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I did the math on how much WotC lost over the ogl. On just UA-cam they lost half a billion dollars for just this year. It doesn't include future years where that loss compounds.
I want to say something about DD and the under-monetized BS. 3.5 Started in 2003 and ending in 2008. 5 years. There were too many books to name in 5 years. (I own 46 books, not including my 3.0 books or any adventures. I am missing a good bit.) 5e came out in 2014 and has now been around for 9 years. (I own every rulebook, setting book, and 4 adventure books. They total 20.) In 4 more years they have put out way fewer rulebooks. What they have put out is bout usually 3 times each, 1 hard copy, 1 D&D beyond copy, and 1 VTT copy. And they claim they are under-monetized? They are over-monetized. Every time I mention this people say they want them to not put out too many books. Well if that were true no one would be buying other 5e content from other people. In 2ed we got books on each race. in 3rd we got books that included several races together. These books added substance to each race. (Personally, I liked having a book for each race.) In 5e we have a few books with the same races in them with updates and a few paragraphs about each race. (How many new players are in 5e that never played an earlier edition? Why are there no books with info that these new players could access to really get into roleplaying?)
Those of us who are old enough to remember how Wizard of the coast ended up buying D&D from the corpse of it's previous owner feel like this is a repeat and a leason unlearned.
Exactly. This old grognard is old enough to remember when WotC bought out TSR, promised us that they wouldn't disband TSR, then disbanded TSR two years later when they came out with 3e
This is pretty much exactly what we expected to happen in the late 90's. They tried it when 4e released, and it didn't work then. They're trying it again now, and it already isn't working for them again.
@@goodbuddy7607 and back when he owned it, it would be well within his rights. The main issue with WotC is their attempt to revoke the active OGL and retroactively apply their new one. Them creating a brand new super restrictive OGL for 6e is perfectly fine. People won't like it, but they have the right to do it.
Jokes on him. Every GM knows that naturally. And if they don't they always figure it out. Just a matter of time~. In fact, my players know anytime I find a rule stupid we're going to throw it out. I tell them straight up so they can make informed decisions for characters they make. Most of my players are GMs themselves. They've become pretty comfortable throwing out rules they think are dumb~.
Shout out to the Professor, great mtg content creator and awesome dude! The MtG community helped us out on the OGL, lending their voices to the fight (and also often reminding us that they've been getting screwed over by WotC long before we have). Check him out here: ua-cam.com/users/tolariancommunity EDIT: 3:36 - I forgot about Owlin! That stealth proficiency really IS good, huh?
Dude, you do realize there is a MASSIVE crossover between D&D and MTG? AS in I don't think I know anyone who is interested in one isn't in the other. At least not in my experience.
you yourself showcased some of the ball dropping that WotC has been doing to DnD, its a case of them pissing on both sides of the fence. please do yourself the favor of not only looking at the people on the top UA-cam results, YT acts on behalf of other companys alot so the list is highly censored. theres some channels out there that has been trying to get as much exposure on MtG, DnD and WotC for a long time, showing every "miss step" and "upsie" they've done only to be shunned and derided by other content creators like Tolarian and so on. i hope this experience somewhat blunts the blind trust in company's going forward.
@@AngelusNielson oh they're out there. i used to be one. i played D&D for about a decade before MtG came out. i remember seeing it at the check out counter of comic book stores and thinking "that just looks like a collectible rip-off of D&D" and never gave it a second look until another 8-9 years later when a friend got me hooked after letting me make a deck out of his extra cards. while there is a lot of thematic interest overlap between the two, they are mechanically much different animals and attract different people for that reason. for instance, a large part of D&D is in the actual role-playing. you don't even need the rules and numbers and dice etc, you can play simply by pretending to be another person and helping to tell a collaborative story. that's what role-playing is at heart (which can be lost on younger generations having grown up knowing the term from its use in video games, which is very different), and a lot of people aren't going to be into that. they might be shy or have social anxiety issues or countless other reasons why the "improv-light" aspect of D&D doesn't appeal to them. while MtG does encourage/require some modicum of social interaction, it is typically a lot less than is present at an average ttrpg table (big Commander games and the like aside), not to mention the difference in going through the motions of playing a game of cards vs. playing a role in a story and all that encompasses (creating backstory, getting a feel for your characters wants/needs/motivations/etc, interacting with a party of companions and all the npcs in an imagined world, etc). Time and effort is another big factor. It is MUCH easier and quicker to find someone to play a game or two of MtG than getting multiple people together for (usually) several hours of play at a time. Also, the nature of the CCG/TCG is going to turn a lot of people off for various reasons (most boil down to money, affordability, and the predatory nature of the business model; but there is also an aspect of optics, meaning some people just see a game like MtG as juvenile and dismiss it as such because most of the CCG/TCG world is marketed towards children/teens...despite the fact that most LGSs or tourney halls will typically be filled with people in their 20s to 40s). anyway, TL;DR: while yes, there is a lot of thematic overlap between the two games, and yes, there are many people who dig both; they are very different and attract/deter people for different reasons. just because someone likes swords-and-sorcery fantasy adventure doesn't mean they will automatically like one or the other. (and fwiw, if we are just going by anecdotal evidence; most of the people i know that play D&D don't play MtG and vice versa, granted i haven't played MtG in 5 years or so).
This is probably my last, best chance to share a minor dig at WotC I came up with on the spot. When I cancelled my D&D Beyond subscription, there was a box that asked me to tell them why I was opting out. It didn't take long for me to write: "You know what you did."
I used to do direct marketing for a charity. I'd send letters (actual physical mail) to people asking for money, and I'd do it over and over again. The most common question/complaint I got from donors was, "Why do you do this so often?" So I told them. I explained that by soliciting them more often I could raise more money, not because they personally would donate more often, but because when any random person wanted to make a donation, chances are mine was the most-recent request they'd seen. That letter, where I explained my methods, made more money than any other I'd ever sent. People don't dislike being asked to pay more. People dislike being lied to about it.
@@SithCats No, they dislike feeling scammed. If more money is asked for more service or even if it's just "inflation", nobody will bat an eye. That's the easiest way to increase the price. If you try to obfuscate, lie or cheat your way to higher prices though, you're in for a bad time.
@@faselfasel2864 don't bat your eye at inflation. It happens by people bowing to the pressures of it increasing wages/prices then doing the other in response. For the most part it keeps everything the same other than the fact that for most businesses wages stagnate and unless you're constantly changing jobs you don't get those inflated wages leaving people behind in this asinine system of constantly changing numbers that has no real meaning other than to remove security from people
I ran a game store that focused on weekend events from 2013-2016 and Paizo was all over us to help keep us doing Society events and we were about as small as a store can get. I might not be a big fan of the rules, but I'd work with Paizo again happily Seriously, we were open from 9-12 every Saturday and ran society events every other week. Paizo still had a community outreach person who worked with us and came to see us in person every so often. They gave us free things to give away at events like promo posters and such. It was awesome. We sold like 1 book a week and that was our only profit but Paizo didn't seem to care
Can confirm. I have spent years creating content that helps dungeon Masters which in turn helps them run games for their players which in turn helps feed Wizards of the Coast more customers. I have never received any communication from Wizards of the Coast. Furthermore a while back when I reached out about getting books in advance so that I could review them on my channel I got radio silence. The only time I ever heard anything from them was when an advertising firm reached out to me on their behalf because they wanted me to do an ad spot for strix Haven. And I turned them down. So yes Wizards of the Coast mostly seems to ignore content creators help their business grow.
Companies like WotC, Lucasfilm, the NHL ignoring content creators and by extension their customers is baffling to me. You guys do so much heavy lifting for them and they could take that information for FREE and they don’t do it. Thor Skywalker has over 150 polls on a plethora of Star Wars topics with response counts that are globally significant (with a geographic bias…) that no one looks at! They could take an adventure you’ve created that’s already popular, offer you a licensing deal and make it official DnD content and sell the crap out of it but they don’t do it. Worse, they go to war with the people who make content supporting their product… looking forward to your pathfinder material…
@thedmlair I’m a fan of your content (And can I order the magazine from the UK)? I’m starting to look around for alternatives but I’m my heart, being 51 and having played since I was 11, in addition to being a published fiction author… I’ll just write my own and continue to DM them.
The thing with "D&D is undermonetized" is that if the company tries to overrmonetize it, all the monetization will go away, because people can just switch to other systems or make their own open system.
"Undermonetized" is just corpo for "thriving". Everything that is thriving is something that could be made _more_ money out of. That whole mentality sounds alien to me. If I had a goose that's laying golden eggs, I'd do my darnedest to keep the goose healthy, not punish it for laying fewer eggs than I'd like.
Yeah, they tried to monetize it in all the wrong ways. The point of a company is to make money; the issue is that the "geniuses" in WotC's C-suite didn't account for two things: 1) there is NOTHING stopping folks from simply making homebrew stuff or switching systems, and 2) they were essentially trying to monetize playing pretend and the human imagination. Definitely NOT the smartest business decision they ever made.
I mean, if they monetized it more by hiring more people and actually providing more products of value I'd like them for it. Instead they did the scummiest thing possible.
As bad as the inciting incidents were, the community being so wholesome and united and looking to cooperate in positive actions has felt pretty good. In every other arena these days, when things look bad it's everyone for themselves and people tearing each other up counterproductively.
Honestly with the negative trajectory they've taken the last few years not just this last year and counter to that the positive one Paizo has taken, as well as MCDM a well loved 3rd party publisher, I feel like I don't care if WoTC succeeds anymore. I have avoided scummy companies video games for years already, I'm willing to do that for 5e as well... Plus, the amount of content and support Paizo puts out... wild.
I mean the entire last year including during ogl stuff a 5e book came out. That said, Paizo puts out Quality & Quantity for cheaper too... It's really a triple win. They put out an entire massive AP series for school setting around the same time as Strixhaven which was just so much better. Also it takes place in fantasy Africa with none of the racist tropes you might expect from WoTC.
I’m okay with WotC/Hasbro burning. There will always be others to fill that void. The nice thing is that when monopolies fall, it really opens up the whole community to the worlds of variety around them, which is healthier for them anyway.
I had a goal to DM my first campaign this year. After the OGl situation made WOTC’s flaws so clear, I ended up spending about $100 on Pathfinder 2E materials, and I’m bringing sone new players (and some 5e veterans) along with me. The fact that EVERY Paizo monster and setting is freely available on Archives of Nethys is really helping me storyboard the campaign chapters.
"They need us. We don't need them." This sums it all up quite profoundly. Thanks to you and the Professor for sharing your constructive advice to a typical corporation who lost its values. They are advices that need to be remembered by all (not only Hasbro).
you dont do ya....mmmk watch as wotc falters badly this year and how things roll as other companies also have simular issues and it steam rolls into a lot a near bankrupt companies and the indies while ya got some pr and using it wont fair any better everyone will gravitate to older stuff thats cheap and wont buy anything new , why should they pricing is key and over p[ricing is a huge issue in all areas atm
You know what books I miss from 2ed? The historical mythology settings! The Celtic Campaign setting was pretty wild! It would be considered a 'low magic' setting compared to the modern game, but it was still amazing and immersive!
They really need to expand the product line. Bring back old settings and produce new ones! A proper low magic set of rules would be wonderful. Something akin to all those smaller paperback Module books that Paizo had for Pathfinder had and sold cheaper would be welcome. For a company that only makes money on their product by selling books, they seem to be really intent on being lazy and sticking to quarterly releases that may not interest more than a small portion of the player base. Putting out more variety could solve some of that and give a steady return on cash from more than just the DMs because typically players only actually need one or two books! Why not give incentive to buy booklets for a cool new class or race option? I know the ones Paizo had often had some fun stuff in them. Maybe even do some reprints of the core books that have been expanded to include all the basic stuff added in the subsequent main line releases and rule adjustments and fixes so we can cut down on the number of hardcover bricks we have to carry and they get to profit by selling the same product a second time.
There is a certain type of executive who, when given 2 options, always chooses the one that will make the most money if it succeeds, even if that option has absolutely no chance of succeeding. That's what happened with Magic30 and the OGL2.0.
Making money is not necessarily the bad thing. it's how you go about it that matters. One of the issues in how we got here is is the fact that golden parachutes are WAY too generous and executives are given ludicrous compensation regardless of their performance or if their customers actually like and use their products. Failure should not be met with generous rewards.
I just left the prerelease for the new MTG set and at my local game store, the tabletop RPG area was full of pathfinder product. The DnD product was relegated to a small corner of the (very large and well stocked) store. The other trading card games had a much more prominent placement on the behind counter shelving. Much of the discussion in the place was anti Wizards of the Coast and OGL. This is effecting my store, the store in the next town and the people I play these games with. I overheard people talking about how this MTG sets release is so close to the next sets release. My favorite quote of the night: (when asked if he was playing in the prerelease during a pre-game commander match) "Nah man, I bought eggs today. I can't keep up with Wizards anymore."
I remember when there was 4 sets a year with maybe a commander set in the summer and on rare occasions you would get something like planechase or the anthologies but now it's over saturated. I literally don't know any cards by name because they don't stick around long enough to make an impact. Sets rotate so fast that my lgs stopped hosting standard events (also because wotc dropped most support for those type of events).
The line about not being able to limit a person's imagination reminds me of the time that was a kid and played "D&D" with a friend. But I had no books, and didn't know how to play it, so it was really just interactive story telling, and I'd just tell the player's that they had to roll whatever number seemed appropriate. Was fun even without rules.
The first RPG I played was one that I and my friends invented by looking at a bunch of random books I found, so we created our own rules. It was awful in terms of system and balance. If spellcasters vs. martial classes in D&D have a problem with the different progressions, my system was exponentially worse, a mage started with barely being able to light a candle, having to beat the enemy with a staff, while the warrior was quite strong, and 5 levels later the mage would go flying defeat armies and the warrior would have to literally run behind just to maybe keep up. It was ridiculously fun.
We used to run mini-games in class by passing notes back and forth with a few friends. There'd be a rough map on a page torn out of a notebook and position of everything would be put with pencils. Couldn't roll dice so we'd cut a few squares of paper, number them 1-6, and would just draw a random one to determine the outcome of a "dice" roll. And then a separate paper bundled with it to write actual messages on on what we're doing/saying. Good ol' times.
I moved to Pathfinder years back after the 4E fiasco. It preserved the tradition of D&D the way I understood it, and Paizo seems to be an exemplary company (especially juxtaposed against WotC). I'd love to see D&D channels like this sprinkling in some Pathfinder material to give them the exposure they deserve.
Pathfinder is kinda shit tho for casual players… that’s the problem. WOTC is terrible but all these nerds sucking paizos dick forget that they only cater to a certain category of hyper math fixated people and not the general population of dnd players
To me, the number one thing that Paizo had going for them is they just keep adding to their product. The fact that there's a Bestiary 6(!!!) in Pathfinder is proof that they gave a lot of attention to maintaining their product over the years while Wizards just seems to be content producing a couple books and then leaving everything up to the DM. They continually expanded player options, while Wizards seems content to focus on the DM end and throwing a couple scraps at players occasionally.
I'm hoping to open a game shop some time this year. I'll obviously carry D&D, but I'm also looking at Evil Hat, Paizo, and other game companies. I'm also going to have tables for people to play games, with the option to reserve tables for private games.
I would like to point out that even through this shit going on with D&D, Critical Role managed to launch their fantasy animation series successfully and receive praises all around (even if some people were angry at what seemed a lukewarm answer to the controversy at best)... this shows the contrast between those that care for their product and their fanbase and those that don't
"Receive praises all around" mmmmmn I think this is disingenuous. I'm enjoying the show and hope it continues to get better, but I have notes. It's not very digestible to people who aren't already familiar to Critical Roll S1, and that goes double for people who don't play TTRPGs. I think it captures a lot of magic, but you shouldn't need context. This is coming from a place of love, because so far it HASN'T been widely received by people outside the Critter community - but it could be.
@@Eshajori that is a valid opinion but I will counterargue they have not used much refference to either TTRPG nor D&D in general and this falls under fantasy category. True, some things are D&D related, but those can be taken also as character quirks. Also I would argue that since this is a Season 2, and this is not an episodic show, but a serialized one, expecting you to have seen season 1 before jumping into season 2 is a reasonable requirement. I have shown this to people who are not D&D players nor watch CR and while it wasnt EVERYONE's cup of tea (mainly due to genre), many did enjoy it without needing aditional context.
@@Eshajori I don't agree, my wife has never watched any of critical role or played any D&D, and she absolutely loves the show has no problem with context. But that's just our anecdotal evidence.
They do not target the same audience. This is why they never made a comment on OGL, not because of NDAs , but because they do not need to get dragged down in a war that does not concern them.
I want to give a heartfelt thank you to you and the other folks you've worked with over the past month. Without people like you, we would not have had a fighting chance. Keep being awesome 👍
Paizo is making power moves during this. People making sure everyone knows there is an archives where you can get all the mechanical information FOR FREE, and then the newest Humble Bundle with over 400 dollars of content for 25 bucks? Paizo is striking while the iron is hot. They are, permanently for many, taking people from D&D and into Pathfinder. Wizards, and Hasbro by extension, need to understand that their competition is much stronger and wiser than they may have appeared to be. A giant gesture of good will may be best for their bottom line profits, because they didnt realize how badly they spent the good will of the community, and how negative the impact would be against how little profits. Speaking from a strictly business angle: your customers are the life blood of the product. If they decide they dont need you anymore, you will realize you need them when its too late.
@@Pyxis10 as guardian has stated, Archieves of Nethys. Officially supported by Paizo. And a handy App, Pathbuilder 2e, makes it easy to make a new character.
As a core DnD player who tried to get into his LGS' Magic the Gathering scene this time last this hits but could only play for a few months before being priced out this hits different. It was so clearly the same problems being repeated in two different contexts but no-one seemed to be talking about it until it was too late.
I'm pretty confident in saying Wotc and hasbro thought they had some kind of monopoly on ttrpg's. Which I think it's safe to say they figured out they don't.
@@socialistrepublicofvietnam1500 they didn't create Piazo. Its worse than that. Piazo was created to publish magazines for WotC. The owner is one of WotC's own founders, Lisa Stevens. And they did, for years, making all kinds of stuff for 3e and publishing it in two different long running magazines under contract with WotC. Then when WotC decided to make 4e and treat all their 3p publishers like competition rather than the symbiotic relationship they had fostered for eight years, they abruptly terminated those contracts with Piazo and put 4e under such a draconian license that people were hesitant to publish homebrew for it for years, let alone put it in a magazine. Piazo didn't make Pathfinder to capitalize on WotC's mistakes. They made it because they had to in order to make content for the magazine at all. WotC fireballed a perfectly good working business relationship with Piazo, and were surprised when they made the classic mistake of not keeping a safe distance from the blast zone. But what wizard player hasn't made that mistake at least once in their career, right? The important thing is to never do it again. And here we are over ten years later, Wizards of the Coast has leveled up... and just caught themselves in the blast zone of their own Meteor Swarm spell. Some people don't learn.
@@formlessone8246 i mean, still the consequences of their own absolutely stupid and mindless mistakes i did not know that, but frankly, i am not surprised
Spot on! I WANTED to buy a copy of the players handbook. I didn't NEED to buy one to play the game. If they stop us from wanting these things, through bad public relations, releasing content that isn't enjoyable, etc. Then they lose the customers, but we still have the game.
Exactly. PAIZO has Everything you need to get started with Pathfinder online for FREE and because of how they brilliantly responded to this fiasco got me to buy more books from them than I've EVER bought from WotC
"You can't afford to be a dick anymore." really hope Chris Cao heard that one. also, DAMN this is the peanut butter-and-chocolate team-up i never knew i needed! i used to regularly watch Prof on TCC but stopped paying attention to all things MtG a few years ago. really cool to see you guys in a video together!
I've said this before to execs and producers: Your company's security is only as strong as the least loyal employee and only as expensive as the least paid employee.
>The OGL was a terrible idea. I think you mean "Trying to revoke the OGL was a terrible idea." Ryan Dancey and the team around 2000 were brilliant for coming up with the OGL. It's the reason we're not all playing some derivative of Vampire the Masquerade.
I don't think that leaked letter actually cost WotC any money in the long run. I think it saved them down the road. If the OGL 1.1 actually went live and people saw it for what it was...all that outrage and kickback would have cement the community against them permanently. Nobody would have kept buying into their ecosystem. As it is, many folks will explore other systems, but will keep WotC in the rotation, and continue making stuff using the Creative Commons SRD, which will lead to some sales for WotC. But if OGL1.1 is the new reality, that does not happen. Everyone moves completely away from anything WotC, and they lose that periphery sales.
Hell, magic was originally made because it was something to do between DnD sessions. The games could easily compliment each other, and I could even see MtG being an in-universe playable game that could boost sales for both games. This is what happens when corporate greed and the need to please investors becomes more important than the dedication and art that goes into making something like DnD.
I hate to say it, but the reason is that RPG's are works of imagination, pure and simple. We don't need official anything to tell any story we want. M:TG however has for decades essentially brainwashed it's players into accepting forced obselesence in order to play anywhere but at home, THEN convinced them it's not worth playing at home!! Wanna play FNM? hope your deck is tournament legal, or you are not playing with the cool kids. Proxies? not in this tournament legal setting which is the only way to play magic. I feel for the people who still play M:TG, yet at the same time, I really don't because people who play card games and build decks around mathematical probability really should know that there is a 100% probability that in 1-2 years, most of what you buy now will be functionally useless. It's forcing someone to be a stamp collector to post mail.
@@sutekh233 well, mtg and D&D are different products. And yeah, you can have your reservation on how mtg is overmonetized. Still, that doesn't address the question. Both are fantasy/geek games probably played at the same LGC, published by the same company, yet their communities are so disconnected...
@@gabrielarantest You want it bluntly from someone who has lived in both communities for over 30 years? People who play ONLY M:TG are elitist (same way poker or blackjack players are) because thier chosen game is competitive by nature and unless you play color magic or any other multiplayer variation of it, that's all they are, single players. Add to that they have been drilled by WOTC for decades to accept crap like block rotation and base sets changing, it fractures the group even further between those who can, and those who cannot afford to keep up and still go out and play, err, "socially". D&D ONLY players are also like this to a degree as well, for them RPG=D&D, to the point of RPG="D&D version I play" for some. This is especially true of people who did not get into RPG's, but into D&D via things like stranger things or critical roll, the same way people "got into comics" when marvel movies got popular, the starting vector is simply not the same. The RPG community "at large" however will accept these D&D "purists" even go to bat for them as they have in this whole OGL/WOTC mess because they are still seen as "fellow roleplayers" Will you see the M:TG players go into bat for the V:Tes players? Both games are CCG's, both were designed by Richard Garfield, and I'll tell you the answer, it's NO. Will they do it for the Yu-gi-oh players? Pokemon? Star wars? Netrunner? HELL NO!! They play other games, and thats "their problem" even though they are all playing CCG's Why would anyone bother to help M:TG players (within thier own subsection of the gaming hobby) when many of them act in this way? If your own "family" doesn't like your attitude, why would the larger "gaming family" like it? It's sad because there are many really good M:TG UA-camrs like the prof here who actually encourage this.... "Open Gaming Community" way of thinking, but they are in a minority. TL:DR?? CARD players play to win, RPG players play for everyone to win. The basic definition of "fun" is wildly different.
I can promise you that, as a teacher who runs a gaming club for my students, that we will be working with Pathfinder for 2023 and not using D&D by name, though I will still run classic adventures from the past that are just adapted.
I started playing D&D shortly before 5e’s release. The first few years of 5e WOTC provided free, exclusive one shots tied to the books stories to LGSs to grow the community. Most newer players started this way, and bought players guides and even DMs guides etc to run. Now instead they’re charging for community created one shots (dmsguild), taking early releases away from LGSs, and trying to squeeze more money from the DMs that regularly bring in more players, forcing many DMs out of open community games.
Thank you for talking about the one point that I've already made over the years (and even posted it on DnD Beyond at the start of the OGL debacle). Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro, and even TSR back in the day, has never owned D&D. Sure, they have the copywrite of the name, a few things from the game, etc., but the game? No, never owned it. We all have been playing D&D and other roleplaying games since grade school (and even a bit before). Ever since we had friends (real or imaginary) and were able to utter the phrase, "let's pretend". D&D, as we know it, is just a codification of "Let's Pretend", a set of guidelines regarding how we're going to resolve disputes and challenges within our pretending. So, yeah, I don't care what WotC does with the game I've played for over 35 years, didn't care what TSR did with it either, because in the end, they never published my game, only a guideline in which my game operated... and then only when I agreed with their guidelines.
I have definitely noticed the D&D section shrinking at my local game store, and many of the books that are there have been there for a while (the same copies).
The thing about ladders is that they have a finite number of rungs, and trying to climb high than the top one safely allows is a great way to have a ladder fall on you just after you hit the ground.
Hasbro learned the wrong lesson from Rule of Acquisition 211"Employees are rungs on the ladder of success. Don't be afraid to step on them". This particular rule, while cynically sounding, has real world merits. Namely. If you don't push a few buttons. You'll never make money. Unfortunately they saw that as an excuse to trample us and ask why we aren't standing up to let them reach that next rung
Suddenly reminded of the Firefly quote, "Cutting the middleman seems like a good idea, but most people are middlemen, and the don't take too kindly to being cut out." Not an exact quote but close enough. :)
I changed the system to Pathfinder 2e with my friends, and we absolutely love it. So we are thankful for WotC to drive us away. I somewhat hope that many of the books written for DnD will be adapted for Pathfinder so the books that people bought won't get lost.
How can the community make clear that TTRPG’s are not entertainment but rather a multifaceted creative outlet? I think what would be the most lucrative approach for WotC would be to produce tools for creators to produce good content at their own tables to tell their own stories.
The whole "increasing profits" every year is a problem with the company I work for. I have said the same, "stores can't keep increasing profits by 12-15% every single year"
To squeeze every last penny from every customer and drag in new customers. There are numerous problems just with that last part, one being that our store is in a small town, with a limited customer base, but they don't want "excuses"
@Aaron Lambert But don't those people need that money to pay rent and utilities among other things? Not everyone has a ton of spare cash right now, and those that do have rampant inflation to worry about. Not to mention that each year, it becomes exponentially more difficult to gain a percentage growth. And even if you could get that kinda growth, what happens after you get 100% market saturation and 100% efficiency? How will you continue to grow when you already have all the money in that area? You can't have infinite growth, the world is finite. Even if you have creative solutions, you will eventually hit a wall. I get the feeling your bosses don't exactly have a good grasp on reality.
@AsumaX8 And the other 10% is bought up and spit out by the 90%. I'd say I feel bad for you and your employees if it wasn't for the fact that it is so widespread.
I appreciate your approach. You don't just attack the company but present information in a way that if they did happen to watch this video, would be able to gain some key insights into how to move forward. Thank you for taking the time with this and for your unique approach. I believe this is a really healthy example for the rest of the community!
I am an investor. I am banking my financial future on the companies and the stock market doing well in aggrogate. The trend of companies cutting corners and treating their employees poorly greatly frustrates me. I would much prefer companies to focus on sustainable long term growth than the next quarterly statement.
Thank ypu for stepping up during this time from just fun little videos about silly things you can do in D&D to full blown journalist/analyst of WotC and Hasbro, getting so many important messages out to the community. Thank you so much for all this hard work.
I only played Magic with a handful of friends and we all played with printed cards. We spent less than 10€ each to get a few random cards + sleeves but we had the exact same fun as other players. Maybe even more so now that I think about it, as we could experiment and change decks whenever we wanted without having to fork over hundreds for booster packs and we didn't care when a card got damaged. Been a while since I played Magic but have several D&D groups and we all play via the free stuff like 5etools or wikidot. As the DM I bought a Players Handbook and a Monster Manual to get started, the rest we needed was freely available. What else I bought for D&D was from independent creators. I know I could have easily found most PDFs for free, but they deserve my money, fuck those billion dollar corporation who only serve themselves to get richer.
Exactly. If they don't fire every single person who contributed to the updated OGL, they're not serious about this supposed about-face. Everybody at the corporate level of both Hasbro and WotC need to be shown the door. They have clearly demonstrated in multiple ways that they not only don't like or respect their customers, but that they also don't understand us. And, honestly, that's so much worse for the company's bottom line.
It's almost like creating a system where the owners of a company are completely separated from the people who run the company forces companies to focus on being profitable over being a business that is able to sustain itself. The more I see corporate greed, the more I want to work in a place that isn't beholden to shareholders.
I'm unsure if I'd really mind if they put out monthly or bi-monthly books, but I'd expect the following: Each book containing a multi-session adventure, with some good setting details to give ideas for DMs to expand and create more, a couple of races and subclasses, a little bestiary expansion with some new creatures and some alternate/optional features for already existing creatures, and some setting-relevant gear, magic items and such. Then at the end of each year, I wouldn't mind a compilation source book that rehashes all the new races, subclasses, monsters and items into a single reference.
Thank you for speaking up for FLGS-es! I'm about to open one myself, and it's refreshing to hear you mention us little guys. Good to know that Paizo will have our backs! However, I really liked what you said about ultimately wanting WOTC to succeed because I very much do as well! I would love to have one room playing D&D, the other playing Pathfinder and everyone playing and growing in their own way. Also, shoutout to The Professor! I started learning MTG in preparation for opening this store, and his videos have been IMMENSELY helpful!
whenever I hear about FLGS it always sounds like they are doing worse and worse. I don't want to be rude and I wish for your success but could you maybe explain, why you think now is the time to open a new store?
@G Knucklez Perfectly reasonable question! For one, I signed my lease and everything before WOTC's big spiral (we're talking mere days before). Secondly, I had a perfect location fall into my lap at a really good price, in an area that's blowing up right now. Thirdly, I was in a situation where I could pay the entire first year, as well as all of the start-up costs, in cash. And finally, we're not just a game store. We're also a record store, music venue, and recording studio, all under one very large roof.
I love Paizo and Pathfinder, but the commentary made in this video isn't great IMHO. I (along with several people I play with) buy my books direct from Paizo with their subscription plan to get a discount on the book and a free PDF that often releases ahead of game store street date. I don't think they're going to save you in the way he says.
An easy way for WOTC to make more money would be to release more and faster in other languages. My groupe plays in German and it's a Nightmare to get some older 5e books, or stuff like spellcards etc. Most of it isn't even available anymore with as a German version. And that's sad, because I would gave them more money, if there would be more stuff translated.
The thing that tripped me out was, I got into D&D around 3.5, and sort of kept up with it throughout the years but when 5E became the standard for Critical Role, I started to pay more attention to the goings on in the hobby space. When WotC would do the big community events like Stream of Annihilation when ToA was coming out and then they did the Stream of Many Eyes right before Waterdeep and Mad Mage came out… those were when I realized how popular and how big the community was. They haven’t done anything like that since Descent into Avernus and it hurts because those events made D&D feel like this big massive thing that I could look forward to watching every year and it’s like they just tossed the community aside.
Remember when even the $10 paperbacks for 3.5 would come with 20 class/race features, a three level adventure, and 101 new spells/magic items? Those were the days.
@@AgtPaper665 Sadly those days led to the bloat that was the downfall of 3.5. I get wanting new classes and features but not every book needs that. When Xanathars came out that was the right time for it. When Tasha’s came out, perfect timing. But only a handful of books in between those releases were really useful. I don’t run modules so I don’t really pick up those books, but apparently they started putting new backgrounds into modules and that just seems like poor design. I’m not wanting to return to the bloat of 3.5, but I’d also like the books I purchase to be worth the money I spend.
As long as people like Mr. Cao is in control of products like D&D at WotC, I simply can't afford to invest in their products. Greed is a self defeating monster.
I've jumped to Pathfinder for TTRPGs and Flesh and Blood for TCGs. Magic and DnD have been enormously influential in my life, but it just twists my stomach to support a company that looks down on me while expecting me to buy subpar products.
Overall, I agree with a lot of these points, I have been sitting around wishing that stuff like the games business would be less selfish. I always believe there should be a compromise between the company and the community but cooperate greed will always get in the way. I have begun to dabble in a lot more of making my own homebrew after this ogl thing, and that's how I'm reacting to the companies' actions.
I consulted for a local comic shop last year and dropped by to chat w the owner a few days ago to catch up. He said w Amazon selling books at basically cost, and the DND push for digital that sales have been pretty dreadful for some time. Luckily for him, comics are his lifeblood.
While I agree with just about everything you said, I think the delivery in how you talked about LGS and the possibility of seeing Pathfinder (or alternate) systems getting prevalence in game stores... well the way you put it felt like you were saying its a bad thing to see a Pathfinder Society event in a LGS. Honestly, the TTRPG community should really embrace diversity in the systems and go out and try and support the various systems if we can. Regardless of what system we're playing, we are a community and I want to see us all support each other playing the games that we love, even if we don't play that system ourselves.
I run a Canadian focused RPG Marketplace, and one of the big focuses is getting a diversity of games into local stores. To their credit a lot of local stores I have been contacting lately have been diversifying what they are carrying.
The way Wizards are acting reminds me a lot of how the music industry acted 20 years ago. They are literally competing with free content; they better step it up, or people are going to stop giving them money for what they can get for free or way cheaper elsewhere.
As of right now I have sworn off buying anything from Wizards in the future. I was learning how to play dnd during December right when all of the OGL stuff blew up. As of right now I am looking into pathfinder and I think I’ve found a group! Now, you mention something in the video that I think we feel the same way, but I would put it a bit differently. You say that you want wizards to succeed with some clarifications. I would just say that I want wizards to become the kind of company that deserves success. They already got the talent in their workers and the intellectual properties. All of their pains are self inflicted by the people at the top.
Good companies are rarely super-profitable, and super-profitable companies are rarely good. I want WotC to succeed too, but our definition of success and theirs are sadly very different.
Lol. They sent you the Fortnite cards because they weren't popular with the Magic community, but they still wanted them to sell to a wider audience. They sent a lot of Pokemon/Yugioh players packs of M30 hoping they'd tell their subs to buy them, and it caused a huge controversy when it came to light, since it was pretty insanely manipulative.
@@kagato23 It is when the product itself has been completely rejected by the community it was intended for, and so now you're hoping to trick people from outside of that community into buying what essentially amounts to a scam.
@@kagato23 it's controversial when their regular creator community is increasingly dismissed and the old relationships that they used to foster are ignored. Getting to be the one to preview a new card is a big deal among MtG creators as it's become clear that it is how they acknowledge the importance of your content in the community. One sign of the strained relationship they have with The Professor despite being considered one of the most respected MtG creators on the platform is that he almost never gets previews, because he's never afraid to criticize WotC's products, decisions, or compare them negatively to other TCGs' on the market. (EG how stupidly reluctant they are to reprint cards and keep prices down the way Pokemon does, or the strong fostering of the community that Flesh and Blood's publisher invests in. I think the only publisher he hasn't negatively compared WotC to is Konami because he isn't knowledgeable about Yu-Gi-Oh, but the one time he brought some Yu-Gi-Oh creators on the channel it was clear he empathizes with their common frustrations with the two companies.) So yeah, if a Magic product is not even allowed to be previewed by Magic content creators, what does that say about the deteriorating relationship between WotC and it's creator community? Or alternatively, how much faith they have in that product? FYI, crossover content for Magic is also controversial among Magic players if it's with non-fantasy IP's. The player base feels like it dilutes the brand.
"you can't afford to be a dick anymore" That's the thing, in the long term there was *never* a time when it was good business to be a dick. But business people who were dicks always projected their behavior onto the entirety of business. The lucky few who were successful in spite of their disrespect for the rest of the world were the loudest voices who *claimed* to know how business works, proliferating the myth that being a bastard was the way to success.
Yeah... The whole OGL situation had me saying that unless they backed down completely I would be boycutting d&d permanently. D&d happily did back down. I'm no longer boycutting them. But that doesn't mean I'm on a buying frenzy either. My feelings for d&d has still soured.
Great video. It's good to see some productive, yet critical, discourse on the monetization of the game after the OGL drama. They obviously need to make money, it's not a non-profit organization. But the manner in which that is done doesn't have to be strictly toxic shareholder management. It could just be a focus on product quality.
As someone who looked at 5e and was already hesitant that a majority of the rules were "ask your GM" from the start, instead of as a fallback, and it seemed like Wizards wanted the players to write the game for them, I was never on WotC's side. I much preferred Paizo and other companies that wrote out everything they could think of first, then put in a clause to say if they forgot something, it's up to the GM. So, the problems and things they've been doing recently just feels like a "I told you this would happen." from me, who has been trying to move people away from 5e for a long time. I feel terrible about it, honestly, since I don't mean to stop people's fun- and 5e had it's uses, especially for new players- but still. I kinda was ready for this, and am not going to start trusting WotC now, after they showed their true colors.
When you have C-level mangers that don't care about the fans or IP, they only care about revenue and profit, this is what you get. Look at Marvel Comics back in the 90s. They were printing millions of comic every month when most indicators were that there were only about 600k fans. Those fans were buying multiple copies of the same book thinking they were an investment (obviously they didn't understand supply vs. demand). The market became flooded, buyers realized their foolishness, stopped buying and Marvel went bankrupt. Like Marvel, WotC needs to expand into new markets and like Marvel, they have amazing IP for movies and streaming shows. BUT unless they have a Kevin Feige they will pull a DC and churn out crappy product because (checks first sentence of this rant) THEY DON'T LIKE/RESPECT/UNDERSTAND THE IP AND THE FANS!!!!!!
The thing is that nothing will change, the people making the decisions don’t understand this hobby, or how it works, they just think that these confusing nobody’s are refusing to give them their money
Buying physical copies at your local game store is the best ethical way to purchase published works from any fantasy universe. Also Larian Studios is hopefully going to be making a fantastic Baldur's Gate III. super excited.
The “stealing content” thing was actually in place during original 1.0a. While trust is understandably low, this is actually a legal protection thing. There was a point where people were suing for companies ripping off their ideas which were admittedly pretty sus on the plaintiffs side. Like, somebody made a indie movie or sent a company a script about a dude seeking revenge for the death of his dog and then sue’s because John Wick is their idea stolen, even though it never got shown past their college and UA-cam with 100 followers and it’s actually pretty likely someone else just came up with the idea of man seeking revenge for a dog on their own. Still gotta pay lawyers to defend that though. up till this point it legitimately has been used to defend against that “whether we took this idea from you or not, we’re allowed to have taken it.” They even talk about it in the original FAQ. It’s still potentially abusable though.
To grow a democracy's income, you need to increase the productivity of the people so that they pay you a larger total while playing proportionally less from their own incomes than a dictatorship.
Van Richten's guide was the last D&D book I bought and it felt like so little effort went into putting it together that I haven't bought a thing since. It appears things have only gotten worse since then.
Dragonlance was okay. But then it had the preorder bullshit. But shorts hit it on the head: they rushed. There was a lot of half baked shit not given time and funding to be more than releasable. Dragonlance proved they didn’t become berift of talent, but it’s a shitshow and the house is on fire. We’ll have to see if enough people who cared actually keep a say.
Thank you for doing an amazing job keeping everyone so informed since the start of the OGL disaster! I was following another 5 content creators at the same time, but found you delivered quantity & quantity information equal to the other 5 combined! (If not better)! You always do amazing work!! THANK YOU!!!
As a Magic player, i think the problem with the insane prices of boosters and such, makes sense for Wizards because people are actually buying their products which is why they are testing the waters with these prices. As long as they have people buying their products, they´re never gonna stop with overprinting cards and making products more expensive and why would they?
Seeing wizards succeed and change would be cool. For me though, damage done. Already purchased enough Pf2e content to hit the ground running and doubt I'll return to purchasing 5e. Not gonna burn my 5e stuff though and will still have fun playing it. There are too many good 3dp content creators for 5e to ignore. Going to just have to let them know I'm also interested in them translating their ideas into other game systems and hope there are enough people like myself to make the extra effort worth it.
thank you for your insights, I found you during the OGL crap. Now I am a follower and have been watching your other videos daily. Good point at the end about this is at its core a "free" game. Sometimes I get caught up in the hype and purchase whatever force fed books that come out, so its a good reminder to never forget the roots of DND, "storytelling with friends"... keep up the great work.
The problems with Wizards and Magic the Gathering run way deeper than the Anniversary 30 product. At least you mentioned them snobbing the LGS's, which is true. However, something you left out is Wizards now focuses mainly on the Commander format as their cash cow and they have snobbed pretty much any fan of any other format aside from draft. They just see the fanbase as cash sources now. I'm boycotting them this year. Going to try and get back into board games, which are a hell of a lot cheaper. If I want to collect cards, I will buy Pokemon this year as a way of giving WotC the middle finger. I don't even play Pokemon.
snub =/= snob One is a verb, the other is an adjective. However, I recommend you just keep your money and not buy _any_ luxury cardboard rectangles. Or you could learn one of the many other TCGs out there... In 2002 there were Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Sailor Moon TCGs. Surely, there are other TCGs that might catch your interest, no need to buy a competitor's product that you have no intention of ever using...
I am getting more and more convinced that the worst that can happen to a company is going public and/or getting investors, most time investors doesn't know about the service/product they just want dividend no matter the cost
I do want to add, my customer experience I have had with WotC was a really good one. I got the D&D PHB for Christmas the year it came out, in about a year the binding started falling apart. The customer service rep asked me for my receipt details, I explained it was a present. They told me to send it out and they will handle all shipping costs, and they will send a replacement. For some reason I couldn't send it out myself, I forget why. Well, they sent a person to come pick up the package but that charged me for shipping. Well, not only did I get a new copy of the PHB, BUT, I also got another $50 book totally free as an apology for the book falling apart and for me having to pay the shipping to send it out. I didn't even ask or care about paying the shipping that much, they just went above & beyond at that point. It was really cool. Now, to be honest I wasn't interested in the book, it was the Out of the Abyss module. I don't like modules. But it was still a cool gesture. I was however able to regift it years later to someone whom was able to appreciate it.
This is the second time they've tried this mess, only they went even harder than when they drove me away during the transition between 3.5 and 4E. If their new online game is good I might play it, but for my tabletop fix I look elsewhere to better products.
I think Hasbro never fully grasped that D&D might be the biggest and well-known of the TTRPGs, but it is not the only one. Except for a fairly brief period in the beginning, it never has been. They not only shot themselves in the foot, they reloaded and shot themselves in the other foot, then reloaded again and shot themselves in the nuts. A bunch of people and businesses that were happily turning out D&D-related product have now become additional competition.
7:06 This is totally true. Over the years I've bought a lot of cards thanks to YT content creators talking about specific interactions or just bringing niche cards to my attention. Same goes for boosters, pre-con decks and DnD supplies.
Paizo has always been a much more community centered company. I worked at a small game store in a small town in Massachusett, the president of the company ran the first pathfinder society session there. Its like a 2 hour drive.
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Thanks for the shout out for the One Dollar One Shot!
I did the math on how much WotC lost over the ogl. On just UA-cam they lost half a billion dollars for just this year. It doesn't include future years where that loss compounds.
Great video, just found you today. I don't play magic outside of my house. I do love the lore and art. Now the GREED, WOW WOW WOW!
I want to say something about DD and the under-monetized BS. 3.5 Started in 2003 and ending in 2008. 5 years. There were too many books to name in 5 years. (I own 46 books, not including my 3.0 books or any adventures. I am missing a good bit.) 5e came out in 2014 and has now been around for 9 years. (I own every rulebook, setting book, and 4 adventure books. They total 20.) In 4 more years they have put out way fewer rulebooks. What they have put out is bout usually 3 times each, 1 hard copy, 1 D&D beyond copy, and 1 VTT copy. And they claim they are under-monetized? They are over-monetized. Every time I mention this people say they want them to not put out too many books. Well if that were true no one would be buying other 5e content from other people. In 2ed we got books on each race. in 3rd we got books that included several races together. These books added substance to each race. (Personally, I liked having a book for each race.) In 5e we have a few books with the same races in them with updates and a few paragraphs about each race. (How many new players are in 5e that never played an earlier edition? Why are there no books with info that these new players could access to really get into roleplaying?)
So, with everything going on, do you plan on expanding on being a Pathfinder 2e/DnD channel instead of DnD solely?
Those of us who are old enough to remember how Wizard of the coast ended up buying D&D from the corpse of it's previous owner feel like this is a repeat and a leason unlearned.
Bingo! WotC managed to outdo Lorraine Williams for scummy actions.
Exactly. This old grognard is old enough to remember when WotC bought out TSR, promised us that they wouldn't disband TSR, then disbanded TSR two years later when they came out with 3e
This is pretty much exactly what we expected to happen in the late 90's. They tried it when 4e released, and it didn't work then. They're trying it again now, and it already isn't working for them again.
@spidalack
No one listens to Zathros, but Zathros is used to it.........
I'm looking forward to a "third world" of D&D, to be honest.
Gary Gygax said it himself: "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules."
He also said he wouldn't have done the OGL.
If that's true, and Gygax wanted to keep it secret, then does that make him a bad person?
@@Alister222222 i wouldn't say it's as simple as bad or good.
@@goodbuddy7607 and back when he owned it, it would be well within his rights. The main issue with WotC is their attempt to revoke the active OGL and retroactively apply their new one.
Them creating a brand new super restrictive OGL for 6e is perfectly fine. People won't like it, but they have the right to do it.
Jokes on him. Every GM knows that naturally. And if they don't they always figure it out. Just a matter of time~. In fact, my players know anytime I find a rule stupid we're going to throw it out. I tell them straight up so they can make informed decisions for characters they make. Most of my players are GMs themselves. They've become pretty comfortable throwing out rules they think are dumb~.
Shout out to the Professor, great mtg content creator and awesome dude! The MtG community helped us out on the OGL, lending their voices to the fight (and also often reminding us that they've been getting screwed over by WotC long before we have).
Check him out here: ua-cam.com/users/tolariancommunity
EDIT: 3:36 - I forgot about Owlin! That stealth proficiency really IS good, huh?
I follow him too. Such a genuine guy. I play mtg way more than I play dnd.
He is a chill dude who really enjoys MtG. Awesome guy,
Dude, you do realize there is a MASSIVE crossover between D&D and MTG? AS in I don't think I know anyone who is interested in one isn't in the other. At least not in my experience.
you yourself showcased some of the ball dropping that WotC has been doing to DnD, its a case of them pissing on both sides of the fence. please do yourself the favor of not only looking at the people on the top UA-cam results, YT acts on behalf of other companys alot so the list is highly censored. theres some channels out there that has been trying to get as much exposure on MtG, DnD and WotC for a long time, showing every "miss step" and "upsie" they've done only to be shunned and derided by other content creators like Tolarian and so on.
i hope this experience somewhat blunts the blind trust in company's going forward.
@@AngelusNielson oh they're out there. i used to be one. i played D&D for about a decade before MtG came out. i remember seeing it at the check out counter of comic book stores and thinking "that just looks like a collectible rip-off of D&D" and never gave it a second look until another 8-9 years later when a friend got me hooked after letting me make a deck out of his extra cards.
while there is a lot of thematic interest overlap between the two, they are mechanically much different animals and attract different people for that reason. for instance, a large part of D&D is in the actual role-playing. you don't even need the rules and numbers and dice etc, you can play simply by pretending to be another person and helping to tell a collaborative story. that's what role-playing is at heart (which can be lost on younger generations having grown up knowing the term from its use in video games, which is very different), and a lot of people aren't going to be into that. they might be shy or have social anxiety issues or countless other reasons why the "improv-light" aspect of D&D doesn't appeal to them. while MtG does encourage/require some modicum of social interaction, it is typically a lot less than is present at an average ttrpg table (big Commander games and the like aside), not to mention the difference in going through the motions of playing a game of cards vs. playing a role in a story and all that encompasses (creating backstory, getting a feel for your characters wants/needs/motivations/etc, interacting with a party of companions and all the npcs in an imagined world, etc).
Time and effort is another big factor. It is MUCH easier and quicker to find someone to play a game or two of MtG than getting multiple people together for (usually) several hours of play at a time.
Also, the nature of the CCG/TCG is going to turn a lot of people off for various reasons (most boil down to money, affordability, and the predatory nature of the business model; but there is also an aspect of optics, meaning some people just see a game like MtG as juvenile and dismiss it as such because most of the CCG/TCG world is marketed towards children/teens...despite the fact that most LGSs or tourney halls will typically be filled with people in their 20s to 40s).
anyway, TL;DR: while yes, there is a lot of thematic overlap between the two games, and yes, there are many people who dig both; they are very different and attract/deter people for different reasons. just because someone likes swords-and-sorcery fantasy adventure doesn't mean they will automatically like one or the other. (and fwiw, if we are just going by anecdotal evidence; most of the people i know that play D&D don't play MtG and vice versa, granted i haven't played MtG in 5 years or so).
This is probably my last, best chance to share a minor dig at WotC I came up with on the spot. When I cancelled my D&D Beyond subscription, there was a box that asked me to tell them why I was opting out. It didn't take long for me to write: "You know what you did."
*Chef's Kiss*
I told them "You can figure it out, a bunch of geniuses in charge." Clunky, I like yours better.
@@JimJamTheAdmin, I like yours, because it clearly directs the blame on who deserves it, instead of everyone in there.
@@thomasfplm I just said "greed". I like Overseer76's answer the best!
Better than my reply, where I was indecisive about whether to use the word "stick" or "shove".
I used to do direct marketing for a charity. I'd send letters (actual physical mail) to people asking for money, and I'd do it over and over again. The most common question/complaint I got from donors was, "Why do you do this so often?"
So I told them. I explained that by soliciting them more often I could raise more money, not because they personally would donate more often, but because when any random person wanted to make a donation, chances are mine was the most-recent request they'd seen.
That letter, where I explained my methods, made more money than any other I'd ever sent. People don't dislike being asked to pay more. People dislike being lied to about it.
Nice thanks!
People absolutely do dislike being asked to pay more, especially if it doesn't come with an increase in value.
@@SithCats No, they dislike feeling scammed. If more money is asked for more service or even if it's just "inflation", nobody will bat an eye. That's the easiest way to increase the price. If you try to obfuscate, lie or cheat your way to higher prices though, you're in for a bad time.
@@faselfasel2864 don't bat your eye at inflation. It happens by people bowing to the pressures of it increasing wages/prices then doing the other in response. For the most part it keeps everything the same other than the fact that for most businesses wages stagnate and unless you're constantly changing jobs you don't get those inflated wages leaving people behind in this asinine system of constantly changing numbers that has no real meaning other than to remove security from people
@@tomraineofmagigor3499 keep going on that line of logic, see where it may take you
I ran a game store that focused on weekend events from 2013-2016 and Paizo was all over us to help keep us doing Society events and we were about as small as a store can get. I might not be a big fan of the rules, but I'd work with Paizo again happily
Seriously, we were open from 9-12 every Saturday and ran society events every other week. Paizo still had a community outreach person who worked with us and came to see us in person every so often. They gave us free things to give away at events like promo posters and such. It was awesome. We sold like 1 book a week and that was our only profit but Paizo didn't seem to care
No clue I needed dnd shorts and the professor in one video but I love it
It sometimes we never thought we needed but do we truely deserve it
The most ambitious crossover of all time
More@!!@@ please
Honestly though, do this more. dnd and mtg need need to couple
Agreed! Always great to see the Prof! 😃
Can confirm. I have spent years creating content that helps dungeon Masters which in turn helps them run games for their players which in turn helps feed Wizards of the Coast more customers. I have never received any communication from Wizards of the Coast. Furthermore a while back when I reached out about getting books in advance so that I could review them on my channel I got radio silence. The only time I ever heard anything from them was when an advertising firm reached out to me on their behalf because they wanted me to do an ad spot for strix Haven. And I turned them down. So yes Wizards of the Coast mostly seems to ignore content creators help their business grow.
Companies like WotC, Lucasfilm, the NHL ignoring content creators and by extension their customers is baffling to me. You guys do so much heavy lifting for them and they could take that information for FREE and they don’t do it. Thor Skywalker has over 150 polls on a plethora of Star Wars topics with response counts that are globally significant (with a geographic bias…) that no one looks at! They could take an adventure you’ve created that’s already popular, offer you a licensing deal and make it official DnD content and sell the crap out of it but they don’t do it. Worse, they go to war with the people who make content supporting their product… looking forward to your pathfinder material…
@thedmlair
I’m a fan of your content (And can I order the magazine from the UK)?
I’m starting to look around for alternatives but I’m my heart, being 51 and having played since I was 11, in addition to being a published fiction author… I’ll just write my own and continue to DM them.
The thing with "D&D is undermonetized" is that if the company tries to overrmonetize it, all the monetization will go away, because people can just switch to other systems or make their own open system.
"Undermonetized" is just corpo for "thriving". Everything that is thriving is something that could be made _more_ money out of. That whole mentality sounds alien to me. If I had a goose that's laying golden eggs, I'd do my darnedest to keep the goose healthy, not punish it for laying fewer eggs than I'd like.
@@TheRawrnstuff Ah, welcome to capitalism heh
@@3nertia Sucks, doesn't it?
Yeah, they tried to monetize it in all the wrong ways. The point of a company is to make money; the issue is that the "geniuses" in WotC's C-suite didn't account for two things: 1) there is NOTHING stopping folks from simply making homebrew stuff or switching systems, and 2) they were essentially trying to monetize playing pretend and the human imagination. Definitely NOT the smartest business decision they ever made.
I mean, if they monetized it more by hiring more people and actually providing more products of value I'd like them for it. Instead they did the scummiest thing possible.
As bad as the inciting incidents were, the community being so wholesome and united and looking to cooperate in positive actions has felt pretty good. In every other arena these days, when things look bad it's everyone for themselves and people tearing each other up counterproductively.
Honestly with the negative trajectory they've taken the last few years not just this last year and counter to that the positive one Paizo has taken, as well as MCDM a well loved 3rd party publisher, I feel like I don't care if WoTC succeeds anymore.
I have avoided scummy companies video games for years already, I'm willing to do that for 5e as well... Plus, the amount of content and support Paizo puts out... wild.
Eh. Development of 5e is basically over. They've been developing OneDnD mostly at this point.
Probably gonna stick with 5e.
The funny thing?5e allways delivered a abysmal low quantity of content compared to 3e and 4e
@@rodrigobueno8652 Normally I'd say quality over quantity, but..... even I've been a bit disappointed in some of the books recently
I mean the entire last year including during ogl stuff a 5e book came out.
That said, Paizo puts out Quality & Quantity for cheaper too... It's really a triple win.
They put out an entire massive AP series for school setting around the same time as Strixhaven which was just so much better. Also it takes place in fantasy Africa with none of the racist tropes you might expect from WoTC.
I’m okay with WotC/Hasbro burning. There will always be others to fill that void. The nice thing is that when monopolies fall, it really opens up the whole community to the worlds of variety around them, which is healthier for them anyway.
I had a goal to DM my first campaign this year. After the OGl situation made WOTC’s flaws so clear, I ended up spending about $100 on Pathfinder 2E materials, and I’m bringing sone new players (and some 5e veterans) along with me. The fact that EVERY Paizo monster and setting is freely available on Archives of Nethys is really helping me storyboard the campaign chapters.
Check d20pfsrd as well! Great for magic items and anything you need for character building.
I wish you well, my friend! You guys are gonna do great!
"They need us. We don't need them."
This sums it all up quite profoundly.
Thanks to you and the Professor for sharing your constructive advice to a typical corporation who lost its values. They are advices that need to be remembered by all (not only Hasbro).
you dont do ya....mmmk watch as wotc falters badly this year and how things roll as other companies also have simular issues and it steam rolls into a lot a near bankrupt companies and the indies while ya got some pr and using it wont fair any better
everyone will gravitate to older stuff thats cheap and wont buy anything new , why should they
pricing is key and over p[ricing is a huge issue in all areas atm
@@chronosschiron r/engrish
You know what books I miss from 2ed? The historical mythology settings! The Celtic Campaign setting was pretty wild! It would be considered a 'low magic' setting compared to the modern game, but it was still amazing and immersive!
If you look long and hard enough, someone has posted on the internet as a pdf. Good Luck.
I have them all, physically and as ripped PDFs.
They really need to expand the product line. Bring back old settings and produce new ones! A proper low magic set of rules would be wonderful. Something akin to all those smaller paperback Module books that Paizo had for Pathfinder had and sold cheaper would be welcome. For a company that only makes money on their product by selling books, they seem to be really intent on being lazy and sticking to quarterly releases that may not interest more than a small portion of the player base. Putting out more variety could solve some of that and give a steady return on cash from more than just the DMs because typically players only actually need one or two books! Why not give incentive to buy booklets for a cool new class or race option? I know the ones Paizo had often had some fun stuff in them. Maybe even do some reprints of the core books that have been expanded to include all the basic stuff added in the subsequent main line releases and rule adjustments and fixes so we can cut down on the number of hardcover bricks we have to carry and they get to profit by selling the same product a second time.
Spell Compendium
Magic Item Compendium
Indexes
i have almost 100 2nd ed books never went for any others
There is a certain type of executive who, when given 2 options, always chooses the one that will make the most money if it succeeds, even if that option has absolutely no chance of succeeding.
That's what happened with Magic30 and the OGL2.0.
Welcome to capitalism ...
@@3nertia no, welcome to idiots. Real free capitalism will see them fall as a result.
@@dirtywhitellama Thanks for letting me know that you don't understand how capitalism works :)
Making money is not necessarily the bad thing. it's how you go about it that matters. One of the issues in how we got here is is the fact that golden parachutes are WAY too generous and executives are given ludicrous compensation regardless of their performance or if their customers actually like and use their products. Failure should not be met with generous rewards.
@@3nertia so you don't think hasbro is a symptom of late-stage capitalism?
I just left the prerelease for the new MTG set and at my local game store, the tabletop RPG area was full of pathfinder product.
The DnD product was relegated to a small corner of the (very large and well stocked) store.
The other trading card games had a much more prominent placement on the behind counter shelving. Much of the discussion in the place was anti Wizards of the Coast and OGL.
This is effecting my store, the store in the next town and the people I play these games with.
I overheard people talking about how this MTG sets release is so close to the next sets release.
My favorite quote of the night: (when asked if he was playing in the prerelease during a pre-game commander match) "Nah man, I bought eggs today. I can't keep up with Wizards anymore."
I remember when there was 4 sets a year with maybe a commander set in the summer and on rare occasions you would get something like planechase or the anthologies but now it's over saturated. I literally don't know any cards by name because they don't stick around long enough to make an impact. Sets rotate so fast that my lgs stopped hosting standard events (also because wotc dropped most support for those type of events).
The line about not being able to limit a person's imagination reminds me of the time that was a kid and played "D&D" with a friend. But I had no books, and didn't know how to play it, so it was really just interactive story telling, and I'd just tell the player's that they had to roll whatever number seemed appropriate. Was fun even without rules.
i used to play on the bus/in the lunch room in middle school in the late '80s. we didn't even use dice, it was strictly collaborative story-telling.
There is a quote out there by Gary Gygax that goes something like "the most dangerous secret we must keep from DMs is that they don't need rules".
The first RPG I played was one that I and my friends invented by looking at a bunch of random books I found, so we created our own rules.
It was awful in terms of system and balance.
If spellcasters vs. martial classes in D&D have a problem with the different progressions, my system was exponentially worse, a mage started with barely being able to light a candle, having to beat the enemy with a staff, while the warrior was quite strong, and 5 levels later the mage would go flying defeat armies and the warrior would have to literally run behind just to maybe keep up.
It was ridiculously fun.
My favorite Role-playing session was walking to and from school. We used Rock-paper-scissors instead of dice.
We used to run mini-games in class by passing notes back and forth with a few friends. There'd be a rough map on a page torn out of a notebook and position of everything would be put with pencils. Couldn't roll dice so we'd cut a few squares of paper, number them 1-6, and would just draw a random one to determine the outcome of a "dice" roll. And then a separate paper bundled with it to write actual messages on on what we're doing/saying. Good ol' times.
I moved to Pathfinder years back after the 4E fiasco. It preserved the tradition of D&D the way I understood it, and Paizo seems to be an exemplary company (especially juxtaposed against WotC). I'd love to see D&D channels like this sprinkling in some Pathfinder material to give them the exposure they deserve.
Pathfinder is kinda shit tho for casual players… that’s the problem. WOTC is terrible but all these nerds sucking paizos dick forget that they only cater to a certain category of hyper math fixated people and not the general population of dnd players
To me, the number one thing that Paizo had going for them is they just keep adding to their product. The fact that there's a Bestiary 6(!!!) in Pathfinder is proof that they gave a lot of attention to maintaining their product over the years while Wizards just seems to be content producing a couple books and then leaving everything up to the DM. They continually expanded player options, while Wizards seems content to focus on the DM end and throwing a couple scraps at players occasionally.
The professor is open, and fair. I like him.
You should go check out his channel. He does a lot of really great mtg content.
Always has been
His reviews of MtG products, like card packs, are always solid and well-informed content for shoppers.
Just dont ask him about politics lmao
Prof is literally my favorite creator.
I'm hoping to open a game shop some time this year. I'll obviously carry D&D, but I'm also looking at Evil Hat, Paizo, and other game companies. I'm also going to have tables for people to play games, with the option to reserve tables for private games.
Good luck. I really hope it goes well.
I would like to point out that even through this shit going on with D&D, Critical Role managed to launch their fantasy animation series successfully and receive praises all around (even if some people were angry at what seemed a lukewarm answer to the controversy at best)... this shows the contrast between those that care for their product and their fanbase and those that don't
"Receive praises all around" mmmmmn I think this is disingenuous. I'm enjoying the show and hope it continues to get better, but I have notes. It's not very digestible to people who aren't already familiar to Critical Roll S1, and that goes double for people who don't play TTRPGs. I think it captures a lot of magic, but you shouldn't need context. This is coming from a place of love, because so far it HASN'T been widely received by people outside the Critter community - but it could be.
@@Eshajori that is a valid opinion but I will counterargue they have not used much refference to either TTRPG nor D&D in general and this falls under fantasy category. True, some things are D&D related, but those can be taken also as character quirks.
Also I would argue that since this is a Season 2, and this is not an episodic show, but a serialized one, expecting you to have seen season 1 before jumping into season 2 is a reasonable requirement.
I have shown this to people who are not D&D players nor watch CR and while it wasnt EVERYONE's cup of tea (mainly due to genre), many did enjoy it without needing aditional context.
@@Eshajori I don't agree, my wife has never watched any of critical role or played any D&D, and she absolutely loves the show has no problem with context. But that's just our anecdotal evidence.
@@Eshajori Would argue it is fairly digestible, two of my friends have never seen the show and have loved it so far
They do not target the same audience. This is why they never made a comment on OGL, not because of NDAs , but because they do not need to get dragged down in a war that does not concern them.
I want to give a heartfelt thank you to you and the other folks you've worked with over the past month. Without people like you, we would not have had a fighting chance. Keep being awesome 👍
Paizo is making power moves during this. People making sure everyone knows there is an archives where you can get all the mechanical information FOR FREE, and then the newest Humble Bundle with over 400 dollars of content for 25 bucks?
Paizo is striking while the iron is hot. They are, permanently for many, taking people from D&D and into Pathfinder. Wizards, and Hasbro by extension, need to understand that their competition is much stronger and wiser than they may have appeared to be. A giant gesture of good will may be best for their bottom line profits, because they didnt realize how badly they spent the good will of the community, and how negative the impact would be against how little profits.
Speaking from a strictly business angle: your customers are the life blood of the product. If they decide they dont need you anymore, you will realize you need them when its too late.
Where is this archive?
@@Pyxis10 search for d20pfsrd or opengamingnetwork
@@Pyxis10 Archives of Nethys, originally a fanmade archive but Paizo decided to let them be official.
@@Pyxis10 as guardian has stated, Archieves of Nethys. Officially supported by Paizo. And a handy App, Pathbuilder 2e, makes it easy to make a new character.
As a core DnD player who tried to get into his LGS' Magic the Gathering scene this time last this hits but could only play for a few months before being priced out this hits different. It was so clearly the same problems being repeated in two different contexts but no-one seemed to be talking about it until it was too late.
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I'm pretty confident in saying Wotc and hasbro thought they had some kind of monopoly on ttrpg's. Which I think it's safe to say they figured out they don't.
Wizards can never ignore the consequences of their previous mistakes (4e and the creation of Paizo)
@@socialistrepublicofvietnam1500 they didn't create Piazo. Its worse than that. Piazo was created to publish magazines for WotC. The owner is one of WotC's own founders, Lisa Stevens. And they did, for years, making all kinds of stuff for 3e and publishing it in two different long running magazines under contract with WotC. Then when WotC decided to make 4e and treat all their 3p publishers like competition rather than the symbiotic relationship they had fostered for eight years, they abruptly terminated those contracts with Piazo and put 4e under such a draconian license that people were hesitant to publish homebrew for it for years, let alone put it in a magazine. Piazo didn't make Pathfinder to capitalize on WotC's mistakes. They made it because they had to in order to make content for the magazine at all. WotC fireballed a perfectly good working business relationship with Piazo, and were surprised when they made the classic mistake of not keeping a safe distance from the blast zone. But what wizard player hasn't made that mistake at least once in their career, right? The important thing is to never do it again.
And here we are over ten years later, Wizards of the Coast has leveled up... and just caught themselves in the blast zone of their own Meteor Swarm spell. Some people don't learn.
@@formlessone8246 i mean, still the consequences of their own absolutely stupid and mindless mistakes
i did not know that, but frankly, i am not surprised
Spot on! I WANTED to buy a copy of the players handbook. I didn't NEED to buy one to play the game. If they stop us from wanting these things, through bad public relations, releasing content that isn't enjoyable, etc. Then they lose the customers, but we still have the game.
Exactly. PAIZO has Everything you need to get started with Pathfinder online for FREE and because of how they brilliantly responded to this fiasco got me to buy more books from them than I've EVER bought from WotC
@Fullmetalnyuu1 yeah! I'd like to learn second edition pathfinder, because of all this.
"You can't afford to be a dick anymore." really hope Chris Cao heard that one.
also, DAMN this is the peanut butter-and-chocolate team-up i never knew i needed! i used to regularly watch Prof on TCC but stopped paying attention to all things MtG a few years ago. really cool to see you guys in a video together!
I wonder if he's related to Cao Cao. It would explain a lot.
More like peanut butter and jam
Ngl, the professor looks like a kind old mentor!
never saw his channel... He looks like a smart guy, definetly gonna watch more of him
I've said this before to execs and producers: Your company's security is only as strong as the least loyal employee and only as expensive as the least paid employee.
I am relatively new to the D&D scene, I started last August, but I love it a lot. My only regret is that I didn’t start 20 years ago.
Hello friend
Welcome, I hope you are having fun.
>The OGL was a terrible idea.
I think you mean "Trying to revoke the OGL was a terrible idea."
Ryan Dancey and the team around 2000 were brilliant for coming up with the OGL. It's the reason we're not all playing some derivative of Vampire the Masquerade.
I never thought I’d see this collab, but I’m pleasantly surprised. Been a fan of the Professor for years now.
I don't think that leaked letter actually cost WotC any money in the long run. I think it saved them down the road. If the OGL 1.1 actually went live and people saw it for what it was...all that outrage and kickback would have cement the community against them permanently. Nobody would have kept buying into their ecosystem. As it is, many folks will explore other systems, but will keep WotC in the rotation, and continue making stuff using the Creative Commons SRD, which will lead to some sales for WotC. But if OGL1.1 is the new reality, that does not happen. Everyone moves completely away from anything WotC, and they lose that periphery sales.
Love the participation of the professor. As someone who loves both magic and D&D I am not sure why D&D and magic community are so disconnected.
Hell, magic was originally made because it was something to do between DnD sessions. The games could easily compliment each other, and I could even see MtG being an in-universe playable game that could boost sales for both games.
This is what happens when corporate greed and the need to please investors becomes more important than the dedication and art that goes into making something like DnD.
I hate to say it, but the reason is that RPG's are works of imagination, pure and simple. We don't need official anything to tell any story we want. M:TG however has for decades essentially brainwashed it's players into accepting forced obselesence in order to play anywhere but at home, THEN convinced them it's not worth playing at home!! Wanna play FNM? hope your deck is tournament legal, or you are not playing with the cool kids. Proxies? not in this tournament legal setting which is the only way to play magic.
I feel for the people who still play M:TG, yet at the same time, I really don't because people who play card games and build decks around mathematical probability really should know that there is a 100% probability that in 1-2 years, most of what you buy now will be functionally useless. It's forcing someone to be a stamp collector to post mail.
@@sutekh233 ^THIS 100%
@@sutekh233 well, mtg and D&D are different products. And yeah, you can have your reservation on how mtg is overmonetized. Still, that doesn't address the question. Both are fantasy/geek games probably played at the same LGC, published by the same company, yet their communities are so disconnected...
@@gabrielarantest You want it bluntly from someone who has lived in both communities for over 30 years? People who play ONLY M:TG are elitist (same way poker or blackjack players are) because thier chosen game is competitive by nature and unless you play color magic or any other multiplayer variation of it, that's all they are, single players. Add to that they have been drilled by WOTC for decades to accept crap like block rotation and base sets changing, it fractures the group even further between those who can, and those who cannot afford to keep up and still go out and play, err, "socially".
D&D ONLY players are also like this to a degree as well, for them RPG=D&D, to the point of RPG="D&D version I play" for some. This is especially true of people who did not get into RPG's, but into D&D via things like stranger things or critical roll, the same way people "got into comics" when marvel movies got popular, the starting vector is simply not the same.
The RPG community "at large" however will accept these D&D "purists" even go to bat for them as they have in this whole OGL/WOTC mess because they are still seen as "fellow roleplayers"
Will you see the M:TG players go into bat for the V:Tes players? Both games are CCG's, both were designed by Richard Garfield, and I'll tell you the answer, it's NO. Will they do it for the Yu-gi-oh players? Pokemon? Star wars? Netrunner? HELL NO!! They play other games, and thats "their problem" even though they are all playing CCG's
Why would anyone bother to help M:TG players (within thier own subsection of the gaming hobby) when many of them act in this way?
If your own "family" doesn't like your attitude, why would the larger "gaming family" like it?
It's sad because there are many really good M:TG UA-camrs like the prof here who actually encourage this.... "Open Gaming Community" way of thinking, but they are in a minority.
TL:DR?? CARD players play to win, RPG players play for everyone to win. The basic definition of "fun" is wildly different.
I can promise you that, as a teacher who runs a gaming club for my students, that we will be working with Pathfinder for 2023 and not using D&D by name, though I will still run classic adventures from the past that are just adapted.
I hope everyone enjoys their Pathfinder local game store nights as well as CoC and other under represented TTRPGs.
I started playing D&D shortly before 5e’s release. The first few years of 5e WOTC provided free, exclusive one shots tied to the books stories to LGSs to grow the community. Most newer players started this way, and bought players guides and even DMs guides etc to run. Now instead they’re charging for community created one shots (dmsguild), taking early releases away from LGSs, and trying to squeeze more money from the DMs that regularly bring in more players, forcing many DMs out of open community games.
Thank you for talking about the one point that I've already made over the years (and even posted it on DnD Beyond at the start of the OGL debacle). Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro, and even TSR back in the day, has never owned D&D. Sure, they have the copywrite of the name, a few things from the game, etc., but the game? No, never owned it. We all have been playing D&D and other roleplaying games since grade school (and even a bit before). Ever since we had friends (real or imaginary) and were able to utter the phrase, "let's pretend". D&D, as we know it, is just a codification of "Let's Pretend", a set of guidelines regarding how we're going to resolve disputes and challenges within our pretending. So, yeah, I don't care what WotC does with the game I've played for over 35 years, didn't care what TSR did with it either, because in the end, they never published my game, only a guideline in which my game operated... and then only when I agreed with their guidelines.
I have definitely noticed the D&D section shrinking at my local game store, and many of the books that are there have been there for a while (the same copies).
The thing about ladders is that they have a finite number of rungs, and trying to climb high than the top one safely allows is a great way to have a ladder fall on you just after you hit the ground.
Something about Icarus and the sun.
Hasbro learned the wrong lesson from Rule of Acquisition 211"Employees are rungs on the ladder of success. Don't be afraid to step on them".
This particular rule, while cynically sounding, has real world merits. Namely. If you don't push a few buttons. You'll never make money. Unfortunately they saw that as an excuse to trample us and ask why we aren't standing up to let them reach that next rung
Suddenly reminded of the Firefly quote, "Cutting the middleman seems like a good idea, but most people are middlemen, and the don't take too kindly to being cut out." Not an exact quote but close enough. :)
I changed the system to Pathfinder 2e with my friends, and we absolutely love it. So we are thankful for WotC to drive us away.
I somewhat hope that many of the books written for DnD will be adapted for Pathfinder so the books that people bought won't get lost.
How can the community make clear that TTRPG’s are not entertainment but rather a multifaceted creative outlet?
I think what would be the most lucrative approach for WotC would be to produce tools for creators to produce good content at their own tables to tell their own stories.
The whole "increasing profits" every year is a problem with the company I work for. I have said the same, "stores can't keep increasing profits by 12-15% every single year"
So where exactly do they expect all this extra money to come from?
To squeeze every last penny from every customer and drag in new customers. There are numerous problems just with that last part, one being that our store is in a small town, with a limited customer base, but they don't want "excuses"
@Aaron Lambert But don't those people need that money to pay rent and utilities among other things? Not everyone has a ton of spare cash right now, and those that do have rampant inflation to worry about.
Not to mention that each year, it becomes exponentially more difficult to gain a percentage growth.
And even if you could get that kinda growth, what happens after you get 100% market saturation and 100% efficiency? How will you continue to grow when you already have all the money in that area?
You can't have infinite growth, the world is finite. Even if you have creative solutions, you will eventually hit a wall.
I get the feeling your bosses don't exactly have a good grasp on reality.
@@bestaround3323 I completely agree. Sadly it the mindset that probably 90% of large corporations in the world have
@AsumaX8 And the other 10% is bought up and spit out by the 90%. I'd say I feel bad for you and your employees if it wasn't for the fact that it is so widespread.
I appreciate your approach. You don't just attack the company but present information in a way that if they did happen to watch this video, would be able to gain some key insights into how to move forward.
Thank you for taking the time with this and for your unique approach. I believe this is a really healthy example for the rest of the community!
I've been a long time fan of prof and I'm so glad to see him on your channel. Prof is one of the coolest guys around
I am an investor. I am banking my financial future on the companies and the stock market doing well in aggrogate. The trend of companies cutting corners and treating their employees poorly greatly frustrates me. I would much prefer companies to focus on sustainable long term growth than the next quarterly statement.
I appreciate the professor very simply explaining how infinite growth is patently psychotic
Thank ypu for stepping up during this time from just fun little videos about silly things you can do in D&D to full blown journalist/analyst of WotC and Hasbro, getting so many important messages out to the community.
Thank you so much for all this hard work.
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Thanks for WotC without them I would never have tried pathfinder. I fully switched
I only played Magic with a handful of friends and we all played with printed cards. We spent less than 10€ each to get a few random cards + sleeves but we had the exact same fun as other players. Maybe even more so now that I think about it, as we could experiment and change decks whenever we wanted without having to fork over hundreds for booster packs and we didn't care when a card got damaged. Been a while since I played Magic but have several D&D groups and we all play via the free stuff like 5etools or wikidot. As the DM I bought a Players Handbook and a Monster Manual to get started, the rest we needed was freely available. What else I bought for D&D was from independent creators. I know I could have easily found most PDFs for free, but they deserve my money, fuck those billion dollar corporation who only serve themselves to get richer.
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WotC will communicate much more gently to save face from now on, but their long-term plans haven't changed.
Exactly. If they don't fire every single person who contributed to the updated OGL, they're not serious about this supposed about-face. Everybody at the corporate level of both Hasbro and WotC need to be shown the door. They have clearly demonstrated in multiple ways that they not only don't like or respect their customers, but that they also don't understand us. And, honestly, that's so much worse for the company's bottom line.
They have. Simply because they do understand the plan is impossible.
But they still think they should have had it.
It's almost like creating a system where the owners of a company are completely separated from the people who run the company forces companies to focus on being profitable over being a business that is able to sustain itself. The more I see corporate greed, the more I want to work in a place that isn't beholden to shareholders.
I'm unsure if I'd really mind if they put out monthly or bi-monthly books, but I'd expect the following: Each book containing a multi-session adventure, with some good setting details to give ideas for DMs to expand and create more, a couple of races and subclasses, a little bestiary expansion with some new creatures and some alternate/optional features for already existing creatures, and some setting-relevant gear, magic items and such. Then at the end of each year, I wouldn't mind a compilation source book that rehashes all the new races, subclasses, monsters and items into a single reference.
Thank you for still keeping us updated, our group is slowly switching to pathfinder and homebrew stuff :D love your videos
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Thank you for speaking up for FLGS-es! I'm about to open one myself, and it's refreshing to hear you mention us little guys. Good to know that Paizo will have our backs! However, I really liked what you said about ultimately wanting WOTC to succeed because I very much do as well! I would love to have one room playing D&D, the other playing Pathfinder and everyone playing and growing in their own way.
Also, shoutout to The Professor! I started learning MTG in preparation for opening this store, and his videos have been IMMENSELY helpful!
whenever I hear about FLGS it always sounds like they are doing worse and worse. I don't want to be rude and I wish for your success but could you maybe explain, why you think now is the time to open a new store?
@G Knucklez Perfectly reasonable question! For one, I signed my lease and everything before WOTC's big spiral (we're talking mere days before). Secondly, I had a perfect location fall into my lap at a really good price, in an area that's blowing up right now. Thirdly, I was in a situation where I could pay the entire first year, as well as all of the start-up costs, in cash. And finally, we're not just a game store. We're also a record store, music venue, and recording studio, all under one very large roof.
I love Paizo and Pathfinder, but the commentary made in this video isn't great IMHO. I (along with several people I play with) buy my books direct from Paizo with their subscription plan to get a discount on the book and a free PDF that often releases ahead of game store street date. I don't think they're going to save you in the way he says.
Pathfinder really is the Ferrari to D&D's Lambroghini. Any time D&D stumbles, Pathfinder is there to point and laugh and call them a "clumsy jerkoff."
An easy way for WOTC to make more money would be to release more and faster in other languages.
My groupe plays in German and it's a Nightmare to get some older 5e books, or stuff like spellcards etc. Most of it isn't even available anymore with as a German version. And that's sad, because I would gave them more money, if there would be more stuff translated.
The thing that tripped me out was, I got into D&D around 3.5, and sort of kept up with it throughout the years but when 5E became the standard for Critical Role, I started to pay more attention to the goings on in the hobby space. When WotC would do the big community events like Stream of Annihilation when ToA was coming out and then they did the Stream of Many Eyes right before Waterdeep and Mad Mage came out… those were when I realized how popular and how big the community was. They haven’t done anything like that since Descent into Avernus and it hurts because those events made D&D feel like this big massive thing that I could look forward to watching every year and it’s like they just tossed the community aside.
Remember when even the $10 paperbacks for 3.5 would come with 20 class/race features, a three level adventure, and 101 new spells/magic items? Those were the days.
@@AgtPaper665 Sadly those days led to the bloat that was the downfall of 3.5. I get wanting new classes and features but not every book needs that. When Xanathars came out that was the right time for it. When Tasha’s came out, perfect timing. But only a handful of books in between those releases were really useful. I don’t run modules so I don’t really pick up those books, but apparently they started putting new backgrounds into modules and that just seems like poor design. I’m not wanting to return to the bloat of 3.5, but I’d also like the books I purchase to be worth the money I spend.
The way this community reacted and united to go against WotC was a miracle. Congrats to all of you!
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As long as people like Mr. Cao is in control of products like D&D at WotC, I simply can't afford to invest in their products. Greed is a self defeating monster.
I've jumped to Pathfinder for TTRPGs and Flesh and Blood for TCGs. Magic and DnD have been enormously influential in my life, but it just twists my stomach to support a company that looks down on me while expecting me to buy subpar products.
Overall, I agree with a lot of these points, I have been sitting around wishing that stuff like the games business would be less selfish. I always believe there should be a compromise between the company and the community but cooperate greed will always get in the way. I have begun to dabble in a lot more of making my own homebrew after this ogl thing, and that's how I'm reacting to the companies' actions.
Hasbro: we need to monetize dnd like video games
Also hasbro: cancels multiple video game projects
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Really? Which ones?
I consulted for a local comic shop last year and dropped by to chat w the owner a few days ago to catch up. He said w Amazon selling books at basically cost, and the DND push for digital that sales have been pretty dreadful for some time. Luckily for him, comics are his lifeblood.
To paraphrase a great half-orc seafarer: "They need us, more than we need them."
While I agree with just about everything you said, I think the delivery in how you talked about LGS and the possibility of seeing Pathfinder (or alternate) systems getting prevalence in game stores... well the way you put it felt like you were saying its a bad thing to see a Pathfinder Society event in a LGS. Honestly, the TTRPG community should really embrace diversity in the systems and go out and try and support the various systems if we can. Regardless of what system we're playing, we are a community and I want to see us all support each other playing the games that we love, even if we don't play that system ourselves.
I run a Canadian focused RPG Marketplace, and one of the big focuses is getting a diversity of games into local stores. To their credit a lot of local stores I have been contacting lately have been diversifying what they are carrying.
The way Wizards are acting reminds me a lot of how the music industry acted 20 years ago. They are literally competing with free content; they better step it up, or people are going to stop giving them money for what they can get for free or way cheaper elsewhere.
As of right now I have sworn off buying anything from Wizards in the future. I was learning how to play dnd during December right when all of the OGL stuff blew up. As of right now I am looking into pathfinder and I think I’ve found a group!
Now, you mention something in the video that I think we feel the same way, but I would put it a bit differently. You say that you want wizards to succeed with some clarifications. I would just say that I want wizards to become the kind of company that deserves success. They already got the talent in their workers and the intellectual properties. All of their pains are self inflicted by the people at the top.
Good companies are rarely super-profitable, and super-profitable companies are rarely good. I want WotC to succeed too, but our definition of success and theirs are sadly very different.
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Lol. They sent you the Fortnite cards because they weren't popular with the Magic community, but they still wanted them to sell to a wider audience. They sent a lot of Pokemon/Yugioh players packs of M30 hoping they'd tell their subs to buy them, and it caused a huge controversy when it came to light, since it was pretty insanely manipulative.
I mean is that really a controversy? Send you free stuff hope you promote it? Seems standard?
@@kagato23 It is when the product itself has been completely rejected by the community it was intended for, and so now you're hoping to trick people from outside of that community into buying what essentially amounts to a scam.
@@kagato23 it's controversial when their regular creator community is increasingly dismissed and the old relationships that they used to foster are ignored. Getting to be the one to preview a new card is a big deal among MtG creators as it's become clear that it is how they acknowledge the importance of your content in the community. One sign of the strained relationship they have with The Professor despite being considered one of the most respected MtG creators on the platform is that he almost never gets previews, because he's never afraid to criticize WotC's products, decisions, or compare them negatively to other TCGs' on the market.
(EG how stupidly reluctant they are to reprint cards and keep prices down the way Pokemon does, or the strong fostering of the community that Flesh and Blood's publisher invests in. I think the only publisher he hasn't negatively compared WotC to is Konami because he isn't knowledgeable about Yu-Gi-Oh, but the one time he brought some Yu-Gi-Oh creators on the channel it was clear he empathizes with their common frustrations with the two companies.)
So yeah, if a Magic product is not even allowed to be previewed by Magic content creators, what does that say about the deteriorating relationship between WotC and it's creator community? Or alternatively, how much faith they have in that product? FYI, crossover content for Magic is also controversial among Magic players if it's with non-fantasy IP's. The player base feels like it dilutes the brand.
@@utkphilobio oh okay, cause the m30 stuff is those cards you can’t use? I don’t play magic but if that’s it o think I get it now?
@@kagato23p much
"you can't afford to be a dick anymore" That's the thing, in the long term there was *never* a time when it was good business to be a dick.
But business people who were dicks always projected their behavior onto the entirety of business. The lucky few who were successful in spite of their disrespect for the rest of the world were the loudest voices who *claimed* to know how business works, proliferating the myth that being a bastard was the way to success.
Absolutely love this video. It's another reason why WOTC will lose the war. We come together everytime there is any adversity
Yeah... The whole OGL situation had me saying that unless they backed down completely I would be boycutting d&d permanently.
D&d happily did back down. I'm no longer boycutting them. But that doesn't mean I'm on a buying frenzy either. My feelings for d&d has still soured.
Don't buy their stuff unless they earn your trust or make something amazing. Better creatives deserve your money and time more.
Great video. It's good to see some productive, yet critical, discourse on the monetization of the game after the OGL drama. They obviously need to make money, it's not a non-profit organization. But the manner in which that is done doesn't have to be strictly toxic shareholder management. It could just be a focus on product quality.
As someone who looked at 5e and was already hesitant that a majority of the rules were "ask your GM" from the start, instead of as a fallback, and it seemed like Wizards wanted the players to write the game for them, I was never on WotC's side. I much preferred Paizo and other companies that wrote out everything they could think of first, then put in a clause to say if they forgot something, it's up to the GM.
So, the problems and things they've been doing recently just feels like a "I told you this would happen." from me, who has been trying to move people away from 5e for a long time. I feel terrible about it, honestly, since I don't mean to stop people's fun- and 5e had it's uses, especially for new players- but still. I kinda was ready for this, and am not going to start trusting WotC now, after they showed their true colors.
When you have C-level mangers that don't care about the fans or IP, they only care about revenue and profit, this is what you get. Look at Marvel Comics back in the 90s. They were printing millions of comic every month when most indicators were that there were only about 600k fans. Those fans were buying multiple copies of the same book thinking they were an investment (obviously they didn't understand supply vs. demand). The market became flooded, buyers realized their foolishness, stopped buying and Marvel went bankrupt.
Like Marvel, WotC needs to expand into new markets and like Marvel, they have amazing IP for movies and streaming shows. BUT unless they have a Kevin Feige they will pull a DC and churn out crappy product because (checks first sentence of this rant) THEY DON'T LIKE/RESPECT/UNDERSTAND THE IP AND THE FANS!!!!!!
The thing is that nothing will change, the people making the decisions don’t understand this hobby, or how it works, they just think that these confusing nobody’s are refusing to give them their money
"I've played World of Warcraft, I understand TTRPGs." ROFL
Buying physical copies at your local game store is the best ethical way to purchase published works from any fantasy universe. Also Larian Studios is hopefully going to be making a fantastic Baldur's Gate III. super excited.
Not buying it. It's related to the forgotten realms which is WOTC's product.
F-that.
@@Pyxis10 I pre got it early access a while ago, before the big drama stuff was going on. so now i just hope its fun.
The “stealing content” thing was actually in place during original 1.0a. While trust is understandably low, this is actually a legal protection thing. There was a point where people were suing for companies ripping off their ideas which were admittedly pretty sus on the plaintiffs side. Like, somebody made a indie movie or sent a company a script about a dude seeking revenge for the death of his dog and then sue’s because John Wick is their idea stolen, even though it never got shown past their college and UA-cam with 100 followers and it’s actually pretty likely someone else just came up with the idea of man seeking revenge for a dog on their own. Still gotta pay lawyers to defend that though. up till this point it legitimately has been used to defend against that “whether we took this idea from you or not, we’re allowed to have taken it.” They even talk about it in the original FAQ. It’s still potentially abusable though.
To grow a democracy's income, you need to increase the productivity of the people so that they pay you a larger total while playing proportionally less from their own incomes than a dictatorship.
Corporations aren't democracies.
@@Pyxis10 ,
True, they are dictatorships...
Love the footage of The Sentry Box in Calgary at about 9:20. Been buying there for 40 years.
Van Richten's guide was the last D&D book I bought and it felt like so little effort went into putting it together that I haven't bought a thing since. It appears things have only gotten worse since then.
Dragonlance was okay. But then it had the preorder bullshit. But shorts hit it on the head: they rushed. There was a lot of half baked shit not given time and funding to be more than releasable. Dragonlance proved they didn’t become berift of talent, but it’s a shitshow and the house is on fire. We’ll have to see if enough people who cared actually keep a say.
Same, I was excited because the Domains of Dread has always been a favorite setting. And then it was just... average. At best.
Loved seeing this collab, was always wanting the Professor to weigh in on the whole OGL thing especially given the crap going on with Magic as well.
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Thank you for doing an amazing job keeping everyone so informed since the start of the OGL disaster! I was following another 5 content creators at the same time, but found you delivered quantity & quantity information equal to the other 5 combined! (If not better)! You always do amazing work!! THANK YOU!!!
As a Magic player, i think the problem with the insane prices of boosters and such, makes sense for Wizards because people are actually buying their products which is why they are testing the waters with these prices.
As long as they have people buying their products, they´re never gonna stop with overprinting cards and making products more expensive and why would they?
Seeing wizards succeed and change would be cool. For me though, damage done. Already purchased enough Pf2e content to hit the ground running and doubt I'll return to purchasing 5e. Not gonna burn my 5e stuff though and will still have fun playing it. There are too many good 3dp content creators for 5e to ignore. Going to just have to let them know I'm also interested in them translating their ideas into other game systems and hope there are enough people like myself to make the extra effort worth it.
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thank you for your insights, I found you during the OGL crap. Now I am a follower and have been watching your other videos daily. Good point at the end about this is at its core a "free" game. Sometimes I get caught up in the hype and purchase whatever force fed books that come out, so its a good reminder to never forget the roots of DND, "storytelling with friends"... keep up the great work.
The problems with Wizards and Magic the Gathering run way deeper than the Anniversary 30 product. At least you mentioned them snobbing the LGS's, which is true. However, something you left out is Wizards now focuses mainly on the Commander format as their cash cow and they have snobbed pretty much any fan of any other format aside from draft. They just see the fanbase as cash sources now. I'm boycotting them this year. Going to try and get back into board games, which are a hell of a lot cheaper. If I want to collect cards, I will buy Pokemon this year as a way of giving WotC the middle finger. I don't even play Pokemon.
snub =/= snob One is a verb, the other is an adjective.
However, I recommend you just keep your money and not buy _any_ luxury cardboard rectangles. Or you could learn one of the many other TCGs out there... In 2002 there were Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Sailor Moon TCGs. Surely, there are other TCGs that might catch your interest, no need to buy a competitor's product that you have no intention of ever using...
I am getting more and more convinced that the worst that can happen to a company is going public and/or getting investors, most time investors doesn't know about the service/product they just want dividend no matter the cost
How often do l make jokes about chemistry? Periodically.
Dad joke?
I do want to add, my customer experience I have had with WotC was a really good one.
I got the D&D PHB for Christmas the year it came out, in about a year the binding started falling apart. The customer service rep asked me for my receipt details, I explained it was a present. They told me to send it out and they will handle all shipping costs, and they will send a replacement. For some reason I couldn't send it out myself, I forget why. Well, they sent a person to come pick up the package but that charged me for shipping. Well, not only did I get a new copy of the PHB, BUT, I also got another $50 book totally free as an apology for the book falling apart and for me having to pay the shipping to send it out. I didn't even ask or care about paying the shipping that much, they just went above & beyond at that point. It was really cool.
Now, to be honest I wasn't interested in the book, it was the Out of the Abyss module. I don't like modules. But it was still a cool gesture. I was however able to regift it years later to someone whom was able to appreciate it.
Wizards cannot win me back, period.
This is the second time they've tried this mess, only they went even harder than when they drove me away during the transition between 3.5 and 4E.
If their new online game is good I might play it, but for my tabletop fix I look elsewhere to better products.
I think Hasbro never fully grasped that D&D might be the biggest and well-known of the TTRPGs, but it is not the only one. Except for a fairly brief period in the beginning, it never has been.
They not only shot themselves in the foot, they reloaded and shot themselves in the other foot, then reloaded again and shot themselves in the nuts. A bunch of people and businesses that were happily turning out D&D-related product have now become additional competition.
Hasbro and WotC looking for short term gain over long term funds.
The Prof is amazing, back when I was playing loads of Magic he was my go to channel.
7:06 This is totally true. Over the years I've bought a lot of cards thanks to YT content creators talking about specific interactions or just bringing niche cards to my attention. Same goes for boosters, pre-con decks and DnD supplies.
"You can't just double profits indefinitely forever."
This is precisely why capitalism is an outdated and flawed system.
'How Dare You!': Greta Thunberg 'Fairytales of Eternal Economic Growth' at UN Climate Summit
As a 10 year DM i 100% respect your thoughts, and give you my support as you and I have alot of same thought proccess, thank you for being our voice!
Paizo has always been a much more community centered company. I worked at a small game store in a small town in Massachusett, the president of the company ran the first pathfinder society session there. Its like a 2 hour drive.