The INSANITY of DOTA 2's balance EPISODE 1 - A video meant for League Of Legends players!
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2023
- Ever look at a icefrog and wonder....
what is going on inside his head?
I LOVE IT !
This video is meant for League Of Legends players to get a quick summary of the craziness on this side of the divide.
discord.gg/sxMHGSm - Ігри
When i first played dota i asked my friend "How was the balance again?"
And he said
"If all is broken none is broken"
wise words
@@TZAR_POTATO wise words indeed, Great video Comrade Potato 😂 🥔
@@kingsalver ty for being a fan!
@@TZAR_POTATO Always a pleasure
🤣🤣🤣
"With great power comes great counter" - Uncle Gaben
Cute!
And that's why offlane Elder Titan is a clutch machine, he can solo counter full enemy team push
@@megawl2086 Yeah but you trade the hero's complexity for that as well as team coordination. That's why you don't see it much in average mmr pubs, still balanced that way.
they cant get it bro its so complicated for them
more like ice froge if he hasnt quit yet. tbh im tired of ice frog selling out to china
Its hard to apreciate, but every hero in dota is designed to have checks and balances. When they are so powerful that those checks are no longer effective, the hero gets nerfed. Its worked so far and allows each hero to feel powerful in the right situation, without being unbeatable.
SOOO good for the game to be designed this way!
my favorite kind of nerf is when they buff every other hero to be more viable
@@slycat123123and this shit happens at least 40% of the time and mostly a big one. Sometimes, they'd graced us with item changes all across the board.
Except for TInker and Faceless Void
7.33 Medusa is laughing at this.
I think the fact that most spells in Dota don't scale with items and there are counter too any spell within the items make it a little more balanced.
and the fact that unlike Lol in Dota you have access to all heroes from get go makes Dota more strategic and balanced because you can counter pick.
Heroes being f2p is definitely nice for newer players, but League is such an old game that pretty much anyone who's been playing it as their main game owns every champ.
@@ghozter1dota is older
@@Austin-if7ne I never said it wasn't, dota 1 is definitely older but dota 2 isn't older than league. I was just saying that most league players own all champs because they've been playing it for so long.
@@ghozter1dota 1 wc3 map still getting updates btw lmao😂 even if dota 2 and lol dies dota 1 wc3 map will never ever die
in fact all abilities scale with Magic Amp, but it is scarse
thats why i freaking love dota, it's either an hour of enjoying stomping enemies or an hour of prolonged suffering of being stomped.
not exactly the words I'd use...
And you know that comeback is never impossible and one sudden scythe of vise can put overfarmed enemy carry on its knees which will lead to won fight where you get a lot of gold and can fight back. Happen with me often. I play on Russian server. We start to trash talk each other half game, defend high ground already on 30 min, but then one won fight and we are already encouraging each other, and miracle, at 50-60 min we even manage to win game that was supposed to be lost.
And nothing gives that kind of pleasure as comebacking lost game after hour of sufferings.
Depends on the game and the team honestly. I try to ene game I'm stomping in asap so I don't get comebacked on.
The games I'm getting stomped in are usually ones where if we just work together and high ground we can win
@@yarikyaryihat if the overfarmed carry buys a linken and also has a bkb how do you counter that😭
Its sad now after respawn they give invunerability if not moving. Cant fountain farm anymore 😂
The most broken aspect of Dota seems balanced compared to the worst of LoL. In LoL you way too often die in 0.005 seconds from burst damage 💀
See, in league it's not broken in mechanical sense, it's just that some champions do an absurd amount of damage, and all damage scales with items. In dota, you just get stunned all the time :D
@@TZAR_POTATObut you also have actual counters to the CC(BKB)
Also, League has far more random slows on its abilities, where you're just wondering to yourself if this ability really needed to slow as well. I think most egregious in that regard a GP barrel, Cho'Gath Q and Akali Q, none of these should slow, but they do regardless
@@xolotltolox7626 I see, that makes sense. Yeah, part 2 is meant to show that everything, even the most OP, has counters in dota. That's why it can get away with having so much strong stuff!
@@xolotltolox7626 i believe that's just Riot's way of "balancing" older champions to make them somewhat viable.
@@abogmus8904 Two of the three aren't even old and got reworked into this state. Akali is a fairly recent CertainlyT disaster and GP also got a rework when he died. And cho, who admittedly is ANCIENT has his slow on what is already aoe hard cc. Not to mention the best CC in the game because airborne in league is legitemately just better supression
14:03 "detection cheap and plentiful" but nobody ever seems to have it xD
Every selfish and entitled mid players expect everyone to bow down to become support and buy every wards and dust for them
I play safe often, and sometimes I’ll play hard sup. I played a game where I put up 25 wards ish . Lost because our mid was blinking into a horde of enemies and committing suicide.
Post game: “you should’ve warded more”
Aw, it would've been great to have Axe here. His main mechanic is just, "Screw your avoiding death, now die"
Fun hero to play to counter the likes of Abaddon, Dazzle, and Oracle.
pos3 think axe counters dazzle.. pos5 think dazzle counters axe ;)
Yea I play dazzle and and love it when enemy picks axe thinking it counters me (4.5k mmr bracket)
@@dotawin8406pos 4 axe cannot be countered by dazzle tho. More so pos5
Dazzle is pretty good against axe in lane.
@@albuspercivalwulfricbriand5363 Dazzle bullies pos3 Axe out of lane, the fk is a pos4 axe gonna do?
"Anything can work in dota"
- some dude who won 2 TIs back to back
I mean, a dude making a mana burn sword on a flying helicopter/plane hybrid won TI. Another dude fished an enemy back to his fountain. And just a few days ago, a dude bought a freaking hammer to bash on a ghost pegasus rider mage
@@Dismiazs that KOTL bashed on the first try, so freakin insane
@@Dismiazs One winner alsol make IO the most undamaged healing suporte become a Carry in a TI finals... This is dota.
@@MatheusFelipeD ah yes the part timer ana
If you ever decide to make a sequel to this, you may want to mention blink dagger. At a medium gold cost, you get a 3x range 15 second cooldown flash. Though it is disabled for 3 seconds if you take damage. When i tried league, I missed having such a powerful initiation/escape tool.
Blink dagger is already showcased in this video though :P
@@TZAR_POTATO Yes, but it could deserve a spotlight on its own. Maybe an episode about the insanity of item balance (smoke, ward, blink, nullifier, scythe, etc)? (probably already covered in that one video but still)
And also is a 2.2k gold item that doesn't bring any stat, just the blink
@@JuanCarlos-qr9gd for heroes like Enigma, Earth Shaker or Tidehunter, they can afford to get a slot purely for blink dagger, as their ultimates rely on element of surprise. As of current patch, Blink dagger can be upgraded further into 3 separate items corelating to the 3 stats. Strength dagger gives 25 strength and does AOE slow and damage on the blink's arrival point. Agility dagger gives 25 agility, and phased movement (move through units, but not terrain), 40% speed boost and 35 additional agility for 6 seconds upon blinking. Intelligence dagger grants 25 intelligence, increases blink distance and reduces cooldown to 7 seconds.
@@alrycaaeveahexendias1236 they actually are hehe!
In League items lead primarily to more damage or more sustain, and it's heavily weighted towards the damage side. The comeback mechanics like bounties or elder dragon are also not nearly as potent (I'd argue elder isn't even a comeback mechanic at all). This creates games where most characters can kill any non-tank within 1-2 seconds, or faster in team fights, and there's less ways to stop or punish individual characters who get ahead. So mechanics that are actually unique or cool feel way worse in practice, because there's basically no way to build against it, and it grants the enemy team a lead in the one thing people are building (damage) so they can push that lead even more and become even harder to stop. Even something as simple as stuns feel way worse, because a 1.5 second stun usually means instant or near instant death and more advantage for the enemy. In my experience with League, the game often uses high skill expression and fun acrobatic fighting game esque character designs in order to bypass the otherwise incredibly stat-checky nature of league's gameplay.
Meanwhile in Dota there's so many items to build that all interact with different gameplay systems in unique ways and make every character extremely versatile. Yes PA can get absurd evasion and be virtually immune to all autos, but there's an item that lets you bypass that if you're willing to lose the inventory slot and invest the gold. (the only thing that works like this in league iirc is Quicksilver Sash with some things like Mord ult, an item that is otherwise virtually useless due to its terrible cost efficiency and feels more like a punishment) And if you do adapt like this and catch someone on it, you can rapidly turn their advantage into yours and clutch out games. The comeback mechanics are real. So you can almost always come up with some kind of unique strategy to try and deal with a situation.
I do love both games for different reasons (league's high-movement fighting game esque gameplay is genuinely very fun) but League will never be able to go as crazy as Dota can just because of the core mechanics of the game. There's a popular league youtuber who recently talked offhandedly about how Akshan's revive mechanics attacks the competitive integrity of the game itself for existing. And I thought back on Dota having Nature's Prophet, who can have a 0 cooldown teleport to any tree on the map including directly into enemy base, and that character isn't even considered that good. One of these games encourages crazy broken unique mechanics and ideas from its developers, and the other bends and breaks when the rigid design rules are poked too hard. And despite all that Dota still has a more varied hero landscape in pro play.
Bro, nobody is going to read that shit
Amen!
I don't play League but why revive is threatening them? I thought League has shorter cooldown, unlike dota where if you use black hole to carry enemy and kill him but somehow he has aegis, it might fuck your game and need to stall before black hole is ready again
@@icariamcgordon358o Akshan W eould still probably be fucking stupid if it was in Dota.
Akshan's W passively marks anyone that scores a kill and when akshan scores a takedown(kill or assist) on them EVERYONE that person killed respawns at the fountain
So imagine a teamfight you kill 4 people, but 2 people on your team die as well. Normall that would be a really good temfight for you, but in comes akshan, kills you, and all 4 people come back to life
What was essentially 3v4 trade, now became a 3v0 for no reason other than Akshan being a champion from the year of our lord 2022
And now you no longer can contest objectives because it is a 2v5 instead of a 2v1.
Hell, and this is an extreme case. Even just akshan reviving a guy from a kill trade is silly as fuck
Not really league and dota practically almost have same set hero in pro play, prove me wrong, now the problem is league go into more and more making this weird changes to circumventing a flaw on a class with item, like immortal shieldbow and galeforce. Making most of the cast build are streamlining, with zero creativity build in it.
Really makes people realzie how important draft phase to dota is.
blind pick: ban AM, pick medusa
@@weedmantrudeau5783heheh nyx
@@gambaru55 I GOT THAT, VERY FUNNY XD
@@weedmantrudeau5783
Axe, Huskar, Lion (who just got mega buffed and can be played mid now), Silencer, Tinker, Razor, Viper, Bane, Nyx, Pango, would like to know your location because you can't ban all of them and they will destroy you.
@@weedmantrudeau5783 Axe one ult kill, wall, defusal snake lady has a lot of counter 😂
Tbh Dota still is the most "balanced" moba out there. There is nothing you can't counter in Dota unless something is waaaay out of control. But in comparison in lol that happens with a champ with half an item and one kill. And God know how many times I died to a random basic ability flying through the screen in late game basically from full health.
new patch update is the only enemy in dota2
Fucking hell when will they nerf that bich samira
ehem Medusa...
@@heatfragment am, silencer, wr and probably oracle on early Laning stage since he doesn't need to use fortune's end to dispel purifying flame since it doesn't recover mana
@@heatfragment ur just a herald if u cant counter medusa hashahahahahahah
When everyone is broken. Non is overpowered.😅
PREACH
Just ignore Medusa's ban rate
Dota is way more balanced. League is the one with major issues
you have never got thinker stomped i see.
@@joobin1049 That's usually my own mistake, not the tinker being op. If i had shadow blade and bkb, I would have killed the tinker.
One thing worth noting, CK's Aghs makes 1 meepo illusion for every Meepo DivWeStand Clone.
That an orgasm if that happen in front of es
My favorite part of DOTA and HOTS as someone who started MOBAs with League is that both of those games break every rule of balance and champ design that League taught me and create some of the dopest kits as a result.
That's not even the most broken thing about Luna.. You should have shown his Autoattacks just bouncing off enemy towers melting them in seconds.😅🤣
Luna is my go-to hero for a fast game, especially with other hardass heroes like NS.
this is why dota has good competitive scene like soccer. Simple to spectate, fun if played with friend, outplay are easily observed. Also more enjoyable to watch than play itself :|
well, dota is definitely not simple to spectate if you are not playing dota a lot/read patches. There are so many things that change in Dota, like recent BKB change and other crucial changes that are too important to know in order to understand whats going on. Even now I listen to these dota2 casters (for current Bali major) that clearly didn't play dota a lot or didn't read recent patch notes, they miss so much and give disinfo to the audience constantly. Not comparable to soccer at all xD
@@BonyaDK yea but so many UA-camr reupload short highlights and you can always ask on comment if you away from the game for some time bein.
never played league in my life, still found this video very entertaining. good job! would be amazing to see every hero and item explained like this
@daddykratos-69 no, I know, I just meant that this video is interesting for me even though I know what all of those dota 2 heroes do
Glad you enjoyed it! Like this... like what, with memes?
@@TZAR_POTATO the presentation, the music, the memes. it felt like a dota ad, in a good way
@@TZAR_POTATO also the jakiro-luna part was funny, like a mini-storyline with luna comeback and how players are communicating
I love when u show the part 2 about the counters. This is the beauty of DOTA.
Honestly, just make a part 2 lmao. This was great. I'm sure League players would love to watch it. Maybe even make some about League. I know nothing about it. Been playing Dota since 2012, and I don't plan on stopping.
It was fun to make for sure, but I feel like only dota players are watching this "for league players" vid :D
@@TZAR_POTATOdota player here, still like the absolute chaos in the dota heroes skill
A very great vid dude, good to see that there's potential in advertising dota through its mechanics and gameplay rather than belittling our competition with other MOBAs. 10000/10 - 5 Stars - MVP - you nailed it.
Thanks dude, that means a lot!
The biggest difference between League and Dota2 is that in Dota you can counter hero/ability counters with items, something that's almost totally lacking in league, not just as protection from certain abilities, but as punishment for them using it to begin with.
One example is Leagues Poppy who is considered a counter to dashing champions, but compared to Dota2s Blood seeker, this is really no counter at all. Blood seekers ulti makes any hero affected by it take serious damage for every inch they move. 1 single blink (flash) and you basically suicide. These kind of punishing counters are none existing in league and if your draft is losing it's much harder to compensate in game compared to dota.
Idk hey. If you learn the matchups you will know tht your abilties counter others. Jax can counter Camilles enhanced auto if timed correctly. Pantheon can block urgot shotgun legs after thrown over when timed correctly.
Jinx can counter akalis dash with her piranha grenades.
Udyr can counter any cc if timed correctly.
Veiger can counter zeds ult with his ring.
Kayle can counter kayns ult with her ult
Chogath can silence to counter an escape or engage.
Nasus can reduce attack speed and movement which counters kalista
The best part is that many of these matchups have other intricacies behind them to be mastered
It's this higher skill expression tht I enjoy about league and you have to remember its all happening faster than dota. So your dopamine and adrenaline are constantly spiking.
Dota 2's balancing philosophy seems to be something like: "Buff or rework something until it's broken and then nerf everything else about the hero or item, or buff the counters".
It takes something truly gamebreaking to warrant being adressed directly by whoever's in charge of the balance. Something that's either so overpowered it would just be game losing to let the enemy team have it (Drow's old global bonus range damage aura or Centaur's stunning Stampede ulti come to mind) or it's something so underpowered it's not considered competitively viable even after 10 straight patches of direct buffs. (Old Bloodseeker's skill kit)
True, though this medusa and alch change in 7.33 just feel like "why not" reworks
@@TZAR_POTATO Haha, to be fair it's not the first time they've done such a rework. We'll just have to see how they work to balance that now.
Also, just for the memes, with Spirit Breaker you should have also put "17%" as a game mechanic, though I guess that's a bit more difficult to capture on video. But there are a few examples on youtube already.
@@Ramk0coreain't Barathrum's bash no more truly random?
@@VasiliyOgniov Kinda. It's pseudo-random now, which means the chance to bash actually increases the more hits you get without bashing, while the first hit actually has a lower chance to proc than the 17% on paper.
But still, every once in a while, people still upload the occasional video of someone getting 5 or so bashes in a row.
@@Ramk0core I mean, the whole point of 17% meme was about Greater Bash being the last truly random bash. Nowadays it is not. Moreover, it even has a cooldown, so you literally cannot bash the same target twice in a two hits. While it was wild to see billion bashes in a row, why mention it, if it is no longer that way?
"you dont need to balance anything if you can imbalance everything" - Gaben
All of us DOTA 2 vets watching him explaining "unbalanced mechanics and abilities" while we had to go trough Monkey King on Release 3 shoting you on lvl 3
The Tinker one will always blew every League player. The concept of infinite abilities + items is very mind boggling for League player and will make them went "how do you counter this ?"
malz ult bqsically, bane
best counter for tinker : earth spirit
Cc the mf
For simpel solution pick silencer press R and nowhere tinker can hide even it oppsite of map
@rifkyirawan3190 tinker will buy BKB. While under silent, he can use BKB and can use his skills again. For Bane, he can buy linken's sphere.
Not just abilities but the items as well. 10 second immunity to spells. Instant invis with a single button. Refresh your whole kit and items. Teleport across the map in 45 seconds. Dodge basic attacks. Return full damage in a 5 second duration. Push enemies or allies.
Bkb got nerfed, its a whole diff item now. not sure if its carry staple now or not. looks like all the cc time was reduced now too.
@@ericcaminero6246 I main crystal maiden and the bkb nerf is a buff for her, end game I can kill enemy cores with my ult even when they pop their bkbs :D
@@ericcaminero6246 Yeah, it's more like the Olaf ult now.
BKB hasnt been 10 seconds since 2021.
Dazzle in previous patch was so fckn OP bro it was like tinker version 1.2, his SS Good Juju refreshes all his skills and items which makes Graveyard+Blinkdagger+AeonDisk+Windwaker IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL plus he is making strong disable items like vyse and orchid. Glad that mdfckr was changed otherwise having dazzle as your enemy decrease your mmr
9:29
I love how Barathum beautifully exposes the size of DOTA’s map compared to LoL’s
One of the reasons I prefer DOTA over LoL
The plan worked!
Every champion has some mobility spell, some skillshot nuke, some defensive ability, and the ult and passive are the only things different. Items also easily draw parallels between the magic and atk routes, albeit some uniqueness.
In dota, every spell, passive and item is something right out of a group of think tank on copious amounts of cocaine. No structure, no drawing parallels. That makes it insanely hard to learn, but infinitely more skill cap.
Then they added talent trees. Shard. Neutral items. Expand the Map.
Yeah, icefrog is going to make sure existing dota players get their brains churned into a paste.
Great job, man! And it's just small part of it actually. Old storm spirit that could fly freely how he wants with stacked bloodstone, ember's spirit aghanim fire remnants, specter ult, ravage, rubick's 2 spell steal, morphling agi-str and ult, fk, there won't be enough text space in 1 UA-cam comment to count all amazing and SUPER FKIN' BROKEN mechanics for lol. I think one blink dagger would break lol's balance😂😂😂
I wanted to add more, but the vid just grew and grew... but hopefully the message is received by the league viewers!
The thing with Dota is that everything id insanely strong in what it is meant to do and the devs holds no bar on it, the games has very little restriction on game breaking combos and strategies that it feels very refresh for me as a long time league player. Never in my mind could i imagine a game that lets your support farms items for you and have cc chains into the 10 of seconds lol, not to mention having items that completely neutralize some style of heroes...
That's the beauty of it. That's what makes dota, dota and not like League. It's in a large sense, the power budgeting between items and spells.
The only major problem of Dota 2 is the ever-increasing complexity with new things and their counters being added from time to time. It can potentially be extremely confusing and intimidating for newer players to try out the game.
But, dota does have a really good new player experience toolkit. Even so, yeah it's a hard game.
@@TZAR_POTATO yeah, in that regard, your channel is a blessing for those moba players who want to try out dota 2 for a change. Your content is really educational and fun to watch even for a longtime player like me. Keep up the good work!
@@PhuongTran-hm4dytbh, 7.33 update is the 1st update that ive been overwhelmed by the massive change. Never had trouble to adapt to a new patch since playing in 2007(dota1), this is the 1st time lol. Now im good
@@lokikokoko5833
Me too! Although I only play the game sparingly now, the changes the latest patch brought blow a breath of fresh air into the game, which is welcomed by me. But I must admit I was also taken aback by these enormous changes when the patch was first dropped 🤣
@@PhuongTran-hm4dy yet we see those crybabies who cant accept changes and cried "weeeaaa dota is ded now". I get it, its overwhelming but bear with it and learn a new stuff. I remember back then i play invoker like 3 month to get use to that hero agaisnt bot and i had fun with it
I'll also always respect someone that can bring-up a mix of Massive-Attack: Tear Drop into a video, the way you did it!🤘❤🤟
What a pure rendition of joy and zen, that song is!
hell yeah, got the massive attack playing quietly in the background, complimenting the random drum track greatly
Pudge alone can break league players minds lol.
Imagine a blitzcrank hook at goes beyond your screen that can be immediately followed up with a point to click warwick ult while being able to stack both HP and AD infinitely thru kills.
TRUE... and then tell them that you can just buy a screen wide flash to jump people so you don't even NEED the hook... you show them the hook, and tell them IT'S NOT EVEN THE BEST PART OF THE HERO ::D:D:D
Dota is very simple: If you don't know enough, if you're not skilled enough and if you can't adapt enough... any Hero might seem broken, but if you go the other way around you'll also realize that any "broken" Hero can be brought-down at almost any point-in-time!... and most of the times, by some very basic mix of all those different aspects in the game.
Hey, great video! Did you think about making a video about the difference in objectives between Dota and LoL? Like how Roshan, Tormentors, Outposts, all the different runes (bounty/wisdom/power) shape the game of Dota VS how Rift/Baron, Dragons and scuttles do the same in LOL? This could also touch a bit on the role of jungler in LoL and the way Dota got rid of its "junglers".
It's on my todo list!
jungler is still in dota if u r out of role tokens in ranked and u dont want to support other people. at least its true for weu/russian servers xd
The funny thing is that a good amount of stuff in here either used to exist in LoL or some reduced version of it is still in it today. Got reminded of old Evelynn, beta Jax, old Yorick, Master Yi Q/old Fiora R, even that one bouncing ult reminded me of old Fiddle E. LoL definitely got all its ideas from somewhere.
Just stumbled upon your videos, loving them, also amazing choice in music. keep it up!
Thank you for being a fan!
I always think about Dota2 whent it comes to balance a game in a right direction. The bold way Valve makes these huge changes all the time should be an example for others, how to keep a game alive, interesting and dynamic.
The recipe is simple:
1) make everything strong
2) make it skill dependant to extract this strength
3) add endless variables
4) add some randomness
So, to win, you have to:
1) Know your hero
2) Be really good with it
3) Balance meta/surprise/situational builds
4) Tame the luck
WIth these, the game process will always be fresh and unique at least in some way.
And there are always huge patches incoming
I just love how every hero identity is completely countered by another one. Dusa is super strong and tanky because of her mana shield? Yeah, AM and WR+diffusal do not give a shit with their mana burn. Puck is insanely mobile and impossible to catch? Blink lion hex. Meanwhile in LoL, there is no counter to yuumi except a nerf. In Dota, heroes are countered by items and other heroes. It also makes it so we don't see the same 10 champions every game because PB in pro play is boring af.
League is made with the intent to foster one trick pony mentality. They won't let a hard counter exist because it would make the people getting countered mad. It's a self-sabotaging circular logic.
@@TZAR_POTATO id say it's a different mentality and not necessarily a bad one
Having $ free access to all the heroes is an understated part of dotas balance as you can start learning about counter picks and team strategy right from the start and not releasing heroes too often leads to more consistent balance thats better maintained. Geez leagues abilities are so damn fun tho, thresh's kit kept me going back and loving the support role.
Warlocks fatal bonds are more bonkers than his ult, the damage it can dish out quite quick is insanity.
I am surprised you didnt mention Zett. Giant range slow nuke, full evasion field thats can be placed twice lol, a clone with full abilities and reduced cooldowns. If you have no idea how to play against it its fucking terrifying lol! Lvl 500 raidboss with 4 illusions pushing highground and killing things in fountain.
Space issues, video was getting long
@@TZAR_POTATO That seems fair, although another one of these would be also fun i think)
@@timotyender3979 Even with a second one, I don't want to include zett until his next rework which is intended to be soon.
@@TZAR_POTATO I dont know he was getting a rework thats cool
@@timotyender3979 yeah, it was in the 7.33 notes.
To be honest I think the first insane things any LoL player would notice before anything else would be:
1) TP not interrupted by damage (only stun/root)
2) blink dagger
3) how little damage towers do
Also, the reverse list for me personally (of insane things in LoL):
1) you can't disjoint projectiles
2) you can buffer spell animations through stuns (f.e. if lux casts ult right before getting stunned ult still goes off while she is stunned)
3) heroes need to be unlocked
As for the balance, I felt LoL being worse in that regard as amount of one-shots from random ass heroes is through the roof. In dota you have a few heroes who can 1-shot you like that (PA / nyx), but more often than not you can either play around it - be it better positioning or itemization.
And while LoL has a number of heroes that are quite unhinged by dota standards - Talon being able to jump any cliff, Katarina with all the CD resets, or Lee Sin dashing all over the place - while all that is indeed very impressive, I honestly can't even think of any good examples because most of lol heroes characterize by how much they slap. Look at Ekko - he got all these unique elements + ult same as weaver, but all I can say about him - he deals way too much damage. In dota hearing that somebody won 1v5 is a rarity - some lvl 30 antimage or 6-slotted medusa maybe, while in LoL it's every other hero.
To continue my rant a bit more - AP varus exists. Just imagine telling a dota player that there is a hero, who can buy some items, and be able to 1-shot literally anything. I mean, you can kinda do it with huskar, but it's much harder and the entire build is a meme making a hero useless otherwise; while for varus the build is late-game oriented, but very much legit.
Tried playing LoL not a long ago and i can confirm all of this
Good insight!
Thats why miracle went 1v5 in pro tournameny and people went apeshit about it. 😂
@@lokikokoko5833 Remember RTZ 1v5 lifestealer? Best dota film of last year honestly!
yooo your guides in reddit really helped me a lot bro, subbed to the goated potato!
Thanks for the sub!
that part 2 with everything got a counter was a very cool demonstration, that is something I love about dota
If everything is broken, nothing is broken- probably icefrog
Sounds like Dash from incredibles
i woundn't say everything is broken. it's more like rock-paper-scissors relationship
@@leonbishop7404true which is why Dota will always be more balanced than league in pro play.
League is always who gets the bigger lead and not fucking up
Dota is always rock paper scissors, unless you are actually below Archon with -1 IQ, you will always have an item *available* to you to counter OR lessen your weaknesses-while not fucking up laning phase.
as someone who played Dota early but switched to league.... ya... this is only some of the crazy things. Treant Protector, whom I played, could HEAL turrets.
tbf healing towers isn't worth it usually tho, bc its slow
Great vid! I had some thoughts but I won't post walls of text. Lol
Maybe I'll look into the coaching.
"ah.. my finest creation" -IceFrog
Tbh in a real game people will have break, hex, stuns, etc. to counter carries. But in League all you need is healing champ + healing items or just go tank and one shot everything. 😂😂
Please do more videos on Dota 2, for League of legends players. i just started playing dota 2, and something that I have noticed is how hard the items is to understand etc
Also for some reason LoL players can't seem to comprehend that you can buy whatever item in dota on any given hero and IT COULD WORK, nothing is set on stone.
how exactly are they hard ???
the worst part comes when the Meta changes
Want me to coach you?
@@TZAR_POTATO how much? for free?
Used to play both many years ago and now i just play Wild Rift for my MOBA fix, but tbh i’ve been considering coming back to DotA recently and seeing videos like this one popping up in my recommended is always fun to see! >w
Amazing for introducing my main. "Tinker" 12:58 league players will try, cause it's amazing sadly he's not op if someone counter him.
I haven't played dota in a very long time beside costume games and I've been grinding league. This video is fucking great
What’s the music? It’s killing me
I remember when there's 5 of us vs 1 spectre we couldn't kill it so we just kill 4 of his team mate and ignore him while destroying the base
Ive never heard this remix of teardrop.
With all due respect I STILL think this video doesn't do dota heroes justice. You should've showed off more than one ability of heroes' kits. Yeah, Treant's global vision sounds OP, but it becomes something otherworldly when you consider HE CAN STUN THE ENTIRE MAP.
Let me list more of heroes'abilities showcased in this video, for anyone reading to TRULY understand the insanity of Dota
(In order of the video)
Anti-mage: has a blink with CD of only 4 seconds across the entire screen
Faceless Void: can DODGE abilities that would've hit otherwise
Bristleback: for each ability cast he gets extra attack damage and move speed
Silencer: deals PURE (bypasses armor and resistances) damage based on the amount of his int stat (mana and mana regen). PERMANENTLY STEALS int stat of enemies upon killing them (your base mana pool might not be enough to cast your spells anymore). This can stack infinitely
Warlock: casts bonds that transfer dealt damage to everyone under their effect (if one gets hit, they all get hit)
Pudge: permanently increases his health and AD upon kill or assist. Stacks infinitely
Juggernaut: places a ward that heals in AOE better THAN THE BASE ITSELF, best healing source in the game
Kunkka: all of his abilities are equally insane. He can stun the entire screen for 5-6s, he can delay dealt damage to him and his team if they get hit by his AOE stun, and that red mark can teleport enemies back too
OGRE MAGI: can buff towers, giving them insane attack speed
Omniknight: all of his abilities deal pure damage, and a lot of it
Slardar: places a tracker mark on the enemy, reducing their armor and revealing their position for the entire duration of it. Lasts a lot, CD only 4s
Tidehunter: STUNS THE ENTIRE SCREEN. CAN DO IT TWICE. NEEDS NO SETUP
Lich: good luck trying to walk, all of his abilities (5 in total) have a built-in AOE slow, and they all stack with eachother
Oracle: FULL SPELL IMMUNITY on him or his ally every 8s, if cast on enemy will turn off their right click
Phantom assassin: 400% CRIT PASSIVE AS AN ULT. YOU CAN ONESHOT. WITH HIGH CONSISTENCY.
Riki: places an AOE smoke bomb that increases damage dealt to you, slows you, silences you, and makes you miss every attack. Debuffs work by just standing in it
Sniper: can stun you across 3 screens every 10s. Not a skillshot, just left click the bad man and it'll land.
Terrorblade: can create copies of himself or his enemies
Abaddon: each 4th hit silences and slows down enemy
Mirana: another stun across 3 screens. A skillshot, but compensates this by being a 6 SECOND STUN.
Chaos knight: both his crit and his stun can be 4 times the duration if you're lucky. Illusions throw this stun with you
Earthshaker: leaps like LeBron James to charge up a crit. This crit deals 450% dmg and has a cleave (Will hit everyone near it)
Spirit breaker: decreases effectiveness of CC (stun duration, slow, etc) by 80% every 5s.
Treant Protector: already mentioned the MAP STUN. If you're near a ward, you'll get stunned. But. He can also heal buildings.
Jakiro: one of few things to damage towers with magic, which will also kill their attack speed.
Luna: her glaves bounce between targets. A LOT.
Batrider: can fly. Ignores all collision in the game. Dragged enemies will fly too, meaning he can steal you out of nowhere like Batman (bat lol) and noclip away
Chen: map-global heal. Doesn't only affect heroes, but everything and everyone
Snapfire: multitarget armor-piercing heavy machine gun with real life accurate attack speed and damage
Tinker: his laser decreases your dmg and max health by 25%. AOE. Multiple instances stack
Chill out. It's a youtube vid, part 1 in a short series. Just relax a bit, for me please?
that's why i love dota.even when you are 48k gold behind, you can still win
Happened to one of my students today actually!
What's crazy is some of the heroes mentioned here is basically 'trash' hero in dota, as in you only pick them in very very favorable matchup unless they will be countered easily.
Or a simple low rank pub stomper
Crazy thing is that its still balance
5:00 Brand's R
but cooler
💀
Considered calling it pyrochasm but brand's r has some weird bonus effects so I thought... eh, just press r. I also originally had the meme of the guy singing and dancing while playing games, but had to remove due to a copyright claim
you should've shown cast range decrease abilities(bane's enfeeble and tinker's shard)
That would have been funny! Maybe in a part 2 if I make one :)
@@TZAR_POTATO shaker's fissure is so funny with these
@@RuddenLyter yeah it's like he needs viagra
I tried a few times to get into League, but dota is my forever game: so much freedom of expression for creative builds and playstyles. However I do love these vids showing the difference between the two games.
Also: today I learned that Massive Attack’s “Teardrop” has a drum and bass version. Thanks!
Best version of the song!!
Some things I would've added to the video: Void's Backtrack dodging nukes, Warlock also summons golems on death so you could have 6, Pudge blink + aether hook for ultimate max range, Ogre magi should multicast midas and hex, I think Tidehunter's ult is more noticable than his OP kraken shell and tankiness to new players, and especially showcase the GLOBAL RANGE heroes
There's always more. That's why at the start I said that I only touched upon a few of the wacky things.
"if everything is broken, no one is"
Also, everyone envies Pudge's hook. They WISH they can hook as far as pudge can
Btw, oracle's ult delay the damage and double the healing at the end
Yeah i know it doubles the healing... but it does also delay it. I wanted to sum up mechanics as quickly and cleanly as i can, so I left out a lot of details.
And yeah, jeez pudge giga hook... only rubick can beat it!
its why i love marci and marci was the hero that convinced me to play dota
cuz she reminded me of league playstyle KEKW
Play what you enjoy! Also, thanks for being a sub :)
perfecto!
Keep it going.
When everyone is unbalanced, no one is.
thats what true fantasy at highest looks like.
Huh? What do you mean?
@@TZAR_POTATO He's saying it's like end phase D'n'D
@@sancheenull420 I'm so lost.
@@TZAR_POTATO he meant for a chara RPG end level of dungeon and dragon style lol
@@TZAR_POTATO it becomes like an elaborate anime fight, with strong spells and strong counters
in dota competitive scene its very fun to watch the waiting moment and the strategy, where they had to solve the problem and how they tackled the threats.
while in league it felt, as if one guy pick one of the hardest champion and managed to pulled it of, it looks awesome (such as akali/yasuo to say the least).
both have its own fun.
but hell i wont grind shit just to experience other champion lmao. no.
Watching league pro game drafts is sometimes like watching captains draft in high school. There's only like 20 viable champs, so people just take turns picking roles :/
@@TZAR_POTATO true. It's alway buffled me that almost every game looks the same with 20 champs pool (syndra, lee sin, ornn hi) that sometimes update to +1 champ after new ones get released. And because of that riot stuck with headache balancing champs that are shit in average games, but absolutely dominating in pro scene because they know how to squeeze everything from the champ.
now that u guys mention it, its true lmao there is only couple champion viable for competitive plays
Treant have a global skill from level 1: Living Armor. You can cast in any friend hero, no matter the range. it´s huge.
Dota is broken in theory. Disclaimer for new players, almost none of these things will ever happen in a real match and/or can be easily countered. But yeah when you look at it in a demo it seems completely op.
Because dota manipulated the game into problem solving, not female hero i win
Never understand it. They battling each other in world full of dangers. How come half of characters women and girls, even little ones...
Glad dota almost don't have it. Though last heroes like some squirrel, granny on lizard etc quite cringy to see too.
I would like dota actually to make heroes design more like dark fantasy like it was in Warcraft 3.
@@yarikyaryi yes
@@yarikyaryiwarcraft is dark fantasy? Ha!
@@oscarozzieozborne5783 Warcraft 3 kinda dark fantasy in some way. But later Warcraft is nothing like that.
@@yarikyaryi Warcraft was and still is Vanilla High Fantasy as it gets. You think that is dark Fantasy? Berserk is gonna break your mind, then.
as someone who has played both games i have to say the *RAMPAGE* sound you get in Dota when you kill all 5 enemy players is so much more satisfying than "pentakill".
Also, the custom announcers and chat lines.
I cried laughing seeing how everything was just escalating more, and getting out of hand. But I saw a couple characters that seemed really fun like ogre magi. Then I treant protector happened and I was like what else could there possibly be
Make sure to watch episode 2!
9:07 and, ofc, there are still (and always will be imo), many and great reasons why Drum n Bass still slaps in a Dota video and why Dota looks so good in a Drum n Bass video! 10/10
and this is exactly what Riot doesn't understand about balance. instead of changing the game every few weeks just make sure everything has a counter.
when everybody is overpowered, then no one is.
Yes in Dota everything is OP but it has very OP counters as well and not only Hero counters. It has playstyle counters see Lich ulti, or item counters see Silver edge to "break" passive abilities see Bristle back or Tide hunter. And invisibility apart from Slarks ult and aghs upgrade is not true invisibility since there exist various items to counter it. Not even talking about hero counters which league is all about. Thing is that Hero counters or champion counters work extremely well IF you are last pick or the enemy has picked a counterable Hero before you.
And that is exactly why I love dota, all things are op. This is a new update tho in the vid you showed, before that when fountain haven’t got buff yet a late game bristle back just run inside the enemy fountain and turn his back the fountain will keep hitting him and his passive will constantly proc and every time an enemy spawn they will just die instantly and bristle back himself take no damage not even a dent in hp bar and he will just stand there and fountain farming, now you can’t do that anymore because fountain dmg has stacks passive which increases dmg for every hit you recive from fountain, but it still do-able just not as cancer and fun as it used to be, plus now after you spawned if you don’t move or press anything you will invulnerable to all dmg.
This is the main issue I had with lol(maybe it changed now, it has been a few years since I played it). Every game is basically the same. For each hero you may get a different set of items, but for that hero it’s always the same builds. Dota has tons of variation because every game you have to counter pick and/or change what items to get based on the other teams hero’s and item builds.
Love how he didnt present any tinker counters XD
stun+burst without cast time
There r no counters vs good tinkers XD
i see this and i dont think : "wow this looks like fun" I think : "wow that must suck to play against"
Then my video was successful!
Jk, it's just a vid for fun, not meant to deliver any message besides "all power must come with checks"
the best quote I've heard is "if everything is overpowered, nothing is overpowered."
I sometimes wish I had a Lotus Orb in League, just imagine the rage of your enemies xD
After watching this video i will never bad talk riot games again when they release a new champion
I love how every character has something ridiculous about them.
and Jakiro just clears a wave
In hindsight I should have used something or someone different there.
Eul's + Stun + upgraded Ult + Q + both On hit attacks melting HP.
I use Jakiro midlane and I eat SF for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Imagine if Veigar's R bounced around like Lich's R lol
2:46 should’ve showed some of the fun interactions such as blinking while in omnislash to continue on far away enemies, or casting it on lotus orb for the anime battle.
Cool TIL
Rubick: Hm, your abilities look pretty cool, why don't I borrow two of em and make em have less cooldown and more range
also do more damage because I have passive ability.
Should've demo'd echoslam on the chaos knight illusions to show the hard counter to the Overpoweredness
What Makes Dota more fun and challenging at the same time is how heroes aren't designed to have the complete kit. Those who stun, usually don't do damage, those who do damage, can't stun. So, that forces you to play with your team to have full combos, rather than every hero just playing for themselves.
awhile ago i played ck and were losing lane
all i did was farm in the jungle until i got my blink and we prettu much wom LMAO
When everyone is super, no one is.
In League, we complain because there is a clear divide in what a 2010 champ can do versus a 2022 champ. Not saying this divide does not exist in DOTA, but that doesn't invalidate complaints about overloaded nonsense.
For an example:
Nasus passive: "INNATE: Nasus gains Life steal icon 11 / 16 / 21% (based on level) life steal."
Bel'Veth passive:
"INNATE: Bel'Veth attacks 36% faster than the median champion and her attack speed cap is modified to 90, but all sources of damage (including On-hit icon on-hit effects) dealt by her basic attacks are reduced to 75%. Her attack speed does not increase through growth (per level).
INNATE: Bel'Veth's ability casts each generate 2 stacks of Death in Lavender, lasting for 5 seconds, refreshing on basic attacks and subsequent casts, and stacking up to 6 times. While Bel'Veth has stacks, she becomes Ghost ghosted and gains Attack speed icon 25% − 50% (based on level) bonus attack speed. Her basic attacks each consume 1 stack.
INNATE: Whenever Bel'Veth scores a Damage rating takedown against a Champion icon champion, Monster icon monster, or Minion icon minion within 3 seconds of damaging them, she generates a permanent stack of Lavender. Minions and monsters that are large generate 1 stack, champions and epic monsters generate 2 stacks.
LAVENDER: For each stack, Bel'Veth gains 0.28% − 1% (based on level) bonus attack speed."
Came here for Doto, stayed for the music. 10/10 would recommend.
Edit: Ah cool, he showed how all that op shit can be countered by shop items xD
Antimage: Scales to insane power levels late game but his primary threat is not in fighting. He has insane mobility and can take a lot of effort to kill him. He clears waves like it's nothing and flash farms the jungle. And if you get yourself stuck on the wrong side of the map of a farmed Antimage and he's got a creep wave at your tower or barracks, bye bye barracks.
Faceless Void: The big purple sphere of "fuck you I win" aka Chronosphere is misleading here. This hero is pitiful early game and needs a good baby sitter. The attack speed/movement buff he gets in the bubble isn't good enough by itself. He needs 6 very expensive items to do what he's doing. He's got Monkey King Bar, 3 fucking Moonshards, and I don't know if he ate more (gives half the attack speed bonus if you consume), and 2 Daedelus. That's a stupidly farmed, Max Level, faceless void vs max level no item heros, and all it takes to stop him in that configuration is a stun. And stuns in dota tend to be death to a character like him. Just pick silencer and press R when you see him swoosh in. He would need to give up an item to get black king bar for spell immunity. Anyway, a stun or silence (any hero can buy and item that does either one) and he's dead. But at level 6, when he gets his ult, he's not very good in it, but it's a great ult on a 2 minute and 10 second cooldown. He needs farm and levels to be badass. The whole team has to fight around this ult if others aren't carrying and you can catch your own team in it, or they can walk into it. Faceless Void plus a bunch of melee team mates is bad news.
Bristle Back: What he is doing there is not likely. Drow can shoot further than that geared, and you build items that proc magic damage vs him. Then his back side uber tankiness vs physical means nothing. But he's strong, no doubt.
Silencer: Mentioned before... His ult is amazing, but what happens when it's over? If you use it too late, your team is dead. If you use it too early your team is dead.
Warlock: His ult is nearly a 3 min cooldown. You have to micro the golems yourself. He's usually a support so refresher orb is gonna take a minute to get. Killing the golems gives money to the other team.
That's all, you get the idea. All this shit is broken at level 30 with the right items. Dota has a lot more high impact active item abilities than league does.