My evaluation thoughts on 500 series compressors for bass.
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Updated with audio links to samples below.
Correction: The Chandler is not tube based but it sure sounds like it!
Since 2002 I have been working with singer-songwriters in my area. Often tracking in professional studios but increasingly home-based studios lately. It is not enough to just show up with your bass and expect that the songwriter knows how to get a proper bass tone. You really need to own more than just your bass playing these days. As a result, I started to pay more attention to what professional bassists were using to track their basses. I started with the Sans Amp devices then moved up to a REDDI which sounds amazing. Then followed the trends and got a Noble and a Cali76 which again sounds great. During the pandemic, the only musicians that were still working were the ones with home-based studios. I was already slowly building my studio however the pandemic forced me to complete it. I purchased a Neve 1073 and a Sta-Level compressor which sounded better than everything I purchased prior. I sold the Noble and a bunch of other devices that claimed to be “Neve-like” to fund a 500 series rack.
After much research, I purchased an API-based preamp and EQ and a few 500 series compressors to demo and made notes on each of their sonic traits on bass. My testing is not scientific, but I know exactly what I am looking for and my testing always leads me to what works for my needs. When it comes to tracking, I tend to compress no more than -3 to -4db. However, there are times when I want aggressive compression, and this is when I start to notice the good from the bad devices and where I usually start my testing.
At max compression, most devices will sound thin or get very noisy or distort in a way that is unpleasing to my ear. I always look for compressors that still sound big and massive in extreme settings and if there is any distortion it is more musical where it adds a pleasing grit to the sound which I do not mind on bass and lastly without too much noise. I know this is a lot to ask but some units do rise to the top with all these requirements I look for.
The units I purchased for this evaluation were the Great River 501 based on "Pulse Width Modulation" compression, Neve 535 "Diode Bridge", Neve 543 "VCA", Serpent Splice 1176 "FET", SSL E-DYN MK2 "VCA", IGS ONE LA "Opto", Wes Audio RHEA "Vari Mu", Elysia Xpressor "VCA", Retro Instruments Double Wide, and finally the Chandler Limited EMI TG "Opto" compressor. There were others that I really wanted to try but were unavailable at the time of this evaluation. I hope down the road to include the Shadow Hills Vandergraph, Pete’s Place BAC 500, Crane Song Falcon, and a Distressor. Although the Distressor only comes in 19” rackmount.
One thing I found remarkably interesting is that there is a strong correlation between sound and weight. Except for one unit, the heavier modules rated higher for me sonically.
Unfortunately, I did not have the time to make audio samples of my testing results since all were on loan and had to be returned if I didn't keep them, so these are just my personal thoughts on what I heard while testing each unit. See the links below for other bass samples with the keeper compressors.
Clean Bass Setting
• Nite in Buffalo play-a...
Dirty Bass Setting
• Testing 500 Series Pre...
Live bass play-along (semi-dirty bass setting)
rumble.com/v1v...
this type of content is invaluable.. lots of demos out there - but opinions are few and far between. Love it
Thank you.
Man, I can't thank you enough for your vid. Exactly what I wanted to check out: an opinion on the best 500 series compressor for bass.
Thanks! You can add one more to this list. The Retro Instruments Double Wide. The first edition with the 3 tubes sounds impressive and is a keeper. Just slightly cleaner, thicker, and fuller than the Chandler. The Chandler is still a keeper. Although the Chandler is not tube-based it sure sounds like a tube-based compressor. It's that good.
@@ManCaveStudio awesome, thanks for that tip!
Keep the vids coming. 👍🏾 I'm subscribed 🔔 so I'll see them right away.
You kind of ran off what was good for other instruments, vocals etc..
It would be cool to dedicate an entire vid to that. Or perhaps a vid for each.
If you don't mind, do you have another recommendation for electric guitars?
@@keith-marvk-harrisii8666 I have a few more on the way :)
Very Helpful! Thank You!!
The splice is a 1176 The ability to mix and match Blueface and Blackface input and output stages is amazing. This is an amazing compressor 500 series about $1300 new.
you use the splice currently?
Excellent video!! I was happy to see that you chose to keep the Chandler and the Serpent Splice SA-76. Those happen to be the two of the three 500 series compressors that I’ve owned for a couple years now (along with a Pete’s Place BAC 👹). I couldn’t be more content. The Chandler is great on vocals, as well as bass and synth. The Splice is fun. It sounds very nice and the versatility can’t be beat. I can let you know that you are making a great decision by keeping the Splice and the Chandler. In fact, I sometimes chain those two compressors on vocals with great results. Like the old 1176/LA-2A combo. Have fun and Thanks for the insightful video ✨🤘🏻✨
Very curious about Pete Place. How does that one compare to the others?
@@ManCaveStudio The Pete’s Place BAC is incredible. If I could only own one 500 Series Compressor, that would be the one. It has characteristics of both a FET Compressor and an OPTO. I’m also partial to the color. Incredible mojo. However, the BAC can not really do the “clean” thing like the Splice SA-76 does. Luckily, I’m fortunate enough to have the BAC, The SPLICE, and the CHANDLER OPTO. They all get a lot of use. The Chandler has a very special color. BAC wins a lot on bass. My favorite vocal chain is an Electrodyne 501 or Phoenix preamp into the BAC Compressor, and the through the Chandler as well. That chain sounds great with the Splice substituted for the BAC as well. I’ll be looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the BAC, My Friend. Take Care ✨🎧✨
@@backtozerowithlove what is your chain for tracking bass?
@@ManCaveStudio Good Morning, My Friend ✨🤘🏻✨ Happy New Year 💥🎧💥 The most essential part of my bass chain starts with the DI Box. It’s a piece of gear that I wouldn’t trade for the world: The REDDI DI BOX from A-Designs. That beast of a box has eliminated the need for me to even use a bass cab. I Love just going direct now. The REDDI has real magic. If I’m going for my beefiest, most impressive bass sound the chain is as follows: REDDI DI Box into the Great River 500NV (using XLR input, not DI). Then, I put it through one of the Compressors, usually the PETE’s PLACE BAC. Splice is still great in this chain, as is the Chandler. I would say the Bass through the BAC has more weight and mojo than the other Compressors. However, the REDDI DI BOX is the magic unit that is enhancing the Bass sound most for me in the chain💥🎸💥 I saw in your video that you are happy with the Great River 500NV. That’s great news! It’s a very useful pre to have.
Hi, Im using a 67 into a RFZ, Api 512v or 1073 into a Lake People V4 comp (similar to the rare 1178 , tho with a more transparent out trans) on female vocals , if You had to choose Chandler or Splice bearing in mind all my vocals & tracks tracks go to another guy for mixing & Mastering, he usually runs through a CL1B for mixing & sometimes a Pultec for Mastering.. ideally I wish I could get my Mic sounding a little more like a Modern Telefunken U47 with out having to buy one :)
You should give the Acme XLA500 a go!
Pro tip: bass guitar into a DBX 560 then into the IGS One LA. You will thank me later.
Nice! Thanks for the tip!
@@ManCaveStudio Also try vocals into the Serpent on blue channel them into One LA in limit mode. That One LA is sleeper just have to put something in front of it to get its full potential
Bass sounds great on IGS.
Surprised you weren't digging
the IGS. I absolutely love it on vocals after 1176. Horses for courses I spose.
I am only using these modules for bass. I am sure I would have come to a different conclusion if I were using these for vocals.
@@ManCaveStudioAh yes, I'd forgotten about the application. I've been having superb results on bass with a Pete's Place BAC500 for shaving peaks, but am considering running that in series with something smooth on the end - a Retro Doublewide or a Serpent Chimera perhaps.
@@AntisocialMediaMike I've heard great things about the Pete's Place compressor.
@@ManCaveStudio It's a beauty. Would like to swap it out for my 76 on vocals in front of the IGS 1LA but it's just so useful on bass that I haven't had the heart to do it. Really liking the look of your Wes Audio RHEA! I dunno man, so many boxes and so little time!😀
Have you got a 'go to' for snare? Reason I'm asking is that I've one space left in my most recent chassis (and am also thinking of selling my Tegeler vocal leveller so that gives me two free spaces), and want to get some different flavour in there. Quite like the look and sound of the Splice (have you tried yours on snare?), and the Neve 2264alb as well as the Chandler little devil. Any thoughts?
Next of my try list
Compressors
Electrodyne Pete’s Place BAC-500 Fet Compressor 500-Series
Crane Song Falcon Single-Channel 500-Series Tube Compressor
Shadow Hills Industries Dual Vandergraph 500 Series Stereo Compressor
Pre-Amps
SHADOW HILLS INDUSTRIES MONO GAMA MICROPHONE PREAMP
Retro Instruments 500PRE 500-Series Microphone Preamplifier (500PRE)
Crane Song Syren Microphone Preamp (SYREN)
The Xpressor has a 'Gain" knob to control the output
The gain knob did not provide what i needed when compared to a compressor with a dedicated output knob.
nice video... but that's an Avedis MA5, not an API preamp
I'm aware of that now.
Great video good info. Thanks
Thanks!
Cool video!
Thank you!
splice is really great on bass guitar in my experience. but i didn't care for it on any other sources so i didn't keep mine.
At least you confirmed my findings :)
If u like gritty optos, and controls Maybe the Comp by Joe meek Is your flavour
They have a 500 series?
@@ManCaveStudio yass, pre with de esser and transformer, optocomp and eq
When your saying “no output control” are you referring to input gain so you can push in more level to the compressor? Because elysia has an “output control”
The unit I had, had no output control. Take a look for yourself. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/xpressorN500--elysia-xpressor-neo-500-series-class-a-stereo-compressor
@@ManCaveStudio I know the unit I have one myself the output control will be knob labelled gain. You can use it as make up gain or to increase the output level of the unit.
@@JMPMusicOffical that gain feeds the input of the compressor. I need a separate output control which my other favored comps include.
@@ManCaveStudio the gain does not feed the input of the compressor it is for the output stage (comes after the compression circuit) I have the xpressor. Please read the manual can be downloaded or comes with the unit. It is listed as make up gain to compensate for loss of signal level after compression. So can be used as make up or to drive the output stage louder.
@@JMPMusicOffical Then if that is the case it didn't have the output of the Chandler and the Retro. Sounded very good just not enough beef in my testing.
Does the tg opto work ok in the r10?
I haven't had any issues however someone did mention to me that there was a noise issue with the TG. If I crank the gain on my mixer the noise floor on the TG is not as quiet as my other compressors. I need to contact Chandler to see if there has been any updates on this.
How would the Great River NV for vocals I heard great things about it
As I mentioned for bass it was very transparent. So transparent I couldn't tell if it was on or off. However, I think this might be a good thing for vocals. So I would give it a try.
Really appreciate your comments on these units, but you mistakenly said the neve 1073 inspired MA5 with Jensen transformers was API, but the API 312 or even 512 preamp (both 2520 opamp and transformers) is a different circuit topology.
I bought the MA5 direct from Avedis and he told me the MA5 was his take on the API.
@@ManCaveStudio The Ma5 is transformer based with carnhill-style input transformer, a custom Jensen output transformer, and a Motorola 2N3055 which makes a very Neve 1073 like character. The API design has transformers, but the circuit is based around the 2520 opamp.
@@bobbyhofermusic then the owner of the company lied to me. Not sure why he would do that.
Hope you can answer this. I know it’s been a while. I need a clean comp for tracking, I guess it doesn’t need to be transparent but clean enough. Maybe light color. Which of all of these would you recommend? I plan to get the color from plug-in compressors.
If you have more than one option, it’s cool.
@@torta122 the Chandler, Retro, Serpent and Neve all work perfectly in clean mode so you would do well with any of those 4. When pushed harder that's when these four start to show thier differences. The cleanest of the 4 would be the Serpent Splice and the Neve 543 in my opinion.
I agree with Ricardo. The Splice can get you from quite clean to quite gritty. It’s a truly versatile box. However, the price is higher than some of the other modules. I still say it’s well worth it, especially if you’re just investing in one compressor that can do it all.
@@backtozerowithlove Thanks for the info
@@torta122 You got it ✨🤘🏻✨
Hi! Is that R10 rack well powered?
There is a meter letting you know if you are reaching it's power limit. So far I have never reached max power usage.
@@ManCaveStudio Even with the One La?
@@preciseaudioblog The One LA did not make the cut when I reviewed all the compressors so it didn't spend much time in the R10. All I can say is in the short time the One LA lived in the R10 there were zero power issues.
@@ManCaveStudio Good to know the 10 is reliable. Thank you 👍
Hi! Do you think that a 500 series module sacrifices sonics versus a rack mount unit, for a example a compressor?
I have only done a direct comparison with the BAE 500 series and the rack version and I could tell no difference. At some point, I will compare the others. However I am coming from the mindset of portability, And this 500 series beats the standalone DI and portable pedal setup I was using prior.
@@ManCaveStudio I’m absolutely with you on that... the portability of 500 series is fenomenal... but I wouldn’t like to lose fidelity, if the case
Great vid! Have you tried the Igs 576?
Not yet however I did try the IGS one la 500 and I did not like it.
@@ManCaveStudio Yes, I heard that on your vid. It’s weird bc I’ve heard good comments of it and of IGS in general
@@preciseaudioblog in my application which was for bass it just didn't work out however I think in other applications where you want something very clean and not interested in pleasing musical sounding breakup then you should be fine.
@@preciseaudioblog vocals
Which IGS compressor did not make the cut to this finalist list?
The One LA 500. At least for bass it did not sound as good as the others to my ears.
For electric guitar which was number one?
I would choose the Chandler for guitar.
How about for acoustic guitar strumming ?
What’s the best one for vocals to you male vocals
Neve 543 or Splice
@@ManCaveStudio appreciate the info
1176 (Splice) to hit the transients followed by an LA2A or 3A for vocals is the classic rock chain.
I still cannot wrap my head around the myth that 500 series gear is cheaper than rack gear. I've been 90% 500 series until recently. I've sold most of it, and went back to 19" rack. Everything is cheaper outside the 500 rack, which is really weird.
Also - great video.
Thank you!
Yeah like the FMR really nice compressor. The rack is about $180 and the 500 module costs $300. I guess it's the space that people are looking for.
@@outdatedgear5036That's a great example!
I live in another country and the delivery of a 19 inch rack is much more expensive than the 500 serie module, so actually not really a myth.
the MA5 is def not an api preamp
I may have been mislead on that comment.
Damn, No examples?
Yes but it was more an overall sound test and not a per unit test. ua-cam.com/video/Cir86hN8sdc/v-deo.html
Great information! Thanks 🙏🏿