As a dealer at Nashville's oldest full line music store, I find it troubling when a giant brand like Fender raises its price 5 times in 2 or 3 years. The economy definitely plays a huge factor in what people buy these days. I do worry that manufacturers will out price their products for not just dealers but consumers. I think service is the difference in what makes a store successful or not.
I work for a large music chain, and I completely agree with you. Customer service is the thing that will keep guitar stores around. That and the fact that musicians will always want to try before they buy.
I do think this is an issue, in particular with Fender. I know the things that contribute to higher cost guitars, labor, cost of labor and operation in the country of the manufacturer, materials, how time consuming different processes can be, etc. Honestly Fender almost exclusively make only the guitars that are quick and easy to manufacture, they have USA made guitars but also guitars that are made in other countries where costs are much less, a lot of their parts, electronics, components, etc. aren't top tier, their woods are mostly inexpensive. I get that everything is more expensive than it used to be but it really seems like Fender has taken this to the extreme and feels like they're trying to squeeze more money out of products. How many sales have they had on various products recently trying to offer them at a lower price because they have so much inventory?
@@ChrisEck13 I wonder if they’re trying to market their brand to be equal to Gibson, so that they can match pricing. We all know that the Fender is cheaper to produce, but if the focus is more on “premium-izing” the brand, the product doesn’t really matter. I don’t see buying an American Fender new anytime soon. Maybe not even one produced in Mexico I say this when I certainly don’t need any more guitars 😅
this take makes no sense lol. by your thinking here, wouldn't guitar center (mid- to low-qualty service experience) be barely surviving while a shop like Carter Vintage (good) is taking the industry by storm? I think it's incredibly naive to have this conversation without analyzing the role of profits, market share, and share value in this industry. according to the rubric of today's economy, the "best" guitar shops are the ones that make the most money, period. there's no magical ingredients or special experience that gives companies an edge - this is simply a matter of who can exploit 19 year-old musicians who need money between tours and who chooses the most successful (read: manipulative) advertising strategy, etc.
As a shopper, I think service means a lot more than just the employees doing customer service too. To me service is also the experience at your store. If I want to try an amp, how hard is it for me to find a cable, find a guitar that is actually in tune, and find the amp I want to try already hooked up to power? And is the store designed in such a way that I feel invited to do this and have just enough privacy to sit and fiddle with the gear for a minute? Also is the store designed well enough acoustically that I can hear what they heck I'm doing? I've definitely had where I didn't even bother trying something at the store because of these factors, went home and continued researching the product online.
Andertons are bloody great. Many years ago (20+) I went in to buy a brand new acoustic. They advised me to buy a second hand Takamine they had instead. I still play that guitar every day. They gave me great advice then and ever since.
Andertons is great if you play guitar they suck if you play bass. I was under the impression they cared about basses since they create bass videos all the time. They have 30 or so basses on display in a store where they have at least 1000 guitars on display. It was a massive waste of time going to their store to look at basses. Going to a music store and forming relationships with the flour staff is the best way to buy instruments.
Used to live in Surrey and Andertons gave me lots of amazing experience in buying music gears. Bought a Fender Tele, Fender Mustangs, and Keys & MIDI for wife but the best one I had when they let me try the high end acoustic guitars (Martin, Gibsons, Taylors) for several hours. Ended up going home with my Taylor 314-ce which has given me a lot of great experiences in music. It is worth the visit!
Back in the 80s, there was a guitar shop in Atlanta called Clark's that was as much a social scene as it was a retail shop, especially on a Saturday where you'd likely see someone from just about every local band drop in just to hang out and touch base with everyone else. They sold Fender, Gibson, Gretsch and Peavey, and always had an eclectic collection of used gear. Social scene or not, I dropped A LOT of money there over the years. They closed when the big boxes came to town, and there hasn't been a place like that since. A damned shame.
How's everyone doing ? I live in Cortland NY . Upstate . I worked at a Guitar Shop that was exactly as you described the Store you were talking about . I'd known the 2 owners for a few years before I worked for them so they trusted me to take home and return anything in the Store I wanted . Unfortunately , the older of the 2 owners , Steve , in his early 60s , went to lunch at Wendy's , didn't come back . I got a phone call a couple of hours later telling me Steve had passed away while standing in line for food . He was one of the nicest , old fashioned Gentleman I ever knew . Then the other owner shut down the Store . That was about 10 years ago and we no longer have any kind of Music Store in my medium size town . I've ordered a few things from Amazon , Musicians Friend , I've looked at Reverb but found it confusing . So I haven't actually been in a real Guitar Store in 10 years . Kind of a bummer . Wow . I definitely didn't mean to ramble on for so long . I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe . 🎸
I feel really fortunate to have 6 guitar shops within 15 min of my work that I can stop by and visit on my lunch break from work. Thank you Rochester, NY.
“We don’t have that but we can order it for you.” Edit: I do want to commend Lee Of Anderson’s for saying that one of his tenants of running a great retail store is having everything you want to sell in stock. This is one of the many reasons they are succeeding while others are sinking.
@@breadnaut3087 Its a bummer for sure. I LOVE being able to be in the room and "feel" the stuff I'm buying. The tone on an amp, let's say, is only part of it. How does it feel on my fingers? How does it respond to palm mutes etc... I've grown custom to buying on reverb from someone with a return policy and going through 2-3 options until I find what I like. If I'm feeling rich I order all of them at the same time and just return what I don't want. I suspect the days of that approach are prob numbered.
So you fall for that and wait. When you go in to collect it, they can't find it. Who did you speak to? Oh, he doesn't work today, can you come back when he's here? You do that and wait while they search. One long wait and three store visits to get your item isn't an experience worth repeating. Or you arrive and find that because you'd ordered something new that they hadn't come across before, they unboxed it in order to "check it" for you. Now you have an open box item you paid full price for, that you know will be covered in dirty finger marks, from hands that probably haven't been washed after a toilet trip or a bollocks scratching session.😷
Conversely, I have 600$ invested in three products in the last four months I ordered on line and did not return due to inconvenience and mailing access and schedule
Steve’s Music in Montréal will always have a special place in my heart as it’s where I bought two 14 inch bass amp speakers for my Bassman 50 when I was 14. That was in 1974. Still go there. Also, picked up two cool Boss pedals for 10 bucks at the Brimfield antique show!
I grew up in the Chicago suburbs where we had a Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Guitars Plus and a few smaller shops. Pre internet, pre cell phone, my friends and I would make the rounds between all of the stores as teens and in our 20's. I remember jam sessions breaking our between employees and customers that were epic. You were able to put a band together by meeting local musicians in person. They would host clinics by our favorite guitar heroes like Dimebag and George Lynch. I went to a meet and greet with Nuno Benttencourt in the early 90's at Guitars Plus. The stores just stopped being busy and this cool when the internet happened. Now they're mostly empty when I go check them out. Things really changed with the internet.
"The internet can never replace a person" yeah, but it doesn't have to. I don't order from Sweetwater. I order from Devin at Sweetwater. They have really nailed how to garner allegiance to an online presence
They sure have. The 3 things that Lee suggested are things that Sweetwater do. John is my sales specialist. When I’ve had a piece of gear that hasn’t worked I have never had a problem exchanging it. If it turns out I just didn’t like something I never had a problem returning it. I’ve never had a lousy experience. I’ve had a lot of lousy experiences at my local Guitar Center where certain employees made it feel like they were doing me a favor. I’ve decided I don’t need to give them thousands of my dollars.
I live in Canada and I shop at fucking Sweetwater just because of their service. And more than once, after the exchange rate, import taxes and shipping, I STILL saved money, compared to buying it in Canada. A few cases I saved as much as 20%. And their 2 year guaranteed support is fricking hard to beat with the knowledge they have. Brook texts me every month or two just to check in, even if I haven't bought anything in a while.
Excellent point. More than just being a place to order from, which there are hundreds of all at the same price, they really do excel at the customer service. I feel very comfortable conversing with the same sales person every time and the only one time I had to return a damaged piece, they were amazing about it. It only takes being dealt with poorly ONE TIME and you may never deal with that place again. SW, or Ty, he's my guy, has never let me down.
I have 15 guitars now. I have bought a couple of guitars online from Thomann (both are great), but all the rest are from guitar shops around London. The difference is that with most of those, I left with a guitar that wasn’t the one I thought I was going to buy. There is always something different that looks and feels better in real life than the one I had in my head / imagination. So that’s something that would never happen online. Pedals however I have usually bought online after extensive research. I don’t feel comfortable asking to try pedals in guitar shops, and they aren’t usually very accessible. Special mention to Andertons and Wunjo Guitars. They are always friendly and helpful and will get my business as long as they stay open. In short, I hope guitar shops NEVER die.
I just spent 3 hours at a nearby Music Go Round. I sold them about 15 pieces of gear (almost all of which I’d bought online) and spent most of the time demoing amps. I left happy, with the knowledge that I’d actually picked my favorite option in my price range. But I bought a dark horse, and was disappointed by the amps I expected to love (based on reviews online). That’s not unusual, and highlights the significance of trying gear in person. I wish brick and mortar stores would survive, even thrive, so more of us could make gear choices based on actual experience, rather than reviews by people with different ears and preferences than we have.
I feel like guitar shops need a strong online presence, but I think they also need to make the shop the place to go. I hear stories all the time from the past that people would just go and hang out at shops because it was cool and that magic has kind of gone away. Granted, times and people have changed, but it would be awesome for more shops to present a much more welcoming vibe for people to actually want to go there
I started collecting guitars in 2014. The greatest factor has been economics. Zzounds offering 12-month interest free purchases has made it easy for me to get what I want. However, there's nothing like trying a guitar or gear in person. I've done several trades with Guitar Center and our local Music Go Round. However, I recently made the trek to Moore Guitars in Evansville, Indiana, and being in a legit guitar shop brought back so much joy. Holding something for the first time and meshing with it before commitment is very special. Therefore, I am somewhere in between. I live in Saint Louis City, and we don't have shops with new gear, mostly vintage. Convenience will often overshadow the moral obligation.
For probably a decade I ordered all of my new gear from Sweetwater. Recently I moved to a smaller town with an awesome little guitar shop. It is like a guitar swap meet. They do fair trades and have a ton of used pedals. So now I go there for my guitar needs.
My local guitar shop, Guitar Factory Parramatta, has been operating since before I was born. I love going and spending a couple of hours trying guitars and amps, because that's when you discover the thing that JHS Show has been teaching us for years, the thing that makes the sound that inspires you is the thing that you need in your rig. Sure, the internet is great for research, but nothing beats the long-term relationship I have with the guys at my store.
Great subject, glad you raised it! I worked for a very large electronics distribution company in the UK for 15yrs from 1995-2010 in sales, purchasing and warehouse manager, we imported thousands of music, sound, lighting electronics and imported all over the world supplying only wholesalers & retailers, not to the public. When I first started we supplied thousands of high street music and electronics retailers worldwide, sadly over a few years I’ve seen so many big companies close and go bust and it was all down to the internet, basically so many one man bands sat in their office at home built websites and always under cut high street retailer prices, therefore winning a lot of the business, what frustrated me was these one man websites never even handled the products the end user purchased, they would receive their order online, take payment and order direct from our company and get us to send the goods direct to their customer, obviously they had no over heads like retail stores so could make much smaller margins for doing very little. Sadly this ruined the high street stores especially music stores! As now there really is virtually no music / guitar stores left in the UK, I live in Manchester a huge city with a great music history,bands. and musicians. I try not to buy from the internet and try to support the very few music shops left, I’d rather pay a bit more money to buy from a retail store, trying the goods before purchasing and good customer and importantly after sales service when buying music products to myself is incredibly important. Internet sales sadly especially in the UK destroyed the industry and hasn’t been there for years in the UK! Too many big companies went bust and closed down owing our company thousands which was very sad to see so many great companies go. If I do buy anything online then I always try to buy direct from the manufacturer or direct from the brand head office as having worked in purchasing I can usually wangle it buying direct even if they don’t sell direct to the public. I always try and support my local guitar stores primarily as they are really struggling and very few and far between nowadays. Unfortunately people want products next day and at lowest price possible now, I wish they would realise how this has crippled the industry badly and will end up back firing on the public in the long run, customer service and after sales is definitely a huge part of a music product and worth paying more for in my view.
I apologize in advance for the long comment, but this topic really speaks to me for several reasons. I've been working in the MI industry since 1997, working 3 days a week in a small family-operated music retailer in my hometown, while still attending school. I then did a 2,5 year apprenticeship in that very store, learned and did everything from sales, purchase, guitar repair, building instruments etc. I was lucky to have a bunch of folks working there who had infinite knowledge about stuff that I soaked in constantly. I never really left the industry, worked at other retailers, distributors, manufacturers and so on. These days, my main job is still within MI and I have a pedalbuilding side-business. You said something very true in this livestream: The issues are manifold and they have to do a lot with the different regions of the world and within countries. I live in Europe (Germany to be precise) and I have seen guitar stores dying a lot in the past 10 years. Some of them actually because of the internet (they refused to participate, didn't see the value in having an online sales channel etc.), but others went away because of their profile. A lot of stores were started by former musicians who, at some point, saw themselves confronted with the fact that making a living with music is a difficult thing if you want a certain standard and consistency in life. But they also didn't want to stop hoarding gear and needed to justify that to their partner and friends. So they started a guitar store. What a great idea! Some of these guys are still around, because they picked up the business mentality along the way. Others however went away since they didn't pick it up and they thought they would be living forever on their regular customers, people coming in from their region to get the usual supplies and some new gear etc. But in the meantime other retailers with a real focus on scaling their business grew massively and made it easier for people to buy via phone, online or through other modern channels. These large sellers are now able to offer a better service on a distance than some of the local stores, which actually sounds insane when you think about it! Now there is a situation where those retailers who survived the internet, heavy competition and all the above mentioned will retire soon and in a lot of cases there's no one taking over the business, which means less stores to go to. Another important factor is store staff. It is difficult to get people, which has been an issue for a few years now. You're certainly not becoming rich and famous working in a guitar store (well, famous sometimes at least), so the income portion is one thing. Some guys also have a weird expectation of what "working in a guitar store" is (hence the comment on "max volume guitar solo by GC employee). And the other part is that someone who is new to the matter needs to be educated well by his superior. I don't see this happen a lot these days, people are rather seen as cheap helpers for easy tasks. If I then walk into a guitar store and come up with some serious questions in order to make a purchase decision and the person in front of me knows less than myself, it won't create a great experience for me. I could go on and on about this, since there's so much more to it, but I will leave it with these words. Thanks for making such great content and dig into topics like this, it's really important!!!
All I had was guitar center here in Fredericksburg, Virginia. They opened 20 years ago and shut down the 2 mom and pop stores we had. Now the internet is starting to do the same to the big guys. I recently discovered a new shop with knowledgeable people and things I want to buy! It was a good feeling discovering this place I could drive to in 20 min, sit down in the shop, and try gear. I felt like a kid again 😂
I love the idea of music stores, but the reality is that my budget is limited. If a shop provides a community center and is locally owned, I’ll pay 10% more to buy from them, but not 30%. Thanks for the conversation! Oh and I just paid perfect circuit for a new Chase Bliss pedal, because I experienced good customer service and wanted to reward that, and paid a little more than the used pedal I planned to buy. they gave me 10% off when I asked. Nice people.
Being into more niche stuff within an already niche hobby, I have a hard time finding things that I'm looking for at my local shops, BUT I still enjoy going and I'll always give it a shot to buy what I'm looking for there first. Sweetwater makes it so easy and their customer service is so excellent, it is often tempting to just automatically go to them.
The timing of the episode could not be any better. My favorite local guitar store has decided to shut its doors for good as of the end of May. Ultimately the owner decided to go a different route with his business ventures. Great guy and team he had with him. This was a very small store and the ability to go in and test equipment is such a must for me. They were also great at tweaking my guitars to my liking and we're always up for trying to get the best feel for me as the customer. If you're someone who likes to tinker a lot with gear you currently own or picking up new gear, the local guitar shop is a special place .
Thank you Josh! This video Stream was awesome! I’ve made my living for over 20 years playing music. This year an opportunity for us to buy a local store that has been a staple in our community for 84 years, and we jumped. You put into words and articulated so well so many of the things that I have been intuitively thinking and feeling. As a former buyer of gear, I’m hoping to take this wisdom into helping other musicians fall in love with making music and finding great gear.
Hey Josh! Thought you might like my insight. I live in London, Ontario, Canada. I ran a guitar shop here for 20 years. I shut it down in 2010. I gave it my all but it was a sinking ship. I blame it on video games. Glad I got out when I did. These days players can have things delivered to their door. The largest chain in Canada is Long & McQuade. They are the exclusive dealer on everything. A few years ago it was full of Gibsons. A week ago I saw only two. I was one of two customers on a Saturday afternoon. Sad. Your show reminds me of what I miss most about my shop, talking about gear and the friends and bands that were created out of it. Thanks for your show.
I’m 60 and in the jewelry business. And this is what I’ve seen the last 20 years and I think it goes hand in hand with this video. In the past, manufacturers sold to wholesalers who sold to retailers who then sold to the end user. Then, manufactures started cutting out the wholesalers, selling direct to the retailer, killing many, many businesses. Now, the manufacturers are cutting out the retailers and selling direct to the end user either direct or setting up retail stores. I think the shame of this is the guitar shops are so important. In addition to selling product, they also do set ups and do the maintenance on my guitars that I cannot do myself. But, it’s it just so damn easy to order on line. I’m surprised that a company like yours, which is relatively new, does not sell direct. But, you fall into the direct to retailer, which today is fantastic. But at some point, you may start to think, instead of selling my $99 pedal to sweetwater for $49, I can sell it to Rob in Huntington, for $79. Saves me money. And you make more. That’s the logic driving this change. I don’t know if you agree with this assessment, but it seems to me the direction we are going. And like everything else, there’s some pluses and some minuses
A massive issue is many brands require shops to buy an array of products, even if only specific models are selling. Fender, Charvel, Jackson, etc. they require a certain amount of guitars to be purchased by a shop to maintain a contract. Shops would survive buy selling only what is popular, but manufacturers actually stop that from being possible. Furthermore, in shop is always best, no two guitars sound the same
One of the best episodes yet. These are the types of questions and discussions that help contribute towards the common good in society; understanding what/where/when/why/how. So much to unpack. #Gratitude
Wow that made me think. 25 years ago i tried to start a mail order company just for pedals only to find out that nobody was willing to supply me. I do think you missed out the guitar mags influence for a shory time in the 80s. Well done great episode
We had a guitar store open two years ago in my city and they are moving to a larger building. And a town about thirty minutes away is a guitar store that’s been around for years got new ownership a couple years ago and now they’ve move to a larger location and is getting more business. I’m hoping this is a sign of revival for guitar stores in the future.
I love walking into a store and seeing lots of different types of guitar. But new guitars are expensive, so most of my guitar purchases are eBay or reverb or online deals from the major (UK) stores. I occasionally buy a pedal or accessory from a physical store. I recently had the pleasure of happening upon Macari’s new premises. I’ve never felt so welcome in a guitar shop. They knew I didn’t have the money for a guitar but they let me try stuff, treated me to a whole bunch of history and stories, and I left with a Colour Sound Fuzz and Macari’s t-shirt. I spent more than I planned to, but I got more out of the experience than I spent.
A change I've made to better support my guitar shops is that I try to limit my gear purchases to when I travel. I make it a point to visit whatever the good guitar shops are wherever I go. It's a cool experience, you get to meet cool like-minded people, you get to try stuff in person, and occasionally you can even find a nice bargain on a used item. Even if I don't walk away with a new pedal or something, I try to at least get some strings or something to help out, though by limiting my gear acquistion mostly when I travel, I'm more likely to walk away with something new I'm excited about and help out these local stores. A good way to do this research is to find what gear companies operate out of different states, and look at who their dealers are. You can usually triangulate who the cool local shops are. :) This is how I found Eastside Music Supply!
This is such a great point! You will discover magical music shops and stunning deals if you look for indie stores as you travel and keep an eye out for whatever unusual gear they're looking to move.
Thank you for the great episode Josh. I’m 59 years old and I play guitar since I’m 12 years old. Not a professional, but certainly an advanced amateur and gear nerd. I remember buying my first real electric guitar. I was 17 and badly wanted a Stratocaster because Richie Blackmore played one. It was 1981 and I went to a local music shop in a medium size town in Germany where I was living back then. They had three Fender guitars in store: two Strats and a Telly. I still see them as it was yesterday. I had money from a summer job and some financial help from my mother. So I was 17 and certainly on a budget. I didn’t know nothing about gear back then. So two Strats hanging there: one in a beautiful yellow, one in natural finish. The natural finish was more expensive. Here comes the vendor: bad hair, cheap tie, the kind that usually sells Farfisa organs and Hohner nylon guitars to beginners. So I ask him why the natural guitar is more expensive. He makes this expert face, seems to think hard and then says: it’s the body, look at the body. One is massive wood, the yellow one is synthetic. The 17 year old boy who was already falling in love with the yellow one goes like: oh…😢 I certainly don’t want a plastic Strat… but I certainly don’t want that uncool natural finish that looks like our dinner table. So I ended up buying the cream Telecaster… More than 35 years later. I’m living in Lisbon Portugal now. There is that small but fine guitar shop here called MrJack Guitars. He was a dealer for Tokai guitars back then. As a nerd I knew that Tokai made (and still make) some of the best guitars in the business. So he had received a batch of LP copies. I go there and there are three beautiful “Love Rock” models in violin burst. I go there on a week day, I was the only customer in the shop. Three apparently identical guitars. The owner lets me try them without any pressure. They look equal. But I always come back to that same one. It has something. It speaks to me. We bond. I buy it. Still love it. Even resisted to mod it (which I almost always do). The music store of my youth with the smeary vendor has closed his door for many years. MrJack Guitars has grown and is expanding. Changed to bigger locations twice during the last years. So what’s my message? You can’t buy a fine guitars online. Wood is an organic material. Even if you have 10 apparently identical guitars, you’ll feel a difference if you have enough experience. Slight differences in the way the neck is shaped, the pickups, how it reacts to your playing… So you have to buy them in a shop, you have to touch and play them. If you do a good job as a shop owner and shop staff then you still are going to survive in the online world.
I worked for Sam Ash on LI in the early 2000's, then Manny's in NYC for a while, it was the Guitar Center franchise that crushed all the local shops and it was deliberate. Then came the internet.
I’m still very much a beginner and I came across the Anderton’s UA-cam channel a couple of years ago. The advice and opinions on there from Lee and Danish Pete has been invaluable and inspiring, so when I was looking for a new guitar I headed to their shop. The advice I had from the Anderton’s team while I was there was amazingly helpful. Since then I’ve felt a real loyalty to them, and will drive over 2 hours to them again when I buy my next guitar.
The beauty of Andertons (I assume, I'm in the US) is that you can actually find things there. The Guitar Center locations, and most stores I've been in lately, only have a few brands. They technically carry 100 brands, but have 4 on display. It's pointless.
When I finally graduated to electric guitar at age 13, I went to Gemco in San Diego. It was a department store that had a record section - on the wall above the records were guitars. I had $75 that I’d saved up for a year to get the natural finish Strat copy. I wrote the stock number down, went to the cash register and handed them my cash. My mom and I were directed to a door on the outside of the store, handed them a slip of paper and the handed me a cardboard box. When I got it home and opened it, it contained a plywood sunburst Teisco del Ray that never once managed to be in tune. I was too shy and too stupid to bring it back and ask for the guitar on the wall. If I had more info (it was the 70s - no internet), I would have gone to Freedom Guitar and got a decent second-hand American instrument for the same price. My second electric was a Les Paul copy from the Sears catalog. Again, horrible quality and also never played in tune. Since then, I’ve bought them in guitar shops or directly from luthiers.
I remember Gemco, predecessor to big box stores. Never bought music stuff there. Bought first and 2nd guitars from Guitar Showcase in San Jose back in the eighties.
I love going to guitar shops, but I don't buy gear anymore. Guitar as a passion and a hobby has evolved, and I now consider myself to be a maker, not just a musician. As such, most of my gear purchases are for components, not finished products. This livestream has made me want to go to my local guitar shop and buy some strings and picks or something.
The musicians friend catalogs were golden. I used to bring those to school and my friend and I would sit there and circle all the gear we wanted with a pen...good times before the smart phone!
I think there is an opportunity to change the way a guitar shop works. Northern Guitars in Leeds is brilliant. Guitars, coffee, beer and live music. Genius. There's a shop near me in Essex that still operates on appointment only basis. This means I cant just browse and make a spontaneous purchase. If you go in with an appointment you feel pressured, if you walk out without buying you can feel the eyes burning in the back of your head. There was an old place that used to have a free coffee machine and it was as much a social hub as a guitar shop, there was a real community feel and people would pop in on Mondays to talk about their gigs at the weekend and it was a real community vibe. The way the workers treated us there meant that whatever I was looking for I'd buy it there regardless. Obviously having a decent stock is important too. I love guitar shops and hope they don't die but feel a lot of them need to do more to build a community with the musicians in the area.
Since I started going into guitar shops in the 70’s my favorite thing was shops that had lots of used guitars. Used guitars Im not crazy about buying unless I can hold and play them first.
Not for music shop reasons, but you’re hitting the nostalgia buttons hard for me here. Also grew up on a working farm, also remember that very special experience of ordering from a catalog and getting something delivered from far away to my home in the middle of nowhere. It’s so easy now, but nothing in today’s purchase experience can beat that amazing feeling of the 2 or 3 times a year the UPS truck showed up; getting a package was crazy special & exciting! Now it’s just a box this week’s stuff like ibuprofen & wasp spray. Which is just another way of saying - I now go to brick and mortar establishments (including restaurants and grocery stores) with the same regularity the UPS truck came when I was a kid, 2 or 3 times a year. In most cases, it’s not about the convenience, it’s the experience of the wide range of selection that’s killed in-person shopping for me. And I’ll preface my next statement by saying, I get it, I worked in food service for almost a decade, you’re getting paid like shit, so I don’t have an expectation of high customer service, I truly don’t, and anyone who’s had a job interacting with the public knows how thankless and sh*tty that is, much solidarity to all of you gutting it out in service jobs. Preface said, because of the poor pay for retail and service jobs, the experience of dealing with someone incredibly knowledgeable and helpful at a brick & mortar location, at any point in my life, has been so infrequent as to be almost mythological. We might have one experience or know one store like that and romanticize it and expect it, then feel disappointment when it’s not there. The truth is, we stumbled onto someone so genuinely excited about the product or service they’re part of, that they’re compelled by personal enthusiasm to be extraordinarily helpful, despite being paid and treated poorly. We shouldn’t consider this the norm or expect it. Not until people are properly compensated for their passion and experience.
Local guitar shops have the best techs. I feel bad because I buy online because of the deals I find but then go to local shops for repairs and modifications. If guitar shops die then hopefully we still have guitar techs available. It blew my mind working at guitar center how many people come in just to have somebody put on their guitar strings for them. That will always be a thing.
I did the survey, I think everyone doing all the research online drives a lot of online traffic. Going to the local guitar shop just has to be better: you go there for the real dirt, the real answers to your problems, and real help not merely trying to upsale you. You want to talk to people with experience, knowledge, and who can help you find what you need. Not what you want but what you need. A big problem with pedals is they don’t always solve the “need” problem. I like the JHS stuff because everything solves a need, and while I might not want every version of a tube screamer in one box I definitely need it.
I generally like to search online for local area second-hand pedals or guitars. But, if I do want something I can't find used, I always go to my local Long & McQuade music store where they can almost always find what I'm looking for. I love your channel. It's very insightful and full of knowledge and info I can apply to decisions on future purchases. Thanks for all the time you put into making this content.
I run the Music Go Round in Boston and we focus on used gear. This way we do not have to constantly compete with the online cutthroat competition. We still need to provide great customer service and maintain a desirable inventory, which we do so we're very successful.
I believe that when it comes to music gear it really depends in which piece we’re talking about. i can sorta safely buy pedals, capos, picks and whatnot online, but for pedals there’s the problem of me needing to try and play it the way specifically I would play it. there are very few UA-cam channels aside from JHS that go into proper detail of all the capabilities /or they only use pedals to play the exact same type of music which doesn’t give you an understanding of how it would sound in different configurations and musical settings. this goes even further for amps and guitars. i’m utterly incapable of buying a guitar without playing it myself. i need to know how it feels, what I can make it sound like and so on. that’s why I hope that guitar shops don’t ever disappear but clearly it’s happening because where I live, the guitar store that has the best offerings is Guitar Center which is unbelievably sad
Former Dutch Guitar shop guy here with facts; Margins are so small that it doesn't allow you to maintain good personel, A Martin would cost us 2800 to buy and 3200 to sell, on those 400 profit 100 would go towards labor (selling time, paying ur luthier to set it up etc) and another 80 toward profit taxes, you are left with 220 after selling a TOP TIER Guitar to a guy. Products from china (Cheap Squiers etc) occasionally have bigger margins but all in all, the economy is slowly choking small-medium sized guitar shops. Thanks for reading, i had to quit and i still miss it every day.
Matt’s guitar in Manassas VA has a teaching studio. I would say that is the combination going forward. People, especially kids, would still want to learn in physical reality and not a digital one in my opinion
Guitar shops will only do as well as guitar-based music, to an extent. Most popular music now is some kind of synth/pop/light guitar amalgamation. I’m not saying this is good or bad-it’s just that tastes and styles change and the retail space will also have to change. Happened to my grandpa’s generation (a professional big band jazz clarinet player) and it will happen to rock music too. The elephant in the room to me isn’t the internet, it’s plug-ins. How long before software can 100% do what guitars and hardware can? Great vids. Love from out here in Japan!
I feel that buying a piano, that is expensive, and difficult to move is a difficult choice. Electronic Keyboards have a better shot of taking over. There are a number of dummies out there that don't know how to use the computer, and I will say that software is NOT my choice for making, tracking, manipulating, etc music. Numerous levels of complicated menus remove the joy from music making a number one reason for not buying the number one multi-effect pedal. Options laden pedal and instruments will never dominate.
I carried around several Musician's Friend catalogues in my backpack at school. I'd look through them so much that I knew all the different models of guitars, basses, amps, pedals, drums and cymbals and new their MSRP and sale price. Then, when I went to Mars Music or Guitar Center, I knew what I wanted to try and how the prices compared. Not that I could afford anything, but it was fun!
I never cease to be amazed by the guitar player's appetite for gear. It's a market that seems to have no limit. While many well-known artists from decades gone by plied their trade with limited gear, either by availability or affordability, to create what many consider classic albums, that era is well and truly gone. Many of those musicians were in their late teens or early twenties at the time and I'd suggest the market for the 15 guitars, 10 amps and 40+ pedals or expensive vintage instruments isn't that age group. The majority of that current market doesn't seem to create anything except for a lucrative market for manufacturers to mine, which they've become extremely adept at. It's no wonder Kemper has left the Access Virus untouched for years to create amps, guitar players will just spend and spend. A wander through Andertons confronts you with wall upon wall of electric guitars, basses, acoustic guitars, rooms full of amps, display cases crammed with hundreds of pedals. It's easy to see what sells as if you're a musician that isn't primarily a guitar player, you'll possibly feel under-appreciated. Any examination of a musicians wanted section reveals that guitarists don't account for 85% of the listings by any means, they're just the easiest group to market gear to. I think the future of the guitar shop depends on how long it'll take for that bubble to burst.
I really hope not. VR rollercoaster will never equal the actual experience of the ride. Online movies, sure, but the cinema..the magic. U may have a coffee maker at home, or oven, a stove, but the restaurant customer experience, the service, the ambiance, holding a menu and get excited to eat your meal at the venue..is satisfying. With that said, im always excited when i visit our local music stores. Thank u for this video, Josh. Always educational and fun. And yeah, i closed my eyes and went to the 1920s. 🤜🤛
I love watching reviews, demos, tear-downs, etc of all kinds of music gear. I love to nerd out and research all I can about circuit design and I’ll even spend time wandering around different sites to gauge used prices and opinions. BUT, I have never bought an instrument without playing it first and 80% of the time, I do the same with pedals. The feeling of spending an off-day hitting the local music shops and finding a cool used pedal is excellent. Plus, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what is the new hot thing or what gets more glances because it’s on the pedalboard - it’s about “will this piece of gear help me be creative, reach a specific tonal goal, or help illicit a better way to express my ideas”. IMHO, the best way to assess that is by getting my hands on it before buying.
I think as long as guitar shops are adaptable they will be fine although big retailers like sweetwater will always take a chunk of their business. The biggest issue I have with local guitar shops is that they very rarely stock the instruments I want. Now, they can order them sometimes but they're ordering direct and these days it's a complete roll of the dice with a lot of brands. They might put in an order and have it in a week or two.. or a year. Most of my guitar purchases are from reverb accounts of physical stores. I have a local shop that I really like and I buy from them whenever possible.
I go to my local guitar shop whenever I need anything music related especially when im having trouble with a setup. It is nice having someone who shares the love for guitars and can talk with me in person about our passion/hobby. I will single handedly keep them in business if i have to and volunteer my time 😅
I think stores will never die completely, but they will consolidate. If store A can carry all/most of the big brands, and store B only carries a few brands, everyone will gravitate towards store A. I find that true of myself. I always check out shops that have a nice variety of good brands, but have little interest in shops that focus on a handful of brands. It seems like a lot of smaller shops only have a few brands and I think those will be the ones that don't last, unless they carry specific brands people will always go to.
I do buy most of my gear online. I haven't been in a GC in years. That said, I do support the smaller local places, because they tend to have some of the fringe stuff you may not find with the bigger online retailers. Local shops for unknown treasures and online for the more common gear.
I have bought off of reverb and Craigslist exclusively for about 3 years. Before that it was always at brick and mortar. I still get accessories there but even that's changing.
Thanks for your induction into the "Super Nerd Club". Yes, I watched the WHOLE THING! A few comments: I liked your incentive breakdown: economic, social, moral. I would like to add "convenience" as an incentive, maybe not just TO buy, but WHERE to buy. As Lee mentioned, people want fulfillment sooner than ever. We live in the Amazon age which is bringing drone delivery and same day delivery in some areas. Near instant gratification is hard to beat when purchasing. One gets a thrill or a buzz or some type of dopamine rush. If you (have to) delay that feeling, maybe the store has to order it, and for shipping, you have to wait a week, or they make you pay for expedited shipping, it takes the fun or thrill out of it, sometimes. I would also add the "environment" as an incentive. If the staff is snooty/snobby or lazy and don't want to help or they are high pressure or uninformed or rude or they argue with you or they try to screw you financially or dishonestly or you are otherwise uncomfortable in the shop for some other reason, maybe it's a boutique vibe where everything really expensive, or it's very quiet with no energy and you're afraid to try out something, you really, REALLY want to get out of there. There are lots of really, really bad salespeople or clerks out there, and it's a shame. Stores really need to train their sales staff on how to make customers feel comfortable with spending money in their establishments.
Our best local guitar store (Arkansas Musicworks) mostly survives on lessons and their pretty comprehensive parts selection - which is sold online. I usually only go there for strings or if I don't want to wait for several weeks for shipping. The main problem is that they don't want to make fair deals. They want 35% fee for consignments and for trades the policy is "70% of retail value" - which means 70% of the lowest price ever paid online for said item.
Josh - Look at the recorded music business. The big boxes have all gone away and in the wake of that the resurgence of vinyl has been a boom for independent “boutique” record stores. I see the same thing happening in the musical instrument retail world. Locally in Charlotte, NC, Midwood Guitars seems to be continuing to grow based on the amount of inventory and selection that I’ve observed over the past few years. The evolution is just happening at a slower pace in the retail musical instrument than it did with recorded music.
I think Ebay/Craigslist probably had a significant effect on little guitar stores back when they rose to prominence, but somehow, there are still large and small shops around my area. I think people seek community and a physical connection with both items and other humans, and guitar shops who recognize that (and have an online presence...like a Reverb store!) will continue to be just fine.
So I guess everyone is gonna just pretend Josh didn't casually gloss over not liking garlic at 15:40. You touched on this but I think guitar stores will always have a place, but there utility is shifting. Shops used to be a place where you found out what gear is available. Now everyone knows what gear is out there. (Interestingly enough I grew up playing guitar and all of my early gear purchases where made by finding something in a shop that looked cool and trying it out. Not sure if that was a function of age or upbringing). I think for the average player, price ultimately dictates where gear is bought and that model is perfectly suited for online shopping. So I don't see an informatory or monetary reason for shops. Shops are, however, unique in being the only place where you can actually try gear. You've touched on this before but demo's are insanely popular, but imperfect, so I think there is still a need for a space where people can try gear. I will buy pedals without trying them, but for larger purchases like amps or guitars I have to actually put my hands on them before buying. I went to the store three separate times over a couple months to try my custom shop strat before making the purchase.
During covid I purchased online mostly and had so many bad experiences I prefer to shop in person. With guitar pedals I'm most comfortable online. Guitars and other instruments I need to hold first and amps I have trouble... too many bad experiences from a variety of online retailers.
I basically buy whatever I can at the local guitar center. Stuff they don’t carry, I order online. I prefer to try things out before purchasing 99/100 times
I grew up in orange county in the 50s, there were like 3 music stores in our town,but being only 20miles from Fullerton,the music stores only carried hign end fender, Gibson, and gretch guitars, very few cheap guitars were sold at these stores,so every one bought guitars from sears, Woolworths, and other big name retailers, who carried Japanese guitars,or supro rebrands.
Great episode, I have so many thoughts. 1. I think the stores that survive are going to continue to be in the big cities, L.A., Nashville, Chicago, New York, these cities have a large customer base, stores are easy to get to, the used market is larger and finally, these tend to be the towns with the vintage market, and while I may drop 500 dollars on a new guitar without playing it, if I had the ability to spend thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars on a guitar, you bet I want to play it before I buy it. Next, Daddy's Junkie Music was another great catalog that I used to receive, it was amazing and I would spend hours looking at each listing even though it was probably out of date by the time it was printed and mailed out. Lastly, "You don't farm horses" needs a shirt, it made me laugh.
There were really great shops around at one time. There was one in the area when I was high school age and it was almost like everyone in the area bought everything there. The people that ran it were very cool. Long after that i lived in a different area and i remember one place that had the opposite reputation. Nevertheless they had a lot of gear and you ended up going there but they were mostly awful to deal with. I have good memories of a lot of the other places i have visited though, shame that they are all gone now.
I'm one of the dorks that bought a really expensive (to me) guitar online. It was from Sweetwater and they treated me pretty nice - kept checking in to see if everything was alright with the guitar. They reminded me if their return policy and recommended if anything felt off that I shouldn't be afraid to return it. Later I found out that they've had a lot of returns on Fender guitars and were worried I had bought one that had something wrong with it. They really wanted to make sure I had a good experience buying a guitar - I had never purchased from them before. ....but they've earned my trust. My local store still gets business from my need for maintenance and repair since my Luthier skills are crap.
I saw the Experience pedal by Prescription Electronics in Guitar Player magazine years ago. The way I purchased it was I sent a personal check directly to Jack Brossart by snail mail. That was the only way to purchase one when he started his business. I used to call him on a land line phone and I had wonderful conversations with him. I cherish the memories of talking with him. Rest in Peace Jack.
That sums it up for me, in-store whenever possible, because "there's nothing like finding it in person". Nothing beats that, 100%, whether it's used or new.
I often visit the local music stores near me, to browse and enjoy, and i often take my daughter for the shared experience. The social side is important.
I practically grew up going to my local shop. I got my first clarinet there, my first guitar, my first uke, my first pedal, etc etc. I loved spending time with my friends, playing for hours, and exploring (hopfully buying something for all that time spent). My biggest gripe with music stores now is they rarely have a vintage/used selection--and, if they do, they make the tag over 2x the value of me finding that same item online. I do understand that guitar shops need to make their money, and I would be perfectly happy to pay a *little* more to support real shops... but I have a collection of vintage, and affordable, gear that I could never afford from any in-person shop.... Most of my gear comes from Reverb or Ebay due to the (usually) unbeatable prices, payment plans, and confidence that it'll be fixed if anything goes wrong.
I live in a small town in Ohio. There used to be three guitar shops here. Only one remains and it has a curated collection of mostly used gear. New stuff is available online, this shop has a new surprise every time you go in.
Long & McQuade does a great job. They get a lot of hate for being a “big box store” but in reality it’s still family owned - just a mom and pop shop that made some really good decisions. If they don’t have it in stock they can get it faster than Amazon usually, and they’ll always tell you if there’s a store nearby that does have it.
There's plenty I could hate on them for - my local branch has a single Squier jazzmaster - but their return policy is superb, and the staff tend to be great.
I just saw Tom from telluride a few months ago while we were skiing/snowboarding. Took a break midday and of course I had to stop by. He was loaded with your pedals, but most importantly knowledge of everything in that store. Every time we are there, I have to make a stop and just buy something, even if it’s just a pack of strings.
I LOVE going to music stores. Great ones like Carter vintage and Gruhn’s in Nashville. Watching their channels on UA-cam makes it even more of an event to visit in person.
Great video, Josh! Very well thought out and presented. I’m clearly in your age range because all of your personal experience examples like getting the musicians friend catalogs being so exciting bring back so many fun memories.
There's a tiny shop in my town solely operated by an old guy who builds guitars and amps, and buys cheap chinese guitars and fixes them up. I've bought a number guitars from him. He always has interesting, unique stuff, and it's always affordable.
Really liked this episode, bummed i couldnt watch live. One thing that never got brought up, and could maybe be its own video is Big Box retailers vs Mom and Pop shops. Not to throw any shade at Guitar Center, but I feel like they’ve had a large part in the loss of local stores. If you want it in stock, cheap and today, a lot of time GC is what people rely on, but they dont provide what I think is the biggest advantage of guitar shops vs online: expert impartial advice. So now we have a world where small local shops are being squeezed on both ends by huge companies, it really makes me worry for those awesome smaller shops
Wow, somehow Boss prices have hung on like video games back in the day. Looks like you could get a Heavy Metal for $100 in 1986, which is roughly what you can buy it for now!
I started playing Electric Guitar "again" a couple of years ago (I played Bass in late 70's early 80's). I am 66. Things are so different now in both lessons and buying gear. I listened/read to hundreds of reviews etc on UA-cam/Forums to get some understanding of what was available. I got a cheap ST guitar practice Amp and started. But it was not until I actually played a good Guitar with P90's through a Marshall DSL40 that my sonic understanding hit home. Being able to actually play, feel and hear the Instrument/Amp is Based on my limited experience no matter how good a UA-cam vid it simply can't replicate that. Even though I live in Rural Australia I have a "Local" actual Music Store 150kms/90mls away and I buy almost everything from them. They also have an online store. However they are doing it hard due to supply disruptions, restrictions imposed by some Major Manufacturers, and the way Big Online Stores have priority on search engines. I'll keep supporting them as long as they stay open. The other Economic thing that this plays into this is a long term reduction in disposable income, in the current situation where wage growth has been flat since the 80's.
Phew, I've seen these surveys before. The magic that was the local music store was profound for a generation of post ww2 boomers who had time and money to explore creativity. Every kid played an instrument from accordion to xylophone. Organ and piano sales,rentals, and lessons provided by every mom and pop shop spurred the demand as the record industry was in its adolescence. The "rock" shop started as a consession to shops where you could take a new record release and listen to it in private before you bought it! By my adolescence, every kid wanted a guitar and the guitar store was the place where tactile dreams came true. Guitars were affordable and the likes of Fender,Gibson and Rickenbacker were within reach of most middle class budgets. The guys working behind counter, ex-jazz,big band and bebop horn players often greeted the eager kiddos with trepidations as we bounded in through the doors cutting through a thin fog of cigarette smoke on our way to nirvana, the guitar room. Art imitates life, as the trickle-down economics of the 80s gave way to austerity, so too began the closure of the mom and pop shop. Big box monstrosities gobbled up the little guy. It's easy to conjecture about the internet Era, but simultaneously, the consolidation of entertainment companies and eventually their extinction as proponents of art leaving enrhusiast players alienated to buy sell and barter on line a piece of musical
Your musicians friend comments reminded me of the hours I would spend flipping through its pages back in the day. I would even take it to school and think of my dream rig when I should have been studying lol
We had two music store in our town in the 90s. The best thing you could find in a music store was the human experience, the community of people that was gathering there. All the local bands with musicians of various musical style sharing a common passion sometime with a healthy zest of competition. There was also good deals to be made when buying many items at once. In the process, the dealer was happy to renew his limited inventory. Ho! And you could easily rent some mics, lightning gear, sound reinforcement systems, multitrack recorders, etc. When new stuff arrived, it was always exciting. Trying a newly arrived guitar was like meeting the new girl in town. Sometimes you had a crush... returning a couple of times to the store to date that beauty with a lovely voice... More often than not she would leave the store with a more fortunate chap. I miss those days.
Dude you’re awesome! I’ve just started diving into your content and I’m having a blast! I bought a angry Charlie a few years ago to play in my 90’s grunge cover and it’s been one of the best pedals I’ve ever owned.
As a dealer at Nashville's oldest full line music store, I find it troubling when a giant brand like Fender raises its price 5 times in 2 or 3 years. The economy definitely plays a huge factor in what people buy these days. I do worry that manufacturers will out price their products for not just dealers but consumers. I think service is the difference in what makes a store successful or not.
I work for a large music chain, and I completely agree with you. Customer service is the thing that will keep guitar stores around. That and the fact that musicians will always want to try before they buy.
I do think this is an issue, in particular with Fender. I know the things that contribute to higher cost guitars, labor, cost of labor and operation in the country of the manufacturer, materials, how time consuming different processes can be, etc. Honestly Fender almost exclusively make only the guitars that are quick and easy to manufacture, they have USA made guitars but also guitars that are made in other countries where costs are much less, a lot of their parts, electronics, components, etc. aren't top tier, their woods are mostly inexpensive. I get that everything is more expensive than it used to be but it really seems like Fender has taken this to the extreme and feels like they're trying to squeeze more money out of products. How many sales have they had on various products recently trying to offer them at a lower price because they have so much inventory?
@@ChrisEck13 I wonder if they’re trying to market their brand to be equal to Gibson, so that they can match pricing. We all know that the Fender is cheaper to produce, but if the focus is more on “premium-izing” the brand, the product doesn’t really matter.
I don’t see buying an American Fender new anytime soon. Maybe not even one produced in Mexico
I say this when I certainly don’t need any more guitars 😅
this take makes no sense lol. by your thinking here, wouldn't guitar center (mid- to low-qualty service experience) be barely surviving while a shop like Carter Vintage (good) is taking the industry by storm?
I think it's incredibly naive to have this conversation without analyzing the role of profits, market share, and share value in this industry. according to the rubric of today's economy, the "best" guitar shops are the ones that make the most money, period. there's no magical ingredients or special experience that gives companies an edge - this is simply a matter of who can exploit 19 year-old musicians who need money between tours and who chooses the most successful (read: manipulative) advertising strategy, etc.
As a shopper, I think service means a lot more than just the employees doing customer service too. To me service is also the experience at your store. If I want to try an amp, how hard is it for me to find a cable, find a guitar that is actually in tune, and find the amp I want to try already hooked up to power? And is the store designed in such a way that I feel invited to do this and have just enough privacy to sit and fiddle with the gear for a minute? Also is the store designed well enough acoustically that I can hear what they heck I'm doing?
I've definitely had where I didn't even bother trying something at the store because of these factors, went home and continued researching the product online.
Andertons are bloody great. Many years ago (20+) I went in to buy a brand new acoustic. They advised me to buy a second hand Takamine they had instead. I still play that guitar every day. They gave me great advice then and ever since.
Cheers Greeny!!
Andertons is great if you play guitar they suck if you play bass. I was under the impression they cared about basses since they create bass videos all the time. They have 30 or so basses on display in a store where they have at least 1000 guitars on display. It was a massive waste of time going to their store to look at basses. Going to a music store and forming relationships with the flour staff is the best way to buy instruments.
Andertons are to far away from me to visit, but I always enjoy their videos and their online service is second to none.
Used to live in Surrey and Andertons gave me lots of amazing experience in buying music gears. Bought a Fender Tele, Fender Mustangs, and Keys & MIDI for wife but the best one I had when they let me try the high end acoustic guitars (Martin, Gibsons, Taylors) for several hours. Ended up going home with my Taylor 314-ce which has given me a lot of great experiences in music.
It is worth the visit!
Back in the 80s, there was a guitar shop in Atlanta called Clark's that was as much a social scene as it was a retail shop, especially on a Saturday where you'd likely see someone from just about every local band drop in just to hang out and touch base with everyone else. They sold Fender, Gibson, Gretsch and Peavey, and always had an eclectic collection of used gear. Social scene or not, I dropped A LOT of money there over the years. They closed when the big boxes came to town, and there hasn't been a place like that since. A damned shame.
How's everyone doing ? I live in Cortland NY . Upstate . I worked at a Guitar Shop that was exactly as you described the Store you were talking about . I'd known the 2 owners for a few years before I worked for them so they trusted me to take home and return anything in the Store I wanted . Unfortunately , the older of the 2 owners , Steve , in his early 60s , went to lunch at Wendy's , didn't come back . I got a phone call a couple of hours later telling me Steve had passed away while standing in line for food . He was one of the nicest , old fashioned Gentleman I ever knew . Then the other owner shut down the Store . That was about 10 years ago and we no longer have any kind of Music Store in my medium size town . I've ordered a few things from Amazon , Musicians Friend , I've looked at Reverb but found it confusing . So I haven't actually been in a real Guitar Store in 10 years . Kind of a bummer . Wow . I definitely didn't mean to ramble on for so long .
I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe . 🎸
I bought my first guitar from there so you remember Bob the owner and Paige 😊
I still have some cords from Clark's
@@RikJSmith The town near to me (burlington, N.C.) has a number of tiny guitar shops. but not the variety of a big store
I remember Mars music but Clarkes was before my time.
I feel really fortunate to have 6 guitar shops within 15 min of my work that I can stop by and visit on my lunch break from work. Thank you Rochester, NY.
“We don’t have that but we can order it for you.”
Edit: I do want to commend Lee Of Anderson’s for saying that one of his tenants of running a great retail store is having everything you want to sell in stock. This is one of the many reasons they are succeeding while others are sinking.
Perfectly stated. And that is why chain music stores will die off.
@@breadnaut3087 Its a bummer for sure. I LOVE being able to be in the room and "feel" the stuff I'm buying. The tone on an amp, let's say, is only part of it. How does it feel on my fingers? How does it respond to palm mutes etc... I've grown custom to buying on reverb from someone with a return policy and going through 2-3 options until I find what I like. If I'm feeling rich I order all of them at the same time and just return what I don't want. I suspect the days of that approach are prob numbered.
I have heard this sooo many times… my answer was”I’ll order it myself when I go home”
So you fall for that and wait. When you go in to collect it, they can't find it. Who did you speak to? Oh, he doesn't work today, can you come back when he's here? You do that and wait while they search. One long wait and three store visits to get your item isn't an experience worth repeating.
Or you arrive and find that because you'd ordered something new that they hadn't come across before, they unboxed it in order to "check it" for you. Now you have an open box item you paid full price for, that you know will be covered in dirty finger marks, from hands that probably haven't been washed after a toilet trip or a bollocks scratching session.😷
Conversely, I have 600$ invested in three products in the last four months I ordered on line and did not return due to inconvenience and mailing access and schedule
Nothing compares with the youthful thrill of checking out 250 right-handed guitars plus one left-handed Squier, and walking out 30 seconds later.
Steve’s Music in Montréal will always have a special place in my heart as it’s where I bought two 14 inch bass amp speakers for my Bassman 50 when I was 14. That was in 1974. Still go there. Also, picked up two cool Boss pedals for 10 bucks at the Brimfield antique show!
I grew up in the Chicago suburbs where we had a Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Guitars Plus and a few smaller shops. Pre internet, pre cell phone, my friends and I would make the rounds between all of the stores as teens and in our 20's. I remember jam sessions breaking our between employees and customers that were epic. You were able to put a band together by meeting local musicians in person. They would host clinics by our favorite guitar heroes like Dimebag and George Lynch. I went to a meet and greet with Nuno Benttencourt in the early 90's at Guitars Plus. The stores just stopped being busy and this cool when the internet happened. Now they're mostly empty when I go check them out. Things really changed with the internet.
Kids playing video games, instead of instruments... 🤔
"The internet can never replace a person" yeah, but it doesn't have to. I don't order from Sweetwater. I order from Devin at Sweetwater. They have really nailed how to garner allegiance to an online presence
They sure have. The 3 things that Lee suggested are things that Sweetwater do. John is my sales specialist. When I’ve had a piece of gear that hasn’t worked I have never had a problem exchanging it. If it turns out I just didn’t like something I never had a problem returning it. I’ve never had a lousy experience. I’ve had a lot of lousy experiences at my local Guitar Center where certain employees made it feel like they were doing me a favor. I’ve decided I don’t need to give them thousands of my dollars.
I live in Canada and I shop at fucking Sweetwater just because of their service. And more than once, after the exchange rate, import taxes and shipping, I STILL saved money, compared to buying it in Canada. A few cases I saved as much as 20%. And their 2 year guaranteed support is fricking hard to beat with the knowledge they have.
Brook texts me every month or two just to check in, even if I haven't bought anything in a while.
Excellent point. More than just being a place to order from, which there are hundreds of all at the same price, they really do excel at the customer service. I feel very comfortable conversing with the same sales person every time and the only one time I had to return a damaged piece, they were amazing about it. It only takes being dealt with poorly ONE TIME and you may never deal with that place again. SW, or Ty, he's my guy, has never let me down.
I have 15 guitars now. I have bought a couple of guitars online from Thomann (both are great), but all the rest are from guitar shops around London. The difference is that with most of those, I left with a guitar that wasn’t the one I thought I was going to buy. There is always something different that looks and feels better in real life than the one I had in my head / imagination. So that’s something that would never happen online. Pedals however I have usually bought online after extensive research. I don’t feel comfortable asking to try pedals in guitar shops, and they aren’t usually very accessible. Special mention to Andertons and Wunjo Guitars. They are always friendly and helpful and will get my business as long as they stay open. In short, I hope guitar shops NEVER die.
Andertons must never die!
I just spent 3 hours at a nearby Music Go Round. I sold them about 15 pieces of gear (almost all of which I’d bought online) and spent most of the time demoing amps. I left happy, with the knowledge that I’d actually picked my favorite option in my price range. But I bought a dark horse, and was disappointed by the amps I expected to love (based on reviews online). That’s not unusual, and highlights the significance of trying gear in person.
I wish brick and mortar stores would survive, even thrive, so more of us could make gear choices based on actual experience, rather than reviews by people with different ears and preferences than we have.
I feel like guitar shops need a strong online presence, but I think they also need to make the shop the place to go.
I hear stories all the time from the past that people would just go and hang out at shops because it was cool and that magic has kind of gone away. Granted, times and people have changed, but it would be awesome for more shops to present a much more welcoming vibe for people to actually want to go there
I started collecting guitars in 2014. The greatest factor has been economics. Zzounds offering 12-month interest free purchases has made it easy for me to get what I want. However, there's nothing like trying a guitar or gear in person. I've done several trades with Guitar Center and our local Music Go Round. However, I recently made the trek to Moore Guitars in Evansville, Indiana, and being in a legit guitar shop brought back so much joy. Holding something for the first time and meshing with it before commitment is very special. Therefore, I am somewhere in between. I live in Saint Louis City, and we don't have shops with new gear, mostly vintage. Convenience will often overshadow the moral obligation.
For probably a decade I ordered all of my new gear from Sweetwater. Recently I moved to a smaller town with an awesome little guitar shop. It is like a guitar swap meet. They do fair trades and have a ton of used pedals. So now I go there for my guitar needs.
My local guitar shop, Guitar Factory Parramatta, has been operating since before I was born. I love going and spending a couple of hours trying guitars and amps, because that's when you discover the thing that JHS Show has been teaching us for years, the thing that makes the sound that inspires you is the thing that you need in your rig. Sure, the internet is great for research, but nothing beats the long-term relationship I have with the guys at my store.
Great subject, glad you raised it! I worked for a very large electronics distribution company in the UK for 15yrs from 1995-2010 in sales, purchasing and warehouse manager, we imported thousands of music, sound, lighting electronics and imported all over the world supplying only wholesalers & retailers, not to the public. When I first started we supplied thousands of high street music and electronics retailers worldwide, sadly over a few years I’ve seen so many big companies close and go bust and it was all down to the internet, basically so many one man bands sat in their office at home built websites and always under cut high street retailer prices, therefore winning a lot of the business, what frustrated me was these one man websites never even handled the products the end user purchased, they would receive their order online, take payment and order direct from our company and get us to send the goods direct to their customer, obviously they had no over heads like retail stores so could make much smaller margins for doing very little. Sadly this ruined the high street stores especially music stores! As now there really is virtually no music / guitar stores left in the UK, I live in Manchester a huge city with a great music history,bands. and musicians.
I try not to buy from the internet and try to support the very few music shops left, I’d rather pay a bit more money to buy from a retail store, trying the goods before purchasing and good customer and importantly after sales service when buying music products to myself is incredibly important.
Internet sales sadly especially in the UK destroyed the industry and hasn’t been there for years in the UK! Too many big companies went bust and closed down owing our company thousands which was very sad to see so many great companies go.
If I do buy anything online then I always try to buy direct from the manufacturer or direct from the brand head office as having worked in purchasing I can usually wangle it buying direct even if they don’t sell direct to the public. I always try and support my local guitar stores primarily as they are really struggling and very few and far between nowadays.
Unfortunately people want products next day and at lowest price possible now, I wish they would realise how this has crippled the industry badly and will end up back firing on the public in the long run, customer service and after sales is definitely a huge part of a music product and worth paying more for in my view.
I apologize in advance for the long comment, but this topic really speaks to me for several reasons. I've been working in the MI industry since 1997, working 3 days a week in a small family-operated music retailer in my hometown, while still attending school. I then did a 2,5 year apprenticeship in that very store, learned and did everything from sales, purchase, guitar repair, building instruments etc. I was lucky to have a bunch of folks working there who had infinite knowledge about stuff that I soaked in constantly.
I never really left the industry, worked at other retailers, distributors, manufacturers and so on. These days, my main job is still within MI and I have a pedalbuilding side-business.
You said something very true in this livestream: The issues are manifold and they have to do a lot with the different regions of the world and within countries. I live in Europe (Germany to be precise) and I have seen guitar stores dying a lot in the past 10 years. Some of them actually because of the internet (they refused to participate, didn't see the value in having an online sales channel etc.), but others went away because of their profile. A lot of stores were started by former musicians who, at some point, saw themselves confronted with the fact that making a living with music is a difficult thing if you want a certain standard and consistency in life. But they also didn't want to stop hoarding gear and needed to justify that to their partner and friends. So they started a guitar store. What a great idea!
Some of these guys are still around, because they picked up the business mentality along the way. Others however went away since they didn't pick it up and they thought they would be living forever on their regular customers, people coming in from their region to get the usual supplies and some new gear etc. But in the meantime other retailers with a real focus on scaling their business grew massively and made it easier for people to buy via phone, online or through other modern channels. These large sellers are now able to offer a better service on a distance than some of the local stores, which actually sounds insane when you think about it!
Now there is a situation where those retailers who survived the internet, heavy competition and all the above mentioned will retire soon and in a lot of cases there's no one taking over the business, which means less stores to go to.
Another important factor is store staff. It is difficult to get people, which has been an issue for a few years now. You're certainly not becoming rich and famous working in a guitar store (well, famous sometimes at least), so the income portion is one thing. Some guys also have a weird expectation of what "working in a guitar store" is (hence the comment on "max volume guitar solo by GC employee). And the other part is that someone who is new to the matter needs to be educated well by his superior. I don't see this happen a lot these days, people are rather seen as cheap helpers for easy tasks. If I then walk into a guitar store and come up with some serious questions in order to make a purchase decision and the person in front of me knows less than myself, it won't create a great experience for me.
I could go on and on about this, since there's so much more to it, but I will leave it with these words. Thanks for making such great content and dig into topics like this, it's really important!!!
All I had was guitar center here in Fredericksburg, Virginia. They opened 20 years ago and shut down the 2 mom and pop stores we had. Now the internet is starting to do the same to the big guys. I recently discovered a new shop with knowledgeable people and things I want to buy! It was a good feeling discovering this place I could drive to in 20 min, sit down in the shop, and try gear. I felt like a kid again 😂
apple music was the best!
@mrscientificterms yes it was, and pickers supply was great.
I love the idea of music stores, but the reality is that my budget is limited. If a shop provides a community center and is locally owned, I’ll pay 10% more to buy from them, but not 30%. Thanks for the conversation!
Oh and I just paid perfect circuit for a new Chase Bliss pedal, because I experienced good customer service and wanted to reward that, and paid a little more than the used pedal I planned to buy. they gave me 10% off when I asked. Nice people.
Being into more niche stuff within an already niche hobby, I have a hard time finding things that I'm looking for at my local shops, BUT I still enjoy going and I'll always give it a shot to buy what I'm looking for there first.
Sweetwater makes it so easy and their customer service is so excellent, it is often tempting to just automatically go to them.
The timing of the episode could not be any better. My favorite local guitar store has decided to shut its doors for good as of the end of May. Ultimately the owner decided to go a different route with his business ventures. Great guy and team he had with him. This was a very small store and the ability to go in and test equipment is such a must for me. They were also great at tweaking my guitars to my liking and we're always up for trying to get the best feel for me as the customer. If you're someone who likes to tinker a lot with gear you currently own or picking up new gear, the local guitar shop is a special place .
Thank you Josh! This video Stream was awesome! I’ve made my living for over 20 years playing music. This year an opportunity for us to buy a local store that has been a staple in our community for 84 years, and we jumped. You put into words and articulated so well so many of the things that I have been intuitively thinking and feeling. As a former buyer of gear, I’m hoping to take this wisdom into helping other musicians fall in love with making music and finding great gear.
Hey Josh! Thought you might like my insight. I live in London, Ontario, Canada. I ran a guitar shop here for 20 years. I shut it down in 2010. I gave it my all but it was a sinking ship. I blame it on video games. Glad I got out when I did. These days players can have things delivered to their door. The largest chain in Canada is Long & McQuade. They are the exclusive dealer on everything. A few years ago it was full of Gibsons. A week ago I saw only two. I was one of two customers on a Saturday afternoon. Sad. Your show reminds me of what I miss most about my shop, talking about gear and the friends and bands that were created out of it. Thanks for your show.
Thanks for sharing!
I’m 60 and in the jewelry business. And this is what I’ve seen the last 20 years and I think it goes hand in hand with this video. In the past, manufacturers sold to wholesalers who sold to retailers who then sold to the end user. Then, manufactures started cutting out the wholesalers, selling direct to the retailer, killing many, many businesses. Now, the manufacturers are cutting out the retailers and selling direct to the end user either direct or setting up retail stores. I think the shame of this is the guitar shops are so important. In addition to selling product, they also do set ups and do the maintenance on my guitars that I cannot do myself. But, it’s it just so damn easy to order on line. I’m surprised that a company like yours, which is relatively new, does not sell direct. But, you fall into the direct to retailer, which today is fantastic. But at some point, you may start to think, instead of selling my $99 pedal to sweetwater for $49, I can sell it to Rob in Huntington, for $79. Saves me money. And you make more. That’s the logic driving this change. I don’t know if you agree with this assessment, but it seems to me the direction we are going. And like everything else, there’s some pluses and some minuses
A massive issue is many brands require shops to buy an array of products, even if only specific models are selling. Fender, Charvel, Jackson, etc. they require a certain amount of guitars to be purchased by a shop to maintain a contract. Shops would survive buy selling only what is popular, but manufacturers actually stop that from being possible.
Furthermore, in shop is always best, no two guitars sound the same
One of the best episodes yet. These are the types of questions and discussions that help contribute towards the common good in society; understanding what/where/when/why/how. So much to unpack. #Gratitude
Wow that made me think. 25 years ago i tried to start a mail order company just for pedals only to find out that nobody was willing to supply me. I do think you missed out the guitar mags influence for a shory time in the 80s. Well done great episode
We had a guitar store open two years ago in my city and they are moving to a larger building. And a town about thirty minutes away is a guitar store that’s been around for years got new ownership a couple years ago and now they’ve move to a larger location and is getting more business. I’m hoping this is a sign of revival for guitar stores in the future.
I love walking into a store and seeing lots of different types of guitar. But new guitars are expensive, so most of my guitar purchases are eBay or reverb or online deals from the major (UK) stores. I occasionally buy a pedal or accessory from a physical store. I recently had the pleasure of happening upon Macari’s new premises. I’ve never felt so welcome in a guitar shop. They knew I didn’t have the money for a guitar but they let me try stuff, treated me to a whole bunch of history and stories, and I left with a Colour Sound Fuzz and Macari’s t-shirt. I spent more than I planned to, but I got more out of the experience than I spent.
A change I've made to better support my guitar shops is that I try to limit my gear purchases to when I travel.
I make it a point to visit whatever the good guitar shops are wherever I go. It's a cool experience, you get to meet cool like-minded people,
you get to try stuff in person, and occasionally you can even find a nice bargain on a used item. Even if I don't walk away
with a new pedal or something, I try to at least get some strings or something to help out, though by limiting my gear acquistion
mostly when I travel, I'm more likely to walk away with something new I'm excited about and help out these local stores.
A good way to do this research is to find what gear companies operate out of different states, and look at who their dealers are.
You can usually triangulate who the cool local shops are. :) This is how I found Eastside Music Supply!
This is such a great point! You will discover magical music shops and stunning deals if you look for indie stores as you travel and keep an eye out for whatever unusual gear they're looking to move.
Thank you for the great episode Josh.
I’m 59 years old and I play guitar since I’m 12 years old. Not a professional, but certainly an advanced amateur and gear nerd.
I remember buying my first real electric guitar. I was 17 and badly wanted a Stratocaster because Richie Blackmore played one.
It was 1981 and I went to a local music shop in a medium size town in Germany where I was living back then.
They had three Fender guitars in store: two Strats and a Telly. I still see them as it was yesterday. I had money from a summer job and some financial help from my mother. So I was 17 and certainly on a budget. I didn’t know nothing about gear back then. So two Strats hanging there: one in a beautiful yellow, one in natural finish. The natural finish was more expensive. Here comes the vendor: bad hair, cheap tie, the kind that usually sells Farfisa organs and Hohner nylon guitars to beginners. So I ask him why the natural guitar is more expensive. He makes this expert face, seems to think hard and then says: it’s the body, look at the body. One is massive wood, the yellow one is synthetic. The 17 year old boy who was already falling in love with the yellow one goes like: oh…😢 I certainly don’t want a plastic Strat… but I certainly don’t want that uncool natural finish that looks like our dinner table. So I ended up buying the cream Telecaster…
More than 35 years later. I’m living in Lisbon Portugal now. There is that small but fine guitar shop here called MrJack Guitars. He was a dealer for Tokai guitars back then. As a nerd I knew that Tokai made (and still make) some of the best guitars in the business. So he had received a batch of LP copies. I go there and there are three beautiful “Love Rock” models in violin burst. I go there on a week day, I was the only customer in the shop. Three apparently identical guitars. The owner lets me try them without any pressure. They look equal. But I always come back to that same one. It has something. It speaks to me. We bond. I buy it. Still love it. Even resisted to mod it (which I almost always do).
The music store of my youth with the smeary vendor has closed his door for many years.
MrJack Guitars has grown and is expanding. Changed to bigger locations twice during the last years.
So what’s my message? You can’t buy a fine guitars online. Wood is an organic material. Even if you have 10 apparently identical guitars, you’ll feel a difference if you have enough experience. Slight differences in the way the neck is shaped, the pickups, how it reacts to your playing… So you have to buy them in a shop, you have to touch and play them. If you do a good job as a shop owner and shop staff then you still are going to survive in the online world.
Dear diary...
I worked for Sam Ash on LI in the early 2000's, then Manny's in NYC for a while, it was the Guitar Center franchise that crushed all the local shops and it was deliberate. Then came the internet.
I’m still very much a beginner and I came across the Anderton’s UA-cam channel a couple of years ago. The advice and opinions on there from Lee and Danish Pete has been invaluable and inspiring, so when I was looking for a new guitar I headed to their shop.
The advice I had from the Anderton’s team while I was there was amazingly helpful.
Since then I’ve felt a real loyalty to them, and will drive over 2 hours to them again when I buy my next guitar.
The beauty of Andertons (I assume, I'm in the US) is that you can actually find things there. The Guitar Center locations, and most stores I've been in lately, only have a few brands. They technically carry 100 brands, but have 4 on display. It's pointless.
When I finally graduated to electric guitar at age 13, I went to Gemco in San Diego. It was a department store that had a record section - on the wall above the records were guitars. I had $75 that I’d saved up for a year to get the natural finish Strat copy. I wrote the stock number down, went to the cash register and handed them my cash. My mom and I were directed to a door on the outside of the store, handed them a slip of paper and the handed me a cardboard box. When I got it home and opened it, it contained a plywood sunburst Teisco del Ray that never once managed to be in tune. I was too shy and too stupid to bring it back and ask for the guitar on the wall. If I had more info (it was the 70s - no internet), I would have gone to Freedom Guitar and got a decent second-hand American instrument for the same price. My second electric was a Les Paul copy from the Sears catalog. Again, horrible quality and also never played in tune. Since then, I’ve bought them in guitar shops or directly from luthiers.
I remember Gemco, predecessor to big box stores. Never bought music stuff there. Bought first and 2nd guitars from Guitar Showcase in San Jose back in the eighties.
I love going to guitar shops, but I don't buy gear anymore. Guitar as a passion and a hobby has evolved, and I now consider myself to be a maker, not just a musician. As such, most of my gear purchases are for components, not finished products. This livestream has made me want to go to my local guitar shop and buy some strings and picks or something.
The musicians friend catalogs were golden. I used to bring those to school and my friend and I would sit there and circle all the gear we wanted with a pen...good times before the smart phone!
I think there is an opportunity to change the way a guitar shop works. Northern Guitars in Leeds is brilliant. Guitars, coffee, beer and live music. Genius.
There's a shop near me in Essex that still operates on appointment only basis. This means I cant just browse and make a spontaneous purchase. If you go in with an appointment you feel pressured, if you walk out without buying you can feel the eyes burning in the back of your head.
There was an old place that used to have a free coffee machine and it was as much a social hub as a guitar shop, there was a real community feel and people would pop in on Mondays to talk about their gigs at the weekend and it was a real community vibe. The way the workers treated us there meant that whatever I was looking for I'd buy it there regardless. Obviously having a decent stock is important too.
I love guitar shops and hope they don't die but feel a lot of them need to do more to build a community with the musicians in the area.
Since I started going into guitar shops in the 70’s my favorite thing was shops that had lots of used guitars. Used guitars Im not crazy about buying unless I can hold and play them first.
Not for music shop reasons, but you’re hitting the nostalgia buttons hard for me here. Also grew up on a working farm, also remember that very special experience of ordering from a catalog and getting something delivered from far away to my home in the middle of nowhere.
It’s so easy now, but nothing in today’s purchase experience can beat that amazing feeling of the 2 or 3 times a year the UPS truck showed up; getting a package was crazy special & exciting!
Now it’s just a box this week’s stuff like ibuprofen & wasp spray. Which is just another way of saying - I now go to brick and mortar establishments (including restaurants and grocery stores) with the same regularity the UPS truck came when I was a kid, 2 or 3 times a year.
In most cases, it’s not about the convenience, it’s the experience of the wide range of selection that’s killed in-person shopping for me.
And I’ll preface my next statement by saying, I get it, I worked in food service for almost a decade, you’re getting paid like shit, so I don’t have an expectation of high customer service, I truly don’t, and anyone who’s had a job interacting with the public knows how thankless and sh*tty that is, much solidarity to all of you gutting it out in service jobs.
Preface said, because of the poor pay for retail and service jobs, the experience of dealing with someone incredibly knowledgeable and helpful at a brick & mortar location, at any point in my life, has been so infrequent as to be almost mythological.
We might have one experience or know one store like that and romanticize it and expect it, then feel disappointment when it’s not there. The truth is, we stumbled onto someone so genuinely excited about the product or service they’re part of, that they’re compelled by personal enthusiasm to be extraordinarily helpful, despite being paid and treated poorly. We shouldn’t consider this the norm or expect it. Not until people are properly compensated for their passion and experience.
I remember seeing my first Musician’s Friend catalog in probably ‘97. I would look through it for hours on end.
Local guitar shops have the best techs. I feel bad because I buy online because of the deals I find but then go to local shops for repairs and modifications. If guitar shops die then hopefully we still have guitar techs available. It blew my mind working at guitar center how many people come in just to have somebody put on their guitar strings for them. That will always be a thing.
I appreciate what you do Josh. Thank you.
I did the survey, I think everyone doing all the research online drives a lot of online traffic. Going to the local guitar shop just has to be better: you go there for the real dirt, the real answers to your problems, and real help not merely trying to upsale you. You want to talk to people with experience, knowledge, and who can help you find what you need. Not what you want but what you need. A big problem with pedals is they don’t always solve the “need” problem. I like the JHS stuff because everything solves a need, and while I might not want every version of a tube screamer in one box I definitely need it.
I generally like to search online for local area second-hand pedals or guitars. But, if I do want something I can't find used, I always go to my local Long & McQuade music store where they can almost always find what I'm looking for. I love your channel. It's very insightful and full of knowledge and info I can apply to decisions on future purchases. Thanks for all the time you put into making this content.
Really enjoyed the LIVE @JHS keep bangin' RAWK!!! 🤘🏼
I run the Music Go Round in Boston and we focus on used gear. This way we do not have to constantly compete with the online cutthroat competition. We still need to provide great customer service and maintain a desirable inventory, which we do so we're very successful.
There’s a music go round in boston?
technically it's in Natick, Rt.9 eastbound
Beyond excellent video! Thank you guys for the knowledge and discussion.
I believe that when it comes to music gear it really depends in which piece we’re talking about. i can sorta safely buy pedals, capos, picks and whatnot online, but for pedals there’s the problem of me needing to try and play it the way specifically I would play it. there are very few UA-cam channels aside from JHS that go into proper detail of all the capabilities /or they only use pedals to play the exact same type of music which doesn’t give you an understanding of how it would sound in different configurations and musical settings. this goes even further for amps and guitars. i’m utterly incapable of buying a guitar without playing it myself. i need to know how it feels, what I can make it sound like and so on. that’s why I hope that guitar shops don’t ever disappear but clearly it’s happening because where I live, the guitar store that has the best offerings is Guitar Center which is unbelievably sad
Former Dutch Guitar shop guy here with facts;
Margins are so small that it doesn't allow you to maintain good personel, A Martin would cost us 2800 to buy and 3200 to sell, on those 400 profit 100 would go towards labor (selling time, paying ur luthier to set it up etc) and another 80 toward profit taxes, you are left with 220 after selling a TOP TIER Guitar to a guy. Products from china (Cheap Squiers etc) occasionally have bigger margins but all in all, the economy is slowly choking small-medium sized guitar shops. Thanks for reading, i had to quit and i still miss it every day.
Great discussion, lots of knowledgeable folks in the chat!
In all seriousness Josh is easily my favorite UA-camr. In the last year I've purchased atleast 5 jhs pedals and a bad monkey lol.
Which gear related UA-camr is your least favorite?
Matt’s guitar in Manassas VA has a teaching studio. I would say that is the combination going forward. People, especially kids, would still want to learn in physical reality and not a digital one in my opinion
Greatest Statement Ever "The Internet is Not Enough"
Guitar shops will only do as well as guitar-based music, to an extent. Most popular music now is some kind of synth/pop/light guitar amalgamation. I’m not saying this is good or bad-it’s just that tastes and styles change and the retail space will also have to change. Happened to my grandpa’s generation (a professional big band jazz clarinet player) and it will happen to rock music too.
The elephant in the room to me isn’t the internet, it’s plug-ins. How long before software can 100% do what guitars and hardware can?
Great vids. Love from out here in Japan!
I feel that buying a piano, that is expensive, and difficult to move is a difficult choice. Electronic Keyboards have a better shot of taking over. There are a number of dummies out there that don't know how to use the computer, and I will say that software is NOT my choice for making, tracking, manipulating, etc music. Numerous levels of complicated menus remove the joy from music making a number one reason for not buying the number one multi-effect pedal. Options laden pedal and instruments will never dominate.
I carried around several Musician's Friend catalogues in my backpack at school. I'd look through them so much that I knew all the different models of guitars, basses, amps, pedals, drums and cymbals and new their MSRP and sale price. Then, when I went to Mars Music or Guitar Center, I knew what I wanted to try and how the prices compared. Not that I could afford anything, but it was fun!
I never cease to be amazed by the guitar player's appetite for gear. It's a market that seems to have no limit. While many well-known artists from decades gone by plied their trade with limited gear, either by availability or affordability, to create what many consider classic albums, that era is well and truly gone. Many of those musicians were in their late teens or early twenties at the time and I'd suggest the market for the 15 guitars, 10 amps and 40+ pedals or expensive vintage instruments isn't that age group.
The majority of that current market doesn't seem to create anything except for a lucrative market for manufacturers to mine, which they've become extremely adept at. It's no wonder Kemper has left the Access Virus untouched for years to create amps, guitar players will just spend and spend.
A wander through Andertons confronts you with wall upon wall of electric guitars, basses, acoustic guitars, rooms full of amps, display cases crammed with hundreds of pedals. It's easy to see what sells as if you're a musician that isn't primarily a guitar player, you'll possibly feel under-appreciated. Any examination of a musicians wanted section reveals that guitarists don't account for 85% of the listings by any means, they're just the easiest group to market gear to. I think the future of the guitar shop depends on how long it'll take for that bubble to burst.
I really hope not. VR rollercoaster will never equal the actual experience of the ride. Online movies, sure, but the cinema..the magic. U may have a coffee maker at home, or oven, a stove, but the restaurant customer experience, the service, the ambiance, holding a menu and get excited to eat your meal at the venue..is satisfying. With that said, im always excited when i visit our local music stores. Thank u for this video, Josh. Always educational and fun. And yeah, i closed my eyes and went to the 1920s. 🤜🤛
I love watching reviews, demos, tear-downs, etc of all kinds of music gear. I love to nerd out and research all I can about circuit design and I’ll even spend time wandering around different sites to gauge used prices and opinions. BUT, I have never bought an instrument without playing it first and 80% of the time, I do the same with pedals.
The feeling of spending an off-day hitting the local music shops and finding a cool used pedal is excellent.
Plus, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what is the new hot thing or what gets more glances because it’s on the pedalboard - it’s about “will this piece of gear help me be creative, reach a specific tonal goal, or help illicit a better way to express my ideas”. IMHO, the best way to assess that is by getting my hands on it before buying.
I think as long as guitar shops are adaptable they will be fine although big retailers like sweetwater will always take a chunk of their business. The biggest issue I have with local guitar shops is that they very rarely stock the instruments I want. Now, they can order them sometimes but they're ordering direct and these days it's a complete roll of the dice with a lot of brands. They might put in an order and have it in a week or two.. or a year.
Most of my guitar purchases are from reverb accounts of physical stores. I have a local shop that I really like and I buy from them whenever possible.
I go to my local guitar shop whenever I need anything music related especially when im having trouble with a setup. It is nice having someone who shares the love for guitars and can talk with me in person about our passion/hobby. I will single handedly keep them in business if i have to and volunteer my time 😅
I think stores will never die completely, but they will consolidate. If store A can carry all/most of the big brands, and store B only carries a few brands, everyone will gravitate towards store A. I find that true of myself. I always check out shops that have a nice variety of good brands, but have little interest in shops that focus on a handful of brands. It seems like a lot of smaller shops only have a few brands and I think those will be the ones that don't last, unless they carry specific brands people will always go to.
I do buy most of my gear online. I haven't been in a GC in years. That said, I do support the smaller local places, because they tend to have some of the fringe stuff you may not find with the bigger online retailers. Local shops for unknown treasures and online for the more common gear.
Thansk Johs for share part of your personal history. Greetings 👍
these are by far my favorite kind of shows you do.
I have bought off of reverb and Craigslist exclusively for about 3 years. Before that it was always at brick and mortar. I still get accessories there but even that's changing.
Thanks for your induction into the "Super Nerd Club". Yes, I watched the WHOLE THING!
A few comments: I liked your incentive breakdown: economic, social, moral.
I would like to add "convenience" as an incentive, maybe not just TO buy, but WHERE to buy. As Lee mentioned, people want fulfillment sooner than ever. We live in the Amazon age which is bringing drone delivery and same day delivery in some areas. Near instant gratification is hard to beat when purchasing. One gets a thrill or a buzz or some type of dopamine rush. If you (have to) delay that feeling, maybe the store has to order it, and for shipping, you have to wait a week, or they make you pay for expedited shipping, it takes the fun or thrill out of it, sometimes.
I would also add the "environment" as an incentive. If the staff is snooty/snobby or lazy and don't want to help or they are high pressure or uninformed or rude or they argue with you or they try to screw you financially or dishonestly or you are otherwise uncomfortable in the shop for some other reason, maybe it's a boutique vibe where everything really expensive, or it's very quiet with no energy and you're afraid to try out something, you really, REALLY want to get out of there. There are lots of really, really bad salespeople or clerks out there, and it's a shame. Stores really need to train their sales staff on how to make customers feel comfortable with spending money in their establishments.
Amazing live stream! Do more topics like this!!
Our best local guitar store (Arkansas Musicworks) mostly survives on lessons and their pretty comprehensive parts selection - which is sold online. I usually only go there for strings or if I don't want to wait for several weeks for shipping. The main problem is that they don't want to make fair deals. They want 35% fee for consignments and for trades the policy is "70% of retail value" - which means 70% of the lowest price ever paid online for said item.
Josh - Look at the recorded music business. The big boxes have all gone away and in the wake of that the resurgence of vinyl has been a boom for independent “boutique” record stores. I see the same thing happening in the musical instrument retail world. Locally in Charlotte, NC, Midwood Guitars seems to be continuing to grow based on the amount of inventory and selection that I’ve observed over the past few years. The evolution is just happening at a slower pace in the retail musical instrument than it did with recorded music.
Excellent content..stellar presentation.. A+ and thanks for the thoughtful insights into the economics of everything.
I think Ebay/Craigslist probably had a significant effect on little guitar stores back when they rose to prominence, but somehow, there are still large and small shops around my area. I think people seek community and a physical connection with both items and other humans, and guitar shops who recognize that (and have an online presence...like a Reverb store!) will continue to be just fine.
So I guess everyone is gonna just pretend Josh didn't casually gloss over not liking garlic at 15:40. You touched on this but I think guitar stores will always have a place, but there utility is shifting. Shops used to be a place where you found out what gear is available. Now everyone knows what gear is out there. (Interestingly enough I grew up playing guitar and all of my early gear purchases where made by finding something in a shop that looked cool and trying it out. Not sure if that was a function of age or upbringing). I think for the average player, price ultimately dictates where gear is bought and that model is perfectly suited for online shopping. So I don't see an informatory or monetary reason for shops. Shops are, however, unique in being the only place where you can actually try gear. You've touched on this before but demo's are insanely popular, but imperfect, so I think there is still a need for a space where people can try gear. I will buy pedals without trying them, but for larger purchases like amps or guitars I have to actually put my hands on them before buying. I went to the store three separate times over a couple months to try my custom shop strat before making the purchase.
This was great - thank you for putting it together!
During covid I purchased online mostly and had so many bad experiences I prefer to shop in person. With guitar pedals I'm most comfortable online. Guitars and other instruments I need to hold first and amps I have trouble... too many bad experiences from a variety of online retailers.
I basically buy whatever I can at the local guitar center. Stuff they don’t carry, I order online. I prefer to try things out before purchasing 99/100 times
I grew up in orange county in the 50s, there were like 3 music stores in our town,but being only 20miles from Fullerton,the music stores only carried hign end fender, Gibson, and gretch guitars, very few cheap guitars were sold at these stores,so every one bought guitars from sears, Woolworths, and other big name retailers, who carried Japanese guitars,or supro rebrands.
Great episode, I have so many thoughts. 1. I think the stores that survive are going to continue to be in the big cities, L.A., Nashville, Chicago, New York, these cities have a large customer base, stores are easy to get to, the used market is larger and finally, these tend to be the towns with the vintage market, and while I may drop 500 dollars on a new guitar without playing it, if I had the ability to spend thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars on a guitar, you bet I want to play it before I buy it. Next, Daddy's Junkie Music was another great catalog that I used to receive, it was amazing and I would spend hours looking at each listing even though it was probably out of date by the time it was printed and mailed out. Lastly, "You don't farm horses" needs a shirt, it made me laugh.
There were really great shops around at one time. There was one in the area when I was high school age and it was almost like everyone in the area bought everything there. The people that ran it were very cool. Long after that i lived in a different area and i remember one place that had the opposite reputation. Nevertheless they had a lot of gear and you ended up going there but they were mostly awful to deal with. I have good memories of a lot of the other places i have visited though, shame that they are all gone now.
I'm one of the dorks that bought a really expensive (to me) guitar online.
It was from Sweetwater and they treated me pretty nice - kept checking in to see if everything was alright with the guitar. They reminded me if their return policy and recommended if anything felt off that I shouldn't be afraid to return it.
Later I found out that they've had a lot of returns on Fender guitars and were worried I had bought one that had something wrong with it.
They really wanted to make sure I had a good experience buying a guitar - I had never purchased from them before.
....but they've earned my trust. My local store still gets business from my need for maintenance and repair since my Luthier skills are crap.
I saw the Experience pedal by Prescription Electronics in Guitar Player magazine years ago. The way I purchased it was I sent a personal check directly to Jack Brossart by snail mail. That was the only way to purchase one when he started his business. I used to call him on a land line phone and I had wonderful conversations with him. I cherish the memories of talking with him. Rest in Peace Jack.
That sums it up for me, in-store whenever possible, because "there's nothing like finding it in person". Nothing beats that, 100%, whether it's used or new.
I often visit the local music stores near me, to browse and enjoy, and i often take my daughter for the shared experience. The social side is important.
I practically grew up going to my local shop. I got my first clarinet there, my first guitar, my first uke, my first pedal, etc etc.
I loved spending time with my friends, playing for hours, and exploring (hopfully buying something for all that time spent).
My biggest gripe with music stores now is they rarely have a vintage/used selection--and, if they do, they make the tag over 2x the value of me finding that same item online. I do understand that guitar shops need to make their money, and I would be perfectly happy to pay a *little* more to support real shops... but I have a collection of vintage, and affordable, gear that I could never afford from any in-person shop....
Most of my gear comes from Reverb or Ebay due to the (usually) unbeatable prices, payment plans, and confidence that it'll be fixed if anything goes wrong.
I live in a small town in Ohio. There used to be three guitar shops here. Only one remains and it has a curated collection of mostly used gear. New stuff is available online, this shop has a new surprise every time you go in.
Long & McQuade does a great job. They get a lot of hate for being a “big box store” but in reality it’s still family owned - just a mom and pop shop that made some really good decisions. If they don’t have it in stock they can get it faster than Amazon usually, and they’ll always tell you if there’s a store nearby that does have it.
Seconded. Great returns policies, they buy used, and easy shipping of used gear between stores nationally
There's plenty I could hate on them for - my local branch has a single Squier jazzmaster - but their return policy is superb, and the staff tend to be great.
L&M experiences are totally dependent on the staff working. Here in Cambridge, it’s gotten better, but Fred is always great.
I just saw Tom from telluride a few months ago while we were skiing/snowboarding. Took a break midday and of course I had to stop by. He was loaded with your pedals, but most importantly knowledge of everything in that store. Every time we are there, I have to make a stop and just buy something, even if it’s just a pack of strings.
I LOVE going to music stores. Great ones like Carter vintage and Gruhn’s in Nashville. Watching their channels on UA-cam makes it even more of an event to visit in person.
Great video, Josh! Very well thought out and presented. I’m clearly in your age range because all of your personal experience examples like getting the musicians friend catalogs being so exciting bring back so many fun memories.
There's a tiny shop in my town solely operated by an old guy who builds guitars and amps, and buys cheap chinese guitars and fixes them up. I've bought a number guitars from him. He always has interesting, unique stuff, and it's always affordable.
Really liked this episode, bummed i couldnt watch live. One thing that never got brought up, and could maybe be its own video is Big Box retailers vs Mom and Pop shops. Not to throw any shade at Guitar Center, but I feel like they’ve had a large part in the loss of local stores. If you want it in stock, cheap and today, a lot of time GC is what people rely on, but they dont provide what I think is the biggest advantage of guitar shops vs online: expert impartial advice. So now we have a world where small local shops are being squeezed on both ends by huge companies, it really makes me worry for those awesome smaller shops
Wow, somehow Boss prices have hung on like video games back in the day. Looks like you could get a Heavy Metal for $100 in 1986, which is roughly what you can buy it for now!
I started playing Electric Guitar "again" a couple of years ago (I played Bass in late 70's early 80's). I am 66.
Things are so different now in both lessons and buying gear.
I listened/read to hundreds of reviews etc on UA-cam/Forums to get some understanding of what was available.
I got a cheap ST guitar practice Amp and started.
But it was not until I actually played a good Guitar with P90's through a Marshall DSL40 that my sonic understanding hit home.
Being able to actually play, feel and hear the Instrument/Amp is
Based on my limited experience no matter how good a UA-cam vid it simply can't replicate that.
Even though I live in Rural Australia I have a "Local" actual Music Store 150kms/90mls away and I buy almost everything from them. They also have an online store.
However they are doing it hard due to supply disruptions, restrictions imposed by some Major Manufacturers, and the way Big Online Stores have priority on search engines.
I'll keep supporting them as long as they stay open.
The other Economic thing that this plays into this is a long term reduction in disposable income, in the current situation where wage growth has been flat since the 80's.
Josh, your Musician’s Friend memories were mine too. Used to browse for hours with that catalog. Fun time for me as well.
Phew, I've seen these surveys before. The magic that was the local music store was profound for a generation of post ww2 boomers who had time and money to explore creativity. Every kid played an instrument from accordion to xylophone. Organ and piano sales,rentals, and lessons provided by every mom and pop shop spurred the demand as the record industry was in its adolescence. The "rock" shop started as a consession to shops where you could take a new record release and listen to it in private before you bought it! By my adolescence, every kid wanted a guitar and the guitar store was the place where tactile dreams came true. Guitars were affordable and the likes of Fender,Gibson and Rickenbacker were within reach of most middle class budgets.
The guys working behind counter, ex-jazz,big band and bebop horn players often greeted the eager kiddos with trepidations as we bounded in through the doors cutting through a thin fog of cigarette smoke on our way to nirvana, the guitar room.
Art imitates life, as the trickle-down economics of the 80s gave way to austerity, so too began the closure of the mom and pop shop. Big box monstrosities gobbled up the little guy. It's easy to conjecture about the internet Era, but simultaneously, the consolidation of entertainment companies and eventually their extinction as proponents of art leaving enrhusiast players alienated to buy sell and barter on line a piece of musical
I get excited walking into a guitar store but I only buy on Reverb and Sweetwater these days. So I guess the answer is yes
Josh, I love the cheque story that leads into shoe story. I'll pocket that one and earmark it as advice to remember for my little ones 😊
Your musicians friend comments reminded me of the hours I would spend flipping through its pages back in the day. I would even take it to school and think of my dream rig when I should have been studying lol
We had two music store in our town in the 90s. The best thing you could find in a music store was the human experience, the community of people that was gathering there. All the local bands with musicians of various musical style sharing a common passion sometime with a healthy zest of competition. There was also good deals to be made when buying many items at once. In the process, the dealer was happy to renew his limited inventory. Ho! And you could easily rent some mics, lightning gear, sound reinforcement systems, multitrack recorders, etc. When new stuff arrived, it was always exciting. Trying a newly arrived guitar was like meeting the new girl in town. Sometimes you had a crush... returning a couple of times to the store to date that beauty with a lovely voice... More often than not she would leave the store with a more fortunate chap. I miss those days.
Dude you’re awesome! I’ve just started diving into your content and I’m having a blast! I bought a angry Charlie a few years ago to play in my 90’s grunge cover and it’s been one of the best pedals I’ve ever owned.
this show is such a chill hangout. thanks guys.