If the Thai government goes through with this and wants to charge me taxes on my retirement, I'll just buy myself a plane ticket and go back to America. Then I can start looking for a new place to live. ❤
Lmao someone does not clearly understand the Thai law as always it's these US foreigners who cry out. If you are not wealthy then this does not apply to you 😂😂😂😂 typical people with capital who do not want their money being taxed but want to stay somewhere where the laws benefit them
Don't fly back to America. Fly straight to Cambodia then Laos for a while. I have a Thai wife but plan on spending time in other Southeast Asia countries.
exactly ,I plan to retire to Thailand but if this tax does happen I will just use it as an opportunity to spend six months of the year exploring Vietnam ,Cambodia,phillipines ,Laos ,Japan etc so not bad for plan b@@anthonylutz118
Nobody knows what is going to happen people just just chill out. I think they are talking about Thais that work outside Thailand that send money back here.
I planned to retire to Thailand, but now have switched to Cambodia. Moved here to Cambodia this year and it is an easy $290/yr retirement visa for 1 yr with nothing else needed as long at you are over 55.
@ShaneLars Hey, I just came back from Cambodia to Thailand where I am retired (from USA) and Cambodia is 30 years behind Thailand in development. Plus: prices were 2 & 3x more for regular things like food and drink. I did not stay long enough to price cost of living. Just an FYI.
@@XplorWme new tax system and retirement visa systems still make Cambodia a better deal. I live in Kampot, and it is much cheaper than in Thailand here, for western goods yes expensive, but day to day is okay.
Should Thailand tax expats this will have a devastating negative impact on high end housing, real estate markets, private schools, private hospitals and high end businesses as expats will explore and exercise other options. All the hurdles, hoops & loops an expat has to deal with to attain a retirement or marriage visa and to now have tax implications here in the Kingdom is not in the best interests of current or future expat retiree's. This tax issue has probably already changed the plans of many expats gearing up to move and retire into Thailand in 2024.
It's changed my plans. I was going to be doing a year lease starting in January here in Bangkok, now I'm going back home to USA instead after my next visa runs out end of February, then coming back for the last 4 months of 2024. This whole tax law nonsense has thrown a wrench in many peoples plans. Might be looking elsewhere entirely now.
@@OneJame Lived in Thailand past 15 years and I am doing what I thought I would never do … scoping a place back in Canada. I am 58, retired and multi millionaire Makes no sense to throw good money at bad Gonna’ play the game and not waste my money in Thailand Disappointed and frustrated
Before people worry too much, they should check the applicable tax treaty. For example, the tax treaty between Thailand and the United States provides that Social Security and government pension benefits will be taxed in the country of origin, only.
@@fedogma8407 When they write the tax treaties, they choose their words carefully. The part of the treaty I’m referring to speaks of “public pensions.”
@@marcusaurelius9123 Another question is if a farang is a resident, since they live here over 180 days, would they need to get a tax ID number and show evidence that the money they bring into Thailand does not meet the requirements for taxation? But since they say a Thai tax resident maybe that would exclude me sin I am a farang resident. Hard to say what has changed in the meaning with the translation to English. Time will tell. All I know is that Thailand acts in mysterious ways.
It's the same for French people living in Thailand. There is bilateral tax treaty between both countries that makes double imposition impossible.Some of my fellow countrymen told me that whatever happens we will have to declare the amount of pension money transfered on the thai bank account and this amount will be automatically taxed. Then after showing proof of pension and according to the country we will get a refund. It sounds awfully complicated and I must say I already start to lurk on the Philippines. I already feel like a prisonner on parole with the 90 days report but if on top of that they double tax me I will go somewhere else.🤔 Too much is too much!
I used to watch all of your videos 10 years again. I retired here 9 years ago. Now nothing here surprises me. Long ago I tried to import 2 racing motorcycles and used an import agent. I lost $10,000 plus the 2 motorcycles! Yep, the Amazing Thailand
So I'm currently required by Immigration to bring-in a minimum of B65k per-month, to get my annual retirement-extension, yet the rules are changing after 38-year so that above B20k I'll need to be paying Thai-income-tax ? When I originally saved my earnings or made pension-contributions decades ago, it was all out of taxed money too. Then I'm taxed again, when my family or I spend this money in Thailand, VAT & petrol-tax & excise-duty & airport-tax for example, how many times is fair ? We are old & tired & retired, just want to live quietly now, spending our remaining years & money here, my wife says she doesn't want a pay-cut !
So its not just our country's government that takes our money but someone else's government want our money to. Money equals hard earned time, and time we will never ever get back.
Yes, but they have bviously haven’t thought through all the bad implications if their bill. Many times they enact a law and then amend it after thinking it through. They won’t be able to accurately find any income from westerners. There are so many ways around it. I use to just bring in cash through my Charkes scwab account card at an atm. They can’t trace that, even if it’s new profit I’m making in the u.s.
Implementation is now delayed until July 2024. I think the pushback from Thai business is increasing. I'd expect to see revisions in this law or for it to be completely rescinded. The Thai government's constant inconsistencies in the application of laws and policies and their short notice Implementation of new laws affecting expats is why I'd NEVER buy anything of significant value in Thailand. Just never know when it'll be time to leave for good.
JC, a good video and thanks for including the video interview by CMIT. That was helpful since my income is from social security and a non-taxable income source. I will probably move to Thailand under a marriage visa with my Thai wife in a couple of years. For now, we reside in the states for over half a year and a few months in Thailand.
If the ฿67,000 on income method is being remitted into Thailand for retirement is coming from a pension, savings 401(k) or Roth IRA, why should it be taxed at all? The accountant featured hasn't a clue and is guessing. He's talking about credit cards? Please!!! Using his logic they should also tax the 800, 000 baht banked for retirement during the year it’s brought in. Both scenarios are ridiculous as is his analysis. What happens if you incur a hefty medical bill and transfer in 100K to pay the bill? Is that income? How does one prove up we paid tax? Tax returns ? 🤣🤣Clear as mud. Great Vlog JC. Keep us posted .
Nat’s English skills were shining in this video! JC, I’m with you on this. I’ll wait and see what happens before I get all worked up. And I really have enjoyed all of the farming videos you have made. I always got a very positive “Green Acres” vibe every time I watched one. Thanks for all you two do showing us what’s possible.
@@rob-xb3vp where there's a will there's a way. I still hold my EU residency. Just a guest in Thailand on a Non O. I own nothing here and don't work here. All my income is from outside of Thailand.
@@ShoelessNomadThailand There may be a will but not a way. I've tried to get a wise card but the fact is they won't give you one if you reside in Thailand and even if you had one from outside Thailand you couldn't use it in any ATM's in Thailand.
More documents, forms and long lines. Thailand is so stuck in the "Better to be in the way than on the way" building waiting rooms instead of working on becoming efficient.
Like the sign I saw on "Bad Driving in Thailand" channel: "Bad intersection ahead" or the Thai line painter on roads that actually painted the solid white line around a palm frond laying in the roadway rather than simply toss it aside and continue with the straight line.
The tax advisors rubbing their hands ... You don't need a tax advisor. Just bring some funds into Thailand in a year in which you are less than 180 days living there or transfer funds through a person which lives completely outside or less thand 180 days inside.
If it does go through I can see them bringing in convoluted rules and requirements for documents that are almost impossible to obtain. That’s the Thai way.
This guys team did a presentation to the Pattaya City Expat Club a couple of weeks ago. I think everyone’s fear is that 1st January next year passes and the Thai Revenue department take the 12 months after that to come up with their interpretation of their rules and how the tax treaties are applied. I think taxing the average retiree here is going to fall into the too difficult to deal with category and they will go after the big fish importing overseas earnings into Thailand.
Just remember your a guest in thailand and you will have to do what they say. And if you're going to be taxed they will let you know at the time and it's pay up or leave.
Seems like people need to understand better what the definition of income is. Then understand what savings are in that context and then read this proposed law again.
My Australian disability pension is not taxable in Australia in my situation...so if they tax my pension it will hurt ..my wife wll not leave Thailand so wat do walk away from my family here. Australian pension is only 46.900 baht they will force me to work ilegally ... or just walk away from My wife....this is so wrong...this adds stress to my life that i do not like....then we talk about the changes they want to make to us attaining a visa to live here Thailand is giving itself a bad name .
Thanks for this JC. I don't think they will tax social security, but if they do I will just cut back on spending that same amount in the Thai economy. If I lose, they lose......Sal : )
The US already taxes social security, and I applied for mine in June of 2021. The last letter I got from them in January of 2023 said, "we cannot pay your benefit at this time" no reason given. I will have to visit an office when I return next year. Our government is scum. Politicians in the US have been screwing us since Reagan. They need to have all their pensions and federal benefits taken away, retroactively!
Non issue really. The fact you are a foreigner in Thailand has little to do with the problematic. What matters is that you are a fiscal resident of Thailand (Or elsewhere). If you are a fiscal resident, then you must pay taxes. Has been like this in many countries for years. Some fancy countries have not taxed WW income for many reasons, but this is nothing new and gaps are closing. All governments need money. And they will get it one way or another.
Malaysia, Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam & Laos don’t tax Expats on monies they bring in from overseas. In Countries we’re your a tax resident & pay taxes you get access to the services those taxes pay for same as Nationals but not in Thailand. The Universal Healthcare Scheme is funded from General taxation & National Parks are mostly funded from General taxation but Thailand not saying they going to give tax paying Expats the same access to the UHS etc. No indeed they seem to be happy that we have to pay to use the UCS & not just pay but pay at the higher dual price which is at least 50% more than other ASEAN Nationals pay & we pay 5 times what a Thai pays to enter a National Park.
No problem, easy compromise. Just start paying fees for access to public roads, and parks! I'd happily pay an education tax that went to local roads and schools, that's my community, those are my people. Try to look at it through multiple lenses :)
So if I get a pension from the military, rental income, dividend income, and social security income. They will tax all of that and I get taxed in America as well? Also, if I work here online they will tax my earned income as well? That would be shooting themselves in the foot and detrimental to their future. They could fine us for not paying and then trap us in the country. You try to leave they stop you at the airport and tell you to pay some exorbitant fine or go to a Thai prison for six months to a year.
I'm no expert but this is what I see in the tax treaty. According to Article 20 of the tax treaty, Social Security and pension income is taxed only in the country contracting in the treaty. So there should not be taxation on Social Security, military, other pension income, or annuities. Article 10 covers dividend income. Regarding dividend and interest income, it gets a lot more complicated but is likely taxable in Thailand. Likewise, income earned working online while you are physically present in Thailand will likely be consider either employment or business income and would be taxable in Thailand. However, if your online employment/business income is taxed in Thailand, you may be able to avoid having that same money taxed again on your U.S. tax return by claiming either the Foreign Earned Income Tax Credit or Foreign Earned Income Exclusion on your U.S Tax return. And lastly, regarding charges of income tax evasion in Thailand, they could of course prevent you from leaving the country until you pay up, imprison you, or basically do whatever Thai law allow.
Late 60s first time I was in Thailand. Many US military married Thais many of whom later lived in Thailand on the pension. Late 80s the next time I went there and was there nearly every year for the next 30 or so. Lots of the US pensioners had to move out, their pensions became insufficient - didn't have the health cover etc, etc. About every 5 years there were changes to being able to be in Thailand. The Bangkok Post and the Nation were good to read up until the mid 90s. One of the reasons for me not to retire there was the changes implied, implemented by the Thai gov' over the 30 odd yrs that I went there. The Thai Consulate worker at Kota Baru complained that I had not shown respect - I should wear trousers not shorts. He had not walked for 20 mins in the heat, arrived early in the morning and had to wait for the Consulate to open 15 mins later than as stated. TIT TAT TAT, TIT TAT. Where's a cheap hotel? Beach! Today squash day. You squash. Thai drive road roller. Hospital passageway damaged people laying about - no money. Phuket town fire in life and death - skeletons chained together.
Philippines & Laos don’t tax Expats on money brought in from overseas. 2 years ago Malaysia announced they where going to do what Thailand has said now only to to do a complete U-Turn before it was implemented & kicking it down the road for at least 5 years. Cambodia tax rules do say for tax residents income from abroad is subject to Cambodia tax but it is not implemented & I doubt they have the mechanisms or want to impose it.
Of what significance to anyone would my opinion be on this question? I am retired, and if I don’t like the cost of living where I am, I’ll consider relocating somewhere else. Governments are always (ALWAYS) trolling for revenue. In some places, they’ll make things attractive for retirees, because they’ve calculated they’ll spend more than it’ll cost them. But that can change. In any case, there’s nothing one can do in a foreign country to influence their public policy.
It's plain wrong. If Thailand does this I will never retire in Thailand. I have already paid taxes on all the money I have earned in America and it's just plain wrong as a 60 year old women to have to try a pay taxes on money I have already earned and paid taxes on.
You used the words"might" and " could" so why not wait until something is announced by the Thai government and not tax accountents who are speculating? I've watched over a dozen videos beginning over a year ago and still nothing has changed. Please find another topic to record about. Thank you.
This is what happens when the bankers take over the political/law making process. It is no different in the US where every year the government takes more and more from poor and working class people and GIVEs more and more to the rich via tax cuts.
Who is going to look through every foreigner's finances to determine how much money is subject to tax and how much isn't? And retirement income is taxed lower in the US than general income in Thailand.
I left bangkok just begore covid ... Life was so aggressive and daily living stepping outside ,taxis etc was getting awful and vontinued 90 day reporting after years living there ... Grated ..now they wznt more and more ... Better love elsewhere tax territorial lesshassle and agro ..just go odd holidays if yiu can bear it ...
Seems too complicated probably a lot of experts are going to pack bags and leave Thailand. We were going to move there to retire but at this point not I have been paying taxes 35% and 50% on my overtimes on my paychecks I don’t intend to keep paying again it’s absurd. What they have done. What is the reason is the country green bankrupt?
The one thing I have yet to read or hear anyone talking about (and the video lawyer touched on credit card) is how could they possibly know what you pull out of an ATM with your foreign debit card? Unless they change the software in all Thai ATM's, couldn't one just pull money and pay cash as we mostly already do for all things? This is assuming you are not taxed on the annual required entry amount for retirement visa. (speaking of money over and above the retiree income amount for visa).
Uncertainty dissuades foreigners too. Their plan was to invite in a bunch of wealthy foreigners and tax them after they established themselves. Never get tied down to one place if you're into crypto. 6 months on, 6 months off in Thailand until they state their rules.
Great video JC, I totally agree, as I have been told by another Farang living long term in Thailand, it’s not the retirees they are after it’s the wealthy they are after Which I am not 😁
Who knows what the Thai government will do. I pay taxes on all money I receive as an American. This sounds like double taxation, but Thailandcwill suffer if they go after foreigners. I doubt they will do it.
A big problem in that interpretation, the Thailand progressive tax rates are HIGHER for a given middle ncome than they are in the United States, not lower. They may be higher in the United States for the very wealthy, but not in what is probably your average retirees income. A US middle income is considered a high earner in thailand.
Governments all over the world are always looking at ways to get more money 💵 and taxes always seems the best way to raise money 💵 that's life we all pay no matter were you are 😅 !
I am 76 years old and planning to RETIRE & move to Thailand permanently in 2026. QUESTION: Will my United States Monthly Social Security Payment be taxed?????
There is NO NEW law for taxation. - There is no law to tax expat retirees. This all started with a low-level report on "enforcing" an existing law to tax THAI nationals who hide income abroad. The US/UK did this years ago. -- You tubers picked up and said " What if..."
I lived there for a year if you are okay with a lot of people wanting something from you(not all but enough people), poor internet, and constant blackouts even in the cities. Poor food quality in many areas, expensive food, bad transportation. I mean there are definitely many positive things but they are not really progressing out of these negative issues and no signs that they will ever get better. The overall quality of living and accommodations in Thailand is better by a mile.
i Think people will find some were else to retire .Has Thailand Gov though about that .people with low incomes and pensions mover to cheeper countries for the better life style .
If I live in Thailand and I withdraw every month with my credit card around 30.000 thb (UK bank), should I pay taxes for this money? I am a tax resident because living here more than 183 days and have a tax id as well. (of course I mean in 2024). What happens with the 400.000 we need to have in the bank for the marry visa? Is it taxable? Thanks in
I assume you earn money as a UA-camr. How should that be affected do you think? It is earnings made in Thailand so surely it is fair that tax should be paid to Thailand or perhaps you have a different opinion?
Here is an issue that people arent talking about. One would still have to pay taxes on the social security/income from USA to Thailand, and then you would apply in the USA to get the dollars back from the USA that you paid taxes on in Thailand. This is how it works with no double taxation, i.e. on has to pay the taxes then you file taxes in your home country and in the taxes you pay in the USA you apply to get the money you paid in Thai taxes you reduce from the USA taxes.
That's probably not true of U.S. Social Security income. According to Article 10 of the tax treaty, your Social Security income and other pension income is taxable only in the U.S. But yes, other U.S. earned income that is taxed by Thailand should be exempt from double taxation in the U.S. by claiming the Foreign Tax Credit on your U.S. income tax return.
@@jasonjames4254 I worked in Indonesia with a dual tax system, what i had to do was pay the taxes on my incomed in Indonesia, and then when i paid my US taxes deduct the Indonesian taxes paid versus my US taxes. Not certain about SS, but haven't heard if it will be included as the Thai taxes and I understand it tax on all global income. Will be following though, thanks for mentioning this.
We all know that everyone is due to pay tax somewhere, nobody can expect to live in a country tax free. The issue is what jurisdiction you are due to pay tax in, as income should not be subject to double taxation just because it is earned in one tax jurisdiction and taxed again just by living in a 2nd jurisdiction. My view which many will disagree with is if you live in Thailand you pay tax on your income in Thailand to contribute to the country you reside in. The main problem is countries want two bites of taxation out of the same cake and this affects the honest person. If i had not paid any income tax for years i would not crow about it, because you have lived off other taxpayers who have provided the infrastructure you have been using. Therefore you should realise the animosity and resentment that the indigenous population might feel towards you, regarding you as a freeloader.
Finally I hear an expat saying we should make some contribution to the country that we have chosen to move/retire to. That is not unreasonable. We all just need to wait for more information on how it will work before making a lot of noise about something that is still far from finalized and being implemented. Given how complex working out how to decide what is taxable, and what isn't, and how to track money transfers and credit card payments etc, it is simply not possible for it to be implemented by 01/01/2024.
For tourists, you don’t pay tax but for ‘residents’ you need to pay according to the new law. They’ll pay for the different between your home country and Thailand. All depends on the Double Tax Agreement. It does effect a lot of foreigners who has never pay tax in Thailand before. It’s unclear to me for what will be taxed and what will not. As for JC And Nat, if they live on his income/pension they will not need to pay tax but if they have an investment income coming in, they’ll need to pay tax but it’s hard to track down. Bottom line the Thai Government’s law is clear as a mud!
Having watched numerous You Tube blogs about this subject I must admit i am really surprised at the amount of International Tax experts who understand Thai tax laws and double taxation agreements who are now living in Thailand. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Thai government only tax on thai bank accounts. I do not see the need for a thai bank when i can just use my mastercard to purchase goods and get a cash advance for buying food
I vacation twice a year anyway. I'm usually gone a month and ahalf at a time. If I double the amount of time I'm out of the country. I'll be gone six months. And I will not be a tax Resident. problem solved! And i'm still spending six months in thailand. :)
Everything there has a Thai price and a Farang price. Basically, if you're white, you're rich, and you should pay. I don't know why you'd think this isn't directed at farangs. Say you wanted to buy yourself a nice 1 bedroom condo for $100,000. If you stay there all year you have to pay $35,000 in tax? I understand the motives, but it seems like a counter-incentive to live there. If you're on Social Security and that's it maybe it doesn't impact you. Some of the properties I've found online are pretty nice and expensive. Clearly not all the expats are poor. Not all Thai's are either, but I'm guessing there aren't an unlimited number of them buying $300,000 pool villas and condos. What do you do about this? Leave for 6+ months? Then everyone else takes a hit because you aren't there eating in restaurants, drinking in bars, barfining girls, or whatever.
If it's not meant to hurt farangs, simple answer, don't apply it to farangs, only Thai people. If they start applying to pensioners, life's difficult enough already, you're going to end up with them gone, kicking their girlfriends out and spending less in bars and cafés. It will bite them on the ass.
Were you taxed on this income at the "source"... i.e. your home country? If not, and you're living full time in Thailand as a resident, and there is obviously an agreement between countries to not double-tax you, then the Thai government looks at this as income and will proceed to tax you. Where is the mystery in all of this? If however you don't spend the bulk of your time in Thailand and don't dump huge amounts of untaxed funds to a Thai bank then you should be good to go. Right? And are not wealthy Thais not subjected to the same rules as foreigners as far as high income taxation is concerned? Talk to a tax attorney or accountant and let's see how this plays out. Thailand is notorious for floating all manner of schemes and back tracking on them.
No taxes with long term residency program ; cost 50,000 bath and proof if investment in Thailand and some income. See the better deal now compare t the retirement visa@@EscapetoThailand
Foreigners with income earned OUTSIDE Thailand and who pay taxes in their home country AND whose home country has a tax agreement with them are not having to pay this tax. Don't spread misinformation. The US, Canada, and Europe have this agreement with Thailand.
They already tax those of us working here as residents. So give us residential status then! Crypto can help here. You don’t have to store or move money in banks. Crypto solves everyone’s problems. Be your own bank then!
My Retirements are military disability and Social Security Disability which are not taxable in the US. Tax me here on it and I’ll go back to my house in Florida.
One more thing, Thailand is really doing this to stop money laundering. Thailand is very smart and they are not going to wrong there economy. People making tax videos leave withmore questions than answers, don't panic
It specifically states on the Dept of Revenue, in Thai, that foreign pensions and savings will NOT be taxed, but ya'll keep making these videos to get the views. Please research first before making these.
I do a yearly tax return to the UK. I receive no state pension and, i am a self funded retiree. I pay very little tax to UK as I am non UK resident so my income is 99% "disregarded income" (legally no income tax due to UK). I am on a yearly extension retirement visa. So, will i have to pay Thai tax?
Also. In UK, our pensions are what we've saved all our lives by paying into the system year after year. It's not an income
If the Thai government goes through with this and wants to charge me taxes on my retirement, I'll just buy myself a plane ticket and go back to America. Then I can start looking for a new place to live. ❤
I wouldn't do that if you don't have to. The un-United States of America is becoming a hell hole full of crazy people, higher taxes, crime, etc.
Lmao someone does not clearly understand the Thai law as always it's these US foreigners who cry out. If you are not wealthy then this does not apply to you 😂😂😂😂 typical people with capital who do not want their money being taxed but want to stay somewhere where the laws benefit them
Don't fly back to America.
Fly straight to Cambodia then Laos for a while. I have a Thai wife but plan on spending time in other Southeast Asia countries.
exactly ,I plan to retire to Thailand but if this tax does happen I will just use it as an opportunity to spend six months of the year exploring Vietnam ,Cambodia,phillipines ,Laos ,Japan etc so not bad for plan b@@anthonylutz118
Nobody knows what is going to happen people just just chill out. I think they are talking about Thais that work outside Thailand that send money back here.
I planned to retire to Thailand, but now have switched to Cambodia. Moved here to Cambodia this year and it is an easy $290/yr retirement visa for 1 yr with nothing else needed as long at you are over 55.
@ShaneLars Hey, I just came back from Cambodia to Thailand where I am retired (from USA) and Cambodia is 30 years behind Thailand in development. Plus: prices were 2 & 3x more for regular things like food and drink. I did not stay long enough to price cost of living. Just an FYI.
@@XplorWme new tax system and retirement visa systems still make Cambodia a better deal. I live in Kampot, and it is much cheaper than in Thailand here, for western goods yes expensive, but day to day is okay.
thailand is 50 years behind the usa@@XplorWme
shhhh@@ShaneLars
Should Thailand tax expats this will have a devastating negative impact on high end housing, real estate markets, private schools, private hospitals and high end businesses as expats will explore and exercise other options. All the hurdles, hoops & loops an expat has to deal with to attain a retirement or marriage visa and to now have tax implications here in the Kingdom is not in the best interests of current or future expat retiree's. This tax issue has probably already changed the plans of many expats gearing up to move and retire into Thailand in 2024.
It's changed my plans. I was going to be doing a year lease starting in January here in Bangkok, now I'm going back home to USA instead after my next visa runs out end of February, then coming back for the last 4 months of 2024. This whole tax law nonsense has thrown a wrench in many peoples plans. Might be looking elsewhere entirely now.
@@OneJame Lived in Thailand past 15 years and I am doing what I thought I would never do … scoping a place back in Canada. I am 58, retired and multi millionaire
Makes no sense to throw good money at bad
Gonna’ play the game and not waste my money in Thailand
Disappointed and frustrated
Before people worry too much, they should check the applicable tax treaty. For example, the tax treaty between Thailand and the United States provides that Social Security and government pension benefits will be taxed in the country of origin, only.
What about company pensions?
@@fedogma8407 When they write the tax treaties, they choose their words carefully. The part of the treaty I’m referring to speaks of “public pensions.”
And rent from an investment property in place of origin. Also exempt
@@marcusaurelius9123 Another question is if a farang is a resident, since they live here over 180 days, would they need to get a tax ID number and show evidence that the money they bring into Thailand does not meet the requirements for taxation? But since they say a Thai tax resident maybe that would exclude me sin I am a farang resident. Hard to say what has changed in the meaning with the translation to English. Time will tell. All I know is that Thailand acts in mysterious ways.
It's the same for French people living in Thailand. There is bilateral tax treaty between both countries that makes double imposition impossible.Some of my fellow countrymen told me that whatever happens we will have to declare the amount of pension money transfered on the thai bank account and this amount will be automatically taxed. Then after showing proof of pension and according to the country we will get a refund. It sounds awfully complicated and I must say I already start to lurk on the Philippines. I already feel like a prisonner on parole with the 90 days report but if on top of that they double tax me I will go somewhere else.🤔 Too much is too much!
I used to watch all of your videos 10 years again. I retired here 9 years ago. Now nothing here surprises me. Long ago I tried to import 2 racing motorcycles and used an import agent. I lost $10,000 plus the 2 motorcycles! Yep, the Amazing Thailand
So I'm currently required by Immigration to bring-in a minimum of B65k per-month, to get my annual retirement-extension, yet the rules are changing after 38-year so that above B20k I'll need to be paying Thai-income-tax ? When I originally saved my earnings or made pension-contributions decades ago, it was all out of taxed money too. Then I'm taxed again, when my family or I spend this money in Thailand, VAT & petrol-tax & excise-duty & airport-tax for example, how many times is fair ? We are old & tired & retired, just want to live quietly now, spending our remaining years & money here, my wife says she doesn't want a pay-cut !
So its not just our country's government that takes our money but someone else's government want our money to. Money equals hard earned time, and time we will never ever get back.
They aren’t just “talking about” changing the tax rules. The order has already been signed and the changes come into effect Jan 1.
Yes, but they have bviously haven’t thought through all the bad implications if their bill. Many times they enact a law and then amend it after thinking it through. They won’t be able to accurately find any income from westerners. There are so many ways around it. I use to just bring in cash through my Charkes scwab account card at an atm. They can’t trace that, even if it’s new profit I’m making in the u.s.
Implementation is now delayed until July 2024. I think the pushback from Thai business is increasing. I'd expect to see revisions in this law or for it to be completely rescinded. The Thai government's constant inconsistencies in the application of laws and policies and their short notice Implementation of new laws affecting expats is why I'd NEVER buy anything of significant value in Thailand. Just never know when it'll be time to leave for good.
@@realpropertymangement7640 Link on July 2024?
It may pay to look at other countries to live in, I wouldn't stay in Thailand if they start making it even harder.
Hello Philippines, good by Thailand
If you are paying taxes in Thailand, then you should be getting something for your taxes?
Yes you get corrupt cops/government and mountains of ineptitude.
@@drdr76You're a little cynical you get that and just about every country
You do get something when you live here,, Roads, Bridges, Reservoirs, Prisons etc
Great info, the best explanation to date. I will likely share this on my channel as I get asked all the time. Keep up the great work. Tom
I think it’s better to just visit for a long time. I’m here now and have come to that conclusion.
JC, a good video and thanks for including the video interview by CMIT. That was helpful since my income is from social security and a non-taxable income source. I will probably move to Thailand under a marriage visa with my Thai wife in a couple of years. For now, we reside in the states for over half a year and a few months in Thailand.
If the ฿67,000 on income method is being remitted into Thailand for retirement is coming from a pension, savings 401(k) or Roth IRA, why should it be taxed at all? The accountant featured hasn't a clue and is guessing. He's talking about credit cards? Please!!! Using his logic they should also tax the 800, 000 baht banked for retirement during the year it’s brought in. Both scenarios are ridiculous as is his analysis. What happens if you incur a hefty medical bill and transfer in 100K to pay the bill? Is that income? How does one prove up we paid tax? Tax returns ? 🤣🤣Clear as mud. Great Vlog JC. Keep us posted .
Nat’s English skills were shining in this video! JC, I’m with you on this. I’ll wait and see what happens before I get all worked up. And I really have enjoyed all of the farming videos you have made. I always got a very positive “Green Acres” vibe every time I watched one. Thanks for all you two do showing us what’s possible.
Welcome to Thailand..Land of Smiles!
its a much to do with nothing. I don't see how this is manageable. I've already ordered my Wise card.
Wise card. Sensible reply to this madness.
If you reside in Thailand you can't use and won't get a wise card.
@@rob-xb3vp where there's a will there's a way. I still hold my EU residency. Just a guest in Thailand on a Non O. I own nothing here and don't work here. All my income is from outside of Thailand.
@@ShoelessNomadThailand There may be a will but not a way. I've tried to get a wise card but the fact is they won't give you one if you reside in Thailand and even if you had one from outside Thailand you couldn't use it in any ATM's in Thailand.
More documents, forms and long lines. Thailand is so stuck in the "Better to be in the way than on the way" building waiting rooms instead of working on becoming efficient.
Like the sign I saw on "Bad Driving in Thailand" channel: "Bad intersection ahead" or the Thai line painter on roads that actually painted the solid white line around a palm frond laying in the roadway rather than simply toss it aside and continue with the straight line.
The tax advisors rubbing their hands ... You don't need a tax advisor. Just bring some funds into Thailand in a year in which you are less than 180 days living there or transfer funds through a person which lives completely outside or less thand 180 days inside.
If it does go through I can see them bringing in convoluted rules and requirements for documents that are almost impossible to obtain. That’s the Thai way.
Late 70s and early 80s I used to have to get a tax clearance . It usually required me to part with a cheap shiny watch👏
If they tax my retirement income, then I won't stay in Thailand for more than 180 days.
I can travel to Malaysia, vietnam, and etc.
is that 180 days a year or you can leave and return another 180 days???
@@tommyofrichmond 180 days a year.
They really never think about implications here. But we've always known that
If you are taxed elsewhere in the other country, then it doesn't apply apparently. Due to the international tax treaty.
This guys team did a presentation to the Pattaya City Expat Club a couple of weeks ago. I think everyone’s fear is that 1st January next year passes and the Thai Revenue department take the 12 months after that to come up with their interpretation of their rules and how the tax treaties are applied. I think taxing the average retiree here is going to fall into the too difficult to deal with category and they will go after the big fish importing overseas earnings into Thailand.
Wow haven't seen you in long time good to see 😊
Just remember your a guest in thailand and you will have to do what they say. And if you're going to be taxed they will let you know at the time and it's pay up or leave.
If they try to take ANY more money from my pension, I will leave. I already have a thieving government in the US, don't need one here.
Social security from America will not be taxed. America has a tax treaty for that.
Godbay Thailand evryone movement out to next country
Thanks JC, Nat, and @Chocolate Man in Thailand 🙏
This isn't manageable for most expats.
Simple, keep your money in your home country & withdraw just like you would as a 2week tourist.
get a charles schwabb acount and use bitcoin.
Cambodia 🇰🇭 here we go
Seems like people need to understand better what the definition of income is. Then understand what savings are in that context and then read this proposed law again.
My Australian disability pension is not taxable in Australia in my situation...so if they tax my pension it will hurt ..my wife wll not leave Thailand so wat do walk away from my family here. Australian pension is only 46.900 baht they will force me to work ilegally ... or just walk away from My wife....this is so wrong...this adds stress to my life that i do not like....then we talk about the changes they want to make to us attaining a visa to live here Thailand is giving itself a bad name .
Thanks for this JC. I don't think they will tax social security, but if they do I will just cut back on spending that same amount in the Thai economy. If I lose, they lose......Sal : )
The US already taxes social security, and I applied for mine in June of 2021. The last letter I got from them in January of 2023 said, "we cannot pay your benefit at this time" no reason given. I will have to visit an office when I return next year. Our government is scum. Politicians in the US have been screwing us since Reagan. They need to have all their pensions and federal benefits taken away, retroactively!
Non issue really. The fact you are a foreigner in Thailand has little to do with the problematic. What matters is that you are a fiscal resident of Thailand (Or elsewhere). If you are a fiscal resident, then you must pay taxes. Has been like this in many countries for years. Some fancy countries have not taxed WW income for many reasons, but this is nothing new and gaps are closing. All governments need money. And they will get it one way or another.
Malaysia, Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam & Laos don’t tax Expats on monies they bring in from overseas. In Countries we’re your a tax resident & pay taxes you get access to the services those taxes pay for same as Nationals but not in Thailand. The Universal Healthcare Scheme is funded from General taxation & National Parks are mostly funded from General taxation but Thailand not saying they going to give tax paying Expats the same access to the UHS etc. No indeed they seem to be happy that we have to pay to use the UCS & not just pay but pay at the higher dual price which is at least 50% more than other ASEAN Nationals pay & we pay 5 times what a Thai pays to enter a National Park.
No problem, easy compromise. Just start paying fees for access to public roads, and parks! I'd happily pay an education tax that went to local roads and schools, that's my community, those are my people. Try to look at it through multiple lenses :)
So if I get a pension from the military, rental income, dividend income, and social security income. They will tax all of that and I get taxed in America as well? Also, if I work here online they will tax my earned income as well? That would be shooting themselves in the foot and detrimental to their future. They could fine us for not paying and then trap us in the country. You try to leave they stop you at the airport and tell you to pay some exorbitant fine or go to a Thai prison for six months to a year.
I'm no expert but this is what I see in the tax treaty. According to Article 20 of the tax treaty, Social Security and pension income is taxed only in the country contracting in the treaty. So there should not be taxation on Social Security, military, other pension income, or annuities. Article 10 covers dividend income. Regarding dividend and interest income, it gets a lot more complicated but is likely taxable in Thailand. Likewise, income earned working online while you are physically present in Thailand will likely be consider either employment or business income and would be taxable in Thailand. However, if your online employment/business income is taxed in Thailand, you may be able to avoid having that same money taxed again on your U.S. tax return by claiming either the Foreign Earned Income Tax Credit or Foreign Earned Income Exclusion on your U.S Tax return. And lastly, regarding charges of income tax evasion in Thailand, they could of course prevent you from leaving the country until you pay up, imprison you, or basically do whatever Thai law allow.
Hi JC and NAT. Thanks
Late 60s first time I was in Thailand. Many US military married Thais many of whom later lived in Thailand on the pension. Late 80s the next time I went there and was there nearly every year for the next 30 or so. Lots of the US pensioners had to move out, their pensions became insufficient - didn't have the health cover etc, etc. About every 5 years there were changes to being able to be in Thailand. The Bangkok Post and the Nation were good to read up until the mid 90s.
One of the reasons for me not to retire there was the changes implied, implemented by the Thai gov' over the 30 odd yrs that I went there.
The Thai Consulate worker at Kota Baru complained that I had not shown respect - I should wear trousers not shorts. He had not walked for 20 mins in the heat, arrived early in the morning and had to wait for the Consulate to open 15 mins later than as stated.
TIT TAT TAT, TIT TAT.
Where's a cheap hotel? Beach!
Today squash day. You squash. Thai drive road roller.
Hospital passageway damaged people laying about - no money.
Phuket town fire in life and death - skeletons chained together.
What happens in other countries if you are an expat?
If you are from any of the 68 countries who have a Dual Tax Agreement. Then you only pay tax on your income at source, so once in your home country.
Philippines & Laos don’t tax Expats on money brought in from overseas. 2 years ago Malaysia announced they where going to do what Thailand has said now only to to do a complete U-Turn before it was implemented & kicking it down the road for at least 5 years. Cambodia tax rules do say for tax residents income from abroad is subject to Cambodia tax but it is not implemented & I doubt they have the mechanisms or want to impose it.
Of what significance to anyone would my opinion be on this question? I am retired, and if I don’t like the cost of living where I am, I’ll consider relocating somewhere else. Governments are always (ALWAYS) trolling for revenue. In some places, they’ll make things attractive for retirees, because they’ve calculated they’ll spend more than it’ll cost them. But that can change. In any case, there’s nothing one can do in a foreign country to influence their public policy.
Maybe not one but perhaps 1million farangs who visit the country each year to scope it for retirement.
It's plain wrong. If Thailand does this I will never retire in Thailand. I have already paid taxes on all the money I have earned in America and it's just plain wrong as a 60 year old women to have to try a pay taxes on money I have already earned and paid taxes on.
He has been wearing the same shirts for 30 years.
How is it if ya have a Brandon based Wilmington Trust Fund?
Instead of a Swiss Bank Account any PO Boxes involved?
Thank you!
You used the words"might" and " could" so why not wait until something is announced by the Thai government and not tax accountents who are speculating? I've watched over a dozen videos beginning over a year ago and still nothing has changed. Please find another topic to record about. Thank you.
This is what happens when the bankers take over the political/law making process. It is no different in the US where every year the government takes more and more from poor and working class people and GIVEs more and more to the rich via tax cuts.
All I'll say is BINGO
Who is going to look through every foreigner's finances to determine how much money is subject to tax and how much isn't? And retirement income is taxed lower in the US than general income in Thailand.
Exactly. Not doable.
I left bangkok just begore covid ... Life was so aggressive and daily living stepping outside ,taxis etc was getting awful and vontinued 90 day reporting after years living there ... Grated ..now they wznt more and more ... Better love elsewhere tax territorial lesshassle and agro ..just go odd holidays if yiu can bear it ...
Seems too complicated probably a lot of experts are going to pack bags and leave Thailand. We were going to move there to retire but at this point not I have been paying taxes 35% and 50% on my overtimes on my paychecks I don’t intend to keep paying again it’s absurd. What they have done. What is the reason is the country green bankrupt?
The one thing I have yet to read or hear anyone talking about (and the video lawyer touched on credit card) is how could they possibly know what you pull out of an ATM with your foreign debit card? Unless they change the software in all Thai ATM's, couldn't one just pull money and pay cash as we mostly already do for all things? This is assuming you are not taxed on the annual required entry amount for retirement visa. (speaking of money over and above the retiree income amount for visa).
Upside..no paper trail. Downside...terrible exchange rate and added fees. May as well pay the tax.
Would this only be money deposited into our Thai bank accounts?
I just ATM cash from my bank in the USA.
Uncertainty dissuades foreigners too.
Their plan was to invite in a bunch of wealthy foreigners and tax them after they established themselves.
Never get tied down to one place if you're into crypto.
6 months on, 6 months off in Thailand until they state their rules.
I've revised my plan to to switch between Philippines and Thailand. 175 days in Thailand, the rest in Philippines.
Great video JC,
I totally agree, as I have been told by another Farang living long term in Thailand, it’s not the retirees they are after it’s the wealthy they are after
Which I am not 😁
It must effect whose income over150k thb per year.I ve been so worried.😢
Just bring in cash, $20k is the limit
Who knows what the Thai government will do. I pay taxes on all money I receive as an American. This sounds like double taxation, but Thailandcwill suffer if they go after foreigners. I doubt they will do it.
Well there goes my retiring to Thailand 😢
Malaysia My 2nd Home - MM2h, Bye bye Thailand!
Thanks JC very helpful
A big problem in that interpretation, the Thailand progressive tax rates are HIGHER for a given middle ncome than they are in the United States, not lower. They may be higher in the United States for the very wealthy, but not in what is probably your average retirees income. A US middle income is considered a high earner in thailand.
Average retirees income is social security and pensions. Not taxable...
Governments all over the world are always looking at ways to get more money 💵 and taxes always seems the best way to raise money 💵 that's life we all pay no matter were you are 😅 !
I am 76 years old and planning to RETIRE & move to Thailand permanently in 2026. QUESTION: Will my United States Monthly Social Security Payment be taxed?????
How high are the taxes?
Well... That takes Thailand off my list...
Same here!
You're looking far too much into it.
Using common sense will enable you to work around it, for the better.
There is NO NEW law for taxation.
- There is no law to tax expat retirees.
This all started with a low-level report on "enforcing" an existing law to tax THAI nationals who hide income abroad. The US/UK did this years ago.
-- You tubers picked up and said " What if..."
The Philippines is looking good.
I spent the month of June there and for me, no way, much worse than Thailand.
I lived there for a year if you are okay with a lot of people wanting something from you(not all but enough people), poor internet, and constant blackouts even in the cities. Poor food quality in many areas, expensive food, bad transportation. I mean there are definitely many positive things but they are not really progressing out of these negative issues and no signs that they will ever get better. The overall quality of living and accommodations in Thailand is better by a mile.
i Think people will find some were else to retire .Has Thailand Gov though about that .people with low incomes and pensions mover to cheeper countries for the better life style .
If I live in Thailand and I withdraw every month with my credit card around 30.000 thb (UK bank), should I pay taxes for this money? I am a tax resident because living here more than 183 days and have a tax id as well. (of course I mean in 2024). What happens with the 400.000 we need to have in the bank for the marry visa? Is it taxable? Thanks in
We'll wait and see how this plays out...
Everything in Thailand should be followed by the word “maybe “.
I assume you earn money as a UA-camr. How should that be affected do you think? It is earnings made in Thailand so surely it is fair that tax should be paid to Thailand or perhaps you have a different opinion?
Yeah…we ain’t worrying about taxes….not in my lifetime….
12 months keep the money in a foreigner bank and then open an account in beautiful smile🇹🇭❤️🙏🏻 i think its the idea to avoid taxes
Creating a huge new tax prep industry to complement the visa prep industry.
They'll need the jobs if pot is recriminalized.
Here is an issue that people arent talking about. One would still have to pay taxes on the social security/income from USA to Thailand, and then you would apply in the USA to get the dollars back from the USA that you paid taxes on in Thailand. This is how it works with no double taxation, i.e. on has to pay the taxes then you file taxes in your home country and in the taxes you pay in the USA you apply to get the money you paid in Thai taxes you reduce from the USA taxes.
That's probably not true of U.S. Social Security income. According to Article 10 of the tax treaty, your Social Security income and other pension income is taxable only in the U.S. But yes, other U.S. earned income that is taxed by Thailand should be exempt from double taxation in the U.S. by claiming the Foreign Tax Credit on your U.S. income tax return.
That't all ex pats need more red tape
@@jasonjames4254 I worked in Indonesia with a dual tax system, what i had to do was pay the taxes on my incomed in Indonesia, and then when i paid my US taxes deduct the Indonesian taxes paid versus my US taxes. Not certain about SS, but haven't heard if it will be included as the Thai taxes and I understand it tax on all global income. Will be following though, thanks for mentioning this.
We all know that everyone is due to pay tax somewhere, nobody can expect to live in a country tax free. The issue is what jurisdiction you are due to pay tax in, as income should not be subject to double taxation just because it is earned in one tax jurisdiction and taxed again just by living in a 2nd jurisdiction. My view which many will disagree with is if you live in Thailand you pay tax on your income in Thailand to contribute to the country you reside in. The main problem is countries want two bites of taxation out of the same cake and this affects the honest person. If i had not paid any income tax for years i would not crow about it, because you have lived off other taxpayers who have provided the infrastructure you have been using. Therefore you should realise the animosity and resentment that the indigenous population might feel towards you, regarding you as a freeloader.
Finally I hear an expat saying we should make some contribution to the country that we have chosen to move/retire to. That is not unreasonable. We all just need to wait for more information on how it will work before making a lot of noise about something that is still far from finalized and being implemented.
Given how complex working out how to decide what is taxable, and what isn't, and how to track money transfers and credit card payments etc, it is simply not possible for it to be implemented by 01/01/2024.
Taxed for bringing money into Thailand??
For tourists, you don’t pay tax but for ‘residents’ you need to pay according to the new law. They’ll pay for the different between your home country and Thailand. All depends on the Double Tax Agreement. It does effect a lot of foreigners who has never pay tax in Thailand before. It’s unclear to me for what will be taxed and what will not. As for JC And Nat, if they live on his income/pension they will not need to pay tax but if they have an investment income coming in, they’ll need to pay tax but it’s hard to track down. Bottom line the Thai Government’s law is clear as a mud!
Having watched numerous You Tube blogs about this subject I must admit i am really surprised at the amount of International Tax experts who understand Thai tax laws and double taxation agreements who are now living in Thailand. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
The advice they give it worth every satang🤣
Thai government only tax on thai bank accounts. I do not see the need for a thai bank when i can just use my mastercard to purchase goods and get a cash advance for buying food
I vacation twice a year anyway. I'm usually gone a month and ahalf at a time. If I double the amount of time I'm out of the country. I'll be gone six months. And I will not be a tax Resident. problem solved! And i'm still spending six months in thailand. :)
Everything there has a Thai price and a Farang price. Basically, if you're white, you're rich, and you should pay. I don't know why you'd think this isn't directed at farangs. Say you wanted to buy yourself a nice 1 bedroom condo for $100,000. If you stay there all year you have to pay $35,000 in tax? I understand the motives, but it seems like a counter-incentive to live there. If you're on Social Security and that's it maybe it doesn't impact you. Some of the properties I've found online are pretty nice and expensive. Clearly not all the expats are poor. Not all Thai's are either, but I'm guessing there aren't an unlimited number of them buying $300,000 pool villas and condos. What do you do about this? Leave for 6+ months? Then everyone else takes a hit because you aren't there eating in restaurants, drinking in bars, barfining girls, or whatever.
If it's not meant to hurt farangs, simple answer, don't apply it to farangs, only Thai people. If they start applying to pensioners, life's difficult enough already, you're going to end up with them gone, kicking their girlfriends out and spending less in bars and cafés. It will bite them on the ass.
Were you taxed on this income at the "source"... i.e. your home country? If not, and you're living full time in Thailand as a resident, and there is obviously an agreement between countries to not double-tax you, then the Thai government looks at this as income and will proceed to tax you. Where is the mystery in all of this? If however you don't spend the bulk of your time in Thailand and don't dump huge amounts of untaxed funds to a Thai bank then you should be good to go. Right? And are not wealthy Thais not subjected to the same rules as foreigners as far as high income taxation is concerned? Talk to a tax attorney or accountant and let's see how this plays out. Thailand is notorious for floating all manner of schemes and back tracking on them.
avoid retire visa and get the long term residency. no taxes due. plus fast track at airport
At what cost? And you'd still be liable for the taxes...
No taxes with long term residency program ; cost 50,000 bath and proof if investment in Thailand and some income. See the better deal now compare t the retirement visa@@EscapetoThailand
Foreigners with income earned OUTSIDE Thailand and who pay taxes in their home country AND whose home country has a tax agreement with them are not having to pay this tax. Don't spread misinformation. The US, Canada, and Europe have this agreement with Thailand.
And Australia.
...BUT - You might have to submit a tax return in Thailand every year ???
The point being most pensions are not taxed so bringing in your money will be taxed
My best guess is that this law is gearing up for expat chinese. Soon u will see a flood incoming and Thailand wants a percentage.
They already tax those of us working here as residents. So give us residential status then! Crypto can help here. You don’t have to store or move money in banks. Crypto solves everyone’s problems. Be your own bank then!
My Retirements are military disability and Social Security Disability which are not taxable in the US. Tax me here on it and I’ll go back to my house in Florida.
boycott that place,they will soon change there thieving ways
They only got less than 1/4th tourist numbers pre covid so far this year . Inflation , ww3 uncertainties , now they want to tax everyone 😂 .
5555 try rxplaining to tong the tax inspector your global tax posotion .. right !!! 😅
One more thing, Thailand is really doing this to stop money laundering. Thailand is very smart and they are not going to wrong there economy. People making tax videos leave withmore questions than answers, don't panic
no taxes for retirees, no taxes for money already taxed in your passeport country
Why would anyone wants to live in a place that doesn’t want you there?
I am fine with every Fine..........
£3000 ltd ...keep below tax threashold a year
It's not 3000? It's 10000 dollars or it's equivilent in your currency
It specifically states on the Dept of Revenue, in Thai, that foreign pensions and savings will NOT be taxed, but ya'll keep making these videos to get the views. Please research first before making these.
Fine I will avoid Thailand with this crap.
I do a yearly tax return to the UK. I receive no state pension and, i am a self funded retiree. I pay very little tax to UK as I am non UK resident so
my income is 99% "disregarded income" (legally no income tax due to UK). I am on a yearly extension retirement visa.
So, will i have to pay Thai tax?
Dint worry it's not going to happen
@@stumpytkd1774
How do you know ?
Everything could happen! me too.😢