So THATS why in Sonic 2 when you try to force a water level to be 2 players, it doesn’t load 2 screens, it loads one screen but the 2nd player is in the top left corner, the camera is not 1p centered even, and the graphics are EXTREMELY corrupted (though that could be because you’re not loading the right 2p level in the first place, never mind a water level)
@@SilverSonic1992 I remember E-122 first demonstrating the hack... by his admition, water levels were lagging *a lot* without proper code optimization.
@@renakunisaki Sonic 2's multiplayer uses the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive interlace mode to double the vertical resolution (320x448 instead of 320x224), but the aspect ratio is still 4:3, so the image gets squashed.
Interesting. My TV does show the color RAM dots off to the side when the water level h-blank is run, but I didn't realize that was a trade-off with consistent palettes for the transitional lines. I'll have to go back and check up close to see if I can even notice it. The main point of the video is also interesting, I remember using debug mode to go to the opposite routes in Launch Base 2, but it's cool to know they were thinking of a way to support an "air pocket" under water. Probably not a huge challenge but not worth it in the rush to release.
One keeps learning new interesting facts about how these amazing games worked and all of the amazing details that went unused during the process of creating me, thats why i just love to know more about these retro games, excellent video like always! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2025 🎉
@@SilverSonic1992 My guess is that it appears at the wrong scanline or just doesn't appear at all... I'd search it up, but I'm trying to avoid Movie 3 spoilers right now.
The unused water effect seems like the same effect used in Ristar in Round 2. MDTravis also demonstrated the effect in Sonic 1 too: m.ua-cam.com/video/lVtgqrU5mLo/v-deo.html
Ristar darkens the water palette based on depth, this transfers the normal palette as if the water were to end at a certain point. It's not really that similar.
Weird how the water palette doesnt disable once it's above screen, instead it just overlays itself like normal, is it intended in code to actually disable but it just so happens to conflict with other logic for the water? Or is it much more complicated than that...
I don't want to be ignorant but is the Sonic 3 code now open source? Or is this based on the idea it is from the recently surfaced prototypes which include source code? Cool content as usual, thanks
Can you also do a video about how the carnival night background is working? There are two layers, and i don't think genesis could have more than one layer of background?
@some_body_else3636 That's "A" fact. Anyway, Sonic 2 peaks early. Sonic 3 is consistent throughout and only maybe slows down at Carnival Night Zone. Otherwise, it is amazing.
I didn't mean it, but it's just I'm not so familiar with CRT screens because I didn't grow up in that era, and so I didn't get those scientific descriptions. But I really didn't think you'd respond to this, I was just keeping it personal!
I got recommended this and I really wanted to enjoy it because you clearly put real effort into making it but nothing about it made sense to me. I don’t understand the point of this video
So THATS why in Sonic 2 when you try to force a water level to be 2 players, it doesn’t load 2 screens, it loads one screen but the 2nd player is in the top left corner, the camera is not 1p centered even, and the graphics are EXTREMELY corrupted (though that could be because you’re not loading the right 2p level in the first place, never mind a water level)
Yes, SEGA never programmed split screen mode to work with water. It is possible though - see the Sonic 2 VS ROM hack.
That, and the level's graphics have to be constructed with 2P mode in mind.
@@SilverSonic1992 I remember E-122 first demonstrating the hack... by his admition, water levels were lagging *a lot* without proper code optimization.
Did they squish the scene by having separate squished versions of the graphics?
@@renakunisaki Sonic 2's multiplayer uses the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive interlace mode to double the vertical resolution (320x448 instead of 320x224), but the aspect ratio is still 4:3, so the image gets squashed.
as someone once said before,
waiter waiter, more Sonic 3 content please
"The joke is so old now. Just stop!"
what have i started…
Interesting. My TV does show the color RAM dots off to the side when the water level h-blank is run, but I didn't realize that was a trade-off with consistent palettes for the transitional lines. I'll have to go back and check up close to see if I can even notice it.
The main point of the video is also interesting, I remember using debug mode to go to the opposite routes in Launch Base 2, but it's cool to know they were thinking of a way to support an "air pocket" under water. Probably not a huge challenge but not worth it in the rush to release.
Honestly, I wish they had stuck with the wave sprites because they make it look like, you know, actual water.
Agreed.
5:00 I remember that situation occurring when playing around in debug mode as a kid. Now I know what caused the water to look wonky.
One keeps learning new interesting facts about how these amazing games worked and all of the amazing details that went unused during the process of creating me, thats why i just love to know more about these retro games, excellent video like always!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2025 🎉
Thanks! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well!
3:07 Is there any footage of what it looks like there?
Great video, explains why I always noticed 2 player mode kind of flickering. Merry Christmas!
Thank you and Merry Christmas!
My sonic era is coming back 🗣🗣🔥
Eventually, it will ALWAYS come back, again, and again, and again…
A NEW SILVER SONIC VIDEO!!! An unexpected christmas gift that I didnt know I needed
What does the Sonic 3 water system look like on a Genesis 3?
I actually don't know!
@@SilverSonic1992 My guess is that it appears at the wrong scanline or just doesn't appear at all... I'd search it up, but I'm trying to avoid Movie 3 spoilers right now.
Truthfully I don’t remember anything too weird about it when I played on my Genesis 3…
The unused water effect seems like the same effect used in Ristar in Round 2. MDTravis also demonstrated the effect in Sonic 1 too: m.ua-cam.com/video/lVtgqrU5mLo/v-deo.html
Ristar darkens the water palette based on depth, this transfers the normal palette as if the water were to end at a certain point. It's not really that similar.
Huh. Interesting. 🤔
A bit off topic, but its quite interesting to see someone actually able to post a link in a comment
@@mineland8220 Tehehe. My curiousity piqued til I got the real facts lol.
5:39 Is it possible to prevent the palette from switching after the water surface is out of view?
Yes, with some modification.
Welcome back
Thanks.
This guy's whole channel is Sonic 3 Prototype lol
Yes
What happens to the oil wave sprites in Sonic 2?
Question what would be your favorite sonic prototype
Weird how the water palette doesnt disable once it's above screen, instead it just overlays itself like normal, is it intended in code to actually disable but it just so happens to conflict with other logic for the water? Or is it much more complicated than that...
Woah, I was just watching your videos like an hour ago and now this drops. Timing 😅
Are there Action replay codes to place objects in levels or replace a specific object with another (without debug mode enabled)?
I don't want to be ignorant but is the Sonic 3 code now open source? Or is this based on the idea it is from the recently surfaced prototypes which include source code?
Cool content as usual, thanks
It's not open source, but the code has been reverse-engineered.
@@SilverSonic1992 any links?
@@samuelbanya github.com/sonicretro/skdisasm
Can you also do a video about how the carnival night background is working? There are two layers, and i don't think genesis could have more than one layer of background?
Sure, I'll consider it.
Sometimes i wonder if he recorded these videos years ago and are just posting them to youtube
Enjoying all the Sonic 3 content 🙏 if only sega were to remember continuity and cannon
epic video
What does the prototype code say about this?
This code isn't in the prototype.
@@SilverSonic1992in ehat- ehat- IN WHAT build says about that [god my writing is strok9mg- see?? I cant talk]
Its cool, but where sonic neon?
Soon.
Interesting.
6:05 looks illogical.
silver since you know the ym2612 fm chip send some patches x
There's plenty of patches available online.
how about sonic 2 content?
How about no
@CovenantAgentLazarus come on we need some content about the best classic sonic game and that's not an opinion that's a fact
Nope Sonic 3 was the best
@samuelbanya alright then prove it, you can't because sonic 2 has objectively the best level design in a classic sonic game and that's fact
@some_body_else3636 That's "A" fact.
Anyway, Sonic 2 peaks early. Sonic 3 is consistent throughout and only maybe slows down at Carnival Night Zone. Otherwise, it is amazing.
hello.
Not to be mean or anything, but only a genius would be able to understand this video!
What did you find confusing?
I didn't mean it, but it's just I'm not so familiar with CRT screens because I didn't grow up in that era, and so I didn't get those scientific descriptions. But I really didn't think you'd respond to this, I was just keeping it personal!
@@RappidRabbit05 I was just curious because I don't want my videos to be too complicated for the average person to understand.
I got recommended this and I really wanted to enjoy it because you clearly put real effort into making it but nothing about it made sense to me. I don’t understand the point of this video
Weird coding stuff. Basically SEGA scrapped a really complicated code thing for Sonic 3 that relied on CRT TVs working the way they do.
What didn't you understand?
Ok nerd
Erm... Ackshually-
shut up bro, you won't be able to make content this good in a year or two
@@SilverSonic1992 Insert nerd emoji here