Your courses are great, very well done, lots of good info delivered in bite size pieces. If there's anything you see in the video (or any of our videos) that can be corrected or improved upon, please chime in any time!
Bracing on the catch rather than a trailing brace is something I have improved on since learning K1, as there is no call for trailing brace on k1, and heavy bracing on catch is essential for balance. This in turn really helps when paddling across messy chop on the ski where aggressive catch bracing is essential also. I think we are all too fond of throwing out the trailing brace willy nilly just waiting to see whats going to happen next, giving control to the water rather that taking control over the water The point you make on paddling on the back of a wave is good for keeping speed up, before you wallow in the trough
I’m hoping to try a friends K1 when the weather is warmer as I am sure to go for a swim. He tells me that paddling a K1 will do wonders for my Surfski paddling.
@@barryblackburn5910 It will reinforce using the paddle for stability and not on any inherent primary stability of the boat as in an ICF racing K1 there is hardly any. Best of luck ..looking forward to the bloopers vid..lol
The difference between beginners and intermediates is that beginners take the first stroke at 40%, second at 60%, third at 80%, and fourth at 100% and miss the wave. Cause they don’t want to lose their balance. Intermediates take all four at 100%. Practice paddling on flat water at 4.5mph or so then take 4 strokes at 100% . The skis get tippy when popping power but this drill will get you use to it and will learn to trust your balance and ski. And time in the boat.
@@barryblackburn5910 Nice! Marathon paddlers do short 1.5, 2, 3, 5, 10, 20 min intervals, even an hour of power. Downwind rec paddling is about 4 to 10 stroke intervals. Downwind racers have to do both. Sometimes the waves are just super peaky and it can't be help. I see in videos that some of the top paddles stay away from the center peaks of the large waves and always opt for the shoulders surfing away from the center peaks. Sometimes new short fetch waves can be very peaky. Bow free surfing doesn't work on those waves, one must quickly tick over those waves, or go to the lesser shoulder.
Jim, sounds like you have been paddling for a while. Where do you live? There are very few Surfski paddlers in the Wilmington, NC area. I love downwinding and have been paddling OC1 for about 5 years so I understand about finding the shoulders of the bumps. Surfski has been a fun challenge and we are starting to connect even more bumps because of the higher average speeds attainable. Thanks again for the tips. Always learning.
I can totally relate to this and interesting topic. I'm no expert, but what has helped me is to practice turning off the run slightly at the end of the run before it catches up with you. This way you roll over it and hopefully keep most of your momentum for the next one instead of falling off the back and slowing down. But not always possible when the conditions are short and close. If you steer/ change direction too much though you can run the risk or broaching on the next run so it takes some practice. Thanks for the vid.
Great tip, Luke. We've been playing a lot lately with trying to use more (or rather, better) steering to stay in the right place on the bump, but hadn't really considered its effect on preventing swamping. We normally have short period swell here in southeastern NC, so properly steering on the bump is a critical skill, we're finding. Thanks for sharing!
@@henrikandreason7261 good question. I think the only way to answer that is with more experience we will figure that out. More falling out and then as we downwind more we will see our speed stay up and in turn less swamping of the cockpit. I find that when I let my average speed go below 5 mph it is easier to get stuck at the top/back of a bump and not have the speed to catch the bump behind it and I get swamped. Speed is key. Keeping the speed up takes experience I think. Something I am still learning.
Hmmm, never thought about the fact that I might be not paddling when my boat gets swamped when trying to catch a wave on a downwind. Next time I'll try to focus on that. In my mind swamping seems to happen when I think I can catch a wave but I just can't quite get over the the crest, then the boat ( and me!) gets stalled out and then sinks down. What I try to do is judge whether a particular wave is catchable or not. If not i let off with the power before the boat get stalled and swamped. Of course there's always a bit of testing of myself whether to go or not to go to get on a wave. Sometimes i gauge it wrong and pay the price! Some skis do have higher gunnels/ deeper buckets which can keep water out longer but if you swamp more water is in your boat to slow you down. Some skis do have less area for water to sit in in the cockpit ( double foot well ) Great to see some "home grown" state-side surfski You-tube material! thanks, Joel, Monterey Bay, California ( Huki S1-X 2012 )
Joel, that's a great observation -- that definitely happens with us if we try to force our way over an "uncatchable" wave. Learning which bumps to let go and which to go for is helping. As they say, "There's always another one behind..." Thanks for bringing that up! If you haven't seen it, check out Jim's Smith's video at ua-cam.com/video/LCbodpxsh6k/v-deo.html. He has a pretty unique idea for reducing water in the footwell. We haven't tried it, but it's interesting.
Great comment. I like your idea of being selective on which bumps to go for. I have also noticed the ski swamps more when I can’t quite catch the bump and I get “stuck” so to speak and stall out.
Barry should try to get his hands on a Vega to demo. I also have a 1st gen v10 and got to try the Vega for a week recently. I actually found it much more stable than the v10 which is amazing for an elite ski, bucket feels very similar, but the sides are higher which makes it a very dry ride. I'll be ordering one for next year's ozone shipment.
An observation about the idea of stable vs less stable ski- the unstable ski gets stable when paddling or sliding on the wave. I find it is not the boat that is unstable but fitness level. A stable boat requires less fitness because you can rest even on chop. The unstable one needs to move to gain stability as the primary stability is lower than that of a stable ski, but has a better secondary stability. Improving static balance [which is more a matter of getting used with an unstable foundation] may help somewhat but I believe is building up stamina, which is what primarily counts. In choppy water, especially paddling upwind, I get more tired paddling an unstable ski than a stable one, over the same distance. Probably because it is less forgiving of lazy/imprecise strokes and requires a more erect position in the boat over prolonged time. I feel the back muscles aching after a while and cannot just slouch back as I do in the stable boat unless I risk flipping- I know, I can get legs out and rest like that but this is about the idea of paddling efficiently/with less effort, not about resting.
These are good observations regarding fitness/stamina. Based on our experience, stamina + paddler stability + speed (and also steering and positioning) can all help prevent broaching. Good stuff, thank you!
Most of the swamping examples you show are when a wave you're trying to catch breaks on your bucket. There's another category, especially in short period tide race conditions, when a wave pops up in front of one you're riding, and water comes into the bucket from the front. This can be lessened by using a spray deflector.
That definitely does make a difference. Doing that, waiting for the next one, and keeping speed up by paddling as described in the vid when already on a bump definitely seem to be helping. We might figure this out one day! :)
4:18 As a side note, Barry rarely swamps his V11...maybe the greater length and lower sides of the Gen 1 V10 make it more susceptible to swamping in this short period swell?
Yep, you got it! Or, just continue your stroke -- it doesn't have to be an especially strong stroke...sometimes just having that stability of a regular stroke will do the trick.
Bucket depth can be a factor, but what we've learned since this video is that boat speed is key. Becoming comfortable with balance, maintaining leg drive, and of course, reading the water better, all combine to significantly reduce broaching. When we say "boat speed", we're not talking all out sprint-like-a-maniac speed (necessarily), but a speed that keeps us in the "flow" of the conditions...if that makes sense.
Atleast with my old surfski theres no where for water to sit i guess not that it natters yet as the waves just made my two hours of flat practise look like a joke hhahaha
When we first started on the surfski, despite having been paddling OC1s quite a bit, we found our surfski limit was about 45 minutes. After that, our core was just too fatigued to have good stability...even on flat water. Good on ya!
Hey thanks for the mention of our courses! And very well explained! Let me know if you have any questions. All the best, God Bless
Your courses are great, very well done, lots of good info delivered in bite size pieces. If there's anything you see in the video (or any of our videos) that can be corrected or improved upon, please chime in any time!
Bracing on the catch rather than a trailing brace is something I have improved on since learning K1, as there is no call for trailing brace on k1, and heavy bracing on catch is essential for balance. This in turn really helps when paddling across messy chop on the ski where aggressive catch bracing is essential also. I think we are all too fond of throwing out the trailing brace willy nilly just waiting to see whats going to happen next, giving control to the water rather that taking control over the water
The point you make on paddling on the back of a wave is good for keeping speed up, before you wallow in the trough
"...giving control to the water rather that taking control over the water"
I’m hoping to try a friends K1 when the weather is warmer as I am sure to go for a swim. He tells me that paddling a K1 will do wonders for my Surfski paddling.
@@barryblackburn5910 It will reinforce using the paddle for stability and not on any inherent primary stability of the boat as in an ICF racing K1 there is hardly any. Best of luck ..looking forward to the bloopers vid..lol
The difference between beginners and intermediates is that beginners take the first stroke at 40%, second at 60%, third at 80%, and fourth at 100% and miss the wave. Cause they don’t want to lose their balance. Intermediates take all four at 100%. Practice paddling on flat water at 4.5mph or so then take 4 strokes at 100% . The skis get tippy when popping power but this drill will get you use to it and will learn to trust your balance and ski. And time in the boat.
Great drill idea! We will definitely try that out. Your summary of the strokes is spot on, based on what we've done and are learning.
Very interesting and I think you are spot on. Thank you very much for this. That is a GREAT idea for a drill.
We practiced this today in flat water!! Thank you so very much, it really felt good to do 4 strokes at 100%. Next we will try in the ocean.
@@barryblackburn5910 Nice! Marathon paddlers do short 1.5, 2, 3, 5, 10, 20 min intervals, even an hour of power. Downwind rec paddling is about 4 to 10 stroke intervals. Downwind racers have to do both. Sometimes the waves are just super peaky and it can't be help. I see in videos that some of the top paddles stay away from the center peaks of the large waves and always opt for the shoulders surfing away from the center peaks. Sometimes new short fetch waves can be very peaky. Bow free surfing doesn't work on those waves, one must quickly tick over those waves, or go to the lesser shoulder.
Jim, sounds like you have been paddling for a while. Where do you live? There are very few Surfski paddlers in the Wilmington, NC area. I love downwinding and have been paddling OC1 for about 5 years so I understand about finding the shoulders of the bumps. Surfski has been a fun challenge and we are starting to connect even more bumps because of the higher average speeds attainable. Thanks again for the tips. Always learning.
I can totally relate to this and interesting topic. I'm no expert, but what has helped me is to practice turning off the run slightly at the end of the run before it catches up with you. This way you roll over it and hopefully keep most of your momentum for the next one instead of falling off the back and slowing down. But not always possible when the conditions are short and close. If you steer/ change direction too much though you can run the risk or broaching on the next run so it takes some practice. Thanks for the vid.
Great tip, Luke. We've been playing a lot lately with trying to use more (or rather, better) steering to stay in the right place on the bump, but hadn't really considered its effect on preventing swamping. We normally have short period swell here in southeastern NC, so properly steering on the bump is a critical skill, we're finding. Thanks for sharing!
I watched this video AGAIN today and learned something. Definitely going to try this “paddle through” technique vs bracing on our next downwinder.
But my question is then when to brace, or not to 🤔?
@@henrikandreason7261 good question. I think the only way to answer that is with more experience we will figure that out. More falling out and then as we downwind more we will see our speed stay up and in turn less swamping of the cockpit. I find that when I let my average speed go below 5 mph it is easier to get stuck at the top/back of a bump and not have the speed to catch the bump behind it and I get swamped. Speed is key. Keeping the speed up takes experience I think. Something I am still learning.
Hmmm, never thought about the fact that I might be not paddling when my boat gets swamped when trying to catch a wave on a downwind. Next time I'll try to focus on that. In my mind swamping seems to happen when I think I can catch a wave but I just can't quite get over the the crest, then the boat ( and me!) gets stalled out and then sinks down. What I try to do is judge whether a particular wave is catchable or not. If not i let off with the power before the boat get stalled and swamped. Of course there's always a bit of testing of myself whether to go or not to go to get on a wave. Sometimes i gauge it wrong and pay the price! Some skis do have higher gunnels/ deeper buckets which can keep water out longer but if you swamp more water is in your boat to slow you down. Some skis do have less area for water to sit in in the cockpit ( double foot well ) Great to see some "home grown" state-side surfski You-tube material! thanks, Joel, Monterey Bay, California ( Huki S1-X 2012 )
Joel, that's a great observation -- that definitely happens with us if we try to force our way over an "uncatchable" wave. Learning which bumps to let go and which to go for is helping. As they say, "There's always another one behind..." Thanks for bringing that up!
If you haven't seen it, check out Jim's Smith's video at ua-cam.com/video/LCbodpxsh6k/v-deo.html. He has a pretty unique idea for reducing water in the footwell. We haven't tried it, but it's interesting.
Great comment. I like your idea of being selective on which bumps to go for. I have also noticed the ski swamps more when I can’t quite catch the bump and I get “stuck” so to speak and stall out.
Barry should try to get his hands on a Vega to demo. I also have a 1st gen v10 and got to try the Vega for a week recently. I actually found it much more stable than the v10 which is amazing for an elite ski, bucket feels very similar, but the sides are higher which makes it a very dry ride. I'll be ordering one for next year's ozone shipment.
We've heard lots of good comments about the Vega...'haven't seen one in person around here though. Waiting...
Thanks Tony!! I would love to try the Vega.
An observation about the idea of stable vs less stable ski- the unstable ski gets stable when paddling or sliding on the wave. I find it is not the boat that is unstable but fitness level. A stable boat requires less fitness because you can rest even on chop. The unstable one needs to move to gain stability as the primary stability is lower than that of a stable ski, but has a better secondary stability. Improving static balance [which is more a matter of getting used with an unstable foundation] may help somewhat but I believe is building up stamina, which is what primarily counts.
In choppy water, especially paddling upwind, I get more tired paddling an unstable ski than a stable one, over the same distance. Probably because it is less forgiving of lazy/imprecise strokes and requires a more erect position in the boat over prolonged time. I feel the back muscles aching after a while and cannot just slouch back as I do in the stable boat unless I risk flipping- I know, I can get legs out and rest like that but this is about the idea of paddling efficiently/with less effort, not about resting.
These are good observations regarding fitness/stamina. Based on our experience, stamina + paddler stability + speed (and also steering and positioning) can all help prevent broaching. Good stuff, thank you!
Most of the swamping examples you show are when a wave you're trying to catch breaks on your bucket. There's another category, especially in short period tide race conditions, when a wave pops up in front of one you're riding, and water comes into the bucket from the front. This can be lessened by using a spray deflector.
Cool observation, David, thanks!
As Oscar says only go for waves you are 99% sure you can catch, give up early on all others, for this very reason of swamping
That definitely does make a difference. Doing that, waiting for the next one, and keeping speed up by paddling as described in the vid when already on a bump definitely seem to be helping. We might figure this out one day! :)
As a newbie, I appreciate your tips and instruction. Could you please post a link to the training program you mentioned? Thanks.
Jim, you can find their online courses at www.101learn.online/category/sport/surfski/. Buy the bundle --- it's well worth it! Lots of great info.
4:18 As a side note, Barry rarely swamps his V11...maybe the greater length and lower sides of the Gen 1 V10 make it more susceptible to swamping in this short period swell?
Yes, the V11 (made for downwinding) definitely swamps much less that the first generation V10 (made for flat water).
So do you basically just do a strong stroke on the same side that you would normally do a brace?
Yep, you got it! Or, just continue your stroke -- it doesn't have to be an especially strong stroke...sometimes just having that stability of a regular stroke will do the trick.
Can the bucket depth be a factor?
Bucket depth can be a factor, but what we've learned since this video is that boat speed is key. Becoming comfortable with balance, maintaining leg drive, and of course, reading the water better, all combine to significantly reduce broaching. When we say "boat speed", we're not talking all out sprint-like-a-maniac speed (necessarily), but a speed that keeps us in the "flow" of the conditions...if that makes sense.
Atleast with my old surfski theres no where for water to sit i guess not that it natters yet as the waves just made my two hours of flat practise look like a joke hhahaha
When we first started on the surfski, despite having been paddling OC1s quite a bit, we found our surfski limit was about 45 minutes. After that, our core was just too fatigued to have good stability...even on flat water. Good on ya!