Did The Romans Discover America? Debunking Video
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
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A few videos, articles and books have been bringing forth this idea that the ancient Romans were the first Europeans to reach the American Continent, possibly during the times of Julius Caesar. What are these statements based on? What evidence do we have that would suggest such an incredible event? Did the ancient Roman writers mention America? Is there archaeological or DNA evidence that supports these thesis? Let's find out!
Link to the very good video made by my friend Gioal Canestrelli on this very topic, English subs available!
• I Romani conoscevano l...
Links for further research on the topic
www.public.asu.edu/~mesmith9/...
www.academia.edu/7633616/R_Ba...
novoscriptorium.com/2019/07/2...
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At first I thought I heard 'macarena'! :-D
Congrats on the marriage.
Have to say, live streaming it seems like a questionable idea.
Keep some privacy, I say. Just my opinion.
congrats on the marriage! i feel this video might be mislabeled. i think there is a difference between "discovering" and "knowing about." your video feels more like "did the romans know about the americas." as for did they discover them? that's more difficult, there are scientifically verified roman findings that were not brought later or faked which suggest they did "discover" or at least make it to the americas. look at the roman shipwreck off the coast of brazil, the roman statues and carvings of central and south america, coin caches found in places that shouldn't exist. those sorts of things. i mean yeah, i understand your point about sensationalism leading to a lot of incorrect stuff on the internet...but we can't allow skepticism to deny the real unexplained and potential proof also.
Bro i do not think you should stream your personal life to thousands of people
There were no such thing as the Romans, bro 😉
4:37 Its ridiculous that someone would claim this is a pineapple. It amazes me how ignorant people can be. That is obviously a WWII era hand grenade, brought to Rome by a time traveller.
No, that hand grenade was made by the romans themselves because the romans were that awesome.
@@MiguelDS5547 That's ludicrous. The Romans built the time machine.
This is why the aztecs had a white skinned bearded god that brought great knowledge the “god” was probably a roman who came on grand ship in grand attire unlike anything the aztecs ancestors had seen before and when the Spaniards arrived this was the god the white bearded god their ancestors talked about.
Obviously the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more no less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naught in my sight, shall snuff it.”
Right. One... two... five!
Romans were quite notorious in documenting stuff that they did, so I'm quite confident (as an absolute layman in history) that they would have mentioned something as: going across the ocean, meeting the indigenous people there, trading with them and then going back. Salutti della Lituania.
Sure, however there’s nothing preventing from said documents from getting lost, decaying or even accidentally (perhaps even intentionally) being destroyed.
Its been so many centuries ago that it could happen, information gets lost all the time so even if they wrote about it, there’s no guarantee said documents would survive into the current era.
Now i don’t actually believe the Romans ever made it to the Americas, however just wanted to mention that even if they loved keeping meticulous records of all they did, it doesn’t necessarily means that the lack of records of this immediately means it couldn’t had happened.
Saluti a te!
Coincidentally, the Romans were likely aware of the existence of Baltic people because Tacitus talks about the "Amber Road" where amber from Gdansk, Sambia and Curonia would make it all the way into the Empire.
@@Kanadabalsam Fair point. We've probably already lost a few tons of documents thanks to every ancient library getting burned.
The libraries of Alexandria were burnt 🔥 down where stuff like that was probably stored.
I'm sure the sailors of the time probably thought let's keep going West!!!
I believe they reached the Americas, but due to greed it was kept hush hush. I feel they started the "flat earth" conspiracy to sway others from attempting to reach the bounties of the new world. Two clues that bother me most are the ancient Great Lakes copper mines, and the Roman cargo ship found off of the coast of Brazil, also there is a very roman like aquaduct and some man made rivers running through the Amazon jungle. As well as native accounts of bearded white men with red and blond hair. So much history has been lost to time and the elements :/
About the pineapple thing: We know a lot of plants changed dramatically due being cultivated by humans and today look nothing like their ancestors from 2000 years ago. The Romans knew cabbage and loved the stuff. But the (I believe) most commonly eaten form of cabbage today - white cabbage - would look like a weird and alien thing to a an ancient roman, because round-headed variants of cabbage didn't exist in Roman times.
The same goes with other old world veggies. As far as I know Roman carrots were white. The orange ones we have today would be weird and exotic from the perspective of an ancient Roman, just as white carrots are not exactly unheard of but uncommon to us.
This makes me wonder: What did pineapples look like 2,000 years ago? and suppose the Roman had gotten their hands on them and depicted them, would those things even look like pineapples to us?
7:46 Also given the difficulty of cultivating pineapples they were often seen as a sign of incredible wealth. In the UK you can still find archways, doorways, fences etc from old rich houses where pineapples are used as decoration.
They're not that difficult to cultivate in a tropical or subtropical climate, or even the warmer parts of the reportage zone. It's just that Britain gets too cold for too much of the year. And sugar was a higher priority crop in their tropical colonies.
The Dunmore Pineapple not far from me in Scotland is an entire building shaped like pineapple for this reason. It was built in 1761 by John Murray, the 4th Earl of Dunmore, for his wife.
@@AnyoneCanSee I was not aware of this building.
Whether an Ancient Greek, Carthaginian or Roman ship reached the Americas was a really isolated event that wasn't enough to be recorded. Let's also consider how writers dealt with unknown claims. An example is Strabo who mocked Pytheas' observations in the north. Pytheas was eventually given justice.
Technically if the Romans sent a fleet of ships due west under non storming weather, it's plausible they could've reached South America and made it back. They had decent vessels for their time and we hear about guys with smaller sail boats sailing all across the world.
@@dmorgan0628 Yeah, but if it did happen, it would definitely have been a fluke and not readily repeated due to how resource-intensive it was to make that journey for relatively small payoffs for the time.
Greek and Roman, yes. Carthaginians, no. They ruthlessly excluded Greeks and Romans from the western Mediterranean, and beyond, and maintained the knowledge of those lands as state secrets protected by misinformaton about sailing off the edge of the world and sea monsters.
Bronze requires tin (from Britain) and copper (which there is evidence they obtained from the Great Lakes region of North America). Monopolizing the means to make bronze was an issue of national security.
It is not impossible. But we got no proof.
If there was proof, it wouldn't be just a couple of alleged pineapples in art.
So, until proven otherwise, we do not have evidence to say it is real.
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo what constitutes sufficient proof, though?
1st century Roman lamps have been found in the early 17th century context of the archaeological excavations at Jamestown, Virginia. Of course the lamps were not left by Romans but brought by those English gentlemen serving in Virginia... Someone, even then brought their antiques to the New World.
They probably would’ve been produced around the renaissance, since there was a emphasis on things like Roman/Greek architecture
@@thechroniclegamer4285 yeah I don't think people would have been moving 1500+ year old antiques like that for life in a colony.
@@jonnylawless6797 you never know
Great video! One note, which I admit is simply anecdotal: I wouldn’t say it’s “incorrect” to say American Indian instead of Native American, as I’ve heard many such people say they prefer the first term.
If they prefer it they can use it. But it’s still a misnomer since they are not from India though
"Native American" is pretty much the common usage today.
Hey Po-Tay-Toe/Po-Tah-Toe... To each their own. Being an American, ive used Native American, American Indian, Indian, its all the same, especially if you don't mean it in a disrespectful way... Same concept of all these white liberals upset about certain sports team names. Most "Native Americans" dont really care... Washington Redskins, Atlanta Braves, Cleveland Indians, Chiefs, none of these names are offensive, unless your a whiney ass cry baby liberal. That's like saying you can't call the New England Patriots the Patriots because it could be hurtful to people that are unpatriotic or to people that sided with the British during the American Revolutionary War... Or calling the Pittsburgh Pirates or the Buccaneers hurtful to pirates, buccaneers, swashbucklers and privateers, or amy sailor in general! No one cares.... Except the AssHats!
Have you ever heard of "Manuscript 512" ? It was a letter wrote by bandeirantes to the king of Portugal, and it mentions a lost city in the state of Bahia(Brazil) that had an architecture similar to the Roman architecture, such city have never been found, but still, it is an interesting story.
Hail from Brazil, Metatron !!
Finally! Someone said something about this. I appreciate the Metatron’s dedication to science. Some people on UA-cam let their passion for the Romans get the better of them and they start believing sensationalist theories.
You dingus! The Romans discovered space travel! It's all a conspiracy!!! The Slovanians are feeding you a bunch of lies!
Think about it! Romans! ROW-MENS
Space ship. Ship!
ROW, MEN, ROWING A SPACE SHIP!
OPEN YOUR EYES!!
I take this video as evidence of pineapple pizza existing in Roman times.
Well said. This is what differentiates a good historian from a charlatan.
This topic should not even be addressed.
@@tcschenks I agree, but unfortunately, perhaps due to clickbait, or perhaps something else, people who put out videos about fringe theories are getting views. Consequently they infect a lot of people with these silly ideas that will eventually come back to you. So if you don’t address and debunk these ideas, they can be a problem in the future.
People a thousand years from now:
A Roman Scutum was found on Mars! The Roman Empire colonized Mars three thousand years before Elon Musk!
No, it was Mars (the god) taking a brave legionaire to his home on Mars (the planet) after an honorable death. Besides, everyone know that Mars was conquered by the fascists!
@@arx3516 I'm pretty sure nazis (not fascists) never made it beyond Moon.
"Ancient Aliens" a thousand years from now:
Narrator: "Can it be? Is it possible? Is this really a Roman scutum?"
Descendant of Giorgio Tsoukalos: "Obviously, it's not a Roman scutum. It's a Martian scutum! it proves that ancient Martians colonized Earth! Ancient Martians created Rome! It's why ancient Romans worshipped Mars!"
@@arx3516 Actually a cool idea for a Historical Fiction Book ngl
@@arx3516 I thought it was the communists who painted the planet red. And the reason Elon Musk wants to go there is because he wants to paint a a large Tesla logo onto the planet so the world can pretend the soviet feat never happened...
There actually have been a few roam coins found in the Americas (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, and Maine), but they were all singular finds that have no context. I suspect that they were lost from coin collections as people traveled west in the 1800's. Fun fact. I am a member of a first nations tribe, and we actually have legends of contact with what I have always suspected were the vikings.
Uh nice what are those legends for example?
@@whitegold2960 well, my tribe had a legend about what they called the Okla Nahulo, or white men of the water. They were bearded white men that traveled the rivers in large canoes and, and were said to be dangerous, they would take women and steal food. Similarly, the cherokee has legends of the stone coats, which again were beared white men that traveled by boat, and it was said that they had "shirts so hard that stone arrowhead shattered on them", and were made of tiny shiney rocks stuck to the shirts, so probably armor of some sort like mail. They also describe them clearly using swords. My own take is that Okla Nahulo, the stone coats, and a handfull of similar stories among the eastern tribes of north america likely represent the same group of people. The descriptions are all really close. The stories really do sound like Europeans, but what group and when are the question. The stories do likely predate the Spaniards, as early explorers in the 1500's that spoke with the Iroqioan speaking tribes in the Northeastern part of the continent recorded them.
@@stuartwhitehead3167 yes that sounds quite reasonable I will look on that further really fascinating thanks for that :)
@@stuartwhitehead3167 that would be a fascinating legend if it was based on events that happened long ago. The vikings of Iceland I believe had legends of traveling to another branch of yggdrasil where they claimed to have come into contact with dark or black elfs called skraeling that eventually pushed them back to the sea, not sure if that account is a drunken fireside tale or based on something that occured either but interesting none the less.
You did have me there for a minute lol, but the story of skraelings I read somewhere years ago.
@@stuartwhitehead3167Wow that's actually really interesting. I know the Vikings landed on Vinland (Newfoundland, Canada), but to think they might have gone that far across America would be really cool.
Finally someone spreading more truth about this! Really if anything the world atm is full of idiots trying to re-write history for ideological reasons. Thanks metatron, great video as always.
ok but at least we know the roman empire fell after upgrading their laptops to windows vista
Regarding that "pinapple" mosaic, I don't think that the leaves behind it are part of the fruit. As they are not aligned with the centre axis of the fruit.
That's what I thought as well. I mean, art back then wasn't too particular about some things, but that just looks sloppy if the leaves are attached to the fruit.
@@AnotherDuck back than all of the art painted entirely with many colored, of we could recreate the color it could also be a hint
@@ravivik3378 they aren’t referring to the sculpture, they’re referring to the dinner plate one
Even without the knowledge that Columbus thought he was in India, the quote about Alexander, the Romans and Greeks wanting to conquer the lands he was in could easily be explained by the fact that Alexander sought to conquer the whole world and the Romans were an expansionist Imperial power that were only checked by the practicalities of expanding their borders, so saying that Columbus is conquering what they sought to conquer just means he’s flexing and saying ‘they failed to conquer the world despite their designs/ambitions and now I’m conquering where they couldn’t’. None of that inheritently means Alexander et.al. knew of the Americas.
As to the ‘would they bother to document something as silly as a pineapple’ point - even without the in depth culinary records you cite, my reaction is surely the oddity of it would be all the more reason we’d expect to find references to it? The fact that it’s unusual and a scarce commodity means that we’d probably expect it to be more likely to be recorded than something more humdrum.
Thats not knolledge thats a myth
acording to his own journals he thought he was in a undeacovered island off the coast of japan at first his goal was india he didnt think he git to india
Acording to the map he was using the most acurate map at the time the land he found himself on shouldnt wxist and he shouldd be in the ocian off the coast of japan if the map was currect this led to the conclusion that it was a uncharted island in the japanese group of islands
by his second and third voyages he knew it wasbt any part of the known world
the idia that he thought he was in india is a myth based on deliberate propaganda of the time
Plato knew there was a land on the other side of the Atlantic beyond the alleged site of Atlantis, presumably the Americas. He wasn't the only to speak of this, so the ancient world was at least DIMLY aware of it.
Literary evidence of the thin possibility aside, my aunt found a Roman coin in a riverbed in Georgia ;) Yes I'm aware that means nothing, but it's cool. Other cool thing, in classic Marvel canon there are a people called the Nova Romans who are the descendants of an ancient Roman colony of actual Romans in South America that live on the Roraima plateau.
People went nuts over potatoes when it was discovered. If the romans had found pineapples, they would’ve recorded it. They recorded everything.
i don't buy the "india" narrative. people at the time knew how large the world was, to the point that columbus had a difficult time getting support for his idea because it was easy for educated people to disprove his claims. he was either really bad at math and geography (which doesn't seem likely since he was a pro navigator, or at least we are assuming he is), or he knew he was going to "america" but thought that "india" was a stronger selling point since it is known that one could acquire much wealth from trading there. also, it may not have been the romans, but there is A LOT of evidence that suggests people were knowledgeable about the "new world" before 1492. thus i can see columbus wanting to explore a mysterious yet real land, but needing an economic excuse in order to get the funding/investment for it. much like the conquistadores of later times continuously claiming that there was gold and silver in such and such locations, even though in many of these instances it was well know by them and the locals that no such treasures existed.
One other thing to note is that while Columbus did refer to where he landed as India/the indies, he did realize that he was actually on a new previously undiscovered landmass when he reached the mouth of the Orinoco River. To paraphrase his own words he thought he was "somewhere southeast of the coast of Asia." Which technically speaking is correct. He just hadn't realized this undiscovered landmass was actually an entire continent
Your videos on the Romans are always spot on, Rafael! I appreciate all of the off-topic info hidden under the main topic, really helps to keep up with our history knowledge!
Greetings from a polish noble one!
The Romans were smart people, but they also managed to lose 100,000 troops to a Mediterranean storm in 255 B.C.. When you think about how much calmer the Mediterranean is than the North Atlantic, I find it quite difficult to believe that a Roman ship could have gotten anywhere America without being smashed to pieces by the wrath of Neptune.
been saying the same for a while now :)
the romans are the tank
I belive most argument says that they went like portugise later with South Atlantic Current to Brazil and not like
Warships and commerce ships were different beasts. Warships were made for battle and were awful at sailing. Commerce ships regularly reached India and even Indocina in Roman times.
Also, Bjorn Ironside lost 2/3 of his fleet due to Mediterranean's storms, and it's not like the Vikings didn't know how to navigate the Atlantic.
@@neutronalchemist3241 again the Atlantic and Mediterranean were entirely different so an Atlantic sailor and Mediterranean sailor would be out of their element and Mediterranean storms are still storms. and the traders would've travelled over both land and sea because as far as I know the romans never got anywhere near the cape of good hope so any trade with India or Indochina would've been over mainly inland routes as a completely sea bound route from India to Italy was impossible
I'd like to add that even if a ship can technically reach America, the crew still needs to be skilled enough to make the voyage in good enough time to make it viable. This was actually a problem encountered around the end of the 19th century, where a wooden sailing ship was sent from America to China as something of a celebration, and it ended up taking something like a month over the average time; and that's with practically perfect knowledge of the route.
As the Romans found the idea of even going as far as Britain daunting, anyone who even tried to go further would first have to overcome a very angry crew...
People had made the voyage to britain from the levant
@@GAMER123GAMING coast sailing is quite different from sailing across an ocean. On the open ocean you need tools to tell you where you are, advanced knowledge of stars so you can know your direction even at night and a ship that can take the massive amount of supplies you will need. There’s nowhere to resupply, no drinkable water you can just fill up.
@@GAMER123GAMING In the Bronze age too
@@henrikaugustsson4041 On the coast you can pull up to the nearest fishing village and ask for directions haha That is so funny to me for some reason. "Hello peasant! Can you tell me where I am?!"
@@henrikaugustsson4041 Coastal sailing around Britain is extremely dangerous with strong tides and big waves. If you look at pictures of the calm/warm seas around the Bahamas I would say you need a lot more sailing skill to sail around the British coast but I agree the issue of water and food would be a huge challenge for this journey although with a few skilled fishermen on board it's definitely possible.
So, we know that the Vikings reached the Americas after starting from Greenland and only after one of their ships had gotten so far off course that the crew could see land. And we also know that the Azores and Madeira were discovered in the 15th century, while the Canaries had been discovered by Phoenicians. This makes me wonder if the Romans even had any interest in discovering unknown lands.
They conducted expeditions in Sub-Saharan Africa, for example.
Congratulations man. You're honest and thorough...that's a whole lot more than I can say for most of the world. I wish u happiness and I hope u still keep pumping out videos. I love your content-youre def in my top ten on YT
I know you are proud of your roman heritage, as am I, even if its only 10% of my DNA. But I am even more proud of you being impartial when it comes to history. Good work.
Found out recently that I have a small percentage too, though mine is under 2%, and likely half that or less. It was a fascinating, evolving culture that requires sensible people such as our host to look at things with respect, proper scepticism and his obvious enthusiasm. Definitely this is an area about which my knowledge is ethusiastically unprofessional, a hobby at best, and I credit, as you do, the impartiality which adds seriousness to his enthusiasm.
Thank you for this one. I have heard rumours that there were some Native American tribes that had collected some Roman items and kept them hidden which means that it is possible that a Roman ship might have made it across and crashed on the shores of North America. However, I'm sure everyone would have been long dead and definitely NO WAY there could have been a trade route. But as you correctly surmised we would need exceptional evidence to prove anyone made it here before the Vikings. BTW, check L'anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland regarding the Vikings coming here.
I have always imagined the possibility of a half sunk or an abandoned ship or even a regular ship that got pushed off course but everyone died from lack of food. Could have drifted across the ocean and landed anywhere. But the found artifacts might have been saved and later rediscovered causing mass speculation.
Also many communities had trade, so it is very possible the idea of a pineapple traded farther than the fruit itself. They have found Asian DNA in the west coast of south America population.
Or there is the possibility of global change in climate and plant life. The Romans did harvest some plants to extinction. So it might have been native is a small area but never cultivated properly and died out.
Fun fact, in Ireland it’s taught St. Brendan found America 500 years before the vikings. And it’s been proven possible, in the 70’s a man sailed in a currach from Ireland to the east coast.
Imagine a native warlord rocking a roman sword lol
@@swoops7687 the Irish would rule the world if they did not make such good whiskey.
@@swoops7687 But what would have been St. Brendan's motivation? We know the Vikings were colonizing Greenland so finding Newfoundland makes sense. We know Columbus was trying to create a new trade route to Asia to bypass the Muslims so did the Irish get word from God that potatoes exist in the Americas or what?
Eyyyy! Caught this on your wedding day, congrats! Been following you for years. I will be joining the SCA (Society For Creative Anachronism) in mid April when I move to Yellowstone Park in Montana. Which, acknowledge in the name they are anachronistic but the chapter there does have some HEMA practitioners I wanna learn from.
One aspect that keeps bothering me about this alleged pineapple is, that it’s always the Romans that must have actively brought it home. But considering the Westerlies and the Gulf stream both going eastwards, wouldn’t it be more likely for seafarers or abandoned ships from America to accidentally end up in Europe? Though we’ll never know for certain, what this pineapple-like object truly is, the biggest fallacy of this whole discussion remains in my opinion, that one would require an active trading route between the continents instead of just one single American ship gone astray and a capable roman farmer.
The North Atlantic Gyre can circulate objects to either side, and from the most likely Roman starting point at the Pillars of Hercules, it would sweep them down and west towards the Caribbean.
Conversely, despite their advancement in Human Sacrifice-related technologies, the cultures of central and south America were not advanced mariners, and their small watercraft are unlikely to have survived an unintended voyage in recognizable condition.
@@FlyingNinjaish Still, reaching America by accident would require a second trip to bring stuff home to Rome, while an American vessel gone astray would only need to survive that one voyage. Besides that, I don’t think we really know enough about ancient American people and their vessels to properly assess their seafaring capabilities. After all, it’s still disputed when, from where and by whom America was first populated. One also mustn’t forget the Caribbean islands, which must have been reached by boat at one point.
@@billywig8661 The islands of the Caribbean are close enough to both the mainland and each other to be settled by dugout canoe.
While the currents favored the return trip, American sea-faring was too primitive to make the Atlantic crossing. Again, the complete lack of knowledge of another continent, meant that even if they had boats able to make the trips, they had no reason to send such voyages because, even if they could make the trip, they would have no way of knowing they could.
It is unlikely that people that didn't develop seafaring ships made it accros the sea
Yes, Julius Caesar took a detour while in Britain. He sailed over the Atlantic and slapped a few natives up in New York. He came back and told his fellow Romans "Hey we're not the only red guys around".
Lol
Red guys lol.
POV: Unexpected racism turns to true brotherhood
I noticed a lot of people trying to support the argument of ships found in the islands near the America's as sign of making it there. The issue is these ships are likely drifting hulks. Abandoned ships that the ocean just kept dragging along with the currents till it reached America. You can literally be on a ship in the Atlantic, turn the engine off and just sit there and wait till it brings you to Europe. It will take an extremely long time but it will get there eventually if not just near it. Since these vessels are made of wood they would eventually fall apart and sink in the open ocean along the way. So it wouldn't be shocking to find several vessels in the Atlantic it's just it's really hard to find all of them so deep in that endless abyss if mysteries
I agree and it’s a fact that has been detailed. I find fascinating that there are undiscovered land masses due to extreme weather
Agree. Different to medieval times, greek and roman ships were hard to sink unless severley damaged, which tends to happen if there are coastlines and riffs everywhere in the mediterranean. But if a ship sailing up to Britain get´s drifted out into the Atlantic ocean, then there is nothing for miles that would make it sink, so it could take it´s sweet time to reach some point in the Americas.
Another argument against the trans-atlantic trade: the Romans didn´t even bother to establish a presence on Ireland, why should they have spend ressources for such a traderoute?
@@anonymussicarius8899 The Romans didn't conquer Ireland because it had no infrastructure or towns, unlike Gaul, and would have been a nightmare to maintain and protect. Now take Ireland, make it the size of a continent, and place it across an entire ocean. Yeah, there's no way.
The only possible scenario that I can think of is Roman sailors being caught in a storm, and drifting away from Europe, to the Americas. I believe that something like this happened to two Mexican fishermen, who stayed out for too long, knowing that a storm was coming. They didn't make it to shore in time, and ended up stranded in the Pacific. One died, and the other made it to polynesia.
I found it: ua-cam.com/video/vKMNZyJRhBg/v-deo.html
Ok i have watched probably a dozen of your videos now, all of which have been insightful informative and enjoyable. Time to hit that subscribe button 😎👍
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! So happy for you I went "WOO!" when I read the title in the photo collage!
I once read an article about 5 men who were fishing off the Canary Islands (I think in 2012) when their boat was caught in a severe storm. Several weeks later, the boat beached in Brazil with 2 of the men still alive. I think it's plausible that a Roman ship could have landed in North or South America every couple of centuries but I think it's unlikely enough of the Romans would have been alive to make any recognizable cultural impact. However, I think it's exceedingly unlikely the Romans actually carried on a transatlantic trade with the Americas.
That's what I've always thought of, someone had to have drifted all the way to the Americas or from the Americas to the old world. These pre Columbian contacts ideas are very rarely talked about...
It's true. Some times we have Storms here on the Canaries, and some are Hurricanes which failed to hit the Caribbian, made a sharp right turn and hit Madeira and Marocco instead. Such a one in a decade storm would create a wind blowing from NE later turning to E and driving a boat out into the Atlantic, for about 500- 700 km. There said boat might get hit by the northern parameter of a tropical Storm to drive it further West for another 500- 700 km. But that's still just 1/4 the way to the Bahamas. (6000 km)
@@andreasarnoalthofsobottka2928 That's why I think it couldn't have been a very common event but since it happened at least once it may have happened a few times in the past as well.
@@itsapittie It didn't happen and even if they made it there, they never made it back.
keep in mind that modern ships are much more durable and safe than those created millennia ago so it is possible like another commenter said that hulks or roman ships could make their way to the new world but most likely in a similar circumstance the crew would've been long dead.
The hilarious theory I saw on UA-cam was that the indigenous peoples of Brazil were from Africa. The video referenced gourds found both in South America and Africa and also a few linguistic coincidences. What it didn't mention was that genetic evidence refutes the idea entirely.
I once saw a theory that there was a land mass in the south pacific durring the ice age and that people from that land mass migrated to South America and to India. and after the ice age when ice started to melt and the land mass started flooding the people who remained became the pacific islanders as the mountains of the land mass are all that's left, as islands.
So according to that theory, Everyone from southern europe, the middle east, india, and south America descended from pacific islanders.
Only people in the united States claim that. Not based on genetics or facts, based on a couple individuals with UA-cam channels. Some even claim that the natives of America are actually foreigners brought here to displace them
If you go back far enough...yes, the indigenous Brazilians come from Africa. But that is several tens of thousands years ago.
@@marlan5470 about five hundred according to DNA evidence
@@marlan5470 oh I see what you're saying. Yeah all evidence points to migration from East Africa, with some pickups of Neanderthal DNA in the northern part of that hemisphere and another pickup in east Asia with they're naming Denisovan. Interesting, but some Pacific side South Americans have some Austro-Polynesian dna
Ave Raphaelus ! 😁
Wish the best for you and Kenzy !
People are always dreaming around and forget to look for the essensial.
Best wishes for you both. 👍
Loved your video, amazing work as always!! Just wanted to point out some points you made, because languages are amazing and show us the history.
1. In Greek, we still call a cherry "κεράσι", pronounced pretty much like in Latin you mentioned.
2. In Greek we call the native Americans "Ινδιάνοι", Indians. But here is the deal. People from India we call "Ινδοί". So we still call the native Americans like Columbus did, but in the same time we can distinguishe one from the other.
We could always take the "History Channel" approach. When in doubt, it's *Aliens* of course. Could be an alien "egg" of some sort. 🤔🤣
Thanks for your common sense approach to history. It's more important than ever to maintain a proper prospective of history.
Did people from beyond the stars give primitive man laptops?
Ancient Astronaut Theorists say 'Yes'
@@camil3545 🤔😎
Ancient site/artifact: *exists*
Giorgio Tsoukalos: "Aliens!"
@@marcello7781🤣🤣
This is similar to the idea from British naval officer/writer Gavin Menzies that the medieval Chinese sailed to the coast of North America in the 1400s. The Ming Treasure Fleet did sail to far away places such as Africa and Southeast Asia, but there is no real evidence they also sailed to North America.
Yep, I got suckered into that one a while. Handily gives the PRC a claim to all sorts of lands, including Antartica, & claims China inspired the European renaiscence. Masters of disinformation.
@@2bingtim I don't know about the PRC government (maybe they liked the claim), but actual Chinese historians in China were the among the first and most vocal ones to say Gavin Menzies' ideas were nonsense or unproven.
I've heard it mostly followed the coastlines down south and those places in the 15th century were all pretty well known anyways, as the Chinese traded with central Asian countries and even the middle east quite commonly by land. The fleet was mostly about trading and had little if nothing about exploration.
Best of wishes on your new journey! May it be long and fruitful!
Big congratulations on the wedding. So happy for you both! :D Long time follower of you on UA-cam (at least one short haircut and two long haircuts ago).
Congratulations on your marriage! :)
Yes, it's seriously doubtful the Romans would not have copiously documented such an amazing feat or described people so radically different from any they had encountered up to that point.
Imagine the Mayans came to Italy and brought tomato sauce and pickled peppers as well as pineapples (no seeds of any of them) first they made pizza (all Romans went YEAH!!!) And then they put pineapple on it. That stopped them from wanting to go there ever.
Anyhow, Americans discovering Europe and not liking what they saw and therefore not returning makes a whole lot more sense then the other way around.
@@zeideerskine3462 Who put a rod up your back?
@@zeideerskine3462 Funny, then, the latter is the theory with actual evidence backing it up.
Vikings came from Europe, and after brutal conflict with the 'Skraelings' decided the place wasn't worth the effort.
I worked with one of the researchers who examined the medicinal tablets from that shipwreck. Sadly, the whole study still hasn't been published yet.
What a great video!! Congradulations on your wedding! Many happy days for you and your bride!!
Wow, really huge congratulations to your wedding, wish you all the best. Stort stort grattis, hoppas ni lever lyckliga i alla era dagar. :)
Congratulations! May the gods bless this ceremony….
Best wishes for your Wedding! During the 9th century a canoe* was found at the coast of the Frankish realm. If I remember right, it was found in Brittany and is reported within the Annales Bertiniani. There is a description of a tropical fruit, which was found inside it and sounds pretty much like a pineapple. Well, if a canoe can drift along the Gulf Stream this far, perhaps an American discovered Europe, before Europeans discovered America? This, of course, would be an extremely great accident and the description is written very vaguely, but there is a tiny little chance, that it happend... If you can not find it, I will search my files for it.
Why is there no author, who made a book of this one? In this case very little proof means, that no one is able to disprove it. Only the chances stand against it, but it's possible at the end.
*Of course this word is an interpretation.
Given the Gulf stream it would be more probable a native American boat got to Europe, though the crew surviving would be another thing.
Fun & interesting video. I'm almost surprised that no one brought up Thor Heyerdahl :)
Congratulations to you & your beloved! Good health & joyous life to you both.
Congrats on the engagement!!
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! I'm really happy for you guys. I don't usually comment on UA-cam videos, but I've been watching you for many years and I'd say you're probably my favorite UA-camr. Over the years, the impression that I have gotten is that you're a great guy -- and you guys are obviously a great match. I couldn't be happier for y'all. Congratulations, Dr. Urbani! Here's to your happily ever after. 🍻
Congratulations, Rafaelo!
The news at the beginning of the video was more a exciting start than I expected.
Big Congrats! I am glad to be apart of your wedding virtually. I have been a big fan of your channel for a few years.
Congrats, Raff! Happy wife, happy life.
I don't really understand this obsession with random ancient civilization discovering the Americas. I already find it incredibly interesting the Vikings came to Canada centuries before the Spanish got to the Caribbean. I don't know why people desperately want so badly for the Imperial Chinese, Romans, friggen Phoneticians getting to America first.
Well, it could be because of the alleged anti-whiteness of todays world trying to take away credit. Never mind the Romans would be considered white by todays standards. What was it, 14 emps had sub-flavin hair? Of course, they did not look norse but they were european through and through. Either way, I could care less. The Americas were never discovered by the europeans. They had been settled hundreds of thousands of years before.
I find it real intreating about the Vikings as well. I was reading a while back that the templars apparently made it to the new world cause there is Templar art which has pictures of maize on them and maize comes from the Americas.
Because questioning, wondering and theorize are human things, a fat tiger wouldn't know.
@@gunproofgrandad Everyones favorite ancestors or culture has discovered america. Each before the other. Its comical at this point.
Don't forget Iberian fishermen.
Mario: “We just asked you to sail the trireme to Sicily”
Luigi: “Sorry, I got lost and kept on going”
Love your debunking videos!
Also your armour looking gooooooood!
A Roman half coin and barter token have been found in Nova Scotia. One dated to the 3rd century, the other 5th if I'm not mistaken.
Of course this is more recent than the video and was most likely deposited much later.
They have found structures dating back to the 1200's on Oak Island, seemingly of Portuguese origins.
Would love to hear your take on the artifacts discovered this last year.
Congratulations on getting married, I've loved your videos for years and you really helped me get into history, historical arms and armor, etc. along with others.
Hello, friend. I wish to you two all the best! May you have a happy life, with health and happiness and everything you want.
As for your subject of discussion, there are a lot of para-historical theories about ancient people, like the Greeks and the Romans, going in legendary explorations, but with very few evidence, which is also debatable. One such example is the theory that states the the Ainu, the natives of northern Japan, have a direct connection with the Pelasgians, the people that inhabited the Greek archipelago. The evidence to this state actually does not exist- me, a Greek, I have seen Ainu some times and I can tell you that they are very different than Greeks. Nor do exist any anthropological proofs that these two peoples have anything in common. There are also other such theories too, most of which come from ultra-nationalist parties, that are also dubious. We need to have our distance fro such theories. Have a nice time.
Your example of the ainu and Pelasgians was created by a 4chan troll, lol. We know where the ainu came from, Siberia.
Congratulations on the engagement! Also great content as always
I haven't watched your new video until today and now I realised that your wedding is tomarrow, congratulations! Tanta felicità!
Someone should write a novel about it though. A alt history novel with a Romano-Aztec culture would be dope (I know that they weren't contemporaries, but you get it).
the Romans obviously would have gotten their pineapples from Atlantis, not the Americas
My brother congratulations!! You two are a wonderful and gorgeous couple, and you deserve all the best! 'A'bel el Miye!! (Cento Anni) in Lebanese
Thanks mate (-atron) for clearing up the sunflower seed conundrum for me. A few month back I was confronted with this stuff via a video by polýMATHY and discarded most of the "evidence", as you did. Only the archaeological findings from the shipwreck seemed to have some actual merit for the theory. Hence my limited knowledge of the italian language, my research of the topic was stopped short. My humble thanks for twining up this open thread. ;) Oh, and all the best for your wedding, BTW.
I do like that you present the content with professional information in helping viewers gain a better undertanding about topics like this. I like your videos pointing out the facts instead of ficition.
¡Enhorabuena, Metatron. Qué Haya mucha felicidad en vuestro matrimonio!
They've reached several Atlantic islands which were bases for the Portuguese to reach America. The chances of some vessels reaching America is really not that small
Have you even watched the video?
Would be an interesting alternate history. Hadrian sends an expedition to conquer Cuba, they probably end up warring with the Maya city-states and Teotihuacan later.
Romans were never known for their seafaring their boats were designed for the relatively calm Mediterranean the Romans had a lot of difficulty navigating just the English channel or North Sea and lost most of their fleet in a storm when supporting campaigns beyond the Rhine. The idea that they would have been able to cross the entire Atlantic is very unlikely
@@thesnake2620 more than unlikely, nearly impossible.
@@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96 actually not. I just commented and closed, planning to watch later
Interesting point about the origin of the Latin word for cherries. See also the Greek name of the fruits (κεράσια), as well as the Romanian one (cireşe). Also, congratulations on your upcoming wedding!
It's kind of funny when you think about it. The mere fact that you place your aquatic or archeological tools in a specific location between uses or before using it, might cause the scientists who study findings to reach very incorrect conclusions.
Very interesting research and a great and fascinating peek into history. Great job as always. I would love to see you unpack similar claims that Templars or Freemasons traveled to America before Columbus or before the Norse.
I love your puppies. Are they going to be your best man (dog?) and flower pup at your wedding? I can't wait to see.
My favorite youtube channel of all even tho i follow more than 20 and many on history and religious subjects
Thanks for the video's! Up late finishing some work, makes for great listening 👍
Congrats sir.....Happy to see you getting married!!! :)
And...the laptop part....made me chuckle....it's totally look like one....
What I learnt from the history of Columbus, is that him not knowing he reached the Americas is a half myth. I don't know the source anymore, but I remember that it said Columbus didn't know what land he was on, but he did know that it was foreign and undiscovered, and he definitely knew it wasn't India.
Maybe this is wrong, but this would make more sense then him wrongly believing to have reached India. I mean hundreds of trained crewmates would just navigate without solid knowledge of how to use an astrolabe to know where they are on the globe? This doesn't sound right to me.
There are a shit ton of myths surrounding colombus, both about his personal character (him being a genocidal monster) and about his intelligence and knowledge (him believing he had reached India) Colombus knew the world was round and had access to some of the best maps of the world at his time, even having knowledge of Japan's existence (though its shape and exact location was unknown) When he first landed in the islands off the Americas he surmised that he was on an island somewhere close to Japan. His only real mistake was that he mistook the true distance and circumference of the earth, a completely understandable error given that no one had a good idea of the true circumference of the earth (though many map makers had had some close estimates prior, such as some Greek mathamaticians)
The astrolabe was used to determine latitude but not longitude. Accurate methods to determine longitude weren't available at the time. So they could have a quite precise idea of where they were on the globe north/south but their position east/west was basically guesswork.
Columbus never doubted he had reached some part of Asia. His basic mistake was using Toscanelli's map, instead of Eratosthene's (almost exact) measure. Many ancients had the calculation correct, also. The map was off by 25% or so.
@@lamwen03 I agree
I wouldnt diss on Toscanelli however either just on the basis that he was a well known and regarded map maker, and for his time his maps are actually quite informative, even if the scaling of his globe is off by a wide margin. At the end of the day its silly to call these people simpletons when they were essentially making do with what they had.
Its like if we start space faring in the next century and then 1000 years later people call us morons for not knowing that we could use warp travel or something. Unfair to judge people of the past by the metric of knowledge
This would make sense to me because at that time India wasnt anything new, people must had known how India looked like, so I wouldn't be surprised if he actually knew that he wasn't on India
it was awesome. I woke up to the all-conquering positivity of your vows. Congrats again and thank you for the vibes
Hi Metatron, as an ESL Teacher I am in awe of your English. One slight slip which seems to crop up in almost every video is that you tend to leave out or misplace the auxiliary verb after Not only. So, as you know, you need to say Not only did.../Not only would...Not only do/does etc... It's really minor and doesn't affect meaning at all but the pedant in me wants to comment on it.
Congratulations on your wedding Metatron. Will continue to learn much topics from you in future videos.
Another Sicilian word for a fruit which gives away its provenance, as opposed to Italian is the peach.
In Italian the word is _pesca,_ but in Sicilian the word is, “persica;” literally Persian, since Persia is where Europe acquired these fruits.
in my language, we call it pêra
Persica is the original Latin word, that still lives on in many Italian dialects. Not only Sicilian but also Roman and others.
In Swedish it's called "persika".
Romanian: piersica
Or Persic I’m from the top of the country
Congratulations! I wish you two only all the very best for your future. Such fantastic news.
I had no idea I could have video attended your wedding! I hope you two are doing even better now after the honeymoon stage. Cheers!
8:15 The name Kerasous corresponds to κερασός (kerasós) "cherry" + -ουντ (a place marker). Kerasous was founded by Ancient Greek settlers much before the Romans came to the area. I've noticed that in many videos the Greek roots of many Latin words are overlooked and coveyed as purely Latin.
Name checks out
Maybe you he considered the target group.
16:02 I don't think that we will find a Roman scutum on Mars, but I bet we'll find some Viking remains.
Wow! Thank you for being so thorough and insightful. Well done!
My pleasure!
Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials! I wish you both many many years together and all the best. So happy for you both!
Thank you again Metatron for blessing us with that exciting update! Godspeed to you and your fiance!
Didn’t the Romans have ships that were unsuited for travelling across the Atlantic. After all their ships were suited for crossing the quite calm Mediterranean rather than rather choppy Atlantic or something.
there is a chance to make it across the atlantic ocean even with a vessel that is not suited for that task.
But even if that chance exists and even if a ship (maybe lost due to storms) managed to reach the shore, then finding any trace of it is really low.
That same ship making it back is about as likely as winning the jackpot in a lottery 50 times in a row.
Mostly you are right: the Roman ships, without triangular sail until the very late imperial period (started diffusing in the third century but it was not really common until the end of the fourth century, few decades before the end of the Roman Empire), were not able to sail against the wind. However they were able for example to travel to India through the Indian Ocean, and it was not an easy travel at all. Because of the ship characteristics, they were able only to go _or_ come back, only for a short period of time every year, when the monsoon were favourable: each year they were going (from modern day Egypt/Eritrea) when the wind pushed toward east, and coming back when it was pushing from west, waiting 6 months in Southern India. In two cities (in Kerala and Tamil Nadu, west and east coast of India) there were a small Roman quarter in the city where the merchants waited the wind to turn, with a temple to Augustus.
Could the Romans have travelled the Atlantic? Knowing where America was, and the winds behaviour in each season, likely yes. But you cannot really sail the Ocean randomly with a boat that has to go rowing if the wind is not perfectly aligned.
They weren't suited for it but with extremely luck maybe
The Mediterranean fleet was far different than the North Sea fleet that was used to try and combat pirating etc. from the various Germanic tribes near Gaul and Britannia. They were constructed to deal with the rougher waters and would have been much better suited for any hypothetical trip across the Atlantic as they used the same training ground as the Vikings would years later. Mike Duncan's history of Rome podcast has a few episodes dedicated to this. I don't know if they made it to the Americas, but in theory they could have hopped from Britain to Iceland, Greenland and then Canada much like the Vikings did later.
@@MrRabiddogg thats like saying the norse got to japan the same way the mongols did. this video does a excellent job squashing this fan fiction.
congrats my friend watched ur channel for so long
so glad you found ur mate
viva victoria!
Maybe I missed it and someone has already mentioned these, but three further points.
1) Pineapples are not the only exotic (to the Romans) they should have brought back; where are depictions/mentions of cacao, vanilla, tomatoes, chilis, potatoes, maize, etc, etc? Why only pineapples?
2) There are durable goods that should exist; why have we found no examples of New World woods or stones in Italy? Central American jade or rare varieties of obsidian, for example?
3) Contact should have brought technological changes to the Americas, especially in (but not limited to) metallurgy. No cultures in the Americas show such a jump at any point, nor do Roman architectural styles or methods show up in Pre-Classic or Classical buildings.
There are a large number of potential signs of contact that should show up in one of the most studied cultures in history (referring to the Romans); the very fact that people have to look so hard to find a few questionable examples tells me all I need to know (for now).
The Metatron is back with yet more cheek clapping historical goodness! You tell them Metatron! You’re the one and true God of History!!!!
There's a place not too far from here named Fisterra (from Finisterrae, or however it'd exactly be spelled) meaning it was the furthest you could go West, as the Earth (Terra) literally ended (Fini) there. Probably Romans would've re-baptised it with some other name if they had actually found such a mass of land as The Americas are, or maybe not, maybe they'd have kept it the same way just as a reminder of what they used to think was the end of the earth, who knows.
that's why the spanish moto is "plus ultra", meaning "there's more"
The Pozzino Shipwreck is notorious for being the first space lizard incursion and I'm glad our speaker took correct precaution to discuss it
Congratulazioni professore! Ti auguro il meglio!! ♥️💪🏻
In the image we can easily see a pinecone in front of leaves of some sort. If you pay close attention the "leaves" are not located in the exact same place as the crown of a Pineapple, instead they are slightly slanted upwards, which would result in a very weird pineapple, if it was a pineapple
OMG CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!! I'm so proud of you man!!
Congratulations on the engagement, Raf!
I look foward for the wedding! Congratulations!
Crossing the Atlantic is a treacherous voyage at the best of times, even today. The Romans clearly did not yet have the technology for cross-Atlantic trade. But strange things are known to happen. If Romans did make it to the Americas, they never made it home. They would have been considered lost at sea.
The geographical location of Rome made it pointless to sail across the sea. Any sane sailor sticks to the coast and short routes. The Atlantic is indeed far too expansive and treacherous.
Yeah, also their ships were made for Mediterranean Sea and not for Atlantic Ocean, which is why Norse reached North America since they should adapt their ships to journey in the North Sea, part of Atlantic.
Yup. The draught and displacement of triremes/quinqueremes are just too narrow and shallow to make a cross Atlantic journey successfully. Those ships were built to glide quickly across shallow seas, but it also meant you had to stick close to the shore, anytime you left sight of land you were taking a pretty big gamble, any bad weather and you were sunk. Even the sort of proto-dhow vessels they were using in the Indian Ocean that could successfully cross deep ocean were limited to certain times of year they could make the journey - but those types of ships weren't used in the Mediterranean until after the Arab conquests, without which Europeans would have never developed Caravels, Carracks, Galleons, etc.
if the Polynesians can cross the Pacific, the romans can cross the Atlantic.
@@tuoy1 if
Romans documented everything. Absolutely everything. If they indeed discovered a new continent they would abslutely have it recorded somewhere.
We know the romans well enough to know that the idea they may have reached america and not bragged about it in length and numerous works is absolutely ridiculous.
Congratulations on the engagement :)
It was possible for someone in the ancient time where some civilizations have founded the Americas and traded with the Indians. But, we do not have enough or any evidences to prove it. The chances are none to slim to prove it for now. Maybe someday in the future that we would have better technology or a time machine to see if there are any proofs.
i think this is an optimistic idea, but i fear that possible doesn't mean viable
its not unlikely. what if there was an island between the two, just close enough to resupply, but far out enough to reach america?
@@tuoy1 you need also a vessel capable to go there and back in a (semi) realiable way, a thing that romans and so on didn't have. expecially romans ship were not build do sail away from the coast, not for more than a couple of day anyway
Thank you for the video. I didn't about this specific controversy. Well it's still highly unlikely that Romans ever laid a foot on the American continent. When you look in the records as you mentioned fruit considered as exotic weren't from as far away as is the American continent. Given the technological means of this era it wouldn't have been impossible but still very challenging. For the Northern people that did reach the American continent they first established a colony in Greenland that helped them to go further. Plus the travel distance between Iceland/Norway and Greenland is greatly lower than let's say Spain instead of Italy to Florida. And in the end to what end I mean if romans were there I think they would have brought back more than just pineapple given the expenses and hardships of such a journey...
Can you do the Voynich Manuscript anytime soon. The Sunflowers reminded me of it
It remembers me the "flying saucer hieroglyph"... :o))
Thank you for this video, it was very interesting.