I’m currently in process of engine break in. I had it at idle so I’m taking apart the engine. Had the right Lucas oil break in, sae30, my surface finish was done by flexhone. The rings was Hastings. But rich on gasoline. And the oil was forming on top still. Even before the break in. 😮
We would recommend having someone check the surface finish with a profilometer to make sure it's correct Second, you'll want to make sure the engine isn't run too rich which washes down the cylinder bores of critical lubrication.
Great info! I rebuild 2 strokes (outboards) and since they only run with a smattering of oil, running the rebuilds SLIGHTLY rich is actually good for them since the fuel itself is lubricated. rings still have plenty of bite under load. but you guys at LN know more than me. just something thats worked for me the last 10 years. and startup (initial) is done without load for 2 minutes. thoughts?
We don't have any experience with 2 strokes and I know that is a totally different situation with what we see with our Porsche engines. It's been our experience with 4 stroke engines that having the engine run lean during break in is better than rich. The biggest issue we see are carbs that are jetted to fat and the bores get washed down. We're working closely with Driven and Total Seal to see if we can improve ring break in with use of PVD coatings and assembly lubes specifically optimized for nikasil bores to overcome some of the most common issues associated with these engines.
@@lnengineeringllc Hey thanks for the response! I do know some mercury racing motors and some of their little ones (25hp comes to mind) have Nikasil bores, too. Not easy to get them re-plated only a few guys do it. the . Vertex and WSM pistons I use have that ceramic/teflon coating for break in. Cannot tell you if it helps or not, but never had a failure using those! Cheers.
Uhoh. I just had to repiston my DR650. Suzuki uses nikasil coating on thir jugs too. I just ran a dingleberry hone through to break the glaze and gapped my rings and ran it as such. Gave it hard run in. Hope i didnt mess anything up!
It's unlikely the dingleberry hone did any damage to the nikasil. It probably just deglazed it for you. You'll know right away if something is wrong. If it's not smoking or burning oil, you're good to go!
Lake, I've got 3 variables of ring movement under compression and/or power. (1) An old 1940's auto book said the ring sits in the middle of the grove as the air bubble holds the ring in the middle of the groove. (2) Another one would be the ring is flat on the groove and that seal factor under movement. (3) The last theory is the ring is cocked due to the thrust side of the piston and that one angle on said stroke shows the wear pattern. Who is right? Thanks.
I'm not so sure about an air bubble holding the ring in the middle of the groove, but as Lake often states, oil is the gasket for the piston rings. You have an oil film that seals the ring to the bore and to the piston. However, you do have combustion gasses make their way behind the ring and that's what provides the mechanical pressure that pushes the rings against the cylinder wall. The rings do move in the groove and rotate, so there is lots of movement depending on lots of factors, so there really isn't one right answer. Lastly, with wear, the ring flats really shouldn't wear - the faces do however and as they wear, the end gap opens up. That's why you have an upper wear limit for ring end gaps as that's a good measure of ring face wear.
@@lnengineeringllc Thanks for your honest opinion. I'm just thinking off the wall, and tell me if this sticks? Would you agree. if we took a 4-storke engine and apply: 'It only works one way [fuel/spark/compression], and it only assembles one way'; that's in the absolute, correct? If I apply iowow, do we eliminate 2 of the ring theories? It only wears one way. Pressure to compound, I'm getting a hang on reading a tire. Read a plug, I can hold my own. Now I want to read a ring. See where the madness is going? If I apply Mr. Ohm and his formula matching magnetism, and that is a balance; then I add Newton's law and his understanding of balance in the action-reaction. A says to C, I'm sitting on the groove, I'll be right with you. If you can read the abstract? Said another way; shoot a gun. Bullet hits target, now it recoils at the shoulder.... for every action? E travels at the speed of light or close enough. Heat is magnetism. Pressure is a balance and that fight you are up against. How close are we to; IOWOW 101? Signed, still in the pits after all these years.
If you apply a load to the piston, I thought the combustion gas will try to seep into the ring-wall interface and the ring will contract instead of expand. Only when an engine brake is applied, a vacuum is created and the ring expands.
By design, the combustion gasses get behind the rings and help to ensure positive ring seal with the cylinder bore. Running the crankcase under vacuum is something most modern engines do to improve ring seal when running low tension rings. During break-in, varying loads which also requires utilizing engine braking will ensure the rings seat correctly.
very informative. I got a built engine that was broken in on a bench dyno. I have 3,000 miles on it and bliwby at high boost. staying below 20psi and no blowby. Engine builder says "Never seen rings seal at low boost and not at high boost without their being another cause" 🤔 do you think a stuck ring? no smoke idles, no smoke revving it
So what is your take on a new Toyota 4cyl that specifies 0w16 oil, good protection? Should I drain the new oil and put 30w break in oil? I read an owner of a Toyota that uses 0w16 and replaced with 0w30 and it runs fine.
If you have a new vehicle, the engines are often already run in and come with a fill specific to what the manufacturer recommends. We would defer you to your owners manual for what is recommended for your specific model.
polaris snowmobiles have nicasile cylinder along with other brands. does total seal have lateral gas ported rings for 2 cycle engines and do you know of companies that can do a good job of honing those cylinders?
I would recommend contacting Total Seal as we do not have experience directly with 2 cycle engines. They can provide you better guidance. Sorry we could not be of assistance.
Regarding a stock rebuild on a shovelhead engine, how long do you run it before accelerating to introduce combustion pressure? Do I heat cycle it first, or just give it the beans? Thank you!
I'd do not know specifically about your application, but usually we would recommend doing the cam break in which most manufacturers state 20-30 minutes. I'd use that time to check for leaks, etc. Once that is complete, it would be good to let the engine cool down completely if possible. It's always a good idea to have multiple thermal cycles during the break-in process.
Yes, we have worked closely with Lake Speed Jr. for years and now Total Seal for piston rings for our Nikasil plated cylinders. We mostly do aircooled and watercooled Porsche cylinders, but we do some Rotax 912 and aircooled VW Type 1 and VW Type 4 cylinders as well.
Carrying out a break-in procedure might not be necessary, however, with new cars, probably the best thing you can do it change the oil sooner than the factory recommended service interval.
We would always refer to whatever recommendations the engine builder provides with their engines, but most we work with recommend using a break-in oil for the first 200-400 miles which is what Driven recommends with their break-in oils.
4 stroke Briggs kart motors with sealed block: new motor ises a relatively hi tension ring pkg, AND CHROME FACED.. on an iron sleeve in alum block. Question: I am gathering opinions on this spec motor break-in..... *** Any Ideas?????
Use of a break-in oil in the appropriate viscosity would for sure be highly recommended. Like with any engine, you want to avoid excessive idling and you'll want to alternate between loading and unloading the engine (not sure if decel with engine braking is possible).
Depends on what you use for assembly. The biggest issue would be controlling corrosion and dry start. If the engine isn't going to be started up for a while, you might consider using a thicker assembly lubricant that is going to be less likely to run off.
Great video!! Very good detail! I have a ktm 530. I rehoned the cylindered because after installing a new piston I could see lines in the bore (about 3 hours of use). I had a leak down test of about 4%. I had the cylinder re nikasil. Now the leakdown is 20% and it will not start. I had to use the same rings because they are back-ordered (found out after). The ring gap is within spec. Is there anything that I can do to the rings to seal?
Assuming the cylinders were refinished correctly and that is not the issue, I would not expect the used ring to seal up in a freshly reconditioned cylinder. You'll probably have to pull the engine apart to change the rings out. If the OEM ring is not available, Total Seal can supply replacement rings for most applications.
Should I use a basic non detergent motor oil for break in? Or do I need to get an oil designed for break in? How will I know when I have the engine broken in? And lastly, should I get ZDDP additive for my oil changes thereafter?
A break in oil would be superior to a non-detergent motor oil. Although both are technically non-detergent, a break-in specific oil will have higher levels of ZDDP. After break-in, using the correct oil for the application would make adding a ZDDP or any other sort of additive useless. If you are using an oil that needs an additive, you are using the wrong oil. With regards to when an engine is broken in, that will vary greatly depending on what kind of engine and how it is broken in. The cam and lifters should be broken in within 20-30 minutes of initial startup but piston rings may take hundreds if not thousands of miles to be fully broken in as measured by use of a compression and leakdown test.
I work for a fasteners and tool company. I work on nail and staple guns, air compressors and a few specialized tools. Some of the guns operate on propane gas and has an ignition system that is battery operated. They have steel rings. Almost all of them with two rings per cylinder, will have the ring gap spin around until they line up and lessen compression. Is there a fix for this? I’m restoring my grandfather’s 67 F100 and I want to make certain that I do my best. I have built race engines for karts and a couple of old race cars, before I started to work on the nail guns and didn’t know that it could be a thing.
@@ronniejohnson317 I can't comment on nail guns, but piston rings do rotate in normal operation. In a piston engine, typically the cross-hatch angle will affect the speed of ring rotation. Porsche actually pins the second piston ring in their modern watercooled engines to keep the ring from rotating. The use of gapless rings help overcome this issue.
hi, i just had my 180cc cylinder block rebored to fit 200cc piston and rings.After installation the bike still smokes alittle bit,kindly assist to understand the cause of that and how to solve the problem
Assuming the break-in was done correctly and the rings did seat properly, there are lots of things that could cause smoking, but specific to the cylinders I'd make sure the cylinders are straight and round and that they were properly honed with the correct surface finishes.
So after I install my new rings, I need to run it with conventional oil, and at around 60% throttle or more, correct? I'll be installing the rings on a 16hp cast iron Briggs.
If solely doing a re-ring, yes running a conventional oil is a must. Oil cannot have any friction modifiers such as moly as that will inhibit seating of the rings. Putting a load on the engine as soon as possible after up to operating temperature is the best way to seat the rings as discussed. You want to vary load and engine speed and avoid idling. It is also good to allow several thermal cycles during this process.
So, I just got my piston rings replaced in my Yamaha bike. I am just a little confused since I do not know too much about this. Since I have new piston rights now I have to break in the rings? How long does that usually take? Should I use some cheaper oil until they are broken in or the good mobil 1 oil that I use?
There is indeed a break in procedure for the rings. With nikasil bores seating the rings can take longer than with iron bores. It is especially important to make sure that you don't run the engine rich during break in. If you don't have access to a dyno for break-in, we typically tell customers that it will take at least 1000 miles for the rings to fully seat, but we tell everyone not to run a synthetic or even partial synthetic until you have 3-5k miles on the engine. For sure never use a full or partial synthetic to break in a new engine or even a conventional oil that has moly or similar friction modifiers as that will interfere with the break-in procedure.
Excessive idling on a new engine is not recommended. Without putting a load on the engine, you won't get the rings to seat. A proper break-in procedure always needs to be followed.
Following a proper break in procedure is a must for any new or rebuilt engine. It's best to refer to your engine builder's recommendations as most typically have a prescribed procedure to follow to comply with warranty requirements, however the general principles are the same.
Good question! Many OEMs will either pre-run their engines or ship them on a fill that is not the same as the synthetic recommended and used by the manufacturer for subsequent oil changes. High ZDDP isn't so much needed to protect camshafts and lifters in modern engines, but using a synthetic oil or even a conventional oil with high levels of friction modifiers such as moly can slow down or even prevent the rings from seating properly which can result in higher oil consumption than normal, blowby, and/or smoking. Once the engine has broken in though, using a synthetic oil is perfectly fine.
@@lnengineeringllc How interesting...Thanks! Afterwards for broken-in engines you can use oils with high dose of friction modifies without negative impact?
@@Charkatak Oils with friction modifiers won't cause any issue on engines that are already broken in. Besides increased horsepower and reduced fuel consumption, we tend to see a drop in oil temperature too with oils that have moly in them over non-friction modified oils.
@@lnengineeringllc Great! I just recently started looking into "Used oil analysis" and sent one virgin "Acura synthetic blend" oil for an analysis. The reason for this is because I recently switched from above mentioned synthetic blend to Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra full synthetic oil but I believe when cold engine doesn't sound as quiet as it did with blend oil. What to know if that oil has more moly in it or another friction modifier. Car info: 2010 Acura RL (J37A2 engine) with over 100k miles.
Correct. Nikasil is much harder than steel or cast/ductile iron, so the rings are what wears during break-in. That is why surface finish is so critical with Nikasil bores as well as what lubricant is used as well as tune.
I am replacing the pistons and rings on a Kawasaki 310 jet ski which has Nikasil cylinder lining and was wondering if I need/can/should rehone the cylinder or I should just go ahead gap and cut the rings correctly then break it in using the right oil? Any info is much appreciated.
I am running your Gapless top rings on a BMW 3L straight 6 engine. The engine runs 104DegC(220F) from the factory and burnt the running in oil at around 300 miles. I have noticed that on pulling the plugs that 5 out of 6 cylinders have light oil consumption indicators and smokes a little after idling at the lights for a while. I used a bore-scope and the bores don't look to be glazed. Can I just give it another run with new break-in oil?
LN Engineering isn't the manufacturer of TS rings; we'd advise you speak to Total Seal directly for their recommendation as we do not have any experience with BWM engines as our area of expertise is with Porsche engines. Normally when we see something like this I question if the bores were prepped properly or if the engine was running overly rich during initial run-in, but TS may have some better recommendations for you to follow.
When you have a new (or freshly rebuilt engine), the rings and cylinders must wear into each other before they will seal up. This is referred to "seating" the rings. If the rings don't seat properly, engines can smoke, burn oil, and have low compression and high leakdown numbers.
@@mba2ceo Typically a non-detergent, break-in, or equivalent conventional non-friction modified oil is used for break-in of a new engine. Using a semi-syn, full syn, or any oil containing friction modifiers will negatively affect break-in and will prevent piston rings from seating during break-in.
I’m currently in process of engine break in. I had it at idle so I’m taking apart the engine. Had the right Lucas oil break in, sae30, my surface finish was done by flexhone. The rings was Hastings. But rich on gasoline. And the oil was forming on top still. Even before the break in. 😮
We would recommend having someone check the surface finish with a profilometer to make sure it's correct Second, you'll want to make sure the engine isn't run too rich which washes down the cylinder bores of critical lubrication.
great video lake its fun watching you and learning
Glad you enjoyed it
Great info! I rebuild 2 strokes (outboards) and since they only run with a smattering of oil, running the rebuilds SLIGHTLY rich is actually good for them since the fuel itself is lubricated. rings still have plenty of bite under load. but you guys at LN know more than me. just something thats worked for me the last 10 years. and startup (initial) is done without load for 2 minutes. thoughts?
We don't have any experience with 2 strokes and I know that is a totally different situation with what we see with our Porsche engines. It's been our experience with 4 stroke engines that having the engine run lean during break in is better than rich. The biggest issue we see are carbs that are jetted to fat and the bores get washed down. We're working closely with Driven and Total Seal to see if we can improve ring break in with use of PVD coatings and assembly lubes specifically optimized for nikasil bores to overcome some of the most common issues associated with these engines.
@@lnengineeringllc Hey thanks for the response! I do know some mercury racing motors and some of their little ones (25hp comes to mind) have Nikasil bores, too. Not easy to get them re-plated only a few guys do it. the . Vertex and WSM pistons I use have that ceramic/teflon coating for break in. Cannot tell you if it helps or not, but never had a failure using those! Cheers.
Uhoh. I just had to repiston my DR650. Suzuki uses nikasil coating on thir jugs too. I just ran a dingleberry hone through to break the glaze and gapped my rings and ran it as such. Gave it hard run in. Hope i didnt mess anything up!
It's unlikely the dingleberry hone did any damage to the nikasil. It probably just deglazed it for you. You'll know right away if something is wrong. If it's not smoking or burning oil, you're good to go!
Hey just subscribed excellent information excellent video
Thanks!
Good Stuff,Great Tips 👍🏿😃
Glad you liked it!
Lake, I've got 3 variables of ring movement under compression and/or power. (1) An old 1940's auto book said the ring sits in the middle of the grove as the air bubble holds the ring in the middle of the groove. (2) Another one would be the ring is flat on the groove and that seal factor under movement. (3) The last theory is the ring is cocked due to the thrust side of the piston and that one angle on said stroke shows the wear pattern. Who is right? Thanks.
I'm not so sure about an air bubble holding the ring in the middle of the groove, but as Lake often states, oil is the gasket for the piston rings. You have an oil film that seals the ring to the bore and to the piston. However, you do have combustion gasses make their way behind the ring and that's what provides the mechanical pressure that pushes the rings against the cylinder wall. The rings do move in the groove and rotate, so there is lots of movement depending on lots of factors, so there really isn't one right answer. Lastly, with wear, the ring flats really shouldn't wear - the faces do however and as they wear, the end gap opens up. That's why you have an upper wear limit for ring end gaps as that's a good measure of ring face wear.
@@lnengineeringllc Thanks for your honest opinion. I'm just thinking off the wall, and tell me if this sticks? Would you agree. if we took a 4-storke engine and apply: 'It only works one way [fuel/spark/compression], and it only assembles one way'; that's in the absolute, correct? If I apply iowow, do we eliminate 2 of the ring theories? It only wears one way. Pressure to compound, I'm getting a hang on reading a tire. Read a plug, I can hold my own. Now I want to read a ring. See where the madness is going? If I apply Mr. Ohm and his formula matching magnetism, and that is a balance; then I add Newton's law and his understanding of balance in the action-reaction. A says to C, I'm sitting on the groove, I'll be right with you. If you can read the abstract? Said another way; shoot a gun. Bullet hits target, now it recoils at the shoulder.... for every action? E travels at the speed of light or close enough. Heat is magnetism. Pressure is a balance and that fight you are up against. How close are we to; IOWOW 101? Signed, still in the pits after all these years.
If you apply a load to the piston, I thought the combustion gas will try to seep into the ring-wall interface and the ring will contract instead of expand. Only when an engine brake is applied, a vacuum is created and the ring expands.
By design, the combustion gasses get behind the rings and help to ensure positive ring seal with the cylinder bore. Running the crankcase under vacuum is something most modern engines do to improve ring seal when running low tension rings.
During break-in, varying loads which also requires utilizing engine braking will ensure the rings seat correctly.
very informative. I got a built engine that was broken in on a bench dyno. I have 3,000 miles on it and bliwby at high boost. staying below 20psi and no blowby. Engine builder says "Never seen rings seal at low boost and not at high boost without their being another cause" 🤔 do you think a stuck ring? no smoke idles, no smoke revving it
We would recommend doing a compression and leakdown test, especially the latter to determine where the blowby is coming from.
@@lnengineeringllc turned out 2 pistons broken rings
So what is your take on a new Toyota 4cyl that specifies 0w16 oil, good protection?
Should I drain the new oil and put 30w break in oil?
I read an owner of a Toyota that uses 0w16 and replaced with 0w30 and it runs fine.
If you have a new vehicle, the engines are often already run in and come with a fill specific to what the manufacturer recommends. We would defer you to your owners manual for what is recommended for your specific model.
polaris snowmobiles have nicasile cylinder along with other brands. does total seal have lateral gas ported rings for 2 cycle engines and do you know of companies that can do a good job of honing those cylinders?
I would recommend contacting Total Seal as we do not have experience directly with 2 cycle engines. They can provide you better guidance. Sorry we could not be of assistance.
Regarding a stock rebuild on a shovelhead engine, how long do you run it before accelerating to introduce combustion pressure? Do I heat cycle it first, or just give it the beans? Thank you!
I'd do not know specifically about your application, but usually we would recommend doing the cam break in which most manufacturers state 20-30 minutes. I'd use that time to check for leaks, etc. Once that is complete, it would be good to let the engine cool down completely if possible. It's always a good idea to have multiple thermal cycles during the break-in process.
@@lnengineeringllc thanks for the reply. I appreciate any input!
Wow I was just curious on what to do with this new engine I built and you're holding what looks a VW liner or Cessna engine😊
Yes, we have worked closely with Lake Speed Jr. for years and now Total Seal for piston rings for our Nikasil plated cylinders. We mostly do aircooled and watercooled Porsche cylinders, but we do some Rotax 912 and aircooled VW Type 1 and VW Type 4 cylinders as well.
Very informative video. IN your opinion does this apply to factory cars as much as it does for newly built or race engines?
Carrying out a break-in procedure might not be necessary, however, with new cars, probably the best thing you can do it change the oil sooner than the factory recommended service interval.
How should I break in my new Camaro with the 6.2? Same as you say? Should I put a different oil in it right away to break it in properly?
We would always refer to whatever recommendations the engine builder provides with their engines, but most we work with recommend using a break-in oil for the first 200-400 miles which is what Driven recommends with their break-in oils.
4 stroke Briggs kart motors with sealed block: new motor ises a relatively hi tension ring pkg, AND CHROME FACED.. on an iron sleeve in alum block.
Question: I am gathering opinions on this spec motor break-in.....
*** Any Ideas?????
Use of a break-in oil in the appropriate viscosity would for sure be highly recommended. Like with any engine, you want to avoid excessive idling and you'll want to alternate between loading and unloading the engine (not sure if decel with engine braking is possible).
How long can plasma moly rings sit in the cylinder before break in? A few weeks, a few months? Thanks.
Depends on what you use for assembly. The biggest issue would be controlling corrosion and dry start. If the engine isn't going to be started up for a while, you might consider using a thicker assembly lubricant that is going to be less likely to run off.
Great video!! Very good detail! I have a ktm 530. I rehoned the cylindered because after installing a new piston I could see lines in the bore (about 3 hours of use). I had a leak down test of about 4%. I had the cylinder re nikasil. Now the leakdown is 20% and it will not start. I had to use the same rings because they are back-ordered (found out after). The ring gap is within spec. Is there anything that I can do to the rings to seal?
Assuming the cylinders were refinished correctly and that is not the issue, I would not expect the used ring to seal up in a freshly reconditioned cylinder. You'll probably have to pull the engine apart to change the rings out. If the OEM ring is not available, Total Seal can supply replacement rings for most applications.
Should I use a basic non detergent motor oil for break in? Or do I need to get an oil designed for break in? How will I know when I have the engine broken in? And lastly, should I get ZDDP additive for my oil changes thereafter?
A break in oil would be superior to a non-detergent motor oil. Although both are technically non-detergent, a break-in specific oil will have higher levels of ZDDP. After break-in, using the correct oil for the application would make adding a ZDDP or any other sort of additive useless. If you are using an oil that needs an additive, you are using the wrong oil.
With regards to when an engine is broken in, that will vary greatly depending on what kind of engine and how it is broken in. The cam and lifters should be broken in within 20-30 minutes of initial startup but piston rings may take hundreds if not thousands of miles to be fully broken in as measured by use of a compression and leakdown test.
I work for a fasteners and tool company. I work on nail and staple guns, air compressors and a few specialized tools. Some of the guns operate on propane gas and has an ignition system that is battery operated. They have steel rings. Almost all of them with two rings per cylinder, will have the ring gap spin around until they line up and lessen compression. Is there a fix for this? I’m restoring my grandfather’s 67 F100 and I want to make certain that I do my best. I have built race engines for karts and a couple of old race cars, before I started to work on the nail guns and didn’t know that it could be a thing.
@@ronniejohnson317 I can't comment on nail guns, but piston rings do rotate in normal operation. In a piston engine, typically the cross-hatch angle will affect the speed of ring rotation. Porsche actually pins the second piston ring in their modern watercooled engines to keep the ring from rotating. The use of gapless rings help overcome this issue.
I know an engine builder who plateau finishes his customers engines such as in the Chevy 350. Are there advantages or disadvantages doing this?
There are zero disadvantages to a plateau hone. Done correctly, this reduces time for break-in as well as break in wear.
hi, i just had my 180cc cylinder block rebored to fit 200cc piston and rings.After installation the bike still smokes alittle bit,kindly assist to understand the cause of that and how to solve the problem
Assuming the break-in was done correctly and the rings did seat properly, there are lots of things that could cause smoking, but specific to the cylinders I'd make sure the cylinders are straight and round and that they were properly honed with the correct surface finishes.
So after I install my new rings, I need to run it with conventional oil, and at around 60% throttle or more, correct? I'll be installing the rings on a 16hp cast iron Briggs.
If solely doing a re-ring, yes running a conventional oil is a must. Oil cannot have any friction modifiers such as moly as that will inhibit seating of the rings. Putting a load on the engine as soon as possible after up to operating temperature is the best way to seat the rings as discussed. You want to vary load and engine speed and avoid idling. It is also good to allow several thermal cycles during this process.
So, I just got my piston rings replaced in my Yamaha bike. I am just a little confused since I do not know too much about this. Since I have new piston rights now I have to break in the rings? How long does that usually take? Should I use some cheaper oil until they are broken in or the good mobil 1 oil that I use?
There is indeed a break in procedure for the rings. With nikasil bores seating the rings can take longer than with iron bores. It is especially important to make sure that you don't run the engine rich during break in. If you don't have access to a dyno for break-in, we typically tell customers that it will take at least 1000 miles for the rings to fully seat, but we tell everyone not to run a synthetic or even partial synthetic until you have 3-5k miles on the engine. For sure never use a full or partial synthetic to break in a new engine or even a conventional oil that has moly or similar friction modifiers as that will interfere with the break-in procedure.
So if i have idled my motor while troubleshooting leaks and codes etc. does that mean theres no point in me doing the break in process?
Excessive idling on a new engine is not recommended. Without putting a load on the engine, you won't get the rings to seat. A proper break-in procedure always needs to be followed.
Will this work on the Audi A4 2.0 Turbo CAEB Engine? TIA
Following a proper break in procedure is a must for any new or rebuilt engine. It's best to refer to your engine builder's recommendations as most typically have a prescribed procedure to follow to comply with warranty requirements, however the general principles are the same.
So if synthetic oil isn't good for break-in period, what oil do car manufacturers use in the engine if by owner's manual it requires synthetic?
Good question! Many OEMs will either pre-run their engines or ship them on a fill that is not the same as the synthetic recommended and used by the manufacturer for subsequent oil changes. High ZDDP isn't so much needed to protect camshafts and lifters in modern engines, but using a synthetic oil or even a conventional oil with high levels of friction modifiers such as moly can slow down or even prevent the rings from seating properly which can result in higher oil consumption than normal, blowby, and/or smoking. Once the engine has broken in though, using a synthetic oil is perfectly fine.
@@lnengineeringllc How interesting...Thanks! Afterwards for broken-in engines you can use oils with high dose of friction modifies without negative impact?
@@Charkatak Oils with friction modifiers won't cause any issue on engines that are already broken in. Besides increased horsepower and reduced fuel consumption, we tend to see a drop in oil temperature too with oils that have moly in them over non-friction modified oils.
@@lnengineeringllc Great! I just recently started looking into "Used oil analysis" and sent one virgin "Acura synthetic blend" oil for an analysis. The reason for this is because I recently switched from above mentioned synthetic blend to Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra full synthetic oil but I believe when cold engine doesn't sound as quiet as it did with blend oil. What to know if that oil has more moly in it or another friction modifier. Car info: 2010 Acura RL (J37A2 engine) with over 100k miles.
Does that mean nikasil cylinder doesnt need break in..coz its akready plateaued
Correct. Nikasil is much harder than steel or cast/ductile iron, so the rings are what wears during break-in. That is why surface finish is so critical with Nikasil bores as well as what lubricant is used as well as tune.
@@lnengineeringllc thank you so much for repliying...so a fresg nikasil cyl can be ripped out of the box when installed
I am replacing the pistons and rings on a Kawasaki 310 jet ski which has Nikasil cylinder lining and was wondering if I need/can/should rehone the cylinder or I should just go ahead gap and cut the rings correctly then break it in using the right oil?
Any info is much appreciated.
I am running your Gapless top rings on a BMW 3L straight 6 engine. The engine runs 104DegC(220F) from the factory and burnt the running in oil at around 300 miles.
I have noticed that on pulling the plugs that 5 out of 6 cylinders have light oil consumption indicators and smokes a little after idling at the lights for a while.
I used a bore-scope and the bores don't look to be glazed. Can I just give it another run with new break-in oil?
LN Engineering isn't the manufacturer of TS rings; we'd advise you speak to Total Seal directly for their recommendation as we do not have any experience with BWM engines as our area of expertise is with Porsche engines. Normally when we see something like this I question if the bores were prepped properly or if the engine was running overly rich during initial run-in, but TS may have some better recommendations for you to follow.
@@lnengineeringllc It was rich initially. Fired up at 0.7 Lambda and ran without hesitation due to the high power coils.
What is the meaning of RINGS SEATING ?
When you have a new (or freshly rebuilt engine), the rings and cylinders must wear into each other before they will seal up. This is referred to "seating" the rings. If the rings don't seat properly, engines can smoke, burn oil, and have low compression and high leakdown numbers.
@@lnengineeringllc will that happen with Sytech or is ZDDP actually needed above 800 ppm ? and how much ? thks
@@mba2ceo Typically a non-detergent, break-in, or equivalent conventional non-friction modified oil is used for break-in of a new engine. Using a semi-syn, full syn, or any oil containing friction modifiers will negatively affect break-in and will prevent piston rings from seating during break-in.