charge you $200 of 4 version upgrades.
@@norasanpo1145 The statement in the video is that “NLP” works with Lightroom. This is incorrect. Lightroom comes in two versions Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC. NLP only supports Classic. It does not support the newer Lightroom CC.
@@ufukkiblat Doesn't matter. Lightroom CC is a downspecced version of the actual Lightroom made for mobile users. It has nothing to do with the overall plugin ecosystem. If you mistake the text on NLP's website, that's mostly the fault of Adobe's terrible naming scheme.
I am very glad that this is a standalone desktop app. I mostly use darktable to edit, so having a non-Adobe app is very nice; I'll be able to play around with both!
I tried FilmLab with Tri-X asa 320. The shadow areas blocked up. NLP didn't have the blocking up. It's new software and maybe there will be an update to work this out. NLP has a cleaner negative conversion in my jaundiced opinion. let's see what color negs look like when I scan a roll of portra 400.
I tested FilmLab two or three times (I think it was around 2.0). With my Olympus Pen F digital results were from usable to really bad (with white specks in dark areas, and sometimes colors completely off). NLP2 does work much better for me, and since I've found a good workflow that only uses Lightroom for conversion, but preserves the option to use NLP2 at a later stage to change settings, I'm quite happy with NLP2 (even though I don't like to be tied to Lightroom, which I hate). I might give FilmLab Desktop a try when 3.0 comes around …
@felicefelix7451 Changed the wording to "workflow that uses Lightroom only for conversion". I use DNG, work most of the time with Bridge and ACR, then import into LR, do the conversion and then update the metadata and preview in den DNG to do some further adjustments; the only problem is to keep the connection from LR to the DNG until the conversion is as good as could be. This way I stay independent of LR (I just hate it, and for me it is a nightmare in itself). Finetuning is done in Photoshop or Affinity Photo (sometimes on the iPad). Works for me, as I mostly shoot 4x5 and have to deal with only a moderate amount of color negatives. Tried NLP2 for B&W negatives and found it to be bad at that.
I scanned my old negatives in a norm scanner then transferred the strip of negative into the Negative lab and used the colour negative option, I could see the photos but they were very out of focus and had a bad quality I played with the exposures, etc but the result was still the same. Any ideas?
I also keep trying FLA hoping that it'd be as good as NLP for me to ditch Lightroom, but I keep coming back to NLP, the look just matches what I expect more consistently. I wonder if this is the reason why Nate from NLP doesn't want to build a standalone app, he said that NLP relies on certain Lightroom processing tools that he cannot get outside of it.
The FilmLab App adherence more closely to RA4 paper. NLP can do that too with the Frontier model and Crystal LUT but FilmLab gets you there quicker if you have your color technique down.
@@norasanpo1145 The FilmLab App‘s look is modeled around the way color negative film looks when printed onto Fujicolor Crytal paper. Same as the Fuji Frontier scanners. You can get a similar look by using the Frontier model in NLP and the Crystal LUT at 50%. Remember a color negative film is just like a raw file. Uninterrupted data. The most analog film can look is being directly printed from the negative onto photosensitive silver gelitten paper. And the Fuji paper is really popular so the made the Frontiers match that look and FilmLab App used that look too for its color science.
Im currently messing around with the free trial conversions and scanning some B&W and they look awful, the epson software is doing a much better job at converting the film for me. Whats your workflow and.or settings to achieve results with FilmLab? I do think it does a much better job with color film.
I gave it a go but the results showed there's just no comparison with NLP. The colours aren't even close. I wish there were a standalone program but with results as good as NLP.
NLP tends to oversaturate stuff IMO and Film Lab stock scans isn't a fair comparison as you mention until you apply the camera profile since NLP does this in the background. When you account for this the results are very close and IMO Film Lab gives you a more flat stock lock where you can then import to your image editor and make edits to your taste.
Negative Lab Pro should just be a feature of Lightroom. Given how much Adobe charges, it’s unforgivable they don’t include something solid for film scans.
Film shooters would only make up a tiny proportion of their userbase. And Nate is not affiliated with Adobe, so it will probably remain an optional separate plugin.
@@pushingfilm I'm aware they're not affiliated. I just think that with the subscription for the photography plan being what it is, it's a shame they don't cater for this ever-growing part of their market (however small). Adobe's investment always seems to be in the digital zeitgeist, AI, which is not something that photographers are particularly interested in.
Software subscriptions should be forbidden. Its absolutely madening to have this development for so many years now where every type of software became a rent thing. What are people thinking? Am I am supposed to have 10000 5 dollars subscriptions in my life?
Not really - I have used both extensively. The issue here is almost certainly unfamiliarity with the settins in FLA. I actually don't use either, but own both. I get equivalent results from both (as of v2.5 FLA). I use Negmaster BR to do my inversion and finish in DxO as I find that superior in terms of dynamic range.
so results arent as good. less fine adjustements and price is double (and quadruple if you get NLP with a student discount) yeaaaah no. I would like to have a standalone program so I could use CaptureOne for everything instead of LR exclusively for film but I guess I'll have to wait a little longer for a viable alternative.
Straight to the point - minimum small talk - excellent content. Subscribed!
Thank you!
I like NLP better so far, but I hope Film Lab takes off alongside NLP so there's a standalone option, and maybe there's going to be a widening market that will help drive healthy competition between the two so neither of them gets complacent.
For sure!
Would love to see an comparison of the latest versions between these two!
I don't hear much about people using Darktable, which is FOSS that has a module called negadoctor for negative inversion. Once inverted you can go about grading your image as you would in Lightroom or other non-destructive editors
Didn’t know that dark table had that option! Nice. Have to give it a go again
Darktable Negadoctor blows NLP and Film Lab out of the water! And it's FREE
Darktable is hard to learn though, and I used to be a Lightroom user.
negadoctor in darktable is what i've been using. It's fundamentally more "correct" than NLP.
For me lightroom is a must! I use sharpshooter 4 to use my sony a7 tethered.
Correction … NLP is not a one time payment. You purchase the current major release only, every major update is $49 USD. Contrast that with FilmLab that is a true $199 lifetime. No update charges for major updates .. ever. Thats a big difference. NLP is soon to release a major update and has informed us that it will be a paid update. My biggest frustration with NLP is that it is more than restricted to Lightroom. I use the newest Lightroom CC (which I love) and NLP doesn’t support the newer Lightroom. I have to keep a copy of the much older Lightroom Classic running just to support NLP.
Just FYI: Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC are both supported by Adobe concurrently, so CC is not a replacement of LrC in a sense that CC is "the newest version," it's just a different product for a cloud-based photographer audience as opposed to local-file based LrC workflow. NLP has always only supported LrC, but never CC because it lacked the plugin infrastructure necessary for it to work unfortunately.
Also, NLP came out in 2018, so it's been 5 years since. If you think about it that way, it'd take NLP 20 years to charge you $200 of 4 version upgrades.
@@norasanpo1145 The statement in the video is that “NLP” works with Lightroom. This is incorrect. Lightroom comes in two versions Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC. NLP only supports Classic. It does not support the newer Lightroom CC.
@@jsollowsphotography You totally ignored everything Nora said. Lightroom CC isn't newer than Classic it's just a different product.
@@DominicAJThat is exactly the point. You can use LR CC only and it’s cheaper than having both.
@@ufukkiblat Doesn't matter. Lightroom CC is a downspecced version of the actual Lightroom made for mobile users. It has nothing to do with the overall plugin ecosystem. If you mistake the text on NLP's website, that's mostly the fault of Adobe's terrible naming scheme.
I am very glad that this is a standalone desktop app. I mostly use darktable to edit, so having a non-Adobe app is very nice; I'll be able to play around with both!
There was just another big update too!
Did you see Filmlabs new V3.0? Would love to see you revisit it as it now seems to be a legitimate contender!
I haven't had a chance to try it yet, looks like a big update!
I prefeer the output fro NLP.
I tried FilmLab with Tri-X asa 320. The shadow areas blocked up. NLP didn't have the blocking up. It's new software and maybe there will be an update to work this out. NLP has a cleaner negative conversion in my jaundiced opinion. let's see what color negs look like when I scan a roll of portra 400.
Have you checked the 3.0 beta? They apparently addressed better contrast control with BW film.
Which one for B&W
Until I can afford a new computer that can have the RAM and SSD I need, film lab will be my go to for now.
I tested FilmLab two or three times (I think it was around 2.0). With my Olympus Pen F digital results were from usable to really bad (with white specks in dark areas, and sometimes colors completely off). NLP2 does work much better for me, and since I've found a good workflow that only uses Lightroom for conversion, but preserves the option to use NLP2 at a later stage to change settings, I'm quite happy with NLP2 (even though I don't like to be tied to Lightroom, which I hate). I might give FilmLab Desktop a try when 3.0 comes around …
@felicefelix7451 Changed the wording to "workflow that uses Lightroom only for conversion". I use DNG, work most of the time with Bridge and ACR, then import into LR, do the conversion and then update the metadata and preview in den DNG to do some further adjustments; the only problem is to keep the connection from LR to the DNG until the conversion is as good as could be. This way I stay independent of LR (I just hate it, and for me it is a nightmare in itself). Finetuning is done in Photoshop or Affinity Photo (sometimes on the iPad). Works for me, as I mostly shoot 4x5 and have to deal with only a moderate amount of color negatives. Tried NLP2 for B&W negatives and found it to be bad at that.
I scanned my old negatives in a norm scanner then transferred the strip of negative into the Negative lab and used the colour negative option, I could see the photos but they were very out of focus and had a bad quality I played with the exposures, etc but the result was still the same. Any ideas?
I also keep trying FLA hoping that it'd be as good as NLP for me to ditch Lightroom, but I keep coming back to NLP, the look just matches what I expect more consistently. I wonder if this is the reason why Nate from NLP doesn't want to build a standalone app, he said that NLP relies on certain Lightroom processing tools that he cannot get outside of it.
Fair enough! Yeah that must be an important factor
The FilmLab App adherence more closely to RA4 paper. NLP can do that too with the Frontier model and Crystal LUT but FilmLab gets you there quicker if you have your color technique down.
Interesting, could you elaborate more on how it adheres more to RA4 paper?
@@norasanpo1145 The FilmLab App‘s look is modeled around the way color negative film looks when printed onto Fujicolor Crytal paper. Same as the Fuji Frontier scanners. You can get a similar look by using the Frontier model in NLP and the Crystal LUT at 50%.
Remember a color negative film is just like a raw file. Uninterrupted data. The most analog film can look is being directly printed from the negative onto photosensitive silver gelitten paper. And the Fuji paper is really popular so the made the Frontiers match that look and FilmLab App used that look too for its color science.
What software/hardware product did you use to calibrate your computer monitor before you started scanning?
Datacolor Spider X
cool vid does flimlab have dng output?
I've been really liking it for B&W. Getting better results than I can with other free things... It's not free, but, it is damn easy.
Good to hear!
Im currently messing around with the free trial conversions and scanning some B&W and they look awful, the epson software is doing a much better job at converting the film for me. Whats your workflow and.or settings to achieve results with FilmLab? I do think it does a much better job with color film.
Can Filmlab desktop also be used as a photo editor for photos I already have in a folder?
I gave it a go but the results showed there's just no comparison with NLP. The colours aren't even close. I wish there were a standalone program but with results as good as NLP.
I think it'll continue to improve with time
NLP tends to oversaturate stuff IMO and Film Lab stock scans isn't a fair comparison as you mention until you apply the camera profile since NLP does this in the background. When you account for this the results are very close and IMO Film Lab gives you a more flat stock lock where you can then import to your image editor and make edits to your taste.
Negative Lab Pro should just be a feature of Lightroom. Given how much Adobe charges, it’s unforgivable they don’t include something solid for film scans.
Film shooters would only make up a tiny proportion of their userbase. And Nate is not affiliated with Adobe, so it will probably remain an optional separate plugin.
@@pushingfilm I'm aware they're not affiliated. I just think that with the subscription for the photography plan being what it is, it's a shame they don't cater for this ever-growing part of their market (however small). Adobe's investment always seems to be in the digital zeitgeist, AI, which is not something that photographers are particularly interested in.
Make a backup of your scanned files before testing. Software is ruining your files. It makes fprc file of your scanned photos.
I'm not that affects the original file
FilmLab isn't good enough for it to be priced like that
Software subscriptions should be forbidden. Its absolutely madening to have this development for so many years now where every type of software became a rent thing. What are people thinking? Am I am supposed to have 10000 5 dollars subscriptions in my life?
Don’t forget subscribtions are coming to car functions also.
Wow, NLP really crushed FilmLab.
Not really - I have used both extensively. The issue here is almost certainly unfamiliarity with the settins in FLA. I actually don't use either, but own both. I get equivalent results from both (as of v2.5 FLA). I use Negmaster BR to do my inversion and finish in DxO as I find that superior in terms of dynamic range.
so results arent as good. less fine adjustements and price is double (and quadruple if you get NLP with a student discount) yeaaaah no. I would like to have a standalone program so I could use CaptureOne for everything instead of LR exclusively for film but I guess I'll have to wait a little longer for a viable alternative.