The wonderful thing is to believe that Brahms wrote 4 symphonies, love them to death, and then discover this incredible orchestration by Schoenberg: one more insanely beautiful symphonic piece! There's never enough Brahms for this world.
You might be interested in ua-cam.com/video/pQZpJuLBsN8/v-deo.html , orchestration of Peter Klatzow's Quintet opus 111. He called it as "Brahms 5th symphony", saying that Brahms had thought of this quintet as a symphony.
I first heard this piece yesterday by SPO in Seoul. Now I just can’t stop listening to this piece. Mad respect to the composer and hr-sinfonieorchester
I saw Eschenbach conduct many times when he was with the Philadelphia Orchestra. I had no problems with his conducting, but I often hated his programming decisions and I was not upset to see him leave. BUT . . . he seems to be a champion of this work, and for that I give him my full thanks. For over 50 years I have listened to almost nothing but classical music, and just when I thought I had heard all the great music there is to love, I became aware of this gem which I find I can totally enjoy in both forms. Again, Vielen Dank, Maestro Eschenbach! That said, just yesterday I heard a version conducted by Esa-Pekka Salonen and was astonished at how different it is from Eschenbach's. I will have to hear it a lot more than once to decide between the two performances, but I look forward to that.
Why decide between them? Why not accept them both? Brahms himself once said after hearing his 3rd played by an Italian orchestra, " Yes, it works that way, too." Of course he was being a bit of a snot to them, but for myself I've always tried to take his sentiment at face value. I can find room for Honek's Schubert 9 while continuing to like the more traditional tempi of other conductors.
I love this piece. It's Schoenberg's orchestration of Brahms' piano quartet. Saw Michael Tilson Thomas conduct the National Symphony in this piece back in 1984. Still remember this--34 years ago!!
Quite beautiful, and that Rondo is certainly a lot of fun. I had thought it would be a transcription as a piano concerto so I was slightly disappointed. But as a symphony is works very well.
I do prefer the original, for subtlety sake. But I don't believe I've heard this orchestra so wonderfully balanced in quite a while. Maestro Eschenbach, thought looking a bit more like Dr. Evil every day, shows he hasn't lost a single nuance... well done!
Elsa Schiller who gave him his first recording break as a pianist with Deutsche Grammophon in the 1960s had a private nickname for him: Herr Aschbecher which is German for Mr. Ashtray. (She was a heavy smoker.)
Magnifica transcripción orquestal del cuarteto op. 25 de Brahms, la cual la realizó Schonberg en 1937 a petición del director Otto Kemplerer en Los Angeles. ¿Podría decirse que esta transcripción se le puede llamar la Quinta sinfonia de Brahms/Schonberg? Excelente dirección de Eschenbach
Gracias por la interesante información. Acabo de conocer esta transcripción, que me encantó... muchas obras de cámara de Brahms, por su duración, estructura y complejidad podrían ser sinfonías tan maravillosas como las cuatro que compuso. Cuando escucho el quinteto con piano, trato de imaginármelo orquestado, y siento como si fuera una de sus más grandes sinfonías...
I wish this work were played more often. Schönberg thought of it as Brahms' Fifth Symphony and, to him, it was orchestral in scale but I disagree with Schönberg. I don't think Brahms would have considered this work as anything other than a chamber work and Brahms would certainly never have considered orchestrating it. The fact that Schönberg created a masterpiece from Brahms' smaller scale conception (smaller in terms of the forces he chooses to write this music, this glorious music, for) is a massive achievement which should not be understated. Schönberg was a master orchestrator and his orchestration draws from Brahms score essence of Brahms' soul which cannot be fully experienced when hearing the original Piano Quartet. That is what I think, anyway. I wonder if Herr Eschenbach who almost decided to perform my orchestrations of 3 early songs by Alban Berg - with Renée Fleming as solist - would agree? It is funny how one's life path almost touches that of a great musician, isn't it? Well, Herr Eschenbach (I cannot help thinking how close his name is to the name of the protagonist in Thomas Mann's novella, Tod in Venedig (Death in Venice) - Herr von Aschenbach.- decided not to perform my orchestrations and I was never told why as this was an eve of concert decision so it is hard to believe that, at that late stage, he thought the orchestrations unworthy of Berg and therefore unworthy of performance but that is how things often go when you deal with conductors and orchestras. I have strayed from my theme a little here but I feel I have said all I wanted to say. Happy listening!
Christoph Eschenbach is the best Brahms conductor, even if Brahms' music is not so well altered by Schoenberg in the sense that Brahms intended. Schöberg should have looked more closely at Brahms' Third and Fourth Symphonies and Double Concerto for his orchestration of this Brahms quartet, which sounds like a fanfare in his orchestration.
Sounding exactly like Brahms was not the point at all. Otherwise, Schoenberg would never have employed the extended percussion section including xylophone, nor triple woodwinds. It is a composition by Brahms orchestrated by Schoenberg, and liking it or not is up to personal taste.
I am surprised that this is not played more often. OK, "Schoenberg " scares plenty of would-be concert-gpers, so maybe that is the problem. There's nothing twelve-tone about it. The orchestration is Schoenberg's, and it sounds much like how Brahms would orchestrate it. Schoenberg in fact admired Brahms. (OK, Brahms writes some of the most introspective music ever written, so I wouldn't introduce Brahms as the first classical composer to someone who has little familiarity with classical music).
on the contrary, Brahms' Hungarian Dances are ideal to introduce someone coming from pop music to classical music. They are short, lively, refreshing and fun to listen to. Perfect for someone who would be overwhelmed by 50 to 90 min of orchestrated symphonies
Stephen Gould Brahms seems like a competent orchestrator but this piece is excitingly colorful. Like the Schubert Wanderer, I can't imagine Schubert could have orchestrated it quite as well as Liszt did.
@@andrewpfeiffer6218 much as I like Liszt's "Wanderer" I find it just crosses the line into vulgarity. This doesn't. (For full-on vulgarity, I recommend Glazunov's arrangement of Chopin's Military Polonaise...)
Now many won't wonder why Dahlhaus called Brahms's symphonies as symphonied chamber music... Not that I really agree on that. On the other note, this is a wonderfully performed version.
The playing is great but the photography is sometimes disappointing as it fails to put the focus on the right instruments sometimes. For example, cant believe no sight of the flute between 35-36!
Eschenbach was brilliant 20 years ago. Now, it appears, he’s on remote, I need the money, control. Retirement is not giving up. Retirement is earned and respectable.
Eschenbach most probably was brillant some time ago, but, you would agree: HE IS MUCH WISER NOW ! Do you not feel that your comment about money, retirement about such a gifted MUSICIAN is unrespektful ???
Warum steht da was in der Headline mit „Klavier“, wenn davon nichts zu sehen ist? Hat mir auch nicht so recht gefallen, irgendwie ohne Struktur und roten Faden.
Es steht ja "Klavierquartett für Orchester". Aber Sie haben Recht, man hätte noch dazu schreiben können, dass eine von Arnold Schönberg erstellte Orchester-Version des Klavierquartetts Nr.1 von Johannes Brahms ist. Wenn Ihnen das nicht gefallen hat, probieren Sie es doch mal mit dem Original. Ein wunderbares Stück!
Schoenberg starts this one so clearly in Brahms' own orchestral style, and then goes overboard with the brass writing. I wish he would have restrained from using the Xylophone in the finale and kept strictly to Brahms own orchestra. So no percussion except gran cassa, cymbals and triangle allowed. Because at times this is so close to the style that it could pass as Brahms' own orchestration and then the e-flat clarinets show up and you think.... erm---- no! The interpretation is top notch. I have Eschenbach's BMG recording, and this here is better.
Quotenwagnerianer Schönberg was quite clear about his aim of orchestrating Brahms' Piano Quartet using the instruments available at the time - 1936, if I remember correctly. Brahms never used bass clarinet or cor anglais in his orchestrations, for example. Brahms also disliked valve horns preferring to write for the warmer-toned but less powerful natural horn which his father had taught as a boy growing up in Hamburg. Schönberg also uesd a large percussion section which, to Brahms, was unheard of.
@@dannybarrs "Brahms never used bass clarinet or cor anglais in his orchestrations, for example." Because he didn't want to. These were available to Brahms.
Beautiful performance! But I prefer the original piano quartet to this orchestrated version. The latter is too much sophisticated and short of idyllic taste of the former.
There is no "original version" of this work; there is only the fulfilled work, which Schoenberg accomplished. (Would the Hungarian Dances be listened to if they had not been orchestrated?) The Romantics, Early and Late, were not especially comfortable in the chamber music format. Beethoven and Schubert could well look back to Mozart and Haydn, but Brahms (even though he pined for the past) could only be brought into the future, by Schoenberg.
Are you out of your mind? The original Piano Quartet is a masterpiece and often performed! And the Romantics were never comfortable with Chamber Music? That's an equally idiotic remark. Have you never heard a String Quartet by Schubert or a Piano Trio by Schumann or Mendelssohn? And furthermore, have you never heard the Hungarian Dances with Violin+Piano or on two pianos???
Embarrassing that a conductor who takes such obvious pride in his ability to manipulate detail fails to get the simple three against two at around the 26-minute mark anything CLOSE to correct. The guy wrecked the National Symphony after he was fired in Philadelphia. What a ride he's had. Meanwhile an excellent conductor like the American Dennis Russell Davies can't get a toe-hold in America.
40:13 IS THE FREACKIN' BEST MOMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The wonderful thing is to believe that Brahms wrote 4 symphonies, love them to death, and then discover this incredible orchestration by Schoenberg: one more insanely beautiful symphonic piece! There's never enough Brahms for this world.
Agree completely!
You might be interested in ua-cam.com/video/pQZpJuLBsN8/v-deo.html , orchestration of Peter Klatzow's Quintet opus 111. He called it as "Brahms 5th symphony", saying that Brahms had thought of this quintet as a symphony.
@@jdawi thanks!
This orchestration is exactly how I’d like a symphony to sound like.
What fun! How thrilling! Never thought I would hear a xylophone playing Brahms!
Brahms´ Fünfte Symphonie!
more like 0th
Sounds nothing like a Brahms symphony
@@luisbreva6122 true, much later romantic
Yes. Schönberg dixit!
Eschenbach is a conductor that can make it happen.
Did anybody notice on 35:19 the 1st Horn, on the left, dancing?
a true mood.
:-)) typisches rumalbern eines orchestermusikers während der arbeitszeit :-) nice
Good catch!!!
Yes I did! Interesting, you won't see anyone dancing while playing Schoenberg's nastier works.
I first heard this piece yesterday by SPO in Seoul. Now I just can’t stop listening to this piece. Mad respect to the composer and hr-sinfonieorchester
I like both versions. Hope to play it one day!
Superba orchestrazione.
Brilliant music!
Brilliant orchestra!!👍
I saw Eschenbach conduct many times when he was with the Philadelphia Orchestra. I had no problems with his conducting, but I often hated his programming decisions and I was not upset to see him leave. BUT . . . he seems to be a champion of this work, and for that I give him my full thanks. For over 50 years I have listened to almost nothing but classical music, and just when I thought I had heard all the great music there is to love, I became aware of this gem which I find I can totally enjoy in both forms. Again, Vielen Dank, Maestro Eschenbach!
That said, just yesterday I heard a version conducted by Esa-Pekka Salonen and was astonished at how different it is from Eschenbach's. I will have to hear it a lot more than once to decide between the two performances, but I look forward to that.
Why decide between them? Why not accept them both? Brahms himself once said after hearing his 3rd played by an Italian orchestra, " Yes, it works that way, too." Of course he was being a bit of a snot to them, but for myself I've always tried to take his sentiment at face value. I can find room for Honek's Schubert 9 while continuing to like the more traditional tempi of other conductors.
the 4th movement is the best part!
I love this piece. It's Schoenberg's orchestration of Brahms' piano quartet.
Saw Michael Tilson Thomas conduct the National Symphony in this piece back in 1984. Still remember this--34 years ago!!
Sublime, merci.💝
Quite beautiful, and that Rondo is certainly a lot of fun. I had thought it would be a transcription as a piano concerto so I was slightly disappointed. But as a symphony is works very well.
I never understood Schoenberg.'s strange tonal music, but I love his work on this. Thank you all concerned here.
His Transfigured Night and Gurrelieder are not strange but very beautiful with a hint of Wagner
Brahms´ Fifth Symphony!
Bravo bassoons!
I do prefer the original, for subtlety sake. But I don't believe I've heard this orchestra so wonderfully balanced in quite a while. Maestro Eschenbach, thought looking a bit more like Dr. Evil every day, shows he hasn't lost a single nuance... well done!
Dr. Evil? Give the man some credit he deserves to be compared to Blofeld. ;)
Elsa Schiller who gave him his first recording break as a pianist with Deutsche Grammophon in the 1960s had a private nickname for him: Herr Aschbecher which is German for Mr. Ashtray. (She was a heavy smoker.)
Bravo!!! woodwind **
I. Allegro ∙ 0:05
II. Intermezzo. Allegro ma non troppo ∙ 14:51
III. Andante con moto ∙ 23:25
IV. Rondo alla zingarese. Presto ∙ 34:14
Bless you
The 4th part is my all time favourite!
40:13 one of the best moments
Almost makes us forgive Schoenberg for losing his soul. Or was it his mind?
All this is implicit in the original version, but it's made startlingly explicit in this splendid orchestration - or, more precisely, dramatization.
Took me a long time to realize there is no Klavier
Большая Благодарность Франкфуртскому оркестру!
Дважды благодарю немецких налогоплательщиков - за концерт без рекламы; и за помощь Украине!
Never heard this version before and am enjoying, which is interesting considering that I find the orchestrated version of Verklarte Nacht overblown
-- Splendide. --
Magnifica transcripción orquestal del cuarteto op. 25 de Brahms, la cual la realizó Schonberg en 1937 a petición del director Otto Kemplerer en Los Angeles.
¿Podría decirse que esta transcripción se le puede llamar la Quinta sinfonia de Brahms/Schonberg?
Excelente dirección de Eschenbach
Gracias por la interesante información. Acabo de conocer esta transcripción, que me encantó... muchas obras de cámara de Brahms, por su duración, estructura y complejidad podrían ser sinfonías tan maravillosas como las cuatro que compuso. Cuando escucho el quinteto con piano, trato de imaginármelo orquestado, y siento como si fuera una de sus más grandes sinfonías...
잘 듣고 갑니다.
Great !!
I wish this work were played more often. Schönberg thought of it as Brahms' Fifth Symphony and, to him, it was orchestral in scale but I disagree with Schönberg. I don't think Brahms would have considered this work as anything other than a chamber work and Brahms would certainly never have considered orchestrating it. The fact that Schönberg created a masterpiece from Brahms' smaller scale conception (smaller in terms of the forces he chooses to write this music, this glorious music, for) is a massive achievement which should not be understated. Schönberg was a master orchestrator and his orchestration draws from Brahms score essence of Brahms' soul which cannot be fully experienced when hearing the original Piano Quartet. That is what I think, anyway. I wonder if Herr Eschenbach who almost decided to perform my orchestrations of 3 early songs by Alban Berg - with Renée Fleming as solist - would agree? It is funny how one's life path almost touches that of a great musician, isn't it? Well, Herr Eschenbach (I cannot help thinking how close his name is to the name of the protagonist in Thomas Mann's novella, Tod in Venedig (Death in Venice) - Herr von Aschenbach.- decided not to perform my orchestrations and I was never told why as this was an eve of concert decision so it is hard to believe that, at that late stage, he thought the orchestrations unworthy of Berg and therefore unworthy of performance but that is how things often go when you deal with conductors and orchestras.
I have strayed from my theme a little here but I feel I have said all I wanted to say. Happy listening!
Прекрасно:!)))
que maravilla esta obra y en esta formación...fantástica transcripción de Schonberg
참 좋습니다.
좋아요
que hermoso ultimo movimiento
Christoph Eschenbach is the best Brahms conductor, even if Brahms' music is not so well altered by Schoenberg in the sense that Brahms intended. Schöberg should have looked more closely at Brahms' Third and Fourth Symphonies and Double Concerto for his orchestration of this Brahms quartet, which sounds like a fanfare in his orchestration.
Sounding exactly like Brahms was not the point at all. Otherwise, Schoenberg would never have employed the extended percussion section including xylophone, nor triple woodwinds. It is a composition by Brahms orchestrated by Schoenberg, and liking it or not is up to personal taste.
I am surprised that this is not played more often. OK, "Schoenberg " scares plenty of would-be concert-gpers, so maybe that is the problem. There's nothing twelve-tone about it. The orchestration is Schoenberg's, and it sounds much like how Brahms would orchestrate it.
Schoenberg in fact admired Brahms. (OK, Brahms writes some of the most introspective music ever written, so I wouldn't introduce Brahms as the first classical composer to someone who has little familiarity with classical music).
on the contrary, Brahms' Hungarian Dances are ideal to introduce someone coming from pop music to classical music. They are short, lively, refreshing and fun to listen to. Perfect for someone who would be overwhelmed by 50 to 90 min of orchestrated symphonies
👏👏👏👏
Wow, like Brahms 5th!
But shows that Schoenberg could orchestrate better than Brahms...
Stephen Gould Brahms seems like a competent orchestrator but this piece is excitingly colorful. Like the Schubert Wanderer, I can't imagine Schubert could have orchestrated it quite as well as Liszt did.
@@andrewpfeiffer6218 much as I like Liszt's "Wanderer" I find it just crosses the line into vulgarity. This doesn't. (For full-on vulgarity, I recommend Glazunov's arrangement of Chopin's Military Polonaise...)
Stephen Gould I went through a Schubert kick intermittently for about a year. The kick is now over.
So maybe we'll say for occasional consumption just like you might have nachos for occasional consumption.
Much more enjoyable than the dry quartet. Bravo Schoenberg!
This is Brams first piano quartet.
Now many won't wonder why Dahlhaus called Brahms's symphonies as symphonied chamber music... Not that I really agree on that.
On the other note, this is a wonderfully performed version.
The playing is great but the photography is sometimes disappointing as it fails to put the focus on the right instruments sometimes. For example, cant believe no sight of the flute between 35-36!
sure
40:05
Eschenbach was brilliant 20 years ago. Now, it appears, he’s on remote, I need the money, control. Retirement is not giving up. Retirement is earned and respectable.
Eschenbach most probably was brillant some time ago, but, you would agree: HE IS MUCH WISER NOW ! Do you not feel that your comment about money, retirement about such a gifted MUSICIAN is unrespektful ???
I have to play the 4th movement? Oh god... rip me
I had no idea Eschenbach could go that fast.
00:07
14:56
23:25
34:14
Welches Hornmodell spielt der Solohornist Marc Gruber? Schön mal kein 103er zu sehen:)
Leonard Halm das war ein Stomvi Modell Titan 6
Auf jeden Fall! Dieser regelrechte 103er Zwang in Deutschland ist sowas von hirnrissig.
Warum steht da was in der Headline mit „Klavier“, wenn davon nichts zu sehen ist? Hat mir auch nicht so recht gefallen, irgendwie ohne Struktur und roten Faden.
Es steht ja "Klavierquartett für Orchester". Aber Sie haben Recht, man hätte noch dazu schreiben können, dass eine von Arnold Schönberg erstellte Orchester-Version des Klavierquartetts Nr.1 von Johannes Brahms ist.
Wenn Ihnen das nicht gefallen hat, probieren Sie es doch mal mit dem Original. Ein wunderbares Stück!
エッシェンバッハのブラームス、聴きやすい
Worst camera work for this prestigious orchestra. What happened to the cameramen?
Several camera persons involved; I would blame the video editor.
sure
自分用
23：05
37:52
If you mess with Eschen he’ll be Bach.
Stomvi french horn?
Yeah, tested it!
@@marcgruber5865 did you like stomvi?
Schoenberg starts this one so clearly in Brahms' own orchestral style, and then goes overboard with the brass writing. I wish he would have restrained from using the Xylophone in the finale and kept strictly to Brahms own orchestra. So no percussion except gran cassa, cymbals and triangle allowed.
Because at times this is so close to the style that it could pass as Brahms' own orchestration and then the e-flat clarinets show up and you think.... erm---- no!
The interpretation is top notch. I have Eschenbach's BMG recording, and this here is better.
Quotenwagnerianer Schönberg was quite clear about his aim of orchestrating Brahms' Piano Quartet using the instruments available at the time - 1936, if I remember correctly. Brahms never used bass clarinet or cor anglais in his orchestrations, for example. Brahms also disliked valve horns preferring to write for the warmer-toned but less powerful natural horn which his father had taught as a boy growing up in Hamburg. Schönberg also uesd a large percussion section which, to Brahms, was unheard of.
I love the Xylophone - but then I love Schoenberg
@@dannybarrs "Brahms never used bass clarinet or cor anglais in his orchestrations, for example." Because he didn't want to. These were available to Brahms.
39:30 39:45 39:55 40:02 40:19 41:50 41:22
da müsste man mal den Vor-und Nachnamen des Herrn Schoenberg korrigieren.
Danke für den Tipp! Wir haben es sofort korrigiert!
シェーンベルクの編曲は素晴らしい。作曲家のポリシーもあるので一概には言えないが本家ブラームスのオーケストレーションを上回るのでは？まだ無名な頃のピカソや北斎のデッサンが物凄く上手かったのを思い出す。エッシェンバッハはこの曲をN響とも共演しているが、この演奏と比べN響の団員が（人にもよるが）余りノッてなさそうに見え少し残念、編曲者へのリスペクトの差異か？
Beautiful performance! But I prefer the original piano quartet to this orchestrated version. The latter is too much sophisticated and short of idyllic taste of the former.
ㅐ
There is no "original version" of this work; there is only the fulfilled work, which
Schoenberg accomplished. (Would the Hungarian Dances be listened to if they
had not been orchestrated?) The Romantics, Early and Late, were not especially
comfortable in the chamber music format. Beethoven and Schubert could well
look back to Mozart and Haydn, but Brahms (even though he pined for the past)
could only be brought into the future, by Schoenberg.
Brahms was the greatest chamber music composer and his version was perfect. But this orchestration is wonderful too.
1861 - this was the young and handsome Brahms before the great white beard and substantial mid-section.
Are you out of your mind? The original Piano Quartet is a masterpiece and often performed!
And the Romantics were never comfortable with Chamber Music? That's an equally idiotic remark. Have you never heard a String Quartet by Schubert or a Piano Trio by Schumann or Mendelssohn?
And furthermore, have you never heard the Hungarian Dances with Violin+Piano or on two pianos???
In this orchestration is just too much of everything...
Embarrassing that a conductor who takes such obvious pride in his ability to manipulate detail fails to get the simple three against two at around the 26-minute mark anything CLOSE to correct. The guy wrecked the National Symphony after he was fired in Philadelphia. What a ride he's had. Meanwhile an excellent conductor like the American Dennis Russell Davies can't get a toe-hold in America.
The instrumentation of the 3rd movement is tacky!
boring
I. Allegro ∙ 0:05
II. Intermezzo. Allegro ma non troppo ∙ 14:51
III. Andante con moto ∙ 23:25
IV. Rondo alla zingarese. Presto ∙ 34:14
37:52
41:22