It's interesting how these "independent" reviews like the ignore that Shimano uses a proprietary channel/language to communicate with head units. This means that they can with a single letter remove the right for any brand to communicate with the shifters.
I would stick to the 11-speed mechanical shifter. Electronic shifters are adding complexity without any performance benefit. Also, it's bumping up the price significantly. In my opinion, the groupset manufacturers are pushing electronic options in the market to compensate for the inherited design flaw of the 12-speed groupset. It would be very difficult to tune a 12-speed mechanical shifter since the spacing in the freehub didn't increase for the extra one cog. So it requires extreme precision, and that can only be achieved by the electronics.
The grumpy old men, technology challenged and the fruggle cheapskates out there may object to electronic shifting, and probably those horseless carriages too. But having owned just about every major generation and type of bike and/or groupset, I am 100% sold on the advantages and real world value of electronic shifting and hydraulic disc brakes on road bikes; at least for above average to advanced riders. And I'm not fussed about the value for money equation either - there's a lot worse things to spend your savings on. The one thing I will add is that this review totally missed the incredible difference Hyperglide Plus makes vs. standard gearing. I've had SRAM and the old Di2 and the shifting on my next gen Ultegra version is worth every penny, and that includes the upgrade cost over 105 too. The speed, smoothness and reliability of shifts alone would be worth the investment, but being able to shift under full load is friggen fantastic!!! I'm a big and powerful guy and if I miss-judged a climb and didn't down shift ahead of the hill, I used to be screwed - witb SRAM, old Di2 or a manual groupsets. But not the nex gen Di2. I ride in an area with rolling and mixed length hills, and this new system has been a true game changer. One other niggly point, but which most people agree on, is that Rival looks cheap, especially compared to its upscale siblings, whereas the 105 looks amost as good as Dura Ace, and I also wonder how durable Rival is compared to the rest of the field. Bottom line...105 is better than Rival, but the jump to Ultegra is the better choice (doubly so if you consider the better brake modulation on Ultegra and Dura Ace groupos). This is even true if budget is an big issue. Skip a trip or two to the pub and put the money towards electronic shifting and the new Ultegra. If you're even a semi-serious cyclists, you will not regrett the sacrifice;-).
@bikeradar - it might be worth considering a think on the scoring systems here. There were several cases where 105 won marginally, or was caveated, but still got the same benefit as the clearer wins for SRAM. I'm wondering if you should have half-points for those cases. As it happens, I wouldn't bother with the 105. Any wins it has a marginal.
@@roberthenri9945 Thanks for the comment, ability to shift under load is indeed quite important (at least for me), and somehow I haven't heard it mentioned in other reviews. Is it true that Di2 also has some auto-trim function for the front to avoid chain rub on the go, while etap doesn't and fully relies on the initial setup of the front derailleur? I'm considering an upgrade and am torn between the Ultegra Di2 and Force etap, incredibly difficult to decide...
I bought a SRAM force groupset apart from crankset for around £800 and bought a light weight crankset for £80 so £880 in total, SRAM was an obvious choice for me due to the ease of set up since im building my own bike, Shimano prices are way to expensive to justify a premium especially when its only SRAM thats truly wireless
Just bought a Cannondale Supersix EVO with SRAM AXS Rival eTap. From C'Dale no crank power meter but I have Favero Assioma duals on my current Trek Madone that will be retiring as soon as the C'Dale gets to me. Look forward to the eTap experience.
Confirmed, this was wrongly advised in the video, but to be honest, Shimano brakes have always just been the best, especially when paired with XT rotors. SRAM make allot of noise, don’t have the same feel.
Interesting. I have 2 Ultegra bikes and 1 Rival access; the Rival definitely shifts the wear faster, while the Shimano shifts the front better. Also, I much prefer the Rival cassette and chainring options.
You can’t purchase rival with chainrings of your choice, so you need to budget in the cost to upgrade from compact to full size chainrings. The cassette mounts to a xdr free hub, which is pricey to buy for your existing set of wheels, if your wheel manufacturer has stock for your model (i believe there is a hack to make it work on an xd hub with a space though). The flat top chain is worst in class for friction, and it’s soft, won’t last nearly as long as Shimano, so prepare to replace drivetrain components often.
For a simple uncomplicated old guy like myself, it's the pure pleasure of getting on your bike and riding that gives the most satisfaction, yes the new tech is great, and goes a long way to enhance riding and distance pleasure, a few extras grams of weight is not something that will both most cyclists, but most importantly, at least to me is smooth swift silent gear changing. Just wish there were more cycle friendly road in Suffolk, would like to add the guys at Cycle Revolution in Ipswich, Foxhall Rd, go far beyond their calling to ensure cycling pleasure, having bought nearly all my cycles from them over the years.
Well I don’t know about that. The 1000 euro bike will outclass the 10000 euro bike any day if the rider is stronger. You don’t get much speed at all for your money so you can be happy at your chosen price point. These videos though of course feature the expensive stuff. It’s like car shows on the tv, the are about Porches and Maseratis, not Skodas and Hyundais.
“Cycling is now a luxury elite activity” I beg your pardon. But, are you saying we all have to have electronic shifting to ride our bikes? Can’t you be content with what you have? Just get out there and ride whatever you want? If you are unable to do that, you need a long hard look at yourself.
People looking at luxury build bikes and ignore all the affordable bikes called it's an expensive sport, guess what, get yourself an entry level bike with maybe Shimano claris that cost you around 500-600 ish , boom, you'r in the sport but not that "LUXURY" I guessed.
Really good video. I went for a new bike with SRAM. Three reasons 1) available at a good price 2) shifters are easier not split in two like Shimano and 3) SRAM is wireless vs semi-wireless making it a clean look. It’s a bit like your great banana comment though. It’s the right bike for you that counts. But I would say the default to Shimano should definitely be challenged.
What's the different in look between wireless (SRAM) and semi wireless (shimano, wires going in the seat tube to the RD and FD? Is it about that 3 centimeter of wiring?
No mention of the difference in batteries. With SRAM having two interchangeable batteries, you'll always be able to get home using multiple gears. That should tip the scales toward SRAM. For the record, I currently ride Shimano.
I'm baffled that batteries weren't mentioned. I have eTap and for this alone I'd do it all over again. You basically can never run out of battery, by swapping the front and rear if the rear runs out : worst case scenario is that you go home without a front derailleur.
Shimano groupsets have a warning at 10% battery level and the FD won't work (all battery left will go to the RD). So that's about the same principle. It gets you home.
I'd spend a little bit more and just get Ultegra Di2. The front derailleur is stronger and the whole group-set is lighter. Plus Ultegra gives you an option for a 53/39 crank.
I've got a mix of new AXS/Shimano components on a rim brake Scott Addict. SRAM Red shifters, Force rear mech, Rival front mech, Shimano Ultegra 6800 50/39 compact crank (34T is too small where I live), Ultegra R8100 12-Speed cassette, Shimano 12 speed chain. It shifts & runs very smooth with no problems. I did want to run a 53/39 STD crank but the Rival front mech doesn't give me enough clearance so the biggest I can use is 50T. I could modify the front mech and braised on mount but don't really want to. I prefer a larger front chainring so don't want a small AXS crank. I used a Shimano GRX 46/30 when I rode LEJOG in 2020 and should've used at least a compact crank. I am happy enough with the 11T on the Shimano cassette and don't need a 10T even if I had an AXS crank. I cannot remember the last time I used top gear... oh, now I remember... in the garage on the workstand 🤣
The ultimate would be the mechanical components of DI2 with the electronic components from AXS, mechanical superiority of Shimano with slightly better electronics from SRAM ("true" wireless, , independent & detachable powersources etc etc), when SRAM:s patent expires Shimano would have the potential to smoke SRAM :D (also, SRAM:s disposable electronical components like powermeters and blips are atrocious, i have no idea how that is still allowed in todays world with focus on sustainability and recycling etc)
I put SRAM Rival on my bike recently. It has been great so far. I really like having the shifters on the right and left side. It cost me 1400.00 usd including labor.
Rival also has shifters you can use even with heavy gloves, and batteries that are easily swapped and are small enough and cheap enough to have spares. Add in the ability to upgrade any bike even a vintage with fully external cables without issue, SRAM continues to make Shimano look as outdated as down tube shifters.
Good point. I didn’t think of battery swap. If rear derailleur battery dies mid ride, just swap it with the front battery. And yes, I agree with everything else you mentioned.
You don't need a pocket full of spare batteries with Di2, just a quick charge a couple of times per year. But remembering their own phone number can be a challenge for some...so extra batteries might be their only hope😂
@@roberthenri9945 I've read several reviews of experienced bike riders who forgot to charge their Di2 battery, because you so seldom need to charge them. It's only natural. Sram batteries on the other hand are super easy to take out, and in case one runs out you can swap it out with the other one, whereas my understanding is that with Di2 you're toast
@@qdboutNo you're not 'toast'. you get a warning when battery is at 10% and only your RD will keep working (in order to get you home, which is a sensible limitation). So you're clearly talking nonsense.
I have Rival and I activated the shifting type, where it shifts the front automatically. I sometimes don’t even notice the shift because its so fast and smooth, even under roughly 300 watts of pressure its flawless and not even noticeable
Eu já tive ultegra di2 6870 e troquei por sram red etap, o que eu tenho a dizer é que praticidade é sram só perde em durabilidade, o câmbio traseiro com 3 anos de uso estava com folgas preocupantes porém estava com a parte eletrônica impecável, nunca falhou ou teve algum tipo de bug eletrônico. O ultegra com 4 anos era sólido, não tinha folgas, dava um probleminha na bateria que tinha um placa com firmware e precisava de fazer uma atualização vez outra.
I’ve just pre ordered a Planet X Pro Carbon SRAM Rival GRX with discount : Total cost £2100 ! Can’t wait until it’s delivered. I think the SRAM is easier to charge as I have no electricity in the garage
Ha, wait until you talk too long term AXS owners about battery-range fatigue, worst feeling to have when racing. There is a good reason why Amazon is full of multi battery charger accessories for AXS, and don’t forget the button batteries in the shifters. Cables for me and a hefty sized central battery makes more sense.
Brake noise is a decisive factor for me. After countless bleeds on my Rival Hydro, the tight clearance and noise bothers me on mud rides. And the bleed with dot5.1. Tempting to go Shimano, but without clutch (e.g. toggle like Deore), there's no point for me to spend such money. I may try the new L-Twoo fully hydraulic 1x11 once available.
@@nokia6800 Cheers for the input! With literally one sample size (of disc and sram) within people i know, my view may be a bit warped. Likely sram also fixed some of their design flaws with the axs generation
@@noahhalbfoster6892 I'm the mechanic. The bike shop where I live can't even true a wheel. The pistons in the brake lever don't move as well as they should, seems to be a known issue after some mileage, but carefully reducing the diameter of the plastic ring is a risky step when replacement parts are unavailable and/or expensive
@@LordFata I have Rival 1 (gen 1) on my CX bike and haven't had any clearance issues yet, are you keeping ontop of cleaning the pistons with IPA then DOT fluid? The other alternative could be swapping out just the caliper for an aftermarket one (Hope are pretty good), saves $$$.
I am a shimano person. But AXS is better. There are categories not included that would have been in srams favor like the convenience of being completely wireless. And the road groups are completely compatible with each other and compatible with mountain bike groups as well. Have a gravel bike coming with rival / gx eagle mullet. Very excited to see how it works.
With SRAM, you can readily disconnect the batteries and carry them to the charger while the bike remains in the shed. With Shimano, you have to carry the bike to the charger.
I'm a Shimano user for a long time. I've used also Campagnolo ( Veloce) for like 3 years. but switched back to Shimano. I'm considering building a new bike using Sram, maybe a mix & match between Rival with Red or Force, to shave some weight off. I'm familiar with Shimano mix & match. The wider gear range is getting my attention.
Reddit would disagree with the shifting science. Shifting with gloves make Sram the clear winner in their category. Additionally, setting up Sram is superior to Di2. I’m not a fanboy, just pointing out missed information since Sram can be set up easier and less of a fuss in winter riding.
I just tried Rival and I was thoroughly impressed. The only thing I could maybe critique is the front derailleur down shift. A little slower than the up shift. Otherwise it is the same concept for shifting like using paddles in a car. I did not know about the power meter. Thanks for the comparison. Cheers.
Just get out and enjoy riding. I think the electronic shifting is cool and minimalist. If you can afford it and you really want or need (especially if your a racer) it go for it. But for me I’m fine with cable/mechanical shifting. I started on friction shifting then SIS in the late 80s and I rode hundreds of miles with little to no issue. Life and $$ happened and cycling was put on the shelf for a few decades (I’m a runner and cycling is a alternative). I recently got back into it and for me I’m enjoying the suppler side of cycling. I just don’t want to see mechanical shifting go the way of the dodo. I think new is good but not at the cost of the old which seems to be the trend.
For me, the only real thing I'd have as a niggle about the SRAM stuff would be how you shift. I've been on Shimano shifters all my life and I'm almost 50. I don't know how easy it'd be to adapt.
I rode Shimano forever when I first started road cycling. I switched to SRAM well over a decade ago and have loved SRAM ever since. I have nothing against Shimano and would try them out again and would easily ride them........just prefer SRAM overall. You have to get use to either as the shifting goes but I suspect each keeps close tabs on the other so which ever group set you get, they are close in comparison in all reality and comes to personal preference at the end of the day.
I've had generally good experiences with SRAM on the mountain bike but AXS road shifting and reliability has been absolutely horrendous. I've gone through 2 Force wide and 1 Rival axs rear mechs in the span of a year and a half. Everything was warrantied but it took forever. Not too mention how terrible the front shifting is. Shimano is better in every way.
SRAM = Land Rover, Shimano = Toyota. Toyota has zero emotion to the driving experience, but will outlast you, land rovers are beautiful and fun to drive over weekend, when they aren’t in the garage being repaired during the week 😆
@@MrJonas2255 I just ordered an Orbea Orca today. It's a husband wife duo and they literally refused to sell me a SRAM equipped bike. They said this exact same thing, which really surprised me. I've had SRAM Force on another bike and had zero problems.
nice work. what about switching out batteries on the longer trips? I'd heard that SRAM has replaceable batteries.... BTW: what's your rear tire pressure? Never seen such deflection!!! 🙂
Why is never spare part cost mentioned in these comparisons? SRAM complete groupsets are cheaper than shimano but cassesttes, chains and chainrings are way more expensive. How is that even possible? On top of that I have read comments that shimano components are more durable than SRAM. I could accept 10-15% price difference with comparable durability but we are talking here about double and sometimes even triple the price of components. Anyone has heard a plausible explanation for this huge price difference?
I was only riding my Kinesis GTDv2 equipped with 105 di2 over in Charterhouse earlier this week! It could have been me in the video! 😂 I chose 105 di2 because SRAM brakes are 💩. I did upgrade my rotors to 160 MT800 front and rear. I would recommend anyone considering 105 di2 to do the same.
1: I’m sorry but the fact is that 105 di2 doesn’t cost more than Rival it’s actually cheaper. Why do journalists always get this wrong 🤦🏻♂️ 2: SRAMs front derailleur are some of the worst out there. If you’re not precise within a milliliter it drops the chain. And good luck adjusting it so there are no chainrub when crosschaining. It can be done on Sram from time to time. On Shimano it’s so so easy because of its lateral movement are bigger. 3: yes Sram got wider gearing but who cares about a 10 cog if the jump between gears are too big so you can’t get a cadence that fits you.
When the first point was awarded for "slightly higher rear shift speed that you would barely notice on the road" but talked up the clutch in the Sram but then ignored it, I thought in my he must be setting this up for a draw 😄
Can you upgrade the crankset with for instance 4iii power meter on the new 105 di2? (similar "approach" to what you are able to do with the SRAM rival axs)
Enjoyed the video very informative👍 On another matter I noticed you were riding a Dolan, I don’t know if you’ve seen Hambini video which was pretty hard hitting…have you reviewed the bike in terms of its handling, ride quality etc?
I love Shimano ergonomics and internal battery but I hate that long and very ugly 105 rear derailleur cage. SRAM looks much neater and has smaller chain-sets.
I’d like to know which groupsets are best for women! My wife hated lower tier Shimano because the levers were so huge. Now she wants electronic shifting. The price of SRAM and its gear ranges are appealing for her, but Shimano looks like it has better ergonomics for small hands.
Warren - how soon before you see Chinese electronic group sets become main stream and take up a serious gap that’s exists due to the current pricing of the mainstream manufacturers.
I was a shimano fan but shimano has gone full on Toyota. Japanese reliable but resistant to change and lacking innovation. Sram is cheaper, more intuitive and has more gear options. That’s not even a competition anymore.
Until Di2 gets rid of the 'wires' it will never be 'wireless' and as much as I love Shimano brakes over SRAM, AXS is heads and tails above Di2, because AXS IS wireless.
I own a Di2 and AXS bike and like the mechanical parts of Shimano, but the SRAM app experience is a lot better. Shimano shifts much smoother and the rear derailleur is more svelte than the bulky AXS RD.
Electronic shifting doesn't make you faster. I'll get the new Ltwoo RX hydrolic road/gravel(1x12 or 1x11) groupset instead. Cycling is for health, pleasure and adventure end of the day and to spend a lot for money to get and maintain an unnecessary expensive equipment is wrong for me. I hope with Ltwoo on the market now Shimano and Sram will drop the prices and will start offering mechanical hydraulic groupsets again. Regards,
It'll be corrosive if you don't rinse it off if you spill it. It only needs to be rinsed away with water and you don't even need to rush. It's not like battery acid. Surely you clean up the spilt mineral oil too?
The most expensive $$$$ is the best, everyone knows unless you have a brand new world class pro tour bike you're no good no matter how much you train 🙄
I get you are sarcastic, but hey who says that? Everyone knows that a stronger rider is faster ever if he/she rides a cheaper bike. These videos though, of course feature the new expensive not so important stuff. Otherwise they’d have nothing to talk about or show.
As a separate purchase - September 2023 (!!) Apparently they are prioritising/hoarding them for OEM complete bikes which includes 105 and upcoming GRX.
If you're buying a complete bike from the shop, 105 is going to be your best bang for buck. If you're building, then go for Sram Force over 105. Skip the Rival groupo.
Front chainring options on the SRAM are very limiting and very pricey, while Shimano you can choose up to 53/39. The SRAM flat top chain was tested as adding 3-5watts of friction compared to the Shimano which was best in class. SRAM parts are soft and last 2/3 the distance of Shimano, and come replacement time have been a problem to source, and very expensive. Battery range fatigue in the SRAM Groupset have become a meme, with riders purchasing spare batteries for backup while out riding, Shimano you charge a central battery that lasts months. While the data on the app is appealing, it won’t make you ride reliably and as quick as the Shimano, while enjoying an economic sense of ownership.
According to Warren - "60 hours for Rival AXS - though only takes 45 minutes to charge. Shimano claim around 1000km for di2 which in practice means I charge mine around every 4-6 weeks"
@@bikeradar the 1000km looks better since it's bigger absolute number but I would think it's comparable since 60 hours at about 16.6 kph (or 12.5 mph) works out to about 1000km also. An average of 16.6 kph seems doable for many folks this price range (& higher) unless you ride in some very hilly areas.
All this talk about how expensive 105 di2 is and yet so many bikes are cheaper equipped with 105 di2 with same specs give or take different bar tape or some other insignificant piece. Just shows you never know once brand make deals and actually put the parts on bikes.
I just enjoy all the second hand "peasant" 7kg mechanical rimbrake bikes that are going for peanuts. I pass for those ridiculous "upgrades". Electronic shifting, aero and discbrakes are all gimmicks that are worthless for the average weekend warrior. Bikes are meant to make cycling more fun and easy. Now bikes are getting so complicated you are forced to go to a bikeshop even to change something simple as a stem (if you dont have a 1 piece bar-stem combo). Shame on all of those generic cycling channels promoting all of this garbage! 👎
I totally agree with you, just picked up a rim brake giant tcr SL 2019 model with ultegra / DA, slr0 carbon wheels in a size M/L weighs 6.81kg and cost me £1800.00 New bikes like the new Scott Addict RC 16K and its heavier 😂😂 I could of got 8 of the Giant SLs used for the price of 1 Addict RC the industry has lost it imo
Are these electronic groupsets worth it? and which would you choose? let us know what you think! 👇
It's interesting how these "independent" reviews like the ignore that Shimano uses a proprietary channel/language to communicate with head units. This means that they can with a single letter remove the right for any brand to communicate with the shifters.
I would stick to the 11-speed mechanical shifter. Electronic shifters are adding complexity without any performance benefit. Also, it's bumping up the price significantly. In my opinion, the groupset manufacturers are pushing electronic options in the market to compensate for the inherited design flaw of the 12-speed groupset. It would be very difficult to tune a 12-speed mechanical shifter since the spacing in the freehub didn't increase for the extra one cog. So it requires extreme precision, and that can only be achieved by the electronics.
The grumpy old men, technology challenged and the fruggle cheapskates out there may object to electronic shifting, and probably those horseless carriages too. But having owned just about every major generation and type of bike and/or groupset, I am 100% sold on the advantages and real world value of electronic shifting and hydraulic disc brakes on road bikes; at least for above average to advanced riders. And I'm not fussed about the value for money equation either - there's a lot worse things to spend your savings on. The one thing I will add is that this review totally missed the incredible difference Hyperglide Plus makes vs. standard gearing. I've had SRAM and the old Di2 and the shifting on my next gen Ultegra version is worth every penny, and that includes the upgrade cost over 105 too. The speed, smoothness and reliability of shifts alone would be worth the investment, but being able to shift under full load is friggen fantastic!!! I'm a big and powerful guy and if I miss-judged a climb and didn't down shift ahead of the hill, I used to be screwed - witb SRAM, old Di2 or a manual groupsets. But not the nex gen Di2. I ride in an area with rolling and mixed length hills, and this new system has been a true game changer. One other niggly point, but which most people agree on, is that Rival looks cheap, especially compared to its upscale siblings, whereas the 105 looks amost as good as Dura Ace, and I also wonder how durable Rival is compared to the rest of the field. Bottom line...105 is better than Rival, but the jump to Ultegra is the better choice (doubly so if you consider the better brake modulation on Ultegra and Dura Ace groupos). This is even true if budget is an big issue. Skip a trip or two to the pub and put the money towards electronic shifting and the new Ultegra. If you're even a semi-serious cyclists, you will not regrett the sacrifice;-).
@bikeradar - it might be worth considering a think on the scoring systems here.
There were several cases where 105 won marginally, or was caveated, but still got the same benefit as the clearer wins for SRAM.
I'm wondering if you should have half-points for those cases.
As it happens, I wouldn't bother with the 105. Any wins it has a marginal.
@@roberthenri9945 Thanks for the comment, ability to shift under load is indeed quite important (at least for me), and somehow I haven't heard it mentioned in other reviews. Is it true that Di2 also has some auto-trim function for the front to avoid chain rub on the go, while etap doesn't and fully relies on the initial setup of the front derailleur? I'm considering an upgrade and am torn between the Ultegra Di2 and Force etap, incredibly difficult to decide...
Before I click start, I already know it's going to be a tie. its always like this for many YT videos.
The SRAM's rear derailleur clutch it doesn't sound like much but is a game changer, never I had a dropped chain.
I bought a SRAM force groupset apart from crankset for around £800 and bought a light weight crankset for £80 so £880 in total, SRAM was an obvious choice for me due to the ease of set up since im building my own bike, Shimano prices are way to expensive to justify a premium especially when its only SRAM thats truly wireless
Just bought a Cannondale Supersix EVO with SRAM AXS Rival eTap. From C'Dale no crank power meter but I have Favero Assioma duals on my current Trek Madone that will be retiring as soon as the C'Dale gets to me. Look forward to the eTap experience.
105di2 doesn’t have Servo Wave. Shimano even says so themselves.
Confirmed, this was wrongly advised in the video, but to be honest, Shimano brakes have always just been the best, especially when paired with XT rotors. SRAM make allot of noise, don’t have the same feel.
Interesting. I have 2 Ultegra bikes and 1 Rival access; the Rival definitely shifts the wear faster, while the Shimano shifts the front better. Also, I much prefer the Rival cassette and chainring options.
I should also say I prefer the Shimano brakes.
Also, Rival can be used with thick gloves
More adaptable to thick gloves may be etap's only advantage. I'll be sure to kit out my next fat bike with it and ride it in the snow.
You can’t purchase rival with chainrings of your choice, so you need to budget in the cost to upgrade from compact to full size chainrings. The cassette mounts to a xdr free hub, which is pricey to buy for your existing set of wheels, if your wheel manufacturer has stock for your model (i believe there is a hack to make it work on an xd hub with a space though). The flat top chain is worst in class for friction, and it’s soft, won’t last nearly as long as Shimano, so prepare to replace drivetrain components often.
For a simple uncomplicated old guy like myself, it's the pure pleasure of getting on your bike and riding that gives the most satisfaction, yes the new tech is great, and goes a long way to enhance riding and distance pleasure, a few extras grams of weight is not something that will both most cyclists, but most importantly, at least to me is smooth swift silent gear changing. Just wish there were more cycle friendly road in Suffolk, would like to add the guys at Cycle Revolution in Ipswich, Foxhall Rd, go far beyond their calling to ensure cycling pleasure, having bought nearly all my cycles from them over the years.
Thank you so much for this video: after seeing it, i ordered my new bike with Rival AXS!
Great comparison. Thanks mate.
That boardman with the zipps is a nice looking bike. Good video.
its so sad that cycling is now a luxury elite activity like golf or skiing.. it used to be a joke that 'my bike cost more than my car'
No kidding, I know guys who ride rim brake 10 + year old bikes who can drop most 10,000$ bike club riders.
Well I don’t know about that. The 1000 euro bike will outclass the 10000 euro bike any day if the rider is stronger. You don’t get much speed at all for your money so you can be happy at your chosen price point. These videos though of course feature the expensive stuff. It’s like car shows on the tv, the are about Porches and Maseratis, not Skodas and Hyundais.
That wasn't ever a joke, I just always had a cheap car
“Cycling is now a luxury elite activity”
I beg your pardon. But, are you saying we all have to have electronic shifting to ride our bikes?
Can’t you be content with what you have? Just get out there and ride whatever you want? If you are unable to do that, you need a long hard look at yourself.
People looking at luxury build bikes and ignore all the affordable bikes called it's an expensive sport, guess what, get yourself an entry level bike with maybe Shimano claris that cost you around 500-600 ish , boom, you'r in the sport but not that "LUXURY" I guessed.
Really good video. I went for a new bike with SRAM. Three reasons 1) available at a good price 2) shifters are easier not split in two like Shimano and 3) SRAM is wireless vs semi-wireless making it a clean look. It’s a bit like your great banana comment though. It’s the right bike for you that counts. But I would say the default to Shimano should definitely be challenged.
What's the different in look between wireless (SRAM) and semi wireless (shimano, wires going in the seat tube to the RD and FD? Is it about that 3 centimeter of wiring?
No mention of the difference in batteries. With SRAM having two interchangeable batteries, you'll always be able to get home using multiple gears. That should tip the scales toward SRAM. For the record, I currently ride Shimano.
I'm baffled that batteries weren't mentioned. I have eTap and for this alone I'd do it all over again. You basically can never run out of battery, by swapping the front and rear if the rear runs out : worst case scenario is that you go home without a front derailleur.
Shimano groupsets have a warning at 10% battery level and the FD won't work (all battery left will go to the RD). So that's about the same principle. It gets you home.
I'd spend a little bit more and just get Ultegra Di2. The front derailleur is stronger and the whole group-set is lighter. Plus Ultegra gives you an option for a 53/39 crank.
I've got a mix of new AXS/Shimano components on a rim brake Scott Addict. SRAM Red shifters, Force rear mech, Rival front mech, Shimano Ultegra 6800 50/39 compact crank (34T is too small where I live), Ultegra R8100 12-Speed cassette, Shimano 12 speed chain. It shifts & runs very smooth with no problems.
I did want to run a 53/39 STD crank but the Rival front mech doesn't give me enough clearance so the biggest I can use is 50T. I could modify the front mech and braised on mount but don't really want to. I prefer a larger front chainring so don't want a small AXS crank. I used a Shimano GRX 46/30 when I rode LEJOG in 2020 and should've used at least a compact crank.
I am happy enough with the 11T on the Shimano cassette and don't need a 10T even if I had an AXS crank. I cannot remember the last time I used top gear... oh, now I remember... in the garage on the workstand 🤣
Can I use 105 crankset to Rival groupset?
I like SRAM cause it is true wireless.
I like Shimano cause the crankset design is beauty!
The ultimate would be the mechanical components of DI2 with the electronic components from AXS, mechanical superiority of Shimano with slightly better electronics from SRAM ("true" wireless, , independent & detachable powersources etc etc), when SRAM:s patent expires Shimano would have the potential to smoke SRAM :D (also, SRAM:s disposable electronical components like powermeters and blips are atrocious, i have no idea how that is still allowed in todays world with focus on sustainability and recycling etc)
I put SRAM Rival on my bike recently. It has been great so far. I really like having the shifters on the right and left side. It cost me 1400.00 usd including labor.
Rival also has shifters you can use even with heavy gloves, and batteries that are easily swapped and are small enough and cheap enough to have spares. Add in the ability to upgrade any bike even a vintage with fully external cables without issue, SRAM continues to make Shimano look as outdated as down tube shifters.
Good point. I didn’t think of battery swap. If rear derailleur battery dies mid ride, just swap it with the front battery. And yes, I agree with everything else you mentioned.
You don't need a pocket full of spare batteries with Di2, just a quick charge a couple of times per year. But remembering their own phone number can be a challenge for some...so extra batteries might be their only hope😂
@@roberthenri9945 I've read several reviews of experienced bike riders who forgot to charge their Di2 battery, because you so seldom need to charge them. It's only natural. Sram batteries on the other hand are super easy to take out, and in case one runs out you can swap it out with the other one, whereas my understanding is that with Di2 you're toast
Try updating a vintage bike with SRAM that now only makes disc groupsets... Maybe with Campa, but not with Shimano / SRAM these days.
@@qdboutNo you're not 'toast'. you get a warning when battery is at 10% and only your RD will keep working (in order to get you home, which is a sensible limitation). So you're clearly talking nonsense.
I have Rival and I activated the shifting type, where it shifts the front automatically. I sometimes don’t even notice the shift because its so fast and smooth, even under roughly 300 watts of pressure its flawless and not even noticeable
Mechanical Ultegra for me 🚴👍🤩🏅
In theory, sure. But tuning it is a PITA.
Tuning mechanical is a piece of pi$$.
Eu já tive ultegra di2 6870 e troquei por sram red etap, o que eu tenho a dizer é que praticidade é sram só perde em durabilidade, o câmbio traseiro com 3 anos de uso estava com folgas preocupantes porém estava com a parte eletrônica impecável, nunca falhou ou teve algum tipo de bug eletrônico. O ultegra com 4 anos era sólido, não tinha folgas, dava um probleminha na bateria que tinha um placa com firmware e precisava de fazer uma atualização vez outra.
I’ve just pre ordered a Planet X Pro Carbon SRAM Rival GRX with discount : Total cost £2100 ! Can’t wait until it’s delivered. I think the SRAM is easier to charge as I have no electricity in the garage
i am using rival etap for my colnago. So far everything works well, I haven’t seen any problems like front derailleur shift problems.
The biggest gain to electronic gears is wirelessness. Not sure why anyone would go for a wired system.
And zero maintenance
Ha, wait until you talk too long term AXS owners about battery-range fatigue, worst feeling to have when racing. There is a good reason why Amazon is full of multi battery charger accessories for AXS, and don’t forget the button batteries in the shifters. Cables for me and a hefty sized central battery makes more sense.
Nice review.
Excellent review ❤❤
Nice review, but I cant not see how low the tyre pressure you have in all of the shots on Dolan. Is it on purpose or just an oversight?
Brake noise is a decisive factor for me. After countless bleeds on my Rival Hydro, the tight clearance and noise bothers me on mud rides. And the bleed with dot5.1. Tempting to go Shimano, but without clutch (e.g. toggle like Deore), there's no point for me to spend such money. I may try the new L-Twoo fully hydraulic 1x11 once available.
I seem to have to opposite experience from you. I use force axs and my friend has Ultegra and his brakes are always making noises while mine doesn't
@@nokia6800 Cheers for the input! With literally one sample size (of disc and sram) within people i know, my view may be a bit warped. Likely sram also fixed some of their design flaws with the axs generation
Find a better mechanic
@@noahhalbfoster6892 I'm the mechanic. The bike shop where I live can't even true a wheel.
The pistons in the brake lever don't move as well as they should, seems to be a known issue after some mileage, but carefully reducing the diameter of the plastic ring is a risky step when replacement parts are unavailable and/or expensive
@@LordFata I have Rival 1 (gen 1) on my CX bike and haven't had any clearance issues yet, are you keeping ontop of cleaning the pistons with IPA then DOT fluid? The other alternative could be swapping out just the caliper for an aftermarket one (Hope are pretty good), saves $$$.
Never spoke about the difference in recharging.
That was the Video i was looking for, for a long time. Thank you 🫶🏽
You talk about servowave introduced on grx di2 but don’t mention that this ISN’T included on 105 di2.
👀 Spotted those new Fizik artica R5’s winter cycling road shoes and waiting for the review
👀
I am a shimano person. But AXS is better. There are categories not included that would have been in srams favor like the convenience of being completely wireless. And the road groups are completely compatible with each other and compatible with mountain bike groups as well. Have a gravel bike coming with rival / gx eagle mullet. Very excited to see how it works.
That ten tooth cog is going to need a pretty strong tailwind to make it useful.
And a downhill
With SRAM, you can readily disconnect the batteries and carry them to the charger while the bike remains in the shed. With Shimano, you have to carry the bike to the charger.
that's like once every 2-3 months and the bike is in the garage anyway, but OK.
I'm a Shimano user for a long time. I've used also Campagnolo ( Veloce) for like 3 years. but switched back to Shimano. I'm considering building a new bike using Sram, maybe a mix & match between Rival with Red or Force, to shave some weight off. I'm familiar with Shimano mix & match. The wider gear range is getting my attention.
Reddit would disagree with the shifting science. Shifting with gloves make Sram the clear winner in their category. Additionally, setting up Sram is superior to Di2. I’m not a fanboy, just pointing out missed information since Sram can be set up easier and less of a fuss in winter riding.
I just tried Rival and I was thoroughly impressed. The only thing I could maybe critique is the front derailleur down shift. A little slower than the up shift. Otherwise it is the same concept for shifting like using paddles in a car. I did not know about the power meter. Thanks for the comparison. Cheers.
Rival is a boat anchor in terms of weight.
I will still prefer machanical as an option......
Just get out and enjoy riding. I think the electronic shifting is cool and minimalist. If you can afford it and you really want or need (especially if your a racer) it go for it. But for me I’m fine with cable/mechanical shifting. I started on friction shifting then SIS in the late 80s and I rode hundreds of miles with little to no issue. Life and $$ happened and cycling was put on the shelf for a few decades (I’m a runner and cycling is a alternative). I recently got back into it and for me I’m enjoying the suppler side of cycling. I just don’t want to see mechanical shifting go the way of the dodo. I think new is good but not at the cost of the old which seems to be the trend.
Good choice, SRAM all the way. True wireless and dummy proof operation.
For me, the only real thing I'd have as a niggle about the SRAM stuff would be how you shift. I've been on Shimano shifters all my life and I'm almost 50. I don't know how easy it'd be to adapt.
im 50 and have used Shimano my entire life, I got a santa cruz stigmata last year with rival, it took a few rides, you get used to it very quicky
I rode Shimano forever when I first started road cycling. I switched to SRAM well over a decade ago and have loved SRAM ever since. I have nothing against Shimano and would try them out again and would easily ride them........just prefer SRAM overall. You have to get use to either as the shifting goes but I suspect each keeps close tabs on the other so which ever group set you get, they are close in comparison in all reality and comes to personal preference at the end of the day.
I've had generally good experiences with SRAM on the mountain bike but AXS road shifting and reliability has been absolutely horrendous. I've gone through 2 Force wide and 1 Rival axs rear mechs in the span of a year and a half. Everything was warrantied but it took forever. Not too mention how terrible the front shifting is. Shimano is better in every way.
What failed on the front mechs?
I'm a mechanic and can confirm these experiences are common. SRAM is good about warrantying things because good lord do they need to be...
SRAM = Land Rover, Shimano = Toyota. Toyota has zero emotion to the driving experience, but will outlast you, land rovers are beautiful and fun to drive over weekend, when they aren’t in the garage being repaired during the week 😆
@@MrJonas2255 I just ordered an Orbea Orca today. It's a husband wife duo and they literally refused to sell me a SRAM equipped bike. They said this exact same thing, which really surprised me. I've had SRAM Force on another bike and had zero problems.
nice work. what about switching out batteries on the longer trips? I'd heard that SRAM has replaceable batteries.... BTW: what's your rear tire pressure? Never seen such deflection!!! 🙂
Why is never spare part cost mentioned in these comparisons? SRAM complete groupsets are cheaper than shimano but cassesttes, chains and chainrings are way more expensive. How is that even possible? On top of that I have read comments that shimano components are more durable than SRAM. I could accept 10-15% price difference with comparable durability but we are talking here about double and sometimes even triple the price of components. Anyone has heard a plausible explanation for this huge price difference?
I was only riding my Kinesis GTDv2 equipped with 105 di2 over in Charterhouse earlier this week! It could have been me in the video! 😂 I chose 105 di2 because SRAM brakes are 💩. I did upgrade my rotors to 160 MT800 front and rear. I would recommend anyone considering 105 di2 to do the same.
Great review Warren I’m lucky enough to have Sram Red and wouldn’t go back to Shimano
What a surprise it’s a draw! Bikerader wouldn’t dare actually do a review with a winner through fear of corporate backlash
1: I’m sorry but the fact is that 105 di2 doesn’t cost more than Rival it’s actually cheaper. Why do journalists always get this wrong 🤦🏻♂️
2: SRAMs front derailleur are some of the worst out there. If you’re not precise within a milliliter it drops the chain.
And good luck adjusting it so there are no chainrub when crosschaining. It can be done on Sram from time to time. On Shimano it’s so so easy because of its lateral movement are bigger.
3: yes Sram got wider gearing but who cares about a 10 cog if the jump between gears are too big so you can’t get a cadence that fits you.
I could have guessed that was going to be a draw before it even started.
When the first point was awarded for "slightly higher rear shift speed that you would barely notice on the road" but talked up the clutch in the Sram but then ignored it, I thought in my he must be setting this up for a draw 😄
@@smuy3782 hahaha 😆 at least he picked a groupset at the end. As soon as I see these scoring reviews I cringe.
Cant risk the ad shilling for Sram and Shimano at the same time when the new update comes around.
@@yarlon2014 100% right
Can you upgrade the crankset with for instance 4iii power meter on the new 105 di2? (similar "approach" to what you are able to do with the SRAM rival axs)
Enjoyed the video very informative👍 On another matter I noticed you were riding a Dolan, I don’t know if you’ve seen Hambini video which was pretty hard hitting…have you reviewed the bike in terms of its handling, ride quality etc?
Terrible shouting over 0,001mm s. Horribic.
I love Shimano ergonomics and internal battery but I hate that long and very ugly 105 rear derailleur cage. SRAM looks much neater and has smaller chain-sets.
so SRAM has larger gear jumps (smaller front chainrings). Not good.
I’d like to know which groupsets are best for women! My wife hated lower tier Shimano because the levers were so huge. Now she wants electronic shifting. The price of SRAM and its gear ranges are appealing for her, but Shimano looks like it has better ergonomics for small hands.
All New levers have adjustment nowadays.
Warren - how soon before you see Chinese electronic group sets become main stream and take up a serious gap that’s exists due to the current pricing of the mainstream manufacturers.
About Shimano 105 groupsets, eletronic and mechanical, are Di2 heavier than R7020?
Can you also Connect the sram with a head unit of Garmin to see the gears ?
Yes
I got a full 7100 105 Di2 groupset from Tokyo for 1200$ while SRAM Rival was 100$ more
Do a video on 12s 105 Vs 11s duraace.
...what do extra powermeters have to do with the evaluation of a circuit!?!?!
I have sram rival etap on my road bike,without problem this year.
What tyre pressures are you running? On some shots, I can see fairly significant tyre deformation on the pedal strokes.
The one you can set it wired and has rim brakes option. So Ultegra.
Sram winning the front shifting part… just what the hell?
They had to even it up
Rival is so much better because of the pricing. Should compare 105 to Force rather
It's much cheaper so it's an obvious winner if they've come head to head.
what about shifting on climbing?
Great groupsets but the price tags are so insane. I hope chinese manufacturing improves so there are more alternatives for costumers.
Dont buy chinese!!
The Rival price should be given more score for being much cheaper. If you can't afford the price of 105 then your only option is 105
Which is the best? The one without the freaking battery.
I was a shimano fan but shimano has gone full on Toyota. Japanese reliable but resistant to change and lacking innovation. Sram is cheaper, more intuitive and has more gear options. That’s not even a competition anymore.
Rival for me😊
Never used sram. In all of my 40 years of riding. I'm thinking I want yo try it. Maybe get some sram stuff next rip
Until Di2 gets rid of the 'wires' it will never be 'wireless' and as much as I love Shimano brakes over SRAM, AXS is heads and tails above Di2, because AXS IS wireless.
I own a Di2 and AXS bike and like the mechanical parts of Shimano, but the SRAM app experience is a lot better. Shimano shifts much smoother and the rear derailleur is more svelte than the bulky AXS RD.
Electronic shifting doesn't make you faster. I'll get the new Ltwoo RX hydrolic road/gravel(1x12 or 1x11) groupset instead. Cycling is for health, pleasure and adventure end of the day and to spend a lot for money to get and maintain an unnecessary expensive equipment is wrong for me. I hope with Ltwoo on the market now Shimano and Sram will drop the prices and will start offering mechanical hydraulic groupsets again. Regards,
Dont buy chinese if u value ur future
You didn't mention can easily swap batteries on the sram
Because ya bloody well need to 😂
Mechanical ultegra please come back
Why lol?
shimano all day
Shimano just to avoid dot 4 fluid. Don’t know why SRAM went that way, but a big negative for home mechanics
Why? It's no harder to work on. I have both and find Sram system much easier to bleed.
@@smuy3782 It's corrosive and very difficult to not spill.
It'll be corrosive if you don't rinse it off if you spill it. It only needs to be rinsed away with water and you don't even need to rush. It's not like battery acid.
Surely you clean up the spilt mineral oil too?
The most expensive $$$$ is the best, everyone knows unless you have a brand new world class pro tour bike you're no good no matter how much you train 🙄
I get you are sarcastic, but hey who says that? Everyone knows that a stronger rider is faster ever if he/she rides a cheaper bike.
These videos though, of course feature the new expensive not so important stuff. Otherwise they’d have nothing to talk about or show.
There is no 11-36 cassette for 105 and no date when it’s out.
As a separate purchase - September 2023 (!!)
Apparently they are prioritising/hoarding them for OEM complete bikes which includes 105 and upcoming GRX.
Shimano always worth for money
If you're buying a complete bike from the shop, 105 is going to be your best bang for buck.
If you're building, then go for Sram Force over 105. Skip the Rival groupo.
on my experience
rear shifting = sram
front shifting = shimano
So a 1x decision is pretty clear then! Not to mention SRAM’s huge choice of cassettes
Why don't you use lights in the daytime .....abit dangerous don't you think without lights
Sram is better in every way, exept grip ergo IMO
Put some air in your tyres. Setting my anxiety running 🤣
Pushing two buttons at the same time to switch the front is the biggest loss for Sram for me
Battery life far batter in DI2, thus a win...
Shimano always
Front chainring options on the SRAM are very limiting and very pricey, while Shimano you can choose up to 53/39. The SRAM flat top chain was tested as adding 3-5watts of friction compared to the Shimano which was best in class. SRAM parts are soft and last 2/3 the distance of Shimano, and come replacement time have been a problem to source, and very expensive. Battery range fatigue in the SRAM Groupset have become a meme, with riders purchasing spare batteries for backup while out riding, Shimano you charge a central battery that lasts months. While the data on the app is appealing, it won’t make you ride reliably and as quick as the Shimano, while enjoying an economic sense of ownership.
Sounds like you're not going to be tempted away from Shimano any time soon, Neil?
@@bikeradar for my mountain and gravel bikes, no two ways about it, sram is the way to go, for road Shimano is still the best.
What about comparing battery life during use? @bikeradar
According to Warren - "60 hours for Rival AXS - though only takes 45 minutes to charge. Shimano claim around 1000km for di2 which in practice means I charge mine around every 4-6 weeks"
@@bikeradar the 1000km looks better since it's bigger absolute number but I would think it's comparable since 60 hours at about 16.6 kph (or 12.5 mph) works out to about 1000km also. An average of 16.6 kph seems doable for many folks this price range (& higher) unless you ride in some very hilly areas.
All this talk about how expensive 105 di2 is and yet so many bikes are cheaper equipped with 105 di2 with same specs give or take different bar tape or some other insignificant piece. Just shows you never know once brand make deals and actually put the parts on bikes.
can we have sram wireless with shimano brakes? lel
100% Rival
After the crank fiasco, Shimano is dead to me! Never, ever, will buy another Shimano product!
I just enjoy all the second hand "peasant" 7kg mechanical rimbrake bikes that are going for peanuts.
I pass for those ridiculous "upgrades".
Electronic shifting, aero and discbrakes are all gimmicks that are worthless for the average weekend warrior.
Bikes are meant to make cycling more fun and easy. Now bikes are getting so complicated you are forced to go to a bikeshop even to change something simple as a stem (if you dont have a 1 piece bar-stem combo).
Shame on all of those generic cycling channels promoting all of this garbage! 👎
I totally agree with you, just picked up a rim brake giant tcr SL 2019 model with ultegra / DA, slr0 carbon wheels in a size M/L weighs 6.81kg and cost me £1800.00
New bikes like the new Scott Addict RC 16K and its heavier 😂😂 I could of got 8 of the Giant SLs used for the price of 1 Addict RC the industry has lost it imo