Don't Eat Anything With A Face
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- Опубліковано 3 гру 2013
- According to a 2009 poll, around 1% of American adults reported being vegan. In 2011 that number rose to 2.5%--more than double, but still dwarfed by the 48% who reported eating meat, fish or poultry at all of their meals. In this country, most of us are blessed with an abundance of food and food choices. So taking into account our health, the environment and ethical concerns, which diet is best? Do vegans have the right idea, or are we meant to be carnivores?
First debater, doctor quoting studies involving 500.000 and 120.000 participants showing huge benefits of plant based diets, vs 2nd omnivore debater quoting study on himself. This seams to be a common pattern in debates vegan vs omnivores.
If a nutrition researcher is advocating a meat based diet, most probably he is getting paid by the industry.
+Ravinder Singh Haha.. I have a view different from yours! I must be a paid shill!
+Bean Bean Usually very true. Follow the money!
+Colin Walsh Yet every meal at any place that sells food is a dish centered around some kind of animal product. Hardly ever do you see a meal centered around something that isn't of animal origin.
+zukodude487987 Yes it's just a myth. They gather statistics and see that a few more vegans have tooth decay, and thereby blame the diet...
***** The fact that you claim we should eat meat in moderation only shows that you are not willing to give up meat. Moderation is also a meaningless term that can be abused for interpretation which is the case 99% of the time.
It is also not just the fact that people eat too much meat cuz they have access to it, but also promote high meat consumption. Popular diets like paleo or atkins latch people onto very high meat diets, fear of diabetes and also just the fact that people are addicted to meats (especially processed meats) so they look for any excuse to not change or flat out ignore it.
Meat is also unnecessary and bad for the environment and our health. If we can live longer lives with less disease and less animal suffering and to do otherwise would be irrational and just signs of addiction.
Also oddly enough i only see vegans promoting the reduction of meat consumption, i don't see other meat eaters informing fellow meat eaters on the dangers of processed meat or overconsumption unless there is a vegan in the room.
Here where i live in the radio i hear sometimes commercials of a meat company saying meat is known to be unhealthy, but claim theirs is healthy, because it is locally grown meat. Like there is no way to make meat healthy just like you can't make an apple that has no carbs.
I'm a meat eater, but whenever someone brings up that absurd 'plants have feelings too' argument I have to side with the vegetarians.
They respond to stimulus, music, have preferences in what it's pollinates, and have families that protect, them by dying off to give Nitrogen, THEY ARE JUST AS ALIVE.
+Adrian Brent, plants don't suffer. Why? Because they can't feel pain.
Jonathan G. ?????? Y, do you think they can't feel pain?
How do u know ?
Adrian Brent they don't have brains. Why do you think they feel pain?
Cows, horse, sheeps are not carnivore but their bones, muscles & stamina are so huge.
I love Gene Baur. What a gentle, beautiful soul. Neal Barnard is a pioneer in his field. These men represent a collective consciousness that is becoming embraced by many.
Agreed. While Neal had good arguments, I really think Gene "won" it. First I've heard him speak. I was very impressed.
The nutritional guy on other side really bombed it. The "ethical" farmer didn't do too bad. But someone needs to inform him there isn't enough land, marginal or not, to grow the amount of animals to feed the world at current rate of consumption. Besides economics, that is part of the reason for factory farms.
So true
Barnard looks like a skeleton. His science is appalling. He is on the payroll of multinational food groups, spruiking their nonsense
It's 2021 and Barnard is still wrong!
Just imagine that in less time than it will take you to watch this video (approximately five minutes), 4,390 rabbits 380,075 marine animals 15,671 ducks 1,750 cows and calves 200 buffaloes 3 cats 4 dogs and 3 horses have been killed by human activity.
I watched this debate 2 years ago as an Omnivore. 3 months ago I watched 'Earthling's' which led to a plethora of other footage and info from the animal ag industry and factory farming. Needless to say I went vegan. Logic is nice and all and I love hearing debates but nothing beats the sensory experience of what we put animals through to persuade you that 'we shouldn't eat anything with a face'.
I wish more people like you would go vegan after watching those documentaries. It’s bizarre to me that so many people can watch them and still eat animals!!!
@@pegbuckner5074 one can be against animal abuse without being vegan.
@@this-is-bioman "one can be for gender equality while beating one´s wife"
How embarrassing that someone who spoke in a public debate actually stated that plants are sentient.
They very well may be sentient. Them feeling pain would make little sense though because they have no way to escape it, so it would be a useless and possibly detrimental evolutionary trait. However they are sentient in that they feel at the very least, almost certainly more.
However we do sadly need to eat some Plants. We do not need to eat Animals. We should really only eat exactly what we need. No more.
@@TheTaterTotP80 Brilliantly put. The planet can provide for everyones need, not everyones greed, as they say.
To willfully pay for even more suffering in this already harsh world is the pinnacle of selfishness, irresponsibility and really - evil.
Meat is inexpensive?!? meat is MORE expensive than the cheaper forms of protein like beans.
Alejandro Gangotena and given the fact that animal agriculture is subsidized to make it cheaper and the cost to repair the environmental damage it causes isn't taken into account... and the cost of our health.
Alejandro Gangotena SO TRUE!!! One of the reasons I became vegan is to SAVE MONEY!!
Plant protein doesn't come in the same molecular structure as animal protein. Plus, beans have pytates, which is an anti-nutrient that blocks nutrients uptakes. Beans have to be soaked for a day or two in order to get all of it nutrients.
MP5 if they’re dry, yeah. But there are canned beans. And no one is eating dried beans straight out the bag
Canned beans are worse than dry beans, though. BPA, aluminum, plus the toxic chemicals are a big no for me. I also will add that beans not soaked can not only block the plant proteins and its nutrients but, if eaten with another nutrient dense food like green vegetables-it blocks their nutrients from absorption too.
you know you've lost the debate when you drag Jesus and Muhammed into it.
That seemed very desperate to me as well. In case his assertions about sustainable and reduced meat production would hold true he could have brought up more convincing arguments in the end.
It seemed more and more evident that he was just defending his economical interest. Clearly multiple arguments we're unscientific and borderline ridiculous.
The problem with that argument is that Adam and Eve relied on fruits and vegetables until after that great rain
there is a good chance that at least Jesus was vegan tho. just saying
Leif D JeSUs ate fiSH
Plants are sentient beings too, O.k, this weekend I am going to take my kids to apple and strawberry picking and you take your kids to a local slaughterhouse, let us see how that pans out.
Kannan Somasekar true as fuck
Hi from the future, lol ^_^
As far as fruit picking vs slaughterhouse visits as a family outing destination, you'd get arrested for being a domestic terrorist if you wanted to take pictures of your trip to a slaughterhouse. That alone should tell you all you need to know about whether or not you should be a vegan.
YetAnotherVegan
You are a time traveler? I want to travel thru time! Please. Take me with you.
lmfao so good
Kannan Somasekar A
Vegans always win these kind of debates. You can't argue logic.
You can, but you have to be a psychopath. If you see animals as objects you can make a perfect argument.
Awesome..
It truly amazing.. When some ppl preach spiritually But GORGE down chunks of Dead Animal...
@@feroziadollie6678
Ignorance 🙄
Mango Steen logic says eat meat.
If plants were sentient beings, you would still be "saving" more of them by going vegan lol
Joel Salatin had to repeat it so many times,
His system doesn’t require external soy or corn.
@@liammorgans7329 even if you mean grass-fed they still feed them grass which he foolishly thinks are "sentient beings". Either way you have to feed the livestock with something or they'll starve to death so why not just eat the soy and cancel out the middle-man?
Orion- sorry I don’t follow what you mean could you re-word that
explain
@1EccentricMoFo nope wrong b word
Am I the only one who finds the fact that on every debate, the people for eating animals and animal products almost ALWAYS have some financial involvement? Either they raise animals, or own a restaraunt, etc.
+Ben Shabtai Yep.
+Ben Shabtai Very good observation.
Agreed, but probably because they are making a living out of what they are passionate about.
@@flyytrap you cant be passionnante about killing and destroying the planet, they are passionnante about the money lol
Because people in the food / hospitality industry would know more than people who aren't in these industries. It's not rocket science.
"plants have faces" ... wow... ppl will say anything to justify their cheeseburger habit
If plants had faces, humans wouldn't keep eating bananas from the wrong side.
Gary yourofsky would eat them alive
I wish I could see that someday. I guess it's never gonna happen.
Gary Yourofsky My Hero
Rana Kordahi - Limitlessminds fist bump to that
Yourofsky is an activist and not a nutritionist. Neal Barnard is unbeatable.
And Gary would also add: "That's the only time you're supposed to eat someone with a face!" LoL!
Vegetarian for 11 years, and vegan for almost 2. And I am significantly healthier today than over 11 years ago.
talkingheadzzz HECK YEAH! Hard not to be healthy on educated whole food, plant based nutrition!
+Yaqub Ali They'll say yes, because if they could avoid their own slaughter, they would. Therefore vegans feel they should have the same unalienable rights as humans.
First, selfishness is not an actual thing that exists. it's an abstract conceptual tool of a highly evolved social system. Like justice, it's nothing more than an idea. But, following your moral judgement, you should starve because plants are both alive and sentient. Unless you think that some forms of life are worth less than others. In which case, what makes your ideals any better than a meat-eaters?
Second, the 'cost' you complain of is not an issue with meat-eaters- it's with politicians, policy makers, and lobbyists. I get discounts from my insurance company based on life choices, if you don't, maybe consider a different company.
Let's not go down the bullshit 'health' road. Eating a bunny has never caused someone heart disease. CHRONIC OVER-CONSUMPTION does. So, let's be clear.
Your arguments have been based on false ideas, incorrect blame placing, and overemotional wispy willy-nilly moral imperatives born from the evolutionary social ether.
Let's face it, you don't like animal eaters. It's ok. You're an American, and you have the right to dislike whatever you please. But please don't confuse your opinions and feelings with actual facts.
Andréas Remis PLANT BASED VEGAN
It's, at best, only KIND OF factual. Let's get a little bit closer to fact: The meat, dairy, and fish industries are seriously changing current ecological systems, to the extent that environmental pressures have caused a dramatic decline in some species (and possibly extinction).
The question is, so what? Do we have a responsibility to do everything in our power to freeze the evolutionary process in its tracks? If we do, where does that imperative come from? Either it's plucked at will from the ether of your mind, or you must posit some cause for its independent existence, God maybe?
If it's true that going vegan is best for the environment, then it follows that the last 3.5 billion years has been a sub par existence for all animal species and that ecological systems do not and cannot benefit from the existence of predators...except that's not true is it? It's patently false, therefore your statement that "going vegan is what is best for the environment" is either an overemotional reaction, a lie, or just spoken from ignorance.
It's not like we're the first species to radically change the environment. Did you think the previous global warming and cooling cycles happened by magic?
Now if you'd like to change your proposition to one that states that chronic over-consumption and mass-industrialization of animals is ultimately harmful to all, then we can agree. But the extremist view that humans must be vegan is simple nonsense.
Andréas Remis PLANT BASED VEGAN
You are so totally wrong. Agreeing that mass industrialization is bad is not the same as promoting veganism. There's a whole gamut between those extremes. Veganism seeks the total cessation of the killing of animals for food, and animal byproducts (and most seek to avoid any exploitation of animals). That is not even kind of, sort of, maybe what I said.
On the next count: We are not the only animals that "mass breed and kill animals". Another totally false statement. Ants do it too. They herd and harvest honeydew from aphids, they intentionally over cultivate fungi (which destroys local flora and fauna populations), and at least one species herds and farms beetles for their protein-rich chitinous scales.
We are NATURALLY omnivores. Even if you choose to live vegan, you are an omnivore. You were born to consume calories, even in the form of bunny flesh.
The latest trend in warming may not be due to human intervention. The warming cycle began prior to human industrialization. This is the first time global climate change has been studied, so the jury is still out. Should we seek cessation of mass industrialization of foods, sure. Veganism, what?
Neal Barnard is an amazing speaker. I love hearing his well educated, to the point arguments.
I thought the farmer was tedious. I feel like the time I endured listening to his round about arguments was wasted. Not understanding rebuttals and forever repeating the same lines.
I appreciate that Neal was able to bring every tired sentence of the farmers back to actual facts, studies and large scale trials.
Yes that farmer was tedious and rude. So was the other with his sarcasm. They really didn't carry out their message in the best way possible. How can you? In the end you're still killing someone who doesn't want to be killed.
The farmer's closing remarks used the same strategy as the tobacco industry by saying that scientific studies show both sides of the argument are right, depending on the study and who did it. "Confusion is our product!" Every study has to be judged for credibility on its own merits, including the source of the funding. The more I study this topic, the more I am convinced that a fully plant based food system is the only sustainable option, and a fully plant based diet offers the best chance of a long and healthy life, assuming it is done properly.
No, he is not! Claiming that humans can survive on plants only is a big lie? For short time, maybe yes and some might even be healthy but they would need to supplement!
Joel's farm was highlighted in the documentary "Cowspiracy." It was proven in the documentary that even this type of farming is not sustainable environmentally, actually it is even worse than industrial farms. I really wish the environment was discussed more in this debate
the "against" side should have immediately lost the debate the moment they said "plants tho" (a.k.a. the stupid claim that plants are sentient).
+Whetherx Wait. You're saying you're valueless and I can just put you down? Don't you think that's weird?
+Whetherx So, you're saying, that if you saw someone cutting down a tree, you'd act eactly the same as if you saw some in the park, trying to kill a dog, by chopping it up bit by bit with a chainsaw?
adam kimmⓋ What a weirdo aye. Although I might also be upset at someone chopping a tree down.
+brightgeistmovies Yes. The moderator should have slammed the microphone against his own head in a futile attempt to drive out the rubbish that he had just heard.
+brightgeistmovies Or when Joel actually came up with the argument that planting a tomato actually killed many "animals" because of all the bacteria in the soil.
"plants have faces..." *face palm*
It is good to see Hungarian vegans here ;)
Palm face
OH MY GOD
Face palm = a palm plant with a face
@@OdinsSage Holy shit, anti-case in point!
No one is defending factory farms???? Am I the only one who sees this as a huge oversight? That statement is huge! Why isn't it enough to end the debate entirely? Let's stop dividing ourselves with stupid discussions about our disagreements in the illusory world of humanly raised meat and instead start focusing on what's actually happening in the world right now. As long as factory farming makes up 90% of meat production, and both sides agree that they should be abolished, why the fuck should we waste time spinning our wheals about some rare form of alternative meat production before we've dealt with this critical issue?! Let's first come together and abolish factory farming. Only then should we debate subtleties.
Don't eat anything with a face is not the same as don't eat 90% of anything with a face. It was explained quite well in the first round of the debate that there are foods that had faces in the markets that are not factory produced that are a valid part of the statement being debated.
I will have to say that even the issues with why factory farming is bad is different from each side, - horrible living conditions vs. poor nutritional quality of the meats due to the growing conditions as well as any additional chemicals used to get to that point of growth before harvesting. It's bad either way you look at it, but I'm of the thought that the latter reasons are more important than the former as to why you shouldn't eat factory raised meats.
grant kohler Whatever reason you have for objecting factory farmed meat is fine by me. And If you want to debate something small just for arguments sake, that's fine too. All I'm saying is that if we both agree that factory farming should be abolished (which it sounds like you do), then it doesn't matter why or how we do it. We just need to work like hell to end it as soon as possible. Please promote small scale operations as much as you can. Our children will thank us one day for getting our shit together and ending this madness before it destroyed the planet.
This would increase the price of meat, encouraging a healthier balanced diet too. Down with factory farms... I'd fiend, but it would be for the greater good.
Kris Driver I've heard it said that "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." One should always be cautious when doing things for "The Greater Good", Unintended consequences have a way of ruining good deeds. This is just a warning, 'cause in this case I think it'd be cool.
Nothing wrong with eating from the discount meat bin man, higher prices doesn't have to mean some can't afford it, the bins will still be there. $2.50 for a set of pork chops in an age where coffee can run you $5 a cup or more is too cheap for people to eat responsibly.
what does "dress an animal" mean? "its a euphemism for slaughter, it sounds nicer" my damn jaw hit the floor. if what you are doing is just, moral and necessary, why do you have to create evasive language to describe it?
Duress is the word I believe he said . It sounds similar and makes sense to his point
Dressing food is a common term.
Like dressing a salad
Dressing a salad would be akin to seasoning a steak not slaughtering an animal by that logic its jot anything like dressing a salad lol.
It’s a broad term, I didn’t say it was exactly the same procedure as dressing a salad. It just means preparing for eating.
Just like how we also don’t say we tortured and killed the broccoli when we cooked it’s carcus Alive.
People always dismiss plants conscious ability.
Listen to this podcast, it might just change you’re mind www.wnycstudios.org/story/smarty-plants
@@liammorgans7329 animals eat more plants. Wanna save life or think plant lives matter? Go vegan.
Dr Neal Bernard SMASHED IT!
The video could have ended after his opening argument.
He sure did. Love that man. Go Dr. Barnard
His partner did as well.
agreed. His logic was invincible to other debaters
Did you miss the part where he didn’t quote one peer reviewed, double blind clinical trial about red meat?
There is also zero evidence we need fibre. Zero.
1 Hours through and jeeze, the vegans are slam dunking those meat eaters. The meat eaters are acting SO immature and irrational. The owner of farm sanctuary is who made me go vegan, I wrote a paper about farm sanctuary when I was 12. So thanks to him!!
*****
You're a troll right?
If not then dayuuumm you sure are proving further that meat eaters are immature and irrational.
+Biz Markymark Funny, because all you have done is claim they are wrong and you are right. What critical examination led you to this conclusion so i can evaluate it?
***** Anecdotal? Neil Barnard has published his own research and even his opponents acknowledged that. All you did was claim he is misleading, then you claim anecdotes are not evidence, tho probably if someone told you they were vegan and felt weak you would probably believe them, because it agrees with what you want to be true.
Reading your comments you show a clear bias and negative emotions against veganism and all you can do is use ad hominem attacks and claim you are the one with critical thinking skills, hmmmm
***** You sound so credible when you make nothing, but vague statements.
+Biz Markymark Anecdotal evidence is bad, but all meat eater arguments i hear are "my grandma is 106 and eats meat therefore meat is healthy".
I almost wish that the pro meat side had been better represented and had someone with a medical background. it was kind of embarrassing how throw away and mocking their comments were. Neil wiped the floor with them using medical evidence from his clinical trials.
Well Chris Masterjohn is a nutritional researcher. I did think it was interesting how he presented very, very few actual studies and focused most of his energy on the facts towards screaming about correlation and causation.
His medical trials are extremely general and don't prove anything. We don't know what other foods those people ate, whether they did any sports etc. His studies are worthless.
Is it me or that man on the right is totally lack of arguments.
20:00 how in the world his digestion worsen following a Vegan lifestyle?
I'm sure he was just eating bread all day possibly white bread O.o
I been a vegan for two years and my digestion is way better than before. :D
what an stupid arse meat lobby, that pro meat debater you can tell that's not him in the story he makes about hes failing health, he feels so estranged from the story it wouldn't surprise me if it was made up, I mean look at him reading
do you need to write it down if u vividly went trought it.
i agree. I would like to his personal diary of log of his lifestyle transition when he was a vegetarian & when he turned vegan don't you think.
I know a guy who went vegan and diet... Eat meat and live people! If it has a face, forage!
James Cater and ive known many people who continue to eat meat and have died. "I work in a hospital and I have not met 1 patient that was vegan that was sick "
My mother was a vegan, she died seven years ago from pancreatic cancer. Anecdotal evidence is a retarded way to make up ones mind...
44:40 - My risk of Cancer is very low on this Vegan Diet. But my risk for brain cancer just went way up after hearing his guy spew crap about meat and cancer risk not being directly correlated.
+Proton2112
You clearly haven't meet the internet's definition of "cancerous" yet.
Let me explain: ....You
Z-Scart LOL
I know. I feel like a just had a lobotomy after listening to Chris Masterjohn.
LMAO
Can you provide one peer reviewed, double blind clinical trial that shows that red meat is bad for you?
I’ll wait.
(You won’t find one by the way)
Science 101: epidemiological studies are not conclusive or compelling in any way.
obviously the issue is ethics...the farmers won't understand this when their salary depends on them not understanding...
This is Upton Synclair.
Dr Neal Barnard is a superstar
+tk2 Ktt do u think hes handsome?
He's a super soy boy
tk2 Ktt literally. He has a rock band :)
Dr. Neil Barnard is my hero! LDl from 210 to an excellent 42. So happy that I am plant based now.
He’s a liar. What are you talking about?
He quotes epidemiological studies and tries to smuggle it in as science.
Science 101: Epidemiological studies are not conclusive evidence bud.
Idiotic debate when "farmer" talks about plants being sentient beings.
+TrailMonkey I know, why didn't the moderator interrupt and correct him? It's basic science...
This was a great debate. I think its pretty hard to beat the vegans... Arguing to keep the slaughterhouse in business is never easy.
How is the industrialisation of meat consumption in any way the same as regular old farming?
The vegans have NO arguments against that.
***** a slaughterhouse is a place of needless death no matter how small.
Damn, now i hear the brainwash, have a good life.
***** I will. Do your best to let others have a life too.
You vegans think you are so morally superior and its so fucking funny.
I mean just looking to those 2 "groups" of man, It seams to me the vegan ones look more healthy, smarter, human, the other "group" look sleazy to me
oh and maybe its just me, but meat eaters dont just give facts but attack, and they say by them self they are negative....
+Ida Solc I agree
+Ida Solc The truth must scare you guys! Try listening to or reading some facts every now and then.
www.scientificamerican.com/article/should-humans-eat-meat-excerpt/
www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
www.scientificamerican.com/article/should-humans-eat-meat-excerpt/
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120420105539.htm
www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273
+Wonderful Reality Lol nice try showing biased articles on pro meat and no peer reviewed literature.
I felt the exact same way, I received a horrible sleezy approach from them...
Neal Barnard is a polite snarling beast of a debater, although it helps to be on the side of objective truth. My respect for Salatin has evaporated - he's clearly "talking his book".
Actually most of his arguments are straw men or just cherry picked data, but they look very pleasant on the surface.
I feel like donating money to him. It looks like he hasn’t eaten in 30 days.
Holy Cow- a lot of hindus and budhists in India are vegetarians and live pretty healthy and happy lives
What's your point?
fred col the point is if we can live without meat it means its unnecessary. if it is unnecessary it means that you are not killing for survival you are killing for enjoyment and pleasure and that is wrong
***** agreed. We need to eat to live, we need not kill to eat. Humans kill for taste preference, convenience, culture, and tradition not survival.
snowj720 spot on
They also don't wash their grain like most westernized, industrial countries. Therefore, they are getting a lot of insect parts in their grain, much needed nutrients.
2/3 of the planet's surface isn't suitable for growing crops? That would be the water...
+Charlie Merrell WOW. LOL. Did he really say that?!
Thing is we actually can grow crops on water, we're not great at it yet, but it's doable.
Don't Eat Anything With A Face
+Lichtblick What if one were to draw a face on a veggie?
Meat is for pussies
My girlfriend is not going to like that statement 😉
Rob Miller yeah my cat loves meat. So?? What the hell does that have to do with anything
@@SuperEthan5. well cats are natural carnivore. This does not mean that we(humans) have to kill thousands of pigs,cows,goats,fishes... So that 1 cat can live.
20:00 funny how i had exactly the opposite reaction to going vegan - more energy, better digestion, lowered stress and anxiety, better athletic performance etc.
It's quite possible that he was ill informed on proper vegan habits, as well as that's not a very stable age in life due to the various probably new economic factors and social conditions in his life. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, I'm still an omnivore, but it wasn't the best example of the night - too many undisclosed factors involved.
grant kohler I don't know. I really don't see how you could have bad digestion on a vegan diet. The vast majority of vegan foods are pretty high in fiber. If he hasn't even researched how to properly eat vegan, then that pretty much invalidates his argument in my opinion.
Yep, it's quite possible he did it on a whim and a prayer with little research other than word of mouth. He may have overlooked a vegetable group or two, be they fruits, or grains, or beans, leafy greens, etc. that weren't part of his diet before.
I was thinking on vitamin and mineral imbalances as to his diet. There may also be a form of system shock due to rapid changes in his eating routine - he may have had several while looking for a system that worked for his situation. We can say that most likely had two such occasions, switching to a moderate vegetarian with dairy, and then going vegan.
Also there was the matter of some form of pre-existing mental conditions, so there is the mind/body equation to keep in mind. For me, the mind/body equation has only occurred when I desired to show I was unhappy with the world, oh, and also when I was sick with fever or cold I'd take appropriate medicines for it but deliberately ignore the symptoms, because in my line of work, if you don't work - you don't get paid.
There may have also been unexpected consequences with any proscribed or self medications if any were being used. There are instances of certain foods altering the effectiveness (aka reactions) of medications upon the body.
I think the last point of possible contention is a form of the second point. This is that going on a diet doesn't work where as altering what and how you eat, aka your current diet, does. I don't understand much about this except that it has been explained to me as a matter of point of view, and is related to mental addiction (the mind desires it) as opposed to physical addiction (the body expects the arrival of the chemical and instinctively reacts to offset that chemical's effects on the body's natural state of awareness) Basically, he still wanted the meat that he wasn't allowing himself to have, so it was mentally a form of self punishment, which causes undue stress, which is a known catalyst for ailments.
I don't think there is any luxury to a vegan diet, except maybe the luxury of owning land to grow your own.
My two problems with the subject of not eating meat products are the commercialism aspect, and that our ecology requires us to eat the body parts of other organisms. To this second point, we have to kill to remain alive, any argument against killing our food requires deliberate willful ignorance of this simple fact, so I don't find this as a valid basis unless you are waiting for your vegetables to live out their natural lives as well. To my first problem, here goes. Vegetable bacon, Tofurky, and other products that are deliberately artificial meats and artificial dairy. How much have the vegetables been processed to become as animal meat without having been in an animal? At least give it a different name, and eliminate the inference of meat upon the vegan diet. Again, this is a matter of salesmanship and greed, and not, at least initially, part of the vegan or vegetarian cultures.
So, as long as a person doesn't show a mindset encouraging my two pet peeves on this subject, then I've got no beef with them [sic].
There are perfectly healthy ways of being vegetarian and vegan as well as omnivorous, we haven't yet evolved to live forever, even the vegetables haven't evolved this much. Those with longer lives have not successfully procreated as much.
This line of thought leads to the more ominous yet important matter of human population levels and how much is too much for the ecology to naturally be able to bear? I think it's obvious we've exceeded that point, so how far can we push the envelope before the ecology collapses irrevocably? I don't know! I think veganism is only a delay mechanism of world hunger, to push the bigger problem of population control to the back of our minds for some other generation to make the hard choice. We may not like it, but at least China is active in this department.
Old man ranting again, I hope I didn't get too much off-point.
are you still vegan?
@@sabrinekc Most vegans give up and eat meat after 5 years so the chances are he/she isn’t vegan after at least 7 years.
"I went vegan and I got sick tho"
"Plants tho"
"Evolution tho"
"Carnivores tho"
"Grass-fed free range tho"
"Meat is nutritious tho"
"Jesus and Mohammed tho"
I wish I could have been there to hand out carnists excuses bingo cards where each square has one of these lame excuses/justification. It would be hilarious when Salatin started going on about plants feeling pain that somebody in the audience would have jumped up and shouted "BINGO", I have bingo! And everybody else groans because with the excuses flying so thick and heavy from the meat side nearly everyone would have been close to getting bingo too.
Has anybody else noticed how much more aggressive the meat eaters are in this video?
+LambrettaFunk That's just because they're know they're wrong and fucked in the long run, it's compounded because they have financial interests in using and killing animals.
LambrettaFunk I don't think that we should be insulting them for their feelings for a topic,
Uh no, it is not an insult to state the truth. if the truth is so insulting to someone, they should change their ways.
"plants are sentient beings."
Of all the places to hear this unreasonable projection... lol.
Seriously, there's absolutely no scientific basis for that statement.
What is your definition of being sentient?
Dusk, I am sorry, I must say whoever claims that plant is being sentient, whether he is a plant lover extremely to the point that it is insane, or it is a stupid ignorance excuses of those who love eating meat and resist for change no matter what. I do not know what type of person you are fall in to two categories, I don't know. If you cut a carrot, it has no blood, it has no back bone and nerves systems to signal its pains to it brains to make it feel pain, learn more biology lessons and come back and tell me pains feel pain. The only way any living beings feeling pains if they have a brain and nerve systems to signal the pains that they are able to feel pains, without nerve systems there are never a case of feeling pains, do not try to make excuses for your stupid and no compassion and merciful feelings for some one eles except yourself, I hate to hear hypocrite statement to related animals to plant that they do feel pains, stop being ignorant and being selfish and being selfish to fool yourself and others.
1963huong > I must say whoever claims that plant is being sentient ... is insane, or it is a stupid ...
What basic characteristic must a thing have to be sentient?
For example, if I freeze a human who has a nervous system, is he sentient?
Your question is raising in a different story, Firstly, when you say " if you freeze.." we are talking about naturally it is already biological designed by God, not by artificial generic engineering by human" but also, maybe I can answer your question if you freeze a human to a point that he is dead then his nervous system has been dead, then he is no longer to be existed just like a corps, may be u can argue that he still has a soul inside his dead body like Buddhism think, but nobody can prove that until now. For that I do not have evidence or proof to say, but for Christianity, they think when a human die, they return to the earth and no longer to be existed or take in another form for another generation as in Buddhism think. Then to my opinion without religious belief involved then once a nervours system is being frezze forever, then that dead body is no longer to be sentient. Hope it helps.
when you can't use the word slaughter & you have to cover up with DRESS....u know u have no point lol
Katie Pecotich that's exactly what I thought when he said that
At that moment he lost this debate. Lol
That term has been used for hundreds of years. When you hunt you field dress the animal. I really don't care what anyone eats just saying it's been called dressing the animal since the 1400s
The second guy who is advocating against sounds like a meat eater who used thesaurus to make a speech...
'dress' the animals. if it's so good why would we use weird euphemisms??
They should've had Gary Yourofsky in this debate tbh
Yourofsky will never be invited to these kinds of debates since he's seen as a controversial figure...He wouldn't do it anyway since he's done with speaking.
I know, I was kind of joking.
That would had made a complete massacre of the debate!
Gary Yourofsky is an activist he can't be here. Dr Barnard beat them
The movie cowspiracy, which came out after this debate, covers the topic of pasture raised farming. It shows clearly that pasture raised animals would require much more available land than if we didn't eat any animals. Definitely a movie everyone should see.
Meat eater all of a sudden becomes a lover of plants. Despite eating plants himself; and having his animals eat plants. It's actually very easy to just take the existing plant based agriculture and eat it ourselves. Heavily reduce with the view to stopping animal ag; and then not wasting what we have by feeding it all to animals.
How did the pro side not capitalize on making the against look like idiots for claiming a plant is as sentient as an animal...
What is your definition of being sentient?
If something can experience qualia then it is sentient. If it can experience pain, experience pleasure, experience hunger, etc.
there was a lot of things the pro side didn't argue very well mainly because that doctor guy was only equipped with health reasons (which he did really good in) and the farm sanctuary guy was only really equipped the ethical arguement. I wish they got someone like gary l francione.
***** Gary francione? Ill have to look this man up
oceanceaser studies have been done which show that plants communicate with eachother, feel pain and respond to pleasure variables.
The propositions point is we cannot avoid killing life to live but we can reduce total aggregate suffering. We have to eat to live, given this fact(not belief) then our moral obligation is to do this whilst avoiding causing ANY living being to suffer UNNECESSARILY. Our best effort would be to eat plants directly instead of killing many more plants by also feeding billions of other animals that we in turn eat. So the diet that causes the least UNNECESSARY suffering is a plant based diet.
Not to mention that the concept of pain makes no sense for plants without nervous systems. It would also make no sense for them to evolve that capability either since they thrive on being eaten to spread their seeds unlike animals.
The vegans won this one.
Thankfully I no longer eat animals. Would you eat your pet cat/dog? I don't believe it is possible to be spiritual and yet still fill your face with animal flesh
Lee Ryan Of course it is possible to eat meat and be spiritual. The vast majority of the most holy of men are omnivores, Jesus himself included. Peter was a fisherman. John the Baptist ate butter (dairy) and honey (also crickets, etc., to my recollection). Abraham had his sheep, etc. The common judges of Israel in ancient times ate meat that was offered in temples as a sacrifice, etc. And quite a few vegans I have talked to on UA-cam are definitely anything BUT godly.
Being spiritual has to do with living in such a way that you will be completely comfortable, at peace in the presence of God, angels, etc. It has very little to do with what you eat. Now, if you are a murderer, torture-murderer, a pedophile, a rapist, an adulterer, involved in witchcraft, theft, criminal activities, deception of any kind, drunkenness, filthy language, homosexuality, bestiality, cruelty, wicked imaginings, pornography, drug use, lustfulness/masturbation, gossiping, backbiting, worldliness, lack of mercy/compassion, materialism, starting fights/being contentious, taking advantage of others, idleness, coveting, dishonoring parents, pride, vandalism, cheating, selfishness, etc., yeah, these kinds of things are directly related to morality, and they DO matter to God, aka, they definitely impact our spiritual selves in a negative way if we indulge. Of course we are involved in good things, but lets be real here. Eating meat is not a sin, never has been, never will be. Animals were given to man for meat and for raiment, from Adam until now. ...Godly men are not gluttonous, however, esp. if they are VERY holy men-prophets, apostles, etc. And it is VERY easy to eat too much meat-few people eat too much plant foods. The fiber in plant foods lets your body know when to stop eating.
Where do you folks get such kooky ideas about "carnivores" or, more accurately, human omnivores being evil??? REALLY?
+Lee Ryan This seems to be, as with the gender issue, a classic case of one certain kind of liberal ignoring biology. We are omnivores. That means what is ideal is a healthy combination of both. Lean healthy meat (salmon grilled chicken) with vegetables. I don't appreciate being told I'm a decadent when I'm eating a healthy diet and attempting to be well informed about nutrition. But some vegans act as though someone cannot be an omnivore and healthy.
sam little Exactly. :)
+sam little If we were meant to eat, we would eat the whole thing like lions do....the fur, the bones, the organs, and eat it raw. Real carnivores eat the whole thing not just seasoned, cooked, choice cuts. Lions' canines are proportionately much longer than a human canine.
Njjoy16 but I never argued that the human mammal was a carnivore.
Going vegan w/ proper supplementation is the best option for health and the environment.
***** Yes, most meat eaters have b12 deficiency! lol Irony. But I am always thinking in terms of optimum, long-term health. Meat eaters need even more supplementation to try and counteract all the acidity and other negative aspects of the food they eat.
Al Kohrs Why not the rest of the world go vegan, and then help the third world countries out of their unfair circumstances?
Andréas Remis If we stop eating meat what are we going to do with carnivore animals? Because they will continue to eat animals regardless. Are we going to exterminate all the carnivores?
Kevin Afton Carnivore animals do not have the choice to eat meat or not. Carnivore animals do not build factory farms to raise and slaughter the animals they eat. Carnivore animals do not need to use Earth's resources to feed the animals they eat. The meat and dairy industries that humans created are the single biggest contributor to climate change and world hunger.
Andréas Remis "Carnivore animals do not have the choice to eat meat or not." But you didn't stop suffering, they suffer even more being eaten alive than being stunned and slaughtered. I thought you wanted to stop suffering.
2. Climate change is an ongoing debate and it's not something proven without a shadow of doubt or accepted by everybody.
3. You cannot solve world hunger just by going vegan, it has nothing to do with it. Thats just an emotional argument.
"Eating things with faces is great" ehm, last time I checked LIVING animals are creatures like you and me. Not things :(
+maryjosiecom Right on! I'm soooo glad you said something about that. It was bothering me from the get-go. I ALWAYS try to refer to animals as either "someone's", or "somebody's." ANYTHING but a "thing"! Btw- when talking to a hunter during hunting season, I like to ask "So, did you kill anyone on your hunting trip?" Once I pose that question in that way, BION, I can pretty much count on having a surprisingly wholesome dialectic with them [I am a very easy going AR activist who tries to never reveal my Pro-AR allegiance. If I 'out' myself, that pretty much precludes a productive discussion, and that's too bad. :( ]
The motion says, "anything with a face." Therefore, within the context of the argument, saying "things" is correct. Is the motion, "don't eat anyone with a face?" No.
Marley James Yeah but I am pretty sure he was talking about animals.
So does the motion. "Anything with a face" means animals. We're all things. Don't be so offended.
Don't tell me what I am and what to be lol.
Cringe. They really didn't find better people to argue for meat? It's not too surprising since you can't really find smart and passionate meat-eaters. Arguing for veganism is basically arguing against murder. Out of all the different social justice topics, arguing for veganism is by far the easiest.
^
I think it's harder for people to understand veganism because they don't have a connection to the animals. Arguing with people who have never been able to perceive farmed animals as sentient individuals makes it harder.
Don't eat anything that has a mother and eyes!
There needs to be more of these debates. The more people see how ridiculous the pro meat side is the more people go vegan
+VeganViet Ⓥ There has been extremely few debates in this context. I wonder why....
VeganViet Ⓥ it is a great debate for sure. While Neal and Jim nailed it, the pro meat eaters did an excellent job arguing against such a difficult case. Show respect and kindness. don't make vegans look like a self righteous cult.
B Johnson BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE INTELLEGANT
Vegan Viet I strongly agree with you on that.
MMMMMmmmm....bacon is delish!
My life on meat- diagnosed with diabetes. My life after one year vegan- normal.
Your diabetes is probably due to high sugar in diet, and perhaps due to simple carbs.
@@Success4peace you don’t understand the etiology of diabetes given that statement. With the advancement of electron microscopy, we are able to see it is the intramyocelluar lipids that disturbs the pathway for insulin to transport glucose into the cells.
nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-what-causes-insulin-resistance-diabetes/
That farmer is obviously the least objective in this debate, because he has so much to lose over the spread of plant-based diet. And many of his points are asinine, ridden with logical fallacies.
I think that was the best moderator I've ever seen doing for a debate. intelligence turn kept on the point did what a moderator should do, lead the discussion. I also enjoyed him not allowing any personal attacks. This overall was a golden debate. Although I still choose not to eat meat the arguments to the opposition were interesting and fairly well thought-out
"Plants are sentient"... I'm out.
When listening to a debate it's important to ask what will these panelist gain from their stance? Clearly if people started to adopt a vegan lifestyle Joel would no longer make profits from his animal farm.
It's amazing how the guy that argues for eating meat felt it necessary to continuously make jokes, use personal attacks, and utilize completely ridiculous arguments.
+Freedom vs Tyranny He s the Donald Trump of meat bizness
Moretime´s Studio Lol, good one!
+Moretime´s Studio best joke I heard today
haha i love how dr. barnard say with the first argument " you where mental ill before, under and after you were a vegan." Debunkd his whole first speech.
I saw this debate when it first came out. Been vegetarian for 20 years and vegan for 8 of those years. Thank you for posting here. Everyone should see how this is done intelligently.
Dr. Barnard is the best!! :)
just watched this from start to finish and it was great!
It should be "Don't eat *anyone* with a face"
Animals are not things.
I stopped eating meat when I was about seven, I did it for the animals, but the side effects were to stop suffering from asthma, gastritis and getting sick with the common cold. It's been 37 years and I feel amazing! I know now that you don't need to eat animals to be healthy. I get a lot of my B vitamins including B6, B7,B8, B12 from kombucha tea and other probiotic rich foods. I also eat a lot of sprouted grains and seeds. I have a pretty balanced diet and everybody says I look decades younger than most people my age. Imake my own meats (vegan) and cheeses (vegan) and I save a lot of money on grocery shopping. My only regret It's not being born vegan. Being vegan is good for everyone, no body needs to get slaughtered for food anymore. Plants don't have a nervous system and it's false that they could be and feel like us animals.
Wooow, you're like a supervegan :D lovely
The pro meat farmer looks like a ghoul.
Wanna know why vegans are depressed? because they care! and people that know how fucked up is the world will always have that sadness inside them. ignorance is happiness
Such a Great Point. Wish we had more people thinking the way you do. Hopefully one day our stress will lead into Ultimate change for the better
My thoughts exactly!
Everytime I put my teeth into a fresh plump of broccoli, I block out the screams as I devour it. The children broccoli weep as their parent is being chewed down.
The opening statement of the first meat eater. He says he serves them (animals) before he eats breakfast, but then his breakfast consists of their dead bodies.Typical serial killer logic.
Nutritional Yeast = B12 = delicious
Did anyone else notice that the further the debate got the more and more nervous the two meat enthusiasts got. At the end you can even see them bibbering and all searching through their papers having a total chaos on their desks and also getting way more emotional in a aggressiv manner through the debate while the Vegans stayed calm. I for myself got vegan before 6 days and until now i feel a lot of improvement on my thoughts and feelings.
for Chriss Master Jhon, debater min 19 til 24, I instruct you with this:
VITAMIN A - apricots, asparagus, bean sprouts, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cantaloupe, carrots, cayenne, celery, chili powder, grapefruit, green leafy vegetables, mangos, mint, okra, papaya, paprika, parsley, passion fruit, peas, pistachios, plums, prunes, pumpkins, squash, sweet potato, sweet red peppers, tomatoes, tofu, watercress, watermelon, yams. zucchini
all on the list is yummy!
+luismiguel andrew Vitamin A is a fat dependent molecule, you have to eat fat with it in order for it to absorb in the body. So what you just described is a situation where you would simply just shit massive amount of vitamin A.
+troyerjl1 And, just eat some avacodes, with the apricots of grapefruit. Problem solved.
+troyerjl1 Please direct yourself to adam kimm's comment. You will absorb an amazing amount of vitamin A especially more than meat. A salad full of greens, onions, avocados, not to mention more veg, and you'll hit your DRI in seconds.
that dude is clearly dumb
“Plants are sentient beings” 😂 you can’t make this shit up.
They are. They communicate with each other.
Native Americans believed all living beings were sentient with spirits.
Something else strikes me about this. The "against " side seemed to be more angry or riled up in their behavior than the "Pro" side. I don't know if this means anything or not, just something I noticed. And the "against" guy who has a farm has a lot at stake personally if he loses this argument, whereas the others don't have farms they are trying to keep going. But I am glad they all disagree that factory farms need to go.
Using personal experiences when trying to make sound debate is pointless. Use science based evidence.
I always get a urge to puke everytime an animal abuser/meat eater claims vegetables have faces or have feelings or feel any pain. They don't care.
Dr. Neal Barnard wrote a book that helped change my life, it's called Breaking the Food Seduction. I read it in the summer of 2011, and continued to eat animal products for about six months and then decided to finally take the leap into the void - that was a vegan lifestyle. I was chronically ill all the time, and was DESPERATE to feel better. As I went vegan, I did feel much, much better... but I was a junk food vegan. I read other information, on many raw foodists, vegan tri-athletes... and it was not until I went high raw that some really crazy cool stuff began to happen... I felt the effects of euphoria through my nutrient dense food choices, my energy levels began to soar, I lost stubborn weight that would not come off no matter how much I exercised, and all illnesses vanished. I assure you, nutrients are the answer, real food, plant foods... I love Barnard for what he does, and I thank him for writing the book that was the first source for me to come across and change my life for the better, forever.
Joel is the worst debater I've seen in the series.
It's amazing how much more civil the vegetarian side is.
NOOOO not the canine teeth argument. I am DYING here.
A great representation of how a debate should be. A class act by all including the moderator!
Dr. Barnard is so damn well-spoken and charming that the other guys don't have much of a chance. (And I'm a meat-eater.)
Ouch...the pro-meat side is coming off so dumb. I was hoping there would be a better defense.
+Iskander “Izzy” Aminov Really?
TopShotta To me it seemed that way. What are some of the best points you heard them make?
that's because there are no defenses aside from "it tastes good"
you think its the food that did it? :D
Really?
Can you provide one peer reviewed, double blind clinical trial that shows that red meat is bad for you?
I’ll wait.
(You won’t find one by the way)
Science 101: epidemiological studies are not conclusive or compelling in any way.
Thank you for that interesting debate. I appreciate how it was handled. So many debates get out of hand and become a shouting match and who can talk over who. I was interested in the debate the whole time and appreciated both sides of the discussion even though I am a vegan. I will now tune in and watch more of your debates, thanks again for a great platform for people to hear two sides and come to their own conclusion after finding out more information from both sides!
My anxiety was abolished **reads from his script nervously
The guy was very clearly bipolar I would say
just eat plants, live long vibrantly and happily and let the animals live :-) . don't listen to the meat marketing board.
One problem with the argument made here in favor of meat eating is that it is based on a type of farming that is virtually non-existent in the U.S.A. When in opening statement you say we argue for something that has no basis in the facts of meat produced for consumption you are wasting everyone's time. Joel and Chris you wasted our time. The argument for meat consumption is wrong headed even when it is the type of farming you argue for. How much meat is produced the way that they argue for. Less than 5 % is a generous answer.
So you agree with eating meat so long as it's made the way they describe? Or is veganism just a protest movement against the current mass methods?
The problem with the guys argument when he said how can you fertilize vegetables without animals is you can still fertilize vegetables with animals and not kill them you can just have animals on the farm that produce manure and not kill them. In fact by doing so you will have more fertilizer.
They are even barely letting Dr. Neal Barnard speak. Afraid to debate on the reality of health. LOL
So yeah I want to eat way less meat now. Glad to be informed.
This moderator is absolutely amazing.
If everyone agrees factory farming is bad then why are we still doing it?
Can't supply the massive demand without factory farming.
lollll the first guy against , everything he is saying is false ... i mean everything .... ahahahah
Look how healthy and handsome Dr Barnard is!
If Gary Yourofsky was in this debate...game over! lol ;p
Before becoming vegan in 2016 I had been on an anti-depressant for mild depression and anxiety for 10 years.
Now off anti-depressants and feel fantastic. Just had a stem-cell transplant in February for Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma which was diagnosed in Oct 2010 while still consuming meat, dairy & eggs daily. Got through the Stem-cell transplant (as a vegan) with no infections or re-hospitalisation. My haematologist said I was a Star Patiient. Don't think the outcome would have been so good had I still been consuming Animals and there secretions. Also just had a full blood count test done & all good. Protein, Iron, Calcium, B12, Folate, etc.etc. all within normal range. And by the way I am 63 years old and have never felt healthier since going Vegan. Everyday is a good day knowing that I am no longer contributing to the torture, suffering and slaughter of our fellow sentient beings.
I supported the for side. I found the older farm gentleman thoroughly annoying. If meat eating makes you like that, then no thank you! I'll stick to my plants.
I don't think meat eating necessarily makes you that. If you are a conservative person who doesn't care to use fallacious arguments you are likely to stay an animal eater in my opinion though.
Not sure I follow you buddy. Are you saying that the only way the meat eating advocates could win would be through fallacious arguments? If so, I agree with you.
Sorc Erer I meant to imply that by eating meat you don't become like him but if you are like him you are likely to keep eating animals.
Charlie Green I see... Hmmm... That may be the case. Cheers!
Sorc Erer exactly what I was thinking...they don't speak calmly or Clearly & pause alot because they need to think about how they are going to blatantly lie xo