"I am pissed your organization waited until the last game to put Jameis Winston on the field! You made the same mistakes the Saints made with him. Under Sean Payton, before a dirty player from the Buccaneers our rivals horse-collared him and caused a torn ACL & MCL, the team was 6-2 with Jameis putting up huge numbers. Then Dennis Allen, a terrible coach who knows nothing about being a head coach (that’s why he was fired from the Raiders), takes over. But because of the GM and his stubbornness not to recognize that, the team is paying the price to this day. That man caused Jameis' second injury by not recruiting the right players for the offensive line to protect him in the pocket. In the Falcons game, they broke through the line every single snap, hitting Jameis full speed, which caused his back fractures. He got a shot, came back, and still won that game. Dennis didn’t want Jameis, in spite of what the fans wanted. He even tried to get Watson before his first season takeover, disrespecting Winston. It caused racial tension amongst the fans that never recovered. Some people, like myself, are no longer WHO DAT! because of it. Dennis sabotaged Jameis just to bring in Derek Carr. Look where that got them! Karma is whipping the Saints' A… because of it, and rightfully so."
The cherry on top of all this is Kevin NOW giving up play calling. This staff does nothing when there is smoke and tries to make change once the house is already burned down smh.
That pisses me off so bad honestly. The play calling and benching Watson should’ve already happened way sooner but They just can’t seem to swallow their pride and own up to it. If I see Jed Wills play for a full season im honestly gonna lose it.
Your points about Stefanski’s undisciplined brand of football is 💯 spot on. There is a foundational reason we are having problems from both sides of the ball, problems with time management, special teams are terrible, and constant penalties. Watch this video 3x if you still think Stefanski is just an unfortunate puppet of Haslam’s. I’m not giving Haslam, Watson, or Berry a pass. But Kevin answers for the teams laid back sloppy play.
I initially didn't want Deshaun Watson since he was swept by the entire AFC North in 2020...the bad press was just a kicker. Also, I was hoping Baker would get a chance to rehab his injuries...I was hoping we would draft people in the first round...When we picked up Cooper it was exciting. AB was on a high and everything was good. Then... ...Nooooooo...worst football trade decision in history.
Bake forced it though, if you were plugged in the week that it went down. He chose to act like a scorned lover because they had talked to someone else, when reportedly they were forth right about it, although generically, ahead of time. I am a baker fan and defender, and I even understand the emotions because I am touchy and sensitive too. But calling a spade a spade, he forced it. He wrote his resignation letter publicly to Cleveland and asked the club for a trade. THEN the worst trade ever was forced, out of complete and understandable desperation.
I remember when Browns fans cheered after Derrick Anderson got injured. Some people are just like that. The only difference is back then we regretted doing it the next day after sobering up.
The offensive coaching staff completely turned over. Of all years to entrust play calling to your coordinator- this was it. I can’t understand Kevin’s decision not to. A new staff needed his undivided attention. It shows on the field in mental mistakes, blown assignments, penalties, etc. I didn’t cheer when Watson went down. I felt RELIEVED. The drama was now over. At press conferences Watson looked and sounded miserable. The coaches and players seemed miserable and worn out about it all. The fans were miserable and definitely had enough. Another year flushed.
Nailed it!! Idk maybe the thought of maintaining play calling was hoping for at least ONE thing consistent… although with switching so much staff and scheme wise, maybe you’re right! Maybe would’ve been better letting the main guy in charge of offensive practice and schemes, call it game day… who knows, guess we’ll get a better idea soon enough… my only concern is the “nightmare” stories from bills fans… 😂🤷🏻♂️
@@MarcDshort108 I hear you! I’ve always been cautious about nightmare stories. Keep in mind that Baker was considered a nightmare but he’s seemingly snapped out of it. Oftentimes players and coaches make mistakes that the fans and team will never forgive. They learn from their mistakes and move on. It’s their only way out of that prison. Consider Vrabel. He was COY but eventually fired yet Browns’ fans see him as a great option. I have a suspicion that he was brought in as just that. He’s been serving as player and coach consultant and has a history with Schwartz. I believe he’s been re-building the Browns’ staff and introducing a psyche with the players in stealth mode. He’s likely Kevin’s replacement. Kevin appears to have lost the locker room.
This all began when someone started saying that the Browns “wanted an adult in the locker room,” and gone was Baker. Who started that talk. Was it media? Baker is now a top 10 NFL QB. And the Browns return to skid row.
"I am pissed your organization waited until the last game to put Jameis Winston on the field! You made the same mistakes the Saints made with him. Under Sean Payton, before a dirty player from the Buccaneers our rivals horse-collared him and caused a torn ACL & MCL, the team was 6-2 with Jameis putting up huge numbers. Then Dennis Allen, a terrible coach who knows nothing about being a head coach (that’s why he was fired from the Raiders), takes over. But because of the GM and his stubbornness not to recognize that, the team is paying the price to this day. That man caused Jameis' second injury by not recruiting the right players for the offensive line to protect him in the pocket. In the Falcons game, they broke through the line every single snap, hitting Jameis full speed, which caused his back fractures. He got a shot, came back, and still won that game. Dennis didn’t want Jameis, in spite of what the fans wanted. He even tried to get Watson before his first season takeover, disrespecting Winston. It caused racial tension amongst the fans that never recovered. Some people, like myself, are no longer WHO DAT! because of it. Dennis sabotaged Jameis just to bring in Derek Carr. Look where that got them! Karma is whipping the Saints' A… because of it, and rightfully so."
Future candidates Mike Vrabel. Or the offensive coordinator for the Washington team. That coached the Cardinals before. Let's not bring in a another coordinator with no headcoaching experience.
Every Cleveland fan who was wearing "funny" shirts about massages deserves alllll of this and more. Congrats on the serial predator, your team just got set back another decade or so. Well done!
Even if he is a serial predator, that has nothing to do with what happened. If he was playing well, you wouldn’t have anything to say because winning covers all wrongs. Ben Rothleisberger is an example.
@@Conshnz Wrong again. I could not care less if Cleveland wins. Fuck the NFL. Roethlisberger has been a piece of shit since Miami University. I know, I was there.
I know there’s no reason to believe DTR is the future, but I really like watching him play. Also, he seems like a good, hard working dude. Easy to root for. I’d really like to see him finish the season over Jameis.
Actually, I HATED the trade for Watson. I have a tendency to root for players and people of good character. That being said, I DIDN'T cheer when he got hurt, but I will admit I had a lot less empathy for him than I did for Nick Chubb. The Browns QB I most wanted to see succeed was Tyrod Taylor. Even if Watson had played well the combination of his Salary and loss of draft capital made it a bad deal. If a player who is already on the team gets an exorbitant salary at least the team can keep their draft picks.
Not a Browns fan but know many. To a person each one of my friends who root for the Browns were upset when Baker left and were livid when they signed Watson. They were upset because they didn't want a moral reprobate as their QB. I respect them.
If Kevin is let go, we should promote Vrabel to HC. I know not many love this idea but Vrabel will make this team a disciplined team. He will put a hyper focus on all the details. He will bench guys if they are giving a Jed Wills type of effort on the field. He’s a general and that’s what you need at HC. I like Stefanski but maybe we need to let him go and promote Vrabel and keep everyone else in place.
HA! they hit rock bottom in 1995. Everything from that point on has been a pleasure by comparison. These Zombie Browns are going to figure it out one day.
I think its important to mention that DW was never charged or convicted of criminal crime. Ppl keep calling him a bad person based on 'allegations' made by ppl suing for money .
If fans Didn't like the pick of Watson because of the off field issues. Then why are you going to the games or being a browns fan anymore. Big Ben had some moral issues to . The fans didn't treat him like that. Even BAKER had the cheese cake factory thing back in 2021 going on that was brought up. Browns have been drama for years. This is why they will never be a superbowl team.
New Orleans Ricky Williams trade, Cleveland DWatz trade, Carolina Bryce Young Trade: three worst ever - MAYBE IT’S REALLY HARD TO TRY TO COMPETE AS A SMALL MARKET
I left the Browns when they dumped Baker for this pervert and I never cared how well he played. I think you’re very wrong about your “95%” comment. A LOT of my fellow Browns fans ditched the team entirely when they decided to hire a sexual weirdo. Go Lions.
Or the coach doesn't have enough depth And he can't really bench people because he doesn't have anybody else to fill in their spot? Because the GM has drafted terribly!
The moment I heard James Brown I knew this was gonna be another good one. Keep it up dude. You’re living the dream. (Or the nightmare depending on how you look at it😂)
Everybody understands everything until something like this happens and people just end up playing themselves. This shit isn’t confusing AT ALL. Browns front office lacked foresight. Some Browns fans lack common decency. Browns players were hurt and disturbed by what happened to Deshaun and the reaction. That’s reality.
Stefanski is seriously overrated. That game was winnable and yet he put in DTR instead of Jameis. Presumably because he wanted to spite the fans? Yeah, that’s real professional. What a regard.
I was waiting on Joe to make a video on this Browns drama. As always, EXCELLENT STUFF👍👍. Wills has to go. That attitude is dragging everyone down. It clearly looks like he just dont give a 💩💩💩💩 Love the intro, keep it up!
My ideal scenario is Haslam sells the team. I believe he is the cancer metastasizing into the rest of the organization! The Lerner group was a bunch of crooks too. We need a solid owner. Haslam is the B version of Jerry Jones.
I wanna know how much say Kev had in who started at QB. That would tell me a lot about how this yr went. Nobody that watched tape on watson can honestly say he was the best option. If it was his decision,then he can follow watson iut of Cleveland too!
Kevin in his style of offense was just ok as a head coach/playcaller. It was nothing great. And in todays nfl those type of quarterbacks are fading away (play action pocket passer game manager) type qbs. I don’t believe stefanski does well with the mobile quarterbacks. Even if we had Lamar he would force him into a pocket passer. mayfield was an improviser type qb not really a pocket passer and it didn’t work out. Even if we draft a shaduer sanders, milroe or ward I don’t think stefanski or the browns will do well when he is at the helm of the offense. We’ve had so many weapons from obj Landry njoku Chubb and hunt all in their prime and we have nothing to show for it.
If watson played lights out his whole time in Cleveland and didnt have this last allegation,than id say ur right. This last one the "grape" case was it for me. I didnt want him here because i thought the price was to steep! To much time away from the game and not knowing how long he was gonna be suspended for. No damn way was that gonna be a good trade IMO
@@bryan-still-a-poker-player I wear "Baker Bro" as a badge of honor. Never wanted Watson. Browns did Baker wrong. You, like the organization, are a clown show. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡😁 Now that Watson is gone, I can root for the Browns again. They are the Cleveland Browns, not the Cleveland Predators.
@warrenash5370 you are the clown show, glazing a guy that ran himself outta town and refused to meet the owner after watson said no. Your bestie Baker acting like a spoiled child is the reason we ended up with watson. Baker did you and all the Baker bros dirty in his final season. First by refusing to get surgery he played himself outta of a contract and Secondly by refusing to meet the owner to work things out. You can cry all you want and say he was justified in being mad they tried to get watson but this is a business and if he would have been more mature he would have met haslem and the chances they make watson the offer he couldn't refuse drops to almost zero. Baker not being here is on Baker. I used to be a Baker bro, I didn't want them to move on at the time. But after the premature goodbye cleveland letter and refusing to meet haslem I lost my respect for him and I'm pissed off about it because it led to them trading for a garbage human being that I had to try to root for despite being disgusted by him. So F Baker and the Baker bros that still scribble his name on their notebooks and dream of being BFFS.
To be fair,it was only a small % of the fans that cheered. And i dont think anyone knew how serious the injury was. I would never cheer when someone gets hurt,but lets just say i didnt feel bad either! Its the worst trade in NFL history! Im a fan of homegrown talent! Guys that we draft amd actually want to be there. Watson didnt want to be traded here and said we were out of the running. Only changed his mind when he got offered a contract he couldnt turn down. He played in a trash division and in a dome. Never played in cold weather and nobody ever talks about that aspect of the trade. How would he handle playing in the winter on the lake? Hes been terrible sonce coming here with a few above average starts mixed in!
I'm one of the fans that never wanted him here. I didn't care if he was the same player or not. I dont believe he didn't do what he was accused of and We already had our Qb in Baker. I cheered for karma when he got hurt
Who they hell were they to think they were better than Baker Mayfield? The guy was surrounded with no talent and a terrible defense his whole time in Cleveland! He had a healthy obj and Landry when they hired the worst HC in NFL history in Freddie kitchens!
DTR looked terrible his first start in Baltimore with a half hour notice and no reps that week. No repa at practice this weeks and thrown into a game when were trailing,again with no practice reps. That being said, Winston needs to be the starter imo. The wrs r trash!
I wouldnt go THAT far. Did they make the playoffs twice in the past decade? Not to mention winning 1/2 playoff games. Some of it is on the team, coach yes. Even the QB Watson saga. Honestly this is most on the owner he should of forseen this. All I got to say is his $ and goodluck getting that new stadium Brookpark at this rate.
@tystarnes All I know is the teams were far more disciplined. He did more with less talented players too. This is the most undisciplined team I've ever seen. A bunch of overgrown soft babies.
I bought a Brissett Jersey the day he was signed. Watson is terrible, I booed him in every game. I cheered his injury. Not for his pain, I cheered it was finally over.
All coaches and gms make mistakes i believe that we shouldn't blow this up...lets see if these people can fix it...but they have to win NOW...and prove they learned from it.GO BROWNS
Does it really matter if it's DTR or Winston both are not the answer honestly were a ton better off going 2-15 versus 6-11 why you ask yes of course the draft picks right now that's all the matters. Since a 1/3 of the team needs to bexreplaced next season with up to 10 drafts picks being the major oart of the rebuild.
Joey, if Dorsey was brought on to help Watson and now Jameis is the starting QB, why would Kevin give play calling to him. Kevin's scheme worked w flacco and Winston is similar type QB. I don't get this..
You make your points about the fans, not on current reality but a bunch of ifs. Your reasoning is not based on reality and a lot of assumptions. IF he were the player he was in Houston, well #1 he’s not and even if he was, most fans are there to watch football and support other players on the team. They hold their noses and wear bags over their heads when it comes to Deshaun. Actually the vast majority of the people I know do not consume entertainment or vote for people who are morally reprehensible. If they are aware ( the problem with many people is that they are blissfully ignorant )that a person, a musician, an actor or director, a politician etc. have done terrible things, they have nothing to do with them. After all of the revelations about Hollywood the lack of support for movies is at an all time low. Hollywood is dying and the music industry is dying. People are disgusted by the entertainment industry. I no longer vote for anyone because they are all criminals, liars and crooks. ALL of them! Your assumption that 95% of the people would support those people is totally wrong in my experience. What I find funny is that you are now being the person who is acting morally superior by judging other people and by telling us how we should act.🤦♂️🤣 Unlike the unemployed PAID protesters we’ve seen the past few years, the majority of Browns fans have jobs and responsibilities to take care of and don’t have time to drive to the stadium to protest. Isn’t it possible to protest in other ways? Not buying team gear, not going to games they would have otherwise gone to? Etc., etc. You wanted them to protest right? Booing is protest. Maybe the fans, who by the way, love their team, love their city and love other players on team, were cheering his injury because he was killing the team, embarrassing, shaming and humiliating the city and ruining other players careers. As you say though, unless we are totally saintly in all aspects of our lives, we aren’t allowed to be bothered by Deshaun, right? You are hilarious. Maybe they were cheering because now, finally, he’d be off the field and they wouldn’t have to see him or deal with any more of his terrible behavior. Now they could go to a game and not feel ashamed for going. You do realize he just paid a woman a million dollars to shut up and not talk to the NFL about a rape. She filed and a week later it was settled. He knew if she talked to the NFL and the lawyer showed them the compelling video evidence she had, he’d be suspended and the Browns would then be able to void his contract. Yet another black eye for the city of Cleveland and the Browns. Yet another reason to be embarrassed and ashamed. Since you feel so righteous about telling everybody how they should feel and think, now it’s my turn to tell you. Stop judging other people and only talk about sports. Stick to the games on the field and only talk about that because when you go outside those lines, you come off as an arrogant ass. Oh and the players need to shut up. When they said nothing about bringing a serial sexual abuser on the team or a guy who just paid off a rape victim. Unbelievable.
The players have been there for what a couple of years or so. Us fans have been there since what we were 3 lol. Big difference that is why some of the "5%" get so unbelievably mad then you add beer what do you get? People cheering for another human get hurt. I
Why everybody keep overlooking Kevin like he’s not the head coach baffles me. Fans went from Watson to Andrew Berry and Jimmy never Kevin he is the head coach. No other team in the nfl blames there quarterback for all there problems and then when the quarterback out go straight to the GM. 5 years 1 and 6 start no playoff wins ( Mike Phifer won that playoff game as head coach when Kevin was in the basement ) should of been fired not giving up play calling 😂you go from good to terrible when you come here from bad to good when you leave here. Last time I checked Andrew Berry and Jimmy doesn’t coach the team they just bring in talent and last time I check we still a talent team. So why it’s not showing? Who is in charge of this Talent? Yea Kevin Stafanski. So why do y’all keep giving him a pass is crazy to me. Joey me and you been back and forth and you the most honest out of your podcast but Kevin is past due brother.
Been watching since the beginning my guy but the Stefanski take is a bit of a straw man argument. There isnt much of a direct correlation to penalized teams and losing. Yes Stefanski’s have been in the bottom third of the league for his tenure but hes also had two playoff runs among that. It didnt hinder the success then therefore its unfair to use it as an argument against retaining him now. There are arguments to be made, the penalties one isnt one of them. Neither is the “players dont fear him” mentality which is frankly a bit juvenile. I think Stefanski is far from the key problem that needs to be fixed. He is the reigning 2 time CotY and has earned the right to steer the ship out of these waters that I highly doubt he was the person of steering them into it in the first place
I get what you're saying that it isn't completely correlated - but untimely penalties are absolutely correlated to blown scoring opportunities - how may times have they taken false starts from inside the 10 yard line this year? And regarding the fear statement - I'm over simplifying what I mean - what I'm talking about is the perceieved strength that a coach has - if they know a GM gets final say or DePodesta gets the final say regarding playing time/roster moves it makes him weak i.e. the fear statement
@@optimisticfanclub Ah, I see what you're saying now. Yeah I think those are fair points actually. The timing of the penalties has been back breaking this season. I still tend to lean towards blame of penalties more on players than coaching. I'm good friends with an ex-Browns DT and when I ask him about it he's always of the mindset, "We're grown men getting paid for this. We've been doing this our whole lives. Mental mistakes are on us." That being said, the argument of lack of accountability you make is something I think I underestimated initially. Watching back the game the body language is AWFUL all around the offense, and that can be a reflection on Kevin. It's just super sad that I felt like this team was finally becoming a respected, well-run organization, only for impulsive ownership to blow that up (based on the information at my disposal). We spent 4 years building an identity and an offense with players that fit a certain mold. But because we have to make the most out of a quarter of a billion dollar investment forced upon us, ownership made the coach replace virtually his entire offensive staff and implement a brand new scheme, mind you after the offense finished the season seemingly clicking on all cylinders. I worry Kevin will never be able to fully operate the offense he envisioned with the QB of his choice here. Instead now he's calling a brand new system with players seemingly not the right fit, and it very well could cost him his job because of choices out of his control (again based on the information I have).
How has Stefanski escaped relatively unscathed. People. Look at his collective record over his tenure. It’s not pretty. NE Ohio is so sorry that mediocrity is accepted.
Lets be honest, the only difference here is some people thought it was good Watson was injured but didnt say it, and the others thought it was good and cheered. Realistically that doesnt make anyone better than anyone else, its just a case of opening your mouth. The 95% figure is survivorship bias to me. Lots of people left the browns fandom without announcing their departure, so you are talking about 95% of whats left of the fandom. Lastly, films and music, just like football, is a team effort. So just as you root for the Browns despite Watson and might be happier with him gone, others might enjoy those things but be happier if it didnt involve reprehensible people. And those people may cheer when the law catches up to those bad people. Watson hasnt been put behind bars so cheering other punishments like an injury is the next best thing to them. The X and Os of this is good but the moral grandstanding is almost unlistenable.
@@optimisticfanclubOk but what does that add to the conversation? A person can't criticise anything unless they themselves are an "ethical person"? If criticising Watson for his actions off the field is to be a "White Knight" then regardless how you frame it, you are placing your warped morality onto others and making a judgement. Hence the moral grandstanding. I came to this channel because I wanted to see if Deshaun was actually that bad or people were just dog piling. I wanted the in depth look at the plays rather than relying on stats and you delivered. But if you were truly agnostic about Watson then why would you go into detail about peoples reactions? To me agnostic would be "yeah he was injured, some people booed and cheered but that's up to them. People can feel how they want. I'm agnostic on the whole thing"
@stu8095 I’m not saying you’re white knight for judging watson’s off field activity, I’m saying you’re a white knight if you never said anything and now that you don’t have to deal with him as the starter you’re now being vocal about it. There’s no use in a discussion like this over a comment section - glad you enjoyed parts of it but I obviously didn’t explain what I was trying to say well enough
@@optimisticfanclub I agree that Watson's play on the field should have no bearing on how you view him. I have to say I haven't seen many people in that camp as most were split at the start. The Deshaun die hards wouldn't hear anything bad against him, others never accepted him and the rest seemed beat down and just hoped he could do something. I would think the people cheering and being vocal are the people that never accepted him. The last lot were just relieved. Thank you for taking the time to reply anyway.
I spent his forst few yrs hating Stefanski. He won me over last yr! Kev has only had legit QB play one yr and we won a playoff game. And our def was awful that yr! Idk how we judge kev until AB gets him a QB!
Big fan, love your analysis, but seeing you bite the DTR bait like alot of this fan base is disappointing. DTR is not it and should be traded. Just doesnt have the confidence or intangibles to start in this league. We dont need 7 games to know it.
Confidence is not an issue for him, he has an extremely strong arm and is fast as a skill player - nothing is changing this season, why wouldn’t you want to see what’s there? Also, if he has only played a few games and isn’t good he wouldn’t have any trade value
@@optimisticfanclub well Im just wanting anything for him because he is young and that alone will give you value. And the confidence Im talking about is the confidence to run this offense, I can see he has confidence in his athletic ability. I just believe with more time we will see more of the same. Not much more or less.
Become an official member of The Optimistic Fan Club: patreon.com/OptimisticFanClub
"I am pissed your organization waited until the last game to put Jameis Winston on the field! You made the same mistakes the Saints made with him. Under Sean Payton, before a dirty player from the Buccaneers our rivals horse-collared him and caused a torn ACL & MCL, the team was 6-2 with Jameis putting up huge numbers. Then Dennis Allen, a terrible coach who knows nothing about being a head coach (that’s why he was fired from the Raiders), takes over. But because of the GM and his stubbornness not to recognize that, the team is paying the price to this day. That man caused Jameis' second injury by not recruiting the right players for the offensive line to protect him in the pocket. In the Falcons game, they broke through the line every single snap, hitting Jameis full speed, which caused his back fractures. He got a shot, came back, and still won that game.
Dennis didn’t want Jameis, in spite of what the fans wanted. He even tried to get Watson before his first season takeover, disrespecting Winston. It caused racial tension amongst the fans that never recovered. Some people, like myself, are no longer WHO DAT! because of it. Dennis sabotaged Jameis just to bring in Derek Carr. Look where that got them! Karma is whipping the Saints' A… because of it, and rightfully so."
The cherry on top of all this is Kevin NOW giving up play calling. This staff does nothing when there is smoke and tries to make change once the house is already burned down smh.
Big facts and, the Ivey Cult is imploding. VRABEL HC/GM incoming.
That pisses me off so bad honestly. The play calling and benching Watson should’ve already happened way sooner but They just can’t seem to swallow their pride and own up to it. If I see Jed Wills play for a full season im honestly gonna lose it.
@@Rhude_tiller We need to hold them accountable for using the word Accountable in their own mantra.
He’s hard headed because he thinks he’s the smartest and everyone else is wrong.
The rest of the teams in the NFL think the Browns are chumps because of management and coaching decisions.
I have been looking for good Browns content. Think I finally found my place for it. Great takes. Thank you.
Using "good" and Browns in the same sentence is an oxymoron.
Sick of watching Quincy make the same video 5 times?
Loved the James Brown "The big payback" intro. *Chefs kiss*
Your points about Stefanski’s undisciplined brand of football is 💯 spot on. There is a foundational reason we are having problems from both sides of the ball, problems with time management, special teams are terrible, and constant penalties. Watch this video 3x if you still think Stefanski is just an unfortunate puppet of Haslam’s. I’m not giving Haslam, Watson, or Berry a pass. But Kevin answers for the teams laid back sloppy play.
Greg newsome shouldn't talk. Bullshit is him being a #1 pick and playing like a scrub
And Winston is speaking some hard shit because he knows he is starting next game
He's pathetic 🤬
I initially didn't want Deshaun Watson since he was swept by the entire AFC North in 2020...the bad press was just a kicker.
Also, I was hoping Baker would get a chance to rehab his injuries...I was hoping we would draft people in the first round...When we picked up Cooper it was exciting. AB was on a high and everything was good. Then...
...Nooooooo...worst football trade decision in history.
Bake forced it though, if you were plugged in the week that it went down. He chose to act like a scorned lover because they had talked to someone else, when reportedly they were forth right about it, although generically, ahead of time.
I am a baker fan and defender, and I even understand the emotions because I am touchy and sensitive too. But calling a spade a spade, he forced it. He wrote his resignation letter publicly to Cleveland and asked the club for a trade. THEN the worst trade ever was forced, out of complete and understandable desperation.
I remember when Browns fans cheered after Derrick Anderson got injured. Some people are just like that. The only difference is back then we regretted doing it the next day after sobering up.
The offensive coaching staff completely turned over. Of all years to entrust play calling to your coordinator- this was it. I can’t understand Kevin’s decision not to. A new staff needed his undivided attention. It shows on the field in mental mistakes, blown assignments, penalties, etc. I didn’t cheer when Watson went down. I felt RELIEVED. The drama was now over. At press conferences Watson looked and sounded miserable. The coaches and players seemed miserable and worn out about it all. The fans were miserable and definitely had enough. Another year flushed.
Nailed it!! Idk maybe the thought of maintaining play calling was hoping for at least ONE thing consistent… although with switching so much staff and scheme wise, maybe you’re right! Maybe would’ve been better letting the main guy in charge of offensive practice and schemes, call it game day… who knows, guess we’ll get a better idea soon enough… my only concern is the “nightmare” stories from bills fans… 😂🤷🏻♂️
@@MarcDshort108 I hear you! I’ve always been cautious about nightmare stories. Keep in mind that Baker was considered a nightmare but he’s seemingly snapped out of it. Oftentimes players and coaches make mistakes that the fans and team will never forgive. They learn from their mistakes and move on. It’s their only way out of that prison. Consider Vrabel. He was COY but eventually fired yet Browns’ fans see him as a great option. I have a suspicion that he was brought in as just that. He’s been serving as player and coach consultant and has a history with Schwartz. I believe he’s been re-building the Browns’ staff and introducing a psyche with the players in stealth mode. He’s likely Kevin’s replacement. Kevin appears to have lost the locker room.
I wonder if a part of Watson was even relieved, because at least he didn't have to go do another one of those press conferences after stinking it up.
It has been so exhausting being a Browns fan for close to 4 decades
Over 50 years for me. Started in 1971.
This all began when someone started saying that the Browns “wanted an adult in the locker room,” and gone was Baker. Who started that talk. Was it media? Baker is now a top 10 NFL QB. And the Browns return to skid row.
You mean skid marks.
"I am pissed your organization waited until the last game to put Jameis Winston on the field! You made the same mistakes the Saints made with him. Under Sean Payton, before a dirty player from the Buccaneers our rivals horse-collared him and caused a torn ACL & MCL, the team was 6-2 with Jameis putting up huge numbers. Then Dennis Allen, a terrible coach who knows nothing about being a head coach (that’s why he was fired from the Raiders), takes over. But because of the GM and his stubbornness not to recognize that, the team is paying the price to this day. That man caused Jameis' second injury by not recruiting the right players for the offensive line to protect him in the pocket. In the Falcons game, they broke through the line every single snap, hitting Jameis full speed, which caused his back fractures. He got a shot, came back, and still won that game.
Dennis didn’t want Jameis, in spite of what the fans wanted. He even tried to get Watson before his first season takeover, disrespecting Winston. It caused racial tension amongst the fans that never recovered. Some people, like myself, are no longer WHO DAT! because of it. Dennis sabotaged Jameis just to bring in Derek Carr. Look where that got them! Karma is whipping the Saints' A… because of it, and rightfully so."
@@duvell1things I didn't know!
Well said Mr Ricottone!! This is why you’re one of the best at what you do.. Go Brown’s!!!
Thanks for addressing the fake moral outrage about the cheering. You are 100% right.
Future candidates Mike Vrabel. Or the offensive coordinator for the Washington team. That coached the Cardinals before. Let's not bring in a another coordinator with no headcoaching experience.
Every Cleveland fan who was wearing "funny" shirts about massages deserves alllll of this and more. Congrats on the serial predator, your team just got set back another decade or so. Well done!
Even if he is a serial predator, that has nothing to do with what happened. If he was playing well, you wouldn’t have anything to say because winning covers all wrongs. Ben Rothleisberger is an example.
@@Conshnz Wrong again. I could not care less if Cleveland wins. Fuck the NFL. Roethlisberger has been a piece of shit since Miami University. I know, I was there.
@@theonlyegg if you don’t like the NFL, why are you commenting on videos about the Browns, genius? 😂
@@Conshnz Why does a grown ass man obsess about a game of grab-ass? Lots of questions.
I know there’s no reason to believe DTR is the future, but I really like watching him play. Also, he seems like a good, hard working dude. Easy to root for. I’d really like to see him finish the season over Jameis.
I don't want any products, but want to donate $100. How do I do that?
Actually, I HATED the trade for Watson. I have a tendency to root for players and people of good character. That being said, I DIDN'T cheer when he got hurt, but I will admit I had a lot less empathy for him than I did for Nick Chubb. The Browns QB I most wanted to see succeed was Tyrod Taylor. Even if Watson had played well the combination of his Salary and loss of draft capital made it a bad deal. If a player who is already on the team gets an exorbitant salary at least the team can keep their draft picks.
Not a Browns fan but know many. To a person each one of my friends who root for the Browns were upset when Baker left and were livid when they signed Watson.
They were upset because they didn't want a moral reprobate as their QB.
I respect them.
thank you for the timely upload. now i can form my opinion solely on this video to make it sound like i know what im talking about for the next week!
If Kevin is let go, we should promote Vrabel to HC. I know not many love this idea but Vrabel will make this team a disciplined team. He will put a hyper focus on all the details. He will bench guys if they are giving a Jed Wills type of effort on the field. He’s a general and that’s what you need at HC. I like Stefanski but maybe we need to let him go and promote Vrabel and keep everyone else in place.
The Houston playoff game showed the future of the Browns this season. Can't blame that houston playoff game on DW4 last yr.
HA! they hit rock bottom in 1995. Everything from that point on has been a pleasure by comparison. These Zombie Browns are going to figure it out one day.
I love that Browns vs Steelers poster
I think its important to mention that DW was never charged or convicted of criminal crime. Ppl keep calling him a bad person based on 'allegations' made by ppl suing for money .
Like he said if you dont win games Stefanski you will be gone. Lovie Smith tanked for Jameis and still got fired.
If fans Didn't like the pick of Watson because of the off field issues. Then why are you going to the games or being a browns fan anymore. Big Ben had some moral issues to . The fans didn't treat him like that. Even BAKER had the cheese cake factory thing back in 2021 going on that was brought up. Browns have been drama for years. This is why they will never be a superbowl team.
New Orleans Ricky Williams trade, Cleveland DWatz trade, Carolina Bryce Young Trade: three worst ever - MAYBE IT’S REALLY HARD TO TRY TO COMPETE AS A SMALL MARKET
I left the Browns when they dumped Baker for this pervert and I never cared how well he played. I think you’re very wrong about your “95%” comment. A LOT of my fellow Browns fans ditched the team entirely when they decided to hire a sexual weirdo. Go Lions.
Been rooting for the Buccaneers. Now that Watson is gone, I will root for Tampa AND the Browns.
With Kevin relinquishing play calling today, the beginning of the end has begun for Kevin.
Or the coach doesn't have enough depth And he can't really bench people because he doesn't have anybody else to fill in their spot? Because the GM has drafted terribly!
Well said.
I was a Browns fan since the Bernie Kosar years. I dumped them when they hired a pervert as QB. Now I really enjoy rooting against them.
At least it's so bad it's good? Being a Browns fan is tough.
I loved Tillman! I was really high on him and i was hoping i wasnt wrong. We'll see now that hes starting!
The moment I heard James Brown I knew this was gonna be another good one. Keep it up dude. You’re living the dream. (Or the nightmare depending on how you look at it😂)
One guy cheering the injury... lol, he's all the fans. One man ruined it for 60k.
Everybody understands everything until something like this happens and people just end up playing themselves. This shit isn’t confusing AT ALL. Browns front office lacked foresight. Some Browns fans lack common decency. Browns players were hurt and disturbed by what happened to Deshaun and the reaction. That’s reality.
Give me Freddie Kitchens
@GRASSNBASS Always loved Freddie!
@@justinedse8435 I would love to have a beer with Freddie! But I was totally kidding about bringing him back. He was a joke for a football coach
All in all I like your analysis on this. Just think if they could have limited there offensive penalty. They could have been in a lot of these games.
Stefanski is seriously overrated. That game was winnable and yet he put in DTR instead of Jameis. Presumably because he wanted to spite the fans? Yeah, that’s real professional. What a regard.
Jamis wasn't activated for the game he could only play if both other quarterbacks got hurt
I was waiting on Joe to make a video on this Browns drama. As always, EXCELLENT STUFF👍👍. Wills has to go. That attitude is dragging everyone down. It clearly looks like he just dont give a 💩💩💩💩
Love the intro, keep it up!
My ideal scenario is Haslam sells the team. I believe he is the cancer metastasizing into the rest of the organization! The Lerner group was a bunch of crooks too. We need a solid owner. Haslam is the B version of Jerry Jones.
I wanna know how much say Kev had in who started at QB. That would tell me a lot about how this yr went. Nobody that watched tape on watson can honestly say he was the best option. If it was his decision,then he can follow watson iut of Cleveland too!
I really don't want a poster, but do want to contribute to your site. How do I do that? There doesn't seem to be a way like other sites I donate too.
Kevin in his style of offense was just ok as a head coach/playcaller. It was nothing great. And in todays nfl those type of quarterbacks are fading away (play action pocket passer game manager) type qbs. I don’t believe stefanski does well with the mobile quarterbacks. Even if we had Lamar he would force him into a pocket passer. mayfield was an improviser type qb not really a pocket passer and it didn’t work out. Even if we draft a shaduer sanders, milroe or ward I don’t think stefanski or the browns will do well when he is at the helm of the offense. We’ve had so many weapons from obj Landry njoku Chubb and hunt all in their prime and we have nothing to show for it.
If watson played lights out his whole time in Cleveland and didnt have this last allegation,than id say ur right. This last one the "grape" case was it for me. I didnt want him here because i thought the price was to steep! To much time away from the game and not knowing how long he was gonna be suspended for. No damn way was that gonna be a good trade IMO
Would not be shocked to see Kevin fired mid season and Vrabel named interim and probably will be next head coach
I would
The Ravens game is gonna be ugly this week lol!
yup another L, unfortunately
Hopefully 🤣
The Browns had their guy, and it STILL wasn’t enough. This is where greed gets you.
Who was their guy?
@Bravoo4 these baker bros will never let it go and it's kind of pathetic imho
@@bryan-still-a-poker-player I wear "Baker Bro" as a badge of honor. Never wanted Watson. Browns did Baker wrong. You, like the organization, are a clown show. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡😁 Now that Watson is gone, I can root for the Browns again. They are the Cleveland Browns, not the Cleveland Predators.
@warrenash5370 you are the clown show, glazing a guy that ran himself outta town and refused to meet the owner after watson said no. Your bestie Baker acting like a spoiled child is the reason we ended up with watson. Baker did you and all the Baker bros dirty in his final season. First by refusing to get surgery he played himself outta of a contract and Secondly by refusing to meet the owner to work things out. You can cry all you want and say he was justified in being mad they tried to get watson but this is a business and if he would have been more mature he would have met haslem and the chances they make watson the offer he couldn't refuse drops to almost zero. Baker not being here is on Baker. I used to be a Baker bro, I didn't want them to move on at the time. But after the premature goodbye cleveland letter and refusing to meet haslem I lost my respect for him and I'm pissed off about it because it led to them trading for a garbage human being that I had to try to root for despite being disgusted by him. So F Baker and the Baker bros that still scribble his name on their notebooks and dream of being BFFS.
@@bryan-still-a-poker-playerlol imagine defending this owner....
Keep gm and head coach, need some continuity. Just bad year, we have no line atm
To be fair,it was only a small % of the fans that cheered. And i dont think anyone knew how serious the injury was. I would never cheer when someone gets hurt,but lets just say i didnt feel bad either! Its the worst trade in NFL history! Im a fan of homegrown talent! Guys that we draft amd actually want to be there. Watson didnt want to be traded here and said we were out of the running. Only changed his mind when he got offered a contract he couldnt turn down. He played in a trash division and in a dome. Never played in cold weather and nobody ever talks about that aspect of the trade. How would he handle playing in the winter on the lake? Hes been terrible sonce coming here with a few above average starts mixed in!
Winston is a gunslinger! Hes gonna throw ints but he wont be afraid to throw down field at least! Ill take it!
I'm one of the fans that never wanted him here. I didn't care if he was the same player or not. I dont believe he didn't do what he was accused of and We already had our Qb in Baker. I cheered for karma when he got hurt
Who they hell were they to think they were better than Baker Mayfield? The guy was surrounded with no talent and a terrible defense his whole time in Cleveland! He had a healthy obj and Landry when they hired the worst HC in NFL history in Freddie kitchens!
Glad you see that of Jedric Wells. Body language is horrible.
DTR looked terrible his first start in Baltimore with a half hour notice and no reps that week. No repa at practice this weeks and thrown into a game when were trailing,again with no practice reps. That being said, Winston needs to be the starter imo. The wrs r trash!
Eric Mangini was a better coach than Stefanski. Same as Kitchens!
I wouldnt go THAT far. Did they make the playoffs twice in the past decade? Not to mention winning 1/2 playoff games. Some of it is on the team, coach yes. Even the QB Watson saga. Honestly this is most on the owner he should of forseen this. All I got to say is his $ and goodluck getting that new stadium Brookpark at this rate.
@tystarnes All I know is the teams were far more disciplined. He did more with less talented players too.
This is the most undisciplined team I've ever seen. A bunch of overgrown soft babies.
@tystarnes The Brookpark thing pisses me off. They're not good enough to earn a new stadium. I hope the city sues Haslam.
I bought a Brissett Jersey the day he was signed. Watson is terrible, I booed him in every game. I cheered his injury. Not for his pain, I cheered it was finally over.
All coaches and gms make mistakes i believe that we shouldn't blow this up...lets see if these people can fix it...but they have to win NOW...and prove they learned from it.GO BROWNS
My question is how do you get rid of watson? We can't cut him because of the cap hit right
Does it really matter if it's DTR or Winston both are not the answer honestly were a ton better off going 2-15 versus 6-11 why you ask yes of course the draft picks right now that's all the matters. Since a 1/3 of the team needs to bexreplaced next season with up to 10 drafts picks being the major oart of the rebuild.
Joey, if Dorsey was brought on to help Watson and now Jameis is the starting QB, why would Kevin give play calling to him. Kevin's scheme worked w flacco and Winston is similar type QB. I don't get this..
You make your points about the fans, not on current reality but a bunch of ifs. Your reasoning is not based on reality and a lot of assumptions. IF he were the player he was in Houston, well #1 he’s not and even if he was, most fans are there to watch football and support other players on the team. They hold their noses and wear bags over their heads when it comes to Deshaun.
Actually the vast majority of the people I know do not consume entertainment or vote for people who are morally reprehensible. If they are aware ( the problem with many people is that they are blissfully ignorant )that a person, a musician, an actor or director, a politician etc. have done terrible things, they have nothing to do with them. After all of the revelations about Hollywood the lack of support for movies is at an all time low.
Hollywood is dying and the music industry is dying. People are disgusted by the entertainment industry. I no longer vote for anyone because they are all criminals, liars and crooks. ALL of them!
Your assumption that 95% of the people would support those people is totally wrong in my experience. What I find funny is that you are now being the person who is acting morally superior by judging other people and by telling us how we should act.🤦♂️🤣
Unlike the unemployed PAID protesters we’ve seen the past few years, the majority of Browns fans have jobs and responsibilities to take care of and don’t have time to drive to the stadium to protest. Isn’t it possible to protest in other ways? Not buying team gear, not going to games they would have otherwise gone to? Etc., etc.
You wanted them to protest right? Booing is protest. Maybe the fans, who by the way, love their team, love their city and love other players on team, were cheering his injury because he was killing the team, embarrassing, shaming and humiliating the city and ruining other players careers. As you say though, unless we are totally saintly in all aspects of our lives, we aren’t allowed to be bothered by Deshaun, right? You are hilarious.
Maybe they were cheering because now, finally, he’d be off the field and they wouldn’t have to see him or deal with any more of his terrible behavior. Now they could go to a game and not feel ashamed for going. You do realize he just paid a woman a million dollars to shut up and not talk to the NFL about a rape.
She filed and a week later it was settled. He knew if she talked to the NFL and the lawyer showed them the compelling video evidence she had, he’d be suspended and the Browns would then be able to void his contract. Yet another black eye for the city of Cleveland and the Browns. Yet another reason to be embarrassed and ashamed.
Since you feel so righteous about telling everybody how they should feel and think, now it’s my turn to tell you. Stop judging other people and only talk about sports. Stick to the games on the field and only talk about that because when you go outside those lines, you come off as an arrogant ass.
Oh and the players need to shut up. When they said nothing about bringing a serial sexual abuser on the team or a guy who just paid off a rape victim. Unbelievable.
They werent cheering him being injured they were cheering him being out of the game so they can see winston.
Yep, I agree 100%
The players have been there for what a couple of years or so. Us fans have been there since what we were 3 lol. Big difference that is why some of the "5%" get so unbelievably mad then you add beer what do you get? People cheering for another human get hurt. I
Why everybody keep overlooking Kevin like he’s not the head coach baffles me. Fans went from Watson to Andrew Berry and Jimmy never Kevin he is the head coach. No other team in the nfl blames there quarterback for all there problems and then when the quarterback out go straight to the GM. 5 years 1 and 6 start no playoff wins ( Mike Phifer won that playoff game as head coach when Kevin was in the basement ) should of been fired not giving up play calling 😂you go from good to terrible when you come here from bad to good when you leave here. Last time I checked Andrew Berry and Jimmy doesn’t coach the team they just bring in talent and last time I check we still a talent team. So why it’s not showing? Who is in charge of this Talent? Yea Kevin Stafanski. So why do y’all keep giving him a pass is crazy to me. Joey me and you been back and forth and you the most honest out of your podcast but Kevin is past due brother.
Been watching since the beginning my guy but the Stefanski take is a bit of a straw man argument. There isnt much of a direct correlation to penalized teams and losing. Yes Stefanski’s have been in the bottom third of the league for his tenure but hes also had two playoff runs among that. It didnt hinder the success then therefore its unfair to use it as an argument against retaining him now. There are arguments to be made, the penalties one isnt one of them. Neither is the “players dont fear him” mentality which is frankly a bit juvenile. I think Stefanski is far from the key problem that needs to be fixed. He is the reigning 2 time CotY and has earned the right to steer the ship out of these waters that I highly doubt he was the person of steering them into it in the first place
I get what you're saying that it isn't completely correlated - but untimely penalties are absolutely correlated to blown scoring opportunities - how may times have they taken false starts from inside the 10 yard line this year?
And regarding the fear statement - I'm over simplifying what I mean - what I'm talking about is the perceieved strength that a coach has - if they know a GM gets final say or DePodesta gets the final say regarding playing time/roster moves it makes him weak i.e. the fear statement
@@optimisticfanclub Ah, I see what you're saying now. Yeah I think those are fair points actually. The timing of the penalties has been back breaking this season. I still tend to lean towards blame of penalties more on players than coaching. I'm good friends with an ex-Browns DT and when I ask him about it he's always of the mindset, "We're grown men getting paid for this. We've been doing this our whole lives. Mental mistakes are on us." That being said, the argument of lack of accountability you make is something I think I underestimated initially. Watching back the game the body language is AWFUL all around the offense, and that can be a reflection on Kevin.
It's just super sad that I felt like this team was finally becoming a respected, well-run organization, only for impulsive ownership to blow that up (based on the information at my disposal). We spent 4 years building an identity and an offense with players that fit a certain mold. But because we have to make the most out of a quarter of a billion dollar investment forced upon us, ownership made the coach replace virtually his entire offensive staff and implement a brand new scheme, mind you after the offense finished the season seemingly clicking on all cylinders. I worry Kevin will never be able to fully operate the offense he envisioned with the QB of his choice here. Instead now he's calling a brand new system with players seemingly not the right fit, and it very well could cost him his job because of choices out of his control (again based on the information I have).
Only us in Cleveland it's pathetic already there press interview same shit every time fire stefanski 🤬🤬🤬
How has Stefanski escaped relatively unscathed. People. Look at his collective record over his tenure. It’s not pretty. NE Ohio is so sorry that mediocrity is accepted.
Lets be honest, the only difference here is some people thought it was good Watson was injured but didnt say it, and the others thought it was good and cheered. Realistically that doesnt make anyone better than anyone else, its just a case of opening your mouth. The 95% figure is survivorship bias to me. Lots of people left the browns fandom without announcing their departure, so you are talking about 95% of whats left of the fandom. Lastly, films and music, just like football, is a team effort. So just as you root for the Browns despite Watson and might be happier with him gone, others might enjoy those things but be happier if it didnt involve reprehensible people. And those people may cheer when the law catches up to those bad people. Watson hasnt been put behind bars so cheering other punishments like an injury is the next best thing to them. The X and Os of this is good but the moral grandstanding is almost unlistenable.
It’s the opposite of moral grandstanding - I’m saying everyone is a hypocrite in one sense or another if analyzed from any one perspective
@@optimisticfanclubOk but what does that add to the conversation? A person can't criticise anything unless they themselves are an "ethical person"? If criticising Watson for his actions off the field is to be a "White Knight" then regardless how you frame it, you are placing your warped morality onto others and making a judgement. Hence the moral grandstanding.
I came to this channel because I wanted to see if Deshaun was actually that bad or people were just dog piling. I wanted the in depth look at the plays rather than relying on stats and you delivered. But if you were truly agnostic about Watson then why would you go into detail about peoples reactions? To me agnostic would be "yeah he was injured, some people booed and cheered but that's up to them. People can feel how they want. I'm agnostic on the whole thing"
@stu8095 I’m not saying you’re white knight for judging watson’s off field activity, I’m saying you’re a white knight if you never said anything and now that you don’t have to deal with him as the starter you’re now being vocal about it. There’s no use in a discussion like this over a comment section - glad you enjoyed parts of it but I obviously didn’t explain what I was trying to say well enough
@@optimisticfanclub I agree that Watson's play on the field should have no bearing on how you view him. I have to say I haven't seen many people in that camp as most were split at the start. The Deshaun die hards wouldn't hear anything bad against him, others never accepted him and the rest seemed beat down and just hoped he could do something. I would think the people cheering and being vocal are the people that never accepted him. The last lot were just relieved. Thank you for taking the time to reply anyway.
C
A INT BLAME WATSON no more!!!
This guy is based. W rizz.
It’s also time to say Jeudy is another terrible move this franchise made bc, WOW he is awful.
First comment 🐶
I spent his forst few yrs hating Stefanski. He won me over last yr! Kev has only had legit QB play one yr and we won a playoff game. And our def was awful that yr! Idk how we judge kev until AB gets him a QB!
Trump 2024!!!
Big fan, love your analysis, but seeing you bite the DTR bait like alot of this fan base is disappointing. DTR is not it and should be traded. Just doesnt have the confidence or intangibles to start in this league. We dont need 7 games to know it.
Confidence is not an issue for him, he has an extremely strong arm and is fast as a skill player - nothing is changing this season, why wouldn’t you want to see what’s there? Also, if he has only played a few games and isn’t good he wouldn’t have any trade value
@@optimisticfanclub well Im just wanting anything for him because he is young and that alone will give you value. And the confidence Im talking about is the confidence to run this offense, I can see he has confidence in his athletic ability. I just believe with more time we will see more of the same. Not much more or less.