Pretty good! I like your critique. The way you were able to see things in such specific detail leads me to believe that you are a true fan! Great work! It's amazing to think that even with many inaccuracies many fans consider this to be the best example of Star Trek proper. In my opinion that just goes to show how great the storytelling was and the role it plays overall in a film.
Thank you very much :) Dont get me wrong, I love Trek, and these mistakes I found in no way diminish any of the Movies or episodes... But its fun sometimes just to look at things objectively and add something to the world of Trek!
The reason Kirk doesn't use the transporter to board the Enterprise is because of tradition. When a captain boards his ship for the first time, he doesn't use the transporter. He uses a shuttle to view his ship for the first time from the outside. This was established in TMP when Kirk uses a shuttle because of a transporter malfunction, the one where a Vulcan is turned into a mass of goo. I suppose he decided to start (extend?) this tradition on boarding the new Enterprise in WOK after the events of TMP. The tradition survived to Picard's time. He uses a shuttle the very first time he boards the Enterprise D.
Let's be real here though, one its recycled footage from TMP, (hence docking in the secodary hull vs the torpedo bay), and two its so we can have a glamour shot of that beautiful Constitution class refit beauty that is the Enterprise! :-)
Besides, it wasn't a new Enterprise, it was the same refit 1701 that Kirk had been flying around in since TMP. Maybe Kirk just liked seeing his ship from the outside before cruising around inside it for years at a time? He likely doesn't get to do that too often. An admiral is allowed to have a few luxuries in life.
@@flyboymb Yes, I misspoke saying it was new. But it was a refit and with so many changes, virtually a new ship. If I was captain, I'd treat it as new and do an external tour. He probably had not been on it for many months, likely more than a year, since the refit started. Maybe the tradition is to use a shuttle when 1) first time on new ship, 2) first time on a refit, even if same ship, 3) first time since being promoted, 4) whenever I feel like it, damn it, I'm an Admiral now. This tradition by the way was mentioned in the first Next Gen book if I recall correctly. In it, Picard is thinking something like, "why not simply transport aboard? It has become tradition to use a shuttle to board your ship the very first time since Kirk did it following a transporter malfunction". That's not mentioned in the series but he is shown doing so with Tasha Yar as the navigator. And Archer did it too (with Trip scraping the paint) but only because transporters were not yet trusted. The piping of a captain when boarding his ship is of course an old English naval tradition.
it is also showin in TNG, Picard also was shuttled to both Enterprise D and E, in the two parter where Q has Picard jumping through three time periods, when he's in the past it begins prior to boarding the Galaxy class and Q is his pilot. If memory serves Janeway mentoined her shuttle trip to Voyager to Chakotay.
Love the show, I know you only look at what is seen on screen but some of the Saavik stuff can be explained with stuff that was cut from the original script. These cuts did make Saavik seem inconsistent due to her shedding a tear and saying "damn". Basically in the script it called for her to be only half-Vulcan like Spock, but unlike Spock she was to be also half-Romulan. You can find the deleted scene on youtube.
Indeed, when the Wrath of Khan came out I read Vonda Mcintryre's novelization and that's explained in there as well! Although as you said, I only look at what is canon! And unfortunately as such, she is a very bad Vulcan :P
I would love for her to show up on screen at some point later on and that fact is revealed.. I love the idea of a Half Vulcan/Half Romulan character.... would be great :) I am so glad you keep to a strict definition of canon. Thank you for doing so :)
Indeed, so would I, but sadly, I doubt it will happen :( And you're welcome, though you dont have to thank me for that... Like most Trekkers/ Trekies I have my "head Canon," but when I decided to do these videos I had to set out some rules and that one just seemed to make sense :)
TriAngulum Studios Audio Comics The film never directly states Saavik is 100% Vulcan. Based on her behavior, she sure didn't act that way. So I've always gone by the novel adaption that she was 50% Romulan under Spock's tutelage to control her Romulan side (which may also explain why they switched from Romulans to Klingons in the Kobayashi Maru - so she wasn't facing her own people). However, by STIII, she inexplicably looks (the now Vulcan eyebrows) and acts more like a full Vulcan.
Though those are interesting theories, and make sense, it simply isnt supported by canon. And canon is what is seen on screen not what isnt! Ive read that the novelizations of ALL the Trek movies and you are right, that is a huge point in the book! But that should have been stating in the movie to explain away any mistakes, since they did that with Spock all the time! Plus it would give more depth to the character! As for what she was facing in the Kobayashi Maru test, it would actually make more sense to have her face her own people. After all she wouldnt be able to avoid them in real life and Starfleet would want to see how she would react! The Truth is though it was supposed to be Romuilans used, but to save money they opted last minute to change it to Klingons so they could use the footage from TMP!
I recall that Scotty brings the body to the bridge because of a scene that was cut from the movie where he talks about how proud he is to have him there. The body was that of his nephew(?) who he had managed to get posted to the Enterprise as his first post. He's carrying his dead nephew in shock, disbelief and guilt.
Maybe the Bridge was located between Engineering and Sick Bay and somebody pushed the Turbolift button on the Bridge. "Uh, sorry Scotty, I'll take the next one." hehe
Although not always accurate you can make the argument that Chekov was on the Enterprise during 'Space Seed' by the fact that 'Catspaw' has a stardate that places it as happening earlier. Given he has his wig on backwards in 'Catspaw' he was perhaps demoted until he showed that he could do the simple things.
as far as villains go Khan made 1 appearance in TOS but Harry Mudd made 2 I'd say giving him priority to make a film appearance. considering the success of II Shatner should have scrapped his search for God story and given us Star Trek V: The Wrath of Mudd
How did the Enterprise ever get to Regula 1 on impulse power? They were 12 hours 43 minutes away at warp 5 before they watched the Genesis video. Take away maybe 45 minutes but it they're still at least 12 hours away at warp 5. Also why were they going warp 5? Wouldn't warp 7 or better be warranted for a "emergency" situation.
At 5:07 when Chekov and Captain Terrell are discussing sensor readings, the display panel to the left of Chekov's head clearly shows a cross section of the engineering hull of a Constitution class starship, something the Reliant doesn't have. Then, as the camera pans left to follow the actors, you see more of the same panel showing a front and top down view of the Reliant's saucer section, but without any of the extra hull that covers the rear of the Miranda class' saucer. I'm guessing it was the Enterprise's bridge set that was reused.....
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I seem to recall in the commentary for the DVD they say the Reliant was originally going to be an older version of the same class as Enterprise, but they decided to change its look since it would be confusing for the audience during the battle scenes if both ships looked the same. The model work would have been done after the actors and sets were filmed, so too late to change the display.
@@lesigh1749 The model work was being done at the same time as it was being filmed... And yes the first draft it was going to be... However, it was quickly changed and the design was actually supposed to as you see it but upside down...
Yep. And Shatner and Montelban ever saw each other during the entire shoot from what I've heard. It makes sense to re-use the same bridge set, since they look about the same from the exterior, but it's too bad they didn't record a different console display for when shooting the Reliant's p.o.v. Surprised the new remastered version didn't fix that with some careful cropping and pasting.
My question is how the crew of the Reliant is so stupid that they don't know that an entire planet just disappeared. Basically, they forgot how to count. There were X number of planets 20 years ago in TOS, then there is X-1 in TWOK
Acme. Nipp-on-AiR well, maybe they did remember who was on Ceti Alpha 5. I mean, I’d call this a “kill 2 birds (or maybe like 73) with one stone” moment. Think about it, the Genesis device didn’t turn a barren planet into a thriving planet, it took the matter of a nebula, just a giant ball of hydrogen and helium, and collapsed it into a star system, just to create a single planet with lifeforms. That thing would have taken out the entire system if they set it off.
The torpedo bay number 2 was severely damaged after Khan hit it and killing one crew member and yet during Spock's funeral, it is somehow it is all repaired
Also maybe worth noting is that "Torp Bay 2" is on the port side, ostensibly where Kirk's shuttlepod was meant to have docked (production errors aside). The port-side torpedo bay was hit in the middle of 'great-strategist'-Kirk's evasive move to starboard in the Battle, thus presumably destroying Torp Bay 2. Yet by the Funeral scene, the same Torp Bay 2 is still pristine and undamaged.
It's also funny that the portside torpedo bay would be numbered "2" to begin with...you'd think it would be "1" and the starboard side would be "2"...unless maybe that stuff is counted clockwise from the bow, then I guess it's right....nevermind.
Good breakdown. One thing of note, I believe the evasive starboard was to avoid collision, since it is a more of a nautical maneuver than a space combat. The overturn was probably just a in the heat of combat mistake. Luckily Enterprise still was able to bring her port phaser banks to bear and score a direct hit on the bridge. It is typical for naval vessels that are head on to turn starboard and pass port to port to avoid collision. Although it wouldn't apply here since a majority of Enterpise's weapons face forward, it was fairly typical for surface ships to broadside other surface ships in older engagements. This allowed to bring all guns to bear, instead of just the forward ones. I do understand that leaves a greater target, but it would a risk-benefit scenario. I believe i read somewhere that they approached the combat scenes with traditional naval surface ship tactics and speed to make it more dramatic, since a ship to ship space battle would occur at a much faster pace. (See TNG space battles.)
I like the fact that Kirk orders phasers on stun and McCoy has his set to vaporize. He's not taking any chances no matter what Kirk says. I know it's almost certainly an error, but it works for me.
Even when I was young I thought it was weird that the Klingon Neutral Zone was a sphere. All I can think is that the entire Klingon Empire is encircled by the UFP.
To me, since I first saw this film in the theater at age 13, that sphere representation is the image of the Enterprise's entry point into the Zone. It probably indicates the sensor's maximum 3-dimensional scanning radius of that particular area of space. Since the trio of D-7M K'tinga's closely patrolling their side of the Zone's Border didn't immediately appear on it, I always assumed that they had been cloaked, and in 'Stealth Mode'. Quite possibly, the Klingon's were setting a trap after having faked a 'distress signal' from a Federation-registered Freighter. They were known to do exactly this sort of thing, As seen in the TOS Ep: 'Friday's Child'. This has always seemed to me to be what actually happened in the Simulation, as Uhura reports immediately after entering Klingon Space that the K.M.'s signal was lost, and the ship, (or any wreckage), was never seen. Then the D-7M trio suddenly shows up, apparently out of nowhere! Just an old, Gen-X, Mega-Trekker's Two Federation Credit's worth.
Perhaps it was due to it being a simulation? Maybe they didn't want to model a huge tract of space for what was actually a very short mission for most commanders involved? Many military scenarios often require some creative 'funneling' by the facilitators to keep everybody in the same area.
Walter Koenig himself said that Chekov kept Khan waiting for the rest room in Space Seed. More than enough reason for Khan to want revenge. LOL. And Vulcans are full of shit. They claim to be only logical, but they re VERY emotional. Logic is a discipline.
And don't forget, Saavik is half romulan. This means, she has it much harder dealing with her emotions than the average Vulcan. Perhabs a reason, Spock is her protege: he knows, how she feels inside as a half-human/half-vulcan
@@OOTurok They are not exactly the same species. After the split they developed differently. If you look at a Vulcan and a Romulan there are distinctive differences in physiology as well as medical make up. They are similar but different. They have evolved differently therefore no longer the same.
@@Kurbash5668 The differences between Vulcans & Romulans is the equivalent of the differences between the Caucasiod, Africanoid, & Mogoloid human races. Furthermore... the Vulcans have not evolved to have no emotions. Vulcans choose to adopt a philosophy of emotion suppression & to govern themselves through logic & reason, which they adopted, about 2,000 years before TNG era. During this Time Of Awakening... Vulcan society split & the dissidents, who were against Surak's philosophy, abandoned Vulcan, & colonized Romulus, becoming the Romulan people. The Vulcans & Romulans are only separated from each other by 2,000 years. They are both different races of the same species.
@@OOTurok There is many physical differences in the two races. I did not touch much on the emotions because I know for a fact that it was a choice to supress not an evolutionary change. They are different completely due to evolutionary changes due to conditions of the two world are completely different. Vulcans are soft crown capped unlike Romulans who have protrusions of their skulls. 2000 is still enough time to make the evolutionary changes due to the 2 different types of worlds. This can force a change due to environments.
TMP is at least two and a half years after the conclusion of the five year mission, as dialogue in TMP establishes that Kirk has been Chief of Starship Operations for the past two and a half years. The 18 month refit Scotty and Decker oversaw must have begun a year after Kirk's promotion.
That doesnt make sense... Cause even if McCoy was on the bridge during the Red Alert, what could he possibly do to help someone with those extensive medical issues... Thats REALLY REALLY stretching...
I've always wondered whether Spock was subjected to the same delta particle radiation that Captain Pike was crippled by? He certainly showed the signs of skin degradation that likely led to Pike's scarring and we do know that the delta radiation comes from warp core reactions. Only a Vulcan could see how such radiation had affected his mentor of so many years and yet step into a chamber full of it without a second thought.
There is no canon evidence to support that... Though originally she was intended to be, Nick Myer removed that from the movie in order to have a full vulcan tear to have more impact at the end of the movie...
According to the Star Trek 2 novel that you can read she was part romulan. and after Spock died she went to his cabin before they blast them off and wept
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Just looking to movie canon, I'd cite both STtMP and ST5. The purging of emotion is a discipline which Vulcans undertake. There is no reason to assume that all Vulcans automatically achieve this by some given point in their lives. Additional evidence of this is Sybok, who outright rejected the discipline. It may look odd to the audience - especially casual observers - but nothing about it goes against canon. And it may not seem like retconning to cite a later movie, but Sybok doesn't change anything about the canon. He just provides a better illustration of it.
@@distractionbeast778 True Sybok made a conscious choice about disregarding those emotionless disciplines... However there is no indication here the Saavik did... In fact theres every indication that like almost EVERY other Vulcan we've seen that she in fact lives as the status quo... Were constantly told in every series that Vulcan repress there emotions, thus her shedding a tear is tantamount to an emotional outburst... For that reason the mistake stands...
It has been speculated that the odd scene with Scotty in the turbolift is the result of having to rewrite Spock's death scene after word of it was leaked. The idea being that Spock was originally supposed to die on the bridge, adding to the gravity of Kahn's threat. One bit of evidence for this theory comes from the fact that Spock doesn't join the away team as he traditionally would have. Instead having a new Vulcan character serving in his place.
The Kobayashi Maru simulation takes place at Starfleet in a generic bridge. The fact that Captain Spock's trainees are testing is perhaps the reason that Saavik states that the vessel is the U.S.S. Enterprise.
Why is a capital ship like the Enterprise being used for a cadet training cruise? Why is Khan such an unknown to Terrell? When entering the Ceti Alpha system, wouldn't the staff have naturally looked up the history of the area and realized, oh boy, some bad dudes in this system? And wouldn't anyone have noticed right away that besides there being a planet missing in the system, there also seems to be a lot of planetary debris floating around? And in the battle with Reliant and the view screens are down or erratic, wouldn't it make sense to dispatch some actual crew members fore, aft, port and starboard to -- oh, I dunno -- LOOK OUT A WINDOW and report back to the bridge what they're seeing?
Well over 10 years have passed since Vger by this point, and its logical to assume that being the first refit vessel design flaws cropped up to make the vessel less reliable then the ones that come after her... Also he actual age would be about 40 years old at that point... So there's that... It could also be that Starfleet does that occasionally and temporarily with Starfleet ships, rotating them out until they decide what to do with them... Ive always had a huge prob with them stumbling over Khan... It's clearly a plot device... As for the window thing, that's also a common question I ask myself... Great catches!
That's a plausible explanation for using the Enterprise as a cadet ship...yet even by today's standards, 40 years old does not age a vessel out of first-line service. In fact, according to The Making of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry intended the Enterprise to already be 40 years old at the time of TOS, as he wanted the ship to "have some history." But more to the point, when the Reliant goes missing, Star Fleet only has a cadet ship (Enterprise) available to investigate. And in ST:TMP the only ship protecting the Earth is one in drydock (Enterprise again). This suggests there is quite a shortage of capital ships, which hardly justifies using one of them as a cadet ship. But...I could see something close to your point. Maybe the Enterprise is back at HQ for routine refit, crew rotation and etc., and the opportunity is taken to use it for this purpose while a new crew is waiting assignment. And that the senior officers on board would be drafted into some training curricular as instructors, as part of their own periodic requalification.@@TriAngulumAudioStudios
Starfleet uses their important ships for cadet training quite often... remember Valiant in DS9 ... that was very much new ship, given that the lead ship of the class, Defiant was put into service only couple of years prior
one little thing, not a huge thing, is Carol having time or taking the effort to change into casual clothes (from her science uniform) after beaming down to the Genesis Cave/Regula after fleeing for her life.
The hard to starboard was two fold, 1 so they didn't collide and 2 any other direction would have exposed more of the ship. Down would expose the bridge, up would put more of the ship in line with the torpedo bay, port would expose undamaged side. Starboard was the most logical choice.
Nice errors. By the way, the "error" with the star dates is easy explainable: they just left out the first digit. Yes, in TOS and TMP everything is four digits. But that's just conveniance. Like we before 2000 always wrote '86 instead of 1986. The 71xx in Movie 2 is 10 years AFTER the 74xx in Movie 1. They just left out the first digit.
The reason that is because the 2 bridges are the same set just redressed the chairs on the RELIANT are from the ENTERPRISE bridge in the THE MOTION PICTURE .the bridge set was made up like pie wedges and by changing the slices they made a different bridge the command area and helm/navigation station as well as weapons station stayed the same even the tubolift on both ships are identical except ENTERPRISE had 2 lifts and the RELIANT only had 1 lift on the bridge and their were different colors. Also when the this film was first written the RELIANT was to look like the ENTERPRISE but it was changed because the audience would not be able to tell which one they looking at in the battle .
I enjoy all of these discussions and about myths or errors or mistakes excetera excetera excetera but what you can't deny even with all of that it was a damn good enjoyable movie. 😁
The grates absolutely make sense and it was a great shot. It's the most military part of the ship, and if those grates were motorized they could become stuck. Crewmen assigned to clear them (with excellent choreography) will never break down before a battle like mechanical systems could. BTW I'm binging this video series and loving it, thank you!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I think he's asking how the Enterprise, which was automated in ST III, would have readied itself for battle against the BoP? I suppose it could be assumed that the grates were removed by Scotty on the off chance they needed to launch something, but then again Scotty said that the system was never meant to be used for battle. Maybe the grates were just removed after they entered Spacedock and the crew lucked out?
Except that in Enterprise we see that the loading process is completely automated... It make no logical sense to head back to this kind on manual labor... Also this video is on Trek 2, but you make a great point about Trek 3 I hadnt considered...
The reason Kahn thought it was a Klingon proverb is he only had time to do a quick Google search of cool sounding phrases before meeting the enterprise and couldn't fact check it
You know I never noticed before but @4:50 why does it look like on the top left display that there is a Constitution style saucer with JJ Constitution style nacelles?
So far you've made all the same points I did after just recently buying and watching the bluray box set and never noticing all the inconsistencies after a lifetime of viewings!:)
This is just a myth, as some could, and some dont... But since there's no official canon that can explain ALL stardates and how they work, well it's really could NEVER be verified... Only hypothesized about...
The whole point of Khan's capture of Chekhov and Tyrell is that the meeting was happenstance. Khan didn't know that they had transported down but caught them rather accidentally running out of the Botany Bay. Of course, Chekhov and Tyrell should have called for an emergency beam out at that point, but this may be explained by Tyrell's ignorance of Khan and Chekhov not being able to fully convince Tyrell of the danger that Khan posed. You are also missing the humor of Star Trek in general. In Star Trek VI: the Undiscovered Country, there were several human sayings that seemed appropriated by the other alien races. Spock claimed that "only Nixon could go to China" was an old Vulcan proverb (which got a lot of yucks in the theater when I watched it). As well, Chang claimed that Shakespeare was much better "in the original Klingon!" There was also Dr. McCoy in this movie saying to Kirk in this movie "Beware of Romulans bearing gifts" which was a turn on the phrase referring to Greeks. Also, in Space Seed, the episode made notice of Khan's keen intellect and how he was able to deduce 23rd century technology so quickly (he being from the 20th Century). It may very well be explained that Khan didn't just learn about the Enterprise's systems.
Except what we see on screen doesnt support what you're saying. Khan and ALL his people are merely standing outside waiting, that is not happenstance! Sorry the mistake stands!
Gene Roddenberry made Nick Mayer take the "No Smoking" sign down, but I didn't realize it still made it into a few shows. Mayer wanted to make the Star Trek world more relatable so he added things like that and the janitor.
I would be surprised if Gene made anyone do anything by this point, given that he had lost all control over Trek at the end of TMP... Shatner explains in his autobiography that Roddenberry had been given the ceremonial title of Exec Producer but had lost all power...
Great segment ! You give a good narration . Savik is emotional because she is half Vulcan (thank-you Captain Spock) and half Romulan (thank-you female Romulan commander from TOS episode Enterprise incident) Commander Scott got to the bridge by MacGivering the elevator . The dead crewman was his nephew Peter Prestridge . ETC ,ETC, ETC. (11 November 2018 1940 hours)
Thank you very much... A lot of people believe that about Saavik, since it was included in the original script... Though if that was true she was half Rom, Quarter Vulcan, Quarter Human... However there is no canon evidence to support it... In fact on memory Alpha, which only deals with canon, she is listed as full vulcan. In reality the director removed the reference to half rom because he felt a tear coming from a full vulcan would be more impactful... Macgivering the Turbolift is one thing, but going right by sickbay to end up on the bridge doesnt seem plausible from a reality stand point, great for story telling though!
@@susanesquer1520 No it wouldn't. Scotty's nephew got hurt before his next line cue. Scotty knew how important his performances were to him in life, so he honored what would have been his nephew's last wish - to get back in front of the camera. Unfortunately, the camera was waiting up at the bridge, and Scotty had no way of knowing if his nephew would survive until it traveled to Sickbay. The big difficulty was climbing all those ladders up to A deck (or deck 78? lol) with a cadet on his back.
You make some very good points. I would also like to point out the size of the communicators. They are much bigger and bulkier than the ones in the original series. Wouldn't they be smaller? Also, why didn't Spock wear a radiation suit? I'm sure they would've had some nearby the reactor room. But at the same time, Spock's death was, and still is, one of the most emotional moments ever seen in the franchise. It still has me scratching my head though when I actually think about it. His death could've easily been prevented.
Great Point, the comms should be smaller really... The radiation suit could be chalked up to Spock just not having time to put one on, after calculating how much time it would take him to get the mains back online...
The communicators they were using were combat communicators and made to withstand more damage. Spock probably did not have time to put on a suit. His logic may have told him saving others was more important than his own safety.
When Kirk leaves the turbolift, after he and McCoy receive the news that Carol Marcus is on the line, he's wearing a gold Timex watch on his left wrist.
FYI - In the, "Novel", version, it's mentioned that Saavik is "Half Vulcan & Half Romulan." It's a shame that a scene w/Kirk & Spock in which Spock mentions this particular detail was deleted.
@Gerry C Thats not how canon works... Canon is anything seen on screen in episode or Movie form branded as Trek by the owners of Trek. As such deleted scenes, novels vid games, rumors, what the actor says is not canon... Please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Canon to better understand canon, thank you
@Gerry C Im sorry but Memory Alpha deals with canon, and I personally have agreed with this analysis, you can be as stubborn as you want but the Mistake stands as canon is clearly defined and an explanation is given so please refer to the link above to better understand Saavik and why Half Rom is NOT canon.... Also what Alley says about her character is unimportant as that is also NOT canon, she could say she was a jelly donut but all that matters is what is seen in the movie!
Nice job 👍🏻 Just to throw something in though, the “prepare for battle” scene is a superb sequence. Totally in keeping with the idea of a classic sea-battle. Follows with the ships getting alongside and throwing broadsides at each other, when even fighter jets of the 70s had missiles with a 100 mile range. Torpedos from the opposite side of the sector isn’t as cinematically exciting, but is seen (of a sort) in the early episodes of The Expanse. Like your work, keep em coming 👌🏻
Im sorry you are incorrect, this is a common myth among Trek fans... Please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Saavik and note she is listed as vulcan because Myer removed all references from his movie feeling that her crying as a full vulcan would be more powerful to the audience!
Smartphones have touch controls that can be used instead of talking to it, the phones don't always recognize voice control. The turbolift probably still has both like in TOS though it has been redesigned for the movie
Hello again, my friend. I caught one and not sure if anyone mentioned it. Anyway, at the part where Khan activates the Genesis Device, the timer says 999 and counts down. When Spock monitors it and informs Kirk, David Marcus comments, “encoded 4 minutes.” Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t 999 seconds approximately 17 minutes and 8 seconds?
The turbo lift question can be explained away given the time in-between the attack and Spock's comment that they don't work below C Deck. It has been at least 2 hours since the Reliant damaged the Enterprise in the initial attack, and when Scotty first uses the turbo lift to get to the bridge. Why he choose to take him there is anybody's guess. The movie making logic is that it serves as a dramatic reveal. The in universe explanation could be that Scotty was simply in shock because his nephew had nearly been killed. Anyway, with regard to the turbo lift not working...by the time Kirk gets back aboard, Spock tells him that they have "partial main power", when before they only had "auxiliary power". This means that the crew was able to make some repairs to the ship by the time Kirk and company beamed back aboard from Regula. It is only then that Spock mentions to Kirk that the turbo lifts do not work below C Deck. It is entirely possible that during the repair process it was necessary for damage control teams and engineering crews to re-route power from some systems in order to shore up others. Later in the film, Scotty says that the energizer is bypassed like a Christmas tree, implying that re-routing power was a common short cut for restoring power to damaged systems. It would totally make sense if the turbo lifts (a non critical system) were taken off line in order to re-route power to more critical systems (like the impulse engines, or phasers). So I don't really consider this one a mistake.
Im sorry I dont buy it... During an emergency it is even MORE critical that a ship has a working form of transportation to get injured to sickbay, crew men to area where needed etc... Plus I dont think the turbolifts would take an amount of power to run that would be helpful in diverting it to any system.... ALSO why then keep them working to C deck? Surely you would turn them right off if your theory was accurate....
You've caught many of the goofs I would have pointed out here, except as noted previously. But another thing is just how convenient it is that the only native life forms still alive on Ceti Alpha happen to be useful for mind controlling humans... As for Khan quoting Klingon proverbs (which aren't really Klingon proverbs but oh, well), that used to bother me too but I guess one could assume that his crew was left with a library that included enough Klingon information for him to acquire this knowledge while reading in exile.
Thank you so much! You are right it is convenient, but no necessarily a mistake since Khan says only remaining indigenous lifeform, and it could be remaining thanks to his efforts... Though it's obviously a plot device :P As to a library with Klingon Literature, I would find that hard to believe, since there has been no obvious canon evidence that the Klingons would have shared their media with the Federation at any point... In Fact in DSC the Feds dont even have an updated Map of Qu'Nos a century after Archer was there...
While not a mistake per se, I consider the presence of a "mind control" creature to be lazy writing, as I consider most examples of deux ex machina to be. As for why it, alone, happens to still be alive though, well, you have provided a pretty nifty explanation, i.e., that Khan (likely recognizing it's ability to control his own people and maybe even already having used it for that effect) made a special effort to keep it alive. Regarding Klingon literature in a Star Trek data base...I still think it is plausible. Cold Wars heat and thaw periodically. By Star Trek VI, the Klingons seemed to have ample access to Earth literature and the Federation had a Klingon dictionary. Each knew the other's languages. Some exchange of literature seems likely. During the U.S. and U.S.S.R. Cold War there were a lot of cultural exchanges but other internal secrets remained secrets. @@TriAngulumAudioStudios
You forgot, in the first attack from Reliant... in the counter attack from the Enterprise where they fire several short phaser shots at Reliant onto the top hull section...the first strafe makes a damage point on the dorsal area of the hull and the second shot destroys the Aft Warp Nacelle or the warp control housing at the top of the Reliant hull gets destroyed. You can clearly see this happen. However, when you see Reliant limp away moving away from the camera with the camera looking at it's aft or back section you can clearly see there is no damage that has been done from the phaser fire...
Although no mention of smoking, apart from Quark surprisingly being against it in 'Little Green Men' in DS9 there is a no salt sucking sign on the promenade. Salt sucking was introduced in 'TNG Gambit' and shown in the background of scenes set in the Occupation. I assume originally it was a hat tip to 'The Man Trap'
I want to thank you for answering my comments with respect unlike some of the "other" sites if I ask a question or make an innocent comment I am called a"dumb-ass cunt" by the guy hosting the site . Thank-you for not disrespecting me right from the start . Much respect ,sir (12 November 2018 0800 hours)
No problem! The goal of this channel is to create a safe non toxic environment for people to discuss different aspects of Trek... That being said, people who come in here and are just rude or hateful or are stubborn for the sake of stubbornness get shown the door...
Saavik is crying because she’s sad. Vulcans are not void of emotion; they suppress them. She just watched Kirk give the most emotional speech he would ever give and she teared up. Anyone who doesn’t at that scene is god damn monster!
Yeah no... Vulcans are taught to suppress their emotions, not only would it be extremely odd for a Vulcan to cry, but completely disrespectful to a mentor who strives for no outward emotion at all... This was done purely for dramatic effect as confirmed by Nick Myer, thus it IS a mistake and the mistake stands!
Why does the torpedo that the Reliant fires at the Enterprise from one of it's rear tubes leave the tube at an angle that would only be possible if the tube could articulate/pivot?
Very nice. here it is 2018 and smoking has been banned on aircraft for years so why would they still have to have a sign on the bridge of the Enterprise in the 23rd century?
In the 23rd century tobacco has been genetically engineered to be not only harmless but to actually be good for you. So much so that they had to ban it on the bridge because nobody could see their panels for the smoke. Also with all that smoke about, nobody knew which panel was blowing up.
Very good video. I never really noticed the blood stain on Kirk's bib changing places until you pointed it out. The other stuff I knew about for years(seriously, when did Khan ever have time to read up on Klingon proverbs? While he was in Enterprise's sick bay in tos Space Seed maybe?) In Spock's funeral scene, Actress Kirstie Alley was really crying because the scene was just so sad and they left it in. Despite all it's flaws, inaccuracies, indescrepencies, and inconsistencies, Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan was still a damn good movie, and arguably the best of the franchise...certainly the most memorable(with maybe the exception of III just because of the self destruct of the Enterprise).
The neutral zone is not represented as a sphere, it is represented as a circular tube stretching along the borders as you clearly show at 1:58 to 2:05.
Kirk being nervous about Saavik captaining the Enterprise is because he still sees the Enterprise as his ship and he regrets giving up the captain chair for an admiralty. Is it rational? Not especially. But it's very much in character for Kirk. The grates in the torpedo bay make sense. Though them needing to be manually removed doesn't. Since the torpedoes follow a track through a part of the bay that is set into an indentation in the floor, it makes perfect sense to cover that up when you aren't going to be using it any time soon. Vulcans are emotional. Extremely so. Their adherence to logic is a discipline, not a natural condition. And like all disciplines, some are better at it than others.
The grates make NO sense as the system is fully automated 100 years before in Enterprise, and having to remove grates everytime you go in to battle is a time waster... It would have been something Starfleet would have realized long before this point in Fed history... It was done for purely dramatic effect in the movie nothing more...
I always interpreted it as Kirk just being excited to be back on the Enterprise as it pulls out of space dock. It had nothing to do with the competence of Savvik or Sulu.
The Ceti Alpha System one makes sense - The Ceti Alpha System was a remote system. Mapping a system and actually exploring it are two very different things. They probably entered the system, saw that there were five planets instead of six, and assumed there always were five and someone made a mistake. A number of others are questions that actually have pretty easy answers as well, like Khan having a book on Klingons while he was on the planet, or the ship being slightly altered over the years as the crew became more familiar with the ship. Also, why wouldn't they have grates over the torpedo area? Someone may fall in. And Vulcans do have emotions, they just restrain them.
That doesnt make sense for a few reasons... First in is not a remote system as in Enterprise the remaining human vessels were able to get there even at low warp... Second, Spock looks up Ceti and gives Kirk info on it in Space Seed, then they go to Khan and drop him off... Do you think they didnt scan the system then? While they were there? It's not like something minor changed... An ENTIRE PLANET is missing, that's something that could NEVER go unnoticed!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Scan, sure - But actually go there and make a detailed survey? It must have been a remote system, or Khan would never have been able to get away with being left alone there, and anything that Kirk would have gotten from scans of the system while there would have been covered up along with Khan's location. It's possible that it is near to Earth, but outside of the normal space lanes - This would also explain why it would make a good test site for Genesis, and why The Botany Bay would not have been found by anyone before Kirk's time. For example - There are small towns on Long Island that are just a stone's throw from New York City that are basically just backwoods nowherevilles that you would not believe are near the most influential city in the world - They aren't near the highways, and so no one heads in that direction. The Ceti Alpha System could be something similar - Outside of the normal lines of travel where no one really bothers to go.
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios To prove conclusively how many planets are in a system, you do. Scanning them from a distance isn't the same thing as actually being there and watching their characteristics. For all they knew, what they thought was Ceti Alpha V may have been a rogue asteroid or a planet that hadn't cleared its orbit, and has now broken up. I'm sure it wasn't the first time they rolled into a system and found it different than the star charts said it was.
LOL No you dont! You have the original scans that were done... Which you also dont know how detailed it was since at the end of Space Seed Spock gives detailed info about CA5's surface, so chances are that a detailed survey was done... Then you have the scans of Enterprise dropping Khan off saying how many planets... You dont need a detailed survey to count large planetary bodies... That makes absolutely no sense at all, thus the mistake stands!
The Klingon proverb - You are right that Khan wouldn't know anything about Klingons, but it fits that it's a "Klingon" proverb. There's a gag where different groups claim something they didn't really create. If I recall, Checkov claims Cinderella was a Russian story. Chancellor Gorkon makes a comment in Undiscovered Country about Shakespeare not being fully appreciated unless it is in its "original Klingon." Now that I think about it, didn't Khan have access to historical records while a "visitor" on the Enterprise? Maybe he read enough before he tried to take over.
Vulcans have emotions, they are are just extreemly supressed. It's vulcan teachings and culture that allow them to act all robotic. So Saavik crying or letting out a curse word doesn't really shock me. It just enhances the weight of the moment.
Correct sir. Logic is a philosophy that they CHOOSE and learn to follow. We know form TNG that Sarek loved Spock because Picard learned this from the mind meld with Sarek.
Why was no mention made of the Reliant when the Enterprise was ordered to investigate and why would it be surprising that the ship assigned to the Genesis Project be in the vicinity of Regula I?
One thing of note - Saavik is not supposed to be a full on Vulkan, she is supposed to be half Romulan which makes swearing and some level of emotion understandable.
Im sorry you are incorrect... Although she was originally intended to be Half Vulcan that never came to be as Nick Myers felt that her being a FULL Vulcan and shedding a tear would be more powerful... Thus as canon supports, she is FULL Vulcan... Please refer to memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Saavik to better understand Saavik, thank you!
I have a bigger question. Kirk at one point says "This is damn peculiar..." Saavik orders "Energize defence shields..." Since when is raising shields a two step process? You have to energize them then raise them? When you are energize the shields aren't in fact raising them?
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I realize it's also to move the story along. But when you raise shields. JUST RAISE THEM. (Unless you can't, and can't find the over-ride!)
But it actually has nothing to do with the shields... Yellow alert is merely a heightened state of alert with internal defense systems activated, where as red alert is external defense systems...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Memory Alpha does state though in regards to yellow alert: In this status, a ship's defense fields were energized, and/or the deflector shields were brought to full power, but the weapons systems remained off-line. (TOS: "A Taste of Armageddon"; "The Lights of Zetar"; Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home). In this situation unless specifically ordered to by Kirk there is no reason to assume the shields would remain down if Savik is activating other defensive systems.
In Star Trek TMP it's said the phasers get power from the main engines so how when after Khan attacks are they able to get a few shots out at the Reliant when the mains are down?
Mike Schatz: in TMP, Decker tells Kirk that the redesign channels phaser power through the main engines. In TMP, the engines were in matter/anti matter imbalance, so non operational. In TWOK, the engines were in balance, just the main energizer disabled and offline.
My explanation for how the Enterprise is always the "only ship in the quadrant" or "sector" or whatever, is this: We always see the depictions of the quadrants in top-down charts. What those charts don't show is that each of the primary quadrants is only a couple of lightyears in "height". The considerable gravity distortions that occur during warp travel mean that even relatively near misses by passing starships would result in catastrophic loss of life and equipment. Therefore, each ship must remain in its own vertical quadrant to prevent such devastation. The Enterprise is the only ship assigned to operate on that particular plane at that time. Other ships may be nearby, but on a different galactic offset which uses an unnamed quadrant naming convention. There is simply no time to obtain the clearances needed for the ships to change their assigned quadrants and therefore, the Enterprise must act alone. :) Do I get a no-prize?
You asked for other errors you may have missed. On the bridge of the Reliant, on one of the monitors behind Chekov, there is a display of the layout of the ship in blue, you can see the lower -- or engineering hull -- from the Constitution-class starship being shown as part of the clearly Miranda-class Reliant. It appears to be separate from the saucer section. You can also see part of the neck at the bottom of the saucer section on the same display. This is due to the fact that the bridge for the Reliant is just a redress of the set of the Enterprise. This is clearly visible at the 4:54 mark in your video.
Yes this mistake has already been discovered and address in Episode 44 Addendum, where I give shout outs to people who are the first to point out mistakes I've made! thank you forthe support!
Did you get majority of your nitpicks from an old 90s book The Nitpicker's Guide for Classic Trekkers by Phil Farrand? I recognise a lot of the nitpicks you mentioned in the video.
No I didnt, simply watched and figured them out... Though others have suggested I pick up this book to make my job easier, and because I missed some. As of yet, I have been unable to find it...
Im sorry you are incorrect, this is a common myth among Trek fans... Please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Saavik and note she is listed as vulcan because Myer removed all references from his movie feeling that her crying as a full vulcan would be more powerful to the audience! Also novels are never canon thus not truths...
Actually if I remember Correctly the Klingons got a neutral zone as part of the Origenian peace treaty don't recall it talked about in that episode or in a later one or even something that was retconned in later
Maybe Kirk got rusty as a starship commander... Of course, Reliant appears to hold her course when encountering Enterprise head on, so could the reason be Kirk orders evasive starboard be to avoid smashing the warp nacelles and get a possible shot off from the aft torpedo launcher which wouldn't have been possible with a turn to port
The Ceti Alpha planet confusion may be possible since we don't know how accurate stellar cartography is in the 23th century, especially for such less important systems. I mean even a star system is still huge. Ceti Alpha V and VI could have been counter planets on the same orbit around the sun and they just hit the wrong one.
You did miss one other - the age of Khan's followers. Based on Space Seed, Khan's people appeared in their late 20's and up. Wrath of Khans followers looked around the same age (if not younger), yet Khan obviously aged.
what about the belt buckle that kirk has when he walks onto the bridge in the original show every thing was Velcro down and yet when we see khan he is wearing the buckle around his neck!? how?
I have a puzzling point to share Khan wears a slightly broken starfleet symbol on a chain over his pecs, but is that not one of the new red tunic belt buckles if so where did Khan get it as they were marooned on the planet back during the first season of the original series ?????
From what I had read. Admiral Kirk was turning 50 not 52. An he was the Youngest Admiral in Starfleet history. He was having a mid life crisis. Wanting to get back in the Captain's chair.
'The Klingons don't take prisoners' Saavik is taken prisoner in the very next film after Doc Brown vaporizes his weapon's officer for failing to take prisoners. Uncle Fester also demanded that the Enterprise crew surrender instead of firing on the bridge and beaming over to a totally uncrewed ship. Honestly, it seems that Klingons do nothing BUT take prisoners! And so do the Romulans given what happened to the Klingons at Khitomer.
This movie is described as the best Star Trek movie, it was certainly an improvement on Star Trek The Motion Picture, sometimes referred to as the motionless picture, which considering how disappointing that film was, you could argue this was not much of an achievement. I agree with most of the points you make, but I want to thank you for pointing out the utterly pointless scene In which Scotty carries the critically injured cadet to the bridge. As you point out, why? Why did he not take him to sickbay? Did he get lost? You can imagine Doctor McCoy saying " I am sorry Scotty, I cold probably have saved him if you had brought him straight to sickbay instead of taking him to the bridge.Look, I know that this was done for dramatic effect, but we had just had a space battle, wasn't this dramatic enough? Also, why does Uhuru react with horror at seeing the cadet, would a 25 year space veteran react in such an anguished way?Keep up the good work.
Well Sarek makes a comment that leads the audience to believe it is a rare thing not done since ages past, so it's quite possible she simply didnt know about it...
Very well put together. I do, however, have a few issues. Saavik is half Romulan, according to the director's guide, so displays of emotion, though likely frowned on by her mentor, Captain Spock, would not be unexpected. As for the planetary discrepancy, nice catch.
Im sorry but a directors guide is not canon... please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Saavik and not she is listed as a full vlucan because Myer removed all references because he felt a tear from a full vulcan would be more dramatic...
In "Day of the Dove", Kirk was accused of killing a kligon crew and they were made captives so Kirk lied to Savvak and she learned on Genesis in Search for Spock
during saavik scenes in the Kobyshy maru they are not in the bridge. its a Simulator at the academy, that's why science station is not at the same position as in tmp. also she is not completely Vulcan she is half romulan
First, The science station is in the same position as the simulator and NOT as TMP on the Enterprise and also you are incorrect about Saavik! Please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Saavik and note she is listed as vulcan because Myer removed all references from his movie feeling that her crying as a full vulcan would be more powerful to the audience!
I suppose there could be any number of reasons why Khan would know something about Klingon proverbs. I suspect that a super-intelligent person with the capacity to consume and assimilate large amounts of knowledge quickly might have felt it a good idea to voraciously research the history and advancements that took place since he went into suspended animation. I would likewise expect historical reference materials accessible on a Federation star ship would include a for amount of references to Klingons (and Vulcans, Romulans, or any other alien races that figure prominently). If I nodded off for a few hundred years and woke up to find that humanity has not only contacted numerous extraterrestrial races in the interim, but interacted with them considerably, I'd be awfully curious to learn about them. Besides, Kirk may have seen fit to provide Khan and his minions encyclopedic reference and reading materials to occupy them while settling in on Seti Alpha 5. Or maybe he learned about it from his wife, who was a Starfleet officer before being exiled along with Khan. As for the Klingon proverb being a Sicilian proverb: if the Klingons think that Shakespeare's plays were a product of their cultural/artistic heritage as opposed to that of humans (as indicated by Gen. Chang in Star Trek VI), who knows what other cultural affectations of human origin they've appropriated? I suspect that the history and goings-on of La Cosa Nostra would have quite a bit of appeal to a race whose culture prizes strength, martial prowess, ruthless cunning, and absolute loyalty unto to death to one's master. The nagging question that **I** always had is this: during their initial skirmish with Reliant, Kirk allows Reliant to just mosey on up into phaser range while Enterprise pretty much has its pants around its ankles in terms of its ability to defend itself. Even after Saavik observed that this was a violation of basic Starfleet protocol, and even after Spock indicated that the reason Reliant gave for their ability to communicate was bogus. Yeah, way to go, Mr. Salty Veteran Starship Commander. Minutes later, Kirk comes off like Trafalgar when he uses an arcane bit of starship engineering trivia to punk the Reliant and high-tail it out of there to temporary safety. This being a gambit that Spock himself clearly thought of because he knew what Kirk was about to tell Saavic/Sulu to do before Kirk even said it; did Spock get any props for that?. And the fate of both the ship and all of its crew were still very much in peril...because of Kirk's **BONEHEADED MISTAKE.**
The evasive starboard , is to swing the ENT around 180° to bring her behind reliant. Also the bridge was the likely target and the engineering hull has more armour ,along with a open space profile
Im sorry but that simply isnt correct... We know what an evasive starboard looks like from ALL the times it is used in the series... And we can see exactly what it's doing here, presenting a larger target for the reliant! It was a bad call! And to say that the Bridge was the target requires the operation of Khans mind, it certainly doesnt look close to what the target was... What should I believe? What my eye see or what you imagine?
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios tbh at the ranges we talking Khan was targetting that location being the torps are there. I'm sure not turning was going to be much worse you don't play chicken with starships. up or down would give even a bigger target. So yes it was the right call.
TriAngulum Audio Studios (Edited for clarity and logical flow of ideas) I have noticed that throughout this movie, Sulu kept firing on *Reliant's* bridge (or at least kept aiming for it). Khan hit almost everything else on *Enterprise* but the bridge. No sense in killing Kirk: there goes *Genesis*. Khan's initial attack, which was well-thought out, attacked sensitive parts of *Enterprise*, crippling her initially; but, as Khan began losing control of the situation, commenced ordering fire but not directed at any strategic locations on *Enterprise*. Khan also couldn't get *Reliant's* main power back on-line, which Kirk immediately called for after *Enterprise* got socked (and never let up on Scotty about getting restored). Khan's failure in that regard and Kirk's success helped to tip the balance towards Kirk. Also, as Sulu repeatedly aims for *Reliant's* bridge, Chekov aims for other strategic parts of *Reliant* -- the rollbar/torpedo launcher, and then a nacelle. Those strategic shots inflicted damage to *Reliant* in a way that Sulu's shots didn't -- causing lethal damage versus merely lessening her capabilities.
@@waltertomaszewski1083 that's the difference between a skeleton crew and a full complement - shit gets done! And I guess Chekov was a pro shot. seems it would have been wiser to order roll starboard rather than evasive starboard, because they could have returned fire and avoided fire more effectively, and still avoided collision
Pretty good! I like your critique. The way you were able to see things in such specific detail leads me to believe that you are a true fan! Great work! It's amazing to think that even with many inaccuracies many fans consider this to be the best example of Star Trek proper. In my opinion that just goes to show how great the storytelling was and the role it plays overall in a film.
Thank you very much :) Dont get me wrong, I love Trek, and these mistakes I found in no way diminish any of the Movies or episodes... But its fun sometimes just to look at things objectively and add something to the world of Trek!
Why does everyone except Admiral Kirk lurch forward when entering the Mutara Nebula?
Because he's fricking Admiral Kirk that's why :>
LOL
This is the correct answer!
the girdle Shatner was wearing prevented him from moving at the waist
The nebula lurched forward because it was entered by Admiral Kirk.
Haha haha! !!
Walter Koenig joked that Chekov took too long in the toilet while Khan was waiting for him to leave. That’s how Khan never forgot his face.
The reason Kirk doesn't use the transporter to board the Enterprise is because of tradition. When a captain boards his ship for the first time, he doesn't use the transporter. He uses a shuttle to view his ship for the first time from the outside. This was established in TMP when Kirk uses a shuttle because of a transporter malfunction, the one where a Vulcan is turned into a mass of goo. I suppose he decided to start (extend?) this tradition on boarding the new Enterprise in WOK after the events of TMP. The tradition survived to Picard's time. He uses a shuttle the very first time he boards the Enterprise D.
Its a great theory!
Let's be real here though, one its recycled footage from TMP, (hence docking in the secodary hull vs the torpedo bay), and two its so we can have a glamour shot of that beautiful Constitution class refit beauty that is the Enterprise!
:-)
Besides, it wasn't a new Enterprise, it was the same refit 1701 that Kirk had been flying around in since TMP. Maybe Kirk just liked seeing his ship from the outside before cruising around inside it for years at a time? He likely doesn't get to do that too often. An admiral is allowed to have a few luxuries in life.
@@flyboymb
Yes, I misspoke saying it was new. But it was a refit and with so many changes, virtually a new ship. If I was captain, I'd treat it as new and do an external tour. He probably had not been on it for many months, likely more than a year, since the refit started. Maybe the tradition is to use a shuttle when 1) first time on new ship, 2) first time on a refit, even if same ship, 3) first time since being promoted, 4) whenever I feel like it, damn it, I'm an Admiral now.
This tradition by the way was mentioned in the first Next Gen book if I recall correctly. In it, Picard is thinking something like, "why not simply transport aboard? It has become tradition to use a shuttle to board your ship the very first time since Kirk did it following a transporter malfunction". That's not mentioned in the series but he is shown doing so with Tasha Yar as the navigator. And Archer did it too (with Trip scraping the paint) but only because transporters were not yet trusted. The piping of a captain when boarding his ship is of course an old English naval tradition.
it is also showin in TNG, Picard also was shuttled to both Enterprise D and E, in the two parter where Q has Picard jumping through three time periods, when he's in the past it begins prior to boarding the Galaxy class and Q is his pilot. If memory serves Janeway mentoined her shuttle trip to Voyager to Chakotay.
Love the show, I know you only look at what is seen on screen but some of the Saavik stuff can be explained with stuff that was cut from the original script. These cuts did make Saavik seem inconsistent due to her shedding a tear and saying "damn". Basically in the script it called for her to be only half-Vulcan like Spock, but unlike Spock she was to be also half-Romulan. You can find the deleted scene on youtube.
Indeed, when the Wrath of Khan came out I read Vonda Mcintryre's novelization and that's explained in there as well! Although as you said, I only look at what is canon! And unfortunately as such, she is a very bad Vulcan :P
I would love for her to show up on screen at some point later on and that fact is revealed.. I love the idea of a Half Vulcan/Half Romulan character.... would be great :) I am so glad you keep to a strict definition of canon. Thank you for doing so :)
Indeed, so would I, but sadly, I doubt it will happen :( And you're welcome, though you dont have to thank me for that... Like most Trekkers/ Trekies I have my "head Canon," but when I decided to do these videos I had to set out some rules and that one just seemed to make sense :)
TriAngulum Studios Audio Comics The film never directly states Saavik is 100% Vulcan. Based on her behavior, she sure didn't act that way. So I've always gone by the novel adaption that she was 50% Romulan under Spock's tutelage to control her Romulan side (which may also explain why they switched from Romulans to Klingons in the Kobayashi Maru - so she wasn't facing her own people). However, by STIII, she inexplicably looks (the now Vulcan eyebrows) and acts more like a full Vulcan.
Though those are interesting theories, and make sense, it simply isnt supported by canon. And canon is what is seen on screen not what isnt! Ive read that the novelizations of ALL the Trek movies and you are right, that is a huge point in the book! But that should have been stating in the movie to explain away any mistakes, since they did that with Spock all the time! Plus it would give more depth to the character! As for what she was facing in the Kobayashi Maru test, it would actually make more sense to have her face her own people. After all she wouldnt be able to avoid them in real life and Starfleet would want to see how she would react! The Truth is though it was supposed to be Romuilans used, but to save money they opted last minute to change it to Klingons so they could use the footage from TMP!
I recall that Scotty brings the body to the bridge because of a scene that was cut from the movie where he talks about how proud he is to have him there. The body was that of his nephew(?) who he had managed to get posted to the Enterprise as his first post. He's carrying his dead nephew in shock, disbelief and guilt.
Insted of sickbay? Which his nephew ends up in still alive and dies in sickbay?...
Maybe the Bridge was located between Engineering and Sick Bay and somebody pushed the Turbolift button on the Bridge. "Uh, sorry Scotty, I'll take the next one." hehe
Although not always accurate you can make the argument that Chekov was on the Enterprise during 'Space Seed' by the fact that 'Catspaw' has a stardate that places it as happening earlier. Given he has his wig on backwards in 'Catspaw' he was perhaps demoted until he showed that he could do the simple things.
I think the reason Kirk was in the travel pod was that it was an inspection. I would think the inspection would include the outside of the ship.
This is the greatest film ever made. No further discussion or comments required. Thank you.
as far as villains go Khan made 1 appearance in TOS but Harry Mudd made 2 I'd say giving him priority to make a film appearance.
considering the success of II Shatner should have scrapped his search for God story and given us Star Trek V: The Wrath of Mudd
How did the Enterprise ever get to Regula 1 on impulse power? They were 12 hours 43 minutes away at warp 5 before they watched the Genesis video. Take away maybe 45 minutes but it they're still at least 12 hours away at warp 5. Also why were they going warp 5? Wouldn't warp 7 or better be warranted for a "emergency" situation.
At 5:07 when Chekov and Captain Terrell are discussing sensor readings, the display panel to the left of Chekov's head clearly shows a cross section of the engineering hull of a Constitution class starship, something the Reliant doesn't have. Then, as the camera pans left to follow the actors, you see more of the same panel showing a front and top down view of the Reliant's saucer section, but without any of the extra hull that covers the rear of the Miranda class' saucer. I'm guessing it was the Enterprise's bridge set that was reused.....
Good catch! And yes, it was a reuse of the Ent Bridge!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I seem to recall in the commentary for the DVD they say the Reliant was originally going to be an older version of the same class as Enterprise, but they decided to change its look since it would be confusing for the audience during the battle scenes if both ships looked the same. The model work would have been done after the actors and sets were filmed, so too late to change the display.
@@lesigh1749 The model work was being done at the same time as it was being filmed... And yes the first draft it was going to be... However, it was quickly changed and the design was actually supposed to as you see it but upside down...
Yep. And Shatner and Montelban ever saw each other during the entire shoot from what I've heard. It makes sense to re-use the same bridge set, since they look about the same from the exterior, but it's too bad they didn't record a different console display for when shooting the Reliant's p.o.v. Surprised the new remastered version didn't fix that with some careful cropping and pasting.
My question is how the crew of the Reliant is so stupid that they don't know that an entire planet just disappeared. Basically, they forgot how to count. There were X number of planets 20 years ago in TOS, then there is X-1 in TWOK
Yeah that's hard for me to swallow as well...
Not to mention the long range sensors and their science officer should have picked up on that as they came out of warp in the system.
I wonder one think even more: Why did they consider Ceti Alpha at all? Have they forgotten, WHO they put there?
Acme. Nipp-on-AiR well, maybe they did remember who was on Ceti Alpha 5.
I mean, I’d call this a “kill 2 birds (or maybe like 73) with one stone” moment.
Think about it, the Genesis device didn’t turn a barren planet into a thriving planet, it took the matter of a nebula, just a giant ball of hydrogen and helium, and collapsed it into a star system, just to create a single planet with lifeforms.
That thing would have taken out the entire system if they set it off.
The torpedo bay number 2 was severely damaged after Khan hit it and killing one crew member and yet during Spock's funeral, it is somehow it is all repaired
Also maybe worth noting is that "Torp Bay 2" is on the port side, ostensibly where Kirk's shuttlepod was meant to have docked (production errors aside). The port-side torpedo bay was hit in the middle of 'great-strategist'-Kirk's evasive move to starboard in the Battle, thus presumably destroying Torp Bay 2. Yet by the Funeral scene, the same Torp Bay 2 is still pristine and undamaged.
That is an EXCELLENT point! Great catch!
It's also funny that the portside torpedo bay would be numbered "2" to begin with...you'd think it would be "1" and the starboard side would be "2"...unless maybe that stuff is counted clockwise from the bow, then I guess it's right....nevermind.
Good breakdown. One thing of note, I believe the evasive starboard was to avoid collision, since it is a more of a nautical maneuver than a space combat. The overturn was probably just a in the heat of combat mistake. Luckily Enterprise still was able to bring her port phaser banks to bear and score a direct hit on the bridge. It is typical for naval vessels that are head on to turn starboard and pass port to port to avoid collision. Although it wouldn't apply here since a majority of Enterpise's weapons face forward, it was fairly typical for surface ships to broadside other surface ships in older engagements. This allowed to bring all guns to bear, instead of just the forward ones. I do understand that leaves a greater target, but it would a risk-benefit scenario. I believe i read somewhere that they approached the combat scenes with traditional naval surface ship tactics and speed to make it more dramatic, since a ship to ship space battle would occur at a much faster pace. (See TNG space battles.)
I like the fact that Kirk orders phasers on stun and McCoy has his set to vaporize. He's not taking any chances no matter what Kirk says. I know it's almost certainly an error, but it works for me.
Even when I was young I thought it was weird that the Klingon Neutral Zone was a sphere. All I can think is that the entire Klingon Empire is encircled by the UFP.
LOL that's what It portrays but of course we know that's not true from various other canon maps we've seen on the show over the years!
And a perfect sphere at that btw :P
To me, since I first saw this film in the theater at age 13, that sphere representation is the image of the Enterprise's entry point into the Zone. It probably indicates the sensor's maximum 3-dimensional scanning radius of that particular area of space. Since the trio of D-7M K'tinga's closely patrolling their side of the Zone's Border didn't immediately appear on it, I always assumed that they had been cloaked, and in 'Stealth Mode'. Quite possibly, the Klingon's were setting a trap after having faked a 'distress signal' from a Federation-registered Freighter. They were known to do exactly this sort of thing, As seen in the TOS Ep: 'Friday's Child'. This has always seemed to me to be what actually happened in the Simulation, as Uhura reports immediately after entering Klingon Space that the K.M.'s signal was lost, and the ship, (or any wreckage), was never seen. Then the D-7M trio suddenly shows up, apparently out of nowhere! Just an old, Gen-X, Mega-Trekker's Two Federation Credit's worth.
Perhaps the sphere was used as a foreshadowing of Spock's photon torpedo coffin? They were identical in shape.
Perhaps it was due to it being a simulation? Maybe they didn't want to model a huge tract of space for what was actually a very short mission for most commanders involved? Many military scenarios often require some creative 'funneling' by the facilitators to keep everybody in the same area.
Walter Koenig himself said that Chekov kept Khan waiting for the rest room in Space Seed. More than enough reason for Khan to want revenge. LOL.
And Vulcans are full of shit. They claim to be only logical, but they re VERY emotional. Logic is a discipline.
And don't forget, Saavik is half romulan. This means, she has it much harder dealing with her emotions than the average Vulcan. Perhabs a reason, Spock is her protege: he knows, how she feels inside as a half-human/half-vulcan
@@acmenipponair
Romulans & Vulcans are the same species, but hold different philosophies.
@@OOTurok They are not exactly the same species. After the split they developed differently. If you look at a Vulcan and a Romulan there are distinctive differences in physiology as well as medical make up. They are similar but different. They have evolved differently therefore no longer the same.
@@Kurbash5668
The differences between Vulcans & Romulans is the equivalent of the differences between the Caucasiod, Africanoid, & Mogoloid human races.
Furthermore... the Vulcans have not evolved to have no emotions. Vulcans choose to adopt a philosophy of emotion suppression & to govern themselves through logic & reason, which they adopted, about 2,000 years before TNG era.
During this Time Of Awakening... Vulcan society split & the dissidents, who were against Surak's philosophy, abandoned Vulcan, & colonized Romulus, becoming the Romulan people.
The Vulcans & Romulans are only separated from each other by 2,000 years. They are both different races of the same species.
@@OOTurok There is many physical differences in the two races. I did not touch much on the emotions because I know for a fact that it was a choice to supress not an evolutionary change. They are different completely due to evolutionary changes due to conditions of the two world are completely different. Vulcans are soft crown capped unlike Romulans who have protrusions of their skulls. 2000 is still enough time to make the evolutionary changes due to the 2 different types of worlds. This can force a change due to environments.
TMP is at least two and a half years after the conclusion of the five year mission, as dialogue in TMP establishes that Kirk has been Chief of Starship Operations for the past two and a half years. The 18 month refit Scotty and Decker oversaw must have begun a year after Kirk's promotion.
To be fair. McCoy IS always hanging out on the bridge hounding Kirk. Itd be a fair bet Scotty was looking for McCoy on the bridge.
That doesnt make sense... Cause even if McCoy was on the bridge during the Red Alert, what could he possibly do to help someone with those extensive medical issues... Thats REALLY REALLY stretching...
I've always wondered whether Spock was subjected to the same delta particle radiation that Captain Pike was crippled by? He certainly showed the signs of skin degradation that likely led to Pike's scarring and we do know that the delta radiation comes from warp core reactions. Only a Vulcan could see how such radiation had affected his mentor of so many years and yet step into a chamber full of it without a second thought.
Saavik is part Romulan too I think.
There is no canon evidence to support that... Though originally she was intended to be, Nick Myer removed that from the movie in order to have a full vulcan tear to have more impact at the end of the movie...
According to the Star Trek 2 novel that you can read she was part romulan. and after Spock died she went to his cabin before they blast them off and wept
Yes but novels are not canon...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Just looking to movie canon, I'd cite both STtMP and ST5. The purging of emotion is a discipline which Vulcans undertake. There is no reason to assume that all Vulcans automatically achieve this by some given point in their lives. Additional evidence of this is Sybok, who outright rejected the discipline. It may look odd to the audience - especially casual observers - but nothing about it goes against canon. And it may not seem like retconning to cite a later movie, but Sybok doesn't change anything about the canon. He just provides a better illustration of it.
@@distractionbeast778 True Sybok made a conscious choice about disregarding those emotionless disciplines... However there is no indication here the Saavik did... In fact theres every indication that like almost EVERY other Vulcan we've seen that she in fact lives as the status quo... Were constantly told in every series that Vulcan repress there emotions, thus her shedding a tear is tantamount to an emotional outburst... For that reason the mistake stands...
Movie posters for this film shows the Enterprise shooting phasers at Regula One for no good reason.
It has been speculated that the odd scene with Scotty in the turbolift is the result of having to rewrite Spock's death scene after word of it was leaked. The idea being that Spock was originally supposed to die on the bridge, adding to the gravity of Kahn's threat. One bit of evidence for this theory comes from the fact that Spock doesn't join the away team as he traditionally would have. Instead having a new Vulcan character serving in his place.
The Kobayashi Maru simulation takes place at Starfleet in a generic bridge. The fact that Captain Spock's trainees are testing is perhaps the reason that Saavik states that the vessel is the U.S.S. Enterprise.
It has always bugged me that there was A FUCKING RAT ON THE SPACE STATION!
Why is a capital ship like the Enterprise being used for a cadet training cruise? Why is Khan such an unknown to Terrell? When entering the Ceti Alpha system, wouldn't the staff have naturally looked up the history of the area and realized, oh boy, some bad dudes in this system? And wouldn't anyone have noticed right away that besides there being a planet missing in the system, there also seems to be a lot of planetary debris floating around? And in the battle with Reliant and the view screens are down or erratic, wouldn't it make sense to dispatch some actual crew members fore, aft, port and starboard to -- oh, I dunno -- LOOK OUT A WINDOW and report back to the bridge what they're seeing?
Well over 10 years have passed since Vger by this point, and its logical to assume that being the first refit vessel design flaws cropped up to make the vessel less reliable then the ones that come after her... Also he actual age would be about 40 years old at that point... So there's that... It could also be that Starfleet does that occasionally and temporarily with Starfleet ships, rotating them out until they decide what to do with them... Ive always had a huge prob with them stumbling over Khan... It's clearly a plot device... As for the window thing, that's also a common question I ask myself... Great catches!
That's a plausible explanation for using the Enterprise as a cadet ship...yet even by today's standards, 40 years old does not age a vessel out of first-line service. In fact, according to The Making of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry intended the Enterprise to already be 40 years old at the time of TOS, as he wanted the ship to "have some history." But more to the point, when the Reliant goes missing, Star Fleet only has a cadet ship (Enterprise) available to investigate. And in ST:TMP the only ship protecting the Earth is one in drydock (Enterprise again). This suggests there is quite a shortage of capital ships, which hardly justifies using one of them as a cadet ship. But...I could see something close to your point. Maybe the Enterprise is back at HQ for routine refit, crew rotation and etc., and the opportunity is taken to use it for this purpose while a new crew is waiting assignment. And that the senior officers on board would be drafted into some training curricular as instructors, as part of their own periodic requalification.@@TriAngulumAudioStudios
Its as good a theory as any I suppose... I always have a huge problem with the Fed Core of worlds NEVER having ships in range!
Starfleet uses their important ships for cadet training quite often... remember Valiant in DS9 ... that was very much new ship, given that the lead ship of the class, Defiant was put into service only couple of years prior
Great canon proof to back up the theory, well done!
one little thing, not a huge thing, is Carol having time or taking the effort to change into casual clothes (from her science uniform) after beaming down to the Genesis Cave/Regula after fleeing for her life.
The hard to starboard was two fold, 1 so they didn't collide and 2 any other direction would have exposed more of the ship.
Down would expose the bridge, up would put more of the ship in line with the torpedo bay, port would expose undamaged side. Starboard was the most logical choice.
Please don't smoke on the bridge. LOL
Nice errors. By the way, the "error" with the star dates is easy explainable: they just left out the first digit. Yes, in TOS and TMP everything is four digits. But that's just conveniance. Like we before 2000 always wrote '86 instead of 1986. The 71xx in Movie 2 is 10 years AFTER the 74xx in Movie 1. They just left out the first digit.
7:00 The turbolift was probably summoned by McCoy, hence his complaining about how long it took to arrive.
Another error are the schematics on the Reliant bridge also show the original TOS Enterprise deck plans
Indeed, I realized after I forgot to include that! Good catch!
The reason that is because the 2 bridges are the same set just redressed the chairs on the RELIANT are from the ENTERPRISE bridge in the THE MOTION PICTURE .the bridge set was made up like pie wedges and by changing the slices they made a different bridge the command area and helm/navigation station as well as weapons station stayed the same even the tubolift on both ships are identical except ENTERPRISE had 2 lifts and the RELIANT only had 1 lift on the bridge and their were different colors. Also when the this film was first written the RELIANT was to look like the ENTERPRISE but it was changed because the audience would not be able to tell which one they looking at in the battle .
We all know the real reason but as these videos say @@andysahs1599it's all about in universe canon and explanations, thus it IS a mistake!
I enjoy all of these discussions and about myths or errors or mistakes excetera excetera excetera but what you can't deny even with all of that it was a damn good enjoyable movie. 😁
For sure! I only do this for the love of Trek :)
I love all the research you did.
Thaan you so much!
The grates absolutely make sense and it was a great shot. It's the most military part of the ship, and if those grates were motorized they could become stuck. Crewmen assigned to clear them (with excellent choreography) will never break down before a battle like mechanical systems could. BTW I'm binging this video series and loving it, thank you!
Well thank you Im glad you like it!
Then hire wood a fully automated connie enterprise rig for red alert battle ready status? I'm not saying is a good scene shot, but again.
Huh?
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I think he's asking how the Enterprise, which was automated in ST III, would have readied itself for battle against the BoP? I suppose it could be assumed that the grates were removed by Scotty on the off chance they needed to launch something, but then again Scotty said that the system was never meant to be used for battle. Maybe the grates were just removed after they entered Spacedock and the crew lucked out?
Except that in Enterprise we see that the loading process is completely automated... It make no logical sense to head back to this kind on manual labor... Also this video is on Trek 2, but you make a great point about Trek 3 I hadnt considered...
The reason Kahn thought it was a Klingon proverb is he only had time to do a quick Google search of cool sounding phrases before meeting the enterprise and couldn't fact check it
LOL that MUST be it LOL
Kirk wasn't nervous, he was reacting to Spock's emotion towards Savik.
That doesnt make sense... Why would McCoy offer him a tranq then? A drug that calms down a person?
You know I never noticed before but @4:50 why does it look like on the top left display that there is a Constitution style saucer with JJ Constitution style nacelles?
So far you've made all the same points I did after just recently buying and watching the bluray box set and never noticing all the inconsistencies after a lifetime of viewings!:)
It's weird how that happens right?
I heard somewhere that the star dates of the older movies were actually their release dates - i.e. month day year - but I'm not entire sure of this.
This is just a myth, as some could, and some dont... But since there's no official canon that can explain ALL stardates and how they work, well it's really could NEVER be verified... Only hypothesized about...
The whole point of Khan's capture of Chekhov and Tyrell is that the meeting was happenstance. Khan didn't know that they had transported down but caught them rather accidentally running out of the Botany Bay. Of course, Chekhov and Tyrell should have called for an emergency beam out at that point, but this may be explained by Tyrell's ignorance of Khan and Chekhov not being able to fully convince Tyrell of the danger that Khan posed.
You are also missing the humor of Star Trek in general. In Star Trek VI: the Undiscovered Country, there were several human sayings that seemed appropriated by the other alien races. Spock claimed that "only Nixon could go to China" was an old Vulcan proverb (which got a lot of yucks in the theater when I watched it). As well, Chang claimed that Shakespeare was much better "in the original Klingon!" There was also Dr. McCoy in this movie saying to Kirk in this movie "Beware of Romulans bearing gifts" which was a turn on the phrase referring to Greeks.
Also, in Space Seed, the episode made notice of Khan's keen intellect and how he was able to deduce 23rd century technology so quickly (he being from the 20th Century). It may very well be explained that Khan didn't just learn about the Enterprise's systems.
Except what we see on screen doesnt support what you're saying. Khan and ALL his people are merely standing outside waiting, that is not happenstance! Sorry the mistake stands!
Still this is the best Star Trek movie overall I mean yes it has its flaws but sometimes you have to appreciate drama over logic :-)
Oh for sure! I dont nit pick apart these movies and shows because I hate them, I do it because I love them and want to have some fun with them!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Indeed :D
No smoking. That made my day.
Gene Roddenberry made Nick Mayer take the "No Smoking" sign down, but I didn't realize it still made it into a few shows. Mayer wanted to make the Star Trek world more relatable so he added things like that and the janitor.
I would be surprised if Gene made anyone do anything by this point, given that he had lost all control over Trek at the end of TMP... Shatner explains in his autobiography that Roddenberry had been given the ceremonial title of Exec Producer but had lost all power...
Great segment ! You give a good narration . Savik is emotional because she is half Vulcan (thank-you Captain Spock) and half Romulan (thank-you female Romulan commander from TOS episode Enterprise incident) Commander Scott got to the bridge by MacGivering the elevator . The dead crewman was his nephew Peter Prestridge . ETC ,ETC, ETC. (11 November 2018 1940 hours)
Thank you very much... A lot of people believe that about Saavik, since it was included in the original script... Though if that was true she was half Rom, Quarter Vulcan, Quarter Human... However there is no canon evidence to support it... In fact on memory Alpha, which only deals with canon, she is listed as full vulcan. In reality the director removed the reference to half rom because he felt a tear coming from a full vulcan would be more impactful... Macgivering the Turbolift is one thing, but going right by sickbay to end up on the bridge doesnt seem plausible from a reality stand point, great for story telling though!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios True that , it would have been more "logical" to have gone to sick bay instead of the bridge . (11 November 2018 2030 hours)
Yeah just a bit :P
@@susanesquer1520 No it wouldn't. Scotty's nephew got hurt before his next line cue. Scotty knew how important his performances were to him in life, so he honored what would have been his nephew's last wish - to get back in front of the camera. Unfortunately, the camera was waiting up at the bridge, and Scotty had no way of knowing if his nephew would survive until it traveled to Sickbay. The big difficulty was climbing all those ladders up to A deck (or deck 78? lol) with a cadet on his back.
John Michel HA! He just used rocket boots to deck 78 then only had a deck or two more in the primary hull to get above C deck!
You make some very good points. I would also like to point out the size of the communicators. They are much bigger and bulkier than the ones in the original series. Wouldn't they be smaller? Also, why didn't Spock wear a radiation suit? I'm sure they would've had some nearby the reactor room. But at the same time, Spock's death was, and still is, one of the most emotional moments ever seen in the franchise. It still has me scratching my head though when I actually think about it. His death could've easily been prevented.
Great Point, the comms should be smaller really... The radiation suit could be chalked up to Spock just not having time to put one on, after calculating how much time it would take him to get the mains back online...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Not a good point at all my Nokia 6210 was much small then my Galaxy 8, that being because it can do so much more.
It's a GREAT point... As the screen size of a phone might change to be larger, however the internal components are smaller...
The communicators they were using were combat communicators and made to withstand more damage. Spock probably did not have time to put on a suit. His logic may have told him saving others was more important than his own safety.
What canon source can you cite that supports that claim in regards to the communicator?
When Kirk leaves the turbolift, after he and McCoy receive the news that Carol Marcus is on the line, he's wearing a gold Timex watch on his left wrist.
FYI - In the, "Novel", version, it's mentioned that Saavik is "Half Vulcan & Half Romulan." It's a shame that a scene w/Kirk & Spock in which Spock mentions this particular detail was deleted.
Indeed which is why its a mistake since in canon, shes a full vulcan!
@Gerry C Thats not how canon works... Canon is anything seen on screen in episode or Movie form branded as Trek by the owners of Trek. As such deleted scenes, novels vid games, rumors, what the actor says is not canon... Please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Canon to better understand canon, thank you
@Gerry C Im sorry but Memory Alpha deals with canon, and I personally have agreed with this analysis, you can be as stubborn as you want but the Mistake stands as canon is clearly defined and an explanation is given so please refer to the link above to better understand Saavik and why Half Rom is NOT canon.... Also what Alley says about her character is unimportant as that is also NOT canon, she could say she was a jelly donut but all that matters is what is seen in the movie!
Nice job 👍🏻
Just to throw something in though, the “prepare for battle” scene is a superb sequence. Totally in keeping with the idea of a classic sea-battle.
Follows with the ships getting alongside and throwing broadsides at each other, when even fighter jets of the 70s had missiles with a 100 mile range. Torpedos from the opposite side of the sector isn’t as cinematically exciting, but is seen (of a sort) in the early episodes of The Expanse.
Like your work, keep em coming 👌🏻
Thank you so much :)
It was the Romulan side of Saavik crying, lol...
Im sorry you are incorrect, this is a common myth among Trek fans... Please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Saavik
and note she is listed as vulcan because Myer removed all references
from his movie feeling that her crying as a full vulcan would be more
powerful to the audience!
Smartphones have touch controls that can be used instead of talking to it, the phones don't always recognize voice control. The turbolift probably still has both like in TOS though it has been redesigned for the movie
Hello again, my friend. I caught one and not sure if anyone mentioned it. Anyway, at the part where Khan activates the Genesis Device, the timer says 999 and counts down. When Spock monitors it and informs Kirk, David Marcus comments, “encoded 4 minutes.” Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t 999 seconds approximately 17 minutes and 8 seconds?
The turbo lift question can be explained away given the time in-between the attack and Spock's comment that they don't work below C Deck. It has been at least 2 hours since the Reliant damaged the Enterprise in the initial attack, and when Scotty first uses the turbo lift to get to the bridge. Why he choose to take him there is anybody's guess. The movie making logic is that it serves as a dramatic reveal. The in universe explanation could be that Scotty was simply in shock because his nephew had nearly been killed. Anyway, with regard to the turbo lift not working...by the time Kirk gets back aboard, Spock tells him that they have "partial main power", when before they only had "auxiliary power". This means that the crew was able to make some repairs to the ship by the time Kirk and company beamed back aboard from Regula. It is only then that Spock mentions to Kirk that the turbo lifts do not work below C Deck. It is entirely possible that during the repair process it was necessary for damage control teams and engineering crews to re-route power from some systems in order to shore up others. Later in the film, Scotty says that the energizer is bypassed like a Christmas tree, implying that re-routing power was a common short cut for restoring power to damaged systems. It would totally make sense if the turbo lifts (a non critical system) were taken off line in order to re-route power to more critical systems (like the impulse engines, or phasers). So I don't really consider this one a mistake.
Im sorry I dont buy it... During an emergency it is even MORE critical that a ship has a working form of transportation to get injured to sickbay, crew men to area where needed etc... Plus I dont think the turbolifts would take an amount of power to run that would be helpful in diverting it to any system.... ALSO why then keep them working to C deck? Surely you would turn them right off if your theory was accurate....
the Picard show retroactively makes the no smoking sign ok with Raffi and her camping habit
See ALWAYS a silver lining :)
You've caught many of the goofs I would have pointed out here, except as noted previously. But another thing is just how convenient it is that the only native life forms still alive on Ceti Alpha happen to be useful for mind controlling humans... As for Khan quoting Klingon proverbs (which aren't really Klingon proverbs but oh, well), that used to bother me too but I guess one could assume that his crew was left with a library that included enough Klingon information for him to acquire this knowledge while reading in exile.
Thank you so much! You are right it is convenient, but no necessarily a mistake since Khan says only remaining indigenous lifeform, and it could be remaining thanks to his efforts... Though it's obviously a plot device :P As to a library with Klingon Literature, I would find that hard to believe, since there has been no obvious canon evidence that the Klingons would have shared their media with the Federation at any point... In Fact in DSC the Feds dont even have an updated Map of Qu'Nos a century after Archer was there...
While not a mistake per se, I consider the presence of a "mind control" creature to be lazy writing, as I consider most examples of deux ex machina to be. As for why it, alone, happens to still be alive though, well, you have provided a pretty nifty explanation, i.e., that Khan (likely recognizing it's ability to control his own people and maybe even already having used it for that effect) made a special effort to keep it alive. Regarding Klingon literature in a Star Trek data base...I still think it is plausible. Cold Wars heat and thaw periodically. By Star Trek VI, the Klingons seemed to have ample access to Earth literature and the Federation had a Klingon dictionary. Each knew the other's languages. Some exchange of literature seems likely. During the U.S. and U.S.S.R. Cold War there were a lot of cultural exchanges but other internal secrets remained secrets. @@TriAngulumAudioStudios
@@lynnpoint6395 but Shakespeare was really a Klingon in the Trek universe. And Vulcans were the elves of earth mythology.
You forgot, in the first attack from Reliant... in the counter attack from the Enterprise where they fire several short phaser shots at Reliant onto the top hull section...the first strafe makes a damage point on the dorsal area of the hull and the second shot destroys the Aft Warp Nacelle or the warp control housing at the top of the Reliant hull gets destroyed. You can clearly see this happen.
However, when you see Reliant limp away moving away from the camera with the camera looking at it's aft or back section you can clearly see there is no damage that has been done from the phaser fire...
Although no mention of smoking, apart from Quark surprisingly being against it in 'Little Green Men' in DS9 there is a no salt sucking sign on the promenade. Salt sucking was introduced in 'TNG Gambit' and shown in the background of scenes set in the Occupation. I assume originally it was a hat tip to 'The Man Trap'
When figuring stardate discrepancies, have you factored in Daylight Saving Time?
Of course, dont you? :P
Good video. Some of it does have explanation that resolves what you've addressed, but overall you did well.
Thank you and if you have any explanations please bring them forward :)
I want to thank you for answering my comments with respect unlike some of the "other" sites if I ask a question or make an innocent comment I am called a"dumb-ass cunt" by the guy hosting the site . Thank-you for not disrespecting me right from the start . Much respect ,sir (12 November 2018 0800 hours)
No problem! The goal of this channel is to create a safe non toxic environment for people to discuss different aspects of Trek... That being said, people who come in here and are just rude or hateful or are stubborn for the sake of stubbornness get shown the door...
Why did the eel leave Chekov's brain? It was starving!
Saavik is crying because she’s sad. Vulcans are not void of emotion; they suppress them. She just watched Kirk give the most emotional speech he would ever give and she teared up. Anyone who doesn’t at that scene is god damn monster!
Yeah no... Vulcans are taught to suppress their emotions, not only would it be extremely odd for a Vulcan to cry, but completely disrespectful to a mentor who strives for no outward emotion at all... This was done purely for dramatic effect as confirmed by Nick Myer, thus it IS a mistake and the mistake stands!
Why does the torpedo that the Reliant fires at the Enterprise from one of it's rear tubes leave the tube at an angle that would only be possible if the tube could articulate/pivot?
Torpedos have guidance systems, thus it's possible for a torpedo to be fired from aft and change it's direction to hit it's target!
Very nice. here it is 2018 and smoking has been banned on aircraft for years so why would they still have to have a sign on the bridge of the Enterprise in the 23rd century?
Why would they indeed? maybe aliens smoke?
How many aliens got to the bridge prior to TNG days? Nearly zero. 😁
Even 1 alien smoker was enough :P
In the 23rd century tobacco has been genetically engineered to be not only harmless but to actually be good for you. So much so that they had to ban it on the bridge because nobody could see their panels for the smoke. Also with all that smoke about, nobody knew which panel was blowing up.
Chris Arseneault, I think they mean no smoking when your on fire from Exploding Consoles....🤔😱👍🏻
Very good video. I never really noticed the blood stain on Kirk's bib changing places until you pointed it out. The other stuff I knew about for years(seriously, when did Khan ever have time to read up on Klingon proverbs? While he was in Enterprise's sick bay in tos Space Seed maybe?)
In Spock's funeral scene, Actress Kirstie Alley was really crying because the scene was just so sad and they left it in.
Despite all it's flaws, inaccuracies, indescrepencies, and inconsistencies, Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan was still a damn good movie, and arguably the best of the franchise...certainly the most memorable(with maybe the exception of III just because of the self destruct of the Enterprise).
Oh for sure... I do these videos for fun, NEVER to detract from the actual movie... It is one of my all time favorite Trek movies and rightfully so!
The neutral zone is not represented as a sphere, it is represented as a circular tube stretching along the borders as you clearly show at 1:58 to 2:05.
Either way it still doesnt make sense!
Kirk being nervous about Saavik captaining the Enterprise is because he still sees the Enterprise as his ship and he regrets giving up the captain chair for an admiralty. Is it rational? Not especially. But it's very much in character for Kirk.
The grates in the torpedo bay make sense. Though them needing to be manually removed doesn't. Since the torpedoes follow a track through a part of the bay that is set into an indentation in the floor, it makes perfect sense to cover that up when you aren't going to be using it any time soon.
Vulcans are emotional. Extremely so. Their adherence to logic is a discipline, not a natural condition. And like all disciplines, some are better at it than others.
The grates make NO sense as the system is fully automated 100 years before in Enterprise, and having to remove grates everytime you go in to battle is a time waster... It would have been something Starfleet would have realized long before this point in Fed history... It was done for purely dramatic effect in the movie nothing more...
I always interpreted it as Kirk just being excited to be back on the Enterprise as it pulls out of space dock. It had nothing to do with the competence of Savvik or Sulu.
The Ceti Alpha System one makes sense - The Ceti Alpha System was a remote system. Mapping a system and actually exploring it are two very different things. They probably entered the system, saw that there were five planets instead of six, and assumed there always were five and someone made a mistake.
A number of others are questions that actually have pretty easy answers as well, like Khan having a book on Klingons while he was on the planet, or the ship being slightly altered over the years as the crew became more familiar with the ship.
Also, why wouldn't they have grates over the torpedo area? Someone may fall in.
And Vulcans do have emotions, they just restrain them.
That doesnt make sense for a few reasons... First in is not a remote system as in Enterprise the remaining human vessels were able to get there even at low warp... Second, Spock looks up Ceti and gives Kirk info on it in Space Seed, then they go to Khan and drop him off... Do you think they didnt scan the system then? While they were there? It's not like something minor changed... An ENTIRE PLANET is missing, that's something that could NEVER go unnoticed!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Scan, sure - But actually go there and make a detailed survey?
It must have been a remote system, or Khan would never have been able to get away with being left alone there, and anything that Kirk would have gotten from scans of the system while there would have been covered up along with Khan's location.
It's possible that it is near to Earth, but outside of the normal space lanes - This would also explain why it would make a good test site for Genesis, and why The Botany Bay would not have been found by anyone before Kirk's time.
For example - There are small towns on Long Island that are just a stone's throw from New York City that are basically just backwoods nowherevilles that you would not believe are near the most influential city in the world - They aren't near the highways, and so no one heads in that direction.
The Ceti Alpha System could be something similar - Outside of the normal lines of travel where no one really bothers to go.
You dont need a detailed surveys to know how many planets are in a system though... Thats a pretty basic thing...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios To prove conclusively how many planets are in a system, you do. Scanning them from a distance isn't the same thing as actually being there and watching their characteristics. For all they knew, what they thought was Ceti Alpha V may have been a rogue asteroid or a planet that hadn't cleared its orbit, and has now broken up. I'm sure it wasn't the first time they rolled into a system and found it different than the star charts said it was.
LOL No you dont! You have the original scans that were done... Which you also dont know how detailed it was since at the end of Space Seed Spock gives detailed info about CA5's surface, so chances are that a detailed survey was done... Then you have the scans of Enterprise dropping Khan off saying how many planets... You dont need a detailed survey to count large planetary bodies... That makes absolutely no sense at all, thus the mistake stands!
The Klingon proverb - You are right that Khan wouldn't know anything about Klingons, but it fits that it's a "Klingon" proverb. There's a gag where different groups claim something they didn't really create. If I recall, Checkov claims Cinderella was a Russian story. Chancellor Gorkon makes a comment in Undiscovered Country about Shakespeare not being fully appreciated unless it is in its "original Klingon." Now that I think about it, didn't Khan have access to historical records while a "visitor" on the Enterprise? Maybe he read enough before he tried to take over.
Vulcans have emotions, they are are just extreemly supressed. It's vulcan teachings and culture that allow them to act all robotic. So Saavik crying or letting out a curse word doesn't really shock me. It just enhances the weight of the moment.
Correct sir. Logic is a philosophy that they CHOOSE and learn to follow. We know form TNG that Sarek loved Spock because Picard learned this from the mind meld with Sarek.
Good point sir.
Why was no mention made of the Reliant when the Enterprise was ordered to investigate and why would it be surprising that the ship assigned to the Genesis Project be in the vicinity of Regula I?
One thing of note - Saavik is not supposed to be a full on Vulkan, she is supposed to be half Romulan which makes swearing and some level of emotion understandable.
Im sorry you are incorrect... Although she was originally intended to be Half Vulcan that never came to be as Nick Myers felt that her being a FULL Vulcan and shedding a tear would be more powerful... Thus as canon supports, she is FULL Vulcan... Please refer to memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Saavik to better understand Saavik, thank you!
I have a bigger question. Kirk at one point says "This is damn peculiar..." Saavik orders "Energize defence shields..." Since when is raising shields a two step process? You have to energize them then raise them? When you are energize the shields aren't in fact raising them?
She actually says energize defense fields... It's assumed by the proceeding console and graphics that it's an internal security alert type deal...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I realize it's also to move the story along. But when you raise shields. JUST RAISE THEM. (Unless you can't, and can't find the over-ride!)
But it actually has nothing to do with the shields... Yellow alert is merely a heightened state of alert with internal defense systems activated, where as red alert is external defense systems...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Memory Alpha does state though in regards to yellow alert: In this status, a ship's defense fields were energized, and/or the deflector shields were brought to full power, but the weapons systems remained off-line. (TOS: "A Taste of Armageddon"; "The Lights of Zetar"; Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home). In this situation unless specifically ordered to by Kirk there is no reason to assume the shields would remain down if Savik is activating other defensive systems.
In Star Trek TMP it's said the phasers get power from the main engines so how when after Khan attacks are they able to get a few shots out at the Reliant when the mains are down?
Well this is over a decade since then (TMP), so its quite possible they altered the way the phasers worked...
Mike Schatz: in TMP, Decker tells Kirk that the redesign channels phaser power through the main engines. In TMP, the engines were in matter/anti matter imbalance, so non operational. In TWOK, the engines were in balance, just the main energizer disabled and offline.
My explanation for how the Enterprise is always the "only ship in the quadrant" or "sector" or whatever, is this: We always see the depictions of the quadrants in top-down charts. What those charts don't show is that each of the primary quadrants is only a couple of lightyears in "height". The considerable gravity distortions that occur during warp travel mean that even relatively near misses by passing starships would result in catastrophic loss of life and equipment. Therefore, each ship must remain in its own vertical quadrant to prevent such devastation. The Enterprise is the only ship assigned to operate on that particular plane at that time. Other ships may be nearby, but on a different galactic offset which uses an unnamed quadrant naming convention. There is simply no time to obtain the clearances needed for the ships to change their assigned quadrants and therefore, the Enterprise must act alone.
:)
Do I get a no-prize?
Yeah.... Were going to go with a no on that one :P
You asked for other errors you may have missed.
On the bridge of the Reliant, on one of the monitors behind Chekov, there is a display of the layout of the ship in blue, you can see the lower -- or engineering hull -- from the Constitution-class starship being shown as part of the clearly Miranda-class Reliant. It appears to be separate from the saucer section. You can also see part of the neck at the bottom of the saucer section on the same display. This is due to the fact that the bridge for the Reliant is just a redress of the set of the Enterprise. This is clearly visible at the 4:54 mark in your video.
Yes this mistake has already been discovered and address in Episode 44 Addendum, where I give shout outs to people who are the first to point out mistakes I've made! thank you forthe support!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Ah. I haven't made it that far into the series yet. lol
All good! :) Keep your eyes open :)
Did you get majority of your nitpicks from an old 90s book The Nitpicker's Guide for Classic Trekkers
by Phil Farrand?
I recognise a lot of the nitpicks you mentioned in the video.
No I didnt, simply watched and figured them out... Though others have suggested I pick up this book to make my job easier, and because I missed some. As of yet, I have been unable to find it...
Ceti Alpha system was quarantined in TOS. The ST book Khan explaines some of what you're pointing out. Saavik is half Romulan believe it or not
Im sorry you are incorrect, this is a common myth among Trek fans... Please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Saavik
and note she is listed as vulcan because Myer removed all references
from his movie feeling that her crying as a full vulcan would be more
powerful to the audience! Also novels are never canon thus not truths...
Actually if I remember Correctly the Klingons got a neutral zone as part of the Origenian peace treaty don't recall it talked about in that episode or in a later one or even something that was retconned in later
Wow. how many times did you watch this movie and what were you on? Nice Job.
LOL Only about 3 times in a row... But there was a lot of pausing and reversing :P Thank you!
Maybe Kirk got rusty as a starship commander... Of course, Reliant appears to hold her course when encountering Enterprise head on, so could the reason be Kirk orders evasive starboard be to avoid smashing the warp nacelles and get a possible shot off from the aft torpedo launcher which wouldn't have been possible with a turn to port
The Ceti Alpha planet confusion may be possible since we don't know how accurate stellar cartography is in the 23th century, especially for such less important systems. I mean even a star system is still huge. Ceti Alpha V and VI could have been counter planets on the same orbit around the sun and they just hit the wrong one.
Im sorry that I dont buy at all... We've seen all through out OS that the Feds have excellent Steller records...
You did miss one other - the age of Khan's followers. Based on Space Seed, Khan's people appeared in their late 20's and up. Wrath of Khans followers looked around the same age (if not younger), yet Khan obviously aged.
Khan didn't believe in sunblock
what about the belt buckle that kirk has when he walks onto the bridge in the original show every thing was Velcro down and yet when we see khan he is wearing the buckle around his neck!? how?
I have a puzzling point to share Khan wears a slightly broken starfleet symbol on a chain over his pecs, but is that not one of the new red tunic belt buckles if so where did Khan get it as they were marooned on the planet back during the first season of the original series ?????
From what I had read. Admiral Kirk was turning 50 not 52. An he was the Youngest Admiral in Starfleet history. He was having a mid life crisis. Wanting to get back in the Captain's chair.
It was his 52 birthday... Kirk was born in 2233... WofK took place in 2285... Thus 52... memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/James_T._Kirk
They edited out the scenes that explained that Savik was half Vulcan and half Romulan. That is why she was emotional.
That's right, and if it's not in the movie, it's not canon!
Vulcans control their emotions. They're not devoid of emotion. Saavik is allowed to cry at a funeral. Especially for someone she considered a mentor.
I believe that you'll find in ALL other Trek episodes and Movies that THAT is considered inappropriate behavior for a Vulcan under ANY circumstance!
'The Klingons don't take prisoners'
Saavik is taken prisoner in the very next film after Doc Brown vaporizes his weapon's officer for failing to take prisoners. Uncle Fester also demanded that the Enterprise crew surrender instead of firing on the bridge and beaming over to a totally uncrewed ship.
Honestly, it seems that Klingons do nothing BUT take prisoners!
And so do the Romulans given what happened to the Klingons at Khitomer.
This movie is described as the best Star Trek movie, it was certainly an improvement on Star Trek The Motion Picture, sometimes referred to as the motionless picture, which considering how disappointing that film was, you could argue this was not much of an achievement. I agree with most of the points you make, but I want to thank you for pointing out the utterly pointless scene In which Scotty carries the critically injured cadet to the bridge. As you point out, why? Why did he not take him to sickbay? Did he get lost? You can imagine Doctor McCoy saying " I am sorry Scotty, I cold probably have saved him if you had brought him straight to sickbay instead of taking him to the bridge.Look, I know that this was done for dramatic effect, but we had just had a space battle, wasn't this dramatic enough? Also, why does Uhuru react with horror at seeing the cadet, would a 25 year space veteran react in such an anguished way?Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much! And yeah it's pretty crazy that sometimes the story can REALLY get in the way of the reality of a scene!
@Simr Khera Except canonically that is not true, as the scene was deleted before it went to the theater, thus he is not...
With regard to the communicators, the things are huge. TOS ones were less than half the size and of a much less clunky more cohesive design.
shouldnt sarvik be abled to tell the Crew about this whole Vulcan Soul Revival Thing stuff?
Well Sarek makes a comment that leads the audience to believe it is a rare thing not done since ages past, so it's quite possible she simply didnt know about it...
Very well put together. I do, however, have a few issues. Saavik is half Romulan, according to the director's guide, so displays of emotion, though likely frowned on by her mentor, Captain Spock, would not be unexpected. As for the planetary discrepancy, nice catch.
Im sorry but a directors guide is not canon... please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Saavik and not she is listed as a full vlucan because Myer removed all references because he felt a tear from a full vulcan would be more dramatic...
I stand corrected. Well done.
Thank you, but that's the whole point of this channel, to dispel the myths ;) And THAT is one of the most common myths...
In "Day of the Dove", Kirk was accused of killing a kligon crew and they were made captives so Kirk lied to Savvak and she learned on Genesis in Search for Spock
during saavik scenes in the Kobyshy maru they are not in the bridge. its a Simulator at the academy, that's why science station is not at the same position as in tmp. also she is not completely Vulcan she is half romulan
First, The science station is in the same position as the simulator and NOT as TMP on the Enterprise and also you are incorrect about Saavik! Please refer to memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Saavik
and note she is listed as vulcan because Myer removed all references
from his movie feeling that her crying as a full vulcan would be more
powerful to the audience!
I suppose there could be any number of reasons why Khan would know something about Klingon proverbs. I suspect that a super-intelligent person with the capacity to consume and assimilate large amounts of knowledge quickly might have felt it a good idea to voraciously research the history and advancements that took place since he went into suspended animation. I would likewise expect historical reference materials accessible on a Federation star ship would include a for amount of references to Klingons (and Vulcans, Romulans, or any other alien races that figure prominently).
If I nodded off for a few hundred years and woke up to find that humanity has not only contacted numerous extraterrestrial races in the interim, but interacted with them considerably, I'd be awfully curious to learn about them. Besides, Kirk may have seen fit to provide Khan and his minions encyclopedic reference and reading materials to occupy them while settling in on Seti Alpha 5. Or maybe he learned about it from his wife, who was a Starfleet officer before being exiled along with Khan.
As for the Klingon proverb being a Sicilian proverb: if the Klingons think that Shakespeare's plays were a product of their cultural/artistic heritage as opposed to that of humans (as indicated by Gen. Chang in Star Trek VI), who knows what other cultural affectations of human origin they've appropriated? I suspect that the history and goings-on of La Cosa Nostra would have quite a bit of appeal to a race whose culture prizes strength, martial prowess, ruthless cunning, and absolute loyalty unto to death to one's master.
The nagging question that **I** always had is this: during their initial skirmish with Reliant, Kirk allows Reliant to just mosey on up into phaser range while Enterprise pretty much has its pants around its ankles in terms of its ability to defend itself. Even after Saavik observed that this was a violation of basic Starfleet protocol, and even after Spock indicated that the reason Reliant gave for their ability to communicate was bogus.
Yeah, way to go, Mr. Salty Veteran Starship Commander.
Minutes later, Kirk comes off like Trafalgar when he uses an arcane bit of starship engineering trivia to punk the Reliant and high-tail it out of there to temporary safety. This being a gambit that Spock himself clearly thought of because he knew what Kirk was about to tell Saavic/Sulu to do before Kirk even said it; did Spock get any props for that?. And the fate of both the ship and all of its crew were still very much in peril...because of Kirk's **BONEHEADED MISTAKE.**
The evasive starboard , is to swing the ENT around 180° to bring her behind reliant. Also the bridge was the likely target and the engineering hull has more armour ,along with a open space profile
Im sorry but that simply isnt correct... We know what an evasive starboard looks like from ALL the times it is used in the series... And we can see exactly what it's doing here, presenting a larger target for the reliant! It was a bad call! And to say that the Bridge was the target requires the operation of Khans mind, it certainly doesnt look close to what the target was... What should I believe? What my eye see or what you imagine?
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios tbh at the ranges we talking Khan was targetting that location being the torps are there. I'm sure not turning was going to be much worse you don't play chicken with starships. up or down would give even a bigger target. So yes it was the right call.
Rickymcdd I always thought he was attempting to avoid colliding with Reliant.
TriAngulum Audio Studios (Edited for clarity and logical flow of ideas) I have noticed that throughout this movie, Sulu kept firing on *Reliant's* bridge (or at least kept aiming for it). Khan hit almost everything else on *Enterprise* but the bridge. No sense in killing Kirk: there goes *Genesis*.
Khan's initial attack, which was well-thought out, attacked sensitive parts of *Enterprise*, crippling her initially; but, as Khan began losing control of the situation, commenced ordering fire but not directed at any strategic locations on *Enterprise*.
Khan also couldn't get *Reliant's* main power back on-line, which Kirk immediately called for after *Enterprise* got socked (and never let up on Scotty about getting restored). Khan's failure in that regard and Kirk's success helped to tip the balance towards Kirk.
Also, as Sulu repeatedly aims for *Reliant's* bridge, Chekov aims for other strategic parts of *Reliant* -- the rollbar/torpedo launcher, and then a nacelle. Those strategic shots inflicted damage to *Reliant* in a way that Sulu's shots didn't -- causing lethal damage versus merely lessening her capabilities.
@@waltertomaszewski1083 that's the difference between a skeleton crew and a full complement - shit gets done! And I guess Chekov was a pro shot.
seems it would have been wiser to order roll starboard rather than evasive starboard, because they could have returned fire and avoided fire more effectively, and still avoided collision
Also, isn't Gamma Hydra a Romulan world? Why would there be Klingons in the Romulan Neutral Zone?