Humans: The Costumes of Middle Earth
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- In today’s video, I guide you through the human costumes in Peter Jackson’s trilogy. I talk about Anglo-Saxon history, medieval fashion history and lots of armor! Don’t forget to like, comment and subscribe!
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A small note on Theoden's armor. It is not leather armor, it's full brass plate that has a leather covering for designs, it serves no protective purpose.
Then what the heck is the point of the king wearing non functional armor?
@nathanielwilcox4947 The leather isn't functional, it's ornamental. The solid brass plate underneath it IS functional.
I came here to say this but you beat me to it.
I will say however, the leather is not purely for decorative purposes. The leather covering will help to protect the steel from rust and help keep the armour from getting too cold in the winter times and sapping the heat away from the body.
@@nathanielwilcox4947 I said the leather serves no protective purpose, the armor is still full plate armor that is very protective.
I think its meant to be bronze rather than brass.
As to the costumes of Boromir and Farimir, they both wear more traditional armor in battle just like the rest of the Gondorian army. We can see this in the extended edition of Return Of The King. Boromir wore what he did in Fellowship because he was traveling to Rivendell to seek counsel, not riding into battle. We first see Faramir as captain of the Rangers of Ithilian. His light armor is meant for speed and concealment.
Boromir's gear was traveling gear, not Gear of war.
Faramir does wear the typical Gondorian armour later.
It would, however be worse than impractical in the woods trying to sneak up on Works and Easterlings.
A small correction - plate *is* capable of protecting flexible areas. However, it is very expensive and difficult to make that sort of thing, so it is not seen very often. And you would be very much capable of doing cartwheels and others feats of flexibility in plate armor. It usually weighed less than what modern soldiers carry, and it was tailored to the wearer. Those who wore plate armor were supposed to fight, and fighting requires a good range of movement as well as not being constrained by what you wear.
A properly made suit of plate armor is a magnificent work of art that not only looks good but is very protective and flexible.
Really? Afaik there's no actual way of protecting stuff like the inside of joints. Historically people either wore mail shirst under the armor (earlier) or only specific gaps were covered by mail (later).
@scelonferdi very high end late-period armors (like henry viii's tournament armors) have many fine lames that slide over each other at the joints and even the buttocks in one example. Complete plate coverage. You're quite right that most plate harnesses, including everything 15th century, used mail to cover gaps.
A common misconception with plate mail is that it greatly reduces the wearer’s flexibility. While this would be true for the type of plate the soldiers of Gondor wear, most medieval plate was segmented like King Theodens armor and didn’t restrict mobility much. For context, modern day combat armor that soldiers currently wear is more restrictive than plate mail.
Theoden's armour is leather glued onto bronze/brass plates, rather than boiled leather. It is fantastic work.
Theoden’s armor is so awesome. That man was 100% glory
A note on scale mail. It was actually extremely popular with the nomadic people of the eurasian steppe who fought mainly on horseback. Probably because it offers greater protection from arrows then chainmail does
That’s not scale, but Lamellar, which is small metal plates woven together to with cords, basically sewn together, and didn’t have the gaps like scale, and was typically worn above mail, not in place of it.
What you are saying about lamellar is true but scale was also widely used. You can also find examples of scale and lamellar being used alomg side each other on the same armor set. Usually with lamellar for the chest and scale for the arms and legs. Probably because scale is more flexible and those areas need to be able to bend. Just google scythian scale armor for examples
@@weshoward1195scale was not very common once they started using chainmail. It was overall less protective and harder to make. The Scythians you mention are from before 500ad, they may have used scale mail but if chainmail existed they probably would’ve been using that instead.
@@Moblinn Byzantines and Eastern European nations used scale armour extensively even in later medieval periods, while mail was predominant in the Western European culture.
Thanks for your work. I teach a course that uses visual culture as its framework and I like to reference LOTR as a non-political/safe source when I want to show some examples of visual culture and what we can learn at a simple visual level about different cultures. Lately, my problem has been that references to LOTR have fallen on sad, ignorant ears because most of my students have not seen (let alone read) the movies, something I just can’t wrap my head around thus far. Anyway, thank you.
For the Hobbit trilogy, Weta Workshop was inspired by Eastern European and Meditteranean European cultures for the overall aesthetic of Dale and Esgaroth.
I love Esgaroth and Dale! super unique designs.
correction on scale armor
scale armor also can be made with upward scales, there are examples of this style in persian cataphract
FWIW, pretty much all the vocabulary that Tolkien uses to describe the good guys armour refers to mail. A note on Farimir, they're Rangers, on foot, even mail armour is heavy. Yes, it makes a theatrical statement in the movie, but it's really a practical choice for his mission. Also, historically plate replaced mail because it was more effective, though as you say, there was vestigial mail at certain joints. It also had to do with improvements in smelting and foundry technology that made production of larger steel plates more practical.
I always head cannoned Theodens armour as metal armour with a leather covering as that is a historical thing and would be more effective than any boiled leather on its own.
That's what it is. She's wrong.
I really like the style of armour and dress in Rohan. Calling back to that Anglo-Saxon/Viking heritage of Britain and Europe certainly worked to echo the sentiments Tolkien had about creating a "lost history". I'm always fascinating by the addition of creatures and such into their armour because it evokes the folklore, storytelling and myths of their people.
By comparison the very regimented style of the Gondorian armour always spoke to me of a desperation. Everyone pushed to fight so they have to wear the kit the forges and armouries can make. Having the designs faded into the armour speaks of a loss of recognition in their past and the black and grey has you thinking of mourning. It's very good to show a peoples in decline, or at least on the brink of it falling.
Fascinating video as always and always gets me thinking about Tolkien lore. Totally get you on the strapping on the bracer moment - Aragorn hitting all the feels.
You definitely see the ways that Rohan is embracing and celebrating their culture, especially compared to Gondor, where their cultural identity seems to have fallen to the backburner. I'd love to see if their was a renaissance in Gondorian fashion, art and architecture after Aragorn ascended to the throne!
Thanks so much for taking the time to comment!
@@Jess_of_the_Shire If the Rohirrim are Anglo-Saxons on horseback, then the Gondorians are Byzantine Greeks, heirs of the Roman Empire and of Classical Civilization. We know that the Byzantines organised their military into formal regiments, and that these regiments had uniform colours of plumes and shields. The difference between the Gondorians and the Rohirrim is more to do with civilization and semi-barbarism, than decadence and vigour. As the Gondorians used the Rohirrim as military allies, the Byzantines employed Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Kievan Rus warriors in the famous Varangian Guard - though this did not prevent the Byzantine populace calling them 'The Emperor's wine-bags", due to their heavy-drinking.
@Urselius Urgel from what I have read about Tolkien, he would have had a very positive attitude towards Anglo-Saxons or their equivalents in the Third Age. As for the Varangian Guards, they may have been heavy drinkers, but I don't think anyone despised them as soldiers.
@@sanjivjhangiani3243 Yes, Tolkien was an academic philologist with interests in Old English, Old Norse and other Germanic languages. But, like the rest of his generation, he was schooled in Latin - Latin and Finnish were influences on the creation of Quenya, as Welsh was on Sindarin - so he was also steeped in classicism. The Byzantines admired the martial prowess of the Varangians, but also looked down on them as barbarians and schismatics. What I was trying to emphasise was that the uniformity of equipment of Gondorian soldiery in the films has more to do with Gondor being an ancient and well organised civilisation, efficiently equipping its soldiers for combat as a community reacting to being in a state of constant warfare, than Gondor being 'decadent' or 'deficient in artistic talent'. In contrast, Rohan was a barbarian kingdom in a state of 'heroic culture', where its soldiers were a social caste who equipped themselves, to some extent, to their own whim.
I like the comparison between the Gondorian and eastern Roman civilization. Though, considering Tolkien's vision of the Nordic worldview as the basis for his legendarium I would stand a case that he didn't really see the Rohirrim as semibarbarian, but as other kind of culture, with it's own take on civilization, honor and kingship. Perhaps they strike to me as lombardians, the most latinised of the nordmen(?) and other contender for Gondor as an empire would be the carolingian, more in line with Aragorns portray as a warrior king and legitimal ruler of men.
The problem I had was during the charge of the Rohirrim into battle was they were carrying perfectly good shields on the side of their horses when they should have been holding them up to block arrows- although the excuse I have heard was that many of the riders during filming didn't know how to ride with only one hand holding the reigns when in a true horse riding culture this would have been well practiced much earlier. A shield does absolutely nothing strapped to the side of a horse.
Would've liked to hear more about the rangers of ithilien, I guess you kinda covered that with Faramir, but I feel like everybody forgets about them as a band even though they're very distinct from the other soldiers of Gondor
This is a great point! Honestly, this script/whole video was kind of on a time crunch, so I'll definitely have to circle back to them at some point when I've got a little more time to think about it. Thanks for reminding me!
I had the privilege of seeing the Sutton Hoo pieces on exhibit in the British Museum, and it moved me greatly. I remember writing in my journal about how inadequate and inaccurate the phrase "Dark Ages" seemed after seeing that.
On the Middle Earth Rangers Forum there's a lot of lively discussion of clothing styles for various areas. I've been thinking of developing a persona of a man from Lebennin at the time of the War of the Ring, and in doing so I've been in correspondence with some people about modelling fashions for Gondor's hinterlands on ancient Greek styles. Interesting idea, though I'm not sure if the reasons for Greeks wearing chitons really fits with how Gondor would have designed their clothes. There's more than similarity of climate to consider.
It's interesting to see how particular garments show up in their variations and combinations across time and space: straw hats, mantles and cloaks, tunics ... the more I look at fashion history the more I see how much there is to think about regarding materials, technology, available techniques of tailoring, how economics shapes the clothes of choice (for example, trousers developing in horse cultures: check out the video "The Invention of the Trousers" by Deutsches Archäologisches Institut!), and then I guess the upper layers of aesthetic tastes and how those can lead to flights of fancy like top hats, buttons that don't do anything, or those big boxy coats in central Europe.
In hoping to put together a useful kit for Middle Earth reenactment or bounding, I've tried to keep a narrow focus first on the basics of materials and plausible techniques. Living Anachronism and Iodo Dwarven Ranger are a couple of channels with some relatable reports of DiY efforts; Middle-earth Reenactment Society gets hardcore.
Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a problem with the Rohirrim in the movies not wearing chainmail. I'm generally willing to overlook it because of how beautifully WETA portrayed them in other respects.
Wow! I bet it was incredible to see that exhibit in person!
The world of middle earth reenactment/costumes Is so fascinating to me! It sits right at the intersection of historical dress and fantasy and it's so neat to see what yall do with it.
I wish you the best of luck in your own reenactments! Just remember that accuracy is cool, but the most important thing is what makes you feel happy and immersed. Best of luck!
You’re talking about historical fashion reminded me: about a month ago my wife and I got rid of man shelves worth of books for a charity book sale. My wife emptied two shelves (maybe a shelf and a half) of just fashion books. Mid evil, Edwardian, Georgian, 1920’s 1930’s etc. in grad school she wanted to be a Draper, but turns out she doesn’t like making patterns just making the costumes with some else’s patterns.
It's really amazing how much work is put into a small detail like the distinction between the clothes of Rohan's and Gondor's people. Viewers may not be able to tell someone what the difference is, no one in the story brings attention to it, but it still lets the audience feel how these are two distinct peoples.
I'd really dig hearing what you think about the costumes of the Easterlings, the Haradrim, the Dunlanders, and the men of Bree. Oh! And the men of Dale. And Beorn. Your analysis is detailed and on point and astute and I'm a big fan.
The costumers/armourers/production designers of the Jackson trilogy also had the advantage of not needing to start from nothing: they had more than 30 years of extant artwork by some wonderful painters to draw visual inspiration from, chief amongst whom were John Howe and Alan Lee. They both researched medieval armour & dress to apply to their Tolkien art long before the films were greenlit.
Also, I'm sure Tolkien wouldn't mind if you did end up mispronouncing French words, since he seemed be pretty salty towards all things French! Not sure whether he was still holding a grudge about the Normans defeating his beloved Anglo-Saxons in 1066 and drastically altering the English language, or it was due to his WWI experience, or simply because he hated French food & wine 🙂
This is a great point! Alan Lee and John Howe's art shines through the production design so well. Truly a magnificent lesson in taking a design from canvas and page to screen. Not to mention the years of preproduction! If I'm not mistaken, much of the armor was completely made before filming even began, which is such an incredible feat.
Though I have nothing against France myself, I can definitely relate on the front of not loving French food. There was an incident with shrimp that I will never get over.
Thanks for the comment!
I love Éowyn's dresses, especially the velvet ones. They have amazing detail.
I do wish Denethor wasn't a complete joke in the movies. His costume looks great. His writing and lack of palantir kinda ruins it because we never understand why he went mad. In the book he always came off to me as this dignified, almost Shakespearean character, or maybe an operatic bass. His death scene is metal as hell. And then the movie gives us that hilariously bad marathon running while on fire. I also think they should have cast an older actor, but my mental image is Nakadai Tatsuya (he does madness and tragic characters incredibly well) even if it would be hard to imagine him having two European actors for sons.
I never noticed the thing about the bracers before! So beautiful 😭
Now you can cry too!
Same here! 💠
I didn't think I needed these videos on costuming but I enjoy them thoroughly. They're cozy like a Hobbit Hole
I think the eclectic nature of Rohan armor is more to represent it's almost feudal government style having different wolds ruled by thanes under the headship of the king. One of the biggest being snowborn which referenced in the movie
My brain - “how exactly were humans the costumes of middle earth??”
I am, in fact, an idiot.
The quality of these video essays make me confused.
Why doesn't the Part Time Hobbit have more subscribers?
Oh well, I'm still happy I get to share these costume videos with the folks who will be joining my Middle Earth themed murder mystery party this Christmas.
Oh that's very kind of you! I really appreciate it! But the subscribers will come as they will, I'm plenty happy with the community I've got here right now :)
And that sounds like a stellar party! Such a unique idea!
Would love to see your take on the other Men of Middle-earth, such as the Bree-folk and the Dale-men. (Maybe you have; I haven't looked at all your videos, yet.)
Ooh also the Easterlings, Haradrim, and Corsairs.
10:17 theodrid?!😂😂
Iove your videos ❤❤❤
You didn't mention the blue robe that Aragon wore when he visited Frodo when he woke up after his rescue drop Mordor. I remember thinking, "That's not Sttider the Ranger---that's Aragorn, Prince of Arthedain & Arnor."
I actually never noticed Aragorn took the bracers from Boromir. That's such a great and heartfelt detail and I love it.
One of my favorite bits of Aragorn's costumes is found in the last two. With the color choices of his blue jerkin in the first and the red lining of his cape in both being reminiscent of Boromir's color palate, it's almost like he's carrying his fallen brother to the very last steps of their journey, much like Sam does for Frodo. It contrasts really well with Denethor who, while definitely grieving, allows his grief to overwhelm him to the point where the memory of Boromir is only of the fact that he's dead. Aragorn carries the memory of Boromir's life that, however briefly they shared, he grew to appreciate for what it was and who he was. It's a detail I noticed a few years ago and it makes me boohoo everytime I think about it.
Alright so, normally, when I put on a video such as this I have no problem just listening to it in the background while I work. But in the case of your videos I always end up staying to actively watch. Your writing is gripping and your love for the subject shines through in your expressions so much that I can't help but be hooked and watch. The way you often style your looks to fit the video also slaps. Great job!
10:00 I believe the word you're looking for is "stoic". Love the commentary, Jess!!!
Just as a note on plate armor, at the height of its design plate armor could cover a soldier near head to toe, and in some areas of articulation the armor could actually move more than the wearer is capable of.
I love it when that helmet comes up. Sutton Hoo was my extended family's land. Edith Pretty was my third cousin, I think.
Just found your channel. Great stuff!!
Thanks so much! Welcome to the community!
I skimmed the comments so I know some of these points were touched on, but I thought I'd condense it into one comment and bring up a relatively pedantic point that I didn't see anyone else raise. While scale itself wasn't super common on horsemen, lamellar was. The difference is scales are attached to a backing of leather or canvas, while lamellar scales are woven together with silk or linen cord. Primary examples are the cataphracts from the Byzantine Empire, and the ancient Mongols. The main reason is while heavier than mail, it was easier to repair in the field. And the pedantic point: mail actually refers exclusively to what we call chainmail in modern time; interwoven rings. Because of games like DND and fantasy novels, 'scale mail' and 'plate mail' have become widely used, but the correct terms just scale armor and plate armor.
Those points said, I'm loving your costume discussion videos! You've done a wonderful job of breaking down the inspirations the designers drew from in an easy to understand way.
Theodens armor would be leather over steel or iron. The armory of Edoras had “shirts of cunning mail, the works of Gondor in ages past.” That’s what clad Aragorn and Legolas.
With respect to King Theoden's armor: when designing armor, there is always a trade-off between protection and weight. For a man around 50 years of age, boiled leather would have offered a reasonable amount of shielding while allowing him to keep up with the younger men in their steel armor. Also, the ornamentation would have allowed his warriors to see him on the battlefield, which would be important for morale. Once the king went down, all but the bravest of his soldiers would flee.
I did some research about the weight of armor. I can't imagine wearing that much weight constantly and over 50 ? Even the strongest man will weaken some when he reaches 50 and 60.
Armor is not that heavy most suits of full plate only weight 45-55lbs which is spread over the whole body and is usually narrow at the waist so the hips take some of the weight not just the shoulders. Less than what modern soldiers carry on their backs. Though it would still affect his as a middle-aged man.
Theoden's armor is brass plate with leather ornamentation
"Rad" is putting it lightly, my friend 😁 ... Your videos are fantastic!! Thanks so much for sharing!! ❤
Plate armor definitely can protect elbows, called couters, just not the inside of the elbow unless you have some 16th-century level articulations. In the 15th century, they were covered with maille voiders. You hoke, but people can infact do xartwheels on full suits of plate armor. There are several demostrations on the flexibility of plate armor on youtube.
ive been going through your videos- basically kinda binge watching- and i just wanna say youre really charming, well-spoken, smart and very enjoyable to watch!!! i subscribed and im very excited to see what other tolkien-y things youll bring to my front page, as someone who is elvenkin :)
Oh that's so sweet!! I'm so glad you're enjoying the content, and I welcome you to this little community!
the supplemental material on the Bluray goes into detail about Theoden's metal armor. Also Scale can be built on a chain packing.
Yeaaaahhh I haven’t watched the video yet but I’m so excited >3
Well I hope you enjoy!!
I love the cultural connection that these clothes make, not just with our historic inspiration but also by telling the story within its universe. Thanks for sharing the insight!
It also makes sense that Gondor would have more advanced armor and styles, since Gondor is supposed to be have been favored by the Valar, and possess many gifts and powers not available to ordinary men, including their longer lifespan meaning they would’ve had time to develop their armor, since one craftsman could spend longer advancing the craft instead of craftsman, who would’ve also lost some of their time to learning the craft, likewise, generally they are indicated as having had a good relationship with the elves in Numenorean times, so they would have learned and advanced from that relationship
I think when talking about boromir and faramir you have to talk about their actual battle armor. faramir is a ranger, he needs to blend in, not have a shinny armour. Boromir in the flashblack does have his actual armor, you presented his travel gear, not what he would take into battle.
It would undoubtedly be a shorter piece, given how little we see them up close and how there isn't a huge amount about them in the books, but a look at the Haradrim and Easterlings, as contrasting cultures to the Gondorians and Rohirrim? Maybe even the few bits and pieces we get of Dale in the Hobbit, and how Laketown has traces of it left.
You just blew my mind with that scale mail bit! I never thought of that before.
While ring-mail was easy to maintain, If it became rusted a mail-shirt would be placed in a barrel with sand and rolled around to scour it, and at other times treated with oil, it was expensive in man-hours to produce. The iron wire would have to be pulled through progressively smaller holes until of the correct diameter, then coiled on a mandrel, the coils cut, the ends flattened then pierced and finally each ring was closed by riveting, when linked to four others. All this was done by hand. The Romans made use of 'locked scale', this produced a rather less flexible armour, where the individual scales were wired together, rather than just being attached to a textile backing at their tops. this would overcome the upward thrust problem, and it was used for cavalry armour. Interestingly, other than helmets, Tolkien only mentions metallic plate armour once. Prince Imrahil uses his polished vambrace (tubular plate armour for the forearms) to check that Faramir was still breathing. Elsewhere, the only body armour mentioned is 'mail'. What type of armour worn, depends on the type of fighting envisaged. Faramir and his men were waging a guerrilla campaign in Ithilien, largely reliant on archers, so heavy armour would be inappropriate. In contrast, when Elladan and Elrohir, accompanying Halbarad and the Rangers of the North, meet Aragorn, they are equipped for open battle, not guerrilla warfare, and are described as mounted, with helmets, shields, spears and mail armour.
While good maille is not the easiest to produce, it is certainly not uncommon a quick look through medieval art, and there is tons of ot not just for kings and nobels, but commoners as well.
@@nathanielwilcox4947 Very many people own cars today, but they are still expensive and require considerable time and advanced technology to construct.
@@urseliusurgel4365 yes exactly
Imrahil checks Eowyn's breath, not Faramir's.
@@Laurelin70 You are correct. However, it is still the only reference to plate body armour in the whole book. As I read the book in 1972, I think that my memory is remarkably accurate.
Great video; I really enjoyed your comments at the beginning concerning the balance that the movie makers had to find between an "accurate" representation of the past and the audience expectations concerning their preconceptions of what the past looked like (which, in the case of medievalist fantasy, only becomes blurrier). Our preconceptions shape how we see history and the media we consume do it as well; extreme "accuracy" can alienate the audience, but taking too many licences can distort our vision of history. I believe the choices by the team behind the movies were very good and analyses like yours help bridge the gap between the past and our preconceived notions of it 🙂
Hey! Ik I'm commenting pretty late, since the video has been uploaded a year ago but I would LOVE to see more content about haradrim & easterlings. As a middle easterner myself, I tried to find content about these groups but my findings are pretty sparse 😭
Boiled leather was boiled in glue, which made it strong butt stiff and btw waterproof, quite uncomfortable during a hot day to wear. Plate armor is more convinient to wear in my experience
just came across this today, and found it to be excelent, however there are a few things that I feel need to be pointed out
The issue of Scale maille vrs Chian Maille is a very old one, dating to at least the Roman era. If the Rohirim were mainly fighting against archers or even spears, then Scale would be a better choice because to the thrust all Chain Maille is is a loosley connected series of holes.
Boromir was travelining on a diplomatic mission, as such he would chose the most comfortable option for travel.
Faramir was Captian of the Osgiliath Rangers. Now, while Tolkien doesn't specifically say it, the Osgiliath Rangers seem to act more as scouts than combat forces. In that role, wearing no or minimal armor makes sense, as it would impede your finer movement, but a soft leather coat or jerkin will protect from thorns and brush
Great video!! But most of all, I love your background 🤣 my style completely, I love it ❤️
Love your videos but just wanted to add, Faramirs first outfit is modest because it matches the rangers of ithilien that he was captaining. When he goes to the front lines at osgiliath, he dons a plated armor, similar to the infantry
I love ur videos, but in my history lessons I learned the cataphracts was the most fearsome horse riding soldiers in early middle ages. So I think it is possible to ride horse, wearing scale armor and fight at same time.
A quick note on "boiled" armour, as far as I am aware, it is actually not boiled, but basically baked/dried in an oven for a few hours making it hard.
Although I understand that relating the costumes to familiar motifs and budget restrictions, I would have loved seeing more armor based on actual history. My main gripe with the movies is the Gondorian armor. I would have loves seeing eastern roman and late western roman armor and cloths. Ridged helms with swan feathers, crests of bronze. Bronze scales, chain mail, and laminar plates. Blue and white Tunics and cloaks embroidered with Gondorian motifs. Uniformed guards with painted shields. In the beginning Boromir could have had heavy laminar "breastplate" and a chain hauberk, a white tunic with blue circle and white trees. A ridged helmet with imbedded stones, or a crest of swan feathers. A shield bearing the white tree, a spatha, and a long spear with a flowing banner. Minas trilith could have many mosaics and domes. Anyway, this is impossible with film due to budget, but still...
Excellent information as usual. I enjoy your videos very,very much.
Plate mail is oversold as inflexible. NASA designers for the Apollo suits examined fully encased plate armor and marveled at how much more range of motion was possible than they ever considered for a hard shelled suit.
Nice video. As far as I'm aware, scale armour was more common in antiquity than in the early middle ages (at least in Europe). I think, especially if referring to Anglo-Saxons' and Vikings' cultures, a mail would be a way more proper for Rohirims. But I'm not by any means a specialist in the subject.
It makes sense that Gondor (and to a lesser degree, Rohan) is more advanced than the rest of humanity we see. The Numenorians had access to some of the knowledge of the Elves and longer lives that allowed for greater mastery. That led to a greater gap in technology than would've been the case in our world.
This is reflected in the anachronistic mishmash of human armor and clothing, spanning almost a thousand years.
I really wish gambesons were used more in movies as it would pretty much replace most bad leather armor. They were made of cloth so there's an absolutely massive opportunity for customization in style and decoration, and they're perfect for ranger types who need to move in silence and can't risk having a rustling chain mail shirt ruining their ambush. It would also look a lot less silly for a character to cut their way through enemies if they wore cloth armor than it does when they're wearing chain or plate. The LoTR movies are guilty of that particular sin too, and it's made worse when Legolas points out gaps in the Uruk-Hai armor as if it mattered at all.
Unfortunately armor in most media is kind of useless apart from looks, and when tough looking metal doesn't deflect or withstand any blow but instead gets skewered or even sliced through by any blade or arrow that hits it, a puffy jacket would seem like an immensely stupid choice for protection.
I've seen gambesons, or something that looks kinda similar, used in media before but almost always on throwaway troops. All the important characters wear more protective looking armor, without helmets of course.
Games like The Witcher and Kingdom Come Deliverance include them though so that's very cool. They're easier to include in games without looking too silly to people who aren't already aware of what they are since it's all just numbers anyway. In KCD they even let you layer pieces like people did in real life, and helmets with face covering obstruct your vision in the areas they cover.
I don't think it'd be hard to introduce gambesons to movies, just have a character say like "That's a gambeson, an arming shirt. If we had the luxury of time and money we'd wear it under chain or plate mail but it does offer protection on its own."
The hard part would be treating armor like actual protective gear instead of decorative butter when writing and filming, but damn it would be so awesome if they did that extra bit of work
Idk what you're talking about, *we do* know what medieval people wore.
What we don't know is fashion trends for the time and how quickly they transitioned from one to the next, for instance look at our clothing from the 80s to now.
Personally I would've prefered if they stayed in the late iron age for human costumes and armor technologically. Elves and Dwarves are whatever and due to messaging the villains obviously need to be a bit "futuristic" from the larger world's perspective.
Theodens armour is metal armour covered with leather decoration and it is a single piece breastplate with a leather backpiece
Very rad videos my dude
I never thought Theoden’s armor was leather. It appeared to be plate, just with either a leather exterior or painted. Beats me…
Because it isn't leather, it is bronze or brass cuirass, decorated with leather.
Mail is more expensive to produce than scale. Each link has to be riveted, forge welding spreads the heat too much, and it would become an inflexible mass. You're right though, it's much more effective than scale. Scale, and leather armour like Theoden's were primarily ceremonial by the middle ages. For effectiveness, lamellar worn over mail like the 6th century Swedes or later Varangians would have been a better choice for Theoden, in terms of history, and protection. Wouldn't have had the same theatrical impact though, so I understand the movie choices, and there may have been some ignorance involved.
I discovered ur channel this week just as I happened to be reading the silmarillion for the first time. im really enjoying the videos, keep it up!
Fun fact, historical reinactors made a copy of the Sutton Hoo helm and found that foil around only one eye made that single eye glow in firelight, implying that it may have had religious significance in the worship of Wodin, aka Odinn, Gandalf's inspiration. Just thought that was neat.
Yeah, im firnly in binge mode for this channel
BTW, I love your videos! ;-)
It's my day off and I'm happy to say I'm binging your channel 😊
Thanks so much for watching! In my opinion, that's a great way to spend a day off ;)
Wasn't Theoden's armor steel or brass plate with leather and soft metal ornamental inlays on top? Not *just* leather?
I find it mildly amusing to think that Aragorn maintained about the same level of stubble over a quest that lasted a few months, and, after the battle of the Pellenor Fields, decided that it was time to grow a proper beard.
Hi! Just found your channel, and being a Tolkien nerd I really enjoy your content (I am working my way through your video catalog at the moment).
I had a few comments, since you asked for them 🙂
I am sure you in fact know this, but it wasn't really made clear in the video, that Faramir as we first see him is in his Ithilien ranger outfit, just like his men, so it's not so much specifically HIS outfit as the general Gondorian Ranger wear, and it's not so much him reinterpreting his heritage as it is simply the standard equipment for his mission in Ithilien.
Later, we see him don full armor as he is leading the catastrophic charge to retake Osgiliath, so it seems he is just wearing what's most appropriate for him for each mission respectively.
Finally, I am just curious (and I apologize for bringing this up, because I feel a bit rude giving critique when I haven't followed you for that long): in your videos, I notice you constantly change the frame, moving it in and out.
Is this a calculated thing on your part? For me, sadly, it becomes very distracting and makes it more difficult to watch the videos, which is a shame because I really like your content and approach to it. I am all for the occasional frame change to make a specific point, but when it's done so much as here, it just becomes sort of messy)
Anyways, greatly appreciate your channel, hope you keep up the good work, thanks!
From the books, the style of arms and armour should probably be of the Norman era, like what is shown on the Bayeux-tapestry.
Scale armour are not so easy to pierce by an upward stroke, as can be believed, if it properly made. Then the scales are wired together with their neighbours to form strips which is then connected to the fabric backing. The armour will be stiffer than mail, and somewhat more effective against blunt impact. There also was a Roman type of scale armour where the scales got wired together with the row above, making it quite stiff.
The Gondorian plate-armour is more in the style of 16th-century munition-plate, handed out to pike-men and some cavalry-men. Ok, but not of the quality and complexity of personally tailored late medieval knightly armour.
Peter Jackson was lucky in getting John Howe on the team, as Howe has worn armour, even if I can't recall if he owns a set. That is probably a reason for LOTR-armour being better than most Hollywood-stuff.
Great notes on scale mail! That's super neat. Maybe the designers were a little bit ahead of me, lol
And they definitely sold the Gondorian armor. It looks effective and isn't cheap or costume-y, but you can definitely feel that there's less personal care in it. Great storytelling through visuals!
I had no idea that John Howe was such an armor buff! It definitely makes sense considering his art. The trilogy also had the advantage of one big filming block for all 3 movies and incredibly extensive pre-production. These days, things are so rushed that we rarely see the kind of time and attention that they were able to do in PJ's trilogy.
I'd say it's easier to care for scale armour than mail. You can clean the scales easily, mail.... not so much.
In Architecture, we like to say that you need to know the rules first, so that you know how to break them properly.
In Rohan there is a difference between the armor of the court guards and the armor of the average soldier.
Not sure i agree with Boromir as he does wear plate like anyone else when fighting to protect Gondor. He (imo) put on something lighter to travel in. Nobody is going to trek through middle earth in full plate because they might run into some orcs here and there. If only he brought his damned shield when fighting the Uruk..
I love your desk/shelf setup! May I ask where you got it?
Unfortunately it was a hand-me-down from my sister, but it may have been from target a decade or so ago? However if you look up a desk with a hutch, you may find something similar. Hope that helps a little!
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Thanks!
Boromir and Faramir are Gondorian special forces. They don’t need uniforms. They are elite.
the Chemise worn is very typical every age from 600AD to high Middle Ages and beyond. It was usually made of white linen and quite simple in design. I think it was to add an extra layer of warmth and be a layer between outer and inner clothing. Women wore the chemise like a slip, or even a nightgown. It could be anything from knee length to floor length (time period/culture) In the Renaissance the chemise would be seen and even embroidered. I am pretty sure they were a staple of women's clothing into the 1600s... I think our Tee Shirts are the direct descendant of the chemise and undershirts, but that is my opinion not a documented fact. There are several creators on You tube who show how to sew a chemise. Prior Attire is a good source of information.
So Aragorn is acknowledge as a ranger for not wearing armor, but that detail gets skipped on Faramir... no chance to show his quality
Loved the video!
About Théoden's armour, it looks not only richer and different from the rest of his army, but also older in a sense, as if he was wearing the armour of his father, passed down by his own father, and so on back to the first king of Rohan. At least that's what the visual difference makes me think.
Éowyns gowns are also in my Dream Cosplays list; they are so efficiently simple yet regal. I think, and that's just my own interpretation, that the costuem designer drew inspiration from the preraphaelite paintings for her green velvet gown. It still has this old-timey, distinctly medieval shape and feel but more symbolic. I have in mind a late 1800's painting, Ellen Terry as Lady Macbeth by John Singer Sargent, that is very reminiscent of the green gown: dramatic, heavy, regal and strongly associated with tragedy. (here's the link to the painting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Terry_as_Lady_Macbeth )
Regarding gondorian women's their clothes seems to draw inspiration not only from late Middle Age/early Renaissance but also Byzantine fashion, especially the common women with their very modest, almost shapeless gowns and often covered hair.
As for Boromir wearing chainmail rather than plate armour, it's certainly for practical reasons; it's much easier and lighter to wear during a long journey while still offering enough protection against the occasional highwayman or feral beast (not orcs unfortunately). Faramir too, evolves most of the time in an enviromnment where he needs to be light and silent and have great mobility, as he's a ranger, so leather armour makes much more sense and is easier to maintain for him and his men rather than the plate armour he wears for his charge on Osgiliath later in the story.
Also, there are demos of arrows going through well-made maille, so that checks out. It dlows the arrows down, but they still penetrate.
You rock.
I would prefer the gondorian dressed as the byzantines, as successor of ancient and powerful empire.
Don't worry, the "fancy french name" is just the words: Boiled Leather.
Cuir bouilli is pronounced "Cue-eer Boo-yee".
Also "cuir bouilli" is just "boiled leather" in french and means exactly the same thing without any additionnal cultural significance nor attempt at being fancy. You are not required to say it in french, but it never fails to entertain us when you try.
Love the video as a fashion historian, really coherent, and well researched. It’s interesting to hear you talk about the costumes in a wider context (SE&P) of these fantasy settings. + as a huge nerd I love listening to other nerds be nerdy about the same things I like.
The only thing I would say is from my understanding the term ‘Dark Age’ to refer to Early medieval history. Is an anglo centric term. In that nearly all the anglo-Saxon culture was purged by the Norman conquest. So between the romans leaving Britton and the 11th century. We are in the dark on the culture and society of that period. However as you say with fairly recent archaeological discoveries, we have a much greater understanding of the period in English history, so the term Dark age is less relevant, but still applicable. However referring to mainland Europe as in a dark age during the same 600~ years would be inappropriate
Thanks so much for watching! And that's a great point, it definitely lends a little more context, and I'll keep it in mind for future videos. Thanks for sharing!
I love your channel and enjoy it. As an amateur armorer who has specialized in mail for over 40 years, with all due respect, you are way, way off in your discussion of armor. Mail is much more time intensive than scale. And mail refers specifically to what folks nowadays call chainmail. There is no such thing as scale mail. I could go on. And on. And on some more. For hours, if not days. Please just do further research if you plan on doing future videos about armor in Middle Earth.
Again, I've got mad respect for your work generally. If you would like more information, I'll happily elaborate further.
It's refreshing to see master Tolkien work and the great movies of Peter Jackson beeing the frame of reference rather than that travesty from amazon.
The french pronunciation is, and I kid you not: QUEER BOYEE.
It's hard to make nice costumes if you don't like the material you are working on. TLOTR movie team was passionate about their job and the world of Tolkien. Now a day, they hate the source materials but they want to profit from them.
You should of talked to Shad at Shadiversity. The man practically lives and breathes armor lol, as well as medieval weapons.
no, she shouldn't. He's surface level at best.